Epilogue! - [Endgame]

[Gamma Emerald]

YOU THOUGHT YOU COULD KEEP ME OUT BY RUSHING THE SIGN-UPS BEFORE I NOTICED HUH
I will be present for to completion of this saga.

[Gamma Emerald]

so like can I get a tl;dr of this game because the last couple times I have repped into FG games I've either drifted away due to not understanding the situation (one of the guns and roses games) or had to employ alternate tactics to get somewhat current with the game events (the last iteration of this series)

[Gamma Emerald]

so like can I get a tl;dr of this game because the last couple times I have repped into FG games I've either drifted away due to not understanding the situation (one of the guns and roses games) or had to employ alternate tactics to get somewhat current with the game events (the last iteration of this series)

first can you go into your pt and tell us what bell has posted so far

a lot, in fact there's 4 pages rn
Bell looks like town off of it

[Gamma Emerald]

so like can I get a tl;dr of this game because the last couple times I have repped into FG games I've either drifted away due to not understanding the situation (one of the guns and roses games) or had to employ alternate tactics to get somewhat current with the game events (the last iteration of this series)

tl;dr: pooky was scum and left out of the dance, DGB/DD were town and got voted out, ISIS is IC

I can find that all on the first page
I WANT DETAILS

[Gamma Emerald]

click on activity overview and tell me how many posts are bell

can I just state a percentage

[Gamma Emerald]

Bell has like 54% of the posts
Tay/me has 46%

[Gamma Emerald]

ok what

[Gamma Emerald]

uh, so is that percentage

is it relative to a big number of posts overall?

bell did say he was spamming his pt when he got it

I did just say 4 pages
like jesus I know I'm not reading but would it kill you to?

[Gamma Emerald]

dude I don't have the fucking mental cpacity to be answering for my partner rn, let me actually fucking settle into the game first

[Gamma Emerald]

like throwing a deluge of questions at me first thing just feels like trying to overwhelm me and I quite distrust it

[Gamma Emerald]

tbh I think the way Bell and Tay jammed is pretty town indicative for the two? Like, that balanced post count is similar to my neighborhood with Blitzo in mini 2170, where despite feeling much less driven to participate blitzo still kept up with my post count.

[Gamma Emerald]

what is thread consensus on beeboy

[Gamma Emerald]

k

[Gamma Emerald]

gamma catches up

Not happening. I'm going Pine mode.

[Gamma Emerald]

yes
that's why I asked about beebs

[Gamma Emerald]

gamma can we just yoink you and bell tbh

what is bell talking about in that sekrit pt of yours

no, we're probably both town

[Gamma Emerald]

gamma when was the last dance game that you scumread your partner

probably the first one I played?

[Gamma Emerald]

oka stfu and let me answer this shit in my own time

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm glad Gamma is townreading Taylor.

I was effectively stating the interactions were T/T in order to express that I think Bell is town off of them

[Gamma Emerald]

gamma when was the last dance game that you scumread your partner

probably the first one I played?

ok you know that we partnered in starry night and you were like the only one who townread me right? sometimes it really do be like that anyways i need that favor

also bell i had a whole segment of begging for my own death but currently i am under the chilling effect

so you're saying everyone SRs you
tbh it seems everyone SRs either you or FB in reality? So like, I'll read both of you and if BOTH of you look like town I'll defend y'all
but like, I can't do it as confidently if I just townread you because I don't have the advantage of being paired with you myself to know your partner is town

[Gamma Emerald]

look gamma i think your probably town by like im saying bell might be scum and i don't really care if you think he is town or scum because we are all biased towards thinking our partners are town, id just like a rundown on his pt please and thank you lets not repeat gay dance where mysteriously everyone was clearing their partners because the pt was so fantastic except the t-t pairs

ok
do you have substantial evidence to refute my claim about the balanced posting being indicative of a T/T pairing (or maybe it's just stupid or something but until I fuck up off of that I'm gonna roll with it barring situations where I don't think it's the primary metric I should use bluh words)

[Gamma Emerald]

okay yeah I'm definitely full of shit

[Gamma Emerald]

I will ventually
bugging me about it is just gonna make me like you less

[Gamma Emerald]

thats why me and oka only use our pt to tell a story.

