SSW III: Game over

[Porkens]

See, what we have here is a lack of scumhunting. We need to be looking for humans already.

And I've found one. Not just any human, but because they're so fat I have to assume that not only do they want to kill us, they want to EAT US TOO.

Vote: Porkens

I WILL NOT BE YOUR DINNER

I don't need to scumhunt while

you're

in the game.

Vote: cerebus3

because there's only room for

one

werepig in this town.

[Porkens]

The Wall-E vote seems sound to me.

Unvote: cerebus3, Vote: Wall-E

[Porkens]

Reason?

Mostly because of this exchange:

I think I'm lynched by some retards (or scum).

Anyway I'm a Werewolf Tracker. My role PM infers that I'm a seer.

Uhh, you aren't?

Also, what do you think of M4yhem?

I think it was incredibly scummy to stop the wagon like that. If Wall-E Flips mafia, FoS on M4yhem.

[Porkens]

Porkens wrote:
Sleepy wrote:

Reason?


Mostly because of this exchange:

Wall-E wrote:

I think I'm lynched by some retards (or scum).

Anyway I'm a Werewolf Tracker. My role PM infers that I'm a seer.
Panda wrote:

Uhh, you aren't?



I don't get it. You don't believe his claim or something?

I guess

I

don't get it. I interpreted your response as a refutation.

Quote:

panda wrote:

Also, what do you think of M4yhem?


I think it was incredibly scummy to stop the wagon like that. If Wall-E Flips mafia, FoS on M4yhem.

You think he's scummy for getting OFF the wagon? Would you have been satisfied lynching Wall-E without a claim when he already softclaimed a power role?

For being full on a wagon for one player and hopping off for another at L-1? Yes, I think that's scummy. I don't understand the second part of your question; would I have been satisfied lynching Wall-E without a claim (from Wall-E?) when he (Wall-E again?) had already softclaimed a power role? Yeah, I'd have been satisfied with that considering you refuted his hard claim.

[Porkens]

I understand the confusion now. I cleared it up in post 157. It's a bit higher up on this page.

Ahh I see, my mistake.

unvote: Wall-E

I'll re-read tomorrow and try to be more intellig-ent/-able.

[Porkens]

vote: M4yhem

[Porkens]

[quote=spyderX]
FoS: Porkens - Jumping on that late without a reason is very suspicious.
[/quote]

I don't want to bother regurgitating everything that the rest of us have already said about M4yhem.

[Porkens]

I just find the replacement, Porkens, to hammer suspicious for some reason. I can't get my fingers on it but just something was really off.

I'm not the replacement, nor did I hammer.

[Porkens]

hey,

unvote

I have to look back and read a bit top see where my vote will

lie

today.

Double entendre?

[Porkens]

Porkens has not defended himself

I took back my Wall-E vote because Sleepy pointed out that I had missread his refutation of Wall-E's claim.

As I said before, I had no reason or obligation to regurgitate everything that y'all had already said about M4yhem. I thought it was a good lynch based on what the town had said and the panic in M4yhems defenses, so I voted for him.

[Porkens]

Well, that will teach me to not voice my gut instincts. I thought BM was scummy from the beginning because of his hardcore "omfg lynch now" policy. I also assumed that my intuition about BM "tracking" Wall-E would be ruled "the worst logic I have ever seen." I guess I need to be more aggresive/vocal. NOW it will look like I'm just jumping on another bandwagon. Well, I 100% feel this way too cerebus.

Vote: Wall-E

[Porkens]

Hey guys, I'll just come out and be straight with everyone. I wasn't reading the game as closely as everyone else. Thats why I've said some, or done some, pretty stupid things during this game.

Why would you say this out of the blue?

[Porkens]

So the confusion lies with whether Wall-E is telling the truth about being a tracker or not?

Is it enough to risk lynching him and potentially losing a roled player?

I think doubts about his claim, coupled with his erratic behavior (tracking BM, voting BM, unvoting BM), is worth the risk you speak of donkey.

If I'm reading everything right; those of us who are voting Wall-E are operating under the suspicion that he and BM are scum buddies who attempted to clear "each other," essentially. If I'm wrong already, let me know.

Last night I was fairly certain we were moving in the right direction but a little doubt has crept up in my mind today.

I guess my concern/question is; If Wall-E was trying to clear his scum buddy, why would he vote him at all? Wouldn't tracking and reporting no visitation be enough to accomplish the 'clear'? (WIFOM maybe?) I know I'm discussing maf tactics here, but with our lynch yesterday, I'm paranoid.

I'll keep my vote with the hopes someone can alleviate my fears.

[Porkens]

I'm against lynching Wall-E even if she is confused. There are other people who look scummy and are being ignored. Porkens makes sense even if it is WIFOM

Sorry, I don't quite get something here; even if what is WIFOM?

[Porkens]

WIFOM

What are you trying to say LG? I don't know what WIFOM is? Farside22 doesn't?

[Porkens]

Sorry, I don't quite get something here; even if what is WIFOM?

Read it more carefuly.

[Porkens]

Sorry LG, just had quite a day of work, I didn't mean to sound snappy, I see now that you were just trying to help.

I was playing with the sentence structure:

"Even if

it

is WIFOM."
"Even if

what

is WIFOM?"

As to the origional comment;

I'm against lynching Wall-E even if she is confused. There are other people who look scummy and are being ignored. Porkens makes sense even if it is WIFOM

(let me start by saying I don't think I'm being ignored)

I've thought this over today, and I must agree that it makes more sense to look at other options/scummy players than to risk loosing a claimed power-role who's acting, at worst, only scum-like.

