Animals Upick [Game Over]

[votato]

first! VOTE: blatant scum for obvious reasons

[votato]

Who wants to guess my animal?

leopard seal?

[votato]

VOTE: Birds and Boys

no reason for this vote. time to scumwagon, people!

[votato]

Let's Massclaim?

-Calvin

in what world are massclaims ever good for town?

[votato]

I’m pretty sure I knew both of you at some point because of modding, but can’t be bothered to check. As such, I have decided you are MathDino and Ellibereth and will be held to the appropriate standard. You have 20 minutes to catch the scumteam.

I only needed 5:

Clover Ebi + votato + HoldenGolden + Creature

~Cosmic

im scum now? awww

[votato]

VOTE: votato

~Cosmic

UNVOTE:

we get a claim and immediately unvote? lynch this now. since im confirmed scum and conspire is voting me, conspire must be town. so VOTE: bingle

[votato]

ok, just to save you guys the trouble of actually all voting me, ill just claim now:

I am God, vanilla townie. flavor: imaginary animal.

[votato]

if i get daykilled by a townie, and a townie is lynched that day, the lynch doesnt happen. good luck.

[votato]

im pretty behind on this thread at this point, and am at work, so I'll catch up later. to be clear, I'm not really god. that should be obvious. there are no vanilla roles in this game. although i guess its plausible that some people got VT role PMs.

[votato]

I swear I am town

I am pretty excited

excited to be town or excited to be incapacitated or excited to get lynched?

[votato]

The mod said mass claim day 1 would never work. But we don't know unless we try guys! VOTE: Votato

And what's the reasoning behind claiming that information?

In one post you suggest massclaim, in other you are reluctant to even a partial claim.

The first post was a joke during the time I feel like a lot of the playerlist was messing around. In my experience wolves are more likely to miss things like this than town. Unless my joke wasn't obvious than someone do let me know. VOTE: Blatant scum

This is very likely town.

I read it as scummy
His first post doesnt read as though he is joking at all.

"The Mods says X is impossible, but lets do X anyways since we already are trying!"

I don't really see how that's not a joking statement

doesnt it seem reasonable that the scum would want a massclaim day 1? they want to see what flavor/roles are out there, and who to target, but know that it won't work to out them because mod said so? or am I missing something?

[votato]

who wants to join team space leopard seal and eat the cosmic penguins?

[votato]

mafblack is the official skin of this site

isnt that racist?

[votato]

The mod said mass claim day 1 would never work. But we don't know unless we try guys! VOTE: Votato

And what's the reasoning behind claiming that information?

In one post you suggest massclaim, in other you are reluctant to even a partial claim.

The first post was a joke during the time I feel like a lot of the playerlist was messing around. In my experience wolves are more likely to miss things like this than town. Unless my joke wasn't obvious than someone do let me know. VOTE: Blatant scum

This is very likely town.

I read it as scummy
His first post doesnt read as though he is joking at all.

"The Mods says X is impossible, but lets do X anyways since we already are trying!"

I don't really see how that's not a joking statement

doesnt it seem reasonable that the scum would want a massclaim day 1? they want to see what flavor/roles are out there, and who to target, but know that it won't work to out them because mod said so? or am I missing something?

I'm not saying the underlying logic is wrong as I do agree with that, I am saying I don't find how Clover's quoted post can be read as not a joke.

Because otherwise you can say Calvin is scum for endorsing and pushing for the quick wagoning

actually yes, thats what I'm implying. ebi seems like a joke. calvin doesnt.

[votato]

i dont like the idea of mass claiming. i dont like the idea of anyone claiming during RVS. unless someone has a legit case I'm going to stick to my

fake

very real and serious claim of being God.

[votato]

i can confirm that that is indeed not the scum PT.

[votato]

"jjh927 and Co. Partytime!"

[votato]

Who wants to guess my animal?

Leopard seal?

Do you want to see my animal?

do you want to ally with me against our nemesis, cosmic penguin?

[votato]

Why aren't we lynching Birds and Boys? They

Scumclaimed

????

~Cosmic

isnt firebringer in that hydra? its scummier that it took him that long to scumclaim

[votato]

Is it vo-tay-do or vo-tah-do?

yes

[votato]

hey heres an idea: why dont we wagon someone else? that votato guy really comes off as town to me.