Ohhh now you’ve made me angry.

[Gamma Emerald]

viewtopic.php?f=56&t=72677&start=2250

what is this fire what do i see

Man I didn’t even remember that one

[Gamma Emerald]

hectic me voting you actually raises your chance of living interestingly enough so please fight this one out

My scumelans are Bell and Firebringer. The Bulge is nullscum, and I have no read on MariaR.

It'd probably feel better more worthwhile to fight this if I could push somewhere, but where?!@? You and Tayl0r are towny, so I don't know what the optimal play is

What’s the scum plan in that situation?

[Gamma Emerald]

Shelly used my word

I can’t see “leafraking” without thinking of “mudraking”

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't want to sink more effort into this game if we're going to die anyway, which I'm like 80% sure we're going to right now.

i can try be the town version of noraa D1 in death curse

Can I ask what the fuck happened in that game

[Gamma Emerald]

Oh wow Fakedog fixed the breaking strategy I pointed out I could swear that wasn't there before.

How much town equity do Hectic and shelly get for this. I feel like they get some??

Wait there’s a breaking strat

[Gamma Emerald]

How many posts did beeboy have before forming his pairing?

[Gamma Emerald]

b) Bell and Pooky were scum so town!Taylor had no choice, and Pooky was willing to sacrifice himself

obv this is the only universe I can entertain outside of d but I think there is a non-zero chance of this

[Gamma Emerald]

@gamma he had 36 posts.

kewl

[Gamma Emerald]

like for real reading through pooky's iso there is a definite turn from meme-y to the diary of a depressed widow in 18th century england

my rule for reading pooky these days is if you can form a thread of logic for why pooky is doing what he is, he is scum
XD

[Gamma Emerald]

I gave individual reads, not my fault all pairings have a scummer and a towner inside them.

this is flat out impossible >:/

[Gamma Emerald]

You think shelly here looks like she did in Death Curse? Her play is light and day.

Tayl0r is an obvious townread in that she opted to let Pooky die.

What's not genuine about those reads?

but you also think Bell is scum
what's so towny about Taylor picking Bell!scum over pooky!scum?

[Gamma Emerald]

I think you're town for the attempt, fwiw

[Gamma Emerald]

No matter how I look at it, I can't imagine a world where both Gamma and Bell town it up enough that I'm free enough of paranoia about both of them as far as the end of pre-dance stuff with Pooky goes. As much as my actual scumread is more on TaylorEmerald, it's actually Bell that makes me more paranoid, with Pooky's seeming to just give up at the end there.

I did replace in so I have minimal attachment to this game p much, so if you wanna lim me for paranoia or whatever, fine, but I also don’t want it to feel cheap? Like you need to define whether you actually think there’s a chance me or Bell is scum, or what you’re paranoid about

[Gamma Emerald]

objectively i don't think it's gamma. like, giving up your scum partner (who is like, quite good at being charming/good at pocketing, and probably moreso than bell?) for a town person, and then having to rely on said townperson to towntell enough that people can accept you moving onward? that's a big fucking gamble to make, you know? and if you're picking your scum partner out of two, i... personally, i think it makes more sense to pick the person who might be able to get townread more, yeah? (not to disparage you bell!!)

This is a good thought process imo

[Gamma Emerald]

Ydrasse is town
Akarin probably is too

[Gamma Emerald]

not!lastpair probably is mariabulge, okaFB

not sure about others

Why Claire + bulge

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah Bell has a point
That’s a rather circuitous way of expressing that idea

[Gamma Emerald]

btw, Gamma, can you please be sure to

never

give your top-non-Isis town read pair until after the Intermission?

Sure

[Gamma Emerald]

Because you can imagine them being last pair?
Why?

At this point it feels like you're just being deliberately dense.

You’re being obtuse, unintentionally.

[Gamma Emerald]

FB if your read on me is based on my predecessor I won’t be mad. I promise.

[Gamma Emerald]

Imo solving the LAST PAIR should really start happening around second dance? That’s where I’ve always noticed that discussion picking up in last games.

