Grand Idea GPick [Game Over]


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Post Post #2154 (isolation #200) » Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:56 pm

Post by Bingle »

In post 2134, Starbuck wrote:You're in love for Day (insert # here). Private Topic will conclude at the end of Day (insert same # as before here).
Just because I can't help myself and my goddamn self flagellation: this doesn't actually preclude Titus' role working as the Pheremone seeder PM says it should.

You would already have not died the previous night, and so notifying you that you didn't die the previous night would be redundant. You would not have had a PT the previous night as the mod wouldn't have known if a theoretical roleblocker targeted Titus until the end of the night, and to resolve it during the night would confirm there was no way a roleblocker could stop the action, which would be a major mod error.

But more importantly and the point that you've completely ignored several times now, the question isn't how you interpreted your results PM. The question is how Titus interpreted her role PM. And anyone with eyes can agree that the role Titus claimed to have functions as a pseudovig. If she's lying about having that role, then she is necessarily not a Pheremone seeder and so she has a different role which functions similarly but distinctly to the role that only exists as scum that she claimed to have rerolled into for *reasons* when she could have just as easily rerolled into whatever her actual role is.

Farside, at least, has tried to explain why she thinks using the role the way Titus has is scummy. You just continually shout "BUT SHE'S LYING" when it doesn't make any sense at all that she would, regardless of whether she was town or scum.

And yes. I will defend to my dying breath against shitty lynches because that's how you win the game as town. You don't make shitty lynches.
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Post Post #2155 (isolation #201) » Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:59 pm

Post by Bingle »

In post 2151, Morning Tweet wrote:
In post 2142, Starbuck wrote:
In post 2099, Morning Tweet wrote:Bingle and I were right to want to let hellbooks resolve herself and lynch within the pool that had to include the dealer, imo. Hellbooks could have been lyncher.
Nope, still wrong. Deadscum is the way to have gone here, especially with as many townies dead as there were. You both are scummy AF for still defending this stance with all that "WE WANT TO LYNCH GROUPSCUM, GUYZ." Then we lynch groupscum and we're all still wrong for it? Nah, y'all are too hypocritical for my liking.
[No, killing third parties when a bunch of town is already dead is a great way to become overwhelmed by groupscum. And i dont know how many groupscum there are. I can tell we fundamentally disagree on this so i don't really think we should argue about it]

[I don't understand how its scummy of us, either. I'd probably never bring it up again if i were scum.]
There are between 1 and 5 scum in the largest remaining groupscum faction.
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Post Post #2176 (isolation #202) » Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:24 am

Post by Bingle »

In post 2172, Porkens wrote:Do you see TSE and bm connected other than Poe?
TSE was sheeping BM pretty hard.
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Post Post #2177 (isolation #203) » Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:43 am

Post by Bingle »

Porkens' inconsistency isn't actually explained by being roleblocked. He got a result on me that he couldn't have gotten via my role saying no one visited me.

Either he's a ninja (by his own or someone else's role, he's lying, or he was redirected.)
In post 2174, farside22 wrote:Titus claimed her target n2 but ircher said he wasnt loverized.
There's actually a fairly simple explanation for that. Titus claimed a Yellow card on D2. If anyone can corroborate/deny yellow cards being rb-d that night that'd be swell.
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Post Post #2179 (isolation #204) » Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:46 am

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In post 2169, Titus wrote:The most logical reason is that scum are afraid to kill because they don't know who I will target.
That doesn't explain why scum hasn't killed you, but there's also an explanation for that that I've been tinfoiling over.

HB's claim that SB was a 3rd party bomber as group scum actually makes more sense if she legitimately thought SB was a 3rd party bomber. Mafia might be holstering to prevent bomber from winning from no where.
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Post Post #2180 (isolation #205) » Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:49 am

Post by Bingle »

In post 2178, Starbuck wrote:We weren't loverized at all during Day 3.
No one was. Either Titus holstered (why does scum Titus holster?), Titus was roleblocked (roleblocker is MCD or unaligned with Titus), or Titus loverized two people who both decided to not claim that for some reason and was able to know that they would make that decision (someone is actively throwing the game).
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Post Post #2181 (isolation #206) » Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:59 am

Post by Bingle »

In post 2137, Morning Tweet wrote:[I see there's a village idiot that knows the scum but is not allowed to vote for them. Maybe that's slightly more plausible I guess]
If manatee is this we literally win the game 100% of the time, so...

