Animals Upick [Game Over]

[HoldenGolden]

PASSIVE -- King: You are not a player in this game and will not appear in flip lists. You only exist to establish all players have access to a sample town PM.

If only such a power existed.

You all failed RVS protocol and thus, the only valid course of action is to kill you one by one in order of your committed sin

VOTE: votato

[HoldenGolden]

RVS: Random Validation stage

And I see no validation occurring. For example, look at this post

VOTE: Birds and the Boys



-Calvin

This is a textbook example of RVS by explicit validation of both his name and his vote with a comic strip

Gosh PP for someone who help runs the newbie thread I would thought you knew what RVS stood for

[HoldenGolden]

You are loved, Holden.

-Cosmic

*sniff sniff*

The Emotional validation..*sniff*.. is most welcomed

pedit: I've learned you don't need grammar for an English degree a long time ago PP

[HoldenGolden]

A forced validation is one that carries no weight,

However, despite me not being able to validate your true identity, I can validate the kindness in your heart as you shown it to this poor donkey sheriff.

[HoldenGolden]

Wait, pokemon pfp and knows who I am,

I think I know who you are actually now come to think about it

[HoldenGolden]

We have a synonym of VCA, the means to an end, what shall this disgust be?

This game is but a baby, and you’re studying a baby’s mile time to improve your dreadful lap speed.

You shall be shamed!

Execution!

Statements like this must be verified scientifically, lucky for you I am willing to help.

Let Smallfoot = the average speed a baby can run/walk in a hour. Let Dm be the average amount a baby can walk per day in the US measuring system in miles. Now, according to this 100% scientifically assured source babies walk around 2 and a half miles per day.

Smallfoot thus equals

Smallfoot=2.5/24 ->

Smallfoot = ~.1 miles per hour

Thus let us compare this to if Comic is to run a mile lap.

We know that comic is referring to the umberon and according to pokedex entries it is a known fact that, for every point of speed stat, a pokemon moves at 15.196mph.Therefore, by inspection alone, this number is larger and therefore Comic can easily already out run a baby in a mile lap. But let's see just how bad a gap it is:

Umberon's speed stat is 65, therefore

65 * 15.196mph = 987.74 mph

As such, by diving the rate comic runs by the variable smallfoot, we get the answer that Comic can perform ~9877 mile laps before the baby can finish one.

Conclusion:

Due to your reckless abandonment to verify your statement, you have made a terribly incorrect assumption about comic's physical capabilities. This clear misrep, although clever, is certainly only from the PoV of scum trying to push a mislynch onto Comic.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: April Ludgate

[HoldenGolden]

I was going to wait till later, But I am also a Miller.

Meet the Millers.

[HoldenGolden]

math use correlates to scum btw, Holden.

It's been scientifically proven.

You haven't provided a source to verify this claim.

I suggest we lynch April -> PP for multiple infractions of RVS

[HoldenGolden]

I shall

Sheep

the

Donkey

.

VOTE: April

~Cosmic

Donkeys dont like sheep though.

[HoldenGolden]

I don’t want buddies, I want death friends. I want war!

Forever scum it is then.

-Golden

[HoldenGolden]

Are both miller claims hardclaims?

I am also a human miller.

I also have a confused modifier as well.

[HoldenGolden]

I shall

Sheep

the

Donkey

.

VOTE: April

~Cosmic

Donkeys dont like sheep though.

The sheep is a scum.

Holdilocks, move that silly RVS vote of yours onto actual Scummithy Jenkins over there.

No forever scum means you are forever scum, scum.

War is fun!

[HoldenGolden]

What does confused modifier?

Based on the grammar it seems to be working

[HoldenGolden]

Confused is a modifier to our role, BS

-turducken

Pedit:

It explains that we will show up as not aligned with town but not what the human thing does. We think humans are the mafia

We should be protected cause we almost extinct D:

Is the pedit referring to the confused modifier or the miller?

I second it if it is the latter

[HoldenGolden]

What does confused modifier?

I shall

Sheep

the

Donkey

.

VOTE: April

~Cosmic

Donkeys dont like sheep though.

The sheep is a scum.

Holdilocks, move that silly RVS vote of yours onto actual Scummithy Jenkins over there.

No forever scum means you are forever scum, scum.

War is fun!

I am no scum, I am a dragon. Rawr

Don't claim flavours. Some roles can target only certain flavours.

Hmm

So I shall explain the confused modifier more. There are apparently actions that only target what is defined as natural and unnatural animals, although, I don't know how one is classified (as a human is technically a natural animal objectively speaking if we are talking science wise). I had thought that BS knew (and had it too) given the second quote, but it seemed he doesn't knows what confused meant given the first.

Is BS the type of player to be naturally inquiring about set ups?

[HoldenGolden]

I am here now

Apparently I would like everyone to make a list of their favourite dinosaurs
Top 5 or whatever IDK

Dr Rex.
Dr Rex. JR
W/e the fuck bowser is
W/e the fuck bowser jr is
The dino stand user

[HoldenGolden]

Nah - that's the sign of a good mod.

I'll sheep your assurance then.

BS seems to have a lot of info about set up hence why I was curious

[HoldenGolden]

VOTE: Holden

Serious vote, thanks to something that clicked once Birdies said so.

As Emperor of this here Candyland, I’ve been testing your abilities to cognitive deduction.

I think most of you failed, however, I am not positive in this.

yessssss, the hate of forever scum flows through you. Dew it!

Would you like to explain to class your findings or nah?

[HoldenGolden]

Is it bad I'm more excited to see what kind of animals everyone picked? I can't have anyone VOTE: Conspire against me. Get it?

Oh no

this guy thinks he's punny

[HoldenGolden]

Guys I've made 3 image posts and they've had 0 reception I am genuinely disappointed

I'm gonna actually read the first 6 pages now

Sorry, for some reason, it was like time skipped passed them.

[HoldenGolden]

@Bingle, we could ask miller claims to post certain letters of the role who can investigate humans. What do you think?

Doesn't it make sense that scum would prob. have a safeclaim pm of a miller according to what is posted in the set up?

[HoldenGolden]

Is it bad I'm more excited to see what kind of animals everyone picked? I can't have anyone VOTE: Conspire against me. Get it?

hi Clover!

~fire

Hi fire! It's good to see you again. Did you like my pun? I thought it was pretty great.

it was puntific

Only scum show their work.

I just make grand entrances and dramatize the moment when necessary!

only scum deal in absolutes

~fire

You’re mistaken this with Siths, and I am for sure a Sith, but I am not scum.

What if the animal I picked was a sith?

[HoldenGolden]

Spoiler: You have fallen for it April

Yousa went toe toe with mesa, darth jar jar

[HoldenGolden]

VOTE: HoldenGolden

I shall

Sheep

the

April

.

~Cosmic

Now I am de captain of the wagons

[HoldenGolden]

You’re a tool to be used and discarded at a rider’s whim.

I need an adult. To help me get into this R rated movie. Where were we at on that, btw? Is it Deadpool? I’d watch Deadpool again.

Ride on my back and we can watch the show together

Calvin silly tiger, lynches are for kids.

[HoldenGolden]

The people love me! They are voting for me! Look at me now mom!

[HoldenGolden]

Its that thingy from Ice age

Scatch I think?

[HoldenGolden]

Its that thingy from Ice age

Scatch I think?

Why aren't you

Claiming

?

~Cosmic

I live dangerously. L-1 or bust baby

[HoldenGolden]

Its that thingy from Ice age

Scatch I think?

Why aren't you

Claiming

?

~Cosmic

I live dangerously. L-1 or bust baby

ok bet
VOTE: HoldenGolden

L-1

-bitmap

Oh well this was quick. I didn't even get to use my gun

[HoldenGolden]

Target me pls

Too late man, im already dead

*bleat*

Hear that? I just got tripled voted pass l-1. Even though consqipred tried to sike me out

pedit: nah better

I am sensing a lot of hate though, so I am going to claim:
1 shot vig confused miller

[HoldenGolden]

VOTE: votato

~Cosmic

pedit: hint I don't

[HoldenGolden]

Although the quick wagon's are fun

DAY VIG: Calvin and Hobbes

[HoldenGolden]

Any moment now you are going to flip, so might as well give us your teammate's name and SSN

[HoldenGolden]

Thats a penguin

[HoldenGolden]

See I just body guarded you PP from that hateful comment proving I am 1 shot body guard

[HoldenGolden]

Actually I am 1 shot jester and you ruined my wincon April

[HoldenGolden]

Actually I am 1 shot jester and you ruined my wincon April

Weird. I’m a 3-shot jester and I win the first three times I’m lynched.

What?

I would like to use my one shot mod vig on Krazy for this

Now to see what this actual discussion about jjh is

[HoldenGolden]

Ah,

And conspire I can give you a better way to invest him as I am 1 shot gunsmith. I only am able to gift it to the "Hot Wheels" animal group though.

[HoldenGolden]

25% sure Votato slot flips scum here btw

-Calvin

math is scummy tho so ive been told

pedit: Expect the gun tonight then! I shall ship it to aminalzon

[HoldenGolden]

Wow this game drastically slowed down once the Votato wagon picked up. That’s probably scum indicative.

Who was on Holden, but not Votato?

People just can't handle the heat of my glorious 1 shot confused tracker miller claim

[HoldenGolden]

All in a day's work for town's one shot confused even doctor

Working from your theory, does anybody's lack of transition stick out to you?

[HoldenGolden]

Like me, 1 shot insane miller cop

[HoldenGolden]

All in a day's work for town's one shot confused even doctor

Working from your theory, does anybody's lack of transition stick out to you?

April

[HoldenGolden]

Fair enough april.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: mastina that lightmode hurts my sensitive eyes

[HoldenGolden]

People really got caught up on that baby mile post.

Because mathematically it is flawed.

[HoldenGolden]

I SAID I AM DRAGON RAWR
~April

Considering that was my second pick:

PRESS

X

rawr

You two aren't very creative

You know Alyssa is a mod right?

[HoldenGolden]

The mod said mass claim day 1 would never work. But we don't know unless we try guys! VOTE: Votato

And what's the reasoning behind claiming that information?

In one post you suggest massclaim, in other you are reluctant to even a partial claim.

The first post was a joke during the time I feel like a lot of the playerlist was messing around. In my experience wolves are more likely to miss things like this than town. Unless my joke wasn't obvious than someone do let me know. VOTE: Blatant scum

This is very likely town.

I read it as scummy
His first post doesnt read as though he is joking at all.

"The Mods says X is impossible, but lets do X anyways since we already are trying!"

I don't really see how that's not a joking statement

[HoldenGolden]

People really got caught up on that baby mile post.

Because mathematically it is flawed.

Pretty sure it was my first post, or at least first 3. It’s scum indicative of people who get hung up on that sort of thing. Sure, could be town doing it, but that’s what’s actually scummy.

And if you wanna be technical, babies can’t even run a mile. They’d have to crawl!