[votato]

The game has

Died

. This means the current wagon on votato is a scum one, and the scum are hoping we grow distracted and naturally move to other wagons.

I recommend a counterwagon to give scum the opportunity to

Hop

onto the opposing wagon, so that we can find votato's buddies.

~Cosmic

ive recently heard people say the literal opposite: "the game just died. that means this is a town wagon, and scum are satisfied with the direction. if we change the wagon to scum itll come back to life as scum suddenly have to come save their teammates. thats how we'll catch them."
me and my 0 completions have nothing to go on here, but before i claimed God im pretty sure i claimed scum, so I could go either way tbh.

no, this doesnt contradict my previous post at all.

[votato]

VOTE: votato

~Cosmic

UNVOTE:

we get a claim and immediately unvote? lynch this now. since im confirmed scum and conspire is voting me, conspire must be town. so VOTE: bingle

also, funny that youre one of the two people i point out way back here and now here we are and you're saying my rvs wagon is scum. hmmmm......
but i'll stand by bingle being the one we should push. since you're my scumbuddy i dont want you lynched.

[votato]

because i read the thread

[votato]

because i read the thread

me too.
This whole thing reads as one big rvs. People talking about wagons, people voting and creating wagons. People trying to out alts.
I actually wanted out when I saw this player list because they play a lot differently and I have no clue how to scum hunt with the nonsense I see in here.

lucky for you you rolled scum so now you get to stay and "hunt" which is pretty easy.

[votato]

VOTE: votato

~Cosmic

UNVOTE:

we get a claim and immediately unvote? lynch this now. since im confirmed scum and conspire is voting me, conspire must be town. so VOTE: bingle

also, funny that youre one of the two people i point out way back here and now here we are and you're saying my rvs wagon is scum. hmmmm......
but i'll stand by bingle being the one we should push. since you're my scumbuddy i dont want you lynched.

- your faithful unicorn savior

[votato]

If we think that votato is scummy, but we decide to lynch someone else, we might force votato to claim flavour domain (natural, unnatural, mystic) so TI can check it.

i dont see how that would help town. as scum i could be honest and then you'd start to believe me. am i missing something here? why not just have him check me, then you know for sure.

[votato]

mastina not engaging me is pretty meh.

Boybyrds not engaging me is pretty :sadpanda:.

Pretty solid T/T vibes from PP/Andy's Wife.

Creature spamcatchup mostly without prompting gives me warm tinglies.

Votato going after me feels really nice, but that's probably not a thing if they're not aware of me as a player. votato, do you know me?

i do not know you.

[votato]

Votato probscum.

-Calvin

Rvs vote

VOTE: votato

L-1, please claim

Calvin, why?

What is that dunn. No, I'm not gonna give a legit claim based on an rvs vote/wagon. If people state a case and say they're on the wagon for reasons then maybe. Ive made it clear from the beginning that i think a massclaim is a bad idea. That's not changing just because people want me to claim.

[votato]

I dont think anyones gonna state intent to hammer an rvs wagon... thats ridiculous. Im mot sure whos scum. Give it 20-30 more pages. When i get home ill give the thread a proper once-over. Ive stated a few places to look though

[votato]

rvs wagon

cuz its random validation stage? sorry.

case for why im town: gut.

[votato]

you're on the wagon.

[votato]

maybe calvin and hobbes? if they want the massclaim, they can lead it right?

dunnstral also seems bloodthirsty and wanting claims. I said earlier that i didn't like the way that vote came off.

but its still too early for me to take a firm stand on anyone. im getting a feel for things.

[votato]

fine. I'm a town night 1-3 combined janitor-doctor watcher.

[votato]

why not?

[votato]

Quick question: should other TPs CC votato?

What role would possibly cc his role

exactly. the reason a massclaim is bad is that town really gains quite little. Scum on the other hand get a lot of info about who to target.

UNVOTE:

does blatant always sound this way? I don't really know what to make of his posts, but i dont see any way they help town.

pedit: ready for day 2? day 1 has hardly started...

[votato]

blatant: to me, always being scummy doesnt really prove anything about you... giving intentionally bad reads does seem like something counter to your wincon as town though.

[votato]

VOTE: blatant scum

ok. if you cant/wont help, why keep you around?

[votato]

Quick question: should other TPs CC votato?

