Guns & Roses V [Game Over]

[Bell]

VOTE: Dunstral

[Bell]

Hello, all. I've come over from the artofproblemsolving forums as a few of us have been trying out the games here and have reported back positive things. Normally, we begin with some RQS, and so I'd like to propose that approach here to get things rolling:

1. What is your mafia experience like?
2. Do you prefer playing as mafia or as town?
3. How would you rate your scumhunting ability?

====

1. On and off.
2. Town by a good 500 miles.
3. Shitty.

[Bell]

Already have a good idea of your play, you give out bad ideas and then hope the scum team like, gives themselves away debating about them is somewhat of a summary?
I'm not sure how you're going to apply that to this game though.

[Bell]

Huh, that link was not what I was expecting to read based on what I just said lol.

[Bell]

Dunstral's scum btw.

[Bell]

Tanner, Jonny, Hiraki are town.

Or not.

[Bell]

Actually nvm on Hiraki, that caution preaching ain't enough.

Totes mcgoats the other two tho.

[Bell]

Your answer sets you up to have to bus your buddies before you even know whether you want to or not.
Or at least vote them at inopportune times.

It's not very strong, rvs etc. But gut.

[Bell]

There's literally only one post you've made that could be interpreted as caution preaching Hiraki. /:

[Bell]

Yus.

[Bell]

No, just saying that saying 'what if they're scum' is a voice of caution, but isn't particularly AI because scum do it all the time.
imo, imo.

[Bell]

lol.

[Bell]

Why're you voting town

[Bell]

Wow,
you uh.
You suck at this.

[Bell]

What else do you want me to say?
You're voting town, your reasons by definition, suck.

[Bell]

I don't really wanna engage on it. It feels like it will just result in a derail and suck up all the oxygen imo.
It might be good for you, but honestly, it isn't if you;re town so this feels like the right move from my perspective.

[Bell]

I'm saying you're not voting good. I felt you might have wanted to know this. I've done my duty.

[Bell]

Sorry, could you explain your point more clearly, I don't see where I picked a fight with Hiraki?
They voted me, I let them know that they voted wrong. If anything, i'm doing it so that they don't have the blood of the innocent on their hands if they're town.

[Bell]

It sounds like you're always or normally a hydra with Rose?
Yes, but no.
Hiraki has thick skin IMO. They can handle it. Probably.
If hiraki is tvting me there's not much to gain by asking them about why they think I was being inconsistent or lying or both. It's just not true and there's not much I can do with it.
If it's SVT, lol, I can't do anything with that either because nothing I could say would change their mind unless they decided to make a show of changing their mind.

[Bell]

roleplayers

A common enemy of the people, but not a good reason to vote somebody~

[Bell]

It sounds like you're always or normally a hydra with Rose?
Yes, but no.
Hiraki has thick skin IMO. They can handle it. Probably.
If hiraki is tvting me there's not much to gain by asking them about why they think I was being inconsistent or lying or both. It's just not true and there's not much I can do with it.
If it's SVT, lol, I can't do anything with that either because nothing I could say would change their mind unless they decided to make a show of changing their mind.

1) the fact that I have thick skin doesn't give you justification to try and insult me
2) this isn't how town thinks

1. Said you were bad at this, i.e., that you were bad at reading town for town, because I told you the truth and you voted me for it. Which means you either didn't interpret me correctly or are scum.
2. Is there actually a way for me to respond to this that won't sound horribly smug.

[Bell]

I stand by my sucking up oxygen statement.

Pass.

[Bell]

roleplayers

UNVOTE: Gun

I like their style

Scum.

[Bell]

Bell is being at least somewhat inflammatory. Therefore, I'm not sure his comments about not wanting to engage come from a town reasoning. Instead, I think he may not want to engage in conflict because it will bring more attention to him, and this seems especially dangerous from a player like Hiraki who has already said that he more often than not is able to find mafia on D1.

If he didn't want attention on him, he'd post less, surely

Bro, nobody else was posting and I'm used to games going like, 15 pages per minute.

[Bell]

VOTE: Akarin
VOTE: Dunstral

[Bell]

roleplayers

UNVOTE: Gun

I like their style

Scum.

Not that, they made real posts

Ya, I just don't think this one is real tbh.

[Bell]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassandra

[Bell]

Birthday today, post tmrw, have a good one.

[Bell]

Sorry, job interview early tomorrow morning, not gunna focus on this.

[Bell]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassandra

Why’d you do this unprompted? Seems a bit odd.

27 minutes til interview now seems like a good time to answer this.

Are you scum for asking this pointless question.
Or are you scum for weighing in on the hiraki/Bel interaction and deciding that one of us looks better than the other, instead of whether either of us are scum.
Though yes, town reading me for Wikipedia linking is silly.
Akarin got -town points for that.

@Sandman, just because I have terrible reads and am terrible at this game doesn't mean I have no playstyle. This is a pretty typical opening for me.

