SSW III: Game over

[Cass]

Hullo all.

Vote: Grimmy

because I replaced him once and his posts got me lynched

Btw, fyi, I use the word 'also' a lot in my posts.

[Cass]

Also, I assume the deadline is supposed to be

july

31, not august. Or it wouldn't be a very swift game...

Mod note:

Sorry about that, I'll back track and fix that!

[Cass]

Hm it seems worth a try. Allright, BM.

Unvote
Vote: Sleepy Panda

We don't want bears here, this town belongs to the wolves!

[Cass]

I'd guess SP is town. Battlemage probably as well. At least that's the feeling their actions up to now give me. I don't see the case on Wall-E, doesn't seem to me that he actually posted content.

On the other hand, the scum is most likely among those lying low, so he could be one.

Unvote Sleepy Panda

We need wagons, but I dislike voting someone just because everyone does, so I'll vote who's I think is scummiest:

Vote: M4yhem

[Cass]

Half-assed claims are pointless and annoying. And more importantly, no use to town at all.

Unvote
Vote: Wall-E

Claim, then, if you're so eager to.

[Cass]

Well, if he sees who people talk to I don't think it's a standard tracker? Don't they usually see who someone targets with their nightaction?

Anyway, I just wanted him to claim, so back to the scummiest. His weak defenses have not helped his case.

Unvote
Vote: M4yhem

@Wall-E: don't tell us now who you'll target (and don't target BM today). If your target knows you're coming and is scum, he'll just lay low for a night and we'll never be able to confirm you.

[Cass]

@BM: I wouldn't say he was made to claim for no reason. He softclaimed all by himself, nobody outed him. I agree it was silly and probably a bad idea, but the idea of claiming in the first place was all his own.

And I happen to think M4yhem is a lot scummier than Donkey or Cerebus, so I'm voting him. Contributing doesn't make someone immune to lynch - not that M4yhem has contributed much of anything to the scumhunt. Maybe a convincing defense (or a case on someone else) could change my mind; you pointing at two others certainly won't.

[Cass]

What Sleepy said. Plus his defense made me feel worse about him, not better.

[Cass]

@BM: I reread Donkey and Ceberus and your cases on them.

I get a null-read on Donkey, certainly not enough to lynch him with a much scummier M4yhem right here.

I actually think Ceberus is town and you're tunnelvisioning on him for some reason. From rereading his posts, he seems helpful and pro-town. In the fight between the two of you, sad to say, you come off as the scummier player. Although your behaviour is more consistent with aggresive townie. I currently see no need for FoSes - let alone votes - among the three of you.

[Cass]

Maybe he agreed with him? Maybe they're both scum? Who knows - I need more on Donkey before I can judge. Lynching M4yhem might also help with answering that question, don't you think?

Look, I'm not arguing that Donkey is town, he just hasn't posted enough for me to get a read on him. If that continues to be the case, he'll definitely rise on my scum-list. I much dislike lurkers.

Now, BM, how do you feel about the case on M4yhem and about the way he defended himself?

[Cass]

I'm willing to lynch him for lurking if he does it consistently. Meaning, not today, perhaps not tomorrow either. But if someone keeps lurking for days on end, I count it as scummy behaviour. For the rest:
- I don't call one scummy phrase a case,
- I see several scummy things in M4yhems posts (not even counting 'the phrase'),
- so I'm afraid we'll just have to disagree on this one.

[Cass]

I'm willing to lynch him for lurking if he does it consistently. Meaning, not today, perhaps not tomorrow either. But if someone keeps lurking for days on end, I count it as scummy behaviour. For the rest:
- I don't call one scummy phrase a case,

Neither did i. But lets face it, you've bandwagonned on much less.

Excuse me? I bandwagoned twice: first because I agreed with the quicklynch plan. Second to make Wall-E claim. I don't call that 'much less'. Less evidence, surely, but much bigger reasons.

- I see several scummy things in M4yhems posts (not even counting 'the phrase'),
- so I'm afraid we'll just have to disagree on this one.

I guess i'll just wait a few days and come back when half the town is dead then?

BM

*sigh* That is not at all what I'm saying. I will keep voting who I think is scummiest. And so should you. As soon as something happens that convinces me Donkey (or whoever) is scum, I'll vote them instead - and consistent lurking is only one of many things that could convince me. Can we stop this pointless discussion now?

[Cass]

@BM: Clearly you're not even reading my posts. You also seem to have a problem with people not sharing your opinions. I'm sorry, but I can't help you with that.

@All: My apologies for spamming this game with pointless bickering. I'll shut up for a while now.

[Cass]

This bandwagon is baseless. My behavior has been reckless maybe but not at all indicative of scum. You'd be better served by looking at the people voting for me, some of which also voted for Panda and Wall-E beside me and are therefore shameless hypocrites.

