Guns & Roses V [Game Over]

[Mr Sandman]

Hello, all. I've come over from the artofproblemsolving forums as a few of us have been trying out the games here and have reported back positive things. Normally, we begin with some RQS, and so I'd like to propose that approach here to get things rolling:

1. What is your mafia experience like?
2. Do you prefer playing as mafia or as town?
3. How would you rate your scumhunting ability?

====

My own answers:

1. I've played in the region of 10 games.
2. I enjoy both for different reasons. For me, playing as town is more about solid logical play, whereas playing scum is more about emotional awareness.
3. Distinctly average. I think I often manage to identify one scum, sometimes two, but rarely an entire team by myself.

[Mr Sandman]

I will also VOTE: iconeum

DrippingGoofball, do you find that your preference for playing town leads to a difference in your approach?

Hiraki, so you would normally — or at least more often than not — end Day 1 voting for mafia?

[Mr Sandman]

Dunstral's scum btw.

I would like to know if this is a serious scumread.

====

On Hiraki and Bell

I don't really wanna engage on it. It feels like it will just result in a derail and suck up all the oxygen imo.
It might be good for you, but honestly, it isn't if you;re town so this feels like the right move from my perspective.

I initially thought this seemed like a towny thing to do -- to avoid a large conflict. However, I'm actually not sure it's as well-motivated as I believed. Take this:

Sorry, could you explain your point more clearly, I don't see where I picked a fight with Hiraki?
They voted me, I let them know that they voted wrong. If anything, i'm doing it so that they don't have the blood of the innocent on their hands if they're town.

Bell tries to frame his conflict with Hiraki as something not caused by him. But it seems that based on posts such as

lol.

Wow,
you uh.
You suck at this.

Bell is being at least somewhat inflammatory. Therefore, I'm not sure his comments about not wanting to engage come from a town reasoning. Instead, I think he may not want to engage in conflict because it will bring more attention to him, and this seems especially dangerous from a player like Hiraki who has already said that he more often than not is able to find mafia on D1.

VOTE: Bell

====

Hello, all. I've come over from the artofproblemsolving forums as a few of us have been trying out the games here and have reported back positive things. Normally, we begin with some RQS, and so I'd like to propose that approach here to get things rolling:

1. What is your mafia experience like?
2. Do you prefer playing as mafia or as town?
3. How would you rate your scumhunting ability?

====

My own answers:

1. I've played in the region of 10 games.
2. I enjoy both for different reasons. For me, playing as town is more about solid logical play, whereas playing scum is more about emotional awareness.
3. Distinctly average. I think I often manage to identify one scum, sometimes two, but rarely an entire team by myself.

1. Absolutely terrible. I fucking hate this game.
2. Yes
3. What

is

scumhunting? How does one

define

scumhunting?

Do I scumread RQS? Why yes, yes I do.

I am curious, Iconeum, about why you answered my RQS? Do you think that RQS is pointless?

Bell is pingy as well

Easily given townreads, refusal to engage when called out

bell had like 3 town and 1 scumread after 22 posts (total ingame posts this entire game had at that time)

these two were my thoughts pre much

and the little shot at RQS being scummy. idk if that was a joke or not but i generally think the same

The same question to you, Uncrowned. Do you think RQS is pointless?

====

To Tanner, Gún, and Rosé, is there any reason you didn't answer the RQS?

[Mr Sandman]

My apologies, I realise I failed to answer the counter-question from Iconeum on point 3. I would define scumhunting as the ability to identify and vote for scum. If you are consistently able to do this, whatever your methods, you are good at scumhunting. If you are not able to, then you have poor scumhunting skills.

[Mr Sandman]

♪

You're the cutest thing I've ever seen

♫

[Mr Sandman]

I asked because it seemed strange for you to at once dismiss it as scummy (in which case, it's a pointless tool) and yet to answer it at the same time (which would imply you think it has some utility).