[Gamma Emerald]

as fun as it is to argue about theory, i just want to jump in here and ask for a full readslist from you bell

Oka
Gamma
Deleuz-Dunstral.
Shelly
MariaR
Firebringer
Akarin
Hectic


??? Beeboy. Bulge


#3340 he did say he enjoyed it.

Why are Akarin and hectic so low

[Gamma Emerald]

:/
Why shouldn’t we lim
We’ve already done so once so this seems like a bridge too short.

[Gamma Emerald]

But like, the idea is tainted now >:/

[Gamma Emerald]

No Dragalia avi because it doesn’t exactly feel right rn. But Sunny D Pipple is saved to my phone for future use if I want to use it again.
Current one is from Homestuck.

And like, could you walk me through the optimal part of no limming that isn’t ruined atp?

[Gamma Emerald]

If there was a super obvious consensus T-T pair we could just be like "nothing we do changes the NK" and would just get to spilling wine

Ok this might be fair

[Gamma Emerald]

also I ISO'd akarin and have come to the conclusion that i may or may not have already messed up

How

[Gamma Emerald]

Actual issues with Bell/Gamma

Bell's number of posts and lack of actually saying much.

Bell's aggressive sewing confusion and shading this rather than really arguing with it.

Taylor's "let's look at who was off-wagon" thing.

I don't think FB is totally nuts about being ignored by Taylor in the first half of the game.

Okay I don’t think I mind getting limmed sooner rather than later. I wanna take a stab at solving the game first though.

[Gamma Emerald]

and i just was in a game where i was partnered with gamma and i think he's distinctly different here

Oh my, do tell me more!

[Gamma Emerald]

also oka i dont get why you're being so insistent on this and its kinda weirding me out

Yea oka has been going Perry Mason on me this game it’s disturbing

[Gamma Emerald]

Oka is town

Also, I’m mena

owo

[Gamma Emerald]

I think there are similarities and differences to MBoS 10 so I’m curious about your take there

[Gamma Emerald]

okay i think hectic was scum def now.

chemist like copying his read on me.

btw who does thaat

Or he could have the same thoughts on you
Does that not occur to you, or is it inconvenient to consider?

[Gamma Emerald]

okay i think hectic was scum def now.

chemist like copying his read on me.

i got asked to state hectic's reads and that's what i did???

how is that copying

le deeeeetp

[Gamma Emerald]

If the lim on me and bell goes through and bell is town I want Oka and FB to die soon after
FB is throwing out pisspoor reads and Oka is assaulting everyone who replaces in

[Gamma Emerald]

Isis can I discuss last pair choice anywhere? Or are my no-go’s the only even vaguely acceptable topic broaching that subject?

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Firebringer
I like this half less, but I wanna say their combined reaction was super-bad, no engagement, just smear tactics

[Gamma Emerald]

What wrong claim did I make about PT dynamics, the post balance thing? I was acknowledging from the first beat that I was possibly full of shit. I didn’t intend to lie about anything there, and it feels disingenuous to call me a liar about that subject. If it’s not that, then what the hell is it about?
And as for the pressing replacements thing, I feel like you’re more likely just gonna make the person clam up, like I did. So if you’re expecting slips, let me be proof positive your plan won’t work.

[Gamma Emerald]

“Or maybe I’m just stupid”
Yeah that’s totally the words of someone mindlessly gong with a foolish idea.

I had the thought and put it up for discussion, and was disproven, and then I accepted I was wrong. The thing you probably don’t get is that I invited people to disprove me, to spare myself the trouble of a full scientific analysis. I wasn’t going to bother checking my own work so I made overtures to ensure others would. The behavior I demonstrated was designed to elicit an urge to prove me wrong. It’s way easier to let someone throw out a key contradiction to my claim than to try to hunt down the evidence from a plethora of 2 person hoods.

[Gamma Emerald]

What wrong claim did I make about PT dynamics, the post balance thing? I was acknowledging from the first beat that I was possibly full of shit. I didn’t intend to lie about anything there, and it feels disingenuous to call me a liar about that subject. If it’s not that, then what the hell is it about?
And as for the pressing replacements thing, I feel like you’re more likely just gonna make the person clam up, like I did. So if you’re expecting slips, let me be proof positive your plan won’t work.

i mean im okay with the person clamming up? i don't really see why you see this as a problem?