What role would possibly cc his role

exactly. the reason a massclaim is bad is that town really gains quite little. Scum on the other hand get a lot of info about who to target.

UNVOTE:

does blatant always sound this way? I don't really know what to make of his posts, but i dont see any way they help town.

pedit: ready for day 2? day 1 has hardly started...

Then I'll ask you the question I asked Farside, what do you make of Calvin's focus on mass claiming? Is it innocent fun, scum driven, or etc.?

Hmm... not sure. My instinct is to say that mass-claiming is scum-driven. That said, suggesting it is probably NAI, since a) i've seen someone suggest it in pretty much every game ive been in so far and b) i guess proposing it to gauge reactions is useful from a pro-town perspective. It might be scum driven since calvin actually seems intent on having people claim, rather than just proposing it for reactions. why don't we ask calvin for their motivations?

fine. I'm a town night 1-3 combined janitor-doctor watcher.

What does this

Mean

??

VOTE: blatant scum

ok. if you cant/wont help, why keep you around?

Justification here is

Dodgy

. Are you voting him because you think he's useless or because he's scum?

~Cosmic

uh not exactly sure. From what I gather on the wiki, the janitor would be a scum role. From that plus my role PM I guess my role has something to do with being anti-janitor? I'm not exactly sure how it would work. sorry. i think the watcher ability only activates if im successful, if that helps.

i think being useless is probably correlated with being scum. You all seem to know BS much better than I, and if hes a really good player, then theres probably a method somewhere in the apparent madness. I guess this sort of confusion is why I want to wait before jumping to any conclusions about anyone. ironically, this uncertainty makes me a bit useless, so i guess im confirmed scum.

[votato]

yeah... in my short tenure, I've learned that when i give firm early game reads i come off as scummy and have shit takes. I'll work on improving it. Farside can vouch.

[votato]

Opinion on fotahdo, Jinglebingle?

He looks like the kind of player who will eventually be readable without too much poking. Him not knowing that I'm me means his awkward poking at me could be a legitimate attempt to get me lynched though, which means I'm not really townreading that attempt any more. I'm assuming he's town for now.

I have been noticing a tendency to just not read the words he posts though.

do you mean i dont read what i post, or other people dont?

also, you'd townread my awkward jab at you if i knew who you were? townies who know you should lynch you? or you think because i dont know who you are scum!me thought youd make for an easy mislynch?

[votato]

yeah... in my short tenure, I've learned that when i give firm early game reads i come off as scummy and have shit takes. I'll work on improving it. Farside can vouch.

VOTE: Votato L2 since last VC was a bit ago

You didnt give a firm read on Calvin though.

It's less about giving a firm or confused answer, and more how it is done. Scum from my experience tends to over justify things to look like their posting has more merit to it. You often see it in day 1 read lists by them for example where most of it is null reads with one or two paragraphs.

In your response to Calvin you, in order,
- said that it in theory is scum driven
- suggesting it is NAI
- its town because it can be used as a reaction test
- calvin isnt using it as a reaction test
- Calvin's usage of it is scummy
- but he needs to be asked questions regarding it to make sure.

Uncommital, self undermining, and more importantly overtly winded wishy washy read on Calvin.

I guess I could tie in you didnt end up questing calvin after that post which would also make sense from a townie presepctive, but I jumped the gun I think too quickly by revealing it to use it.

So:

What do you make of Dunn's unvote on you and farsides vote?
Are you just confused about bingles logic or do you think he is stretching to whitenight you? If latter, would it be scum or town driven?

I dont think much of either the vote or the unvote. I will say i think the order of those votes in quick succession probably means they aren't both scum.

I'm starting to think i just can't win here. Every time i take a firm stance early game people scum read me. So here i tried to just keep and open mind, and people scum read me anyway. Yes, im wishy washy and fence sitty. My reads will solidify as the game goes on. Maybe that's scummy, but it is what it is. If i need to be the day 1 lynch here, i guess that's fine. But I'm very much low hanging fruit, and i feel like there's gotta be scum driving this wagon.

My role explains the pieces. I didn't really realize how much i didn't understand it until i had to explain it. It seems that if my target gets janitored, i heal and watch. If not, i do nothing.

Penguin, can i have like 12 hours away from the game sometimes to sleep and go outside?