Yes, I know that I am one of those other options. I'll take another look at the situation and post again tonight. So, until then:

Unvote: Wall-E

[Porkens]

I actually think a more pertinent question would be: What do you think "Verbatum" means?

[Porkens]

You're giving him an "out"

[Porkens]

What's a safeclaim?

[Porkens]

@ LG

Vote: Porkens

for reasons stated yesterday and not voting anyone when he was the #2 wagon.

I'm pretty sure you would still be voting for me even if I had stayed on the Wall-E wagon. But here's my reasoning anyway;

Yesterday and into last night I was worried that we, who were voting Wall-E, were voting to lynch a confused townie rather than a lousy scum. The BM/Wall-E scumbuddy theory had ceased appealing to me during the discussion of

why

Wall-E would vote his scum partner.

In addition to this, Wall-E admitted that he didn't know what Verbatim meant. To me, that explained all the crap that Spydermex was basing his wagon on, and further caused me to suspect that Wall-E was just confused.

As for not voting

anyone

when I was the #2 wagon, I don't really know how to defend against this because I don't know why it's scummy. I guess I'll just admit that I didn't know who to vote for at the time.

I’m going to respond a bit to SpyreX’s post here:

Not Very Suspicious:
Septia - Has been uniformly against the claim from the start.

But the claim was real, so how does this put Septia in a good light? Scum can be consistent too.

Lord Gurgi - Voting for exactly the reason I expected, and saying so.

But what about being hypocritical with the very same post?

I don't think that "unvote, vote" posts help the town at all.

Ummm, (Wall-E’s win condition)’s different than mine. Unvote; Vote Wall-E

I admit that this is a little OMGUS for being voted by LG every single free moment he had, but take a look at his posts between night 1 and now; there's hardly any content! He just happily wagons me until a better wagon comes along and then hops on over to help misslynch.

Cerebus3 - Although he brings up the case (on top of me). I really dont like the "Anyone else see this?" without a vote or even a FoS at that point. I dont like building cases without backing them up, at all.

Very Suspicious:

Raider - Late vote, mostly lurked, no true reason for the vote (not even I agree, just I noticed what he said).

Coheed - Late vote, mostly lurked.. bad quantifier "Wall-E- he's been caught, or thats what its really looking like"

I somewhat agree with your top 3 here based on the Wall-E voters. Although I would also include Lord Gurgi for what I’ve pointed out above.

To add a little more to your analysis; there were two people who jumped off my wagon directly onto the wagon which was on Wall-E; Raider and Gurgi. I ultimately thought that the case against Wall-E was moderate at best, so I perceive these two jumping wagons as highly suss. Especially if they really believed I was scum.

One person clearly lines up well between your reasoning and mine; Raider.

Vote: raider8169

I’m also putting

FOS farside22

and

FOS Grimmy

for being such background players; voting an unpopular Cambria wagon yesterday and contributing very little on an important day.

Finally, it cannot go without note that the

only

three people to vote for

both

misslynches were SpyreX, Raider, and Cass.

FOS SpyreX

,

FOS Cass

. Before you jump down my throat, I realize both were well-rationalized lynches. However, the coincidence can’t be overlooked.

[Porkens]

doublepost:

I'd also like to hear more from Cambria. So far you've been nothing but 1 liners with no content.

I'd also like to hear what SpyreX thinks of Cambria.

[Porkens]

Why is it scummy? You built a case but didn't follow it until you saw that others were going to.

I assume you mean "didn't follow it

with a vote

. To be fair, Spyrex, neither did you. You intended to post first, but did not vote with your post. Am I confused about what you are saying?

[Porkens]

Besides, I wasn't thinking about Wall-E's claim when I made that post. I was just speculating about how a BM and Wall-E pairing would make sense. When I realized that Wall-E had done something else scummy, I voted him.

You weren't thinking about Wall-E's claim when you accused him of being scumbuddies with BM? Their relationship in the game was built on that claim and the repercussions it had.

Did you believe Wall-E's claim? If so; why FoS him?
Did you think his claim was a lie? If so; why say now that you weren't thinking about it.
Did you forget that he had claimed? That can't be:

You know, I beginning to wonder if there is merit to the whole speculation that Wall-E would have to be a scum partner with BM.

BM seems to be doing everything in his power to make people believe Wall-E is dumb town, Wall-E just happens to target BM with his night action, then BM claims vanilla just to confirm Wall-E as town.

And something about Wall-E's BM vote strikes me as a not-so-subtle attempt at distancing. (trying to get a reaction my ass)

Forgive me if I'm missguided in jumping up your tube about this, but the claim was central to what we all thought about Wall-E and you are saying that it didn't factor into your logic. Can you please clarify?

[Porkens]

So you are voting me because I unvoted from a wagon that I no longer believed in?

I don't think my FOS is crap. I think I'm FOSing people who may be trying to stay out from under the attention of others. Maybe two isn't a bandwagon, but I don't think that's enough to vote for me.

I'm not in SpyreX's pocket either. I've been arguing with him in my last few posts.

[Porkens]

Asking someone what they think of someone else doesn't mean your trying to be their buddy. I want to get a feeling for what SpyreX thinks of Camb because I haven't heard him say anything about her(?) yet and it's pertinent since others seem highly suss of cam.

You're second quote there makes no sense as evidence for me to be in SpyreX's pocket; I'm refuting what Spyrex said about Cerebus. SpyreX said Cerebus built a case against Wall-E/BM with no vote. I said that Spyrex did the same thing, so his point about Cerebus wasn't valid.

[Porkens]

You misunderstand; I want to hear Spyrex's opinion of Camb because I am suspicious of SPYREX, not Cambria.

