TENET - Game Over

[Bell]

I have no idea.
I would recommend going back and see who Spiffeh interated with awkwardly because he's not great at interacting with his scum partners.

[Bell]

Hard no to Purple rooming gyphx.
Saying he'll post better ina PT instead of here is just sad.
And doesn't really seem to be the case, I know he can post all right as town.
What he's posting here isn't really that.

[Bell]

I think Spiffeh's post are just generic town and I genuinely believe that he's probably better at town play than he's played this game.
You could call it BOP but his posts always felt uninspired and I'm pretty sure that means he's scum.

[Bell]

Okay, back to my plague infested house. ttyl.
Don't listen to Dunnstral.
Don't listen to Dandelion.

kthxbai.

[Bell]

The only reason is that if they're still saying I'm scum after all this time, they're just hopeless this game.
They're not worth listening to.

[Bell]

The wagon on Petapan is absolute garbage btw.

[Bell]

I strongly advise you flip Spiffeh and then start pressuring everybody voting Peta.

[Bell]

@Spiffeh, your play here is as uninspired as it was in the flavor game. With the game generic statements and questions.

Show me a good read or a good post you've made this game. That actually changed something.

[Bell]

This is also coming from the dude who literally voted me after I said the same thing when I warned you that you better not have been scum reading me.
I'm playing totally different here than I was in my other game and you still voted me for what amounted to an omgus excuse.

You have cut close to the same play and you arguing you aren't is basically a flat out lie.
It doesn't even sound like you did much in the violet room.

[Bell]

Point being is that Spiffeh should die.
Unlike me his play is generically safe, boring and free of real thought or imagination.

[Bell]

See: Entire Titus interaction.

[Bell]

If he's town this game he's not paragone of towniness.
This just wasn't his game, this game.
Which is fine, I guess.
But to argue you're townie here is laughable.
Petapan is literally the most obvious town on the other side and you're voting him.

[Bell]

I barely see a difference between this game and the other games I've played with you.
That probably means you're scum.

[Bell]

To put it simply, free flow interactions and he's pushed almost literally everybody. I don't see favoritism in his reads or his interactions.
I think he writes out reads like he believes them in his own way. He also literally did not need to start busting out a reads list at the end of the last day phase.
He seems to catch the stuff I catch. Or sees the things I do. I don't ever think is reactions to any particular topic don't make sense.
To me he's compltely believable as town, but I find it difficult to see any scum agenda whatsoever.

[Bell]

The paranoia on me pushing you as a coordinated front with Peta to egg your wagon on is not only totally ridiculous but thoughtless too.

[Bell]

You know as well as I do that it takes two scum to interact with each ther and I've interacted with Petapan more than most on that other side where as scum I would totally ignore him, maybe slap a lazy town read and call it a day.

I also had you as scum two days ago in my notes but bed bug infestation kept me away and my confidence on it only grew.

[Bell]

#7402: What are you talking about LLD?

[Bell]

Uhh, this might be an ideology thing, but I try very hard not to think about how bad people's reads are and a lot more about whether their reads make sense to them or not.

[Bell]

Oh, I don't on LLD I think she's slightly scummy this game but I've basically ignored her posts entirely

[Bell]

Let me reword that in a bit.
I mean essentially that I haven't looked at her in the depth I feel I would need to, to read her if at all.
I've only ever played with town LLD.

[Bell]

Hp why is the tracker claim more likely scum than the watcher claim?
Or said differently why A50 over skitter?

[Bell]

The petapan/Spiffeh both being scum is weird.
LLD, why not just unvote them both and then see where the scum team decides to go.
And then vote that guy
or something.

[Bell]

holy crap LLD thinks I'm scum?

[Bell]

I'm town and haven't embellished my claim of full doc. so you should take that under advisement when you read Skitter stuff.

It's trash tier role spec, but a tracker with a bunch of protectives makes more sense than a watcher and a bunch of protectives.

Or at least, they're probably not both town, but that goes without saying really.

[Bell]

Also skitter's unvote of Spiffeh made me cringe 9 different ways.

[Bell]

Who other than Gyphx wants to go into the violet room?
We can get that out of the way at least while we figure out everything else.

I'm against Gyphx because his reason for wanting to go into a PT so he can post better makes no sense.

Dunnstrall already has a neighborhood.

[Bell]

Could we not put two players who are inches away from losing this game for town me into a room together.

[Bell]

LLD scum reading me sucks.
I have 800 posts now.
I'm not that fucking hard to read.

[Bell]

I'm town and I think Peta is town.
and if both groups miss we lose right?

[Bell]

Tell it to me straight Annie, am I just being buddied into submission by you.
Do you even do buddying as scum?

[Bell]

Eh

I don’t really go out of my way for it? Although I guess? My only non-newbie scumgsme since I’ve been back I died d2 after almost dying d1. So meh. Alisae said I pocketed them when I wasn’t really doing anything to pocket them

Link please.

[Bell]

Did you mean to link to this game HP.

[Bell]

Sigh

[Bell]

I wish we could agree on a single read this game besides that I'm town.

[Bell]

Well, we did actually Agree on Shellyc at the end(opps) and titus town (also, opps).

[Bell]

#7515 Sarcasm alert. But a whole league less certain on LLD scum then Spiff-spiff scum.

[Bell]

Goddamn how is gyx outside of any scum range on this planet earth.
Does he just claim scum every time he's scum?
Because he's not playing like town here either.

[Bell]

1. Thanks.
2. That's really not you this game.

[Bell]

Hp has tried too hard, so I'm just town binning them and hoping this is bad.
Annie goes into the townbin, even though I agree that the titus voted sucked.
Dunstral already mentioned.

I wanna sort the other 3 in this game now.

[Bell]

he thought the IC could have plausibly had the macho modifier

he also thought I was your fruit vend in XIV ftr

he tends to have... unexpected... mech takes as town, and that specific post felt very much in line with his XIV thought processes

I haven't played with him as scum but he feels pretty consistent with his townrange here, maybe that would be more accurate

This really isn't enough for me.
He has a lot of bad posts and I know just from the one other game I've played with him that he can play significantly better and smarter than this.

[Bell]

It is extremely weird that they're misreading both of us Annie, I'll give you that.
I can imagine Cabd misreading me.
I really can't imagine FF being anything more than a waffle.

[Bell]

They are both misreading you right?
I mean not in the ahah, what if they're actually reading you correctly! snipe.
I mean they literally both said you're scum?

[Bell]

@FF, I was literally asking him if that was the case. /:
I am not intentionally sowing divisions I am literally wondering if you both could have reads so bad that you thought both of us were scum when neither of us probably are.

[Bell]

VOTE: Brian Skies

[Bell]

Because he's probably lying scum.

Probably?

[Bell]

Because he's probably lying scum.

Probably?

