Guns & Roses IV [Game Over]

[votato]

what does it tell you about how hard its been to lynch the two of them?

[votato]

edit: what does it tell you that its been so hard to lynch them?

[votato]

im digging for quotes in another tab. spoiler alert: every time maria mentions either lilith or ayeboat its hedged with a lilith/farside or eyteot/votato. whenever she mentions someone who flipped town theyre alone or paired with a scummer. She wants us to 100% go after town and 50-50 in scum. marias iso is long, itll take a while.

[votato]

the game is over today anyway, right?

nah, its not. if we lynch scum, scum cant kill me tonight so as long as we lynch scum tomorrow too, we win.

[votato]

I also lowkey think you might be spewing that you killed vecna and that's why you're upset that ABR is pushing you as scum while modelling that as the vig kill

If you think I'm stupid enough to make that kind of rookie mistake.
I just don't see why scum would shoot chk here that seems dumb to me

you dont see why scum would shoot your top townread?

[votato]

please forgive me. this is very long. tl;dr: hedges scumbuddies by pairing them with a town. posts are mainly fluff/iioa. repeatedly gives thoughts about who might be scum, but never has reasons why. votes are all over the place, and theres no evidence of thought progression.

Spoiler:

I've never once not once tried to start an argument with you. I've wanted to engage and talk with you because we both scumread each other and I want to deal with that because I love doing that. You misrep certain things I say. You think I'm scummy or say stuff that's wrong about you. So why can't we talk like civilized people? I don't know why that's so hard.

Who tries to start an argument? Where's the fun in that? Even if you think I'm scum who tf does that? All I've wanted to do was engage with you but you ignore me all the time because you know, you were a popular townread and sometimes in the back of my mind I go 'maybe I'm wrong let's talk with her' but no I can't even do that. I do think you're scum because the way you treat this is just ugh. I get your meta is death tunneling from what I hear but ignoring the player you death tunnel? I don't get it.

I'ma take a break from the thread I shouldn't let 2 people ruin my mood when the rest of the playerlist is fine.

I tried engaging you. I got the run around response repeatedly.
Why would i want to bang my head on that again with a deadline 32 hours away?
I offered my own lynch and the only thing you did was tunnel on me and smear my name to others when i wasn't here.
Then when i come back you become catty again, so no im not going to interact with someone who is accusing me of something they are doing themselves.
I can step back and reassess this game for a town win.
That is my goal right now.
If your town vote cakez.

I haven't tried to give you a run around, I just think you're not satisfied with some of my answers or some of the things I consider answers you don't.
We've both smeared each others named and called each other scum the whole game day and obviously we both don't like that. I don't tunnel people nor do I want to. That's why I wanted to talk with you but when I feel like I kept getting shut down I just go 'welp'
If I'm getting catty please point it out and let me know so I can stop because if I am it's not on purpose. In my own eyes I've been pretty calm and logical besides a few moments of annoyance that you all know about.
If people want to scumread me cool fine that's dandy. But I'd at least like if people talked to me.
VOTE: Cakez

a vote with no reasoning. the post is about something totally different.

As tempting as it is to fake a scumread on Cakez and act like I've seen the heavens I still think he's town and this is a horrible situation regardless.

this is the closest thing in the iso to a reason for voting cakez. and she actually says she townreads cakez. i dont know why no one called this out sooner tbh.

Ok fire what ruzzles your jimmies about me? Why am I a scumlord? You say you can't read me but you've had your vote on me a lot of the day.

If the answer is you just want me out of the game I will accept that

ur too nice right now and ur actually trying to communicate with me rather than just dismiss me.

Never have u done that as town.

I don't believe this is town u.

I don't think the impression you have of me is nearly close to accurate

in firebringer we trust. he has had good reads to this point.

Vecna
Lilith/Farside
Eyescott/Votaro

(Chkflip)

that's where I'm at for now

here begins the scum in 50-50, with a town by themselves. also, i didnt notice this on first readthrough, but here chkflip is scumlist, later on, chkflip is the only confident townread maria says she has.

I really wish Votato or Eyescott were shot last night over Cakez. This game would've felt so much easier but, no point in whining about that now.

Why do people sr my most confident townread?

i believe here her "most confident townread" is chk. in either case, she again ties me to eyescott, trying to get us to lynch a 50-50 in there.