[Porkens]

I'm trying to read the case over on Coheed atm. I'm still a bit confused as to what he is doing to be suspicious but will respond once I read over his posts.

Been busy with RL so unable to analyze as much as I should be doing.

Did you re-read the case on Coheed? Did you come up with anything?

[Porkens]

Just checking in, Porkens is still my choice for the lynch, waiting for the reread from our wonderful replacer.

I'm not surprised, nor am I surprised that you're voting with Donkey again. Seems to have been this way since, shoot, since random.

[Porkens]

Did I forget anyone? Oh yes, I'll not vote Coheed yet. He does seem scummy, but it could be lack of reading the game. I'd prefer a Donkey or Gurgi lynch today.
Unvote
Vote: Donkeyz12212

Yeah, you forgot Farside22. Why suddenly change your vote when farside22 hasn't responded to it yet?

[Porkens]

Did I forget anyone? Oh yes, I'll not vote Coheed yet. He does seem scummy, but it could be lack of reading the game. I'd prefer a Donkey or Gurgi lynch today.
Unvote
Vote: Donkeyz12212

Yeah, you forgot Farside22. Why suddenly change your vote when farside22 hasn't responded to it yet?

Never mind, she did respond, my bad. But still, nothing else to say on the subject?

[Porkens]

Well, I think I see what's going on here, and I think it's retarted. Furthermore; is it really ok for us to be so specific about the exact words in our PMs? Aren't we obligated to paraphrase (use synonyms)? If so, how can we compare what yours says to what mine says, since we may both use different synonyms? I think it's a bad line of questioning to persue if, in fact, and as I interpret, we must paraphrase.

How about this: My win condition (paraphrased) states that:

after

each of the

adversaries

of

the

group of lunatic lycanthropes

are

destroyed

,

I

will be

victorious

.

I can see how Wall-E's paraphrase could be concidered a match to that or not.

[Porkens]

after

each of the

adversaries

of

the

group of lunatic lycanthropes

are

destroyed

,

I

will be

victorious

.

Lycanthropes? Umm as far as I know the villagers are the bad guys and the wolves are the good guys. Tell me I'm not losing it.

The

ADVERSARIES OF

the lycanthropes are destroyed. Not the lycanthropes.

Fine; "werewolf pack" is the exact phrase used in my win condition that is used to express the "village" the "good guys" "my group" "blue" "not scum"

I'm done with this line of logic; it's retarted.

[Porkens]

God protect you. Everyone go to dictionary.com and look up the words "paraphrase" and "verbatim".

[Porkens]

Someone must have 7 votes against them to hang before the deadline. In the situation you described, the person with the most votes (but not a majority) would be hung at the deadline.

Vote count

(12 players alive = 7 to lynch before deadline)
(3) CoheedCambria09 – farside22, Grimmy, Septia
(3) Porkens – Lord Gurgi, raider8169, donkeyz12212
(2) Lord Gurgi – Jebus, cerebus3
(2) raider8169 – Porkens, SpyreX
(1) donkeyz12212 – Cass

Not voting:

CoheedCambria09

Deadline:

Tuesday 5 August 2:00 PM (GMT -5 according to forum clock)

[Porkens]

I'll post when I get home from work tongiht.

[Porkens]

Cult?

Just a thought, that it doesn't seem anyone's noticed yet... Black back clan = cult/second mafia?

I strongly suspect that there is something like this going on. There’s some other evidence of more than one nightkilling group;

The morning did however bring ill news, since SleepyPanda was found

mauled

up on his hill. Things were starting to look grim.
The next morning they all came down, except Battle Mage who was found

mauled

.
All too happy they came town to the village square, only to find Grimmy

missing

. He was later found

dead

.

Masons?

Where I come from, masons recruit too. And if both Spyrex and LG are telling the truth, and they both have different Cubs, and those cubs are really masons, we may have a group of masons out there too (which, I can only assume, would be good)

Grimmy (Werewolf cub a.k.a. mason) Nightkilled N3

Claiming?

Well, since you guys have started the claims already, I think we should continue.

I’m a vanilla townie werewolf

.

However, I strongly caution everyone to keep in mind that there is an excellent possibility of a recruiting cult in this game. I’d assume a worst case scenario to look like: 3 Humans, 4 Cult, and only 3 honest Werewolves left.

Questions, Ideas

1) I think SpyreX’s role claim can be believed based on his breadcrums.

2)

@Raider

, how do you find the Alpha?

3)

FoS

on

Septia

for saying nothing today except “2 scum groups? RUT ROH!”

4)

@donkey

: what do you mean by this:

Given the way the votes went, I'm more inclined to believe Porkens = not scum since it was 4-4 and then switched to majority.

What/Who switched to majority?

These 4 top my suspicion list based on process of elimination.

Please elaborate on your process.

5) Raider, I’d really like you to explain to me why

you

are now so certain that I am town.

Leaning Town:

Cass
Spyrex
Jebus

Leaning Scum:

Cerebus3
Raider

Profoundly leaning Scum

(These are the only two players to have been voting for a townie at

every lynch so far

)

:
Lord Gurgi
Donkey

I'm Paranoid That The Following People Are Cult(?)

:
Farside22
Spyrex
Septia

My vote now goes on;

Vote: Donkey

For being in my top 2, for distancing himself from LG (his vote buddy for days), for jumping on the "Jebus is scummy" wagon, and maybe a liiiitle OMGUS.

[Porkens]

I never said I was certain of it, I just strongly suspect that "there is something like that going on."

I don't think it's THAT radical of a possibility;

In SWWII, the Berzerker was also a BP who didn't know if he got shot.