Let’s say I were scum and you wanted me to slip. By instantly putting me under the knife, I switch to defense mode, being extra careful about what I say and do. Why do you think scum!me lets a single fucking thing slip after being shown via action that the situation is not safe in the slightest?
If you want people to slip you need to put them at ease. The questioning is not the problem, it’s the method. You need to ask your questions in a polite manner and not badger the person when they don’t immediately answer.

[Gamma Emerald]

Eh. I felt like Oka’s methods didn’t match with the practical results. But I think there’s a point in how some people react differently. What portion of players do you think would react in the way you’d be able to sort, Oka?

[Gamma Emerald]

Eh. I felt like Oka’s methods didn’t match with the practical results. But I think there’s a point in how some people react differently. What portion of players do you think would react in the way you’d be able to sort, Oka?

Gamma, okay, I didn't want to continue this conversation partially because I realize I misunderstood you but also now I have to ask:

Did I really ask you of something to elicit this strong emotional reaction? Like I don't feel like I asked any hard questions? I just wanted shit on the PT, that's all. There is a burden of work, yes, but like... cmon. It's a dance game.

I was going to provide, just on my own time. IRL I hate being pressed to do something one a stricter timetable than I myself want to. I could talk on this at length but it’s be a lengthy title about IRL stuff so I’ll spare the details, but know not doing it now doesn’t mean I’m never doing it.
So the emotional reaction probably comes from experiencing the same thing you’re doing IRL and having bad memories of it.

[Gamma Emerald]

Like, I got super duper annoyed with you ten times.
I just know not to get mad at people who I think are prolly town.

Gamma asked me to push you both so I just did.
My heart isn't really in it tho. I still think you're town.
Or at least, pretty good scum.


Pedit: Are you Noraa, that's about as damning as a marshmellow.

You don’t have to be convinced someone is scum to push them. Oka does have decent motives here. It’s just not exactly the type of deal I cotton well to, and in my displeasure I probably mistook town impetus for scum malice. To be specific, Oka’s play to push me is similar to what I wanted you to do. Oka and me both wanted to push people to get them to generate content. I just sorta took a half-passive approach, by encouraging you to do it alongside me rather than do it alone.

Also, I don’t think Bell expresses doubts here as scum, the play would probably be to feed my suspicion. Bell is definitely taking a mediator role here.

[Gamma Emerald]

why did you ask bell to push me and not duel me 1v1

Because two people equals more pressure. Seems obvious to me.

[Gamma Emerald]

bell why did you consent to helping gamma push me when im your top townread

@gamma okay what happened to your theory about knives and being nice

That’s for when people are replacing in or in a similar position of not being fully keyed in to the situation. Pushing someone in that situation puts them on the back foot which taints their posting. Once they are given a chance to post naturally that’s when the knife can be revealed.

[Gamma Emerald]

Actually I did have the Pipple for quite some time
That lasted in one form or another from like mid August to a couple weeks ago
And FYI I don’t think Sunny D Pipple was significantly off putting compared to standard Pipple

[Gamma Emerald]

I wish SIMYK would return someday

[Gamma Emerald]

SIMYK is a person who plays here
If you’re trying to look up Pipple, it’s from an anime-esque game

[Gamma Emerald]

So, Maria, Deleuze, Ydrasse,

What do you 3 think of Oka's exchange with Shelly around post 3461?

shel sus

[Gamma Emerald]

If this series persists past this iteration I’d like leaving to be modified so it involves two players modifying their pairings and leaving their previous partners behind
Just a random thought I had

Also 1 day is enough for a cfd probably

[Gamma Emerald]

MariaR how caught up are you?

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t think I wanna lim MariaR/Bulge rn

[Gamma Emerald]

Sure
Why?

[Gamma Emerald]

mechanically/theoretically, 100%. Pragmatically, considering town enthusiasm and deadline utilization, like 65% sure

I think everyone should pursue their own agenda for now probably, no matter if we can't unite just yet. After the night comes we'll be able to synchronize our ideas more effectively I think.