Pedit: yeah i agree. Pp seems forced and overblown. As an admin shouldn't he be the one telling us to chill?

[votato]

I'm confirmable town too. Scum, tell me who you're gonna janitor tonight pls.

[votato]

Oh and I think taking someone's opinion is not something I have seen from you votato.

Taking someone's opinion?

[votato]

Votato, why did you never give us that readslist you promised when you were at L-2?
Hydra buddy quote this into our iso, ty

I meant before d1 ends.

[votato]

i've repeatedly said i think its a bit early to have solid reads on people. But that said, I don't think the people asking for my reads really care about the reads, and are using them to test me. Here are some thoughts anyway.

PP: posting has been a bit strange. Some of the reactions seem forced, and he seems too eager to put pressure on me/lynch me.
conspire: i think this is where the wagon came from, and while I definitely dont townread conspire the vote wasnt opportunistic, so even if scum, this isnt the scum I'm looking for.
farside: townread her. she seems a bit fence-sitty on the wagon, both defending and attacking me, but i think its her trying to keep an open mind and remain objective. Because of our history, i townread her for that, although i suppose it could just as easily be that she is pretending to keep an open mind as scum.
april: similar to farside, but without any personal history. She gets townpoints for taking the time to read and understand my posts rather than just assume everything questionable is scummy.
dunnstral: this is probably the scummiest. first post in thread: puts someone at L-1. Second post in thread: unvotes, because he isnt "feeling this lynch". I'd say this is a good option for a wagon.
BS: we've been over this previously. the lack of contribution yet wanting to push for claims seems not town-aligned, but other people who know him better seem not to think much of it.
mastina: null
holden: seems the most opportunistic. was a late-comer to the wagon, and suddenly became very aggressive. Not sure how to interpret that alignment-wise.
im sure im missing some people here, but i went back through quite a lot of pages looking for votes.

Am I the only one who doesnt think much of Dr. Easy Bake's catch-up?

[votato]

I don’t like this Birds/Chemist thing that’s happening.

why? whats off about it?

I realize people have asked me some questions. I'll do some rereading and answering later today or tomorrow.

[votato]

votato, could you paraphrase the role description in your PM? Does it explain the modifiers seperately, or together?

~Cosmic

Answer this when you can, votato!

~Cosmic

to what extent can i answer that actually

[votato]

votato, just to make sure.
Your role doesn't require your target to be also attacked in order to work, correct?

no im pretty sure they have to be janitored, which means they have to be killed.

[votato]

So, Votato,
If only you and a janitor visits person A (and janitor doesn't commit a killing action), your action will *not* have any effect. Correct?

sounds right.

[votato]

Spoiler: the extent of dunnstral's remotely content posts

Rvs vote

VOTE: votato

L-1, please claim

UNVOTE: Votato

Not really feeling this lynch. Also I think 830 is a post town makes more than scum do.

I like Cālvin and Hobbes

VOTE: Blatant Scum

^That vote is weirding me out

Why would town have janitor abilities?

no one else thinks that this ISO is worth wagoning? an "RVS vote" trying to get a claim, an unvote immediately following the claim because he suddenly "isnt feeling the lynch," then another vote without reason. 838 is a legit question i guess. then 1028 contradicts his unvote.

[votato]

Spoiler: the extent of dunnstral's remotely content posts

Rvs vote

VOTE: votato

L-1, please claim

UNVOTE: Votato

Not really feeling this lynch. Also I think 830 is a post town makes more than scum do.

I like Cālvin and Hobbes

VOTE: Blatant Scum

^That vote is weirding me out

Why would town have janitor abilities?

no one else thinks that this ISO is worth wagoning? an "RVS vote" trying to get a claim, an unvote immediately following the claim because he suddenly "isnt feeling the lynch," then another vote without reason. 838 is a legit question i guess. then 1028 contradicts his unvote.

I'll ask you again, what changed from your interpretation of Dunns unvote in your reads list since the BS vote came after that read list?

Why are you presenting Dunn as this hidden gem nobody has noticed when people like Farside has brought up them before?

the null read was based on me being not confident and looking at the posts in the context of the thread on that page. the scum read was me going back and looking over dunn's iso. maybe we should be listening to farside. no one is.

am i missing something? why is chemist scum?

[votato]

hi guys what did I miss?