Cool are you going to identify where I lied given I haven't lied this game or
are you just like playing this badly on purpose.

[Bell]

I'm against Gyphx because his reason for wanting to go into a PT so he can post better makes no sense.

I don't really understand what your issue is here unless you just think his master plan is to go in there and fake-solve with a buddy.

Which, again, doesn't really make a lot of sense.

Unless you think the purple room is totally useless it makes a lot of sense not to put the guy who promises to play better nce he gets into a PT and someone who actually has a reason to go into one.

[Bell]

Unless you think the purple room is totally useless it makes a lot of sense not to put the guy who promises to play better nce he gets into a PT and someone who actually has a reason to go into one.

The turnstile from the Purple Room was already used.

I honestly couldn't care less if he went in there or not.

You're both voting and poking at me for this.
So I doubt you actually don't care.
If you don't care you're basically wasting air and this conversation goes nowhere, what was even the point of bringing this up at all.

[Bell]

What are you trying to say with 6186?

[Bell]

Cool. The sooner I get eliminated the sooner I can stop giving a fuck about this game.

Maybe try not giving a fuck if you're town.
You're basically losing the game at this point by saying I'm scum anyway.

[Bell]

his push on titus was probably reasonable

Maybe I should just come up with a bunch of lies or false events and revise history to hardpush you here and see how you feel after.

I think that sounds like a great idea.

I should probably be scum reading you harder than I've been because you keep going toward the fairness doctrine.
Like that means something.

[Bell]

Didin't I say that forever ago.

I did say that forever ago.

[Bell]

Brian 6195: is an extremely strange post.

[Bell]

Sorry, I'm town this game so by definition my vote on you is town motivated.

[Bell]

You're so steeped in the semantic argument that I have difficulty believing you're not just side stepping your play all together by saying people argue bad and if they argue bad they deserve what they get.

[Bell]

You just accused me of being lying scum without even pointing to a lie I could have made.

The reason that post was strange is because it was meandering and had no point or belief in place. It was a rush job that felt more like you were filling space then thinking about it.

I love calling myself town when I'm town by the way. Which is relatively evident by this game and a lot of other games. I usually call myself town when I'm town and I actually tone down how much I say I'm town when I'm not.
Except when I get into a loop and can't solve. But obviously, I'm not doing nothing so that goes out the window too.

[Bell]

by saying people argue bad and if they argue bad they deserve what they get.

Yes, if they play bad and they get eliminated, then they deserved it. Do you disagree?

Yes. If you're town and they're town and you eliminate them, it's your fault because you voted town.

[Bell]

I assume that you didn't get into playing mafia because you were terribly interested in punishing people who play in ways you don't like, while rewarding those that do.
You taking this tack, is not so uncommon that I don't see town use it.

Funnily enough, if Spiffeh is also scum with you, you both used fairness a lot to win arguments and get town read.

[Bell]

Yes.

[Bell]

If it wasn't why would I have apologized for misreading her.

[Bell]

No, I'm probably town you just either can't read people or you're scum this game.

[Bell]

You're escalating to a trust tell, when he's basically asking you to self-meta.

[Bell]

they're*

[Bell]

Moving the goal posts just so you don't want to do something is more convoluted then just saying you don't want to do something.
I doubt it would have hurt your position any. But okay.

[Bell]

Just reading you based off your posts I genuinely think your focus is off and you're more concerned with the argument than the facts.
In general I would call this engaging in sophistry. Which I called you out on forever ago and which you replied by arguing that, using your powers of deduction or something Titus was still scum.
Now here you are saying the same things to me about being scum when I'm not.

Given what seems to be your reasoning, do you think it's my fault you're misreading me if you're town?

[Bell]

Like I don't believe you were trying to understand where I was coming from with regards to my push on Titus yesterday at all. It mostly felt like you chose to just take Titus' side and avoid the obvious blowback that would've occurred from her townflip.

I find this hard to believe given my posts surrounding the Titus wagon and the unorthodox thinking I was using and hesitating with.
I'm pretty much incapable of being imaginative when I'm scum and my positioning was not "just waiting for you to get blow back on a misread"

[Bell]

At least with HP I can kinda sorta see why they wouldn't want to be wrong on someone they really wanted to be correct in townreading.

All I'm hearing is that you don't want to lose people you might need later so here's a cherry HP.

[Bell]

You said you were suspecting people of voting you for scum motivated reasons and you're already back pedaling on everyone that's not directly in your line of sight(there was only one other person).

[Bell]

Among us ended so I actually had a pretty similar experience with titus in that game where she totally thought I was scum but for the wrong reasons.

It involved a convoluted plan where I shaded her for not going to the room she said she was going to go and then a scum partner interuppted that room so she couldn't go there.

It was totally unintentional but she didn't know that.

But how you reacted was fairly close to how I reacted, which was hard scum reading her and trying to out argue her as her reasoning being bad and convoluted.

It was! but it didn't matter because my response was your response and this is also(well, not really I always hesitate and it's just in my nature to see somebody claim out of nowhere and ask myself if scum would really ever do that. You ignored it or side stepped it, constantly reinforcing your view without engaging in the missing puzzle pieces arguing that you didn't care about them)

[Bell]

You paid lip service is the best I can say about it you unvoted but only after I called you out for not hesitating r thinking it through fully.
You focused and engaged in a battle without considering the broader outline and interactions with S_S and Titus that probably went on. Which is just plausible enough that I can't point at you and say you're obvious scum.

Even if it sucked.

[Bell]

Okay. Brian. Look at my words for a moment.

In among us, it was also confirmed bullshit because I knew I didn't do what she said I did.
How I responded is the issue.
You're clinging not to your response but that you won the argument which I don't give 2 shits about.

[Bell]

It's not a small part of what went on, it was a total blind spot that had an explanation for their behavior.

S_S and Titus discussed it.
Titus decided to go after you and talked to S_S about it.
S_S didn't agree and Titus being Titus went after you for it. After thinking about it.
Titus outted their role unprompted to save a doctor from getting miseliminated.
A vote you had made earlier and half-assed walked back with the strength of a mewling elk. Neither you nor skitter get points for dividing me by basically looking awyay and pretending I didn't exist.

I had significantly more reason to side with Titus than with you.

[Bell]

All of this went on, but did you register it or gauge the plausibility of it?
You intentionally ignored factors that did not fit into your world view.

[Bell]

No, it's not about whether I won the argument.

Why are you focusing on whether or not I should've reconsidered my read on Titus from the Titus-S_S interaction when at that point I was more concerned with her shitty push on me?

There's a logical disconnect here.

I'm stating that her shitty push on you isn't the whole story and you made it the whole story by ignoring everything else in service to it.

[Bell]

Which sophistry which is probably scummy. Since it does not concern itself with the truth.