It is shamelessly hypocritical to vote for someone after you have already voted for someone else (for entirely different reasons I might add)? That would make playing this game pretty tough. It also implicates

all

of the active players (Btw, bandwagoning is not at all my reason for voting you. It is the way you jump on and off and the way you fail to defend your actions.)

M4yhem, you sound more and more desperate.

BM, try tunneling on M4yhem for a bit, might be more interesting. You can go back to Ceberus or Donkey tomorrow, as long as you stop f**king around with joke-claims or whatever that was supposed to be.

[Cass]

And what makes you so convinced of that?

[Cass]

Exactly what I did? I think I have been pretty clear on my reasons for being on each of the wagons. What is it you still fail to understand about my voting pattern? Because I'd be glad to explain. Again.

To me, Cerebus' reason to switch off Panda to Wall-E seems legitimate enough, even if I do not agree with it - it does make sense to lynch an inactive with the quicklynch idea -, and his responses to you are not particularly scummy. I couldn't say about Donkey, as I said he might be scum. For both players I'd need more evidence before I'd vote them.

[Cass]

Admittedly i havent read this case on him yet.

Copied for emphasis.

Admittedly i havent read this case on him yet.

*facepalm*

Ya, can't argue with that reasoning.

[Cass]

I think Donkey is pretty scummy. I did kind of like Spyrex'case on him, but what makes me most suspicious is his quick vote on Porkens today, with very little justification. He also has not done anything yet to help town.

I think Coheed is just lazy and acting stupid (a null-tell, ftr). I think Porkens might well be scum.

Vote: Donkey

@BM: what exactly convinced you that Ceberus should not be lynched after all? You seemed so sure of the case yesterday...

[Cass]

I dislike the way Wall-E plays today. The insults, but mainly the contrast with his play last day (confused newbie). I can only conclude that he votes BM because he tracked him last night (as he said he would) and BM went somewhere (while claiming he went nowhere).

Wall-E, if this is true you should tell us, or there's no way we're going to vote BM with you.

[Cass]

'seeing who someone targeted' is

not

the same thing as seeing who they talked to. All the scum talk to eachother (or are allowed to) all the time, in this particular game (in normal games only druing the night).

A tracker does the first thing, if you do the second thing I'd think you would have a different role name. All this + the whole thing with BM makes it very hard to believe you're not lying about

something

(though it is hard to tell about what...) I also find the interaction between you and BM quite scummy. But maybe you are trying to imply BM-town now that people have voiced doubt? Seems weird though, as you're also trying to clear him. Your actions simply make no sense!

Vote: Wall-E
FoS: BM

Why are people playing this game without reading it (Coheed) or reading the rules (Wall-E)?

@Wall-E - just in case you are not feigning your ignorance:
It is an abysmal idea to post your target in thread. It also means you are now no more confirmed than you were last day, and the same goes for BM. Because as soon as you name your target, and he is scum, he will retract any actions he sent in and ask his scumbuddy to send in the kill instead. Or if that's impossible, he might forgo the kill altogether - it is very valuable for scum to become confirmed townies!

[Cass]

Ebwop:

Unvote
Vote: Wall-E

[Cass]

If he insists on announcing his targets it isn't a loss at all

[Cass]

I'm not convinced BM is Wall-E's partner, if Wall-E is scum. He could be. Another scenario is that Wall-E saw this theory and decided to feed it by throwing more suspicion on BM, hoping to get another townie lynched.

Considering that scum can talk all the time in this game, I think the second scenario is more likely. We'll first need proof of Wall-E's alignment, though.

[Cass]

@Wall-E: please paraphrase the result the mod sent you after you investigated BM.

@Porkens: a safe-claim is a false claim that the mod gives to the scum, so they have a decent chance to fool the town. I think it is usually done in theme games, where people have the names of characters/persons and claiming 'Sauron' or 'Lord Bane' would be bad

[Cass]

Players who are completely MIA: Ace & Letsbefriends

Mod: Could you prod or replace them, please?

Players who should post a lot more (or at least more content): Coheed, Donkey, Empking, Septia.

Players who I'd like to hear from more: Grimmy, Lord Gurgi, Porkens, raider.

[Cass]

EBWOP: nevermind - looks like Ace was already replaced and letsbefriends was never in the game to begin with (??)

The rest of the post still stands.

[Cass]

Anything really. What I noticed about you is that your posts are very short and most of them aren't really scum-hunting. It's not a big deal (yet) and sure, I agree on the Wall-E lynch for today.

I wrote that list of names mostly for future reference.

[Cass]

What I find more suspicious is how quiet you were today... But yea, if he flips scum, you got a problem. If he flips town 1) He's pretty clueless 2) I'll have to reread his interactions.

[Cass]

I admit I was not pushing for the Wall-E vote because I wasn't sure waht exactly was going on and since it was Day 2 only, I didn't feel it was necessary to take out a roled character.

What? You were not sure what was going on, so what exactly led you to believe his claim? Also, did

anyone

think it was "necessary to take out a roled character"?? (Scum don't need to answer that one...)