-bitmap

Chemist's scum buddies are coming in out in force to protect him

Votato town
BS town
HoldenGolden town

-turducken

so youre saying the birds wagon is a scumwagon countering the pro-town chemist wagon? based on what?

[votato]

Conspire probablytown

-turducken

pedit:

Based on the fact that I said so

(I was being sarcastic with the scum buddies comment). I do think people are ignoring Chemist's play for ??? reasons

chemist has 0 content. you think thats AI?

[votato]

generally i agree. but its still pretty early day 1. dunnstral has far fewer posts, but is actually pretending to contribute by voting. that seems scummier to me. mastina and clover have also been largely inactive. lets excuse mastina for the moment because of internet issues, but why focus on chemist over dunnstral or clover? to me the other two are more in the category of active lurking, but havent done any meaningful gamesolving. i have an absolute null read on chemist for now. im not disagreeing with you, just asking you to persuade me. your hydra seems very confident that its chemist.

pedit: i havent played with chem before. thats why im asking. maybe the lurking and shitposting is a tell, but to me it seems nai without more content/context.

[votato]

You get to ask about them one at a time

ok, please explain them one at a time.

[votato]

why farside? i feel like theres actually content there, and i see it coming from a pro-town mindset. most of the reads i disagree with i just feel like there isnt much content, but that one stands out.

[votato]

is your read on dunnstral pretty much the same as mine?

[votato]

is your read on dunnstral pretty much the same as mine?

You'd have to remind me what yours is like, but I'd suspect probably. I don't think I have any unique insight on Dunnstral

no content, opportunistic voting, unvoting immediately after claim saying "i dont really feel the lynch". posts consist of hopping on wagons.

[votato]

sure. I didnt see it that way, but was also townreading her, so didnt look too closely at her. your narrative makes sense. she did flip-flop a bit. I read it more as her understanding of the game progressing. I think i was trying too hard to avoid tunneling her based on our history.

[votato]

reading over the ISO i see things your way. that tells me i should probably take the lesson but maybe not the specific instance so i dont get pocketed. ill keep an open mind on her for now.

[votato]

birds and boys and jjh

[votato]

Can we not lynch my 2 top townreads day 1, please?

sure. We will only lynch one of them

[votato]

Fuck, today's lunch meal pretty much killed my mood

i can make you feel better

[votato]

Creature scum

-Calvin

why is that?

[votato]

We literally can confirm the role, votato votes are scummy.

And if a role block comes in somewhere then it’s confirmed roleblock and we can lynch votato tomorrow.

No we realistically cannot given his addtional information about his role.

Town votato would be a prime target to get roleblocked. Scum votato can just claim to be rbed. Thus votato claiming to be roleblocked day 2 would be NAI.

If we do somehow coordinate a town KP, you, and votato (who all have to be town for it to work) all on the same person without scum interference, then we all should laugh before beating the scum team for being incompetent.

Tldr: the only way town!votato can be confirmed given what we know is if the scum team makes a mistake (or they dont have a roleblocker/way to stop it). As such the plan to confirm him is far too risky since scum!votato can lie about the rb and then the town KP needed to set it all off kills the target. It can be minimized I guess by choosing a scummy person to kill theoretically, but then that's also going down the rabbit hole of further role speculation.

why are you so sure scum has a roleblocker?

[votato]

why should we put weight in you saying you're mod confirmable without you actually being mod confirmed?

[votato]

also, it seems really strange to include a role that has the capacity to be mod-confirmed day 1, and has incentive do to it so easily that when theres even the slightest amount of pressure, with no wagon, the player claims.

[votato]

a) I'm not sure innocent child fits with penguin.
b) it still seems odd to out that early since it makes you an obvious target for night kills, and there was legitimately little pressure on you.

[votato]

a.) I....I'm not an innocent child. I was mocking your stating it's odd to have a mod confirmable role D1. I am very obviously a Reflexive Friendly Neighbor.
b.) Uh...that's the point point of my role. Scum have to choose between confirmed town or taking a shot at a more powerful role...

If I was just a Friendly Neighbor it would make sense not to out it and to target town reads at night...but I'm reflexive so it doesn't work if I don't get targeted.