Chkflip is my most confident townread. (Vecna your theory!!!)

I can't say I don't think you're scum, but I was/am in a spot where you could probably convince me to vote anyone that isn't Chk. Some I just feel a lot more confident on than others. Don is saying he shot farside so rn I'm looking at Lilith/Vecna/ 1 of you/Eyescott.

yeah, notice how chkflip is suddenly the most confident townread. no progresion from being on the scumlist just a few posts before.

VOTE: Vecna

vote with no reasoning.

Vecna this is the current problem I have, let us just ignore the other day because that's beating a dead horse.

Your mindset here doesn't really seem towny to me. Hell, you even stated the reason why. We don't know the spot of the game we're in we could be in auto loss could be fine could be who knows. But, you're so worried about your own lynch and own viewpoints instead of putting out your scumreads. We have 3 ics who can talk over reads and 1 that has a gun.

Giving out your scumreads right now is what we need to do and talk it over because end of the day it's 3v7 and I would like to think most of us are logical enough to relook at the game if needed. So what are these reads of yours

this is the closest thing to reasoning for a vecna vote. seems pretty hedgy.

Im surprised that you or anyone else would think I actively go about attacking our ICs though. Without a plan to back that up. Ive been constantly stuck in the mindset that scum WOULD eventually cc the gun guys, because not doing so is just not sensible. Why give everyone a 50% PoE when we have a lynch and another gunshot? Having 1 person do a proper gun claim changes the odds to hit scum to 25% in the gunpool and 33% in the rose pool. its a fucking stupid scum strategy, but they sure got me to look like a buffoon by using the suboptimal approach.

In my mind I have liked a few of your posts today, but that's more on the logic of I think if you're town here you're playing the game horribly. You'd have to misrep a ton of things and have logic that I would just...never expect to come from town you because it's so bad. It's more of a respect thing and your actions making more sense than anything else. I would flip to 1 of Votato/Eyescott if the other is vigged. Or just Lilth, but none of those are happening at the moment.

again hedges me and eyescoot. this is the only instance of either eyeuih or lilith being mentioned without a townie next to them.

VOTE: Eyestott

Your move maria

Oh boy
VOTE: Eyescott

If Ico shoots votato if this flips town I'm fine with it

solid logic behind that vote, tbf. also this is the second post in a row where maria encourages ico to shoot me. seems unlikely therefore that maria could be my scumbuddy. in which case perhaps we should lynch maria today because it would further clear me for tomorrow.

NO

noone shoots votato

Even if eyescott is town?
Weren't you the one who agreed with me one of them has to be scum or did I take your post the wrong way?

again pushing to shoot me.

NO

noone shoots votato

they can shoot me tonight if they want .

i have this awful feeling that somehow ABR is scum and a town gun fucked up.

This is scummy as hell

VOTE: Votato
Let me just give a bit of incentive

not sure what this incentivizes, but again, not much reasoning behind a vote/sheeping ABR's reasoning.

In a world of Votato/Vecna town that leaves what

Chk/Eyescott/Farside/Lilth

aka probably Eyescott/Farside/Lilth? Yeah...no

she scumreads farside yet rejects a world where farside is scum with her two scumbuddies. shes trying to push us away from looking at lilith/eyetisnh

Alright Vecna if I townread chk and you townread Votato in the world we're both town you should be fine with:
VOTE: Eyescott
this right?

solid reasoning for a vote.

If I was playing this game like 6 months ago I'd probably be voting Vecna with no breaks.

But now I'm just trying to go with the most likely combo and that's 1 of eyescott/Votato for sure.

hedging

Maria, could you vote with me on eyestott please?

VOTE: Eyescott

sheeping

Scum shot into roses cause they're trying to kill roses right?

If you cc a gun claim and even get a gun lynched you have a chance of dying 1/2 at night. So, I think scum are trying to bank on 1 or 2 scum to win the game with the rose wincon and get credit for bussing.

she understands the scum strat. not necessarily scum proof, but this is what theyre doing.

[votato]

theres the strange catfight between maria and lilith d1. seems staged for distancing. i think at the time we all thought it was pretty silly and overdone. and we were right!

[votato]

also strange is that at the end of the catfight theres no resolution, they both just suddenly move on to other things.

