Doubles Mafia Day 2/ Day 2

[Vecna]

Anyways, RC has played games with me on his own scumteam. He knows my game is nowhere near strong enough to fake all this shit.

[Vecna]

Hurray, GE catchup

[Vecna]

time for some mtg arena

[Vecna]

better make sure to ask RC for permission before placing a vote

[Vecna]

LR is the only lynch I am even slightly considering over Vecna btw

Bit of an odd statement to make when he's finally about to do a catchup.

Also nice to see that im worth lynching over if I disagree with your read on LR, but now he's suddenly a fine lynch.

Progression ftw

[Vecna]

Interesting how you were townreading me and TH while we were stopping a wagon from forming on you.

[Vecna]

RC, could you please give me your reads on cakez?

Can you give me your own reads on Cakez, and after that, on everyone?

TH- I keep flip-flopping on this slot...some things they say are town and some are scummy as I recently pointed out

WANH- oka is spamming, FB is his town silly self. I dont think they would do this if they were scum. It draws a lot of attention to that slot

GIF- I thought Bernie was town, haven't played with her so I dont know her meta. If Gif gets in here and posts, I should be able to solidify this read

RC, gobbles- town

Jjh- seems town to me but what do I know

Mastina- another slot I've flip-flopped on. Atm I think she's town because I dont think she loses it like that if she's scum

Farside/amrun- not enough on this slot. Farside should be readable with enough content

Suichi- I've thought he is town. Some of you know his meta better...

NSG - not sure what to think here. I know her and Mastina are not both scum so when I think Mastina is scum then NSG is town and vice versa

Bbmolla - town

Lie Ren- seems town to me

Wonderwall I still think is scum. Ali normally posts lot more when they are town. They have no passion for this game and in their case I think it is AI

Vecna- town and a very likely mislynch. I think because of the jormun slot that didn't post much it would be easy thing for scum to get behind

Elmo- leaning scum because of PoE and their lack of posting

NM- fuck I dont know. They are so good as scum but FWIW I did not think DDL was scum when they left. Truly lost on this one

Cakez- I just think hes scum. I mean, nothing personal. I love the player but too many red flags for me in their ISO

What changed from here Baezu?

Walk me through it please

[Vecna]

The fact that Vecna doesn't want to push mastina is another thing linking them also
I think TH asked me about that earlier

I mightve been pocketed by Mastina, but I indeed think she's more likely town here.

At the same time, I wouldnt put it past her scum ability to come up with the shit that would hit home with me and rouse my suspicions on RC. She said all the right things.

You think that entire dialogue/monologue of her trying to influence my shit was scum theater?

[Vecna]

Same way I wouldnt put it past her to try do the ballsy thing and lolhammer JJH and try to get away with it.

But ive also been having a rather hard time to stay up to date with actual votecounts this game. Not a very high votecount:pagecount ratio in this game (like when I was suddenly at L1, didnt have a clue)

[Vecna]

At any rate, I think its up to us to make our minds up on a lynch, so pushing in christmas atm is whatever

[Vecna]

My request to lynch Bazeu was aimed at the general thread, not RC FYI

Why are you still hung up on this?

Id really like an answer to my question at the pagetop.

In some detail so I can see your thoughtprocess.

[Vecna]

My request to lynch Bazeu was aimed at the general thread, not RC FYI

Why are you still hung up on this?

???
I made a post about it last page and Vecna acted like I was asking RC's permission to vote

Yeah it was a bit of a dick thing to do, im a bit prickly atm.

I want my candy but I cannot have it

[Vecna]

RC, could you please give me your reads on cakez?

Can you give me your own reads on Cakez, and after that, on everyone?

TH- I keep flip-flopping on this slot...some things they say are town and some are scummy as I recently pointed out

WANH- oka is spamming, FB is his town silly self. I dont think they would do this if they were scum. It draws a lot of attention to that slot

GIF- I thought Bernie was town, haven't played with her so I dont know her meta. If Gif gets in here and posts, I should be able to solidify this read

RC, gobbles- town

Jjh- seems town to me but what do I know

Mastina- another slot I've flip-flopped on. Atm I think she's town because I dont think she loses it like that if she's scum

Farside/amrun- not enough on this slot. Farside should be readable with enough content

Suichi- I've thought he is town. Some of you know his meta better...

NSG - not sure what to think here. I know her and Mastina are not both scum so when I think Mastina is scum then NSG is town and vice versa

Bbmolla - town

Lie Ren- seems town to me

Wonderwall I still think is scum. Ali normally posts lot more when they are town. They have no passion for this game and in their case I think it is AI

Vecna- town and a very likely mislynch. I think because of the jormun slot that didn't post much it would be easy thing for scum to get behind

Elmo- leaning scum because of PoE and their lack of posting

NM- fuck I dont know. They are so good as scum but FWIW I did not think DDL was scum when they left. Truly lost on this one

Cakez- I just think hes scum. I mean, nothing personal. I love the player but too many red flags for me in their ISO

What changed from here Baezu?

Walk me through it please

You started posting. At first I thought you were busy or catching up. But once you started posting, seeing how passive aggressive you're being and picking a fight with RC, etc. You're not being very townie imo

And the other 2? Mastina and TH?

[Vecna]

shut up RC

[Vecna]

He's just pissed he'll have to use a NK on me instead

[Vecna]

RC, if youre actually town your reads are fucking shite, so everyone has the right to override you lol

[Vecna]

What happened to gamma's catchup?

Was that 1 post seriously all were gonna get?

[Vecna]

Cool, can we lynch him now that he's openly scumclaiming?

[Vecna]

What would you have wanted us to do with that info?

My PR does not allow it, so whose to say that this neighbourhood confirms that targetting is also a thing?

[Vecna]

this is an easy situation
we now have confscum between the two

What type of shitpost is this?

[Vecna]

When me and NSG are both dead kill TH and Lie Ren and if that doesn't win Halloween congrats on being a town so bad that two consecutive paragons couldn't prevent you from losing a town sided setup

You know you couldve also chosen not to fight me for once right?