I think one useful thing it's given us so far is that Bell described himself as not being very strong as scumhunting in his answer to point 3, but he seems to have been surprisingly confident in the reads he's given out so far. Particularly, if his read on Dunnstral was not a joke that's a strong incongruence.

[Mr Sandman]

Bell is being at least somewhat inflammatory. Therefore, I'm not sure his comments about not wanting to engage come from a town reasoning. Instead, I think he may not want to engage in conflict because it will bring more attention to him, and this seems especially dangerous from a player like Hiraki who has already said that he more often than not is able to find mafia on D1.

If he didn't want attention on him, he'd post less, surely

My point is more: I think we can reasonably expect that scum do not want to remain in the shadows all game because there's too much risk to being eliminated for not being seen to do very much. Therefore, there is a motivation to post and to try to appear as town. However, if you draw the ire of another player, you may not want negative attention focused on you and so you try to withdraw from things in the hope that new conflicts will emerge elsewhere.

[Mr Sandman]

Scum are more likely to roleplay too. I love getting into character when I'm about to put a knife in someone's back.

Does the multi-quote feature not work across multiple pages?

[Mr Sandman]

That quote should not be there. I just went through and selected everything I wanted to reply to but it seems to only have selected the most recent quote :/

[Mr Sandman]

there's no real point for scum to make 4 reads on page 1, because they know they will have to alter them. It's asking for trouble. While it did ping me, I don't think scum are coming out like this with reads on page 1.

This seems somewhat counterintuitive. If Bell is scum, then he knows he needs to provide reads. He might choose to hold off to allow those reads to seem more fully fleshed out, but if he’s aware that providing them early is likely to be dismissed as something mafia wouldn’t do, then that’s a strong incentive for him to provide them early. I think the fact they were on page 1 is probably not very indicative of his alignment.

To Tanner, Gún, and Rosé, is there any reason you didn't answer the RQS?

for now let's say i didn't feel like it.

@sandman, do you believe that someone being rude is AI (scum!indicative in this case)? i get the feeling that part of your scumread on bell is the read that he doesn't want to appear too in the background, but as soon as there's any attention on him he backs down. on second thought, do you think that's likely scum behaviour? i can't quite put my finger on it, but it seems like an... odd scum!mindset?

I think someone being rude is probably a feature of who that person is rather than their alignment. I would say maybe it is very slightly indicative of being town, but without knowing a person that’s no better than random. I think that’s quite likely from mafia, yes. Again, simply coasting out a game is not a way to win, you’re likely to just be eliminated for failing to do anything. It’s, at its best, a weak strategy. However, you also need to survive if you’re mafia. So if you piss off the wrong person, you have a strong reason to try to defuse things rather than using the conflict to try to get a better read on them or to use the situation of the conflict to try to get reads on the rest of the players e.g. how they position around the two of you.

[Mr Sandman]

Having a depression day. Will be back tomorrow.

Bell is probably town

I would like this explained further.

VOTE: Mr. Sandman
Too bad I missed RVS.

Likewise for this.

I should say that I was basically having the same thoughts as Bell on that first page.

Bell's my top townread.

And this too, specifically how you were also getting 3-4 townreads on page 1.

I think it's better if we don't claim at all in this game. We flip town or scum and keep playing. No claims. It just makes it too easy for scum to NK all the roses.

I think it's better if we don't claim at all in this game. We flip town or scum and keep playing. No claims. It just makes it too easy for scum to NK all the roses.

You don't think it's worth claiming Rose at E-1?

To weigh in on this — I’ve thought it over and I’d say ABR is generally correct. However, there are exceptions. If a Gun is about to be killed the day before they can shoot, it may be preferable to have them shoot the second-to-too suspect instead of killing them. I would also be reluctant to finish executing a rose if we were at the point of losing and there was only one mafia left (admittedly this scenario probably doesn’t come into play very often).

====

I am having trouble parsing Gún and Rosé’s posts.