He votes everyone who is town and then himself and we win the game by lynching everyone he didn't vote.
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Post Post #2184 (isolation #207) » Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:12 am

Post by Bingle »

In post 2167, Morning Tweet wrote:[hey maybe shes not even a loverizer and it's a partner, who even knows anymore. im kinda wanting to go with it because even if Titus is town we'll be okay i think]
Titus is a better player than that. Fakeclaiming a partner's role just gives you more chances to be caught.
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Post Post #2187 (isolation #208) » Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:17 am

Post by Bingle »

In post 2182, Battle Mage wrote:why they've now given up on it?
They dropped it after I corroborated that we should never lynch you before TSE and showed no interest in lynching TSE, iirc.

I agree with you that TSE sheeping his clear and spending all of his time fighting people going after said clear makes sense as town TSE, though. The question was whether you were connected, and the answer is definitely yes: either TSE is pocketing you or you're the same alignment.
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Post Post #2188 (isolation #209) » Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:22 am

Post by Bingle »

In post 2186, Battle Mage wrote:I think Titus is an astute player as town...I don't see much of that high quality sorting here. Useful to get your take on why that is, if you're suggesting it isn't AI?
I don't really see a lack of sorting?

I see a moonlogic tunnel on you/TSE (based on lack of content, which townTitus is perfectly capable of confbiasing into), but all of her suspicions outside of that have been completely reasonable FMPOV. Other than that, Titus seems to be pretty actively pushing people she thinks are scummy the same way Titus always does as town.
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Post Post #2190 (isolation #210) » Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:25 am

Post by Bingle »

@BM
In post 2100, Bingle wrote:
In post 2088, farside22 wrote:Also Bingle was targetted by pork but said he didn't get a message.

Pork: What did you target Bingle with again?
Pork claims to have copped me to get an innocent on D2, which I know didn't happen, and then used one of doc or roleblock on me last night, which I know didn't happen.

Roleblock doesn't actually account for Porkens not succeeding on D2, because he would have gotten no result, not an innocent. It doesn't make sense for me to lie about any of this, because either I'd have to be insanely dumb town or insanely dumb scum.

So... either Porkens is scum, or notTitus is a scum redirector.

Also, there's a reason that Starbuck didn't die D1. Quick town would have to be insanely dumb town to claim not to be the reason.

So... either Starbuck is scum, or notTitus is scum responsible for Starbuck not dying D1.

Also, there's a Mafia Card dealer. Who is notTitus.

Why the FUCK would we lynch Titus?

And, bonus points, that same exact logic is what applies to MT and Farside. MT is a 1-shotizer and Farside is vanilla now, thus can't be the Card Dealer or the redirector.

What do you think of that post?
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Post Post #2199 (isolation #211) » Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:47 am

Post by Bingle »

I don't think I've touted Titus as a top player in this game, and in fact we frequently clash on what is 'right' as town although I do have a pretty high opinion of her results.

I've said she's not dumb enough to claim a scumbuddy's role, but that's not high praise. I also have been pretty upfront with the fact that I think she misplayed her role. I just don't think the way she misplayed her role is scum indicative, because she did it in a way that ended up getting a theoretical scum her no additional benefit. Her and farside tunneling you was also baffling, but I don't really think going after a lynch that will never happen is more likely to come from scum than town who has a dangerous tunnel. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe she is scum. But I don't see it, and I know that there are people who aren't her who ARE scum.

The same thing applies to farside. Farside could be scum, I guess. But if farside is scum, she still has partners that we have narrowed down to a small pool.
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Post Post #2200 (isolation #212) » Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:48 am

Post by Bingle »

In post 2196, Battle Mage wrote:Farside, are you conftown now?
Farside is confirmed to not be responsible for any of the individual role discrepencies that we know come from scum (unless Starbuck is also scum).
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Post Post #2202 (isolation #213) » Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:50 am

Post by Bingle »

In post 2192, farside22 wrote:If pork is town I would lynch you without hesitation given this info. Any thoughts of a redirector without lynching another player to prove that would look like BS.
If pork is town and there is no redirector/ninjafier he has an innocent result on me that I'm lying about having contradictory evidence about.
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Post Post #2204 (isolation #214) » Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:53 am

Post by Bingle »