[Bell]

Because I told her several times her push was bad and she ignored it.

But apparently only I can be the bad guy here.

Yeah, okay Bell. I totally believe you think this.

Really

[Bell]

Pretty sure I gave an alternate account in which you just omgussed titus to death.

[Bell]

Because I told her several times her push was bad and she ignored it.

But apparently only I can be the bad guy here.

Yeah, okay Bell. I totally believe you think this.

You sound like the husband in a married couple.

[Bell]

Damn it bell how did you ninja that joke

I'm good at recognizing cheese when I see it.
I'm not sure Brian town would be able to write that with a straight face.

[Bell]

#7661: Bruh

[Bell]

For instance I doubt Annie Edison and Hench Princesses are scum together

Why?

Do you think they could be scum together? Or are you just trying to read spiffeh from across the sea.

[Bell]

I don’t know.

It’s weird seeing skitter in tinfoil notsci land now that she’s caught up.

Still struggling to see bell, hp, you, and Dunn flip red.

So Gyphx and SB9.

[Bell]

I'm having difficulty imagining a world where HP or Annie is scum.
So saying they're not scum together is quaint.

[Bell]

HP do you want to purple room?

[Bell]

Do you still think I'm scum SB9.

[Bell]

For the best, I'm actually town this game.

Spiffeh is aggressively mediocre posting in the other thread again.

[Bell]

What was your opinion of him from the purple room again?
If you have the time.

[Bell]

You’re makin me wanna SR you again now tho

And why is that?

[Bell]

I'm fine going to the purple room and talking it out with anyone.
I suppose preferably Petapan.

[Bell]

I just don't think I would have the guts to fan your paranoia and would worry about it backfiring honestly.

#6288: Not really. I think you're wrong on Annie and they've posted enough that I feel fairly comfortable saying that.

[Bell]

It's sad that Skitter is making sense on the spiffeh turnstile.
Unless they think he's town in which case that's super weird.

[Bell]

he thought the IC could have plausibly had the macho modifier

he also thought I was your fruit vend in XIV ftr

he tends to have... unexpected... mech takes as town, and that specific post felt very much in line with his XIV thought processes

I haven't played with him as scum but he feels pretty consistent with his townrange here, maybe that would be more accurate

This really isn't enough for me.
He has a lot of bad posts and I know just from the one other game I've played with him that he can play significantly better and smarter than this.

we played another game together? and if i have bad posts, point them out, i don't recall you casing me

Boonie tunes.

[Bell]

he thought the IC could have plausibly had the macho modifier

he also thought I was your fruit vend in XIV ftr

he tends to have... unexpected... mech takes as town, and that specific post felt very much in line with his XIV thought processes

I haven't played with him as scum but he feels pretty consistent with his townrange here, maybe that would be more accurate

This really isn't enough for me.
He has a lot of bad posts and I know just from the one other game I've played with him that he can play significantly better and smarter than this.

we played another game together? and if i have bad posts, point them out, i don't recall you casing me

ouch, must be hard to remember how to townplay after that lol

oh yeah, you roll scum a lot don't you?

How.

[Bell]

The time stamps in the other game are like 5 minutes apart.
from asking me when I played with him last. It should be noted that what I linked he's referring to Flavor rolling scum 5 times in a row, but I was conversationally adjacent or included via a hectic mention.

[Bell]

also those bell brian interactions are never S/S

yes, well done.

[Bell]

My case on you is pretty much a collection of small points based on my interactions with you.
I actually don't want to condense them and post them all together because you're one of those cases where I'm just like, it's not a question of if I can yeet this it's whether it's town or not.
I hate my own logic and hang ups with your slot. You just seem like disengaged unoffensive scum. Who 'town slipped' in the same way any scum might try to when they hate being scum and would prefer to get cleared.

On the other hand it's genuinely so easy to pick apart your reasoning and thoughts that, to be frank you're the lowest hanging of lowest hanging fruit. It's not like there *isn't* LHF scum, but I'm literally asking myself if you'd be this vulnerable if you were scum.

[Bell]

I don't really want Dunnstrall to be purple roomed unless he changes his mind on my slot.
I don't think the game can be salvaged if Dunnstral keeps his reads where they are.

[Bell]

To FF, I've always been spiky in my opinion and I think that's relatively self-evident. I don't really think there's a single game where I haven't gotten into a tussle as either alignment really. Well, I can think of one. The music game. No, even there I got into a bad interaction with Ydrasse.

[Bell]

Okay,
So you mentioned that the IC could have been Macho right?
But when the IC died that attribute would have been shown. You either chose not to check or felt it would be a good idea not to check or you just couldn't be bothered to check (which is fine, I do the last one all the time and while it annoys other people, it never annoys me when I'm the lazy one!)

Likewise, your speculation that Muffin would have changed his mind on meta and that's why he was killed doesn't make sense, seems self-serving and doesn't truly engage it appears narrow minded.

You only suck that hard if you're scum this game tho.
And even then, you're what Toogooloo would describe as the scum that everyone knew was scum but somehow never got eliminated anyway.
And it's not like *I* can talk about having a horrible scum game I live in a glass dog house in that respect.

Uh, play style could certainly be a thing. But I felt you were fine in Boonie toons comparatively.

[Bell]

i'm not sure how experienced you are at mafia and what is shown on a flip and whether you would even know to check or not.

[Bell]

What do you think of Spiffeh Dunnstrall/Gyphx.

[Bell]

I also think you're being fairly mercurial, that you might have soft crumbed a PR in your first post/vote or that was some kind of in-joke to shelly (if it was please share what the in joke was or meant).
I don't particularly understand your approach to me, you ask questions say I make sense when I respond, ask some more questions say it makes sense.
Ask what everyone else is thinking in regards to my slot but never really take a stance that isn't fluid yourself.

From my standpoint you're pretty much the deciding vote as to whether I actually live today.
because Brian, dunnstrall, SB9 have roughly speaking lined themselves up trejectory wise, SB9 can simply make a lol idrc vote whenever.
You seem extraordinarily passive in some ways (the polite scum point) but proactively post in other ways which I can't neatly coincide. You just don't really push, maybe that's playstyle.

[Bell]

What do you think of Spiffeh Dunnstrall/Gyphx.

Leaning town but I'm not the best at reading them.

I remember liking some of their posts and disliking some of their posts.

Oh yeah, they posted a reads list in the inverse thread and I remembered thinking that was close to where my head was at, so I liked that and didn't want to elim them this day

This is vague.

[Bell]

I don't really think that Spiffeh goes outside the crust on a sandwich with his reads.
Just based off of Flavor leaf game and xeno where his reads were conformist.

[Bell]

I'm arm-twisting/politicking for leverage because your read needs to change and passively letting you change your mind doesn't seem to be mattering.
Scum range, effort, analysis, call it what you want, I've exceeded them, but the scum reads aren't changing, are getting old and are aging poorly.