A second killing group might well no-kill if they knew their presence was a secret.

The other werewolf clan is clearly the primary mafia group, as evidenced by the fact that coheeds role says mafia explicitly. Also, the mauled MO supports this.

That does not explain the change in text between

mauled

and

missing...dead

.

Jumping to the conclusion that there has to be more than one scum group is

interesting

though...

Shit or get off the pot; "interesting . . ." means nothing. State your suspicions one way or the other (please).

[Porkens]

Remember Schrodinger's Cult Cerebus3. The Cult both exists and does not until we see the roles.

There's the possibility that BM was shot both nights.

But fine; you make a valid point

I'm looking forward to your theory on the NK texts.

Claim up people. Septia, go.

[Porkens]

So, just to recap here:

<in order I think>
1. Cerebus: ? (post X) <not a power role> Townie
2. Spyrex: She-Wolf
3. Raider: Alpha Protector
4. LG: She-Wolf
5. Porkens: Vanilla Town Werewolf
6. Farside22: Cop

<unclaimed>
Donkey: ?
Septia: ?
Cass: ?
Jebus: ?

[Porkens]

Edit: X=622 (this is where cerebus "claimed")

[Porkens]

Claim up people. Septia, go.

I'm the werewolf princess. After I die, day or night, the next day phase will be skipped.

Pretty horrible role tbh. :/

that's...terrible.

Vote count

(10 players alive = 6 to lynch before deadline)
(5) donkeyz12212 – farside22, SpyreX, Jebus, Porkens, Septia
(1) farside22 – Cass
(1) raider8169 – cerebus3
(1) Lord Gurgi – donkeyz12212

Not voting:

Lord Gurgi, raider8169

Deadline:

Saturday 9 August 2:00 PM (GMT -5 according to forum clock)

[Porkens]

<in order I think>
1. Cerebus: ? (post X) <not a power role> Townie
2. Spyrex: She-Wolf
3. Raider: Alpha Protector
4. LG: She-Wolf
5. Porkens: Vanilla Town Werewolf
6. Septia: Werewolf Princess
6. Farside22: Cop

<unclaimed>
Donkey: ?
Cass: ?
Jebus: ?

[Porkens]

unvote

do we want all the claims before this gets hammered?

[Porkens]

P.S. I'm not being wishy-washy about lynching donkey; but I want those of you who are sleeping/working/living life to have the chance to chime in before we have a double-night action (assuming our princess isn't in another castle) :p

[Porkens]

I kinda wish you hadn't done this much analysis before Jebus and Cass claimed, but now that it's out there;

Now, the other funny thing is - we've got someone (raider) who has said they are a protector for a role that hasn't been claimed. Again, we have to look at Cass or Jebus; if neither of them are the Alpha wolf, then we've got an issue.

If the Alpha knows who s/he is and wasn't sent a vanilla role.

So in that setup, we've got either a cult or one of them is lying.

Or our mod decided to make cop useless (no power to distinguish good wolves from bad wolves).

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So It's

maybe

Farside vs. Donkey

You vs. LG

Raider

(The above all pending Cass and Jebus's claims.)

And of course Me, Septia, and Cerb aren't for reallies cleared.

[Porkens]

I have another question;

Assuming:
1. 3 maf left
2. Both She-Wolves are real
3. Princess is real

Is it Mylo?

-1 for misslynch, -1 for princess, no day, -2 she-wolf/cub?

[Porkens]

Donkey; I'll be honest, all of what you just said and the way you said it just makes me want to hang you right now...

But I want to hear from Cass and Jebus first.

And, you need to explain how you are so certain SpyreX is scum. Out of all the claims; I find his the most believable because of his Day1 breadcrumbing.

[Porkens]

Porkens and where does it say I am so convinced that Spyrex is scuM? I never said that anywhere.

I missread ealry in the morning, sorry.

Jebus is obviously lying about his abilities.

I just don't understand it

.

Whaaaaat?

[Porkens]

I think there's more than a small chance you are NOT a JoaT and are, in fact, a scum rolecop.

Yes, very yes. This would explain why he knows (I'm assuming this is true;) Cass is the other cub.

If Jebus outplayed you, donkey, my bad. But I'm ready to revote even without Cass' claim.

vote: Donkey

[Porkens]

and Porkens, if you are town, I think it's an idiotic move to put me at L-1 especially given the claims.

It's not idiotic because;

1) You claimed second. You breadcrumbed COP.

2) Since you claimed second; you've just pointed to Jebus as your role.

3) You said you were SO important to the town; but all you have left is watcher.

4) you say you have the same role as Jebus but you haven't claimed a vig power; did you shoot someone already?

Raider is the only claim so far that makes no sense.

I'm willing to

unvote

until Cass claims cub. I don't know WHAT raider is; but I think it's far more likely that donkey is a maf power role.

[Porkens]

Might as well tell us then, since he can protect that person.

[Porkens]

My vote will probably be on Porkens as I think its possible there that scum could have been trying to buss their partner to look town.

That's flimsy. Out of everything that is going on you're going to base your vote on simply on possible bussing?

[Porkens]

And the reason I am being obtuse is that I don't want to claim anything because in my role it says if I claim a certain role = consequences for town. I dont even know if the mod would even say I claimed now lol.

If you claim the role there are consequences. Ok. What are the consequences? Please spell them out in as much detail as possible.

[Porkens]

Donkey, can you explain why you're clearing someone because they seem like town? I'm now thinking that donkey and Porkens are scum. Especially considering when it was questioned he dropped the clearing Porkens as well as the suspicion of me. Which he was

positive

about before.