Anyway, looks like Wall-E was not feigning the obliviousness after all. It'd be nice if from now on everyone could read the rules and the thread first, before doing something stupid

So, does this mean the scum actually bought the claim? And the 'confirming' of BM? Or were the scum the people calling for quicklynch?

FoS: Donkey
FoS: Lord Gurgi, Coheed & raider

[Cass]

Does anyone know what a 'vengeful berserk' does, exactly? A kind of vig? And why is there only one corpse, didn't he send in a nightchoice or something?

[Cass]

Well, Wal-E wasn't making any sense, so voting him wasn't scummy. But those who tried to end the day quick could be scum. as soon as the scum have decided on a nightkill, they'll want to end the day, at least if there's a townie already on the chopping block.
I would have liked to get some more information out of Wall-E and BM before that day ended. Many of my questions were still unanswered, which I think this is the way scum likes the day to end.

A different theory is that the scum hasn't been online for a while and sent in their nightchoice a while ago, when Wall-E was more credible. Do you think that's more likely?

[Cass]

I'm pretty sure you can't send in choices

after

the hammer, so that doesn't make a lot of sense. If sent in early, it might have been an conditional: lynch wall-e, if dead lynch BM. That makes sense if they sent it in early and never overrided it.

[Cass]

I find it telling how aggressive raider responds to being called a lurker.

I find it suspicious how Porkens tries to throw dirt on a whole lot of players at the same time. Distraction? Smoke-screen? and Porkens, being on both wagons just means that Spyrex and I are two of the most active players here. Not being on those wagons probably means lurking.

Coheed, Donkey and Septia also (still) look bad. Neither of them seems to be actually reading the game. Maybe they are... but their posts don't prove it.

But the lurker that gives me the worst vibe is farside. She stays under the radar much too much.

Vote: Farside22

[Cass]

My top three scummy right now are (in no particular order): Coheed, Donkey and Lord Gurgi. I lean town on Spyrex, Porkens and Cerebus, they seem to be honestly scum hunting. No strong opinions on the others.

And yes, everyone who mentioned this, I get on bandwagons. I have been quite open and honest about it to, always gidving my reasons. Which why what i did isn't the same as what M4yhem and other scummy people did. But I'll repeat for the hard of reading:
- I voted Panda because I agreed with the quicklynch plan.
- I voted M4yhem because he was the scummiest player I could see.
- I voted Wall-E because he made no sense.
Did I forget anyone? Oh yes, I'll not vote Coheed yet. He does seem scummy, but it could be lack of reading the game. I'd prefer a Donkey or Gurgi lynch today.

Unvote
Vote: Donkeyz12212

[Cass]

Yes, Cerebus, I'd like some explanation... I think Gurgi is scummy too, but you seem to think you've got proof there? Please explain?

Donkey: Your posts show that you do not read the game carefully, you vote based on 'I did not read this or that' -
a) this is harmful to town, even if you are town
b) if scum, you might use this to hide opportunistic votes.

Perhaps you just skim the game, and vote whatever you scumbuddie(s) tell you to vote. I have not seen any scum-hunting from you yet.

[Cass]

My win condition has no wolf pack in it, so while reading that I thought Spyrex washonest and Cerebus lying. But it seems there are two differently phrased town win conditions around. (That, or all the scum just outed themselves :p ) So, it actually confirms Cerebus as town, and Spyrex too.

I still have a bad feeling about Farside, too much lurking. But the Coheed lynch is good, I think. I reread all his posts (doesn't take long), and it really looks bad.

Unvote
Vote: CoheedCambria

[Cass]

If you think it benefits town, now would be the time.

[Cass]

Also your explanation seems to be:
- I don't read carefully and because of that I do scummy things (...yea)
- this game moves to fast for me (please read the name of this game)

[Cass]

I don't call you scum for your votes, it's the way you (don't) explain your votes.

"I agree with all the reasons" or "I believe (all) the claim(s)" hold no weight unless you explain

why

you agree or believe. I could say the above anythime, no need to even read the game. So that's my point - nowhere in your posts do I see

evidence

that you are paying attention to the game.

For example: please give your opinion on the current controversy about the town win condition. Do you have a theory on why Battle Mage was NK'ed last night? What exactly convinced you last day that Wall-E should be lynched?

If you claim something confirmable, I might unvote you. Best hurry though, the deadline is nearing.

[Cass]

Btw I would really like to hear more from Grimmy, feels like he's been gone from the game for a long time now...

[Cass]

You decided not to claim then?

[Cass]

Yes, that wasn't a terribly impressive claim. I think the votecount is now Coheed 4, Porkie 4.

That means a random one of them gets lynched.

So everyone, be sure of your vote, deadline is in half an hour... I think. (Timezones confuse me.)

[Cass]

Unconvincing. I reread Porkens and I don't see the scumminess. I definitely do not want to lynch him over Coheed. Keeping his vote on Wall-E is a very weak scumtell at best. For one, I doubted the claim itself from the beginning, with the vague way he explained it. I don't think I took my vote off him either - I certainly never dropped my suspicion.