[Bell]

I am simply low on patience and am getting frustrated.
I've literally never been miseliminated as town since I got back.
and I'd rather this not be the first game where that's happened.

For ease of reference, I have lost all 6 of my scum games since I got back. I am officially the worst scum player this year *probably*

[Bell]

Okay,
So you mentioned that the IC could have been Macho right?
But when the IC died that attribute would have been shown. You either chose not to check or felt it would be a good idea not to check or you just couldn't be bothered to check (which is fine, I do the last one all the time and while it annoys other people, it never annoys me when I'm the lazy one!)

Likewise, your speculation that Muffin would have changed his mind on meta and that's why he was killed doesn't make sense, seems self-serving and doesn't truly engage it appears narrow minded.

You only suck that hard if you're scum this game tho.
And even then, you're what Toogooloo would describe as the scum that everyone knew was scum but somehow never got eliminated anyway.
And it's not like *I* can talk about having a horrible scum game I live in a glass dog house in that respect.

Uh, play style could certainly be a thing. But I felt you were fine in Boonie toons comparatively.

well idk, protagonist seemed like a flavored role to me, like, non-normal, so it seemed logical that it could be more than an IC

like, i would've seen it as "welcome, you are the protagonist, you may at any point in the game reveal yourself as the leader of TENET, this will cause you to not be able to be protected from kills"

well, i'm trying to be as broad minded as i can but to me that's how this kill makes sense so idk... at least it got some discussion going

boonie was one of my better games so idk i'm pretty inconsistent, how do you feel about this one? : viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84770

still would like to get an example of what's bad with me

Just skimming that link you're more confrontational, engaged, and willing to take stances in that thread versus this one. Even the set up spec is less shoe-horned in.

[Bell]

Should the masons claim so the investigative doesn't waste time on them?

Bruh, i'm saying we either got masons or investigatives, not both tht would be busted

Anyways don't take my setup spec too seriously

[Bell]

Cakez, why do you keep quoting Annie?

[Bell]

I see. Thanks.

VOTE: Purple Room Dunnstrall

[Bell]

@People in the other thread have any of you meta'd Gyphx yet and have an opinion on his play?

[Bell]

@deacon, okay.

[Bell]

Phone is almost dead waiting in line for covid shot rhat’s A quarter mile long.

@deacon: oh, i didn’t notice you had asked me about any of my reads. Game moves fast.
Yeah i’ll answer but my phone is at 5%ish so not gunna do that right now.
I could give you the whole history from beginning to end if you’d like.

[Bell]

I'm home (that took for fucking ever) Okay so Skitter!
I'll just begin at the beginning.

So I played with skitter once.
And Mena talked her up.
Mena is...competitive when it comes to mafia so my initial opinion was to be cautious because Mena is a good scum player (imo) I would say that my initial impression was negative and first impressions are super important because often we just start ith first impressions and then run with them and never reevaluate which is bad for obvious reasons. Anyway, at the beginning I roughly speaking trusted Cabd, deacon, etc to have good reads etc so when she was run up for a claim and she claimed watcher, I was like, high value, likely to die...andddd she can't use her ability and people aren't turn stiling her and in general I just thought it was relatively survivalistic in terms of claiming. In addition, I no shit believed Fb's cop claim and a watcher+Cop didn't make sense so I went with initial impressions.

My read on Skitter has varied wildly from post to post. Sometimes I think her posts are super townie, imaginative/creative, couldn't possibly come from scum, has the exasperation right and then she posts something absolutely bonkers. When Dunnstral started mentioning that a doctor/Watcher was a broken combo (and the set up probably wouldn't allow for it) since I know I'm doc, this made it more probable in my view that Skitter was scum, even though she was town reading me through this and the set up speculation. Her read of me was always weak sauce, undefined/refined and felt more like air than that she had actual reasons.

The most recent post that Skitter made that made me think she was scum was her spiffeh unvote, which drove me up the wall.
Her most recent town post was the set up speculation on Dandilion, this does not in anyway mean I agree with her that their role is scum or even scum aligned or "a scum role" or whatever, I have no fucking clue. Obviously Cabd and I aren't scum together. But I do think that it's an imaginative, creative push that is outside the box for scum to push even though she did need to push back at them due to their recent positioning shift. I do not know what caused their shift on Skitter to occur I also read somewhere here that Skitter started calling me mafia and shifted position but I haven't read that either.
Anyway, the point being is that I don't think with the bodyguard, role blocker + doctor. That a watcher makes as much sense as a tracker would.
I do not think A50 has been inredibly Townie this game or, really, is ever really incredibly townie.

I think in general I want to emphasize that I haven't been paying close attention to the other thread. I kept pushing for Skitter's elimination because I felt that Dunnstral was not wrong on his role speculation only that, because I KNOW I'm a town doctor that it's more likely that Skitter is scum regardless of posting and I do think they have a strong will power to them that would allow them to keep fighting for as long as necessary to change their situation or keep themselves alive.

The tracker has a lot of false positives while a watcher seems OP.
On the other fuckinghand.
The role speculation and conclusions we've tried to reach this game has been *AWFUL*
with titus and S_S getting yeeted in part because their role seemed to already be in the 'ideal' position.

There's something to be said for a neighborhoodizer/lover pair thingy and how that might effect their perception of the claim.

What I'm trying to say is that I'm a literal waffle. Bite me.

[Bell]

I feel like I just had a stroke and failed to articulate myself.
I'm tired today.

[Bell]

Huh, I would have expected you to point out that SB9 made a lot of enemies and he really didn't need to as scum.

[Bell]

I would like to revive this horse to ask what you misunderstood.

[Bell]

Gyphx, without breaking the rules. Do you have a notes PT this game?

[Bell]

this is the type of shit where in post-game people are going to be like "omg goodfellas nom ez" when 90% of this game is town eating itself alive in one thread and just naked open wolfing in the other with the game getting totally fucked because town misplayed an extremely complex setup in the first two days

Depressing if true, though I've been thinking about Brian and think that that he fits that oscarbait role this game. Or rather I can easily see it being the case.

[Bell]

I recognize there's a bit of projection in my read, but Brian's attitude is a very effective attitude for scum to have.
Once, I threw a fake tantrum as scum and strongly insulted a player's play before quick hammering them.
I didn't get pressured the next day I think because the other town probably felt that I really believed that the other player deserved to die for their play that game.
I think that sort of chip on your shoulder projection is oscarbait scum brian.

I could be wrong tho. obv.

[Bell]

If petapan is scum this game, I am very impressed.
Though, I also know his scum play is impressive so like,
there's that bit of wifom that I'm sure he does not resent or get tired of hearing all the time.
Luckily, I will end this sentence by continuing to state he seems like town to me.
Though, I think his string is starting to unfurl. Should probably get that looked at before it becomes an issue.

