FFVII Mafia: Over

[iLord]

OOEGY BOOGEY!

Someone didn't read the rules...

Vote Xtoxm

[iLord]

forbiddanlight, less mod-voting, more xtoxm voting!

[iLord]

Sorry, I have a meta to uphold

Ah, I was not aware.

Carry on then.

[iLord]

I don't like how xtomx is being serious about this - the arguments in the pregame were very obviously joking, with stuff like the scum should point out that their scum.

I like my vote.

[iLord]

Unvote Vote iLord

He's really trying to get me lynched.

At this point, I'm thinking you're scum.

One does not just try and suggest a MC on Day 1 without reason, and one does not try to justify illogical ideas with jokes in the pregame thread.

Unless you provide further reasons, a MC will harm the town a lot more than it would help.

[iLord]

iLord, if you could have Xtoxm lynched right now, would you?

No.

I would have a few more votes on him if I could - I feel like he could use some more pressue and that he has a decent chance of being scum.

[iLord]

asdfasdf

^^

If town does feel it necessary to lynch me, watch out for opportunistic votes onto my wagon like that one in future days.

Glad to see this is going to be your method of defense.

1) I feel that the suggestion for a massclaim is a null tell at the moment, as while simply defending a suggestion based on pre-game conversation will not hold much weight, the fact that you brought it up before we even got our roles makes me feel that the suggestion is not necessarily indicative of alignment, as xtoxm was neither town nor scum at this point. And so, while I do not feel that massclaiming this early would provide any benefit, I don't think a case that xtoxm is scum because he wanted the massclaim is all that strong either. To me the suggestion seems to simply be an enthusiastic player jumping into the game.

He brought it out before we got our roles as a relative joke. Only scum would continue to push this idea in the actual game, while trying to use the pregame as evidence of "this is not indictive of my alignment."

I do believe that xtoxm knows better - he's not an enthusiastic newb - he can weight the benefits (barely any) and pitfalls (BIG pitfalls).

In my opinion, the only result of massclaiming at this point I feel would be intense character-role speculation, which is something I would rather avoid as it inevitably detracts from actually scum hunting due to the fact that players get caught up in following theories absent of evidence. This will only benefit scum, as the town will keep going round in circles.

Don't forget the pitfall - the scum can cherrypick of players with powerful role names (The Mod said that this game was going to remain true to the game so it would make sense for main characters to be more important than the minor characters.)

I still don't like xtoxm - conceding his point does little - attempting to push this, using the pregame talk as a saftely net is extremely scummy.

[iLord]

Classic move. Buddy up to 1 attacker, OMGUS the other.

This.

xtoxm, want to explain why I'm genuine and Armlx isn't?

[iLord]

Armlx's argument makes perfect sense. If you do not believe so - point out why.

However, your reasoning does not - that's pretty obviously making this up on the spot.

[iLord]

Classic obvscum.

We should lynch armlx today.

Glad to see you've got your lynch target already, on page 3, without even a claim.

So scummy.

[iLord]

Well, like i've said, his attack on me does not look at all genuine, and it just looks like he's after a mislynch for me because i've made one little mistake, his play is not at all pro-town.

"does not look at all genuine" is continuing to be vague - explain what part of his posts have not been genuine - he brings up vaild points in my eyes.

"just looks like he's after a mislynch for me because i've made one little mistake" - this line is correct except for the "mis" part - you've made a mistake, and he's caught you for it. What's the problem?

Also note the repeated use of the word "look." Is it or is it not genuine? "Looking" is not good enough - it allows you a backup for if Armlx is proven to be genuine, does not make your opinions solid, and helps you avoid conflicts, something that townies most undoubtedly do not need to worry about.

His attack has been infinitely more valid than your weak OMGUS on him.

"his play is not at all pro-town"

Why? You acted scummy - he's calling you out for it.

[iLord]

Well i'm only a vanilla townie so go ahead and lynch me, i'm not important.

But armlx is probably scum.

I won't vote myself, i'm going to make scum vote me.

I can't complain here - I wanted this claim to happen sooner or later, and I prefered sooner.

But the fact that you decided to claim vanilla, and not your flavor speaks volumes against you.

And this defeatist attitude is a not helping your situation - you can start by answering the questions I posed a few posts ago.

[iLord]

No, I just called you out on the "I've never even seen before" nonsense. You have seen it.

Wow...

Xtoxm, I don't think you could be even more screwed.

[iLord]

Uh, well, no I haven't.

I'm a townie, i've no reason to lie about it.

You've dug your hole Armlx, stop trying to get out of it.