Jesus.

i still dont see how a reflexive friendly neighbor fits penguin.
i also dont think thats the best use of your role. arent you more valuable if you claim later on and get used in lylo?
i could be totally off-base here. but could you cut the new guy some slack in terms of methodology and help me learn rather than be condescending?
i think this exchange is probably way past peak usefulness anyway. i hope you can see that maybe youre tunneling a bit. im sorry for doing the same to you.

[votato]

VOTE: dunnstral. i thought my vote was already there.

[votato]

at this point, PP is not getting lynched today, yeah? no point talking about it. if he gets confirmed, we can go from there. if not, we can go from there. lets talk about what we are actually gonna do?

[votato]

I have some stronger town reads. My top scum reads are PP (waiting for confirmation), dunn, and BS. Still a whole lot of people I'm having trouble figuring out. jjh and birds are my strongest townreads.

[votato]

Where did it come from?

My townreads. I'm not including myself because honestly half of this playerlist would doubt I was town if the mod confirmed it. Also, Penguin is half of this player list now.

what does that mean? are you implying you can also be confirmed town? are you implying that we shouldnt trust penguin even if penguin is confirmed?

[votato]

My SRs are weaker than my TRs so far. the main reason i SR BS is that his ISO reads like hyperactive lurking. There are a whole lot of posts, but little analysis and little in the way of reads or analysis. Mostly he has been focused on me all day, which is OK i suppose, except that he seems to generally town-read me and believes my roleclaim.

I have seen town players play very similar to Dunn's playstyle.
Votato is no longer confirmable. I think he is an "optimal mislynch".

Is that due to how the wagons and game stalled, or simply your read on votato?

I think Votato's claim is towny. Yes, I read Penguin's ISO. I called him "optimal mislynch" because:
1) I wanted to be quoted
2) People still scumread him and he is basically unconfirmable.

he might not stand by the optimal mislynch part, but he still thinks my claim is towny. if so, why hasnt he explored any other possible scum.

I would love if today's lynch were in {jjh927, mastina, Conspire, chemist1422, Calvin and Hobbes, PenguinPower, Dunnstral, Dr Easy Bake, Creature}.

he's ok with lynching half the lobby?

BS: who are your other scum reads? why havent you put any effort into engaging them or pressuring them?

[votato]

*pats unicorn*
Its okay. I feel pretty sure your scum based on a lot of your wishy washy responses. You are very lucky I'm not feeling doing my best not to tunnel you. But if that vote count turns to you, I will be there so fast.

may i ask where you just patted me?

[votato]

I feel like I should be one of Votato’s top town reads, so that does give me pause.

But regardless, in my head he’s likely a day 2 lynch

i do townread you, im just not yet sure if youre trying to buddy me

[votato]

buddies are gross

you love gross things

[votato]

BS: could you elaborate more on calvin & hobbes? i just read your iso and didnt see that much

[votato]

*pats unicorn*
Its okay. I feel pretty sure your scum based on a lot of your wishy washy responses. You are very lucky I'm not feeling doing my best not to tunnel you. But if that vote count turns to you, I will be there so fast.

may i ask where you just patted me?

On the horn.

thats very ok with me

[votato]

I have some stronger town reads. My top scum reads are PP (waiting for confirmation), dunn, and BS. Still a whole lot of people I'm having trouble figuring out. jjh and birds are my strongest townreads.

Oh yeah
UNVOTE: VOTE: Votato

You aren't allowed to not take me up on my offer to explain the PP read awhile ago just to pick it back up pages later and assimilate my reasoning on the slot as your own.

wait what? do you see the several posts i made explaining the PP read? you dont see very early in my iso the back and forth between myself and PP? i feel like this is pretty silly misrep.

*pats unicorn*
Its okay. I feel pretty sure your scum based on a lot of your wishy washy responses.

You are very lucky I'm not feeling doing my best not to tunnel you. But if that vote count turns to you, I will be there so fast.

Votato is this banter from Farside normal given your playing experience with them?

its limited experience, but yeah sure.

[votato]

also, it seems really strange to include a role that has the capacity to be mod-confirmed day 1, and has incentive do to it so easily that when theres even the slightest amount of pressure, with no wagon, the player claims.