Are you saying you are doubting the legitimacy of Daily news UK? THE Daily news UK? Iste Daily News?

[HoldenGolden]

votato conf scum based on how long this wagon is taking to form.

-bitmap

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Votato

Roooooooooom
1 shot drunk bus driver reporting in for duty

[HoldenGolden]

Can I still post videos?

Are they sexy homemade videos?

[HoldenGolden]

The mod said mass claim day 1 would never work. But we don't know unless we try guys! VOTE: Votato

And what's the reasoning behind claiming that information?

In one post you suggest massclaim, in other you are reluctant to even a partial claim.

The first post was a joke during the time I feel like a lot of the playerlist was messing around. In my experience wolves are more likely to miss things like this than town. Unless my joke wasn't obvious than someone do let me know. VOTE: Blatant scum

This is very likely town.

I read it as scummy
His first post doesnt read as though he is joking at all.

"The Mods says X is impossible, but lets do X anyways since we already are trying!"

I don't really see how that's not a joking statement

doesnt it seem reasonable that the scum would want a massclaim day 1? they want to see what flavor/roles are out there, and who to target, but know that it won't work to out them because mod said so? or am I missing something?

I'm not saying the underlying logic is wrong as I do agree with that, I am saying I don't find how Clover's quoted post can be read as not a joke.

Because otherwise you can say Calvin is scum for endorsing and pushing for the quick wagoning

[HoldenGolden]

I love mafblack tbh

Right amount of eyeburning and readability.

[HoldenGolden]

The mod said mass claim day 1 would never work. But we don't know unless we try guys! VOTE: Votato

And what's the reasoning behind claiming that information?

In one post you suggest massclaim, in other you are reluctant to even a partial claim.

The first post was a joke during the time I feel like a lot of the playerlist was messing around. In my experience wolves are more likely to miss things like this than town. Unless my joke wasn't obvious than someone do let me know. VOTE: Blatant scum

This is very likely town.

I read it as scummy
His first post doesnt read as though he is joking at all.

"The Mods says X is impossible, but lets do X anyways since we already are trying!"

I don't really see how that's not a joking statement

doesnt it seem reasonable that the scum would want a massclaim day 1? they want to see what flavor/roles are out there, and who to target, but know that it won't work to out them because mod said so? or am I missing something?

I'm not saying the underlying logic is wrong as I do agree with that, I am saying I don't find how Clover's quoted post can be read as not a joke.

Because otherwise you can say Calvin is scum for endorsing and pushing for the quick wagoning

actually yes, thats what I'm implying. ebi seems like a joke. calvin doesnt.

I think the Calvin thought is more reasonable after skimming through their ISO again considering how almost all their play is around mass claiming

[HoldenGolden]

I love mafblack tbh

Right amount of eyeburning and readability.

If only there was a mafiablacker...

I do sometimes use mafiablackest

Hurts to close my eyes for that long tho

[HoldenGolden]

Considering it also only has the "scum" pt thread tab open in both browsers, and only it along with the game thread, makes it a joke

[HoldenGolden]

We thank you Votato for your contribution to RVS: random validation stage

[HoldenGolden]

Perhaps I was wrong on who Cosmic is.

50/50 split on the name of the squirrel controlling the buttons

[HoldenGolden]

The more this game goes on the more I realized there were better picks I could of done

Cosmic is slowly revealing more and more who they are by the moment. They should just name claim

[HoldenGolden]

The more this game goes on the more I realized there were better picks I could of done

Cosmic is slowly revealing more and more who they are by the moment. They should just name claim

Don't you dare. Our identities are a well-guarded secret. This discussion is incredibly anti-town and should stop immediately.

~Cosmic

I need a bribe then.

Convince Krazy to make my 1 shot confused miller CPR Doc 2 shot and I'll let it slide.

[HoldenGolden]

Can I still post videos?

Are they sexy homemade videos?

Yes and with a special feat

Ah, a Pathfinder themed "dungeon I see

Carry on wayward creature.

[HoldenGolden]

@Krazy:

Please give HoldenGolden a confused miller JOAT strongman 0-shot Quack Doctor Ability please. Thanks.

~Cosmic

You actually got pretty close

[HoldenGolden]

Can I still post videos?

Are they sexy homemade videos?

Yes and with a special feat

Ah, a Pathfinder themed "dungeon I see

Carry on wayward creature.

Which race do you want?

Hmm let's make it

scandalous

Human

[HoldenGolden]

because i read the thread

me too.
This whole thing reads as one big rvs. People talking about wagons, people voting and creating wagons. People trying to out alts.
I actually wanted out when I saw this player list because they play a lot differently and I have no clue how to scum hunt with the nonsense I see in here.

What do you make of Calvins approach to the game centered around massclaiming given your comments earlier to Clover's post?

[HoldenGolden]

because i read the thread

me too.
This whole thing reads as one big rvs. People talking about wagons, people voting and creating wagons. People trying to out alts.
I actually wanted out when I saw this player list because they play a lot differently and I have no clue how to scum hunt with the nonsense I see in here.

lucky for you you rolled scum so now you get to stay and "hunt" which is pretty easy.

You are so cute!

because i read the thread

me too.
This whole thing reads as one big rvs. People talking about wagons, people voting and creating wagons. People trying to out alts.
I actually wanted out when I saw this player list because they play a lot differently and I have no clue how to scum hunt with the nonsense I see in here.

What do you make of Calvins approach to the game centered around massclaiming given your comments earlier to Clover's post?

Well I reread the pages before his first post and a lot of players are joke claiming. So the comment it's self makes no sense to me. It's clear people are joking around and he is talking about mass claiming.
I don't know how he got one idea from all that was going on.
When the mass claim talk started it was only about whether players were human or miller.
I didn't see why the question was big deal.

I am confused about one more thing. Why does everyone assume the birds and the boys would do a pic that showed a scum PT as a joke?

Ok, but do to see it scummy in the same way that you viewed Clover's post, or is it just werid and confusing?

[HoldenGolden]

Give case for Votatown

-Calvin

I think the fact he took a harder stance against claiming is more likely to come from a townie perspective. Ironically, I think scum would pull more what I did in the face of it.

UNVOTE:

[HoldenGolden]

Alrighty, then. Can't break anything with pressuring people.
VOTE: Blatant Scum

Yes you can.

I can break everyone's will to play with memes as the 1 shot meme confused motion detector

[HoldenGolden]

I really want to lynch you...so you must be town.

Do you want to lynch this smexy boi?

[HoldenGolden]

Quick question: should other TPs CC votato?

What role would possibly cc his role

exactly. the reason a massclaim is bad is that town really gains quite little. Scum on the other hand get a lot of info about who to target.

UNVOTE:

does blatant always sound this way? I don't really know what to make of his posts, but i dont see any way they help town.

pedit: ready for day 2? day 1 has hardly started...

Then I'll ask you the question I asked Farside, what do you make of Calvin's focus on mass claiming? Is it innocent fun, scum driven, or etc.?

[HoldenGolden]

pedit: ready for day 2? day 1 has hardly started...

yeah - but Day 1 sucks.

Day 1 is the best day!

Take it back you fish eating dayist.

[HoldenGolden]

If the Cosmic Penguins move to Blatant scum they’re L-3.

Is BS a town counter wagon or a scum wagon. Is it possible they’re both scum, is it possible they’re both town.

These are what I’m going to do some work on, ugh, work, work is gross.

Is BS the possible secret star crossed lover of Krazy? Or is he possibly not the lover?
Will he be lynched for his playstyle? Or shall he live forever in the fields of heaven?
Tune in next time to another exciting episode of undirected questions!...?...!

[HoldenGolden]

Why are we in a cycle of putting people to L-1 then backing off when they fakeclaim

Let's break the cycle and escape fate Mr. Emperor Crimson

What do you make of the BS wagon and the reasons coming up to vote for him?

[HoldenGolden]

Are you saying you did it to try and make us think you're town?

~Cosmic

Or to make you think that I am scum. You will never know.

Is this reverse reverse psychology or just psychology?

I'm not so hot on the brain stuff.

[HoldenGolden]

@ holden: i think your comparing clover to calvin is 2 separate things. Clover said he was joking about mass claiming when he was called out for the discrepancy when he switch to mass claiming is bad.
I dont believe it was a joke and i dont understand why your defending him and not letting him defend his own actions.
Simply put why was he joking about mass claiming when no one was talking about it and then why did je take it seriously after?

My comparison between them for you specifically (and by extension me asking Votato a similar question) has more to it than simply the contents of the question. I'll explain more once votato answers.

As for the clover's joking statement, I was calling it as I saw it at the time. Had I knew there was more to it in your POV than "this doesn't seem like a joke" then maybe it would of gotten a different response. Maybe, I'm quite impulsive.

What do you make of Clover's cluelessness in his latest posts?

[HoldenGolden]

Dang votato failed the Calvin test worsed than Farside did.

My point in asking you two was to see how you reacted once basically spoonfed a read given your similar statements about massclaiming on other players. With me assuming scum would give an wishy washy answer regardless of Calvin's alignment.

Farsides response at least just said it was werid in an elongated fashion.

I'm generally confused at what your overall evaluation of it is votato given you say parts of it is NAI, Scum driven, and town driven.

[HoldenGolden]

I do have a 1 shot confused inverted role PM invest I can do

[HoldenGolden]

Just forever scum him like I did April.

No balls fire. This is why i dont respond to you in the scum PT. Be careful posting screenshots next time too!

[HoldenGolden]

Just forever scum him like I did April.

No balls fire. This is why i dont respond to you in the scum PT. Be careful posting screenshots next time too!

I have better balls than u sir

Also I told mod to ban u from scum PT cause ur memes suck. So there

-fire

Well you do have a nice pair. Sadly I have a triple which in both volume and count larger and better than yours.

Do it, I'll use the nightly fractional kill on you than since its allowed to be used on scum.

Pedit: yeah I'm not sure we can do that.

Besides, like I said eariler, mafia might have something which contains that info anyways making it pointless to do

[HoldenGolden]

Dang votato failed the Calvin test worsed than Farside did.

My point in asking you two was to see how you reacted once basically spoonfed a read given your similar statements about massclaiming on other players. With me assuming scum would give an wishy washy answer regardless of Calvin's alignment.

Farsides response at least just said it was werid in an elongated fashion.

I'm generally confused at what your overall evaluation of it is votato given you say parts of it is NAI, Scum driven, and town driven.

People are welcome to comment on this fyi

[HoldenGolden]

yeah... in my short tenure, I've learned that when i give firm early game reads i come off as scummy and have shit takes. I'll work on improving it. Farside can vouch.

VOTE: Votato L2 since last VC was a bit ago

You didnt give a firm read on Calvin though.

It's less about giving a firm or confused answer, and more how it is done. Scum from my experience tends to over justify things to look like their posting has more merit to it. You often see it in day 1 read lists by them for example where most of it is null reads with one or two paragraphs.