[Vecna]

it's not rocket science lol vecna

The fact you act so clueless that you pretend to not even grasp that RC loves to claim fake guilties - fake guilties that are mechanically impossible to have even gotten a result, and that you wanna run with it really makes me want to insta lynch you

[Vecna]

VOTE: SirCakez

Ok im no longer blocking this, enough pings is enough

[Vecna]

Cool, can we lynch him now that he's openly scumclaiming?

if you're aware RC fakes guilties
how is this an open scumclaim

Its not obviously, im just fucking fuming with this constant barrage of bullshit by a person with an overinflated ego that wants to ruin everyone else's fun constantly just to feel better about himself.

The fact he's not even playing the game in a way that takes anyone else's into consideration, refuses to explain anything, and has the only answer of "lol im so much better than you, youre unworthy" yet continues this fucking deathtunnel -that is completely wrong-.......yeah annoys me and results in my replies not being completely calculated all the time.

That was not what you were doing though. And that was not something that impacted your judgement there.

You just saw another reason to try and run with it and mislynch me.

im a fucking town PR. RC already fucked up by making me claim it with his bullshit. But it just continues.

[Vecna]

UNVOTE: SirCakez

fml, why did I even sub into a game with this playerlist

[Vecna]

Yeah sorry for my shit, this crap really has a tendency to make me overreact and bring out the worst

[Vecna]

After those last outbursts, im ashamed to say I probably agree.

Which makes finding the actual scum a real damn challenge, or trivially easy

[Vecna]

Yeah sorry for my shit, this crap really has a tendency to make me overreact and bring out the worst

It’s ok

Spoiler: spoiler

you’re still dying

You mean by NK or by lynch?

[Vecna]

mod wont answer if crossgame nk's are a thing :/

[Vecna]

Youre both wrong.

And once again, a motion detector can be verified easily enough, unless youre somehow scared im gonna take the right guess on every single person I visit. And scum will kill it regardless.

Lynching me, if youre still incapable of reading me correctly, is just doing scums work for them.

[Vecna]

Yeah sorry for my shit, this crap really has a tendency to make me overreact and bring out the worst

It’s ok

Spoiler: spoiler

you’re still dying

You mean by NK or by lynch?

Lynch. I’m not really feeling the motion detector claim in light of RC’s claim and if you didn’t think he was town before his replacement, he’s definitely town now

Also, his claim was a lie dude

[Vecna]

If on the other hand you have a functioning BULLSHIT RADAR, can you all please join me in lynching this obvscum?

I'd prefer Sushi. Nancy doesn't want me to hardpush RC and thinks his play is NAI (specifically, tunneling obvtown) for him. I had a conversation about Bayesian inference but still
She has however authorized me to defend you :3

-Stuxnet

RC had a post that townpinged me and there was of course TM, where he faked a guilty on bleeding obvtown Duckling.

Yeah sorry for my shit, this crap really has a tendency to make me overreact and bring out the worst

It’s ok

Spoiler: spoiler

you’re still dying

You mean by NK or by lynch?

Lynch. I’m not really feeling the motion detector claim in light of RC’s claim and if you didn’t think he was town before his replacement, he’s definitely town now

Also, his claim was a lie dude

How do you know?

Because im town.

And in case youre doubting that, riddle me this: has your night phase already ended for him to have received a result?

[Vecna]

TH, no offence but I dont think its usefull if everyone in your hydra is going to repeat and comment on the same posts

[Vecna]

In before both Titus and Mathblade replace in

[Vecna]

If mathblade replaces into the RC slot im getting lynched D1 100% lol

[Vecna]

What this game really needs is pine on a novelty account. That emperor julius ceasar shit was so glorious

[Vecna]

This is how he's played for years. Noone that has played with him for more than 2 games takes it serious when he says he has a guilty.

the day he actually rolls a cop will be hilarious

[Vecna]

Splendid

[Vecna]

I’m not really feeling the motion detector claim in light of RC’s claim and if you didn’t think he was town before his replacement, he’s definitely town now

Why does RC getting force replaced make him definitely town..?

@Kylo Ren: Vecna's "can we lynch him" post was directed towards RC.

@Baezu: Can you point me to instances from your games with RC where you scumread people for "picking fights" with RC? Nancy tells me that the last time she saw you in a game with RC you were very suspicious of him, and throughout this game it feels like you're trying to pocket him.

If Baezu can't produce instances of doing so, then I think she's a great wagon.

-Stuxnet

while browing through my old games I actually encountered one where Baezu was hydraing with RC.

Made for me to go, huh, after he acted so surprised by all the shenanigans.

[Vecna]

I kind of just want to sheep RC knowing his slot is most likely town.

How many votes are on Vecna?

-bitmap

Is it really too much to ask to make up your own mind?

If you really cannot see that his read wasnt even genuine but just based on frustration then I dno what to tell you.

Heck in his last posts he was even calling out different people as scum

[Vecna]

also, if I survive our night you can lynch me tomorrow and you'll at least have potential extra information from my motion detect

[Vecna]

hmm maybe i should sheep my predecessor's reads

this slot is now 100% town

-bitmap

Also, I really do not see how this is AI

[Vecna]

Shuichi, if you were to accept the premise of me being town, then who is scum?

Am I being fooled by TH in that situation or what do you feel is going on here?

[Vecna]

Can you explain the read on Baezu? That slot is by far the most volatile for me.

Im trying to find any potential partnerships here, like its probably the totally wrong way of going about it, but this gamestate just makes no sense

[Vecna]

Anyone else playing Ikoria?

[Vecna]

I figured out Almost50 from the Not_Mafia interactions

Can you explain this for me?

Also really interested in this......

[Vecna]

vecna

olive branch?

come with me to paradise and lynch lie ren ty

Im very close to it but want to give the slot a wee little bit more time to catch up to be certain. That acceptable to you? This also allows the rest of the replacements to settle in and do stuff as well. Id really like us to get to a stable gamestate with a bit more of a solve. Not a lot of time mind you.