[Gamma Emerald]

i totally understand not wanting to get eliminated. I think if ur town u would go for ur highest scumread instead of conceding to no elim tho. So i kind of want u to commit to voting us or shellyc. Not voting here isn't helpful imo.

The thing is outside of your pair none of the leading pairs are particularly enticing.

[Gamma Emerald]

Vote gamma for he stands for what is right.

Ha! So you admit to treacherous motives!

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Bell

Is this really the road we're treading here?

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma is prob town btw but Bell has a chance of flipping scum

crap take
imo Bell might be the townier of our pair
Bell definitely had a chance to pocket me but denied it in full, at least in the way I had opened myself to.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: MariaR
I think my willingness to trust this pair was a bit excessive in the first place.

[Gamma Emerald]

It's not a specific post. It's just that I don't sense any of the hallmarks of a reliable townread on the Bulge slot when I think back to why I TRed him. It was all mind and no heart. And I pretty much decided to defer reading MariaR until post-intermission when I tried initially.

[Gamma Emerald]

The number of questions mostly

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay, sure, thats a bad way to TR someone though and makes me weirded out.

It seems like you're working backwards to find a "reason" for your trajectory there.

That's just how shitty the original read was lol

[Gamma Emerald]

attention citizens

It is likely, fortunately or unfortunately, we are heading into the night without a second elimination. This is a good and a bad thing! As we mull things over regardless whether we get a second flip or not, I would like everyone to take the following actions:

i wrote this for pagetop but it happened yooo

Think about who you want to send to endgame, what pair are you confident is T/T enough to win it all? And please, don't pick your own pairing. That's a recipe for disaster.

Additionally, think of what pairing holds scum, and what certain flips mean for you. We will need to act fast and decisively as a unit, votes will be flying, and if we want to maintain some semblance of decorum and avoid chain deaths, we will need to be highly proactive and ready to move. Better to think during the night than think on the spot.

But also I know it'll be tempting to talk to your partner about all of this, but I plead with you, don't. We don't want to help scum aim the shot, so let's not talk about our reads. There are up to three people and at least one person who's been utterly bamboozled and in a PT with scum, don't be the person who breaks social distancing and tries to interact, gotta keep it contained.

Remember what has happened so far. Pooky has flipped scum, DGB and DD have flipped town. This game has been fast and if you take time to review things, you might be able to catch something we all missed or have forgotten, we really should have had more info than we do after 3 flips, but for whatever reason, we don't. Odds are we missed some big lead or forgot about something. Don't be afraid to bring it up when day breaks.

And if by some miracle, I do pass into the underworld. Remember that deadlines can be deceiving. We need to move fast ASAP. We should be aiming to eliminate quickly because otherwise, we will lose on time. People will be busy and coordinating things in a forum setting is a pain in the ass, its best to be prepared for the worst. And yes, suicides can be a good thing. Just know in your decision making tree, eliminating your own pairing is half as good as eliminating some other pairing. So at the very least if you are to leave, know that you must be twice as confident as you would normally be in that you are either a) hitting scum or b) this is the right choice.

I don't like what this alludes to, I think.

[Gamma Emerald]

beeboy, I've given you a pass on Isis' behest but now there's no excuse. Give content or get in the coffin.

[Gamma Emerald]

honestly that pair dying was a mercy for me because they were very out of focus imo

[Gamma Emerald]

also why are we trying to have 2 endgame pairings still
now that it's post intermission we only need 1 as long as we are confident it's T/T

[Gamma Emerald]

WHY THE FUCK IS IT ME OVER BELL???????????????????????

[Gamma Emerald]

How was tay scummy????

[Gamma Emerald]

boi don't FUCKING dodge this

[Gamma Emerald]

Because I wanna know you're not blowing smoke

[Gamma Emerald]

And that's a bit ridiculous isn't it? NOTHING I DO will change the read on MY PREDECESSOR???? SEEMS A BIT FUCKING TUNNELED, NO?!?!?!?!?!??!??

[Gamma Emerald]

You sure seem content to ride the idiot wagon today, mate.