[Mr Sandman]

Suspecting me and DGB seems more playstyle based since we are relics of almost 15 years ago. It has no merit.

Not really? You're being accused of doing nothing and then naked voting

I have been doing that worse that ABR, why am I

less

scummy? I should be more scummy.

I have never been as scummy as I've been in this game, I have earned the bottom spot.

I think that the way DGB is calling attention to herself for appearing scummy, but also using it to try to identify mafia, is probably something that town would do. I’m not sure scum would revel quite so much in calling themselves scummy, much less make use of that to actually scumhunt.

My vote on Sandman is serious, I didn't like his Bell vote post.

Could you explain why?

Uncrowned, how much is POE factoring into your reads?

I don’t understand what you mean here. How can he be working from POE at that point?

it took me... over 30 minutes to write this post. sigh.

"Hi there! I'm Rosé. I saw your transcript earlier and I like that you admitted this without shame, but could I ask why it took so long?"

hello! it happened that i sat down to type and realized nothing was coming to me as a response. sometimes it takes me a while to find inspiration in a game. do you have anything you think could help me find it?

I also like the admission of Tanner here. It seems like he doesn’t benefit very much from talking about having trouble writing as town, and it just opens him up to questioning about why that is. This would be more useful if he had answered the RQS though, as we might have a baseline with how it fits with his preferences for alignment.

[Mr Sandman]

Generally:

I like hiraki’s posting so far. Seems like he’s trying his best to scumhunt and I think he came out of his conversation with Bell looking a lot better.

I’m really struggling to care enough to read Gún and Rosé because of their roleplaying. I tentatively agree with ABR that this could be a form of obfuscation. I hope the gimmick is not going to last all game.

I think Akarin is quite likely to be mafia and could be a partner for Bell. She entered the thread sussing me but wi try out saying why beyond “I don’t like his post about Bell”. But she didn’t actually explain what she didn’t like.

I think DGB is likely to be town, and the same for Tanner, for reasons provided above.

Uncrowned, could you explain more about what you’re seeing in iconeum’s posting?

Bell is still coming across as scummy to me, and I’d like to see more from both of Johnny and Dunnstral.

[Mr Sandman]

If I didn’t mention you, I’m not sure about you or you haven’t made much of an impression on me yet.

Apologies for the multiple posts, the multiquote not working made this the easiest way of doing things.

[Mr Sandman]

Yes. I also don’t really understand what you were trying to say in that post.

[Mr Sandman]

And this too, specifically how you were also getting 3-4 townreads on page 1.

Tanner:

i am slightly +town on bell for post 16. it struck me as an anti-town thing to say, however it rings like one of those anti-town things that scum are less likely to say. if it's accurate, his post felt like a "warning" to scum about albert - that i imagine scum would probably keep to a scum pt.

Johnny:

Your answer sets you up to have to bus your buddies before you even know whether you want to or not.
Or at least vote them at inopportune times.

It's not very strong, rvs etc. But gut.

It wasn't 3-4 reads, where did you think the 4th was anyway? Bell immediately 2nd guessed the Hiraki read.

I think Bell looking at these things this way is town indicative of Bell. (And Tanner for similar reason.)

I don't know if I agree on the Dunn read or not but my ability to read Dunn off so little is probably compromised right now by things that have nothing to do with this game. I'll need more from him before I have a read.

It was an approximate remembrance of the total number of reads. I'm fairly sceptical of anyone being able to have a strong read off that amount of content, and given that Bell said that he's not particularly confident in his scum hunting ability it seemed contradictory that he coupled that with so many reads immediately given.

As I've mentioned, I wouldn't consider myself great at reads, and I certainly wouldn't consider myself confident to have multiple reads on multiple people before even a full page of content is produced.

I think Akarin is quite likely to be mafia and could be a partner for Bell. She entered the thread sussing me but wi try out saying why beyond “I don’t like his post about Bell”. But she didn’t actually explain what she didn’t like.

Why do you think scum is likely to come into the thread sussing you without saying why?