As for my own reasoning to add a few more points to the discussion:

The preceding catchup posts from Lie ren:

-Question people over attacking me for my slot salvaging comment.

-Wants to see SirCakez reaction to me calling out the buzzwords.

-Then sees I was scumreading the slot a long time back.

Suddenly likes the Sircakez reasoning for scumreading me. 50% of that reasoning was my entrance. The other half was his comment about "long catchup walls are usually scummy". Two arguments here. GE has played with me a lot. He knows I always do long catchup walls when I replace in (unless the game really is astronomically long, but that happened like once). Second argument, Ive seen Gamma Emerald do long catchup walls as well. Heck he's doing them himself to some extent.

So what where you agreeing with in the SirCakez logic? And did you like his "I use buzzwords to reply faster?" Because that shows very little actual engagement with what you were apparently interested in before.

[Vecna]

ur so lazy gamma

and when your lazy you are scum, shame

No I really am not. I have had effortful scum games and effortless town games. Don’t make me have to pull up examples of this for what might be this first time in over a year.

Yeah, lets not go there. I can confirm -this- to be true at least. Catch him in the genuineness of what he does post (which to be fair, aint great, but im not 100% there yet to call it scum).

[Vecna]

ok but tbh why does rc care about nsg's read on you nancy

ur nancy and its rc, his reads on you should be like a divining rod

He claimed himself he had a lot of faith in those reads from NSG.

...yeah, I also didnt believe shit from that comment and it felt like he just wanted me to insult NSG to get more people to turn against me.

[Vecna]

Just the fact Vecna has disappeared since RC, his main pusher, was replaced out is suspicious

Lmao, wtf? I was the only one posting for a long time just like 10h before this post.

I live in a different timezone. Youre really gonna be surprised im "disappearing" while its between midnight and 8am where I live?

fucking hell youre desperate to lynch me

[Vecna]

Ok, im going to make my post describing in full what I think is happening this game. Youre all gonna call it Titus-levels of moonlogic, but stick with me please. I have some reasoning behind it, and some past "evidence" and experience that might back it up.


The premise of this episode of conspiracy theories is this:

Spoiler:

Nope, sorry, youre gonna have to actually read this giant shitpost sounding thing

A smart scumteam would realize that to win this game, you need to crush one side and dominate the other side. If you setup in such a way that one side of your scumteam pushes the other side to lynch one of your partners, itll make you look good and like the town leaders. This will set you up to win that side by controlling town actions. You make the designated bus target HARD PUSH the two scum members on the side that are meant to dominate. Youre not going to dominate both sides as scum, and you want to refrain from having a scum member in danger of a lynch on both sides. So you divide and conquer. Its a simple logical and strategic conclusion. After giving this some thought, Id predict any of our potential scum suspects could come up with this plan and would try to execute it after some internal discussion. Disclaimer: this theory is fully dependent on scum day chat.

So lets put the pieces in place. What have we had happen so far this game? Mastina has been playing really scummy this game. Like, truely, impressively scummy. Her initial shit was just wtf levels of scummy. It would almost fit her normal town-game how bad her reads were. The only thing she kept parroting was * SQUAAAAWK RC IS SCUM SQUAAAAWK *. But then, after a while, her posts suddenly started making sense to me. Like, she started talking to me with a purpose, a goal, and some clear-mindedness that is probably easy to miss if it is not directed at you. All the shit felt sensible to me. I could see all the things she pointed out make sense. Her claims that RC was manipulative early game were not true. He wasnt back then. Theres a reason everyone townreads him. He was pretty towny. But when I started talking about my Ren lie and Shuichi scumread he suddenly made a turn and started focussing a shitload of attention on me. Mastina started addressing me after this as well with her weird directed communication. Shortly after this she lol-hammered JJH. Completely uncharacterismatic as well, even for her as scum.

Im sure by now you can see the signals on the wall. Mastina has been designated as the fall guy. To make the other side look good. She saw she could even get a free mislynch on JJH, so obviously she took it, because it would ensure town would mislynch her the next day guaranteed - which was exactly the plan. Well, maybe she wasnt even on board with it, but RC has a way of making these plans even with unwilling volunteers as teammates. Regardless, the plan needed to be sold. RC normally isnt so aggresive and constantly hostile unless you really push him. We all witnessed the drama between Mastina and RC. They even went too far because they probably have drama in their scumchat going on, emotions got high. The mastina communication towards me had two intentions. Both to make RC and the teammate look good, and to make me look bad after she would be lynched and flip scum.

I present evidence part 1: viewtopic.php?f=56&t=76395
Cliff notes of this game: RC and Mathblade, both scum, bus eachother from the get go. This game was toxic on another level as well. Constant insults between them, even though they were teammates. Mathblade did not want to get bussed, but tough luck.

This is how players like Mastina and RC play as scum. They look at the setup, formulate a plan to victory, and take the steps needed to get there. They know how their actions will influence people. He said so himself several times this game.

Mastina claimed everyone on halloween was obv-town iirc. He just pointed to the two scum in RC and Shuichi (need to go back and read if this is actually true).

RC was laid back towards everyone, except Mastina. The intended patsy. Who needed to be destroyed in order for him to look good. Shuichi is also scumreading Mastina. I didnt see any devellopment there, but thats ok. THe scumread is obvious, after all. Mastina is obv-scum to pretty much everyone except people that were already suspicious towards shuichi and RC. Those two were targetted specifically, even though Mastina at the time did not know it would resonate with TH as well. Surprise, surprise, it worked and me and TH townread her for her posts. The plan probably wouldve worked. Mastina would get lynched, RC would be obv-town to everyone, and me and TH would be lynched.

The laidback attitude changed when people started interfearing with his plan. Both me and TH got suspicious of Shuichi and started pushing there. At the time it was two people, and Ren lui was also including in my pool of suspects. Along with Sircakez. Suddenly TH needed to get lynched (this mightve started a bit earlier). Suddenly I needed to get lynched. This seemed easy enough, since plenty of town were still suspicious of me. That is when the push on me started. He didnt state clearly that he scumread me. But he kept gently pushing people to vote me.