Dun hasn't budged.

VOTE: Akarin
VOTE: Gamma
VOTE: Dunstral

Meh on the fluff/to content Rose-to-gun-ratio.

[Bell]

I get ya, ya scummy mummy.

[Bell]

Nope, I just looked it up because I didn't know what cassandra was referring to and decided that I doubted anybody else did either so I made a link that took me 0.02 calories of effort to complete.

[Bell]

You know there’s more ways to convey SRs than voting all of them at once right btw?

Y....yes? You've played me before. You know I don't usually do this. So this question seems rhetorical but goes nowhere except trying to make me look silly I guess?

[Bell]

played with me*

[Bell]

I got the job.
Probably hopefully.

[Bell]

Yes and I’m aware of that too. The point is to poke at it with absurdity to get you to specify why you’re doing it in THIS game.

I don't see how it's much different or anything more than surface nitpicking tho.

[Bell]

Well it probably doesn’t mean much but I’m still curious.

The best I have for you is that I'm a little more creative and experimental when i roll town so, expect some variance?
This is what I mean tho, it's weird that you don't expect me to vary somewhat. Rather this is the kind of "They're DIFFERENT!" surface shading I would expect from scum, but, not, ya know town.
Though I did notice the Dunstral WKING which is very much town you. So that's conflicting information that.

[Bell]

As for why Dunstral, it's RVS and whatever my reasons are they are by definition bad reasons because it's RVS.

Basically tho, it's cause he voted out the gate and has been awkward ever since.

[Bell]

Sure, I was just explaining the initial reasoning for my Dun vote, because tap dancing around things is for the scumlords.

[Bell]

But I thought we were all agreeing that having thoughts on page 1 was for scumlords!

Buddying detected.
Are you my town buddy or a scumbuddy.

[Bell]

As for why Dunstral, it's RVS and whatever my reasons are they are by definition bad reasons because it's RVS.

Basically tho, it's cause he voted out the gate and has been awkward ever since.

Just need ABR and DGB to chime in on this now

Aw, yes.

Buddy/buddy interaction.

Bell noticed AWKWARD because buddies always sound awkward. And then when he noticed a little bit too much awkward, he started bus'ing on day 1 to trade a liability for some town cred.

I wonder if it'll work.

You mean you think i’m Scum buddies with dunstral?

[Bell]

@Hiraki, not just you. It’s complicated by Gamma’s playstyle somewhat. It’s very common for him to white knight as town.
I’m not sure how self-aware he is about it and whether he would play into that as scum tho.

@hiraki, thanks for the well wishes. :3

[Bell]

That’s fine as long as you eliminate me last and let me bus all my scum buddies. :3

[Bell]

Okay gamma, could you explain why you decided to ask me if I was legit in scum claiming and asking that dgb let me bus my buddies before eliminating me last.

[Bell]

How have I been awkward?

Imagine going to a potluck and you're the only one that didn't bring anything.

[Bell]

I didn't know either. If that is, I'm not even talking about you there.

o. Who were you talking about?

[Bell]

I thought Hiraki was talking about Gamma. Since I don’t think i’ve defended anyone this game.
Mm.

[Bell]

How have I been awkward?

Imagine going to a potluck and you're the only one that didn't bring anything.

This is a non-answer

that's definitely me trying to describe how you've been awkward in my eyes.

[Bell]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

[Bell]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

So you were distancing, not bus'ing.

Sorry, your prince is in another castle.

[Bell]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

Mind explaining this?

Akarin's Iso is really short.

[Bell]

I was talking about Akarin. Guess people weren't agreeing.

I’d have to re-look at Akarin to tell if that’s how I feel about her.

@DGB so it’s a gut read?

[Bell]

Should I have waited until you never did it.

[Bell]

Oh,
I'm not sure. But I think you're scum this game and were stalling on your own positioning.
This + really stilted interactions and interpretations like for example, genuinely asking me if I was serious about my scum claim and like 2-3 gut pings and thoughts landed me here.
I'm gunna keep the door open and make sure I don't mess this up though.

Are you forcing yourself to post more since you know that not posting much will get you scum read?

[Bell]

You sound genuine in that response.

[Bell]

I think he can both be telling the truth in that statement and still be scum. No good vibes were had or mentioned.

As for the rest, k.

[Bell]

I think he can both be telling the truth in that statement and still be scum. No good vibes were had or mentioned.

As for the rest, k.

then why did you make the statement in the first place?

I made an evaluation of his statement and thought post-his post whether it was a lie by omission. I couldn't rule it out so.

[Bell]

How convenient.

It's convenient because your statement ringing true isn't mutually exclusive from being scum?