[Bell]

Worst case scenario, scum yeeted town Skitter so that town Bell could engage in gladitorial self-ownsmanship where whoever wins, loses.
I still don't mind though, strangely enough. It's a solid play I think from scum Imo if that's the case. Though, not super subtle.
An issue I have is that I think if we fight here A50 is pseudo protected until one of skitter or I wins the duel. Because of more fear of self-ownsmanship where because they don't know which of the investigatives is real they basically hedge.

So if I win and Skitter is scum, great. A50 can track away.
If they're not though we are turbofucked.
If I lose, A50 gets dead, I flip town. etc.

I'm not sure their reasoning was unsound though from a town POV. It really just depends how this plays out

[Bell]

I guess at worst, Skitter dies tommorrow after A50 dies and I die and I really doubt she isn't scum if A50 is town.
So at least, we'll probably get one scum before we lose the game.
That's not bad!

[Bell]

If petapan is scum this game, I am very impressed.
Though, I also know his scum play is impressive so like,
there's that bit of wifom that I'm sure he does not resent or get tired of hearing all the time.
Luckily, I will end this sentence by continuing to state he seems like town to me.

Though, I think his string is starting to unfurl. Should probably get that looked at before it becomes an issue

.

I should be more clear. @Peta: I meant that you sound tired, sort of fed up, frustrated etc. Clumsily put collecting yourself was my suggestion not that you were made out of scum string or are a fake or whatever.

[Bell]

@Cabd: *back pat*. Try not to die of stress.

[Bell]

I mean maybe we could just call the game?

other thread is crossing all kinds of lines at this point

Pass.

[Bell]

All lines should stay firmly uncrossed.
I also, want to keep trying.

I'm against HP Or annie being turnstyled. I'll die if either leave this thread and I'm pretty sure this is going to be uphill anyway. But I'm game for it.

[Bell]

Hench Princess, I think LLD is town and your criticism is unfair

Turnstiling skitter over here makes sense because she wants to eliminate both skitter and someone else fromt hat thread, which I agree with

I don't really think the reads are in favor of a skitter flip over here Dunnstral. The second I saw them quick shoot Skitter over here, I was like, well the scum team is heavily fortified on that side probably so they let it happen.
They either looked at Skitter's avatar and decided it would be lovely to use a tiger to kill the annoying dog and they saw where skitter was going or they just looked at this thread, realied that hey, there's like 2 people town reading Bell here and everyone else is neutral to scum reading him.

So I don't think a surface analysis of this other thread and the game state really points to Skitter dying over here instead of me. Or at least, Skitter has a fighting chance imo.

[Bell]

but elimming a50 is fine

Bell, I'm not going to flip back to you today, you can chill, I'm not going to change my mind at the last minute

Oh.
Why did you decide skitter was more likely to be scum than me? Or whatever you're planning to lim etc.

[Bell]

Oh, that sounds like Tinnitus LLD.
Hopefully it'ss just temporary (mine's permanent).

[Bell]

VOTE: Skitter30
Doot.

[Bell]

My case on Skitter is air tight. Sheep me Brian.

[Bell]

I'm fine with Skitter poking and checking the corners of their cage before the cage fight.
Don't mind me.

[Bell]

Lol no it's not. Didnt bother picking it apart last night cuz at the time i wasnt in the thread but i will tomorrow night

It was a joke.

[Bell]

Don't pick apart my waffle that is soft and crumbly.
It's mine. Get your own.

[Bell]

I'll give ya a summary Skitter.
I think either the scum team sent you over here because they were sick of failing to be able to yeet you and they felt like a TVT Bell/Skitter Cage match would be amazing.
We've both spent a significant portion of our time this game trying to keep our heads above water.
Part of what gives me pause is that, like me, you never really stopped trying to solve.
Though some of your positions in the other thread sucked imo. But I could say the same for almost every player in this game to one extent or another.
it would explain how fast you got thrown over here too.
I also, actually agree that from my understanding of LLD she is very much the kill scum first ask questions later type and yeeting you over is actually weird fmpov. However, I haven't read the other thread closely enough to say for certain that she hadn't spent a significant amount of time trying to kill you in that thread before giving up and hoping for better luck here.

Points against this explanation is that Gyphx hadn't taken a firm stance even the most recent post of his only implies that he thinks I'm town, if there was an indication that Dunnstrall planned to yeet you over me, I missed it. Brian's scum reading me and Sb9 is relatively on the fence. FMPOV it very much felt like they sent you over here to kill me, than the other way around and I had no idea that the cards were set up like that. I also don't know if LLD wouldn't know that, have missed it or I missed it that she hadn't or didnt recognize the game state over here being one in which I probably die here if they get yeeted.

There's the watcher/ 2 protectives/1 pseudo protective, I don't really think role blocker is pseudo protective or intended to be tbh. That does point to scum you. I also felt that it was strange that it didn't give YOU pause when I claimed doctor, but like I said maybe I missed it.

If I have to I guess I could read all your posts over there and make a better case(which in this case would merely be a more nuanced one and not necessarily more definitive).
When/where did you change your mind on my slot btw? I missed the heel turn when you changed course did you justify it better than your TR of me?

or you're just scum.

[Bell]

Huh, those last 4 words I don't recall writing. Short term memory fail or maybe sentence fragment from earlier in post construction.

Anyway, I don't think you can or could really pick apart this case. I'm more interested in you making a case on me, because I generally think you'd struggle to make a good one given that I'm town and have a bunch of posts.
Maybe that confidence is misplaced though, it did end up working out with Doc claim blowback since enough people did recognize I was telling the truth to survive that. But it's not like I CAN'T get yeeted when I'm town.
I just haven't yet since I got back.

[Bell]

I'm also fine with you taking your time and poking around. Even though you're immediately planting roots and engaging with the players you need for their votes rather than just scum hunting while taking an impersonal tone with me in comparison. This can make it harder to dislodge you whether scum or town, but it probably benefits us in the long run to let you and just put in the extra work to dislodge you after creating associations as either alignment. I doubt I live/don't get immediately killed next dp for the loss, but it might help me point the finger at a scum before the loss so I'm okay with that.

Maybe you'll have better luck rooting out the scum over here if you're town than I have. Do your best.

[Bell]

Gyphx, without breaking the rules. Do you have a notes PT this game?

pretty sure that's breaking the rules already right?

No? We have a long list of experienced mods in this game, I'm not one of them. Did anyone address this or could address whether gyphx could mention whether they have a notes PT or not (or lie about having a notes PT) without getting killed?

[Bell]

@Bork, It's good. This game's a challenge.

Gotcha on the notes PT issue. I tended to think about it as more of a anybody can lie about having or posting in a PT and therefore it's unverifiable but usefulish information.