So why not vote me? Do you think I'm town? Or is it that Pork conventiently had three votes on him already, and you hope nobody else will come in before deadline?

[Cass]

Farside, I haven't called any claim outright scummy. Wall-E made no sense with his "I don't know what my role does, lol, I can see whot people talk to, i think I'm a seer, no wait I'm a tracker, I see what people do and I think it's useless". That I could excuse as confused newbie. But then he insisted on calling out his targets during the day, making him absolutely useless as a tracker. And he refused to listened to all the explanantion of why that was such a horrid idea. On top of that, he indeed tracked BM, confirming nothing and nobody and acted like a lunatic all day. There is a limit to what can be forgiven as clumsiness...
Note in all that, I never called the claim itself scummy.

As for Coheed, his claim isn't very scummy, but it doesn't save him either. If he made a convincing case on someone, maybe. But as I said, the claim isn't impressive.

[Cass]

ebwop: ack, apologies for all the typos in that post.

[Cass]

Farside, claims mean lots to me. We just haven't had any convincing ones this game. A black wolf? That could throw a new light on the village/wolf pack debate. Don't think so, to be honest, but I thought i should mention it. Also, this means either the enemy isn't humans, or there's more than one enemy. Troubling.

My main suspects now are Farside and Lord Gurgi. I think Farside was bussing last day. While also throwing dirt on me and Porkens (I'm convinced Pork isn't Coheed's buddy after that display). Yet she votes Donkey now.

Vote: Farside

[Cass]

@Spyrex: that's a weird claim. Is there any way that could be helpful to town?

[Cass]

Well joy.

I'm indeed a cub aka mason. An unhappy cub now this game is so confusing. I don't know why I wouldn't know who my own mommy is and my bestest friend is also dead

But seriously: there aren't 'a lot of power roles' really. Two she-wolves (if it's true) and a princess actually nerf the town. Also a human-sniffer when there are wolfish enemies. I would hope the scum isn't powred on to of all that...

[Cass]

My flavor btw is that we are small and therefore the parents don't pay much attention to us and we can sneak off to talk. Not that Grimmy talked much (Reread my posts from yesterday and you see me hinting at that not too subtly.)

I do think there's two scumgroups tbh. There seem to be some (one-shot) BP's around (or have been), and maybe they can't cross-kill or something. The one kill per night could just be coincidence.

[Cass]

Ok, after all of that confusion and chaos, my shot in the dark is that Septia, Cerebus and farside look worst. Not at all sure of that, just guessing. However, before all the claiming I was really starting to think Spyrex and Gurgi were scum, together. And with both of them with the dubious and unpleasant (for me ) she-wolf claim, I am not ready to dismiss that possibility yet. So much wifom in considering their lynch alone...

[Cass]

Oh, I had quite forgotten about the vote... there was no risk of a lynch anyway. Still, until we get some conclusions:

Unvote

My PM did not confirm him, but the mod did in our quicktopic thread. So yes, we were confirmed town to eachother.

Mason scum?? Now that would be bastard modding

[Cass]

@Spyrex: this is why I called your claim weird and asked for the use of it in the first place, just after you claimed. Frankly, I still don't see the use of it. But I assume you didn't consider that both masons were cubs? (Despite the role name!)

[Cass]

Thanks farside, that princess didn't sit right with me, but you just put the finger on why. It plain doesn't fit in with how this game works and I can't see the mod putting it in. (Unless it works radically different than usual?)

For a scum, though, it seems a nice and threatening claim.

- The alpha + protector could be a scum team, but I don't think so.
- The two she-wolves could be a scum team. Their claims are so not helpful for town.

[Cass]

Mkay. This set-up is strange. I think I believe Donkey and Porkens right now. Really unsure about the rest.

Farside

claims wolf vs. human cop.
N1, Cerebus, not human. N2, no one. N3, Gurgi, not human.

Donkey

, didn't get the point of claiming. Sorta claims Alpha, eventually. Tracker, un NK-able.
N2, watched Cerebus, saw nothing. N3 rolecop Cass mason.
Says Gurgi, Septia, Jebus are scum. Raider cleared, Cass cleared, Cerebus mostly cleared. Thinks Jebus is lying.

Jebus:

attacks Gurgi from the moment he enters. Claims jack of all trades, no results. Attacks donkey now.

Raider:

claims as quick as he can (or so it looked to me). looks scummy in general. Claims Alpha protector.

- Cerebus could still be a rival (black) werewolf.
- Jebus could be a

scum

jack of all trades (black wolf possibly)

@Donkey: do you think Spyrex is honest and Gurgi opportunistic lying scum? More important question: did you

track

or

watch

Cerebus? (You contradict yourself.)
@Jebus: what's a nexus?? Can you use more than one power per day/night?
@Raider: a repeat, but:

how

do you find the alpha?