It's two different points. I think you would enter the thread sussing me if I am applying pressure to your partner. I think you would plausibly not give a reason because you have no reason (your motivation is protecting your partner) but you do have a strategic need/desire to sus me from the beginning.

I see we have three votes on Dunnstral, what’s up with that? I’ll probably catch up in the morning, unless I do it now.

Also I noticed while peeking in earlier there’s some complaints about roleplaying, I don’t plan to myself but I won’t discount it entirely. I do think the idea of it being a scum façade might hold weight though?

Welcome. I somewhat like this, but would note a couple of points: if dunnstral is scum, I think Gamma Emerald could be a partner. I also think that in that case it's likely the roleplayers are town.

[Mr Sandman]

Now, sorry for bein' off for a day or so... had a hunt that went all out of sorts, but I'm back. And since you guys seem like genuine hunters, I'll invoke a certain ritual that we're told rarely to touch...

Spoiler:

I will try to make my persona/character more 'readable' though I think that it is already if people genuinely do not like it that much. However, I'll also say that (and I suppose this is because I came into this game knowing I was going to play this sort of character) I find the read of 'roleplay as obfuscation' a very weak line of thought and easy pickings for people to post about in lieu of doing actual scumhunting.

This is much appreciated, thank you.

are the cases on gun and rose actually 'i won't read roleplaying, might as well flip them' or am i missing something?

I believe it is slightly beyond that -- of whether the roleplaying is designed to actually make their posts harder to read, which is something that would be likely motivated by their alignment(s). The fact that both are doing it makes that somewhat less likely, as it would be quite a stroke of luck if both were scum. However, their posts which are very role-play based are still harder to parse and in lieu of a clear scumread on someone else I would be open to voting there as I think it will be harder to sort them on later days compared to players with a better communication style.

i like Akarin

VOTE: Hiraki

Please explain why.

He's acknowledging the chimney boy is starting conflicts by being inflammatory, but also saying he's suspicious for trying not to engage in conflicts."

Upon hearing the comment from Rose, a man in a navy three-piece suit and a questionable top hat frowned, tapping his chin a couple times in thought. Of course, Rose and Gun would come to know of this man as Uncrowned, a regular presence in the town's guard and a man with a reputation that preceded him: Brave, charming, intelligent, observant, open-minded, honorable, loyal and most importantly - as modest as they came.

"Now, I wouldn't be so sure about that, friend."

he said, a dubious tone evident in his voice.

"That Mr. Sandman said a lot, but I'm not sure he was calling the conflict starting suspicious. The way he finessed his way out of that lil' scuffle, though? Now that was something I think out friend had real issue with, don't ya think?"

He took off his hat, whisking it into a bottomless bag strapped to his side. Now he truly reflected his name.

"Uncrowned, at your service. Some call me the Lone Ranger. Others a Keeper of the Peace. But me? Well..."

he chuckled.

"I just like to call myself the Hatless Man."

he said, the poor joke earning him little but for a tumbleweed that solemnly rolled across the otherwise unmoving scene.

"Pleasure to be acquainted, Mr. Hatless Man," Rosé paused for a moment, noticing the dubious tone that was evident in his voice.

"I noticed there's some dubious tone evident in your voice and this rather concerns me," Rosé hesitated, raising her eyebrows. "You question my prowess in investigating? I have a lot of experience over the years, Gún could certainly tell you! Anyways,

I think a large part of the vigilante-reporter's argument was that the chimney boy was attempting to avoid conflict, not wanting to antagonize the dusty peasant

. However, this was in fact not the case, as the little chimney boy

was

inflammatory at parts, which the reporter akwloedged in his column."

Rosé smiled and placed the tumbleweed back in her pocket, hoping the Lone Ranger hadn't noticed her roll it across the floor earlier.