I will concede that, rereading, this point with pingu is your own. Though my issue of me having to spark your motivation to consider a player you had what I assumed to be a scum lean without declaring a scum lean is still there.

i think if you read through my ISO you'll find more than just the one interaction with PP. it takes more than one interaction to convince someone to tunnel you this hard. I dunno, i guess i should have been more explicit? Im wary of pressuring people who are pressuring me, because in my experience it leads to counterproductive catfights. and im really not very catty. as it turns out though, i was right not to apply more pressure to PP. the pressure already applied led to a pretty serious tunnel. For a while i was really wary of saying anything since everything i said got scumread, and it seemed like the universal consensus was that im scum. I poked a couple of hornet's nests and lost my confidence. I think i have a slightly better feel for the game now, although I'm still struggling to read a lot of people, since people like bingle and creature seem to be more or less unreadable and there are a bunch of inactives. And then theres someone like HG who i keep going back and forth on.

the birds read is a metaread based on firebringer. i realize that the hydra has four heads, but about half the posts are his, and the rest seem to come from a similar place. they also seem to see the game the same way i do, for the most part.

moonlogic? probably.

[votato]

sure. I only read from post 100 in your ISO, so theres more stuff before that, but mostly i have the same vibes. if you need i can go back further tomorrow. essentially, i see you asking a lot of questions and probing, but i dont see you pushing or pressing people. questioning people is pro-town, but also easy to do as scum. Between the questions and fluff, there arent a whole lot of posts where we see what HG is thinking. You dont present a lot of opinions or info collected from the questions.

the few opinions you have expressed are largely about methodology/theory. I like the pressure you put on PP both because of how you did it and where you put it. But it quickly passed into negative marginal returns. When i pointed that out though, you backed off, even when PP didnt. So overall, that gives you at least some town points.

but then you have the occasional post that i really dont like:

Spoiler:

Vote birds with me

He did ban me from the scum PT

UNVOTE: VOTE: Birds and boys

I still need responses from Votato before hes removed from my scum list

we are way past RVS here, and a wagon is forming. ill ignore the scumclaim both because youre talking to firebringer and because i scumclaim, including a couple times in this game iirc. this post seems so out of the blue. i didnt see any progression towards voting birds, and then there it is. maybe that comes if i read back further?

Okay, I'm back!
@DEB: "Failed Mason claim"? Did you not think it was obviously fake? What was the fail?

-Calvin

Do you still think we are scum?

---

Could everyone give me their top 1-2 townreads?

-turducken

HoldenGolden

Farside is decently high still on my list. Most of the people who get close to the top posts something that pings me which is probably a sign that I need to loosen up from the gameplan I entered with.

Assuming how jj answers he can be promoted to townhood

here you deflect the question, not actually providing townreads. One townread that you dont commit to or provide reasons for, and then you say that you suspect everyone and cant come up with a townread.

[votato]

votato, you strongly townread Birds, who you think you are town and are defending you, but don't townread April as highly, because you're afraid she may be buddying you. What's different about them?

~Cosmic

my reads arent based on whether the person townreads me. birds have made no effort to actively defend me, it just seems like they generally townread me. april has been actively defending me, so theres more potential for buddying. or, ironically, maybe the reverse is true. april is in my townpile, but i think i have a better read on birds based on firebringer. The question asked for two top townreads. april isnt in my top two.

[votato]

Both conspire and C&H are lurking, and every time conspire appears it seems to be to try and get my wagon going again. because its lingered so long, and because the people on it seem to have tunneled so hard, i feel like theres gotta be at least one, probably two scum pushing my wagon, so in {BS, conspire, PP, (C&H)}.

[votato]

i dont see how anyone could be townreading BS. I also dont see how half this game can be this inactive. Apparently there is no way to get momentum for a dunnstral wagon though, so VOTE: farside. This game has too many pages to be this stagnant in terms of wagons. im confused.

[votato]

Also, Farside’s obv scum based on that Birds vote line.

“If Birds could get more votes” or whatever.

Had Farside voted Birds, Birds WOULD be the leading wagon.

Lynch the hell out of this

Yeah, I thought that line was pretty fence sitty from her. I'm not sure I want her to be the day 1 lynch though. I was townreading her based on her earlier play.

---

The more I think about votato's role the more confused I get. If he is a Janitor Doctor Watcher... that uh confuses me. If he was just a watcher, he would know who janitored/killed the person. If he was a doctor, that person would never die and the janitor would never go into effect.

votato, can you paraphrase as closely as you can your role?