[Cass]

And for completeness and clearness' sake.

Cass

claims mason.

Spyrex

&

Gurgi

claim she-wolf. I don't know who my mommy is I'm a confused little cub

Porkens

&

Cerebus

claim vanilla.

Septia

claims princess.

There could well be one or more liars in that group.

[Cass]

@Donkey: can you say more about those 'consequenses' you have been threatening us with?

[Cass]

I mentioned Porkens , twice even. However, thinking about it - I guess he could still be a human, just not a black wolf. So scrap the 'confirmed' for now.

[Cass]

1) Killing me

does not

confirm Spyrex or Gurgi. I find it very suspicious that he suggested this. Nobody counterclaimed mason, so there's really no reason to doubt my claim.

2) About me/Grimmy being confirmed to eachother: my pm said (not litterally), 'the second child in town'. Now, this lefft some doubt, because he could have been a human child theoretically, with that wording. But the quicktopic thread said 'werewolf cubs' specifically. So he's a wolf and lives in town, so am I, good enough for me.

3) I will not cooperate in lynching the Alpha. Is donkey voting himself?? Unvote, you idiot. It's all scum on your wagon.

4) I don't like Spyrex' logic lately. God. Read his and Gurgi's posts this day! So very eager to lynch the Alpha, getting the win. They're not even trying to hide it anymore.

This is my guess. Well, I'm quite sure actually:

Scumgroup 1: Coheed, Gurgi & Spyrex. (Black wolves)
Human group: Jebus & Septia

I think our best bet is to lynch Jebus (he seems dangerous) and investigate Septia. Perhaps Donkey should roleblock one of Gurgi and Spyrex. Either way, any powers should be used on those three, to the discretion of the PR's.

Vote: Jebus

[Cass]

Ok, explain how two dead cubs would

prove

that the two she-wolves are true??

How about this scenario: Spyrex + Gurgi (scum) see a dead cub (mason). Now, there tend to be two masons = two cubs. So, why not claim she-wolf? And pretend that the presence of the cubs proves it's true! I don't buy it. I'd think me and Grimmy would at least have known that we had mothers (who, apparantly, we needed to survive!).

Because look how eager they are to kill the Alpha and most important role in town!

Porkens and all the doubters: Donkey confirms me, I and Raider soft-confirm Donkey. While Donkey has claimed in a clumsy way, it sounds like honest confusion to me, not evil cunning. Raider also seems honest, his role makes more sense as the truth than as a lie. As far as I am concerned, all three of us (me, raider, donkey) are confirmed until something causes reasonable doubt. I have not seen that thing.

Spyrex and Gurgi are aggressively abusing Donkey's confusion tro get rid of the most dangerous wolf.

I think Jebus is a

human

hero, come to rid the world of werewolves. he might have a partner, they would be (one, I think) of Septia, Cerebus, Porkens and Farside.

Because look at what Spyrex wants us to do:
1) Lynch the Alpha, our biggest asset, in order to 'prove that raider is or isn't scum'. Think about the logic behind that for a while.
2) Tells the vig to shoot me, a confirmed townie, to 'prove he and Gurgi are for real'. Once again, my death doesn't prove that!!

Look at the end result of this plan, assuming they are scum. Far-fetched, huh? I don't think so!

(Let me predict: Donkey flips Alpha. I am NK-ed. S+G: "Oh my, raider must be town then. How sad he is now useless. Wait, that means Jebus was lying. Lynch him, quick! Luckily, the dead cub confirms us, how nice for town." Jebus flips human. Raider gets NK'ed. S+G: "Oh, great, we got scum!" They can also explain easily why they don't get NK'ed - they're basically vanillas!)

[Cass]

My role PM mentions no she-wolf. The only one I

know

I was tied to is Grimmy (who's dead). The tying there is entirely one-sided.

[Cass]

@farside: you are grouped with town for now. You could be a human, but I find that an unlikely option.
Where did I mention two mason groups??
I didn't say Donkey confirms raider, I don't want donkey to flip

anything

. We shouldn't lynch him! I just said that's what the scum will say - because with Donkey dead, they have no need to kill raider anymore.

What's so incredibly convincing about the roles i don't buy, as compared to those I do?
What's so very improbably about my scenario?

And most importantly: I am a confirmed mason! Wth would I want a townie out? (Or explain how I'm not confirmed...)

[Cass]

@Farside: that's why he's a black wolf in my scenario... I agree with ypou on Septia, something's off there. The sniffer you claim is quite possible. But it was also in the older games, so it's and easy scum-claim. My gut says you're town, though. I'm very willing to give you a night to confirm yourself.
Please answer my questions in post 918.

@Porkens: is it really so hard to find the words 'see' 'you' and 'be', and call them a breadcrumb? (Rare words, huh?)
Donkey named me as the mason, long before everyone had claimed (while I was attacking him, if I remember correctly). How could he have known my exact role?
I think Donkey is stumbling, it just doesn't smell scummy to me. He's been a weak player from the start.
Do you agree on lynching Jebus today? We can reevaluate Donkey and everyone else tomorrow, with hopefully more evidence.