Let's hear something from Cass.

:facedesk:

fine, whatever, I'm used to being the #2 wagon since day 2.

[Porkens]

My PM did not confirm him, but the mod did in our quicktopic thread. So yes, we were confirmed town to eachother.

Mason scum?? Now that would be bastard modding

May I ask what the wording of the confirmation was? Specifically; was it something like "you are both the same alignment" or was it (I hope not) "You are both non-humans/wolves"?

[Porkens]

How about this - If Jebus claims he is Alpha Wolf - you guys can lynch me and prove that he is lying. In that process, you can will be able to clear Raider, as he would be telling the truth, and Cass. Jebus would be scum.

I'm not saying I am the Alpha Wolf due to consequences and reasons I said before but if Jebus does claim that, he is scum 100% positive. Why would a townie claim a role that doesn't belong to them.

So essentially I'm willing to sacrifice myself if it means that it clears Raider and Cass. Well Raider i don't know if he is telling teh truth btu the fact that he brings up alpha wolf protector before any indication of an alpha wolf in the game makes me confident he is town.

The only thing is, I have one night action (Track) left to use so I was hoping to use that lol. But if it goes to waste and I die today, it's fine lol.

I admire your initiative and fully support your plan;

Vote: Donkey

[Porkens]

If you guys are willing to accept the consequences that will affect town, btw, I will claim if necessary.

Please. Fing. Do.

[Porkens]

Because I don't believe a word you have said.

[Porkens]

Porkens, why do you want me to claim so bad and see the consequences. Are you that reckless? And you jump onto me after I was willing to sacrifice myself, not even hesitating.

Why would I hesitate? "Lynch Me" is the most sense you've made all game.

[Porkens]

Do you want to add Vig to that now or wait till you're at L-1 again?

[Porkens]

Also this scenario:

What do we learn if we lynch Jebus instead of myself instead?

If he turns scum, does that mean I am less likely to be scum? Wouldnt that as a result clear both myself and raider?

See SpyreX's prior logic that you three could be coming up with a scheme where one of you "can't" be scum. There is no way to be cleared without being dead.

What it doesnt comment on is what happens when Spyrex is wrong?

That's some FINE solidarity you got goin on there.

[Porkens]

He's Balrog and Balrog has lots and lots of powers.

[Porkens]

You're buddying up with people whom you have been accused of being

scum

buddies with. Do you not see the problem there?

fixed.

[Porkens]

1) Killing me

does not

confirm Spyrex or Gurgi. I find it very suspicious that he suggested this. Nobody counterclaimed mason, so there's really no reason to doubt my claim.

Wait, what? Two people have claimed She-Wolf, each she-wolf has a cub, and one cub is dead. How would proving your role NOT confirm them? I don't think anyone

is

doubting your claim, why do you say so?

2) So he's (Grimmy) a wolf and lives in town, so am I, good enough for me.

Really? He's a wolf and that's good enough for you?

Scumgroup 1: Coheed, Gurgi & Spyrex. (Black wolves)

You seem to have gone crazy with this post, and I don't get it.

Why are you so convinced that Donkey is telling the truth?



P.S. Donkey; Where're my consequences?

[Porkens]

Donkeyz is confirmed town as long as no one else claims up to being the alpha. I will not be voting donkeyz. I still dont like the 2 vanillas and the princess. Seems out of place and that may be a clue to the humans. The princess just seems like an odd role but I dont think either of those reasons are enough for a vote right now.

No, he's not. The only thing confirming his role is your claim.

[Porkens]

GOD this is starting to feel like the Wall-E lynch to me.

[Porkens]

Ok, explain how two dead cubs would

prove

that the two she-wolves are true?? ...How about this scenario: Spyrex + Gurgi (scum) see a dead cub (mason). Now, there tend to be two masons = two cubs. So, why not claim she-wolf?

SpyreX breadcrumbed the word "CUB" into his day 1 posts with

no

precident for such a role to exist in this game. That's compelling evidence.

Because look how eager they are to kill the Alpha and most important role in town!

Be fair; Donkey has been scummy for a long time. His incoherent posting and claims aren't helping to fix that. The fact that he's been linked himself to raider makes me question both their claims.

Porkens and all the doubters: Donkey confirms me

No, Donkey "claims" to have confirmed you, the fact that he isn't confirmed makes that meaningless.

I think Jebus is a

human

hero, come to rid the world of werewolves. he might have a partner, they would be (one, I think) of Septia, Cerebus, Porkens and Farside.

Jebus has been quiet and has had no need to defend himself, so I will bite on this possibility somewhat.


But now let me postulate two different scenarios:

Two She-Wolves; Two Cubs.

One set good Wolves, One set Maf Wolves.

Either Spyrex or LG is a maf, and Cass is a maf cubbie.

And...

Declairing his Alfa-tude, Donkey brought down a consequence that changed Cass's alignment.


Cass, your complete change in attitude is really making me suspicious of you. Earlier in the game, you were making sense. Now; and I see where your theory's are comming from; your just raving GUYS GUYS GUYS...

[Porkens]

Porkens - I confirmed Cass before anyone else did.

I specifically indicated that she was a cub mason. How else would I have known that if I didn't investigate her?

Donkey; you can't confirm Cass for us because you claimed she was a cub only after Spyrex said she could be. It would be VERY easy to see that 2 cubs made sense given two mother claims.


Like I said before; I am starting to think that Donkey is telling the truth and just confused. He's stumbling around, for certain, but we haven't had much luck with those who seem to be "playing stupid."