[votato]

the one on lilith is a lot shorter. she was a lot more subtle in retrospect. the main thing is that while she does throw shade at maria a few times, her solves very much push us away from the scum team being both maria and eythiuonhb. she also doesnt really justify her votes, and has some ex post justification of her progressions when she got called out on it. also, while lilith and maria have been shading each other at various points, at no point did they get in a big back-and-forth involving any meaningful content. their accusations at each other are ignored more or less.

Spoiler:

Fuck it

VOTE: knightmare

fuck it, lets hop on this wagon. why do i believe in it? not sure. but i know im hopping on. cuz fuck it.

@votato who are these better wagons

oh there are other options? lets hear them! but nah, not gonna listen to any of them.

VOTE: vecna

Rereading interactions with ABR and the inconsistency in tone vs read still bothers me

heres at least an attempt to have a reason for voting.

lets hammer lilith imo

Scum probably all 3 picked gun, killed FB/something smat/farside.

Lilith is scum fore sure.

I’m really fucking not, go take your shitty reads elsewhere ABR

yeah, lilith isnt scum because ABR has shitty reads. ABR: dont forget that lilith is scum for sure.

? I put farside/votato/maybe eyestott as my latest theory based on D2 wagons

puts two townies and one scum maybe in the scum list. not maria tho.

Okay in retrospect I wasn't as clear as I thought I was about no longer townreading you when I said I could be convinced to vote you. By the time I posted 1882 I was no longer townreading you though.

ex post justification for prior votes. cuz theres actually no progression in her thoughts.

Okay I only made it through about 60 pages but here's what I have so far:

Independently I would say eyestott and votato are the scummiest. They tend to join wagons late; eyestott seems almost afraid to place his vote as if he doesn't want to rock the boat and basically doesn't vote anyone who isn't already being wagoned; votato seems to be following most of the major wagons D1. A point in votato's favor is that he was trying to push farside when she was fairly townread. On the flip side, he's on the cakes counterwagon to an all-town wagon on maria at end of D1, the DC wagon, and the D2 vecna wagon. eyestott ends up on the knightmare lynch but only because his vote was already there from before; however, he put the original vote on knightmare only after someone else voted there and then seems to have dropped the push once others said knightmare was too scummy to be scum (this might have overlapped with his RL absence from the thread though). eyestott is also on the D2 vecna wagon. So overall I think they are about equal but not necessarily on the same team.

disclaimer: shitty wagon analysis incoming
eyestott vs maria wagons: if eyestott is scum and maria is the town counterwagon, then that implicates vecna I think
maria vs cakes wagons: if maria is scum and cakes is the town counterwagon, then that implicates votato, chkflip, and/or farside
votato D1 wagon: I think at least 1 scum is on this wagon (farside or chkflip)
DC D1 wagon: I also think at least 1 scum is on this wagon (chkflip, vecna, votato, farside)
ABR D1 wagon: also probable for at least 1 scum to be on this wagon (vecna, farside, chkflip). farside, vecna, and chkflip probably more so because they are on both the ABR wagon and the DC wagon.
vecna D2 wagon: at least 1 scum on this wagon regardless of vecna alignment; at least 2 scum if vecna is town. (maria, farside, eyestott, votato)
eyestott D2 wagon: likely at least 1 scum on this wagon regardless of eyestott alignment (vecna, maria)
lilith D2 wagon: at least 1 but probably 2 scum on this wagon (farside, chkflip, votato, vecna)

I think that leaves me with {eyestott, vecna, farside/chkflip} or {maria, farside/chkflip, votato} or smaller chance of {maria, eyestott, farside/votato} if both the eyestott/maria wagons are on scum (I think this is less likely because their wagons got derailed by DC who is conftown)

I feel like people have been saying that Maria/farside doesn't make sense because of D1 but actually Maria pushed farside really hard on D1, dropped it, and basically hasn't engaged with farside since. Even though farside was originally one of her top scumreads at the beginning of the day, Maria has said pretty much nothing about that slot after that. farside was also scumreading Maria based on their D1 interactions but in D2 does not seem to be pushing her at all or considering Maria to be part of any possible scum team to the point that it seems like she is now townreading Maria. Also at the end of D1 I was trying to question Maria and farside kind of chainsaw defended her by attacking me for it.