And then the force replace happened. That is the biggest flaw in this "wacky theory" really. Shuichi reported Mastina and RC (amongst others probably, but still). Maybe Scumchat also was toxic and she just had enough? Maybe the strategy wasnt fun. Maybe it was pushed way too far and the game was indeed made unfun. Maybe im a confbiasing idiot seeing flying saucers and planets colliding.

This ends todays episode of fanfic with Vecna. I mightve just solved the game. I mightve just made you all laugh out loud and decide it really is time to lynch me now. But goddamn, do all the pieces fit quite alright in a meh type of way.

[Vecna]

Also, this missing night kill should give us pause.

Crosskilling is not stated to be impossible in the setup

The mod refuses to answer questions regarding whether scum can kill cross faction.

What if: Scum has the ability to NO KILL to receive a crosskill as a reward?

Would open up a lot of new scum strategies, so I think I could totally see Jingle adding something along those lines as option.

Which means scum would only need two mislynches in one faction

[Vecna]

(meaning RC would only need to dodge one explanation of why he survived the night, which is not that hard to do if he's majorly fighting people in thread)

[Vecna]

Scum would need some pretty high powered shit to counter shit like doc and motion detectors in a small game like this.

The split game is already a major gimmick here. Dont think the setup would need a lot of "additional PR shit" to manage properly added on top to make for an interesting setup.

Also, my role pm gives me the impression that my role is one of the few things to count on as town to help us out.

[Vecna]

Another alternative to consider: What if the scum members from the other side couldnt enter a NK?

No kill due to absence something worth to consider? We know Mastina's slot wasnt around. Not_mafia has been away for a long time. Elmo and a bunch of others have been very absent (although I think I saw elmo online yesterday)

[Vecna]

Hmm actually, Mastina was around for quite some time after she hammered as well.

[Vecna]

Lynching you would also make the game more readable, because then people would stop saying "lets lynch wall for lurking".

I think those posts add up to roughly the same number

[Vecna]

see ^

[Vecna]

would I be insane if I said Vecna's moonlogic theory sort of makes sense?
I don't know if it's right but it's theoretically possible
I find it hard to believe mastina and RC are buddies though
P-edit: I want to see Shuichi respond to the case first
And GIF is getting replaced

So lets talk about this Cakez. Has that post changed your read on me?

[Vecna]

Doubt that was alisae

[Vecna]

Christmas honestly feels like a waste of effort atm to try and read

Theres 2 slots that are like, town. Then 1 slot thats interesting because its mastina.

The rest is just completely unreadable lurkers. BBmolla was mildly towny early game but I know that those posts are not really AI for the slot, and I feel it couldve come from scum just the same.

Lynching there atm is just a damn black hole, and we shouldnt do it. Im even afraid of lynching Mastina after that auspicious no kill because.....scary

[Vecna]

Yeah, right, GIF is also a slot in this game.

The reasons I had for townreading bernadette feel so long ago and so washed out by now

[Vecna]

Shuichi if not TH who will you lynch?

I could lynch Lie Ren. Maybe WANH. Gifslot could use a replacement.

Oh

OH

Talk to me about WANH

[Vecna]

So, how do you even play mafia on this website then wonderwall?

Every game is like that.

Sifting through the bullshit is at the core of this game, no?

Like, if you'd complain about the toxicity id sort of get it, but people playing the game?

[Vecna]

Also, its not like trying to sort christmas is a daunting task

(but weird thing to say after I just stated its worthless to try sort it atm true).

Like, if you ignore all of halloweens posts and increase the volume of christmas a bit so that side of the game can have meaningful content....thatd be great

[Vecna]

also if you guys want me to engage I literally just posted a scumlist for my game so if you want to talk why not tell me what you think of that?

Can you provide summaries for reasoning on each of those?

-Stuxnet

gobble is just town. I kind of paranoided about him being obvtown in the game we just finished together here but I think he's very good at obvtowning when he's town

NSG I liked when she was talking to me from 479 to 492 but the stronger reason is that I really, really feel her in 1428

this game is astoundingly unreadable. i find that true for both the literary sense and the mafia sense – i both find my eyes glazing over scrolling through some posts and i find myself reading them and not really coming away with anything. this is a pretty unfortunate situation both for me and for the game: i don't really have much to say, and that's pretty bad when i haven't really said anything at all the entire game (i would be scumreading me – it's really not an unreasonable conclusion). it's not really a solution to just not say anything for reasons that i'm certain go without saying, but also forcing myself to say something also isn't much of a solution (that's why i'm doing this, actually – feels like the best of a bad situation). it's bad for the game because it feels like we're just spinning our wheels and not really going anywhere—no rise and fall of wagons, no push and push back, almost just conversation. i've certainly contributed to that problem but i'm not really blaming anyone in the first place

this in particular is very much like how I've been feeling, outside influences on my mood notwithstanding.

I don't really see molla as being that townie, or I'm not sure what the benchmark is for him being scum vs town, but I think gobble and NSG are both TRing him there so I'm willing to sheep there. the main thing that was making me think molla might be scum was that when I thought jjh was scum he seemed to be defending him quite consistently and trying to steer away. given jjh!town that's no longer something to give me pause

mastina I'm not sure on. I wouldn't fight the lynch but there is some stuff that makes me think she's town -- mostly I don't think (or I hope) she wouldn't make posts about RC being an abuser/using the language of an abuser or whatever if she wasn't acting in good faith. like if you know you're acting in bad faith then given that this is fundamentally a game I think that's really shitty to say. but if she really thought it then I think it's not. the jjh hammer was p bad but mastina does tend to read through games from where she last left off so I can see her missing jjh at L-1. jjh knows this too I think and I think that's why he didn't hard scum read mastina for hammering him even if he was slightly incredulous. I also think the two are quite good at reading each other and his initial reaction to her was that she's town

I've already explained far side in my previous post

NM and elmo are just PoE because I don't have reasons to think they're town

Yeah like, ive been saying it repeatedly.