Let's look at what we could know if we lynched each remaining person:

SpyreX -
Flips Maf: Would implicate Gurgi as a fake she-wolf.
Flips Town and Cass dies: would clear Gurgi.
Flips Town and Cass does not die: Nothing.

Jebus -
Flips Maf: Yay, but no more information.
Flips Town: Damn. No more information.

Lord Gurgi -
Flips Maf: Implicates Cass as a fake/maf cub.
Flips Town and Cass dies: would clear Spyrex.
Flips Town and Cass does not die: Nothing.

Porkens -
Flips Maf: Nothing
Flips Town: Nothing

donkeyz12212 -
Flips Maf: Implicates Raider.
Flips Town: Rut Roh.

Cass -
flips Maf: Implicates Donkey, Raider, and Spyrex/Gurgi.
flips Town: Clears Spy and Gurgi (if you believe the she-wolf claims)

farside22 -
Flips Maf: Implicates Cerebus
Flips Town: Clears Cerebus

cerebus3 -
Flips Maf: Implicates Farside (unless he flips black back clan)
Flips Town: Nothing

raider8169 -
Flips Maf: Nothing.
Flips Town: Clears Donkey

Septia -
Flips Maf: Nothing.
Flips Town: Nothing.

Based purely on this; it looks like Cass is the right lynch. However, if both Spy and Gurgi are maf and made up the wolf-mother claims; we suffer the loss of another townie. But as cass said: She's basically just a vanilla now.

unvote

Vote: Cass

P.S. Whatever we do; someone should analyze the best set of Power Role Night Actions.

[Porkens]

If jebus is town, then donkeyz is scum porkens, and visa-versa.

I'd accept this as likely, since otherwise it would be too much power for one side.

Cass flipping town does NOT confirm SpyreX and gurgi. We have gone over this.

Hence the "If you believe the she-wolf claims."

If donkeyz is scum, then he would have to be Jebus's scum buddy, cass's scum buddy, really lucky, or had picked up on a bread crumb.

Yes, you're right. I didn't include that bit but it's what I meant.

[Porkens]

This is why I want to do the circle check I talked about. I'm leaning more that Donkey confused and Jebus scum. I'm checking Jebus (i just saying) I want Donkey to track Jebus and if Jebus is telling the truth about JOAT I want her to watch me to see if anyone kills me. If Jebus doesn't confirm or do this I am more convinced of her scum then donkey.

It's a good time for power roles to start planing. In combination with that, again, I'd like us to make the most of our lynch.

I also

suspect

Donkey is confused and Jebus is scum.

This is why I want to do the circle check I talked about. I'm leaning more that Donkey confused and Jebus scum. I'm checking Jebus (i just saying) I want Donkey to track Jebus and if Jebus is telling the truth about JOAT I want her to watch me to see if anyone kills me. If Jebus doesn't confirm or do this I am more convinced of her scum then donkey.

It's a good time for power roles to start planing. In combination with that, I'd like us to make the most of our lynch.

I also

suspect

Donkey is confused and Jebus is scum.

So at this point I'd prefer to lynch a non-power role (confirmed or not). This means lynching myself, cerb, or Cass. If we could learn anything by lynching me; I'd be all for it. But from my analysis above; I think we would benefit the most by lynching Cass.

For me, because I believe the she-wolf claims, even if Cass came up town I'd be satisfied that Gurgi is town.

[Porkens]

Why not septia?

True, sorry, Sept SHOULD be on the list of non-power roles. Still, we don't learn as much from lynchin Sept.

Not to say that I'm against lynching him; I suspect it's a BS claim, as some of you do, and I ~think~ it would be better for town to force that loss of day rather than leaving the option to scum.

However, we have no opportunity (obvious opportunity anyway) to gain information from lynching Sept.

[Porkens]

I've got limited everything, including two vig kills, a roleblock, a rolecop, a tracker, and two nexus. None have been used thus far, thanks to my missing out on the last night phase, and Empking being conservative.

[Porkens]

Sorry for the no-text. Yes, there's a descrepency here. Also, during my re-read, I find it even more unlikely that Jebus and Donkey are both scum. It's unfortunate that Jebus has no actual reports, or that Donkeys was so predictable.

[Porkens]

It seems like we've gotten to the point where we're debating the order of our lynch. At this point I think that two of Jebus/Raider/Donkey are scum. So, for the purposes of being more informed I am switching my vote. Unvote, Vote; Raider.

Agreed. Why do we need a alpha doctor if the alpha is BP (i know this has been brought up but...)

unvote, Vote: Raider

[Porkens]

@ Jebus:

-If what's been said about she-wolves being one-way lovers who commit suicide when their cub dies, then the multiple she-wolf idea can be justified, assuming Gurgi or Spyrex suicides today.

We've already seen a cub die; by your interpretation of the role, wouldn't Spyrex and/or Gurgi be confirmed liars?

Also

, Don't worry about dying if your a nexus right?

[Porkens]

But there's only one Alpha Claim, raider.

[Porkens]

Spyrex, your plan isn't bad, but I fear we have to assume two nightkills, which makes it hella risky. Plus I'd rather lynch someone who I'm convined is scum.

Like I said before; it is possibly Mylo if the scum get 2 NKS and they hit the right she-wolf.

[Porkens]

Ok, lets try it like this.
If you and Donkey are town:
Lynching you, proves that the power role is town.
If you and Donkey are scum:
Lynching you, proves that Donkey is scum handing us two scum.

It wouldn't actually prove that Donkey is scum since Maf could have a rolecop. Raider could have known that Donkey was an Alpha Wolf and just obfuscated his claim to make it seem more likely. None the less, I'd be much more inclined to believe Donkey if Raider flipped town.