On reread I'm actually feeling more confident in a Maria/farside team due to the lack of interaction/disconnect in reads vs tone D2 so I'm leaning towards {maria, farside, votato/eyestott} or {eyestott, vecna, farside/chkflip} as secondary team

and here again, she entertains the possibility of the scum team involving either maria or eyetoih, but doesnt really allow it to be both.

[votato]

sorry chicky

It was a good vig regardless, chkflip was an awful slot

it was a good vig except that there were two obvious choices that were better.

[votato]

Scum played well this game. Therefore i am not scum. It's simple. Stop overthinking.

[votato]

thats what i said!

[votato]

someone hammer pls. And scum, don't forget to shoot me. Leave abr alive for tomorrow.

[votato]

You wanna do Maria today?

[votato]

abr was just on Lilith. I'm obviously fine with either lynch. There's an extra vote on my wagon still though.

[votato]

Dc im open towning. Ive convinced abr/abr convinced himself. The outcome is certain.

[votato]

i mean i did solve the game yesterday

[votato]

i was on the vecna wagon and couldn't have hammered

[votato]

VOTE: maria i'll tryhard again tomorrow.

[votato]

well two ICs now think im scum. i have to sell them on the idea that its lilith, since lilith+DC+ico=majority. its even more dire if scum does shoot ABR. thatll take a lot of effort, especially since being male means DC really isnt gonna wanna side with me.

[votato]

nice. dont forget to shoot me lilith.

[votato]

if im not trolling please try to take me seriously tomorrow. or at least take ABR seriously. we are so close to winning this.

[votato]

how would i flip town?

[votato]

theres no world in which you've played to wincon to this point DC. your only two consistent townreads throughout this game were both scum. you have let your misandry outweigh reason.

[votato]

what a shitshow, well played scum. was there any world in which you didnt shoot me night 3?

[votato]

DC do you feel bad about your bad reads yet?

[votato]

my horn is amazing. and real. dont slander me like that.

[votato]

sorry i was bad. it was fun anyway

[votato]

well how do you know im not already masturbating over myself, first of all...

[votato]

or is currently in the process and giving u a face

[votato]

im new. im supposed to be bad.

[votato]

yeah thanks fakegod. actually yeah had any of the successful town guns holstered, town wins. i mean or if they hit one scum.

[votato]

Fire bringer is a hottie. and always nice.

[votato]

just read the dead thread. i think you were right not to end it, FG. i also was a bit curious when i realized i was the only rose with 2 scum knowing i was n1, but decided to try anyway.

[votato]

Unfortunately, town's performance is graded as a whole, not by how good its individuals' reads were.

I think the

scumhunting performance

was on point, roses just chose wrong nights. If votato really was night 3 rose it was gg. votato nobody will ever kill you night 1

Mostly i was concerned about getting vigged. You're right thigh

[votato]

so dc=titus

[votato]

i am not votato

[votato]

wait shit wrong account

[votato]

We don't work well together because you always target me, so I make your life difficult, and we tear the town apart together and inadvertently help the scum win.

No. You make town's life difficult with your theatrics and needing to be the best slot. I don't target you until you start lording over players.

I have zero interest in actually playing with you until you learn humility. The lack of humility and hero shots is why you lost. It's an example you set.

you know that without reading obviously

[votato]

We don't work well together because you always target me, so I make your life difficult, and we tear the town apart together and inadvertently help the scum win.

No. You make town's life difficult with your theatrics and needing to be the best slot. I don't target you until you start lording over players.

I have zero interest in actually playing with you until you learn humility. The lack of humility and hero shots is why you lost. It's an example you set.

you know that without reading obviously

Yes, ABR and I go back years. Donald Trump is a buffoon, but more humble than a smart ABR.

you hear that ABR? you are literally worse than hitler.

[votato]

so titus=gobbles?

[votato]

DC you realize you arent making any friends right now, yeah?

[votato]

Spoiler:

[votato]

Saying things like: ‘we would’ve won if we did x’ is pretty obvious when the game is over. Hindsight is 20/20.

I think town played this pretty badly with all the chances or ways they could’ve done this. But I’m a bias party in the matter. Best you can do is look for improvement in your own play and move on. It’s a game for fun after all.

qft.
although i do wanna say that i played perfectly and it was everyone elses fault.