[Bell]

Since it can be hard to replicate.*
I did a small amount of meta digging on Gyphx to note he sometimes makes a notes pt for himself.
I thought the line of inquiry might be helpful.
But oh well.

[Bell]

I think the argument that LLD is scummy for wanting to turnstile Skitter over is pretty dumb.

Could you elaborate on your thought process and what information you gathered to reach this conclusion?

[Bell]

I forgot.
Who was/were the players that thought I was, like the only person on this side that was scum?
It occurs to me that pretty much everybody that has died on this side was either neutral or town reading me.
Even shelly.

[Bell]

@Brian, if you're town do you actually plan to iso me at some point and change your mind or is this more of a "as long as people are hard disagreeing with me, I won't push it, but I'm not going to change my mind and will yeet Bell at the first opportunity" sort of thing?

[Bell]

@HP, could you direct me to all the posts you've made that tell me you aren't scum this game?

[Bell]

Is Hectic one of you because I want hectic to self meta.
Because he's not bad at it.

[Bell]

Oh.

It was a serious request btw.
Just anything you think would help me read you correctly.

[Bell]

Reassurance actually works pretty well for me. Tbh.

[Bell]

That’ll do for reassurance.

[Bell]

I'm mildly incredulous that you don't have good reasons available to town read me after 950 posts, I find it more likely you just never iso'd me because we're in different threads.
I certainly haven't paid as much attention to the other thread as I would have liked.

I'm struggling to identify what you picked apart in my narrative jumble.

#6566: Unneeded I was going through a partial reread.

Could you clarify what you mean by 'what happens' set up wise on your town flip?

I'm tired.
I'm mildly confused at your meaning in regards to LLD sending you over here when you were more in danger over in the other thread from your pov.
If they sent you over here to be eliminated, but you feel the game state was such that your elimination was more likely in the first thread. But the scum team threw you out of that thread because they couldn't eliminate you.
But the reads over here were such that there was no guarantee of that while activating your ability.

Use your words bell!
Your position and comments are not clear and appear contradictory in regards to your own self-assessment of vulnerability in the two threads.

[Bell]

You currently think that the scum team yeeted you to this thread because they couldn't get rid of you.
Then said that you were more likely to die in the inverted thread than over here based on the available information of people's reads in this thread.
Is that correct?

You stated you had good reason to read other people in this thread as town over me. While you felt I was comparatively lacking. But I don't believe that's the case.

[Bell]

You've acknowledged that you haven't read me in depth. So any comparison between me and other players seems relatively meh. I don't know which posts you've read and which you haven't,
or which posts you've read in depth that gripped your attention and which haven't.

But your statement underneath all that or rather the foundation of your reads is skewed because you're reading the game haphazardly as available.
It lacks authority, even though you took an authoritative town when comparing me to other players in terms of townieness.

[Bell]

authoritative tone*

Ah man, I just figured out how to say this more concisely, it seems there's pretense behind your positioning.

[Bell]

Bell I can't believe you didn't comment on my "doctor tennant" joke because that was seriously a good joke. If you don't get it because you haven't seen Doctor Who then that is also something we need to work on

I've watched one or two episodes.

[Bell]

You've acknowledged that you haven't read me in depth. So any comparison between me and other players seems relatively meh. I don't know which posts you've read and which you haven't,
or which posts you've read in depth that gripped your attention and which haven't.

But your statement underneath all that or rather the foundation of your reads is skewed because you're reading the game haphazardly as available.
It lacks authority, even though you took an authoritative town when comparing me to other players in terms of townieness.

that is fair.

but i feel like the reasons i ahve for townreading the people i have are fairly strong

, which means i'll probably hit scum in the people i'm not. i do need to refine the reads in the 'outside of townreads' group, but like i said, i'm actively working on it

like i do think that the townreads are something that are fairly accurate/foundational. the not-townreads no, i agree with you that they're not

pedit if that's directed at me i don't know much abt doctor who

I want to say that's fair, but kind of, it's not.

[Bell]

well, no, i don't necessarily think that. like i can see that being a possibility for why i got yeeted here but i don't know if that was the only or main reason
honestly i'm not entirely sure why it happened.

i do think i was more likely to get yeeted there than here tho, yes

for people i'm townreading here:
- hp is significantly out of their scumrange and i don't think i can vote them this game like ever
-

gypyx is probalby out of their scumrange as well, but not quite as strongly

- unwnd was town, and i'm not as solid on dunn but i feel p good on uwnd and it's enough that i wouldn't vote that slot today

and i'm town
so that's half the thread and so if there's scum i gotta look at the other people
admittedly i don't have super strong reads on everyone else, but that's what i'm working on rn

1. I have no idea what their scum range is but I agree they're likely town.
2. Maybe I lack awareness of what scum range is defined as, but to imply he's busted out of his scum range is to imply that Gyphx doesn't have a scum game at all.
3. If unwnd was town, then dunnstrall is town because Dunnstrall replaced unwnd. Yes I know you understand this. No I don't know, understand what you mean. Do you mean that you think that while you are confident that Unwnd was town, you feel that, in comparison Dunnstrall was less townie, so you'll give them a pass until the pool narrows?

[Bell]

authoritative tone*

Ah man, I just figured out how to say this more concisely, it seems there's pretense behind your positioning.

i'm not sure i know what you mean
and ok if you think i shouldn't have townreads on those people, like, why not?

I'm saying your linear regression has a small, random, sample size and that the samples for obv town Bell are numerously available

[Bell]

Oh.
that's hopkirk.

[Bell]

Nevermind, I never guess right on alts. Forget it.

[Bell]

ok but i don't think i really have experience with you, but i do have a lot of irsthand experience with the others

[Bell]

I'm not asking you to meta me.

[Bell]

UNVOTE:

[Bell]

I am genuinely troubled by how quickly that Petapan wagon went through.
If he flips scum I'm even worse at mafia than I thought and I already thought I was terrible.

[Bell]

Am I mistaken when I read that,
Cabd trusted Bell on Shellyc.
Cabd Trusted Brian on Titus.
Cabd Trusted LLD on Peta

[Bell]

I'm probably not voting Annie this game.
Even though I know theyre thread avoiding.
It just genuinely makes no sense to me.

@Pedit: there's a strongman.

[Bell]

Also, sad that HP wrote 2 mega posts and then repped.
It was nice to finally get somebody in my corner.

[Bell]

Gyphx is just extremely low effort this game.
I don't even think he's being coached because that would imply his posts are townie. They're not.