This was not and is not my argument. My argument is that Bell was attempting to present himself as an active and dynamic player through being confrontational and feisty. His attempt to then immediately back off when that was met with pressure in return instead of with a townread is what was scummy. If the logic for the initial behaviour was "mafia would care more about being perceived well" that's still not a good reason to get into a powerful conflict with someone who is apparently a strong scumhunter on D1, therefore there was a lot of motivation for Bell to try to paint it as a TvT conflict from early on and to try to avoid it progressing into a more serious fight.

Uncrowned has a good reads list and seems towny.

what part of it is great? the one where you're my top SR, the other two SRs or the TRs?

This is a good point and I think another reason to be suspicious of Akarin. Would you consider voting for Akarin, Uncrowned?

Bell is pingy as well

Easily given townreads, refusal to engage when called out

Agree

I am curious to see what you make of Iconeum's later reversal of his position.

[Mr Sandman]

I asked because it seemed strange for you to at once dismiss it as scummy (in which case, it's a pointless tool) and yet to answer it at the same time (which would imply you think it has some utility).

I think one useful thing it's given us so far is that Bell described himself as not being very strong as scumhunting in his answer to point 3, but he seems to have been surprisingly confident in the reads he's given out so far. Particularly, if his read on Dunnstral was not a joke that's a strong incongruence.

Pretty sure Ico was giving troll answers.
As for Bell’s scumhunting ability, scumhunting and townhunting are distinct skills.

Oh. I suppose that could be true but I thought his later response to my question about why he bothered to do it implied that he was answering earnestly.

It was funny, really. For a brief moment our roles were reversed, Gún strategizing and willing me forward with her words of encouragement, and I taking the sword, or trident in this case; plunging it true into the werewolf's heart. A loud hissing sound and burrows of smoke marked the monster's demise, as the gleaming silver vaporized it's flesh and it's heart abruptly gave out.

I looked over at Gún shimmering delightfully in the moonlight. The full moon may give these creatures strength, but it paled in comparison to the beautiful bond we shared underneath it.

...

After this rude intrusion, we made our way over to our destination; The City of

G

u

n

s

a

n

d

R

o

s

e

s

. Quite the assortment of events had unraveled in the early hours of the morning. A loud and rowdy chimney boy named Bell had been picking fights across multiple taverns. He was full of fight and vigor that one, and Gún and I both took an early liking to him. His temper may be short and his passion high, but his thoughts and intentions seemed pure at heart.

A strange tiptoer going around town caught our eye. His nametag displayed Albert B. Rampage. We debated for a while on whether Rampage was his real name or if he just thought it sounded cool, and eventually agreed that the B probably stood for Barricaded, as that's how he felt in the way he carefully maneuvered around the town, talking about nothing more than his opinions on guns and roses.

We also had the pleasure of talking with the King of the city. Uncrowned was a commanding yet humble ruler, and his presence calmed both of our fears, giving us hope for this city's future yet, despite all of the horrible rumors circling around. Uncrowned had a good list of people he could trust, and suspects he was keeping an eye on, and we promised we would assist him any way that we could.

Finally, we came across a man who was staring very intently off into the center of town, his eyes on the city.

it took me... over 30 minutes to write this post. sigh.

"Hi there! I'm Rosé. I saw your transcript earlier and I like that you admitted this without shame, but could I ask why it took so long?"

This post is legitimately 10% content. This isn’t good on any level.

Agreed, in addition to the fact that I believe Rosé has been voting me throughout the day but has been doing so based on an argument that I never actually made and has not (I don't think, I have been struggling to get through the RP posts) tried to engage me about that.

Scum are more likely to roleplay too. I love getting into character when I'm about to put a knife in someone's back.

Does the multi-quote feature not work across multiple pages?

Yeah
What I do in situation where I’m trying to multiquote across several pages is I cut+paste each portion as I go along, by quoting everything I want to respond to on X page, writing my responses, and then I (assuming I have existing work in the clipboard) paste in stuff from previous pages, and select all + cut the whole text.