But wonderwall is town guys

[Vecna]

And im pretty much at a point where everyone in halloween is some measure of town to me, except the RC slot.

[Vecna]

And even there I dont have a strong scumread, but at least a narrative that fits and is plausible :/

[Vecna]

I keep forgetting about that slot. My past self thought it was town. Ill trust my instincts, but admit that most other townreads have done more this game that I should be able to read into better.

I still think the bernadette shit was pretty genuine, but maybe its just a metastyle that does that shit regardless of allignment

[Vecna]

VOTE: not_mafia

Ok that slot can get really dead really quickly if it starts doing that shit

[Vecna]

Can we not lose focus please

If the cross factional kill is a thing, lynching town in christmas puts us instantly in lylo/lylo-1 in both games (depending on lynch/nk rotation after, but its not pretty)

Its upto halloween to lynch something

Not saying mastina was town by any stretch. But lets alternate this shit

[Vecna]

I'm waiting on Lie to finish catching up then I'll give intent

And youre really expecting that to happen before a new wagon appears?

[Vecna]

I really feel like just lolhammering here

I dont expect any lynch that we actually can achieve here to flip scum

[Vecna]

I mean, GE is playing a bunch of other games and those are getting his attention.

The GE I know usually is quite invested in his large themes as town

[Vecna]

You didn't reply me either before.

Did you confirm with Jingle if you can crosstarget or not?

I cannot (had already stated this 3 times, but youre a replacement ofcourse)

[Vecna]

Would you listen to me about Cakez if GE flips town Vecna?

I also have no idea how you can be so certain that GE will flip town, or that one flip influences the other, or that they cannot simply be scum together

[Vecna]

Vecna why are you suddenly less engaged with this game? Now that you're here.

It feels like everything has pretty much been said

We need flips, but im not gonna get the flip that I actually want.

Site etiquette is preventing me from just flipping another whatever-level of alternative.

I dno. Ive gotten to the stage where im second guessing everything and my logic goes in a whirlwind circle

[Vecna]

Maybe what I really need is a night phase so I can just die

[Vecna]

VOTE: Eve

[Vecna]

Bet y'all thought I just hammered as soon as u saw the vote tag from the corner of your eye upon refresh

[Vecna]

Hey Oka, how do you feel about Shuichi scumreading you, but never questioning anything you do but focussing all her attention on TH?

[Vecna]

Imo the order of good wagons:

Eve

Shuichi

-------

Lie ren/Cakez




----

Bernadette/Not helping/Baezu

[Vecna]

id like vecna to double down on motion detector claim and how it doens't interact with other side of the playerlist

-oka

fuck off

( in case not obvious)

[Vecna]

Also, Churros, my pushes have spiralled the game into such a fun place that half the playerlist got replaced

So kinda like, stop talking

[Vecna]

im not gonna repeat myself a 5th time Oka, you can read my iso

[Vecna]

I am here, I got taken away last night but I should have enough time to make up for the catch up I wanted to do then.

Interesting timing to say the least

[Vecna]

I really dont see how anyone can even think that I could motion detect the other side while the games are not in simultaneous night.

[Vecna]

I really dont see how anyone can even think that I could motion detect the other side while the games are not in simultaneous night.

motion detector doesn't make sense wtf ?

it implies multiple interactive roles which skews the balance towards town in a semi white flag setup

You can debate the setup tomorrow after you see my flip

[Vecna]

Also, Churros, my pushes have spiralled the game into such a fun place that half the playerlist got replaced

So kinda like, stop talking

Your push on RC seemed obnoxious always throwing him jabs as a player in my opinion.

I'm trying to be friendly to Cakez, I even gave him a headpat!

I'll even post flowery gifs to whoever I'll vote in my game next.

He brings that out in people. Some people might be fine with overinflated ego's constantly talking down on everyone, I am not one of those people

[Vecna]

lol, I nearly insta hammered that shit

[Vecna]

put your vote back, were hammering this shit

That is the most obvious lie ever

[Vecna]

TH, vote Lie Ren

[Vecna]

Trust me, the way my role pm is formulated (both stating my role is VERY POWERFULL) and in the fact he could invest on the other side while I cannot motion detect there to see his visits.....

Its a bullshit claim and a scumclaim.

[Vecna]

Also, "im just casually gonna copclaim and then pretend nothing happened and do some casual catch-up"

bullshit

[Vecna]

lmao let eve claim we can potentially create a PoE scenario in game 2

what?

No. There is no point in the rest claiming and having scum map this shit out even better

[Vecna]

dude, that was an obvious fakeclaim and you know it

[Vecna]

TH, you claimed to trust me yes?

Put your vote on Lie Ren

edit: I want the fucking hammer

[Vecna]

No cakez, your "intent to hammer dependant catchup" only for him to show up moments later is what is scummy

[Vecna]

based on my role I know this is a fake claim. No way a real cop and a real motion detector exist. Especially not if one invests both sides while the other does not.

It makes no sense whatsoever.

Neither does him just vanishing and not talking about his claim whatsoever.

this is not how you act as town if youre forced to claim lol

[Vecna]

TH, ill bop this shit.

If this flips town and I survive the night, you lynch me tomorrow

[Vecna]

okay fine here's another way of thinking about it

can you see lie ren be paired with anyone except for TH? if so who

It seems a lot more likely that it was anyone that was around here just now and that was hesitant to vote him.

[Vecna]

it's not really bop when you're basically counterclaiming

is there a chance this whole setup is a giant troll and the scum are all ninja godfathers

Well he knows im town so he should not be so hesitant here

[Vecna]

guys, town in this scenario do not act calm and start doing a catchup.

Theyre indignant as fuck, they ask for some time to prove themselves, they try to talk it out live. They dont just go randomly read some pages while theyre at L-1 and about to be shitcanned.

This is some scum act trying to look busybody and town

[Vecna]

Well he knows im town so he should not be so hesitant here

I am still hesitant, sorry.
Why is it important that I hammer though? You don't find the numbers otherwise?