[Bell]

Am I mistaken when I read that,
Cabd trusted Bell on Shellyc.
Cabd Trusted Brian on Titus.
Cabd Trusted LLD on Peta

What are you getting at here

ehhhhhh it actually being one neibhborhood with those actions makes dunn-scum more likely, not less so

And what are you getting at

I'm noticing a pattern that would be funny if he was scum because he almost copy pasted in Bell we trust, In Brian we trust, etc. But maybe someone else said that. But yes. Cabd is trusting people when I'm not used to or expecting him to trust people. He ponted out himself that early game he didn't get any real latches.

The only time he trusted himself was when he pushed at me and I'm town and I know that I must have tripped every town Bell Meta tell by this point.
But I don't see his stance changing in thread. I never saw his say "bell's town, nevermind!" I saw him get nervous.

And yeah, I'm sure in his PT or what not he has been going nuts. But I don't see that and I'm sure he can fake uncertainty with the best of them.

[Bell]

Did you think Petapan was scum Dunnstrall?

[Bell]

I need a wake up call.

Is it insane to think scum rushed Petapan to his death so we'd have less time over here?

[Bell]

Right now

yes I do think peta was scum

It's good to know that you might change your mind later. When the mod comes in and let's us know.

[Bell]

What am I missing Dunnstrall?

Petapan pushed everyone in that thread. Hard. His reads were different than most people's on that side. You've said yourself that I made too many enemies in the guns and rose's game. What made Peta different in that lense?
Most of us know that people who have reads that are out of bounds are more likely to get eliminated than those that stick closer to consensus.

[Bell]

peta is already flipped with little involvement from myself so I feel asking me for my read on him is ultimately a distraction

I'm poking at you because I don't get how that happened.
I don't understand how people who were playing in Smoke filled chamber could have looked at Peta's play this game and thought he was scum.

[Bell]

Cabd can still communicate with you through the neighorhood during thread end over there right?

[Bell]

Well, ask him why he decided to trust LLD and how he came to the conclusion that Petapan was more likely scum or not based. Ask him how much he considered Petapan through the lens of smoke filled as a comparison and why he weighed it less?

[Bell]

peta is already flipped with little involvement from myself so I feel asking me for my read on him is ultimately a distraction

I'm poking at you because I don't get how that happened.
I don't understand how people who were playing in Smoke filled chamber could have looked at Peta's play this game and thought he was scum.

Is it relevant to our side?

It's relevant to me because I'm trying to solve the game.
This helps me understand your alignment. It helps me understand his. Rather I think it might.
I never stop questioning my reads.

[Bell]

Is it insane to think scum rushed Petapan to his death so we'd have less time over here?

also, like, if this is the case (which i suspect), who does that point to over there?

This was short hand for a counter argument that was very ego-centric.
The first thing I suspected when I saw Peta just croak that fast was that
they were worried you'd talk your way out and I'd identify you as town because I'm a town hunter to an extent.

But I also know that, that's fucking stupid.
It could be anything from taking the opportunity of a couple of town votes to push through Peta with a heavy scum presence in the other thread.

Also his sudden 'giving up'
is easily explained by the negative interactions with LLD and others, plus the general environment in that thread. There's a clear ethical component to toning down rhetoric and his own temper which weakens his edge which makes it easier to eliminate him. But he'd do it anyway given social context.

[Bell]

There are too many variables and too many benefits to killing Peta town when given the opportunity with town already behind as it is.
There are a LOT of incentives to take an opportunity when it's presented.

[Bell]

What I'm trying to say is that I'm talking myself down it's relatively shakey. In some ways the thought is too simple and in other ways it's extremely complex and unlikely to be true. I should abandon this line.

[Bell]

Pretty much, Petapan probably blunted his own edge because he was uncomfortable with pursuing his win condition at all costs whether town or scum really. It's a person tell, not a scum or town tell. Maybe.

I get it's sort of a distraction but I'm processing and thinking out loud.

[Bell]

When did peta give up?

Ask Brian. I thought Peta was more subdued near EOD. But if I could identify a particular moment when it happened I have no idea.
I also don't think he gave up. Merely weakened himself.

[Bell]

@Brian, if you're town do you actually plan to iso me at some point and change your mind or is this more of a "as long as people are hard disagreeing with me, I won't push it, but I'm not going to change my mind and will yeet Bell at the first opportunity" sort of thing?

Why do I need to iso you?

The rest is actually a pretty fair representation of my current stance on you. Although I do reserve the right to change my reads as I deem necessary.

I was seeing if you had motivation to read me or not. This wasn't the townie answer, since you said as necessary rather than as appropriate or something to that effect. I just find it difficult to believe that anyone could be scum reading me with my posts.

1. I did not hard defend Titus as town. I demurred to the 'to weird to be scum' angle. My stance was always meant to be exploratory and investigative I genuinely felt that sufficient answers from Titus could have solved for Titus. You down played the questions that I felt were major questions that needed answers for her alignment to become more clear.
2. I thought Annie unvoted Titus because they were being emotional and so he hesitated.

I was reading back on Spiffeh's town read into scum read on Titus. It felt vaguely scummy.

[Bell]

Is it insane to think scum rushed Petapan to his death so we'd have less time over here?

also, like, if this is the case (which i suspect), who does that point to over there?

This was short hand for a counter argument that was very ego-centric.
The first thing I suspected when I saw Peta just croak that fast was that
they were worried you'd talk your way out and I'd identify you as town because I'm a town hunter to an extent.

But I also know that, that's fucking stupid.
It could be anything from taking the opportunity of a couple of town votes to push through Peta with a heavy scum presence in the other thread.

Also his sudden 'giving up'
is easily explained by the negative interactions with LLD and others, plus the general environment in that thread. There's a clear ethical component to toning down rhetoric and his own temper which weakens his edge which makes it easier to eliminate him. But he'd do it anyway given social context.

i meant more: look at it from who decided to try to take advantage of that. which names pop out?

brian i'm not ignoring your post will get to it on a pc a little later
if you could go over why g ypyx is scum again as well that would be helpful

Cabd, Spiffeh.

I'm not sure if in a Cabd scum world it makes more sense that he didn't just fool Dunnstral or use LLD's read as an excuse to vote them rather than either or both of them being scum with him.

[Bell]

gypyx, bell, brian, sb9, can i interst any of you in voting dunn?

i think his push on me here is fairly bad given taht it seems to be entirely based on setup spec - he seems to think he can get away with a push using just that as reasoning and won't or can't elaborate in any fashion

The problem is that he can get away with just that because I'm town reading him for some extremely clever posting if he's scum.

I think one of the heaviest indicators as to why I believe Dunstrall is not scum.
Is because of how he pushed ShellyC at the end of the first day.