[Bell]

It was a thought I had and I wanted to see if the thought was true or not.
Ultimately, I don't think it was.
I don't think you're forcing yourself to post more than typical. Even though you're posting more than typical. It might just be because the game is slower than the kinds of games I'm used to and this is causing you to post more in lieu of being forced to read to keep up. You also mentioned that this was sort of a tidy replace in which I took to mean you might have your footing under you better than is typical for you when replacing in due to it being earlier than usual or perhaps with less hyperposters in it.

Pretty much I thought about an explanation for your posting rate and asked you about it and felt that no, I'm barking up the wrong tree in this case on this topic.

[Bell]

Remember that crazy game with the 3 factions we were in and A50 noticed you were thread avoiding before derailing himself out of your elimination, but Mena and Mastina secured it?
I thought you might try to compensate.

[Bell]

Sure, the last burning question I have for you rn, is why you thought I might've been serious about the bussing thing and then ran some very rudimentary math for no reason I could divine.

[Bell]

Er, if I eliminate two scum I'm probably town and would probably try to keep my head overwater since that increases the odds of a town win even more. I'd gladly take a 2 scum for 1 town trade tho.
Though, I'm still not quite getting it.
It's probably easier just to read me for....however I'm playing here and just note the very obvious differences between my scum and town games. I just plain don't play the same.
VOTE: Dunstral

[Bell]

Bell moving their vote back onto me doesn't feel natural

Iso dunstral,
eliminate Dunstral.

That's my take D1.

[Bell]

VOTE: Bell

Remains valid even if I expire.
Without power roles there's really no good explanation for Duns early play here.

@Uncrowned: ?

[Bell]

Why do you want Gamma to TR you? is it a history thing?

[Bell]

So,

DrippingGoofBall:

Gamma's "I'll read Akarin later post" Should have pinged DGB, but didn't I'm not sure why. I try to read DGB through their own statements about how they read their games. Too many town reads hasn't popped up yet.
The idea of scum projecting however has, though DGB used it incorrectly by guessing that I thought Dunstral was awkward because I felt awkward and thought my partner was obv scum so I decided to push there based on a weak read?
DGB used similar reasoning in the dance game.
I'm trying to fill a void of data from DGB. I don't think the Gamma town read is too unnatural at this point given his recent posts just from a mere propinquity perspective. Though I'd like them to explain it.
I dunno what to do with the Dunstral bussing thing, since it's just not true, but there's no way to prove a negative. I'm not sure if they're kicking dirt or not.
I'm fine with that tho.

Weak lean town. Not amazed by it though.

[Bell]

Uncrowned:
I did some very basic meta to see how he comes up with reads list and whether he comes up with them early like that. I can see how a reads list that early could have pinged a town Albert.
It's borderline. He gave out a reads list a little earlier than he usually does. But not to the point where I think it's outside of his town range.
I do think he's thread avoiding a little. But he's on a very different time schedule from the rest of us I think.

375 sounds like a comment on either ongoing or past games, I have not looked into it. But I don't think the post is too strange. He does like to be town read and is part of his style according to his comment. though I do think it slightly weird he decided to talk to Gamma about being town read rather than comment on the Bell vs. TheWorld parade.

I'm also not sure that it makes sense for Uncrowned to ask for a town read from a possible scum Gamma. He hasn't given a read on Gamma. Though there's room for a read post-interactions so maybe he just sort of side commented on it?
I'm filing in the void again.

Weak town lean. I'm pretty conflicted. 375 gives me the town feels because, it seems a little brazen to ask for a town read as scum, but it's not amazing either. I think I just need to see more from him. Though, I could say the same for pretty much everybody.

[Bell]

Town needs to post more.

[Bell]

k.

[Bell]

It meant I'll go read it. I kimmed it then got sidetracked. You're really not the town I need to see post more tho. It's mostly to everybody Albert activity and below.

Go ahead and spell it out.

[Bell]

I've posted multiple times about thinking your scum game is bad.
But you do you.

What's this have to do with Uncrowned wanting a town read from you specifically though?

[Bell]

You don't think it's weird he just automatically assumes you're town here?

[Bell]

Nah, that makes perfect sense.

[Bell]

If you're a power role getting to night and doing your thing is usually more effective than whatever you do during the day if you're not a GOAT.

[Bell]

Let me reword,
Iso dunnstral.
From my POV the only thing he's done so far has been to shade town me.
That sends like every alarm Bell I have off.

[Bell]

It's 3 am here. Such dedication, also go to bed.
Also, plz don't town read avatars.

I don't disagree with 87, I initially misinterpreted that post and ended up arguing against it. Rather the wording was vague enough that I ~think~ I misinterpreted it.

it's not really a whatever kind of thing Akarin, scum be draggin' their feet.

[Bell]

Bell your reason to vote me keeps changing

If you're implying I never low post as town without a pr you're wrong

Yup, votes are dynamic.
I know you low post, but not even a gut ping by page what, page 17?
No, but you've always been a PR when you've been at your most inactive from my personal experiene, with the least content and the fewest takes.