In your response to Calvin you, in order,
- said that it in theory is scum driven
- suggesting it is NAI
- its town because it can be used as a reaction test
- calvin isnt using it as a reaction test
- Calvin's usage of it is scummy
- but he needs to be asked questions regarding it to make sure.

Uncommital, self undermining, and more importantly overtly winded wishy washy read on Calvin.

I guess I could tie in you didnt end up questing calvin after that post which would also make sense from a townie presepctive, but I jumped the gun I think too quickly by revealing it to use it.

So:

What do you make of Dunn's unvote on you and farsides vote?
Are you just confused about bingles logic or do you think he is stretching to whitenight you? If latter, would it be scum or town driven?

[HoldenGolden]

UNVOTE: Votato

Not really feeling this lynch. Also I think 830 is a post town makes more than scum do.

I like Cālvin and Hobbes

Do you have more to contribute

Didnt we play together a lonnnnnng time ago in a newbie?

[HoldenGolden]

VOTE: votato
Holdens push on the claim and lack of follow through from votato makes me think hes scum.
I still think birds is scum. Fire doesn't read his normally bubbly self

Lack of follow through in what capacity? On calvin? My push on what claim? My reasons to vote votato has nothing to do with his claiming of his role.

He did follow up technically at the top of the page, although its him talking about his short tenure on site.

As a side note, I think I know how his role works. If janitor targets somebody who doesn't die that night, but does the next. Will they be cleaned when they filp?

[HoldenGolden]

Votato's lack of understanding it makes me feel it could be a fakeclaim, although even fakeclaims must be full role PMs, right?

-Calvin

It depends. I dont think Janitor/watcher/doctor is a very self explanatory role in its functionality. Moreover, it seems votato didnt get a description of what a janitor is since he admitted somewhere to searching the wiki for info on it.

Its undermined my eariler assumption that his stubbornness to claim is townie.

[HoldenGolden]

Hobbes here! I'm good with our vote. Personally I townread most of the wagon too, as well as Bingle! Fire any questions at me if you have any, I'll be around

also the scum tab in the image is clearly a joke because who has a browser open with only two tabs?? Let's be real guys

-Hobbes

Side note Calvin, did you kidnapped and are now torturing Hobbes? I want to speak to the tiger.

[HoldenGolden]

Moreover, it seems votato didnt get a description of what a janitor is since he admitted somewhere to searching the wiki for info on it.

I don't believe this. His Role PM would have described the ability.

uh not exactly sure. From what I gather on the wiki, the janitor would be a scum role.

From that plus my role PM I guess my role has something to do with being anti-janitor?

I'm not exactly sure how it would work. sorry. i think the watcher ability only activates if im successful, if that helps.

i think being useless is probably correlated with being scum. You all seem to know BS much better than I, and if hes a really good player, then theres probably a method somewhere in the apparent madness. I guess this sort of confusion is why I want to wait before jumping to any conclusions about anyone. ironically, this uncertainty makes me a bit useless, so i guess im confirmed scum.

It seems that his role PM didnt include how the janitor part interacts with the rest. Hes speculating on how it works given the fact that janitor is normally a scum role and thus his modifier is countering that.

Which makes no sense since he is also a doctor which can just heal somebody who is getting shot while also watching them, seeing who tried to do it (though doc doesnt get notice they successfully healed I think which makes it at least not impossible)

[HoldenGolden]

The lowest tier is the best because I can be shit, and rise, and have it look super good. From the top, only way you can go is down.

And the fact that he is ignoring this makes

me want to tunnel him until he is wiped from this game completely....not just lynched...wiped out from existing in this game.

Why the extreme response? Lynched = died unless there is a way to revive him? Which is pointless if he is scum.

Do you think then his stubbornness to claim was him buying time to figure out a fakeclaim?

[HoldenGolden]

Gah forever scum April somehow sneaked her post into that one

[HoldenGolden]

I am at a loss on who I should buddy up to this game. No one seems friendly enough for me to just pal around with.

Penguin is my mortal enemy.
Dunny is being boring.
Creature is Creature. How do u even buddy up to him.
Clover Ebi is gr8 but not active enough.
Bingle could be fun to buddy up to but probably won't win me any medals for tricking.
votato I haven't known long enough to form a real meaningful relationship so I can't possibly buddy him. I am no skank.
Farside not susceptible to my buddying
Hydras aren't buddy material
lol mastinaa
holy shit dr easy bake is in this gme? must be scum.

~fire

I'd be your buddy but I'm not on this list.

Way to go making the association read easier on us fire. I'm unbanning myself from the scum qt so I can ban you.

[HoldenGolden]

I just want to be loved fire! It's so lonely being outside the pub while you and the others discuss the plan! I'm cold and wet.

PP I got that. I'm more confused on why you felt the need to post something like that tonally on a player who is already at L2.

Are you normally hyperbolical?

[HoldenGolden]

Wow, good question.

Dont shrug it off you naughty penguin

That information where votato read a wiki was already in the thread for a bit. You quoted that post from votato eariler to dunn for the first half, meaning you at least read half of it. I dont know why it took me having to bring it up for you to announce your death tunnel.

852 feels like forced reaction to me because of it. You already seemingly knew what krazy posted about scums fakeclaims given the way you worded the first paragraph, making the whole emoji bit afterwards off. The follow up "this man needs to die no matter what" adds to it more.

[HoldenGolden]

u know back in my day I didn't need to barter for people to tunnel me. They would do it free of charge. Because they actually believed in me being scum.

I miss those times.

~fire

Can I reverse tunnel you by calling you town no matter what? Or do you think the townies will get suspicious?

[HoldenGolden]

Wow, good question.

Dont shrug it off you naughty penguin

That information where votato read a wiki was already in the thread for a bit. You quoted that post from votato eariler to dunn for the first half, meaning you at least read half of it. I dont know why it took me having to bring it up for you to announce your death tunnel.

852 feels like forced reaction to me because of it. You already seemingly knew what krazy posted about scums fakeclaims given the way you worded the first paragraph, making the whole emoji bit afterwards off. The follow up "this man needs to die no matter what" adds to it more.

He is a scum penguin. Don't listen to his lies.

~fire

He is not on our qt though unless you got him to replace me.

Help me push the mislynch for christ sake. What do you think of 852? You've played with pp before, is that normal for him?

Pedit: well your clearly town since scum would never town read their buddy. Everyone knows scum only busses

[HoldenGolden]

Wow, good question.

Dont shrug it off you naughty penguin

That information where votato read a wiki was already in the thread for a bit. You quoted that post from votato eariler to dunn for the first half, meaning you at least read half of it. I dont know why it took me having to bring it up for you to announce your death tunnel.

852 feels like forced reaction to me because of it. You already seemingly knew what krazy posted about scums fakeclaims given the way you worded the first paragraph, making the whole emoji bit afterwards off. The follow up "this man needs to die no matter what" adds to it more.

852 was me being annoyed at you for trying to explain his not knowing his role despite the fact I already said I didn't believe him. Hence. The. Multiple. Periods. And. Explanation. With. Sarcasm. Injected.

Your question about me posting hyperbolically is a dumb question because what am I going to say? It's a leading question that prompts me to say yes.

I get annoyed when people quote me saying "I don't believe this" but then try to rationalize it anyway.

See and it lead to more discussion making it a great leading question.

So your annoyed with my explanation when we both have the same read on him? Yeah, people have different interpretations. That's literally the point of a subjective game. I could understand more if I said "I think his lack of knowing his own role is a dumbtell town" because it contradicts. But the fact he went to the wiki does nothing to contradict your views and in fact enhances it.

Yes I feel 852 is forced. Yes I'm trying to rationalize the why behind it.

[HoldenGolden]

yeah... in my short tenure, I've learned that when i give firm early game reads i come off as scummy and have shit takes. I'll work on improving it. Farside can vouch.

VOTE: Votato L2 since last VC was a bit ago

You didnt give a firm read on Calvin though.

It's less about giving a firm or confused answer, and more how it is done. Scum from my experience tends to over justify things to look like their posting has more merit to it. You often see it in day 1 read lists by them for example where most of it is null reads with one or two paragraphs.

In your response to Calvin you, in order,
- said that it in theory is scum driven
- suggesting it is NAI
- its town because it can be used as a reaction test
- calvin isnt using it as a reaction test
- Calvin's usage of it is scummy
- but he needs to be asked questions regarding it to make sure.

Uncommital, self undermining, and more importantly overtly winded wishy washy read on Calvin.

I guess I could tie in you didnt end up questing calvin after that post which would also make sense from a townie presepctive, but I jumped the gun I think too quickly by revealing it to use it.

So:

What do you make of Dunn's unvote on you and farsides vote?
Are you just confused about bingles logic or do you think he is stretching to whitenight you? If latter, would it be scum or town driven?

I dont think much of either the vote or the unvote. I will say i think the order of those votes in quick succession probably means they aren't both scum.

I'm starting to think i just can't win here. Every time i take a firm stance early game people scum read me. So here i tried to just keep and open mind, and people scum read me anyway. Yes, im wishy washy and fence sitty. My reads will solidify as the game goes on. Maybe that's scummy, but it is what it is. If i need to be the day 1 lynch here, i guess that's fine. But I'm very much low hanging fruit, and i feel like there's gotta be scum driving this wagon.

My role explains the pieces. I didn't really realize how much i didn't understand it until i had to explain it. It seems that if my target gets janitored, i heal and watch. If not, i do nothing.

Penguin, can i have like 12 hours away from the game sometimes to sleep and go outside?

Pedit: yeah i agree. Pp seems forced and overblown. As an admin shouldn't he be the one telling us to chill?

PPs admin status has nothing to do with his abilities nor expectations to play.

Then when you get back from your 12 hour covid 19, who do you think is the scum driving your wagon then?

Moving furniture right now so going to be back and forth

[HoldenGolden]

Ah farside already asked.

No, it's a bad question that led to useless discussion.

I find your lack of faith...disturbing

[HoldenGolden]

Wait, shit, I forgot Gobbles was in this game as part of that hydra.
LOL Gobbles not posting here means SCUMZZZ!

-Calvin

As the 1 shot confused miller governor, I dare you to try!

[HoldenGolden]

886 really rubs me, and not in the right way

What about 886 bothers you?

[HoldenGolden]

886 really rubs me, and not in the right way

What about 886 bothers you?

Farside

Gotta admit that's quite a compelling case

What about 886 bothers you?

[HoldenGolden]

Read my posts, I’ve already said.



The role seems far to crazy to be made up to me, is the only thing.

Does anyone have experience with the mashed potato?

As someone who knows Krazy and considering other information I don't think basing this off the role itself is a good idea. If he was going to make up a role why something that outlandish with so many tags and parts to it? I doubt it's made up if it's fake only parts of it are. I don't think scum go into a game like that and fake claim it. The only way I could think of that is if you saw your partner's roles were equality insane so you made that up on the spot. Unlikely.

-

In regards to votato themselves, I think their posts are lacking in substance, not that it's a bad or a good thing. It's more along the lines of if you take out the talk around their role you don't have much to work with, that makes a problem on its own.