Lynch me today, get Armlx tomorrow.

Even if you're town, that's horrible logic.

Armlx just proved that you have seen it - stop blatantly lying in the face of evidence.

Armlx has not dug any hole, and hence is not trying to get out of it.

Answer my questions!

[iLord]

And you can stop trying to boss me around.

Answer your own questions if it means so much to you.

What you call "bossing around" most people call "scumhunting."

What benefit comes from refusing to explain your reasoning?

[iLord]

I don't think my role could be any less scum.

Town*

Seriously, that was an accident. I'm not scum. Lol.

Convinient "accident."

Oh, and in case you forgot, you claimed vanilla.

[iLord]

All armlx did was link to a game.

I am me, and hence no that what he speaks is a lie. What more evidence do you need?

It was a game that you were in!

[iLord]

Yeh, thnx, I often forget that kind of stuff.

You just said that your role couldn't be less town.

Vanilla is not exactly the least townie role.

[iLord]

Yes, I was in the game.

How does that have any relation to what he said?

It doesn't. He didn't even link to the exact post where he said it.

I assure you, I have not seen it before.

Why would I lie about that??

"He didn't even link to the exact post where he said it."

What does this line mean?

It means he did say it.

It means that you know that he said it.

And it means that you are saying that you didn't know.

Which means you're lying.

Why are you lying?

Because you're scum!

I meant my alignment, not my role.

You're

alignment

couldn't be less town?

[iLord]

I still see scum.

I suggest that you stop attacking Armlx for no reason and full-claim, since you've claimed to have an anti-town alignment.

[iLord]

Xtoxm, I'm going to stop trying to explain how obvious it is that you are lying.

Please, just admit that you're scum and make it easy on all of us so that we don't have to suffer through this nonesense.

Or, if you drop your defeatist attitude, give explain your actions and give us a rolename.

[iLord]

FOS: cd and Zakeri for fearmongering

I do believe that Jesters are extremely looked down upon on forum play, and a jester that could win by getting lynched Day 1 is just pointless, cheap, confusing, and unfun.

By suggesting such, you're putting doubt on Xtoxm's lynch because of the possibility of a Jester, which is very scummy.

[iLord]

This is epic lulz.

BTW, to elaborate on xtoxm's dumb lie in PYP3, he claimed he wasn't posting in game b/c he was on LA. Profile -> See all posts by -> He's been posting like 15-20 times a day since he last posted......

Okay, thanks for telling us.

I reapeat my earlier statement that Xtoxm is pretty much as screwed as you can be on in a daystart Day 1 by post 132.

[iLord]

Just to confirm, this is a complete and utter lie.

It it bullshit pulled out of the air, it is a coincidence that I happend to be scum in that game.

I had my A-Level exams at that time, and players from others game would be able to confirm I was also V/LA in games as town.

Convinient that you decide to attack this point as untrue, the one that cannot be proven anymore. And I'm inclined to trust Armlx far more than I trust you.

Still not following my instructions, I see.

[iLord]

I did hear somewhere that people who bring up the possibility of Jester are almost always scum, especially from newer players.

From newer players?

I'm under the impression that it is scummy for players with some more experience that understand how stupid the Jester role is, and its rarity.

[iLord]

I'm not lying.

God, your making it so hard for us to play rationally!

[iLord]

Jester is not a real role. People who know better who bring it up are scummy.

My thoughts exactly.

[iLord]

FOS: MBPikamon

For not voting Xtomx and not providing accurate reasoning why other than spoon-feeding Xtoxm's claim.

"Mostly just watching" is not good enough. Now is a time of action, and more votes need to be Xtoxm, as he is proving to be most irrational and unccoperative.

[iLord]

Xtoxm - you're not exactly one to be talking to the town about sense.

I haven't seen less logical play.

[iLord]

I'm afraid I don't believe Xtoxm as all, as he appears to have lied multiple other times in thread.

That, plust the daycop claim is crap.

You do not use a daycop in the beginning of the day.

Not to mention the ridiculous rarity of the role.

[iLord]

I second GW's question.

At least Xtoxm is being rational now.

Doesn't help his situation much in my eyes, though.

It's just too unreal and unlikely.

Not to mention it makes no sense to put yourself out there and push for a massclaim on Day 1 if you are a power role.

And you story about claiming vanilla is weak.

[iLord]

I can't bring myself to believe that Xtoxm could be town.

And that's why I still wan't Xtoxm lynched.

Since Xtoxm has claimed scum on Armlx, there's two ways we could resolve this.