[Bell]

Perhaps, I should say you'd be more justified. If you were a PR for your current lack of anything resembling...anything.

[Bell]

I can’t tell if sandman is fake tunneling or not.

[Bell]

If i’m not scum who is scum sandman?

[Bell]

No, but i’m seeing either fake confirmation via or real confirmation bias.
Your house of cards where i’m The foundation for all your other reads and interactions is a scaffolding that falls apart the second I flip.

Dunnstral’s already voting me btw.

[Bell]

I think my main suspects would all be contained within:

Bell, Akarin, Rosé, Iconeum, JohnnyFarrar

You don’t suspect dunnstral?

[Bell]

No, I want reasons, not a list.

[Bell]

If i’m NOT scum who is scum?
Who’s the counter wagon to my wagon?
Why is there a distinct lack of interest in Dunnstral who is contentless?

[Bell]

Dunnstral is more on the neutral side to me than the actively scum side. There's also the fact that things seem to be defaulting towards his execution and I would imagine that scum would be trying to resist that, whereas I am not seeing a lot of pressure on any of the people I suspect.

How are they defaulting towards his execution when I have more votes than him?

[Bell]

Dunnstral is more on the neutral side to me than the actively scum side. There's also the fact that things seem to be defaulting towards his execution and I would imagine that scum would be trying to resist that, whereas I am not seeing a lot of pressure on any of the people I suspect.

Uh, aren’t you suspecting me. Am I not under pressure?

[Bell]

Look sandman.
There are a lot of potential explanations.

Dunstral and I are both town so scum don’t care.
Dunstral is scum so they’re trying to avoid pushing at him when they usually would because it’s easy.
The scum team is mostly or entirely in the inactive section and everything is mostly town driven and the town is eating itself because scum don’t exist in the town’s minds.
If you believe that people are discernible and that players get more discernible as the game goes on, what does that say about you that you’re scum reading the highest content poster in the game?

[Bell]

Gamma why are you voting me.

[Bell]

Elaborate.
Since that’s obviously untrue.

[Bell]

actually don’t elaborate. I don’t care about why you’re wrong and why you’re unable to use your meta knowledge of me to discern my alignment this game.

[Bell]

I don’t, I think you’re just not using it.

[Bell]

I hate being voted and I want to go on a long diatribe about why everyone sucks. But the. I’ll be dead instead.

I guess when I did time i’ll Just lay out everything i thought and hope everyone isn’t totally incompetent at recognizing the truth?

[Bell]

Because you use meta and you white knight people and give off crazy reads all the time.
You seem confident in meta and use it regularly.
Why not here? What’s stopping you from using it?

[Bell]

I don’t have a huge amount from iconeum but they wanted to day vig me in the last game we were in together so, at least they’re consistent.

[Bell]

I don't think Uncrowned and Gamma are scum together. Due to the earlier interaction about asking for a TR. I'd be surprised if they were. I know probably nobody ares or will use it going forward but I'll probably complete a readslist at some point and you can do what yo will with it, even though it will be of limited usefuness and accuracy due to activity issues and limited AI moves.

I have a minor town read on Hiraki. Due to gut and trying to get the game going in their own way. It's at least fair sportsmanship if the scum team are all lurked out and it's a town eating itself thing. Perhaps I should say it's well intentioned. Though I have done similar prodding about activity as scum before. Sorry for fence sitting, but that's life in a nutshell.

@Sandman, It was RVS, I go with gut feelings and hot takes to get the game going and fake confidence early game. I will eventually get around to thought spewing more than I already am per 445. But I'm trying not to neglect otherstuff.

[Bell]

I try not to use meta as a crutch. I think it's a good side dish, not so much a full meal. If I can explain a read without it I will do my best to.

Is that really true? You've used meta as the basis for a lot reads in other games.

[Bell]

I'm town this game, so I dunno. But I deserve the consequences of a misread same as anyone else if he flips town.
And also if he flips scum(sorry if wrong).

[Bell]

Yeah, but I don't like that I do that, and would prefer to be more proficient at explaining myself without it. Honestly the thing I

should

do in that regard is play more games with reckoner and other anti-meta players, that way I force myself to use arguments based in the current game to convince people. But those people don't play as much as others who aren't as distasteful of meta.

That's fine, but you've whole heartedly leaned into meta before without seeming adverse to it. I don't have enough context to say more on this topic tbh.

[Bell]

What's everyone's preference for elimination within {Bell, Akarin, Momrangal (the Rose slot)}? Submit as an ordered list
We can probably send one of the if we coordinate, and I'm not against any of them aorn.

All of these reads are town.

[Bell]

Gamma to my knowledge is not a particularly accurate hunter. I've watched him lose a lot of games.

[Bell]

@gun, why in the world did you spoiler that.

[Bell]

@gun, you're correct on Dunstral interpretation.