Thank you, but I think my current method of multi quoting everything from the page I'm looking it and posting multiple times in sequence is more manageable.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassandra

Why’d you do this unprompted? Seems a bit odd.

27 minutes til interview now seems like a good time to answer this.

Are you scum for asking this pointless question.
Or are you scum for weighing in on the hiraki/Bel interaction and deciding that one of us looks better than the other, instead of whether either of us are scum.
Though yes, town reading me for Wikipedia linking is silly.
Akarin got -town points for that.

@Sandman, just because I have terrible reads and am terrible at this game doesn't mean I have no playstyle. This is a pretty typical opening for me.

Dun hasn't budged.

VOTE: Akarin
VOTE: Gamma
VOTE: Dunstral

Meh on the fluff/to content Rose-to-gun-ratio.

Bell, I'm not considering you scum for your playstyle, unless you're saying that your playstyle is to provoke and then back-off immediately in which case maybe I am. I'm voting you because I think that your process of doing that could be for reasons that would benefit you-as-scum more than you-as-town.

Generally:

I like hiraki’s posting so far. Seems like he’s trying his best to scumhunt and I think he came out of his conversation with Bell looking a lot better.

I’m really struggling to care enough to read Gún and Rosé because of their roleplaying. I tentatively agree with ABR that this could be a form of obfuscation. I hope the gimmick is not going to last all game.

I think Akarin is quite likely to be mafia and could be a partner for Bell. She entered the thread sussing me but wi try out saying why beyond “I don’t like his post about Bell”. But she didn’t actually explain what she didn’t like.

I think DGB is likely to be town, and the same for Tanner, for reasons provided above.

Uncrowned, could you explain more about what you’re seeing in iconeum’s posting?

Bell is still coming across as scummy to me, and I’d like to see more from both of Johnny and Dunnstral.

What’s challenging about Gun’s posting? His roleplay seems pretty benign at this point, it’s essentially just at the level of flavor text. It makes his posts interesting but still intelligible.
I agree Hiraki seems like town. I get about the same vibe I remember of him from 2fold 2d3.
I think both Akarin and Bell might be scum, but I don’t think both are simultaneously rn.

I'm just struggling to parse it for the bits most relevant to actual gameplay vs the bits which are just being flavourful. I also have a limited amount of time to play and so having to try to do what feels like close reading of text just to find out what they think is frustrating.

Can you expound on why you don't think Akarin and Bell would be scum together? That seems perfectly likely to me. If they're not mafia together, which do you think is more likely to be mafia? And would you be willing to vote there with me?

[Mr Sandman]

I got the job.
Probably hopefully.

Congratulations!

Well it probably doesn’t mean much but I’m still curious.

The best I have for you is that I'm a little more creative and experimental when i roll town so, expect some variance?
This is what I mean tho, it's weird that you don't expect me to vary somewhat. Rather this is the kind of "They're DIFFERENT!" surface shading I would expect from scum, but, not, ya know town.
Though I did notice the Dunstral WKING which is very much town you. So that's conflicting information that.

In the scenario that dnnstral /is/ town this sounds very much like a case of being informed. It's notable that the general perception of dunnstral is that he's neutral/scummy (I find him fairly neutral) so why is Bell calling out gamma's defending of dunnstral as white knighting and not as scum defending a buddy. I like Gamma Emerald so far, but dunnstral being scum would certainly make me reconsider that.

But I thought we were all agreeing that having thoughts on page 1 was for scumlords!

Buddying detected.
Are you my town buddy or a scumbuddy.

Obviously your scum buddy.

^This interaction seemed very forced to me and following on from that:

As for why Dunstral, it's RVS and whatever my reasons are they are by definition bad reasons because it's RVS.

Basically tho, it's cause he voted out the gate and has been awkward ever since.

Just need ABR and DGB to chime in on this now

Aw, yes.

Buddy/buddy interaction.

Bell noticed AWKWARD because buddies always sound awkward. And then when he noticed a little bit too much awkward, he started bus'ing on day 1 to trade a liability for some town cred.