- turducken

- turducken

I'm not a janitor. I doctor janitored targets. So if someone were to be killed and janitored, and I visit them, I heal them so they dont flip, and I watch them. My role does two things if two conditions are true. so if target is killed and janitored, target is healed and watched. My action nullifies the janitor action since the target no longer dies. does that help?

[votato]

i dont see how anyone could be townreading BS. I also dont see how half this game can be this inactive. Apparently there is no way to get momentum for a dunnstral wagon though, so VOTE: farside. This game has too many pages to be this stagnant in terms of wagons. im confused.

Votato, why not join BS if you don't see how people are town reading him? That wagon had more votes than farside when you made this vote. Why vote farside instead?

-Hobbes

cuz april asked and I'm just waking up from a nap. maybe once I'm awake I'll realize ive made a terrible mistake. But I'm pretty sure I had my vote on BS for a while with no momentum building earlier this game.

[votato]

It feels to me like you've been wagon hopping to whoever is attracting general thread attention at the moment (BS, then Dunnstral, then farside). Do you agree with that assessment? Which of the three do you think is most likely to flip scum?

-Hobbes

to some extent youre right. I'm OK with pretty much anything that gets us some game progression. Nothing has happened in this game in what - 30 pages? I do think BS is probably more likely to flip scum, but farside is a new wagon, so maybe theres potential for something to happen there.

C&H why do you think these wagons keep stalling? Why is the game so dead?

[votato]

"Ok, so if your target is only targeted by a janitor action (lel) but not killed, your ability would just fail entirely?" yes
"If your target was only targeted by a kill, but not a janitored scum kill, your action would fail entirely?" i dont see why it would have to come from scum if theres a town janitor

[votato]

"Ok, so if your target is only targeted by a janitor action (lel) but not killed, your ability would just fail entirely?" yes
"If your target was only targeted by a kill, but not a janitored scum kill, your action would fail entirely?" i dont see why it would have to come from scum if theres a town janitor

ok fair point, but if the target is killed, but not by anything that janitors the body, the action would still fail, that's what you're saying?

yeah

[votato]

@April, who are you shooting tonight?
Please, don't say anything from my townpile.

how is it that you can be so confident in your townpile and yet have no scumreads that you think are worth pushing?

[votato]

You know, I don't really remember why I was townreading Holden, but after rereading the PP interaction I think he could be scum

VOTE: HoldenGolden

could you elaborate?

[votato]

Yeah I 180'd on my read on BnB

Y'all need me to gamesolve rn?

-Calvin

why is that?

[votato]

hobbes called you auro earlier

[votato]

Seems like I wasn't paying attention to the game - I felt you had no impactful activity and your heads weren't posting in the way I saw in Doubles, and that informed my read. Reading you ISO again shows me I've done a bad job at evaluating things without reading the game properly. Apologies.

Shiiit, slipped, I guess I'm not a stealth hydra anymore

-Calvin

this doesnt explain why you changed your read. it doesnt suggest anything in BB's content that you reevaluated. it just says that you backtracked bigtime.

[votato]

would anyone like to wagon C&H?

[votato]

What have I missed?

you got lynched. no talking.

[votato]

VOTE: Calvin and Hobbes

april, i think your solve is missing a member.

[votato]

lets do it! VOTE: dunnstral

[votato]

1. Barney
2. godzilla
3. Rex from toy story
4. yoshi
5. bingle

[votato]

yes. hes the confirmed dinosaur list collector. that sounds blatantly anti-town though.

[votato]

sooo... deadline is in 12 hours

[votato]

i don't think we should lynch votato fwiw

[votato]

VOTE: dr easy bake

[votato]

I hope that PP's vote count is accurate. I am going to vote DEB, and I hope that I don't accidentally hammer him before he has a chance to claim!
VOTE: DEB

L-1! DON'T VOTE WITHOUT GIVING INTENT!

That seems unnecessary and performative. If Deb were around he would have posted by now. I get bad vibes

[votato]

From that too. And from the flip flop

[votato]

from most things you do tbh. Especially everything you just did

[votato]

VOTE: dunnstral

[votato]

you missed

[votato]

VOTE: votato

[votato]

you're welcome for carrying so hard, scumbuddies. couldn't have done it without me.

gg

[votato]

Thanks to everyone who played and especially to the moderators