I really suspect that Jebus is some kind (human or Bwolf) of scum "hero" more strongly than I suspect Raider/Donkey (never thought I would say that). I'm leaning this way because of discrepancies in Jebus' posts, the over-powered nature of the role claimed, and the odd flavor.

But I also have no desire to ML the town's power role.

So either choice seems equally good/dangerous to me. Playing it safe I'd go with Raider. Balls to the wall I'd go with Jebus.

Raider, unless you think both Donkey and Jebus are town, and if you're pro-town you should be fine with this, especially since you can't actually USE your protect yet.

[Porkens]

Following my MYLO paranoia:

Town: Pork, Spy, Gurgi, Cass, Raider, Donkey, Sept.

Maf: Farside, Jebus Cerb

That's who it has to be for it to be 50% chance of mylo today.

[Porkens]

To be completely fair; you could swap me and cerb on that list.

[Porkens]

Following my MYLO paranoia:

Town: Pork, Spy, Gurgi, Cass, Raider, Donkey, Sept.

Maf: Farside, Jebus Cerb

That's who it has to be for it to be 50% chance of mylo today.

Why not spyreX and gurgi?

That list is assuming the she-wolves/cubs are all true claims and town.

[Porkens]

If Septia is telling the truth, and we lynch him, we will lose.

[Porkens]

Following my MYLO paranoia:

Town: Pork, Spy, Gurgi, Cass, Raider, Donkey, Sept.

Maf: Farside, Jebus Cerb

That's who it has to be for it to be 50% chance of mylo today.

Why not spyreX and gurgi?

That list is assuming the she-wolves/cubs are all true claims and town.

and raider/donkeyz?

Ahem; IF Raider is a misslynch, AND the she-wolf claims are true and town, THEN there is a 50% chance that maf will kill the Cass's wolfmother (IFF they kill gurgi or spy.)

[Porkens]

If Septia is telling the truth, and we lynch him, we will lose.

Let me make this more obvious:

If Septia is telling the truth, and we lynch him, we will lose.

[Porkens]

If Septia is telling the truth, and we lynch him, we will lose.

how does us lynching septia change the scenario from us NOT lynching him? Same number of people die.

Are you serious?

If septia is telling the truth:

Town Lynches Septia (-1 town)
Maf killls Spy (-1 town)
Maf kills Gurgi (-1 town)
With no mother, Cass dies (-1 town)

If we hang anyone else (even a misslynch)

We hang X townie (-1 town)
Maf kills Sept (-1 town)
Maf kills Gurgi or Spy (-1 or -2 IFF they hit the right she-wolf)

I

[Porkens]

What you're saying is that if she's telling the truth, we have a 50% chance of losing, that would suggest that out best chance is to lynch her, because if she's town we've basically already lost. However, I am quite sure that raider is scum.[/quote]

There's a gigantic difference between 50% and 100%, wouldn't you agree? Are you saying the best chance we have is to throw the game away?

There's also the possibility that she is scum, I'm not denying that.

There's also the possibility that we wont misslynch if we hang someone else.

I think it's incredibly reckless to hang Sept. right now.

[Porkens]

There is no way the scum is getting 2 kills with no night. I repeat there is no night. They wouldn't have a clue that a day was skipped so how would they get 2 kills when night actions have to be in before the end of the day lynch?

How hard would it be for the mod to send a PM saying: "gg, you get another night action"?

[Porkens]

Here's my problem, if all our current theories are true, we have two scum groups, a princess, two lovestruck roles, that is SOME BASTARD MODDERY right there.

The more I think about it, the less likely a cult sounds.

I'm starting to suspect that there is, in fact, only one human (Jebus) and two more Blackwolves (not naming names just this second). I'd bet the human role is some kind of independent night killer who wins if ALL the wolves are dead.

[Porkens]

There is no way the scum is getting 2 kills with no night. I repeat there is no night. They wouldn't have a clue that a day was skipped so how would they get 2 kills when night actions have to be in before the end of the day lynch?

How hard would it be for the mod to send a PM saying: "gg, you get another night action"?

...

Seriously. Seriously.

unvote:
vote: Porkens

If he comes up scum I think partners with Septia at this point.

I don't see why this is vote-worthy, but at least you've had sense enough to take your vote off of Sept.

[Porkens]

The mod would lock the game for a bit. I don't see that happening...

So when I speculate on how the game works it's scummy but when you do it...?

how far you are willing to strench to keep septia alive

So why try to start a new wagon on me instead of keeping Sept at L-2?

[Porkens]

I just don't want to see Septia lynched today because, with the information we have now, it looks like a guaranteed lose for the town. Maybe the claim is BS and maybe she is scum, but today is not the day to gamble on that.

[Porkens]

Playing it safe I'd go with Raider. Balls to the wall I'd go with Jebus.

[Porkens]

Hasn't posted in 2 days, since we were L-1 on donkey

[Porkens]

@ Donkey: Cerb was asking

do you know when you use up your "first life"

?

@Farside: Honestly, I'd rather you did lynch me than Septia. I don't know if her claim is real or not, but to me, like I've said, it's not worth gambling on at the moment. However, when I flip town, you will have learned nothing about Septia.

[Porkens]

P.S.

FoS on Farside

for starting a wagon on me instead of sticking to the vote she really claims to believe in.

[Porkens]

P.S.

FoS on Farside

for starting a wagon on me instead of sticking to the vote she really claims to believe in.

A vote you are against and think is bad for the town. Right? Seriously if I could scream at you right now I would.

Wait wait wait, what are you saying here?

You agree with me that lynching Septia is too risky but you want to lynch me to prove that she is scum? You're not making any sense.