@Votato

You've been wagoned and talked about the most this dayphase. Who on your wagon are you scumreading? Do you think anyone not on the wagon is taking advantage of the situation? What're some of your reads?

What do you make of my assessment of the Calvin question I proposed to him?

[HoldenGolden]

i've repeatedly said i think its a bit early to have solid reads on people. But that said, I don't think the people asking for my reads really care about the reads, and are using them to test me. Here are some thoughts anyway.

PP: posting has been a bit strange. Some of the reactions seem forced, and he seems too eager to put pressure on me/lynch me.
conspire: i think this is where the wagon came from, and while I definitely dont townread conspire the vote wasnt opportunistic, so even if scum, this isnt the scum I'm looking for.
farside: townread her. she seems a bit fence-sitty on the wagon, both defending and attacking me, but i think its her trying to keep an open mind and remain objective. Because of our history, i townread her for that, although i suppose it could just as easily be that she is pretending to keep an open mind as scum.
april: similar to farside, but without any personal history. She gets townpoints for taking the time to read and understand my posts rather than just assume everything questionable is scummy.
dunnstral: this is probably the scummiest. first post in thread: puts someone at L-1. Second post in thread: unvotes, because he isnt "feeling this lynch". I'd say this is a good option for a wagon.
BS: we've been over this previously. the lack of contribution yet wanting to push for claims seems not town-aligned, but other people who know him better seem not to think much of it.
mastina: null
holden: seems the most opportunistic. was a late-comer to the wagon, and suddenly became very aggressive. Not sure how to interpret that alignment-wise.
im sure im missing some people here, but i went back through quite a lot of pages looking for votes.

Am I the only one who doesnt think much of Dr. Easy Bake's catch-up?

Let me be clear, I do care about your reads. While I do like doing reaction tests, that involves me caring about what you post as well including reads.

What changed in your evaluation of Dunns unvote? Eariler when I asked you about his and Farsides vote you said you didnt think much about it expect that the two cannot be scum together.

Additionally, can you expand your read on me and maybe PP a bit more? You clearly have thoughts about our approaches to your wagon, so let's take it a step further than it's strange on PP for example. Do you think my aggressive tone/his desire to lynch you comes from town or scum motivation? What other posts of ours outside of the ones directed at you help you determine it?

As one donkey to another, I promise this isnt a reaction test. I want to see your logic fleshed out more.

[HoldenGolden]

Anyway, this is what I got right now

jj town
conspire scum
April lean town
Penguin lean town
clover lean scum
Blatant Scum scum
votaytoh lean scum
calvin lean town, failed mason claim imo, but not scum indicative necessarily.

Aw man, this is a read lists from flavor town itself! Mmm, so greesy and most.

Can you explain the Clover and Calvin reads?

[HoldenGolden]

I think Votato's role makes sense if there is no mafia janitor and April is telling the truth.

Well it despite Aprils alignment.

Volato's reads are rough. But for him id give him town points.

@clover: im played with mastina before, so far she hasn't done anything that she hasn't done as scum as well. If there is something beside the town/scum reads im missing, let me know

You two have experience together. What is town!votato normally like?

[HoldenGolden]

Lol wait did I actually hammer BS?

I'm really upset you took my hammer away from me.

As the 1 shot dueler confused miller, I hereby challenge you to a duel.

[HoldenGolden]

I wished town had a better leader

A vote for me is a vote for a better town atmosphere

Holden2020

[HoldenGolden]

Probably 2-3 days

Why is your pfp a pink box?

Are you hiding your doomsday weapon behind it?

[HoldenGolden]

I would love if today's lynch were in {jjh927, mastina, Conspire, chemist1422, Calvin and Hobbes, PenguinPower, Dunnstral, Dr Easy Bake, Creature}.

I can understand from your posts why me/votato/april/farside and Bingle/Clover to an extent. Why is bird off your list?

Since fire banned me from the scum PT I've decided to become a 1 shot town traitor and you are interfering with my plans for revenge

[HoldenGolden]

Calvin test

I like this

"Failed Mason claim" I was jokingly referencing a recent game, but even without knowing that I dunno why DEB parsed it as serious.

Creature's catchups are meh, feel he is scumz.

-Calvin

Are you water boarding or doing the bamboo underneath the nails of Hobbies right now? I might have to call peta for it.

Do you like it because it has your name in it, or because of what it is referring to?

[HoldenGolden]

Hmm, April's claim is certainly interesting.

I wasnt expecting to have company over tonight. Let alone two people whom one has a cleaning fetish and the other has a watching people clean fetish. Do I make the place really dirty? Do I get dirty? I dont like getting dirty physically. More of a mentally filthy person.

I guess I can just hot glue yugioh cards to my naked body.

[HoldenGolden]

Hmm, April's claim is certainly interesting.

I wasnt expecting to have company over tonight. Let alone two people whom one has a cleaning fetish and the other has a watching people clean fetish. Do I make the place really dirty? Do I get dirty? I dont like getting dirty physically. More of a mentally filthy person.

I guess I can just hot glue yugioh cards to my naked body.

I like eating food off my grandmothers sleeping body

Classy. I shall ready your grandmother(s) at once.

[HoldenGolden]

I think votato is town. Scum wouldn't be this much of a derp to claim that as a fake-claim. There's like no way.

Also, is mastina dead or something? I was expecting walls of posts so her disinterest in this game is scummy.

-bitmap

What do you make of the content he posted like his reads list?

[HoldenGolden]

Do you like it because it has your name in it, or because of what it is referring to?

Because it has my name in it, of course.

Hobbes hasn't been responding on Discord either, prolly just busy for a while?

-Calvin

Calvin, torturing animals in a virtual animal based social game is highly wrong. Stop the forcefed torturing on your other hydra head young man.

[HoldenGolden]

Hobbes deserves it, Holden.

-Calvin

I never said he didnt deserve it. Merely that it is fundamentally morally wrong.

[HoldenGolden]

okay i haven't read this game at all yet but

as the protagonist I need to make an entrance in act 1 so we can do cool things in act 2 and 3 without seeming like a deus ex machina

-oka #1

Taming of the Shrew

and

Measure for Measure

would like to have a word with you.

[HoldenGolden]

Hiya, I'm around now

I've mostly just been skimming this game rather than giving it a proper read as of late. I think people have interpreted some things very differently to me so it might be worth rereading. EG I've assumed like all of the claims were NAI fakeclaims and people are taking them seriously.

My claim as 1 shot confused miller combined Strongarm CPR doctor is 100% legit

[HoldenGolden]

Votecount 1.20

Blatant Scum(4)

~ Calvin and Hobbes, votato, Dr Easy Bake, Dunnstral

votato(4)

~ Conspire, PenguinPower, mastina, HoldenGolden

Birds and the Boys(2)

~ jjh927, chemist1422

Dunnstral(2)

~ Bingle, farside22

Conspire(1)

~ Clover Ebi

mastina(1)

~ Creature

Calvin and Hobbes(1)

~ Blatant Scum

Chemist1422(1)

~ Birds and the Boys


Not Voting (1): April Ludgate

With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2020-05-11 11:45:58)

MOD REMINDERS

PenguinPower is V/LA until for a bit.

FLAVOR

The game probably stagnated since we have 3 4-3 people wagons and multiple 1 person wagons

[HoldenGolden]

Spoiler: the extent of dunnstral's remotely content posts

Rvs vote

VOTE: votato

L-1, please claim

UNVOTE: Votato

Not really feeling this lynch. Also I think 830 is a post town makes more than scum do.

I like Cālvin and Hobbes

VOTE: Blatant Scum

^That vote is weirding me out

Why would town have janitor abilities?

no one else thinks that this ISO is worth wagoning? an "RVS vote" trying to get a claim, an unvote immediately following the claim because he suddenly "isnt feeling the lynch," then another vote without reason. 838 is a legit question i guess. then 1028 contradicts his unvote.

I'll ask you again, what changed from your interpretation of Dunns unvote in your reads list since the BS vote came after that read list?

Why are you presenting Dunn as this hidden gem nobody has noticed when people like Farside has brought up them before?

[HoldenGolden]

Vote birds with me

He did ban me from the scum PT

UNVOTE: VOTE: Birds and boys

I still need responses from Votato before hes removed from my scum list

[HoldenGolden]

Vote birds with me

Okay

VOTE: Birds and boys

Now dance creature, dance!

[HoldenGolden]

Confused = can target only certain animal domain, else will fail. Domains: natural, unnatural, mystic etc.

HoldenGolden - confused(natural/ unnatural) 1-shot vigilante human miller

Birds and the Boys - human miller
Bingle - human miller
fotato - night 1-3 janitor-doctor watcher (heals and watches target if and only if the target is visited by janitor too)
April Ludgate - has janitor ability

As the one shot PGO confused Miller, its gonna be a fun night

[HoldenGolden]

Spoiler: the extent of dunnstral's remotely content posts

Rvs vote

VOTE: votato

L-1, please claim

UNVOTE: Votato

Not really feeling this lynch. Also I think 830 is a post town makes more than scum do.

I like Cālvin and Hobbes

VOTE: Blatant Scum

^That vote is weirding me out

Why would town have janitor abilities?

no one else thinks that this ISO is worth wagoning? an "RVS vote" trying to get a claim, an unvote immediately following the claim because he suddenly "isnt feeling the lynch," then another vote without reason. 838 is a legit question i guess. then 1028 contradicts his unvote.

I'll ask you again, what changed from your interpretation of Dunns unvote in your reads list since the BS vote came after that read list?

Why are you presenting Dunn as this hidden gem nobody has noticed when people like Farside has brought up them before?

the null read was based on me being not confident and looking at the posts in the context of the thread on that page. the scum read was me going back and looking over dunn's iso. maybe we should be listening to farside. no one is.

am i missing something? why is chemist scum?

I can buy that explanation

Do you have nothing further to remark about mine or PPs read

[HoldenGolden]

I have seen town players play very similar to Dunn's playstyle.
Votato is no longer confirmable. I think he is an "optimal mislynch".

Is that due to how the wagons and game stalled, or simply your read on votato?

[HoldenGolden]

I’d lynch GH over votato if we’re going there. Votato feels like he’s trying and moonlogicking where GH doesn’t and they are otherwise very similar in that I can’t actually remember any of their points.

What does moon logic king mean?

Read my ISO and see why I'm suspecting votato then. Me and other people like farside still have issues with how he is posting. If you have a counterargument to it, then I'd love to hear it.

[HoldenGolden]

The fact I'm okay with voting everyone on the blatant scum wagon makes me lean that blatant scum might be blatant town!

Ok let's go further. Who do you think on that wagon is scummy if anybody? I dont remember you talking about Dr easy bake nor Calvin iirc (though I may be wrong on the latter)

[HoldenGolden]

That doesn't sound like a town role.

-Calvin

idk role is really too weird for it to be any of town or scum, but there's no third party either

What If there was a fourth party?