If we believe Xtoxm, we lynch Armlx. If Armlx turns up town, then Xtoxm is dead.

If we don't believe Xtoxm, we lynch Xtoxm. If he turns up cop, then Armlx is dead.

It really doesn't matter each way, as if Xtoxm is lying, we'll know from either player dying.

And I would rather have Xtoxm be that dying player, rather than Armlx, who has been a perfect angel compared to Xtoxm.

[iLord]

I'd weigh Armlx's life more than Xtoxm's chance of being a daycop.

[iLord]

That's why I said the above:

I would rather risk losing the (extremely unlikely that Xtoxm has) unlikely daycop rather than a very likely townie Armlx.

Xtoxm actually being the daycop would not be much good - he would be dead tommorrow if we are right anyway. (The mafia would NK him)

[iLord]

If you had just claimed Daycop with guilty on scum the first thing on Day 1, I would vote for the scum.

But based on your play, I would risk losing a possible daycop because I just don't believe that you could be a daycop.

[iLord]

You still haven't answered questions about the flavor of your role, or why decided to stick your neck out in the early game by asking for a MC if you're a power role.

[iLord]

The point about protective roles is something I missed - you would very likely survive the night if Armlx ends up scum.

Maybe I'm being a little bias here based on your play.

I need to ponder this.

[iLord]

WHY would I do that? Out myself as a powerful role right at the start of Day One.

I do not consider that good play.

Are you saying, if you were a cop, and you found a guilty, you'd out yourself right away, rather than just trying to get that person lynched first?

My point was not that.

I'm just saying that if your play wasn't so inconsisent with you being a daycop, I'd vote for Armlx.

[iLord]

How is my play inconsistent?

If you have any particular problems, feel free to point them out and I shall attempt to explain why i've done what.

- Sticking your head out in the beginning.
- Illogical false claim
- Lies about how your claim works
- Refusual to claim role name.

[iLord]

Yes, I am. But being a powerful role, I need to stay hidden, if possible, and hence look town. On that end, i've done a pretty crap job.

Wolf is the voice of reason here.

I think we can be pretty sure he's town.

Well of course he is - any one that's advocating not lynching you must be! [/sarcasm]

Explain the points I pointed out, and god sakes, claim your flavor already.

[iLord]

Okay, thanks Xtoxm.

Here's the points:

- Sticking your head out in the beginning.
- Illogical false claim
- Lies about how your claim works
- Refusual to claim role name.

FL's hit my feelings on the dot. I don't like this, and I'm still confident that Xtoxm is scum, but

Unvote, Vote Armlx

seems to be the correct play here.

Somehow we went from lynching Xtoxm to lynching Armlx.

I don't like it at all.

[iLord]

Ah, I wish I played on this site more.

I have little idea on how ABR usually plays.

From my point of view, we have three connections:

Xtoxm + Armlx cannot both be town.
Xtoxm + ABR can possibly both be town.
Armlx + ABR have no such link.

This is assuming that ABR would not lie as town.

In fact, ABR, if you are lying as town, please admit that right now and save all of us a lot of confusion.

I have some more stuff I would like to say, but I would like to wait until after CwaT's questions are answered - his thought processes remarkably mirror my own.

[iLord]

ABR needs to answer CwaT's questions.

[iLord]

Can't talk much today. I'm pretty busy, and I"ll catch up tommorrow.

[iLord]

Catching up today.

I was busy yesterday.

Don't worry !

[iLord]

asdfasdfasdf

This is a bad assumption.

It was for the purpose of argument.

@Zac: ???

A queer response...

---------------------------------------------------------

I still need ABR to answer before I give my thoughts - I don't want to give him any ideas.

[iLord]

I actually think Bugenhagen could be his real rolename (randomly hitting German Philosopher would be an insane coincidence otherwise).

[iLord]

Guys, Xtoxm may not be scum.

Think about it - ABR has claimed an almost identical role to Xtoxm's, except that it finds a different type of player. These two roles are not mutually exclusive and it seems very likely that both roles could be in the game. I'm thinking that Shinra is a scum group, and that Team Jenova is another scum group, and that ABR and Xtoxm are cops for those groups respectively.

However, if ABR were proven to be lying, then I'd go back to thinking Xtoxm is lying. A daycop is more important than a random townie, however, and after some consideration, I'd rather risk lynching Armlx than Xtoxm.

I'm just banking on the fact that ABR isn't lying. If ABR is telling the truth, Xtoxm is almost confirmed in my eyes.

------------------------------------------

I just read the last page - Cavebear hit the nail on the spot.

[iLord]

I've been gone for a bit - catching up.