[Bell]

I try not to use meta as a crutch. I think it's a good side dish, not so much a full meal. If I can explain a read without it I will do my best to.

Yeah, but I don't like that I do that, and would prefer to be more proficient at explaining myself without it. Honestly the thing I

should

do in that regard is play more games with reckoner and other anti-meta players, that way I force myself to use arguments based in the current game to convince people. But those people don't play as much as others who aren't as distasteful of meta.

why hiraki
he gives a similar vibe to 2fold 2d3 rn

plz.
Also, I was in that game and what. if I recall Hiraki got into a huge fight with both scum Jake and town Mena, while hard town reading Dramonic. I've seen this sort of Hiraki town before, but not in that game.

[Bell]

I'm asking him something when it doesn't make sense to me. You know, when I don't know why someone is doing something?Also, I didn't call him out for asking pointless questions in the posts you're referring to. I'm asking why he said he would rather not use meta as a crutch and then gave you a half-assed meta read 5 minutes later.

Also, don't gas light me. Let the record show you later voted Mena's replacement. Though yes, your read of Jake was accurate well done may all rightfully accurate reads be recorded as such.

[Bell]

I'm officially done hoping against hope that someone else will think for me this game.
I stayed up all night , couldn't sleep.

Get dunnstral, stop fucking ignoring him.

[Bell]

I'm going to sleep.

[Bell]

I don't actually think it's Bell on review, but if someone who does can shoot him, that would be wonderful

VOTE: Momrangal
Predeccesor never wowed me, bad reads, defensive vote

Shoot this instead.

[Bell]

I'm asking why he said he would rather not use meta as a crutch and then gave you a half-assed meta read 5 minutes later.

Is this the only instance where Gamma calls me town? It's not even the first. You still haven't answered the premise of my post which is "who would actually be convinced by this?" This is just useless bickering about Gamma talking about "vibes" and you're saying that's the crutch of his read.

Also, don't gas light me. Let the record show you later voted Mena's replacement. Though yes, your read of Jake was accurate well done may all rightfully accurate reads be recorded as such.

Yeah, that's fair. I forgot 100% about how badly that slot was blundered.

There was one other time where he called you town by insinuating you looked better than I did, without a hard stance. Never details, never specifics. loose.

[Bell]

I think Momrangal's opening posts were pretty townie for a replace in.
It could be scum, sure in that sort of here's two obvious towns the rest is my play ground sorta way.

[Bell]

Also, at the gun TR read, nah.
If you actually read what they wrote you'll notice it's not particularly great.

Scum make longer posts than town but make less posts overall.
So Gun fits that. There's a fence sitting too.
Could know dun is town, hard to know for sure.

Hiraki is town imo. I just don't agree with any of the reasons presented as to why.

[Bell]

I don't see anything from Dunstral changing my mind.

So if someone could shoot that or eliminate it after I get shot and flip town, I'd appreciate it.

[Bell]

3 players slaved their votes to DGB,
so there's apathy there that's quite an issue.

I dunno really know why the only player other than me that's active is Gamma.
But he does deserve town points for that and he is very weird in my eyes so picking at him and every question I can ask to gt my hands on is just how I'm trying to sort him, while also desperately hoping I don't read him wrong cause I don't wanna read weird town as scum.
There's just a lot of holes in that logic.

Sandman's just really boring tbh. my eyes glaze at his posts.

[Bell]

I agree with Dunstral that I've made too many enemies.
But also, I kinda just make a lot of enemies in general, I'm sort of polarizing (spoilers: or a prick if you'd prefer).
But effort usually makes up for that since they usually acknowledge I have no fucking clue who the scum are and in a way that makes it super duper hard to think I'm scum.
I'm in too many games rn so I never realy got to thought spew.

I advise DGB if they're serious about their TR of gun for that one post, to remember how many other times they've been taken for a ride based on a single post by scum in the past.

I've long learned to be super cautious of wall posts with low activity.

[Bell]

In general, I strongly advise that the town pick up activity and try to solve for each other, without deep wolfing scum by mistake.

I'm not sure if the scum are lurking or not. Or how many are, which ones don't care about the game and which ones are just overwhelmed scum. They kinda all look like that to me.
And no, I'm not talking about dunstral, I'm familiar enough to know he does hard lurk like this as town, but just....nothing until the very end after I pushed at him for this day is blah.
and bleh.

And I think Scum would be pushing harder at him if he wasn't instead of me.

Could argue that one of DGB/ALbert is scum but who knows really.
No this isn't a wifom scum post, shut up.

[Bell]

Likewise, I have a general aversion to being town read by people because, I shit you not, I genuinely only think scum understand me and I doubt they al tried to wagon me. At least a few like, ignored me or something maybe.
I dunno. I'm blind. Look at my sunglasses.