In post 2194, farside22 wrote:
In post 2193, farside22 wrote:Starbuck: Do me a favor and target Titus tonight (do you get a conformation if it works?)
If no confirmation occurs then target bingle
I support this. My role is pretty useless.
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Post Post #2206 (isolation #215) » Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:56 am

Post by Bingle »

Spoiler: @BM MT's take on my posts
In post 2148, Morning Tweet wrote:[Well, right off the bat, what's more likely-- Titus went all the way back to like page 20 of grand idea, or she chose the one that matches her birthday? The explanation of her getting the "Townie (Reroll role)" right at the top of her birthday page, then got assigned a random ass alien role at the beginning of the thread makes a lot of sense to me. Yes she could be alien but also, there hasn't been an alien nightkill yet.]

[we can also use Titus' power to get double lynches. she can't use it nefariously. she can't be the card dealer since we know she has the power. There are a lot of reasons to pick others over titus]

[Also she is definitely a pheromone seeder since hellbooks was hellbent on finding an alien for some reason. She saw the "Pheromone Seeder" and assumed alien]
Starbuck wrote:
In post 2144, Morning Tweet wrote:[i'm not interested in arguing with Starbuck over the hellbooks lynch much]
Interesting how Bingle and MT don't want interact over this.

NOTE this please, everyone.
[Would you like me to? I really don't want to cause i think it's pointless-- i've already said what i think, you disagree with it, i want to move on cause i have 0 hope of convincing you. but we can talk more if you prefer]
In post 2115, Morning Tweet wrote:[sorry i worded that unnecessarily rudely for some reason. I get what your point was but yeah im convinced the card dealer is scum]

[Well, let's see. Bingle's lynchpool is:]
In post 1989, Bingle wrote:{Porkens, TSE, Bingle, Looker, MD, CL}
[Your role seems to contradict Bingle's. However I will admit you did seem to shoot Drew. I wish you werent loverized.]
[TSE can't really prove his role at all]
[Bingle can't prove his own role really and it contradicts with yours]
[Looker can't prove that he's a VT and also his slot kinda sucks. He did claim VT right? yeah]
[Manatee can't claim and he also hasn't really done much to solve-- he had a big post on Chateau early game I recall but i believe that was ultimately wrong]
[out of this entire list i just disagree with Chateau being on there. But yes, chateau seems to be unable to prove his role.]
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Post Post #2208 (isolation #216) » Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:07 am

Post by Bingle »

In post 2205, Porkens wrote:Ok yes I had a yellow card so I think that confirms the RB last night
The issue with your claim isn't the roleblock last night. It's that you got an innocent result on me on a night when I know no one visited me.

If roleblocking was the answer you wouldn't have gotten that innocent result at all.

For you to be town there necessarily has to be another scum role in the players who don't have confirmable roles.
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Post Post #2209 (isolation #217) » Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:09 am

Post by Bingle »

Anyone voting Porkens should be voting Looker, btw. Looker is the better lynch given that Porkens claimed red card, unless you think that Porkens lied about that. I'm more confident in Looker scum than Porkens scum by a longshot.
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Post Post #2218 (isolation #218) » Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:20 am

Post by Bingle »

In post 2217, Porkens wrote:So I roleblocked bingle?
I have never been roleblocked, because my role has always had a result. I would get a different result if I were roleblocked than if I were targeted by no one.
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Post Post #2221 (isolation #219) » Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:31 am

Post by Bingle »

In post 1418, Pigman wrote:I like Titus, ircher, farside, hoctac, TSE. Probably ico too.

I dislike quick, boring, bingle

The rest I have no idea and am reading more to get a better handle on it rn. But this needs to go. I don’t like being pressured to give up info that only benefits mafia and he seems like he’s really trying to control everyone into voting his way. That just doesn’t seem genuine to me.

VOTE: bingle
It's publicly known that my modus operandi as scum is to accurately setup spec as if I were town to the best of my ability. I don't lie about setup information. I am occasionally wrong and occasionally misread things, but Pigman knows me better than to say that that comes from scum me. You can verify this by looking at literally any of my completed games.