-Stuxnet

Were 2 short atm. Cakez is pulling the "omg vecna is scum here act"

[Vecna]

vecna who do you see paired with lie ren for reals

Its cakez

[Vecna]

Because I do not even want to entertain the idea of RC being right while I was wrong

and TH is town

[Vecna]

TH? vote please

time to end this

[Vecna]

Well, one of you two is gonna get the credit for placing your vote here so I can hammer

[Vecna]

Btw just fyi.

The only scenario that Lie ren is town here, is if:

-the setup is super fucking weird
AND
-SirCakez, TH, WANH are all town as well

In any other situation, the scum in the three would have voted for me to insta hammer and to mislynch me tomorrow.

Conclusion: this is the scum we've been looking for

[Vecna]

vecna if you wanted hammer you could've hammered btw

I had like 30s and I had the post written, but I decided to not insta hammer

[Vecna]

which was a mistake

[Vecna]

I'm a cop. I can check a player

each night phase of my game in either game

. I have no idea how this was meant to ever be balanced but it's the fact of the matter.

Now if you'll excuse me I'd like to get back to my catching up.

The bolded part gave me pause. It insinuates the same weird way my role pm formulates it.

Then I realized that scum always get fakeclaimes on this website with the same type of structure

[Vecna]

not the either game part obviously, but the each night in your game you can do your action in game X

[Vecna]

Same here. Then RC suddenly added Lie Ren to his poe just before getting replaced. So weird

[Vecna]

VOTE: Lie Ren

Guess ill have to let you guys hammer when you wise up. Going to watch some tv but ill be checking in

[Vecna]

the funny thing is; vecna claims motion detector, loads of people vall him a liar.

the scummy slot on L1 claims a way more unbelievable role that is totally something scum fakeclaim all the time, and people somehow hesitate.

hammer this shit already. worst case scenario you lynch me as scum tomorrow.

[Vecna]

the longer this takes, the higher the odds some other fool unvotes, someone gets doubts, some other shit happens....and he gets away

[Vecna]

good

[Vecna]

guess my timento die is here now. 48h of shitposting while i await my bullit

[Vecna]

awesome

AWESOME

Now.... lynch CHURROS

[Vecna]

do it before i die please

[Vecna]

Vecna, don't.

[Vecna]

its simple churros. If TH is scum, hes svum with you. if youre town well lynch cakez after.

it solves a bunch of things.

the only thing itbdoesnt solve is if all scum were indeed lurkers

[Vecna]

everyone always tried to pocket me. im too easy to pocket

[Vecna]

haha i knew wed get us some titus at some point

[Vecna]

Hey bitmap

We did a thing

hurray

[Vecna]

Alternatively, farside lightninglynch might also save the mod from doing all these replacements

[Vecna]

Hey bitmap

We did a thing

hurray

Hopefully you'll be around tomorrow to tell us what you did!

I was talking about lynching scum obviously.

And im not gonna survive the night, unless we have a doctor type of role I guess

Unlikely, but with a roleblocker on scum....who knows?

[Vecna]

Titus replaces GiF.

NNNNOOOOOOO!!

I don't know whether I hoping titus is town or scum. Either way it will be a fight.

I have changed a bit. Patience old Farside. It's new drunk Titus.

Just 1 post and I already have a townping on titus

[Vecna]

god I hope there's a vig in this game

you guys are on crack
if I was scum here I could have easily not hammered and gotten away with it
no one else was going to do it

I plan to yell at a lot of people post game here

this stuff

maybe

Yeah, there is no way I wouldnt have convinced TH or Not helping to hammer after a while.

I might be extremely heavily pocketed, but I still do not see any way WHATSOEVER that TH is scum here

[Vecna]

Just read from 3784 in TH's iso onward, paying special attention to their Lie Ren/Gamma read/interactions about Lie Ren/Gamma with myself and WANH. You will see the transition go from pretty strong town read > realizes their is suspicion on the slot and themselves > scumreading/suspecting the slot

I went through similar progression cycles on the slot. I didnt realize we had caught scum until the claim came.

[Vecna]

nancy i can assure you with my journalistic integrity, if you answer my questions about RC being the woat i will tell you who this is

To be fair?

I was scumreading Lie ren for a VERY long time. And RC was actively attacking me and trying to lynch me over that read and calling me all kinds of terrible.

[Vecna]

One good thing about this game is that if TH is town I can forever hound Auro with the meta from this game

We are and anyone even remotely familiar with my meta should realize this. I don’t make multiple confident tr az scum, in any game. I dare anyone to prove otherwise.

Also, I really think any scum slot is not gonna talk about META this much when they have three heads and any number of meta arguments are likely to be used against them.

You cannot dodge old habits in 800 posts done by 3 heads.

This is a towntell 9/10

[Vecna]

yeah but those final reads from RC sounded like his pure reads

i.e. not his personal, i want you to shut up and im oging to do it the best way through lynching you, reads

He never asked anyone to push on Lie ren

[Vecna]

i suppose i am not truly being a purist about following RC and only lynching TH with no room for others but personally i do like lynching sircakez too so call me a heretic

You have literally caused me to never ever vote TH this game. If you keep this up, I'll hammer you if the opportunity ever arises. RC is a noise bot. I quit playing with him for this reason.

I guarantee you that either the RC/Eve slot or WANH is dying in that game

lol

[Vecna]

I don't think WANH or Baezu are scum though.

My townbloc 100 pages ago:
{TH, WANH, Vecna, Baezu}
It's still right

-Stuxnet

For sure

[Vecna]

okay so nancy raging at this pool probably means that she townreads sircakez too then? because i know if i were town and was in the pair with my scumread i'd be like yeah im down

auro i just want to say, i love you and im sorry if your town but nancy is scummy lololol

Tell me this

If TH is scum, and im yelling at you and cakez to hammer as well, why does he not insta hammer there? He has no reason to go "ill discuss with Nancy". He knows his partner would go down. He would hammer that shit without a second thought after I go "trust me please".

Town would have second thoughts as well because theyre not sure about what is going to happen. Town would recognize their other 2 scumreads are on the wagon and have doubts.