[HoldenGolden]

The fact I'm okay with voting everyone on the blatant scum wagon makes me lean that blatant scum might be blatant town!

Ok let's go further. Who do you think on that wagon is scummy if anybody? I dont remember you talking about Dr easy bake nor Calvin iirc (though I may be wrong on the latter)

Probably because I haven't. I have a bit of a habit of keeping information in my head until I suddenly find a need to say it or someone prompts me about it. I used to have a spamming problem so it slowly got into a habit of me just collecting my thoughts and only spilling if asked.

Dr Easy Bake is acting so different compared to the other game I played with him and even then it feels like his reads are planned. I wouldn't mind voting him at the moment. The Calvin hydra hasn't really posted anything I find interesting or extremely town. Considering it's a hydra and the amount they've posted at this point that's kinda a worry.

Well the Calvin hydra is not really a hydra right now since the Hobbes part isn't posting.

Can you show where you see DEB being planned in his reads? A good chuck of people saw his catch up as a stream of conciousness.

[HoldenGolden]

I have seen town players play very similar to Dunn's playstyle.
Votato is no longer confirmable. I think he is an "optimal mislynch".

Is that due to how the wagons and game stalled, or simply your read on votato?

I think Votato's claim is towny. Yes, I read Penguin's ISO. I called him "optimal mislynch" because:
1) I wanted to be quoted
2) People still scumread him and he is basically unconfirmable.

Idk why reading penguins ISO is a required statement but ok.

How does 2 confirm him as an optional mislynch any more over you being wrong?

[HoldenGolden]

How does 2 confirm him as an optional mislynch any more over you being wrong?

Are you asking why I think his lynch would be a mislynch?

No, I understand why from your PoV you see his as a mislynch.

I'm confused about how reason two proves anything beyond it just confirming your PoV. I would understand If you said that you scumread people on his wagon, or as before, thought he was confirmable as that's a specific reason to why he is a mislynch. That's why I thought you said he was a mislynch; since it implies you have some view on the wagon dynamics etc.

With the way reason two is worded, I can use it on everybody. "I town read birds. People are scumreading him and hes unconfirmable. Hes an optimal mislynch". It doesnt really explain much about your PoV other than hes town.

[HoldenGolden]

Why the scum read on GH?

I don't. I think they're both pretty null. A scumread would require that I actually pay attention to their posts.

I feel like the unicorn is more likely town, but I don't actually have a read on either.

Welcome to the university of Holden. Your online zoom assignment today is to read mine and Votatos iso. This is worth 75% of your grade.

[HoldenGolden]

Townier side is the left side

Hard town: votato, HoldenGolden, Dr Easy Bake, Clover Ebi, April Ludgate, Creature
Town: mastina, chemist1422, Birds and the Boys, Conspire
Town but with mixed feelings: Calvin and Hobbes
Null: Bingle
Scum: PenguinPower, Dunnstral, Blatant Scum, farside22

Is your townread on votato based on more than the claim (IE his content?)

[HoldenGolden]

I don't really get the journey of Farside's iso.
Farside votes Votato, disbelieves Votato's claim, switches to Clover Ebi, switches to Dunnstral for his vote on Votato, says she nullreads Votato, then says Votato's reaction to their wagon was town, then votes Votato again (immediately after Dunnstral unvotes)

citing Holden's push which isn't really that much of a push and happens after HG unvotes

It feels kinda like votes are being made to predict and respond to the flow of the game rather than interact directly with it, with inferences generally made on the outcome of that flow rather than trying to place people on the individual level they occupy within it.

While I do understand what your saying about farside, i do want to point out that I did in fact vote votato on the same page as I explained the Calvin test.

[HoldenGolden]

Gonna be blunt: I am suffering from very very very VERY bad depression right now on the verge of site flaking bad levels of just...negative emotions. Some measures have managed to stave the effects of this a bit, but I need to take one more; one of the things fueling the potential for a siteflake is my desire to read the entirety of this game in spite of having absolutely zero motive to do so and the game getting longer with each and every day making the task more daunting every single time I don't try.

So in order to stay in the game, I have to kill it.

I'm way, way, way too tired to play the game tonight,

but

, tomorrow, I will be reading from this post.
If someone would be so kind as to catch me up on the 1200 posts in the game as you would if I were a replacement, I'll be in better straights tomorrow, so like.
Tomorrow, will be reading from post 1200 onward. Want me to know of something from before then? Then make sure I'm aware of it because I literally can't handle reading them all.

I don't know who you really are, but <3's towards your way. Depression is a bitch that deserves to be beaten with a stick and shot in the woods. I wish the best.

[HoldenGolden]

Nah that seems a bit of a stretch. I am pushing my scum reads. How can some predict and direct flow?
I never heard that term before.

I've done it before as scum where I publically defended who I thought was cop (turns out I was right) while pushing a mislynch so that town, realizing they are wrong, would follow me.

[HoldenGolden]

I can see the townie motivation of making people inquire about your reads. Specially when the game has stalled a bit. My bigger issue concerning it though his how much he is self aware of his meta which muddies the true intentions of it more.

Farside, I dont think the read is a stretch even though I don't agree with JJs interpretation. Though, the best way to evaluate it is to play his game to see what his actual reasonings are.

So JJ:
-Is there any part of your votato read that is based on content that you omitted in 1203?
-since that is a half read requesting and they do correlate, I want to hear your PP read.

[HoldenGolden]

Is your townread on votato based on more than the claim (IE his content?)

Negative.

I saw 1203, just curious to see if there is more content focus since for JJ it was his reaction to being forced to claim.

If there are content related townread on him I want to hear them.

[HoldenGolden]

Welcome to the university of Holden. Your online zoom assignment today is to read mine and Votatos iso. This is worth 75% of your grade.

Good luck with that.

Also, jj looks town. Not picking up the beats he's laying, but that's not particularly worrisome at this point.

jj/farside is aggressively boring as far as fights go.

What if I throw in a home made cake?

[HoldenGolden]

We literally can confirm the role, votato votes are scummy.

And if a role block comes in somewhere then it’s confirmed roleblock and we can lynch votato tomorrow.

No we realistically cannot given his addtional information about his role.

Town votato would be a prime target to get roleblocked. Scum votato can just claim to be rbed. Thus votato claiming to be roleblocked day 2 would be NAI.

If we do somehow coordinate a town KP, you, and votato (who all have to be town for it to work) all on the same person without scum interference, then we all should laugh before beating the scum team for being incompetent.

Tldr: the only way town!votato can be confirmed given what we know is if the scum team makes a mistake (or they dont have a roleblocker/way to stop it). As such the plan to confirm him is far too risky since scum!votato can lie about the rb and then the town KP needed to set it all off kills the target. It can be minimized I guess by choosing a scummy person to kill theoretically, but then that's also going down the rabbit hole of further role speculation.

[HoldenGolden]

Is it possible to get a Dr Easy Bake wagon going?
VOTE: Dr Easy Bake

Not unless you provided the quotes I asked about where you see Dr. Easybake forced in his tone.

[HoldenGolden]

I can see the townie motivation of making people inquire about your reads. Specially when the game has stalled a bit. My bigger issue concerning it though his how much he is self aware of his meta which muddies the true intentions of it more.

Farside, I dont think the read is a stretch even though I don't agree with JJs interpretation. Though, the best way to evaluate it is to play his game to see what his actual reasonings are.

So JJ:
-Is there any part of your votato read that is based on content that you omitted in 1203?
-since that is a half read requesting and they do correlate, I want to hear your PP read.

My votato read is pretty much entirely based on the claim. If I'm in a position where I'm allowed to be lazy on reads because of something like that, then I'm gonna be lazy on reads.

PP has done too many things I disagree with to go in my town pile but honestly I don't think I want to lynch there on reflection

Then you should have no problem quoting a synopsis of them and explaining why you disagree with him and what about it is scummy.

As disagreeing with someone posts =/= them being scum strictly speaking.

[HoldenGolden]

Dunnstral, Dr Easy Bake, Chemist, or Creature probably has scum in it.

Based on what?

RNG

While I think April's premise is bad (as its using the association of votato being town rather than purely wagon dynamics), I was able to follow it clearly since it's quite literally the posts from her right above it?

[HoldenGolden]

Okay, I'm back!
@DEB: "Failed Mason claim"? Did you not think it was obviously fake? What was the fail?

-Calvin

Do you still think we are scum?

---

Could everyone give me their top 1-2 townreads?

-turducken

HoldenGolden

Farside is decently high still on my list. Most of the people who get close to the top posts something that pings me which is probably a sign that I need to loosen up from the gameplan I entered with.

Assuming how jj answers he can be promoted to townhood

[HoldenGolden]

Creature can move into the town pile

[HoldenGolden]

We literally can confirm the role, votato votes are scummy.

And if a role block comes in somewhere then it’s confirmed roleblock and we can lynch votato tomorrow.

No we realistically cannot given his addtional information about his role.

Town votato would be a prime target to get roleblocked. Scum votato can just claim to be rbed. Thus votato claiming to be roleblocked day 2 would be NAI.

If we do somehow coordinate a town KP, you, and votato (who all have to be town for it to work) all on the same person without scum interference, then we all should laugh before beating the scum team for being incompetent.

Tldr: the only way town!votato can be confirmed given what we know is if the scum team makes a mistake (or they dont have a roleblocker/way to stop it). As such the plan to confirm him is far too risky since scum!votato can lie about the rb and then the town KP needed to set it all off kills the target. It can be minimized I guess by choosing a scummy person to kill theoretically, but then that's also going down the rabbit hole of further role speculation.

why are you so sure scum has a roleblocker?

Krazy admitted that there is a potential for ~7 dead flips in one night. I would imagine scum has some ways to counter that as it clearly indicates town has KP.

Scum jk would actually make more sense to me skill test wise (which can serve as a rb or save for mafia member), but it's purely speculation given what Krazy put forth.

(I actually read the set up to a game for once)

[HoldenGolden]

votato looks sketchy and so does his claim, but his insistence on being comfortable looks genuine and he also seems annoyed at being wagoned. Perhaps I'd leave him at the top of the not-so-town tier (votato > Bingle > Calvin)

Let me consider this BS before I give you my lynch pool

[HoldenGolden]

votato looks sketchy and so does his claim, but his insistence on being comfortable looks genuine and he also seems annoyed at being wagoned. Perhaps I'd leave him at the top of the not-so-town tier (votato > Bingle > Calvin)

I understand the genuine argument with his posting and would say that's probably his most townie quality content wise.

I disagree about being annoyed with the wagon though = town. I dont feel the frustration he displayed coming from town PoV with the example being the opening statement on his reads list where he accused people of not caring about his reads.

I feel town! Would be more aggressive with that thought and actively start questioning people about it to see if their accusers/the people judging their slot is town or scum. Votato didnt so that. He gave a passive comment about it and then proceeded to not follow up with that train of thought in a manner that indicates town. It does, however, make more sense coming from scum!votato. That passive style coupled with his reads from that post which are also quite passive (me being aggressive and optimistic yet no read. Pp being weird yet not directly calling him scum etc.) Leads me to feel its scum!votato

[HoldenGolden]

We literally can confirm the role, votato votes are scummy.