Now, another possibility is Gurgi, Spyrex and Farside are the humans. Jebus is a second black wolf. This makes lynching Jebus an even better move.

My proposal is we lynch Jebus today and hope more people are confirmed tomorrow, so we can work from there.

[Cass]

@Farside: nothing wrong with that. I could certainly be wrong.

But nobody has explained yet why my theory is

insane

. It follows a clear line of logic, and no impossible assumptions. Just tell me then which assumptions make no sense. (Not counting 'the fact that I'm scum'.)

And don't ask for 'evidence'. How the hell would I have evidence? Do you have evidence that Donkey is scum?

@Gurgi: what about the baseline: lynch Jebus? Gives you and Spyrex a chance to get confirmed.

@Spyrex: do you think it's possible Gurgi is a scum copycat? He claimed after you, after all, and has no breadcrumbing evidence.

[Cass]

Yes, I think that's what Tracker does. Sounds like a decent plan.

[Cass]

@Gurgi: yes, actually I left a pretty strong hint, reread my posts please. Also, I'm basically a vanilla townie now, just trying to get the town through this. It is confusing, so I'm going with what makes the most sense to me and carries the smallest risk. Any issues with that? Do you think Jebus' claim is true?

[Cass]

@Porkens: four confirmed townies, in that case, who can all be killed in only two hits. So I'm not sure that's conclusive evidence. The drawbacks seem as big as the pros. (Disclaimer: This speculation does not mean I accept the claims.)

[Cass]

I would prefer to lynch a scum today

Spyrex, I'm willing to assume you are honest for now. I'm less sure of Gurgi. He has seemed scummy to me for a long time and he's really buddying up to you now. He could easily have copied your claim, it wasn't hard to conclude there were two cubs. Yes, this would make him either a black wolf or Farsides buddy.

Lynches I can see for today:

-

Jebus.

I prefer this one muchly, because I'm

convinced

he's scum (upping the number of vigs, so he can get away with NK-ing until the end?). Keeping my vote on him.

-

Gurgi.

This potentially risks my own life, and even if he flips mafia, would that prove anything about me or Spyrex? Not really, I think. If he flips human, it implicates Farside. Less than optimal lynch.

-

Septia.

I think she's scum, but lynching her is risky. I'd rather see her confirmed some other way.

-

Raider.

Hype of the day. I don't want it, because I believe his claim. He's not just an Alpha-doc, he's also an Alpha-finder. And that makes a lot of sense to me. I am, of course, assuming that Donkey is real. I do not want to lynch a townie to confirm a townie, when we can also lynch scum... (Don't forget night can also confirm some of us.)
I do not quite trust those who want the Alpha less protected. Remember the BP is one-shot only. BattleMage probably had that as well, and he died night two...

[Cass]

@Gurgi:

Cass, this guy keeps pulling new powers out of his nether regions, and it's either some of the most horrible play I've ever seen as town, or some of the most horrible play I've ever seen as scum. So far I'm thinking that he's trying to make himself as horrible to lynch on the slight chance he isn't lying as he can.

True, and it looks quite bad. But on the other hand, if he was scum, wouldn't he just have claimed Alpha from the start, without stumbling? Besides, Jebus does the same thing... and Donkey is at least trying, as opposed to Jebus, who seems to be lurking through this day (some hero...)

Cass, the reason that I am refusing to consider your logic is that it is formulated on the foundation of SpyreX and myself being scum. Not formulated based on evidence then coming to that conclusion.
Also, I am going to spell this out once and for all. Cass is only a confirmed mason, not confirmed pro-town. I can't say why Cass is taking this as a reason to go insane.

Assuming someone is scum and reasoning from that assumption is by no means insane at this point of the game. In fact, everyone is doing it... And no, I am not confirmed pro-town... but if I am mafia, wouldn't my mommy be in the mafia too? (Btw, my win condition says 'village'.)

Cass, I can't point out where your logic goes wrong, because there isn't any to begin with, you accuse us of being scum because you don't buy our claim, and yet on the next page you accuse me of lying because SpyreX was bread crumbing and I wasn't. That's a blatant conflict.
Consider this from the mod's perspective, do you tell the masons that there are two other town roles? Why not after all, the only downside is the possibility of 4 connected, confirmed, pro-town roles. Can you come up with a single feasible reason that you would be told of the existence of the She-wolf(s)?

Denying I'm logical feels like OMGUS, coming from you. I am still considering all options. My first instinct was the tow of you were in this together. Then I considered that he's always been much less scummy than you, so perhaps you are scum buddying to him. He has breadcrumbing evidence, making his claim stronger. If I'd lynch one of you, it would be you. There's no conflict, I'm just not tunnelvisioning.
Maybe gamebalance-wise it'd make no sense to tell us, but flavour-wise I would expect at least a hint. (Though perhaps the hint was to have been when one of us suddenly died :p )

She said I was not human. And that logic is easily derailed by any number of factors, including you being non-human scum.