[Vecna]

I've this weird feeling about an impulse to town read Cakez for no reason.

literally no reason. nothing.

I'm feeling lethargic by the last posts. It has killed my motivation for this.

hahaha, does this ever come from scum here?

nice

[Vecna]

That was a pivotal moment. Pressure could have been moved to Vecna and I probably would have gone with it and then LR wagon would have been done for.
I don't see it.

lol, like I ever wouldve lost a 1v1 against gamma there

[Vecna]

Do you think a bus was set up? The way the lynch went down makes me feel no

If you, me and GIF are all town that *has* to be the case, I'm considering the possibility of it. Perhaps unlikely, yeah, but still. As I said, need to think seriously about it all :v

Claiming *cop* was ridiculous I feel.

-Stuxnet

Here's a thought:

How about that cop is the scum fakeclaim and both RC and Lie Ren used it? (and Lie ren didnt read the game so is unaware of it)

They both used the same internal role pm logic for PR's in how they worded their claim. They both got that part right.

[Vecna]

WAMH I read the situation totally differently. But that moment was chaotic so I could be super wrong.
P-edit: No after LR claimed Cop. Shuichi specifically posted that he wasn't changing his vote.

I think this is the first time Gamma has fake claimed but I could be wrong on that. That’s interesting. Did you not believe the claim? @Sushi? How did you know it was fake?

Check the order of things. Did ss claim she wasnt changing before or after I went ham that it was a scumclaim? I think my rampage made it quite clear that the slot was not going to get away with it.

[Vecna]

Oh actually Vecna probably dies in Halloween. He can catch the killer. Rip

shhhhh

[Vecna]

Who thinks it was a bus and who is actively trying to push the narrative that it was a bus? I havent been readin really closely

I think its quite possible. And it wasnt Baezu or the hydra bussing

[Vecna]

It sucks you live on complete opposite end of world from me. I’m going to bed. But...

I’m confused about the comments about your own game. You make it seem like we shouldn’t aim for scum in your game when we probably have better information to go off with a scum flip? I don’t understand the one shot comment either.

Earlier you said that JJh and Elmo didn’t have enough content for you to read them. How come Elmo and Nm have enough content for you to say one of them contains scum?

Why do you think NSG could be scum now?
What do you think of Mastina’s slot?
I think I want to talk the most about Baezu actually. When you get a read there let me know.

The part about my game is easy. Either Cakez is scum, or scum is somewhere else. Town has two mislynches to spare and then needs a correct lynch. If Cakez is town, there will be three NKs (although I'm pretty sure they'll be WANH and Vecna, leaving Sushi and Eve (or maybe Baezu) with GIF). That's the endgame I am solving currently by considering the possibility of bussing, and treating everyone else as town. Does that make sense?

I am PoE-ing them. Additionally, Elmo's lurking, Ellitell, asking to get replaced are all mildly scum indicative.

Idk, NSG is <3 and responds to all of my questions and engages but I dunno, feels like she isn't -really- present? She implied she's working on some Elli meta technique though, I wonder when we will see the result of that. However, this is but paranoia and I acknowledge that as such.

I like Churros! I think he is still town as well. But, yes, the interaction where he egged on Cakez is interesting. If it's staged then I'll honestly be impressed. If Cakez is town and Churros egged him on predicting he'd get hesitant, then also I'll be impressed. Otherwise Churros just town? His predecessor hard townread Cakez btw

I put Baezu in my townbloc, but since I think NK just removes some slots in my game I don't think I should focus too much here?

I've sorta just dumped my thoughts and they might be a bit uncollected or haphazard. If you give me specific things to think about I'll do that and get back later.

-Stuxnet

Once again, you really do not come up with that type of solve-logic as scum

TH is locktown here. Ill order two random people pizza after the game if im wrong

This is my one dying wish. Do not fucking lynch TH.

[Vecna]

I apologize if I’m seeming toxic but if you read my posts, other than Gamma, it’s beyond freaking obvious this isn’t my scum meta and Oka is not being correct if he is claiming otherwise,

Just chill. Geez Nancy.

Breath in, breath out.

No need for all this rage. The majority of people needs to progress on your slot with mod confirmed info, and there's no way they're all scum.

They might be wrong town? Sure, but everyone has the right to be wrong. Your initial TR on Lie was wrong even.

One of the things it pisses me off the most in your posts is that you're entitled to everyone needing to particularly be right about your slot when you're always correct about other people.

He even mischaracterized my “it’s freakinf Mastina comment” about it being about her reads, when it was actually about her scummy noms. I have never dissed her reads, so that is literally the second time Oka has mischaracterized my posts/meta in this game.

t's beyond obnoxious, frankly.

Him sr me based on my incorrect Gamma read, makes 0 sense after tm, so I’m not tr that slot anymore because I don’t believe that town!Oka sr me based on being wrong - not after tm. I don’t think that’s an honest read. So, I’m not tr that slot anymore.

I

Oka is mischaracterizing my meta and after tm - where he 100% ought to know better, I think I have every goddamned right to be pissed at him for that, So, not sorry. And if I’m going to be mislynched based on people mischaracterizing my meta and insisting that they’re right when facts prove otherwise, I really don’t care if you think that’s obnoxious. I apologize when I’m wrong and I have 0 reason to apologize for that. Oka 100% deserves it.

VOTE: WANH

Let’s 1v1 Oka.

Dont go there. Dont let them piss you off.

Our initial solve was correct

[Vecna]

Trojan how can I convince you to put a cute anime girl as avi.

That's really what I want to focus now tbh.

If she does, can we talk about an SS lynch or Eve lynch? I'd settle for Cakez but I think that's OMGUS.

Titus is -REALLY- appeasing to our reads though TH.

Think this might be scum PT influenced subin knowledge?

[Vecna]

also if trojan horse wants to 1v1 me im down

lol

We offered eachother the olive branch and it resulted in scum getting lynched.

Now im asking you to leave TH alone so we can win this.