And if a role block comes in somewhere then it’s confirmed roleblock and we can lynch votato tomorrow.

No we realistically cannot given his addtional information about his role.

Town votato would be a prime target to get roleblocked. Scum votato can just claim to be rbed. Thus votato claiming to be roleblocked day 2 would be NAI.

If we do somehow coordinate a town KP, you, and votato (who all have to be town for it to work) all on the same person without scum interference, then we all should laugh before beating the scum team for being incompetent.

Tldr: the only way town!votato can be confirmed given what we know is if the scum team makes a mistake (or they dont have a roleblocker/way to stop it). As such the plan to confirm him is far too risky since scum!votato can lie about the rb and then the town KP needed to set it all off kills the target. It can be minimized I guess by choosing a scummy person to kill theoretically, but then that's also going down the rabbit hole of further role speculation.

Wastling a vigi shot probably isn't worth confirming votato.

Also, depends on how you use it.

I think if the bullet confirms his dead unicorn corpse it wouldnt be wasted

I'm fine lynching votato/bird (I'm not feeling their reactions post wagon pile up)/PP (who seems more worried about telling people their scumread on him is wrong)

That pool can grow and shift quite a lot especially depending on how clover and JJ responses. Clover bugged me for pushing the DEB read before actually providing evidence of his claim that I asked for. JJ for his Pp read which effects both his and pps standings in the pool.

Dunn/chem are lurker lynches imo.

[HoldenGolden]

Then vote fotahdo.

No, he claims to be confirmable

Yes. If he AND April can predict where mafia strikes.

I mean I could help as town's 1 shot mafia goon confused miller, but april has been mean to me

[HoldenGolden]

Got em coach.
-----
I got the message PP from the godfather post. Once it/if it happens, then you shall be removed. It's that simple.

Until the mod actually confirms you, it's a game of trust. Your hyper focus on proving to people about the confirm status bothers me. If you want me to trust you more, than use the fact you have the power to mod confirm yourself and push reads outside of Votato. The only one put forward so far by your own accord was the Dunn read. The rest have been in response to people calling you out.

So who's town? Who's your other scum reads? Answer BS question, what's your lynch pool?

[HoldenGolden]

why should we put weight in you saying you're mod confirmable without you actually being mod confirmed?

Even the unicorn gets it.

[HoldenGolden]

Because I can prove it through the moderator and it doesn't require any sort of coordination of activities? Wow...great question.

Target me tonight with any action and the mod tells you that I am town + you get a sick gif of my choosing.

Your in luck since I'm a multiple user personality confused miller
----
I know your focus is on getting votato lynched because it's your only focus. That's my issue. You justified creating a situation where that is allowed to be your own focused. And even with that focus, I see inconsistencies. Creature just gave reasons for town!votato and your not taking a stance against it. It feels off for you to create a narrow mindset and then not even follow it 100% of the time.

You bring it up everytime your suspected and then sit back on the tunnel. Dont tell me why that doesnt look suspicious regardless of you claiming your mod confirmable?

Pedit: I mean it's pretty obvious the general role ball park he is claiming

[HoldenGolden]

Why would I claim to be mod confirmable as scum and tell people exactly how to confirm me? What's my play when it doesn't work?

Theres ways to explain it from scum pov.

And there you go not listening to what I'm saying. I'm not suspecting you because of the claim to be provable nor the fact your tunneling, its HOW your doing it that's my issue. I dont see the motivation in not following up every instance where someone claims votato is town and logically prove why they are incorrect vs repeating "potato is scum" for the same reasons if THATS all you want to focus on for an entire day phase

I agree with Votato. We are talking pass each other at this point.

[HoldenGolden]

+ since there will still be people like Holden that say "well,

I

didn't get confirmation from the mod that you're town so you aren't" (if for whatever reason scum keep me alive) a flipped town player who confirmed me would shut that person up. So, again, earlier rather than later.

"when your mod confirmed then your mod confirmed" that's what I said.

If people come out day 2 and confirm you then good, your confirmed. All I've literally said is that until then I'm not considering you as mod confirmed which is fair.

Peace be in our times

[HoldenGolden]

Fish

Pedit- yes I'm going to call you out for it bc I dont find it particularly helpful regardless of your alignment

If your town it hopefully lits a fire under your ass
If your scum it lites a fire under your ass

Fish is great tho

[HoldenGolden]

Holden, do you think that a scum PP would really make that sort of claim?

Can we get more votes on Dunnstral please? That iso is terrible.

- turducken

I think there are ways scum!PP can pull it off depending on how he handles it.

It's not an optimal strategy, but in having issues understanding his play from a town POV which is what lead me to doubt his claim.

[HoldenGolden]

We literally can confirm the role, votato votes are scummy.

And if a role block comes in somewhere then it’s confirmed roleblock and we can lynch votato tomorrow.

No we realistically cannot given his addtional information about his role.

Town votato would be a prime target to get roleblocked. Scum votato can just claim to be rbed. Thus votato claiming to be roleblocked day 2 would be NAI.

If we do somehow coordinate a town KP, you, and votato (who all have to be town for it to work) all on the same person without scum interference, then we all should laugh before beating the scum team for being incompetent.

Tldr: the only way town!votato can be confirmed given what we know is if the scum team makes a mistake (or they dont have a roleblocker/way to stop it). As such the plan to confirm him is far too risky since scum!votato can lie about the rb and then the town KP needed to set it all off kills the target. It can be minimized I guess by choosing a scummy person to kill theoretically, but then that's also going down the rabbit hole of further role speculation.

How do you know scum have a roleblocker?

This is also something that gets figured out this way, i don’t get the hold up.

Votato isn’t even like the #1 choice, he looks like low hanging fruit in the first place. Impatience in people is scummy.

I already answer this. 7~ people can die at maximum. I refuse to believe that scum doesnt have some way to protect themselves like a rb or JK.

And the rb only provides info if you or the KP needed for the stunt to be pulled off is rbed. Votato being rbed is NAI and would be the target of an rb in that set up since scum gets a cleaned flipped.

[HoldenGolden]

We literally can confirm the role, votato votes are scummy.

And if a role block comes in somewhere then it’s confirmed roleblock and we can lynch votato tomorrow.

No we realistically cannot given his addtional information about his role.

Town votato would be a prime target to get roleblocked. Scum votato can just claim to be rbed. Thus votato claiming to be roleblocked day 2 would be NAI.

If we do somehow coordinate a town KP, you, and votato (who all have to be town for it to work) all on the same person without scum interference, then we all should laugh before beating the scum team for being incompetent.

Tldr: the only way town!votato can be confirmed given what we know is if the scum team makes a mistake (or they dont have a roleblocker/way to stop it). As such the plan to confirm him is far too risky since scum!votato can lie about the rb and then the town KP needed to set it all off kills the target. It can be minimized I guess by choosing a scummy person to kill theoretically, but then that's also going down the rabbit hole of further role speculation.

Wastling a vigi shot probably isn't worth confirming votato.

Don’t you think he’s scum?

It’s not a waste if he’s scum.

This is literally the point of it all.

If a kill goes through, he is essentially confirmed scum. If not, then he’s town or scum and I was blocked or he was blocked. That’s great info.

People who are trying to against this are just plain scummy regardless of your read on Votato.

I’m actually dead null on Votato as of right now tbh. I just don’t care enough to think about the slot today when i can get more info out of it over night.

Because it requires 3 Town PRs assuming that votato and you are town to pull off and has a high chance of giving scum a second kill that would be cleaned if they have a common role or if votato is scum?

Your plan has a chance. It's effectively putting all your chips on one number in roulette though. At that point we can just bet on there being an invest role to check him and free up whoever the town PRs are for use else where.

Pedit: what? Souldnt that instead implied I scumslipped since I brought up the vig comment?

[HoldenGolden]

If anything you just slipped that your a vig lol.

[HoldenGolden]

We literally can confirm the role, votato votes are scummy.

And if a role block comes in somewhere then it’s confirmed roleblock and we can lynch votato tomorrow.

No we realistically cannot given his addtional information about his role.

Town votato would be a prime target to get roleblocked. Scum votato can just claim to be rbed. Thus votato claiming to be roleblocked day 2 would be NAI.

If we do somehow coordinate a town KP, you, and votato (who all have to be town for it to work) all on the same person without scum interference, then we all should laugh before beating the scum team for being incompetent.

Tldr: the only way town!votato can be confirmed given what we know is if the scum team makes a mistake (or they dont have a roleblocker/way to stop it). As such the plan to confirm him is far too risky since scum!votato can lie about the rb and then the town KP needed to set it all off kills the target. It can be minimized I guess by choosing a scummy person to kill theoretically, but then that's also going down the rabbit hole of further role speculation.

Wastling a vigi shot probably isn't worth confirming votato.

Don’t you think he’s scum?

It’s not a waste if he’s scum.

This is literally the point of it all.

If a kill goes through, he is essentially confirmed scum. If not, then he’s town or scum and I was blocked or he was blocked. That’s great info.

People who are trying to against this are just plain scummy regardless of your read on Votato.

I’m actually dead null on Votato as of right now tbh. I just don’t care enough to think about the slot today when i can get more info out of it over night.

Because it requires 3 Town PRs assuming that votato and you are town to pull off and has a high chance of giving scum a second kill that would be cleaned if they have a common role or if votato is scum?

Your plan has a chance. It's effectively putting all your chips on one number in roulette though. At that point we can just bet on there being an invest role to check him and free up whoever the town PRs are for use else where.

Pedit: what? Souldnt that instead implied I scumslipped since I brought up the vig comment?

There’s literally no downside...idk why people are acting like there is. We can just lynch him tomorrow if he isn’t confirmed.

No, you didn’t say that Votato and I have to target the scum kill.

Why would the scum kill matter? He doesn’t protect a regular scum kill, he can only protect people that have been janitored.

BS slipped that the scum kill is a factional janitor.

Votato said:
-target must be targeted with an attack and attempt to be cleaned
Which is why I said:
-Then the plan needs a 3rd town KP to make sure the plan works.
Then BS says
-no need to waste a vig shot

A vig is the most common form of town KP. And there is a major downside if votato is scum or scum had RB since we are trading 1-3 town pr actions (depending on you and votato alignment) for 1 of scums actions at most.

I'm confused april

[HoldenGolden]

The only reason I'm not crazed over the dunn lynch is that I've seen a game where town!dunn is the same here.

Terribly out dated meta but still

[HoldenGolden]

The only reason I'm not crazed over the dunn lynch is that I've seen a game where town!dunn is the same here.

Terribly out dated meta but still

Most recent Dunnstral meta shows he is way more involved in games as town. He actually is trying to solve stuff. Here... he is not.