This is the first big town-tell I got from you

She uses conflicting logic, specifically she says she doesn't believe Spyrex and Myself's claim, and then says she doesn't believe mine because I didn't bread crumb like SpyreX. I would like her to comment on the recent formation of a wagon on her.

Not conflicting logic, just various lines of reasoning. As you do (unless you're scum...) Yes, I believe Spyrex' claim more than yours, I already explained why. I hardly see a wagon on me. One vote? (Or was it two?) I liked how short-lived it was I think lynching me would be bad, because whatever I flip (and I promise I'll flip exactly what Grimmy flipped), it confirms nothing and nobody and we're a townie down.

[Cass]

@Septia & Jebus: what was the flavour that came with your role? Who do you think we should lynch, and why?

[Cass]

Sorry for the monologue, people, trying to keep things a bit ordered.

cerebus3 wrote:
Why not septia?

Septia's claim wasn't quite a power role, but it's like lynching a power role. If (s)he dies, the maf get two kills, instead of one.

How interesting that you explain Septia's role for her. How come you know the mechanism behind it so well?

2nd) What's the difference between watching and tracking?

You can track yourself... and you don't know what it does? Odd. I'd think you would have asked the mod by now, or looked at the wiki, or, you know, read the game...

My role name is Wolven Hero

Huh, I'd expect it to be

Werewolf

hero. Actually, I expect it to be

Human

hero...

@ Septia accusation - I'm a little scared to call his bluff (or truth as it may be), I may end up using my rolecop/tracker on him/her.

Just posting this here to look at later.

I'm also on the fence about Raider and Cerebus.
Cass's roleclaim could be vital, and after (s)he claims, I'll explain.

I don't think you ever did?

His original claim:

I'm a wolven hero whose taken it upon myself to rid the town of scum, aka a vig/jack-of-all-trades. In my role, it said specifically that I notice, including humans, there is another rival wolf clan circling the area. Clan = cult, I'm guessing.
So humans or the black-back clan (as the most recent nk has shown) are the regular mafia and the other is a cult. There's also the possibility that their night-kill abilities switch off.

He's the only one who had something about rival wolves in his role pm. The he starts specualting about cult. Something feels wrong about this whole post, but I can't quite put my finger on it. i also dislike how he isn't convinced Donkey is scum, yet supports his lynch. Pushes it, even. This was still early in the day.

So, yes, I'm happy about my vote on Jebus.

[Cass]

Didn't you say your PM says that your mothers don't pay much attention to you or something, it's a stretch, but I suppose the mod might have thought it was strong enough, without being confirmation, that is.

Yes, perhaps. As I said, I don't want to lynch you or Spyrex today. I'll drop the case until tomorrow when we might know more; there's at least one better lynch now.

[Cass]

Septia: She went aggressively after Wall-E from the moment she came in, calling him mafia numerous times. Doesn't talk about anything or anyone else for a while.
Thinks Porkens is not suspicious. Votes Coheed for being oportunistic.

And like I said, Wall-E is probably the scummiest innocent I've ever seen. And I didn't just hop on a bandwaggon, I was against his claim since I read it, which if I was indeed scum I most likely wouldn't put myself out there like that.

Weird conflicting logic in this quote. He was extremely scummy but if she was scum she wouldn't have acted like him? huh?

Two scum groups? Oh damn, we aren't in too good of a position if that is true.

Yes, the human heroes facing two wolf clans is bad for them indeed...

The massclaim idea seems like it could hurt town more than help it, but you guys probably know more than me. So if were going to do it I'm all for it.

Could be a sign she is honest, I'm not sure.

I'm the werewolf princess. After I die, day or night, the next day phase will be skipped.

This still doesn't sound convincing at all, and makes no sense in the context of this game.

We can't afford to make wrong lynches at this point. No matter what my role is, you would still be killing off an innocent.
I did what you guys told me to, I claimed. What about the others that didn't tell their roles? I'm going to be punished for followint the massclaim plan?

Huh? The first two sentence are just weird. Is she implying she lied about her role? How does she know we can't afford a mislynch?
And the second part is also very strange, as everyone had claimed by this point! And the last sentence sounds like a scum-tell to me... ('punished'? wth?)

Donkeyz has clearly been lying this whole time. Claiming like 10 different roles then finally the alpha wolf witch to me could also be a lie? there's only one way to find out.

And then votes him. Feels opportunistic to me.

I think Septia is a human with Jebus.

[Cass]

@Spyrex:

Our two Jack of all Trades: If your role specifically mentions two scum groups... WHY didn't you say anything?

QFT.

You investigated Cass and got her alignment AND role in one investigation?

Well, my role is werewolf cub (aka Mason), so it's not that strange. Could still be scum rolecop, of course.