[Bell]

Likewise, I have a general aversion to being town read by people because, I shit you not, I genuinely only think scum understand me and I doubt they al tried to wagon me. At least a few like, ignored me or something maybe.
I dunno. I'm blind. Look at my sunglasses.

I'm implying that scum tr'd me maybe as well in this post I dunno how it was lost.

In general, what I'm saying is, is that I don't know who the scum are and basically don't have a true solid grasp on the game because nobodies posted to my satisfaction except, strangely, hiraki.

[Bell]

But maybe I'm just biased because I prefer people that speak with me on the level. *shrug*

[Bell]

It's kind of fucked up that my strongest TR has voted town me the whole game phase though.
Maybe I shouldn't write them off like this, god knows I fake tunnel as scum and act like a dense brick t get the person I'm scum reading to scum read me too, but in this case, obviousy not the same because hiraki never posted like a dense brick.

Just never realy brough the manajoes, the gamma intervention just looks like more of for their own comfort and position than actually reading gamma's posts imo. Yes, I'm saying what I'm seeing, not what is actually there.

[Bell]

scum reading to town read me*

[Bell]

Hiraki is probably town.

Sure.

I don't really agree with your gun read tho.

[Bell]

Also, why did a bunch of people slave to your vote, I don't think I've seen you be accurate in a game yet. But, I've only payed with you like 3 times and I still think you're a good player, but not for raw scum hunting ability maybe?
Eh, I'm being a dick again. I'm just not getting it.

[Bell]

Thanks for letting me know you can't read me or are scum.
Before I just didn't know whether you could read me or were scum.

We've advanced.

[Bell]

Okay, but I'm not glitch and I'm town so like.

What.

[Bell]

I dunno if I could they kinda feet dragged then made one long post. With a bunch of fence sitting.

Their approach to me early game was fairly linear, unique but didn't go anywhere and seemed more of a case of trying to dig to let me dig mysef deeper than dig me out.
Kind of like they knew I was town and were more doing an autopsy on my play than trying to read me imo.


@Dunstrall, Gamma, Johnny.

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Gun kinda reminded me of some scum players that emphasize. ' like, they don't know who the scum are you know?' in that sort of voice.

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Um, because scum can get an extra shot off too?

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I still like them for town, but even I can make up an argument for someone wanting to claim a gun or not.
I do think the reads on Margagel are more because they repped in and tried to move things around.

It feels closer to a town replacing in with clarity/unique perspective than scum, but it's not like, out of this world to me.

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i'm town because i said it, you have to believe me

Aw, are you mocking me? Yes you are.
That's cool. But like, interspersed with the I'm town stuff is stuff that town usually does because town me is doing it so I'm pretty confident that town post how I post because loop.

Repeating it doesn't make it more or less true, nor does it feel like you're making a point. I'm not asking you to believe me. I'm stating my perspective.

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Why?

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Actually, don't answer that.
I don't particularly worry about whether vigs miss or not. They chose a gun to have fun and I won't deny them that even when they inevitably fuck up.

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No, since I'm not scum I'm not stating my scum perspective here.
Cause I don't have one.
I can give you an idea of what I might try to do as scum here though, but I doubt you have a taste for it.

[Bell]

What a shitty wagon.

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Can we please, please eliminate dunstral instead.

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I'm not doing this thing where I'm just gunna watch this obvious miselimination go through.

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so your definitive tell is that if you're scum, you won't say "i'm town" all of the time?

I think my definitive tell that I'm town this game is my posts this game, together~

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Sorry why isn't that a good look given that we both flip green here and this makes you not look good?

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Like, I don't see how the town looks good here when we can't even get an elim through on somebody who's playing like dunstral this game.

While pretty much placing a vote on somebody that hasn't done a single real scummy thing this game.

This is just a bad day for town in a bad state and we're just in trouble dude.
If you can't smell this is bad. You need a new nose.

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Wow I have so many good choices this game.

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Yeah, Dunnstral I just don't think you're this contentless as town d1, I don't think the rest of the town and scum respond to you this way if you're town. There's insane fake ignorance, there's plenty of players that haven't posted much etc.
You usually have something. Or at least I hope you would maybe I have undue expectations.i

Do I really have to make a horrible guess between two people one of whom might be scum because they tried to pocket me/had to bullshit because they had partners already on my wagon.
This is so gross.

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@iconeum, Beeboy's gun game. The one where Norwe shot me and missed and then I shot Norwe and missed.
And then I can't remember if you tried to shoot me and then missed. I forget, I do remember you asking me to get vigged tho.
It was good times.

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Yeah, gunna just let this pass and give Mom a shot.

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Please shoot good.
Cause we're kind of in trouble if you don't shoot good.

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Nope. I'm not. I don't like either wagon and I've experienced enough of these situations that I just have better will power about this than I used to/have become a greater shithead who thinks he knows better than town.