Forwards TENET Operative

This role name doesn't seem to mention the amnesiac or cross-thread parts of your role though

If Operative is the name for a player, why is Shelly's role named "Operative"

16. A sample VT role PM is below:

Welcome to TENET SirCakez

ekaCriS TENET ot emocleW

You are a Forwards Tenet Operative

vitarepO teneT sdrawroF a era uoY

Abilities

-You begin the game in the Forwards timestream

aertsemit sdrawroF eht ni emag eht nigeb uoY

-During the day, you may vote for whoever you want to eliminate

tanimile ot tnaw uoy reveohw rof etov yam uoy ,yad eht gniruD

-You may Invert via a Turnstile by public vote

tov cilbup yb elitsnruT a aiv trevnI yam uoY

-You may enter the Purple Room each night by public vote

tov yb thgin hcae mooR elpruP eht retne yam uoY

If you invert, you will become

moceb lliw uoy ,trevni uoy fI

Spoiler:

You are an Inverted Tenet Operative

vitarepO teneT detrevnI a era uoY

Abilities

-You begin the game in the Inverted timestream

aertsemit detrevnI eht ni emag eht nigeb uoY

-During the day, you may vote for whoever you want to eliminate

tanimile ot tnaw uoy reveohw rof etov yam uoy ,yad eht gniruD

-You may Invert via a Turnstile by public vote

tov cilbup yb elitsnruT a aiv trevnI yam uoY

-You may enter the Purple Room each night by public vote

tov yb thgin hcae mooR elpruP eht retne yam uoY

If you invert, you will become your original role

lor lanigiro ruoy emoceb lliw uoy ,trevni uoy fI

You win once all of the

Sator Operatives

have been eliminated

etanimile neeb evah

sevitarepO rotaS

eht fo lla ecno niw uoY

The forwards game thread is here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=85288

:ereh si daerht emag sdrawrof ehT

The inverted game thread is here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=85289

:ereh si daerht emag detrevni ehT

You win once all of the

Sator Operatives

have been eliminated

etanimile neeb evah

sevitarepO rotaS

eht fo lla ecno niw uoY

The forwards game thread is here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=85288

:ereh si daerht emag sdrawrof ehT

The inverted game thread is here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=85289

:ereh si daerht emag detrevni ehT

This role name doesn't seem to mention the amnesiac or cross-thread parts of your role though

forwards tenet operative (modified follower)

this is my full name

Doesn't really make sense

It's like claiming Vanilla Town (modified follower)

This role name doesn't seem to mention the amnesiac or cross-thread parts of your role though

forwards tenet operative (modified follower)

this is my full name

Doesn't really make sense

It's like claiming Vanilla Town (modified follower)

But @Titus

it's possible the role originally read Forwards Sator Operative (modified follower)

And they switched Sator with Tenet, without realizing that that made up the town vt role

Is this a change to your claimed role name?

[Bell]

Is it insane to think scum rushed Petapan to his death so we'd have less time over here?

also, like, if this is the case (which i suspect), who does that point to over there?

This was short hand for a counter argument that was very ego-centric.
The first thing I suspected when I saw Peta just croak that fast was that
they were worried you'd talk your way out and I'd identify you as town because I'm a town hunter to an extent.

But I also know that, that's fucking stupid.
It could be anything from taking the opportunity of a couple of town votes to push through Peta with a heavy scum presence in the other thread.

Also his sudden 'giving up'
is easily explained by the negative interactions with LLD and others, plus the general environment in that thread. There's a clear ethical component to toning down rhetoric and his own temper which weakens his edge which makes it easier to eliminate him. But he'd do it anyway given social context.

i meant more: look at it from who decided to try to take advantage of that. which names pop out?

brian i'm not ignoring your post will get to it on a pc a little later
if you could go over why g ypyx is scum again as well that would be helpful

Cabd, Spiffeh.

I'm not sure if in a Cabd scum world it makes more sense that he didn't just fool Dunnstral or use LLD's read as an excuse to vote them rather than either or both of them being scum with him.

She's scum. Look at the way her reads turned.

I'm confused at why you quoted me. Also, please elaborate or direct me to the read switch and why the read switch is scummy.

[Bell]

Because it's extremely difficult to understand a scum motivation for pushing at someone who is going to flip town by A) Pushing harder on an already dead slot who was going to die likely regardless of whether he pointed it out. B) Noticed this claim discrepancy as scum, meaning as scum he was very cognizant of how to read another player, by correctly identifying she misnamed her role, and then went to check to make sure and then pushed her with question after question patiently until she was check mated for miswriting her role the first time she claimed.

It's just a really, really, really good series of posts that I have difficulty believing scum ever make given the context. Behind it.

[Bell]

Bell, can you remind me what your inverse reads looked like?

RN:

Peta:
FB
Deacon-Dandilion.
MWB
A50-LLD
Spiffeh

I have barely read a single post of Pooky's. Consider it worthless.

A lot of my reads go out the window or change drastically on a Petapan scum flip or a Skitter scum flip.

[Bell]

Like are you arguing that recognizing the fact that she messed up her role name is unlikely to come from scum? Because the aftermath of that doesnt make sense as a reason to townread him to me

The aftermath matters. But town are wrong all the time, as was I. How he was wrong and how he approached Shellyc I find extremely townie.

[Bell]

It doesn't make sense for him to do that as scum. It's a ridiculously thoughtful approach.

[Bell]

And Bell, where are you looking to vote today?

Skitter, Brian, Gyphx.
Is my pool.

Why won't you go after me if Skitter flips town?

[Bell]

Okay, I thought about this.

Thought about some other posts and I hope.
And hope and hope.

And hope.

You’re right dunstrall.

VOTE: skitter

Please be scum.

[Bell]

I must look very silly rn from cabd’s pov.

Well. It depends on the flips I guess.

[Bell]

If both you and PETA flip town I go after LLD with a avengance.

[Bell]

Then I worry about the rest.

[Bell]

My phone won’t let me post.

[Bell]

I might be the only player having fun this game.

Also, yay my internet is back. Spectrum took me down for hours.

[Bell]

I think, that you reversed too hard on me skitter.

For every 5 town posts you made, you made one post that felt super scummy or that I felt you couldn't have personally believed.

I'm saying this before you flip fmpov. I do take responsibility for my own vote and I'm sorry if wrong on you this game.

I felt like you were saying things with your posts that weren't what they seemed.
I felt like a lot of your posts were showing that you didn't have any scum members in your PT talking your ear off, but that it felt overexaggerated.

I am not sure why HP repped out and I'm not supposed to speculate.

I won't be very surprised if I was just manipulated again though.

[Bell]

I'm no sure if this is shook town skitter or shook scum skitter.

Guess we'll find out.

Is she hammered?

[Bell]

Oh skitter might be good infowise then, we will get resolution on the bell/skitter situation and on the tracker/follower stuff. If peta's scum I'd assume one of A50/annie are as well and whatever skitter flips bell is the opposite?

Good post.
esp. if scum.

[Bell]

My opinion on this lately is that every minute matters and giving town that information early for free isn't good for the scum team.

Dunno. We'll see.