Jebus
Reasons For Lynch
Duplication of a JoaT is hard to stomach. Say's pro raider lynch regardless of alignment. On top of Joat has 2 vig kills (strange). Has used no actions (parially blamed on Empking who, of course, was scummy).
Reasons Against Lynch
Ultimately, if Donkey is lynched and IS town, there isn't going to be room to hide. The Devil IS in the details and the addition of vig kills and nexus, to me, seems unnecessary as a scumclaim.

That's why I'm assuming he's a human hero (JoaT with nightkills...).

Notice all I asked you is if you were mod-confirmed because that, to me, also clears Gurgi. Now I said that if someone doesn't believe us (even though I do), shooting you makes sense - you being scum, to me, means that one of us has to be scum.

How does that clear Gurgi? There could still be only one she-wolf. There is also no way to prove right now that I'm mod-confirmed. And if I am a scum mason, why would that prove one of you is scum too?

Why, if it doesn't clear either of us, are you going after me far more than LG?
Why, of course, did you assume it was ALL scum on Donkey's wagon?
How would lynching the Alpha, if he was telling the truth, get us the win?
Why would there be 6 scum total in the game?
Why would the black wolves have 4 members, the town two AND your lynch choice being of the smaller group?

I am not, as far as I'm aware. I have always called Gurgi scummier.
Because I was then working with the theory that you two were a scum pair and wanted to off Donkey quickly... (Which would make sense!)
Because he's the one townie with (some) NK immunity, and thus the player the scum would want lynched first. As an added bonus, his death would make raider a vanilla.
I don't think I said that? Five was my highest estimate, I think. Right now, I thnik it's five or maybe four. (I don't even want to think about cults.)
I never said Black wolves have 4 members. Two or three is my guess. Lynching the smaller group is usually smart, for it might eliminate a nightkill for the rest of the game. One scumgroup is better than two.

[Cass]

Hm, ok. If I assume two she-wolves and a cub (me), that's three townies, basically all vanillas, but with some added risk for town of losing two at a time. I'm also believing Donkey and raider. That's one big town power role, and a weak protector for that role.

The two players that look very scummy are Jebus and Septia. Lynchings and/or investigations urgently needed.

That leaves Farside, a claimed human-sniffer, and two vanillas: Cerebus & Porkens.

If

my first two paragraphs are true, I'd expect one or two scum among these three.

That would make a credible set-up, all in all. I still say we lynch Jebus, let Farside, raider and Donkey do their thing and move on based on the night results.

If anyone thinks this is a bad course of action, please explain to me why.

[Cass]

I still want jebus to tell us more about his flavor. He also fo the most part ignored my case on him. He refuses to call raider and Donkey liars, yet i can't see both roles (him & Donkey) being town. All those leaning to Donkey being honest, do think it's possible we have an Alpha

and

a Hero? Do you not see the scumtells I found on Jebus?

It's not that I am against the Septia lynch (though I'd really love her to come in and defend herself before we decide!), Jebus just seems a safer bet. But if everyone doesn't agree, I guess I'll just hope town gets lucky on this one

[Cass]

Spyrex, your plan isn't bad, but I fear we have to assume two nightkills, which makes it hella risky. Plus I'd rather lynch someone who I'm convined is scum.

[Cass]

At best, Jebus is a vig

who I cannot trust

. Yes, I'd prefer to lynch a power role actually, he's going to hurt us bad tonight if we leave him alive. His results tomorrow will only cause a boatload of wifom. Even if he is town, a very scummy vig running around in town will not allow me to sleep easy...

[Cass]

Spyrex, your plan isn't bad, but I fear we have to assume two nightkills, which makes it hella risky. Plus I'd rather lynch someone who I'm convined is scum.

Like I said before; it is possibly Mylo if the scum get 2 NKS and they hit the right she-wolf.

Yes, true, so what do you suggest we do about it?

[Cass]

Ok, raider quicklynched. Good, I guess. I hope he shows up as an Alpha protector and confirms donkey.
I'd guess there's one wolf left: Cerebus, Porkens, or Farside. Being absent implicates Farside, but the scum could have done that on purpose, if it´s one of the other two. I´d like to hear from Donkeyz actually, see if he had a result when he watched someone...

[Cass]

Also, I´m very happy to see Septia was indeed a liar! Maybe we should look at everyone who opposed a Septia lynch, see if anyone stands out.

[Cass]

Awesome! And my mommy is still alive! Yay! Celebrate! I think this is my first finished game where I survived

I was at first quite happy to get the mason pm. Less so when Grimmy turned out to be a lurker who hardly talked to me or in thread, even less when I learned about the one-way lovers. That last one really was a bit of bastard moddery

I do wonder why the scum killed Grimmy - I actually kinda expected they would go for me. (Which is why I left a link to Grimmy.)

And I am really really happy everyone listened to me (eventually) about Jebus!

[Cass]

Yes, raider, that was a good claim! I really thought the last wolf was one of the vanillas (but I still would have hammered you if I had come in earlier )