I'm of course going to flip around here and say that it's a little weird to ever have a day 1 vig choice though. That takes some serious balls.

[Bell]

Please shoot good.
Cause we're kind of in trouble if you don't shoot good.

me?

Whoever they scum read. I'm town so I don't actually know who the scum are.

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VOTE: gun

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Secondary scum read, best I got. Sorry.

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Statistically scum post less and make longer posts.

Their wall spew seemed a little bit too much like they laid on a little thick that they didn't know who the scum were. Fence sitty reads.
Felt kind of like they were doing an autopsy of my interaction with Hiraki from a scum perspective.

[Bell]

Hey, am I town?

[Bell]

Something seems wrong.
But that's probably because of all the dead town and the loss of control.

Well, I'm here to support the rest of you guys.

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VOTE: Dunstral

This doesn't have much to do with the mass claim versus not mass claim thing.

If town shot their shot. I would like to know who and why.

[Bell]

VOTE: Dunstral

This doesn't have much to do with the mass claim versus not mass claim thing.

If town shot their shot. I would like to know who and why.

Reasoning for this? I know you said it isn't really about the mass claim but I think at first glance calling for it is a towny move, so you should have some reason for finding him scummy that overwhelms that.

I personally think he's just trying to regain momentum and control of the thread and to look good for a scum win instead of letting town eat itself rn and lurk out. If he kept lurking he would probably die anyway.

Pretty much, set up spec from older versions of this game grandpa'd into this one. Is my thought.

I'm not tunneled though, I definitely could be wrong here and I'm willing to talk about other reads, another analyses, other people's thoughts.

Last day phase, there wasn't much like play or work from other town.

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Hiraki's post by the way is very good.

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Esp. if he's scum and came up with that. Consider me totally fooled.

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Everybody that just died was town reading me.

Except Akarin.

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And I'm pretty sure it's just cause she's our next mis-elimination.

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Not convinced, 1 or more of those deaths weren’t 100% scum-directed

Until someone says otherwise, they are.

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Valid
What scum kills those 2 players, though?

Dunstral, Gun, Akarin, DGB, you.
Might ask or direct for any of those. Other scum players might be conscientious about it.

Look at the number of posts I have in this game. Do I seem like I don't want to be here.

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I'm also fairly certain that scum would want to front load on guns. Getting rid of problematic players asap just sounds like good play to me.
I realize the fact I'm not dead, might say something about the quality of my reads.
But more likely than not has more to do with being wagoned by a bunch of folk.

I don't think I'm going to be votable anymore though. Unless this town is truly bad.

[Bell]

All my scum games has significantly lower post counts than my town games. Because I have difficulty processing the game.
I might shit post to inflate, but my shit post to thinking post ratio is about right for me here. Also, my scum game is so bad I don't even know how to play day 2.

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Enough self-meta though.
someone else post something.

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It's a familiarity fear thing. I'm not great on NK analysis and don't plan to think about it too hard.

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Just hard enough to know that in general, my reads are correctish in terms of TR's and the scum team is thinking along similar lines.

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Some crumbs/implications about being able to read ABR later down the line. But otherwise clean when I thought more.

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I'm wifom'd on it.
DGB is not known for bad fake claims.

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I wouldn't know a good fake claim if it hit me in the head tho.

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I wouldn't know a good fake claim if it hit me in the head tho.

bulletproof vengefull?

Sounds OP, must be fake.

[Bell]

I wouldn't know a good fake claim if it hit me in the head tho.

bulletproof vengefull?

Excavator. I targeted Bell but was unable to clear his tunnel.

Please save this town if you're town.
I dunno if I can.

[Bell]

Tbh, it does to me.
If he hates being scum.
Didn't know he was thread avoiding but playing elsewhere.

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Gamma's nervous town imo.

VOTE: Umlaut

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I'd be fine with voting out johnny as of right now. Not sure about Gamma, Umlaut, Akarin

I'm upset with posts like this and you wonder why I'm tunneling you.

[Bell]

I wouldn't know a good fake claim if it hit me in the head tho.

bulletproof vengefull?

Excavator. I targeted Bell but was unable to clear his tunnel.

Please save this town if you're town.
I dunno if I can.

Why do you think town needs saving? I’m asking this with no preconceived opinion on the post.

Because last day phase was apathy town. Everybody seemed comfortable in their molds and their reads were wrong. Think of it from my perspective the majority of the votes were sitting on me (town) and then Mom got wagoned and I was fairly sure she was town that strong armed us into an alternative wagon. Or at the very least, let it happen. There just wasn't enough movement last day phase making this day phase difficult to read and parse previous day phase play probably leading to more inaccuracy.

[Bell]

*I meant that scum strong armed us unto a town wagon after realizing my wagon wasn't going to happen. *

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I'd be fine with voting out johnny as of right now. Not sure about Gamma, Umlaut, Akarin

I'm upset with posts like this and you wonder why I'm tunneling you.