Also,

unvote: vote Jebus

There, now we can actually sort stuff out.


P.S. before twilite; If Jebus flips human, my suspects for the remaining blackwolves are Farside and Cerb/Raider/Sept. (depending on how night goes here)

[Porkens]

No I think you are wrong, but I think your logic beats anything I can put on paper myself. That is why I want to scream. [/b]

Well thanks for that backhanded compliment

If Jebus flips human how the hell do you suspect me. I f$#ing am a sniffer looking for humans. Are you telling me you doubt the role is in the game.

Sorry, sorry, I meant "blackwolf."

[Porkens]

now

I'll agree to a Septia lynch.

Vote: Septia

[Porkens]

I don't think Donkey (or Raider) is confirmed since Jebus was an SK and we haven't seen a maf power role yet.

Farside, to me, is clear now, but her check on Cereb isn't reliable.

Anyone feeling those "consequences" yet?

[Porkens]

Cerebus: If donkey got hit, we lynch raider. Wink Raider was supposed to take the hit.

Not quite; Raider said he hadn't "discovered" the Alpha yet, so he couldn't protect last night.

Septia: It would be better for the town to lynch you now than to give that option to the mafia later. With Jebus down, assuming 2 maf left, we can not loose even if there is a double night:

9 town total:
Lynch Sept: (-1)
NK Gurgi (-1)
NK Spyrex (-1)
Cass dies of starvation (-1)

that's 3 townies left to 2 maf.

That's IF your role is true, which enough people doubted yesterday to put you at L-2.

I guess what I'm saying is; talk fast.

[Porkens]

That's not a threat btw, if you ARE town (which you could be); tell us who you would recommend to lynch and why it would be a better move than voting you.

[Porkens]

number 1 actually makes sense if the scum did not send in a conditional for their NK. He did claim JOAT and was not apart of the major scum group.

That's true; they would have known he wasn't one of them. Interesting; maybe we should look at who wanted a Jebus lynch and why.

[Porkens]

At least if we kill you in the worst case we dont just explode.

No, he's right. If there are 3 more scum left, and if his role is true, lynching him would be a town loose.

[Porkens]

I'm just throwing this out there; Only me, cerb, spy, and sept seem to be posting at the moment; If we were to power-speed-lynch Sept (with his cooperation) we could deny the maf (assuming no one here is maf) a chance to send in any night actions.

[Porkens]

If we mislynch today, either way, town loss. Thats why I dont buy it.

Assuming 3 left? If we were to misslynch someone, the maf could shoot sept and then 50/50 for the last lover pair; essentially if we don't lynch sept, we are in the same situation we were yesterday.

[Porkens]

If you're town, hammer yourself. If not; send in your teams night action, then hammer yourself.

[Porkens]

You're not hammered yet. You'd need to do that yourself. We aren't asking for a defence, just alittle help if your town

[Porkens]

Septia: you know who I really think the other mafia are? Donkey and Raider. But really, really, it's in the best interest of the town to lynch you right now; ESPECIALLY if your telling the truth. Don't let the scum get TWO Night Actions in man, hammer yosef!

[Porkens]

I agree with you Septia, but you know if your town and the town wins...YOU win right? I will nominate you MVP if you hammer yourself and you are town.

[Porkens]

Septia for MVP!

Either WAY scum or maf: MVP

[Porkens]

I hope not.

[Porkens]

If there is no kill tonight;

Raider being fake would mean that town had: 2 sniffers and 1 JoaT, am I forgetting someone? That number of power roles seams likely.

Depending on what Sept. comes up if he was maf; a maf rolecop wouldn't seem extraordinary (esp. since Jebus was JoaT SK), so yeah I think Raider would be a good bet.

[Porkens]

That's a great question.

[Porkens]

Farside and Wall-E...?

or am i remembering wrong?

[Porkens]

Oh, by the way I was really the Jester. Thanks guys.

wow, I hope not...

If so, this is academic, but:

Town:

Townies:
M4yhem
SleepyPanda
Porkens
Cerebus

Lover pair/Masons:
SpyreX
Lord Gurgi
Cass
Grimmy

Power:
Wall-E (Tracker)
Battle Mage (Berserk)
donkeyz12212 (JoaT)
Farside22 (Sniffer)

Mafia

Goons:
CoheedCambria09
Septia (I'm guessing)

Power:
Raider (Rolecop/stalker...?) (just here for the sake of argument)

Independant Scum

Jebus (SK-JoaT)

The presence of the lovers makes up for a little here; but this estimate seems a bit unbalanced in the favor of town. It would make sense to me that there might be another Maf in our vanillas (that's you or me, cerb :p)

But, that's all speculation. If Sept. actually was town; we are looking for a pair. Then all my money is on Donkey and Raider.

[Porkens]

So Porkens, you're for a Raider lynch either way tomorrow?

I'd say yes at this point.

[Porkens]

Yes, I agree cereb. Let's try!

Vote: Raider

[Porkens]

We need 2 more

I gotta hit the sack guys, gl godspeed.

[Porkens]

No medal for 2/3 spyrex 6.0 for difficulty too...nice execution tho...

That last 4 days were so much fun.

Seriously though, NICE game! This was a very fun and intense.

Actually, i think it was well balanced for the most part. The reason it seemed a little unbalanced (I think) was because none of us were cool enough to actually set off any of the effects Jo set up.

I feel so bad for Jebus never getting a shot off

Jo, you're an excellent mod; and I loved the fast pace. Very, very nice to play in this game.

/pre-in for SWW IV (a new hope) !

...I hope I'm the Werewolf Princess this time...