I was unaware of it at the time, but Pigman is someone who has extensive experience with me. Like, more than everyone else in this thread combined levels of experience. Town Pigman never makes this post. (Scum Pigman also wouldn't have made this post if I had known who they were, but the reason I know who they are happened after they were replaced, so they were free to make the shit push without me knowing it came from them.)
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Post Post #2223 (isolation #220) » Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:35 am

Post by Bingle »

In post 2220, Porkens wrote:
In post 2218, Bingle wrote:
In post 2217, Porkens wrote:So I roleblocked bingle?
I have never been roleblocked, because my role has always had a result. I would get a different result if I were roleblocked than if I were targeted by no one.
Sorry autocorrect I was asking if I am to roleblock bingle in farsides plan
That seems to be what she's suggesting, yes. Although it would confirm absolutely nothing if you were to say you planned to roleblock me.

If you out that you're roleblocking me, I can say that I received no result.

If you say you're not roleblocking me I can say whether I was visited based on whether I get a "You were vanilla-ized" pm.
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Post Post #2224 (isolation #221) » Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:37 am

Post by Bingle »

If Porkens survives the day, Porkens should not claim who he is roleblocking and I should claim whether my role functioned before he claims whether he targeted me. Even still, this isn't foolproof because I have a yellow card today and thus will be roleblocked anyway if we lynch another yellow card holder.
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Post Post #2226 (isolation #222) » Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:40 am

Post by Bingle »

In post 2219, Battle Mage wrote:would your role turn somebody scum into town?
No. vanilla-izer just removes the role, it does nothing to alignment.

So for example a Mafia Roleblocker would become a mafia goon, where I as a self voyeur will simply become a VT.
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Post Post #2227 (isolation #223) » Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:43 am

Post by Bingle »

In post 2225, farside22 wrote:
In post 2224, Bingle wrote:If Porkens survives the day, Porkens should not claim who he is roleblocking and I should claim whether my role functioned before he claims whether he targeted me. Even still, this isn't foolproof because I have a yellow card today and thus will be roleblocked anyway if we lynch another yellow card holder.

I just find it odd you say you didn't see he targeted you and that is twice now.
What possible motivation do I have to lie?

If I'm scum lying here, then he decided to fake an innocent result on me and my response would have been to let someone fake an innocent result on me.

Like, the only argument for me to be scum as a result of this is some weird double bus scenario where Porkens fakes an inno on me and then I call him out on it and get him lynched and ride the town cred from his lynch to victory. Which is actually pretty fucking brilliant and I wish that was what was happening.
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Post Post #2234 (isolation #224) » Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:38 pm

Post by Bingle »

In post 2229, Morning Tweet wrote:[why'd your role change?]
It didn't. I'm still a motion detector. I'm not sure why I typed voyeur except that it's a similarish role.
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Post Post #2257 (isolation #225) » Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:01 am

Post by Bingle »

Porkens youve got the roleblock left, right?

You used doc, cop and vig?
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Post Post #2259 (isolation #226) » Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:06 am

Post by Bingle »

I’m trying to decide if porkens seemingly forgetting he claimed to be targeted is AI.
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Post Post #2261 (isolation #227) » Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:14 am

Post by Bingle »

Check your day start pms From the last few days and see if you can answer why there’s an issue.

You not being able to find it would be a big deal I think.
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Post Post #2263 (isolation #228) » Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:24 am

Post by Bingle »

In post 1647, Porkens wrote:also, in case it got lost in the shuffle (lol) I did NOT get a card last night AND "[my] special actions can only be used once more" from morning message.
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Post Post #2265 (isolation #229) » Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:47 am

Post by Bingle »

The fact that you’re talking about using your ability tonight?
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Post Post #2267 (isolation #230) » Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:37 am

Post by Bingle »

That makes sense. I'm gonna go fold tinfoil hats in the corner for a while.
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Post Post #2270 (isolation #231) » Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:07 pm

Post by Bingle »

In post 2251, Chateau Lobby wrote:
In post 2250, Porkens wrote:Explain how the positioning flagged you?

I'm just ASSUMING that HB's buddies are more likely to jump on the wagon on the latter half when the lynch becomes inevitable.

Or course that type of reasoning can be considered WIFOM but what isn't WIFOM in this game?

A mechanical approach isn't even plausible in this setup so we need to test all waters (i.e. VCA, vibes, associations, etc) at least until we get something more substantial to work with
In post 2252, Starbuck wrote:
In post 2251, Chateau Lobby wrote:I'm just ASSUMING that HB's buddies are more likely to jump on the wagon on the latter half when the lynch becomes inevitable.
I'm also assuming some didn't even join.
I think both of those are shitty assumptions.