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah but ONLY TOWNIES HAVE FLIPPED, at least wrt the relevant prtions of the game!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Use more than a single brain cell fucknuts!!

[Gamma Emerald]

okay??? You're doing gambler's fallacy rn

[Gamma Emerald]

And like, presence of scum on my wagon does NOT determine MY alignment, like you seem to think

[Gamma Emerald]

for all intents and purposes the alignments of the voters are random for this argument
You are saying 2 town flips and your town POV makes the wagon a town one on scum. That's not true, and even if it were that's doesn't you're not all just wrong

[Gamma Emerald]

I struggle to see how you can be this fucking basic in your logic rn

but SERIOUSLY
If you have no read on me personally,

WHY ARE YOU NOT TRYING TO GET A READ OFF OF ME AND JUST PUSHING ME OFF MY PREDECESSOR

????????????????????

[Gamma Emerald]

unless u want to argue im scum then u can't pretend i have no alignment. So if u want to counter my argument by doing so, do so. But assuming i am town u saying it is invalid because it is, isn't a argument.
How is it invalid? Why did scum not want to vote ur pair when i pushed so heavily for it. I was literally spamming for it.

Maria/BUlge seemed to have greater sentiment against it
Also, again, why isn't Bell a possibility at all? I know I'm town, so arguing it HAS TO be me is a fucking No Sell, aqnd your reasoning today amounts to "I'm only reading you off of tay but I won't tell you because ur scum NYEHYGNBMJ>H"

[Gamma Emerald]

i don't know how much i can repeat "I can't read u" and for u to repeaat "Why u not trying". Do u not think ive tried in the past? I don't trust any method of reading u. I am not gonna bother with it.

This is such a fucking crock of shit
Why can't you read me? I don't recall you ever touting THIS specific philosophy?
And why does not being able to read me = just assuming I'm scum? LIke, it REALLY FUCKING FEELS LIKE you're doing the SAME STUPID SHIT mena did in pokemon ruby mafia where he BSed a scumread on me for MY PREDECESSOR'S PLAY!!!!!!!!

[Gamma Emerald]

unless u want to argue im scum then u can't pretend i have no alignment. So if u want to counter my argument by doing so, do so. But assuming i am town u saying it is invalid because it is, isn't a argument.
How is it invalid? Why did scum not want to vote ur pair when i pushed so heavily for it. I was literally spamming for it.

Maria/BUlge seemed to have greater sentiment against it
Also, again, why isn't Bell a possibility at all? I know I'm town, so arguing it HAS TO be me is a fucking No Sell, aqnd your reasoning today amounts to "I'm only reading you off of tay but I won't tell you because ur scum NYEHYGNBMJ>H"

i have never said it can't be bell. I think its u. I have said this to bell where i said i think he is town. I think the end game of yesterday proves ur pair has scum and my inclination is u because of previous reasons.

WHY NOT TRY TO CONVINCE ME THEN?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!!?!??!!?!?!?!?!?!?

[Gamma Emerald]

Not in every game though
And as I said, maybe if YOU ACTUALLY ATTEMPTED IT YOU'D ACTUALLY HAVE SOME SUCCESDSS?:"??"
YOU SDEEMME COPNBTRNTY TO SIU*T THETRER EWITH SA SHITay aREAD ON MY SLO0T

[Gamma Emerald]

leave dance

whatever. If we're both town I expect you to zip your fucking lips any time you THINK you know what the fuck is going on

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm town
I just didn't see any way to play here that didn't involve me tilting until I lost my mind, so I just gave up on staying in the game

[Gamma Emerald]

because a) you're the only one active rn and b) I felt like you were saying something that made sense so I wanted to actually be reasonable, but you just pissed on my attempts

[Gamma Emerald]

make sure to trust oka's input y'all

[Gamma Emerald]

leave dance

whatever. If we're both town I expect you to zip your fucking lips any time you THINK you know what the fuck is going on

You realize if you're both town he's probably scum right

Yes
But if he’s town I wanted to issue that statement

[Gamma Emerald]

I still think mariar dunn should have won Valentine's Dance

Nobody should have won that. Everyone threw.

[Gamma Emerald]

For a game I invested minimal time into this turned out alright.