- turducken

Then i retract my statement and welcome him to the pool

VOTE: Dunnstral

I can help as well since I'm the One Shot Macho confused flying pumpkin that shoots lasers out of its ass miller.

[HoldenGolden]

I find it interesting how people on this site lynch lurkers without making such a big fuss about it.

@Holden

The reason I dislike Dr Easy Bake is mostly based on his behavior. It's not even close to what I played with before. I don't get how he has the reads he does and I feel like they're not genuine. It's not amazing reasoning but it's my own.

I get that, but I'm asking for you to show why you think they arent genuine. What posts gave you the indication that they are forced reads/reactions.

That's all I want. Burden of proof

[HoldenGolden]

*pats unicorn*
Its okay. I feel pretty sure your scum based on a lot of your wishy washy responses.

You are very lucky I'm not feeling doing my best not to tunnel you. But if that vote count turns to you, I will be there so fast.

Votato is this banter from Farside normal given your playing experience with them?

[HoldenGolden]

Anyway, this is what I got right now

jj town
conspire scum
April lean town
Penguin lean town
clover lean scum
Blatant Scum scum
votaytoh lean scum
Calvin lean town, failed mason claim imo, but not scum indicative necessarily.

Before this post he had mostly filler posting that wasn't really anything to blink at. You could see traces of what you'd expect but this list just doesn't seem genuine to me? With no reasoning I don't see how he got this list. I can't really prove much on this because he doesn't give any reasons that I can dig into, so it's more gut.

if ur not voting chemist ur just helping the scum team.

which is fine for holden but the rest of you know better.

VOTE: chemist

~fire

If I missed it, my bad, but I don't see where you ACTUALLY GIVE A DAMN REASON BEHIND THIS!

This feels like a strong overreaction

Lol wait did I actually hammer BS?

I think he's playing dumb with this post. It seems pretty forced. Like he's trying to have a casual air in his posting.

You can be moved to the town pool

Can you give a description of how he was when you played with him last? Others were describing his town style as lolcapping, so I had read the quoted overreaction more like a continuation of that.

(It might be that I read his posts in his pfp's voice)

[HoldenGolden]

HoldenGolden - active, townleader,

claim(s)

fixed it

Where am I being a townleader outside of the plan discussion? Most of my posts has been me prodding for infomation rather than leading the town.

[HoldenGolden]

I have some stronger town reads. My top scum reads are PP (waiting for confirmation), dunn, and BS. Still a whole lot of people I'm having trouble figuring out. jjh and birds are my strongest townreads.

Oh yeah
UNVOTE: VOTE: Votato

You aren't allowed to not take me up on my offer to explain the PP read awhile ago just to pick it back up pages later and assimilate my reasoning on the slot as your own.

[HoldenGolden]

i've repeatedly said i think its a bit early to have solid reads on people. But that said, I don't think the people asking for my reads really care about the reads, and are using them to test me. Here are some thoughts anyway.

PP: posting has been a bit strange. Some of the reactions seem forced, and he seems too eager to put pressure on me/lynch me.

conspire: i think this is where the wagon came from, and while I definitely dont townread conspire the vote wasnt opportunistic, so even if scum, this isnt the scum I'm looking for.
farside: townread her. she seems a bit fence-sitty on the wagon, both defending and attacking me, but i think its her trying to keep an open mind and remain objective. Because of our history, i townread her for that, although i suppose it could just as easily be that she is pretending to keep an open mind as scum.
april: similar to farside, but without any personal history. She gets townpoints for taking the time to read and understand my posts rather than just assume everything questionable is scummy.
dunnstral: this is probably the scummiest. first post in thread: puts someone at L-1. Second post in thread: unvotes, because he isnt "feeling this lynch". I'd say this is a good option for a wagon.
BS: we've been over this previously. the lack of contribution yet wanting to push for claims seems not town-aligned, but other people who know him better seem not to think much of it.
mastina: null
holden: seems the most opportunistic. was a late-comer to the wagon, and suddenly became very aggressive. Not sure how to interpret that alignment-wise.
im sure im missing some people here, but i went back through quite a lot of pages looking for votes.

Am I the only one who doesnt think much of Dr. Easy Bake's catch-up?

This is the only post I found prior to me and Pingu getting into our tussle where you picked up the mod confirmed stuff. I asked you shortly after this came out to expand on your PP and me reads since they are implying something but didn't actually call it scum/town (and gave you free range to use whatever posts and not just those pertaining to your wagon). If I am going off this alone, then I am to assume that you are scum leaning PP for forced reactions and the tunneling. When PP did it later with JJ, I would expect you to voice something there since at that time the mod confirmation had seemingly no impact on your read (if it did, please explain).

You didn't, and it laid silent till the tussle where it resurfaced and took on aspects of my discussion with him (modconfirm ability). That's why I have an issue with it. It clearly peaked your interest enough to describe it as strange, but you didn't revisit it on your own. Rather, it took me bringing up the points for you. Its 12 AM, so if I missed something, than feel free to point me to the right direction.

While I'm here talking to you. Can you explain your bird townread? Last instance I saw was you talking about how they got AI out of chemist's slot. Can you describe what lead you to consider them town?

[HoldenGolden]

also, it seems really strange to include a role that has the capacity to be mod-confirmed day 1, and has incentive do to it so easily that when theres even the slightest amount of pressure, with no wagon, the player claims.

I will concede that, rereading, this point with pingu is your own. Though my issue of me having to spark your motivation to consider a player you had what I assumed to be a scum lean without declaring a scum lean is still there.

[HoldenGolden]

Votato wagon is for tomorrow.

Have some damn patience.

I am a simple donkey. I see a reason to pressure him -> I pressure him.

I'm extracting as much info as I can out of him, so that if he is town, I might find a reason not to lynch him tomorrow in the case I am wrong. If I am correct and he is scum, we have that much more info to go off of when he flips red.

Its not about patience; it's about time management. If Dunn was here, I would grill him too since my meta point no longer stands true enough to let him exist in the lurker pool.

[HoldenGolden]

Votato wagon is for tomorrow.

Have some damn patience.

Forever scum <3

[HoldenGolden]

also, it seems really strange to include a role that has the capacity to be mod-confirmed day 1, and has incentive do to it so easily that when theres even the slightest amount of pressure, with no wagon, the player claims.

I will concede that, rereading, this point with pingu is your own. Though my issue of me having to spark your motivation to consider a player you had what I assumed to be a scum lean without declaring a scum lean is still there.

i think if you read through my ISO you'll find more than just the one interaction with PP. it takes more than one interaction to convince someone to tunnel you this hard. I dunno, i guess i should have been more explicit? Im wary of pressuring people who are pressuring me, because in my experience it leads to counterproductive catfights. and im really not very catty. as it turns out though, i was right not to apply more pressure to PP. the pressure already applied led to a pretty serious tunnel. For a while i was really wary of saying anything since everything i said got scumread, and it seemed like the universal consensus was that im scum. I poked a couple of hornet's nests and lost my confidence. I think i have a slightly better feel for the game now, although I'm still struggling to read a lot of people, since people like bingle and creature seem to be more or less unreadable and there are a bunch of inactives. And then theres someone like HG who i keep going back and forth on.

the birds read is a metaread based on firebringer. i realize that the hydra has four heads, but about half the posts are his, and the rest seem to come from a similar place. they also seem to see the game the same way i do, for the most part.

moonlogic? probably.

I do see the interactions prior to the reads list and understand what lead to the read post. That's part I understand. Its the gap between that and the PP tussle a few pages ago that i'm confused about.

I understand; I know not everyone handles stress of being scum read the same and townies can become passive in the face of it. That's my main goal with you rn. Seeing if you are genuinely fizzled out town or passive frailing scum. Although I find a major issue with the PP read and a lot of your play, I did see a small glimpse of towniess in that you wanted to fight between me and him to end. That's why I want to get more out of you now because I see a reason to doubt myself.

It's clear my approach isn't working, so let me offer a counter measure:
UNVOTE:

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume for a moment I am wrong. I'm fine with the meta read rational with bird and the explanation given for the more lurking players. Do you feel comfortable attempting to articulate your view on me? I care less about rather its a scum, town, or somewhere inbetween. I want to see your PoV and logic of what you find scummy and town, and I think from what you said your rational on me would help sort you. If not, then can you talk about who else you are conflicted that you keep going back and forth on?

[HoldenGolden]

Forgot to mention last night, but I'm moving out of dorm (finally) today and will be absent till later tonight.

[HoldenGolden]

Alright woke up later than wanted but time to zoom catch up

[HoldenGolden]

PP's Unofficial Pagetop Votecount 1.1

Dr Easy Bake(7)

~ Clover Ebi(32), Dunnstral(50), Calvin and Hobbes(110), Birds and the Boys(144), votato(106), chemist1422(29), farside22(88)

votato(2)

~ mastina(37), PenguinPower(227)

farside22(2)

~ Creature(142), jjh927(117)

Dunnstral(2)

~ Bingle(82), April Ludgate(192)

Birds and the Boys(2)

~ Conspire(80), Blatant Scum(142)

Blatant Scum(1)

~ Dr Easy Bake(33)


Not Voting (1): HoldenGolden(169)

With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2020-05-11 11:45:52)

[HoldenGolden]

VOTE: DrEasyBake
In case he isnt dead since theres no way to move it.

sure. I only read from post 100 in your ISO, so theres more stuff before that, but mostly i have the same vibes. if you need i can go back further tomorrow. essentially, i see you asking a lot of questions and probing, but i dont see you pushing or pressing people. questioning people is pro-town, but also easy to do as scum. Between the questions and fluff, there arent a whole lot of posts where we see what HG is thinking. You dont present a lot of opinions or info collected from the questions.

the few opinions you have expressed are largely about methodology/theory. I like the pressure you put on PP both because of how you did it and where you put it. But it quickly passed into negative marginal returns. When i pointed that out though, you backed off, even when PP didnt. So overall, that gives you at least some town points.

but then you have the occasional post that i really dont like:

Spoiler:

Vote birds with me

He did ban me from the scum PT

UNVOTE: VOTE: Birds and boys

I still need responses from Votato before hes removed from my scum list

we are way past RVS here, and a wagon is forming. ill ignore the scumclaim both because youre talking to firebringer and because i scumclaim, including a couple times in this game iirc. this post seems so out of the blue. i didnt see any progression towards voting birds, and then there it is. maybe that comes if i read back further?

Okay, I'm back!
@DEB: "Failed Mason claim"? Did you not think it was obviously fake? What was the fail?

-Calvin

Do you still think we are scum?

---

Could everyone give me their top 1-2 townreads?

-turducken

HoldenGolden

Farside is decently high still on my list. Most of the people who get close to the top posts something that pings me which is probably a sign that I need to loosen up from the gameplan I entered with.

Assuming how jj answers he can be promoted to townhood

here you deflect the question, not actually providing townreads. One townread that you dont commit to or provide reasons for, and then you say that you suspect everyone and cant come up with a townread.