I wonder if it'll work.

DGB, did you not feel the same way about the Bell/Akarin interaction above? To me it looks a lot like two people who think they need to have interaction in thread but don't really have anything to talk about regarding the game or solving, so post fluff and jokes between themselves.

[Mr Sandman]

How have I been awkward?

Imagine going to a potluck and you're the only one that didn't bring anything.

This is a non-answer

Yes. How would you feel about voting here?

I've RVS "scumread" Dunnstral for a while.... I am not voting for him now and I haven't decided where I want to vote yet.

May I suggest voting for Bell?

[Mr Sandman]

I can’t tell if sandman is fake tunneling or not.

How is this a tunnel? Thinking you are scum does not, by default, mean that I am tunnelled.

[Mr Sandman]

I think my main suspects would all be contained within:

Bell, Akarin, Rosé, Iconeum, JohnnyFarrar

[Mr Sandman]

Dunnstral is more on the neutral side to me than the actively scum side. There's also the fact that things seem to be defaulting towards his execution and I would imagine that scum would be trying to resist that, whereas I am not seeing a lot of pressure on any of the people I suspect.

[Mr Sandman]

Why would I spend a lot of time entertaining you not being scum when that's my most likely prediction for the game? But, that being said, it's possible that Akarin could be white knighting you there, as could Rosé. Iconeum I would need to re-evaluate but mostly he seems to be very flexible in what he believes and I'm not sure the reasons really add up, with one example being his change on you, another being his sheep vote on Hiraki. JohnnyFarrar has done truly nothing (not even push back at anyone) and could be scum who just doesn't know what to do.

You are not the top wagon, dunnstral is. Therefore, dunnstral is the counter wagon to you trying to be wagoned. I suppose if you are town the chances of dunnstral being scum and piggybacking onto your wagon are possible, but that seems unlikely as it's currently only me and Hiraki, who I think are both town, and who scum are not that keen to see go through.

I think there seems to be a reasonable amount of interest in dunnstral, the votes just haven't followed yet? If he's the compromise candidate, which is how it seems, there's no need for scum to run the wagon up early if they feel confident that he'll be compromised on in the end.

[Mr Sandman]

Dunnstral is more on the neutral side to me than the actively scum side. There's also the fact that things seem to be defaulting towards his execution and I would imagine that scum would be trying to resist that, whereas I am not seeing a lot of pressure on any of the people I suspect.

How are they defaulting towards his execution when I have more votes than him?

This is untrue as of the last VC I saw.

Dunnstral is more on the neutral side to me than the actively scum side. There's also the fact that things seem to be defaulting towards his execution and I would imagine that scum would be trying to resist that, whereas I am not seeing a lot of pressure on any of the people I suspect.

Uh, aren’t you suspecting me. Am I not under pressure?

I am, I mean aside from me (and Hiraki). There seem to be a lot of people suspecting dunnstral or at least nobody calling him town other than maybe Gamma Emerald. You do have a number of supporters helping to alleviate pressure from me and Hiraki. In the case that today is a compromise, it seems more likely that the person nobody town reads will be executed than the person that some people do.

[Mr Sandman]

Note to self: need to finish catching up on pages 14-17 inclusive.

I have to go now. I may be available again tomorrow.

[Mr Sandman]

VOTE: momrangal

Unsure if I’ll be back before deadline.

E-1, I believe.

[Mr Sandman]

I don’t see what makes this an obvious miselimination at all. Frankly, I’d prefer Akarin but looking at the last VC there’s only 4 votes there and I don’t want to risk not executing. Momrangal has a weak ISO, and her vote on me makes very little sense with her stated progression.

All she’s done is defend you (not a good look) and push akarin (actually quite a good look) until akarin becomes viable as their alternative wagon at which point her decision is to try to start a 3rd wagon (pretty inexplicable unless she never really wanted akarin to die today).