HB was obviously not the endgame player on their team. If there's a member of your scumteam who is intended to die you're more likely to hardbus than softbus or avoid bussing, and I'm interested in why you're assuming literally the opposite.
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Post Post #2271 (isolation #232) » Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:11 pm

Post by Bingle »

In post 2240, Morning Tweet wrote:
In post 2238, Chateau Lobby wrote:I hate to ask another question thats probably been answered but how do we know that scum only has 1 NK?
[:(]

[it's been observed but not proven. So far there's only 1 nightkill that has been made that wasnt claimed. I thought i figured out why, but alas]
Hb's flip says mafia can kill every night, so...
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Post Post #2273 (isolation #233) » Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:15 pm

Post by Bingle »

In post 2245, Starbuck wrote:I'm already voting him, but Bingle's 2221 is so much WIFOM, it hurts.
This, in this case, means 0 WIFOM.

That post says:

I know Pigman very well. Pigman knows me just as well. Pigman town never makes that push on me.

Absolutely 0% of that is WIFOM.

Keep throwing that shade, though. It really helps point out how genuine your push on me is.
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Post Post #2274 (isolation #234) » Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:16 pm

Post by Bingle »

In post 2272, Titus wrote:I think whether or not HB was meant to live to endgame or not depends on the number of players on his team. We know he had at least one. If there's only that one, they likely bussed when they saw the lynch was inevitable but hard protected until then. If there's two or three, early bussing might be a thing or one might be off. They could have refused to bus at all. If there's four or more, no one bussed. It's all pretty speculative and makes assumptions about the setup.
HB had claimed a role that died when it was used. There was no way that HB's team thought she was going to go the distance after that claim.
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Post Post #2276 (isolation #235) » Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:05 pm

Post by Bingle »

Starbuck accuses me of using WIFOM when I say that
I
have a relationship with Pigman.

I point out that that is not at all WIFOM, and the shade throwing is real.

Starbuck throws even more shade at me, because apparently Starbuck not knowing Pigman means I can't possibly know Pigman.

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Post Post #2305 (isolation #236) » Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:16 am

Post by Bingle »

It's a protective soft, but he should definitely full claim because
scum know all the roles
.
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Post Post #2325 (isolation #237) » Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:35 pm

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When Starbuck flips scum.
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Post Post #2811 (isolation #238) » Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:52 am

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Thanks for the game, TL.

I think the only real thing I disagreed on was your parsing of the Effort saver. I would definitely have interpreted that role as being roles that specifically end the game when they win, like showstopper lyncher or bomber.

Otherwise it's just a bad role, which, tbf, is a thing that happens in GIDEA all the time. Also, I probably would have let the infinite dayvig through since it being gamebreaking is dependent on it also gamethrowing.
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Post Post #2812 (isolation #239) » Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:53 am

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Also, my scumteam was great and I enjoyed the uphill battle with you guys. ;)
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Post Post #2816 (isolation #240) » Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:17 pm

Post by Bingle »

In post 2815, TemporalLich wrote:Effort Saver was one of the roles that were ambiguously worded, the narrow scope interpretation would have been close to a Vanilla in power.

And yeah a Jester Infinite Dayvig is basically a Kingmaker scenario in a role.
Infinite dayvig jester can't autowin that way, though, because they can't trust a scumteam claim post them having confirmed themselves to actually be telling the truth (What if it's masons or just town yolo-ing to try and win?) and no scumteam is going to out prior to them fully confirming themselves. It drastically changes the game in what is potentially an unfun way, but isn't gamebreaking necessarily. It does probably autowin by holding the town hostage to lynch it on D1, but as it isn't showstopping that's just super meme-y. Hence the gamebreak strategy being gamethrowing. Also I think your interpretation for effort saver was probably the most technically correct one, although I think it's neither the intent of the role or a fun role to include. ;)

Your choices were completely fine, though, I was just sharing my thoughts on what I would have done differently. I think you did a great job modding what is a naturally chaotic game type.
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Post Post #2830 (isolation #241) » Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:04 pm

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Reading the PT's I'm reminded how hard it was to get the lover elim I wanted. The sheer difficulty makes a lot of sense now that I was right about both slots and it was actually EVERY other scum that was resisting the lynch.

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