Reminder to cross check with ISO in terms of providing read information and the PP interaction. I know I did with creature's votato read, but not sure I did elsewhere since I am/was doing a new playstyle

Creature should of been in that town post too. Size of the game is too large. But in any case, how is that a deflection of the question when its admitting that I'm having issues townhunting this game?
--------
Assuming that there is no major flaws in the logic here, I kinda like this post actually. I knew it was going to be wishy washy since he said he was that on me, but the logic is sound as long as it is correct (and original too)

[HoldenGolden]

Holden why did you want to hear from me specifically?

[...]

-Hobbes

HES ALIVE. WHERE DID CALVIN TOUCH YOU SON???

I was having difficulty evaluating Calvin and wanted the second head (you) to post to try and get more of a better read.

[HoldenGolden]

It’s not important.its just the fact that we can, why don’t we try? I’m just always kind of annoyed when people are just impatient about things and act like it’s a now or nothing kind of deal and there’s no other options and they get held up with their reads on Day 1, so that definitely has a lot to do with it.

There’s just really no harm in waiting, but there’s giant benefit if we pull it off, and it’s the lack of even caring about that that really gets me.

Its irrelevant now, but I'll explain it briefly:

I dont believe in the plan due to possible shenanigans from mafia which doesnt reveal anything if Votato claims to be rbed (I've explained this). Even if I did think so, since it can fail, I rather push him and get more content to evaluate him since day 2, if the plan fails by your own admission, it's free game to lynch him. 2 days worth of pressured content is > than 1 especially when the majority of people's read on him is more about the claim and less about content (making it easy to pick up or defend without breaking progression regardless of Votato alignment)

#mathisscummy

[HoldenGolden]

Votato read though is a bit more legitimate, for the original points. He didn't bother to understand his role. What's more likely - town not asking for clarification on their role, or scum not bothering to have asked for an explanation of their provided fakeclaim?

-Calvin

Speaking of which, example A few posts down lol.

[HoldenGolden]

Votato and April, remember to target Mastina. You both agreed to this earlier in the game. I do not want to hear anything that you both didn't target the same person.

Assuming that they did indeed to that.

We should have a confirmation on votato/April's roles. Moreover, unless there is another janitor/vig combo that shot Bingle, I'm going to assume that is the mafia NK which means mafia has ways of using janitor powers.

I'm basing this off the drowned flavor text most likely being too focused to be something like a mafia night kill. Makes more sense for an aquatic animal actions.

[HoldenGolden]

Also, if anybody can confirmed PPs role, that would be nice.

Pedit: yeah I highly doubt vig targeted bingle

[HoldenGolden]

VOTE: Votato

Explain unicorn.

I see why April was fighting mindlessly for the plan now lol.

[HoldenGolden]

How does it work exactly?

Written out it sounds we still need an additional KP to actually kill it since it just seems to lift restrictions

[HoldenGolden]

I just like being right.

It's nice.

Likewise. I'm glad my d1 reaction Calvin test worked out.

[HoldenGolden]

Wait but if Votato killed Calvin, and we agree that Bingle was the target of mafia janitor and NK, that means that votato has to have a vig like role correct?

[HoldenGolden]

Because otherwise bingle doesnt make sense from a town presepctive unless shot by janitor vig combo. I doubt a townjanitor without KP in their role would randomly target Bingle.

Pedit: well alright there goes that train of thought

[HoldenGolden]

Right - but why are we discounting janitor/vig combo?

I'm not. I'm saying outside of those roles combined + presentation of flavor, bingle kill was most likely mafia nk.

I didn't see anybody attempt to organize a plan to shoot bingle so the roles have to be combined for one slot to do it.

Pedit: Probably multitasker as well since he could do both.

[HoldenGolden]

The prosecution rests its case


Time to reread peoples reactions to Votato bandwagon day 1

[HoldenGolden]

Well - maybe. I'm mod-confirmed town now.

Exactly like what scum would say

Spoiler: Mafia dont read this. Eyes only for the PP

MAFIA, I TOLD YOU NOT TO READ THIS YOU C**T

*ahm*

Let's bicker again so mafia thinks you are a mislynch.

[HoldenGolden]

I'm leading the goat people to a glorious new home. Until I done, I'm gonna be a bit busy and wont be on till tonight probably.

I also got the one shot janitor information as well.

Additionally scanning the thread I notice people talking about scums ability to change nk flavor? Votato Gore seems to be for his vig ability. We have had two people get drowned back to back which means we have an aquatic vig which was able to shoot twice or it's actually the mafia KP. Trying to work my head around if Bingle shot flavor kill could come from a vig

[HoldenGolden]

I'm finally back at this game. Give me a couple hours to reread.

[HoldenGolden]

“Flips:

Flips may include kill flavor. While this may suggest the role behind the kill,

some killing roles

may be able to obscure or change their flavor. “

Also, this is in the Krazy ruleset, so anyone hanging onto that as a reasoning is scum or surface level.

Votato's role is a killing role that does not have this power, though

Why does he have to be the one to have changed it?

I saw what I saw. And there’s fucking proof with the Bingle shot.

Mafia has ONE fucking shot based on that message, right? 1 janitor shot?

Bingle was janitored.

If nobody claims to have janitored Bingle, then it is confirmed Votato did so to him.

That was ALSO not his fucking kill flavor. This proves something is happening with it

Ah fuck it, ill just state it since my baiting to draw anybody out to claim the missing KP didn't work (not that I thought it would)


I am the missing KP on the Bingle Kill Train. My Flavor for my KP is "Shot". That's why I knew day 2 that Bingle had to be targeted by a janitor/KP combo since like I stated it wouldn't make sense for a random Janitor to come along and just so happen to select the same person I targeted.

[HoldenGolden]

2nd off, I don't really see the scum!Mastina read.

Rereading Day 1, despite her lack of presence in the thread, she backed herself into a really tight corner regarding Votato. While its not out of the question scum could of start bussing Votato day 1 sensing the pressure brought by slots like me, Mastina's stance highly limited any chance for Votato to survive both in her ability to support counter wagons and also fundamentally undermining the fake claim. Furthermore, when comparing the claim progression compared to other's who relied heavily on the claim to get a read off (for example, birds early to mid day 1 read) it doesn't explain the thought process in detail enough to provide wiggle room out of the read. Later posts such as citing Votato as the scum on PP doubt train also doubled down on this.

Since April has confirmed the presence of a RB (most likely scum), that also reassures me of town!mastina. According to April's plan and Gambit, Mastina was to be shot and cleaned by it. Considering this, I don't think scum would be willing to try and lose 2 members before EoD day 2 and would of rbed April out of safety. Now, this is assuming that scum doesn't have other ways to mitigate or heal KP, but it was a high risk situation given what we know so far about the suppose scum RB to not RB April

[HoldenGolden]

*Urge to lynch Holden rises.*

Oh if you know why I shot bingle I am sure this would become serious lol

I'm gonna claim part of my role.

I made everyone strongman night 1.
I also am the one who gave the set up information n2.

I doubt Votato and Holden target the same player as scum together.

Well that would explain some things. I need to look at something real quick

[HoldenGolden]

Wait but he was 2 shot bp right? That still doesn't add up.

Alright, fine:

They say Dunnstral is town.

~Cosmic

What kind of message was it? The same kind of the mod confirmed one or was it something else?

I'm not gonna take that as mod confirmation, but it probably means we shouldn't lynch Dunnstral today regardless.

Ok I know this is hypocritical given what I just revealed about Bingle, but are you telling me you also faked being clueless about everything as a way to bait out KP's? If so, how does that help your read's given what they actually do?

[HoldenGolden]

Oh @Chemist

I want some from of a Readlist. Your posts for this day phase has been 4 with only two directed to the vote. The only explanation you have given for it is doubting the claim. So go further, why do you think April's claim is fake as well as giving me the read list.

[HoldenGolden]

I don't really see a good path forwards here tbh
Most of the game is directly opposed to my reads and I don't have any confidence in the people who will probably end up leading it

And?

If they are scum like you imply in the end of the last sentence, then they are going to end up going after you as well. You keep saying you may/are going to write a write up for your farside scumread, or any significant write up on anybody. I don't feel you are genuinely trying to get your lynches and rather are complaining about it to people like PP to hide through this day phase.

Sell the farside/dunn case to me, or if you believe in chemist now, sell it.

[HoldenGolden]

"You keep saying you may/are going to write a write up for your farside scumread. So write one up, or any significant write up on anybody you want lynched."

[HoldenGolden]

There is a really nice and easy way of placing me where you look at my votes in context and you see what I was doing there, and what I was thinking. Usually people eventually start to do that after playing with me in a game for a bit, rather than scumreading me for not explicitly stating everything I'm doing or thinking. It's all there. You can ask me what I was thinking at previous points in time and I'll probably be able to tell you, too. But it looks like you're not evem reading the few explanations that ARE there for my votes and behaviour, because you think I switched to scumreading Mastina for no reason. I never scumread Mastina, but I gave reasons for the vote which I couldn't uphold for very long at all.

I'm reading your ISO and I can piece together reasons. But I still want a case/write up/etc. So that I can actually figure you out since you have had multiple read and vote progressions this day phase. You look like you are frailing from the suspicion rather than actually trying to shift it.

Ironically "people not understand my reads/not caring ti read my reads" was also Votato's broken record

[HoldenGolden]

Oh @Chemist

I want some from of a Readlist. Your posts for this day phase has been 4 with only two directed to the vote. The only explanation you have given for it is doubting the claim. So go further, why do you think April's claim is fake as well as giving me the read list.

okay hold on

it’s like midnight for me and I’ve barely processed any of the thread but here

{Chemist}
{PP, mastina, Dunnstral}
{Conspire, farside22, Holden}
{jjh, Birds, Clover}
{April}

this feels...pretty alright?
ask me if you want any specifics I’ll probably respond in the morning

Since you later agree with Dunn that the tier I'm placed in is a town read (I'm guessing town lean) tier, what has pushed Conspire to that tier?

[HoldenGolden]

I have april as scum because she keeps changing her claim whenever it gets doubted

I had birds as scum for symmetry pretty much, they're about null but I didn't want to have to make an extra tier for them

Also explain.

The only time I've seen this was with the gambit day 1. From day 2 on she's kept a consistent explaintion of her role (tracker with two other abilities weaker than that -> tracker + Vouyer + Whatever the last one was)

[HoldenGolden]

Like- you said, “ I made everyone strongman” and not “I had to make everyone strongman”

Well, I had options but out of my options, I picked that one first. But yes it is compulsive that at one point I had to make everyone strongman.

I can somewhat buy that Clover's role claim on the face he gave a self rb request eariler this day phase.

Is any of your abilities not antitown?

[HoldenGolden]

I'll be happy to case someone up, especially Chemist after that vote lmao

I care less of whom it is on and more you actually doing something to convince people.

You want to convince people. Convince me.

[HoldenGolden]

Let me shower first and ill be here.

That's an interesting claim