For what?

Akarin doesn't feel like scum based on anything they've done and people are unfairly piling on them but I don't really know their alignment

IDK about Gamma and Umlaut. I don't even remember Umlaut being in the game

You just aren't hunting this game.
Sorry if I'm wrong.

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I don't feel great about anything rn tbh.

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It's hard to know the difference between scum compromising and town compromising at deadline.

My expectation Dunnstral is that you push at precisely one player as potential scum day 1 as town.

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I'm pretty sure Akarin/Gamma/Umlaut flip town, sorry.

Why are you pretty sure? /:

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What does that mean?

I'm wondering if you have good reasons to think all 3 are town or if you just really want Johnny dead rn.

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VOTE: JohnnyFarrar

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I have no strings and Hiraki seems okay to sheep because I think he's town this game.

I'm not sure if the scum team is stone face bus bluffing or if he's just town.
I didn't like who was voting him but then I realized that scum bus their buddies too and there's nothing to defend.

Hopefully, he is/was thread avoiding scum that had no clue what to post.
Hard to know.

[Bell]

@Hiraki, no. Don't gotcha me. I'm town.

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I just want good reasons to be comfortable with those slots.
And rn, I don't have good ones.

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You forgot to reduce the percentage to account for the town flips and his thread avoidance/inactivity.

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You forgot to reduce the percentage to account for the town flips and his thread avoidance/inactivity.

Was talking about tanner’s stance on why he voted mom

oh, my b.

[Bell]

what is this "something" that you want to do? flip akarin?

Possibly. I'm just getting into the game. I want reactions around what happened yesterday. I look big at the past to determine my future moves, so getting a read on A is a top priority for me.

I guess in the shortest possible sense. I was being wagoned and the two players directly defending me were Akarin and Momrangal.
I was town reading Mom, and didn't feel Akarin scum either, though with akarin I was much more paranoid about being buddied by scum.
Uncrowned was the other Bell defender and he died, while Albert P was more adjacent but working with my vote.

I was unhappy with the mom elimination not because of the gun claim, if anything I thought it weird to want to gun day 1 since there's barely any information, but rather because they replaced in, in a way I identified as town and starting moving the game along when she didn't really need to. I decided to just let her shoot and no eliminate, which is probably the first time I've ever done that as town. But meh.

[Bell]

Ultimately, other players that played closer to the rule book decided to eliminate there rather then Akarin.

There was a lack of major cases outside of me, scum seemed fairly satisfied with sitting on me and not doing anything to move the game forward. Since it was a fairly polarized wagon.

I would argue a key point that resulted in Mom getting killed over Akarin was Dunnstral pointing at all 4 players attacking her and noting that none of them had a case.
It's unclear to me whether this was wifom, he preferred Akarin to Mom simply because they knew each other from recent games, were scum partners or if he felt Akarin would have better positioning on him allowing him to live vs. Mom.

Lots of possible explanations there, I dunno which is true or if I missed some possibilities.

[Bell]

Ultimately, I still think Dunnstral is scum this game, but I wouldn't die on that hill because there are posts he's made that point away from it. One that particularly pointed away from it was him saying he would wait on Johnny to see how he would respond to pressure but then didn't and voted. this may depend on Johnny's flip for answers. Here or whethr it's a bus vote etc. I dunno.

I'd rather hit LCD scum RN.

[Bell]

Ya know, me Dunn and mom had a game where we were all scum together a few years back

What's Dunnstral scum look like?

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I'm okay with JFR.
I'll splash around if we're in trouble next game day.

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I haven’t read any of this game and I was hoping for scum lurk out slot to play this game

My pred picked a rose.

I’ll read through after work

Why were you hoping for a scum slot that had lurked out?

[Bell]

I miss Momrangel's replace in.

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Nah, it's cool. Momrangal just hit all the town notes which was a sweet siren song for nervous town Bell.
All u 3 hadn't rly solved out the gate at the time of that post and that wasn't comforting at all. Don't mind me.

[Bell]

I've given my reads and positions and feel lukewarm on every replacement.

Gamma town, Hiraki town.
Tanner, a weaker town lean.

Dunstrall scum.
JHF is more of a sheep read and a thread avoidance thing.
I am unhappy that umlaut repped out of a repped out slot.

I genuinely don't think I'm apathetic or letting this game stall. I've been responsive and proactive.
But I can't respond to nothing and I'm out of stuff to say.

[Bell]

Yeah, this game needs life.

Titus.

[Bell]

Dunstrall scum.

You seem more sure of this now than the last time you mentioned Dunn, why'd the read get stronger?

I'm not.

[Bell]

VOTE: Dunnstral

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E-1, I think.

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I too spent time with loved ones yesterday,

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Get dunnstrall, please and thank you.

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That was amazing.

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Do we have one scum left?
A true reversal of fortunes.