[Vecna]

churros is scum

someone in you/sircakez/trojan is scum

i don't need to figure out who the last one is if any of that is right at all

I also believe this version of events

There are two possible situations here that still hold true

1: Mastina made a plan to pocket me and scum is still sticking to it. Titus is copying the battle plan from scum PT and that is why he is so eerily tunneling down on what me and TH have been tunneling on without even reading

2: My initial solve is true and remaining scum is either Eve or SS

[Vecna]

I might be extremely heavily pocketed, but I still do not see any way WHATSOEVER that TH is scum here

what does it feel like to be so deep in a persons pocket u can't even see the light outside of it?

to even know there is something outside that pocket.

is it like platos allegory of the cave?

~fire

Its more like his view of a city. Ive made an idealistic world of purity up in here, and TH is my guard

[Vecna]

I've this weird feeling about an impulse to town read Cakez for no reason.

literally no reason. nothing.

I'm feeling lethargic by the last posts. It has killed my motivation for this.

hahaha, does this ever come from scum here?

nice

I thought this was the towniest post in his ISO but does it override his ISO?

A gif?

Ive learned the hard way that gif's dont lie.

When I was talking much earlier about bringing in the charm, I was talking about lion king gif's.

Ive seen town at L1 save their life by just posting that simba gif with pleeeeaaaase. The slot never got another vote all game and was obvtown after that.

[Vecna]

How about that cop is the scum fakeclaim and both RC and Lie Ren used it? (and Lie ren didnt read the game so is unaware of it)

They both used the same internal role pm logic for PR's in how they worded their claim. They both got that part right.

Can you pull up the quotes re: internal role PM logic if possible?
It's hard to imagine both scum getting the same fakeclaim and the fakeclaim being cop, that also feels kinda whack lol.

-Stuxnet

Scum usually get fakeclaims posted to their PT for all to see

[Vecna]

You talk as if the game revolves around you when it doesn't

This is true, but Mastina knows that if I start a fight with RC, the game goes toxic, people lose focus, mislynches happen due to emotion.

Its a powerful weapon and she has tried to abuse it before.

She knows how to use my weaknesses against me very well as scum

[Vecna]

You talk as if the game revolves around you when it doesn't

Besides, go through your predecessors iso and look how she directed like a block of 20 wallposts directly at me to try and convince me RC was scum

[Vecna]

Ill be dead soon anyway. And im still squarely 50/50 on your Churros.

You scare me a little though.

This has been one of the most powerful and influential replace-ins ive ever seen.

(not counting my own amazing replace entrances ofcourse that get half the game to scumread me)

[Vecna]

And both you and Titus are eerily accurate in pointing at the games weaknesses and being able to point to where a next lynch is likely to happen, despite the volume of the game

[Vecna]

I think I also endorse a farside lynch

[Vecna]

No response to my flattery at all churros?

[Vecna]

churros with warm chocolate sauce or just plain sugar would certainly be something I would enjoy eating right now

[Vecna]

Regardless, TH is town and everyone should feel bad for scumreading them

[Vecna]

Its not bad, Churros is very good at this regardless of alignment

[Vecna]

Elmo was promising to participate day2 and then replaced out instead

[Vecna]

I think farside is scum here for ~reasons~

[Vecna]

Still catching up but Titus is all over the place here. I feel pretty confident she's the other scum in Halloween.

This is just an outright fiction.

I have Halloween narrowed down to you, Eve, or SS (my favorite). That's been pretty clear.

I've been pretty clear on TH being town, same with WANH and Churros.

How is that all over the place?

How did you reach these conclusions without reading anything upon replace in, that is the real question

[Vecna]

No you dont. not me.

Im adorable and uno-it

[Vecna]

Its true TH, we all know I IZ GLORIZ LEADR THIS GAME

[Vecna]

Hope you guys do realize if there is crosskilling you potentially just lost us the game there

[Vecna]

so like, GJ with that lollerbating around

[Vecna]

You cannot make that statement at all without knowing the rest of the setup so stop justifying this crap

[Vecna]

BBmolla, get back in here and unvote please

[Vecna]

Actually, it would be pretty cool if you guys fucked it up and then my main man TH had 24 hours to save the day without me and lynch the last scum in halloween

[Vecna]

We should not lynch in that case or something Vecna?

What you're trying to imply here?

We already are patiently waiting for one lynch in each game to avoid losing to shuffling

Now we should not lynch at all because it could be even more scum sided?

If it's a bad setup we're going home and calling it bad setup. Double NK without us having the information that it's possible is heavily scum sided.

What is this shuffling? Scum are tied to a game, they cannot "shuffle"

[Vecna]

Scum also had a cross faction RB

They did not NK N1 in christmas afawk

Were not risking that shit

[Vecna]

I remember that back then he was getting very slightly more solvy in some games and only coming around to hammer was more up to his scum meta

like he would have vote progression at least and what not (hardly explain reads, just naked votes sometimes quoting)

that hammer try was too fast to probably be coincidental, he probably has been reading/following the game a bit or got told something in scum PT. The fact he has no vote progression is probably scum indicative gun to my head.

That said reading NM is not easy. I can be wrong. He can be town and tried to hammer for the hell of it anyway since it was a lurker slot he probably don't feel either way about.

He replaced into a 150 page game. Why are you trying to read anything into anything?

He probably read a grand total of 100 posts or something like that

[Vecna]

basically keep nm alive for two days and there is an almost guaranteed chance that if he is town, he will have caught the entire scumteam

about 80% of the time

Not my experience at all

[Vecna]

11h untill I die

I really feel uneasy leaving you all behind. Still not very confident this game will have a positive outcome

[Vecna]

shit, auro clearly is very capable of fooling me good.

uh-oh

[Vecna]

The Town of

Trojan Horses
We are not helping
Titus
Eve
gobbledygook
jjh
churros
farside22
northsidegal
Wonderwalll
Vecna
Nero Cain
Baezu
SirCakez

Is victorious!

woooo, its over. My reads were awesome (for once)

[Vecna]

highfive auro, sorry for the last minute suspicion because of that other game ending.

wp!

[Vecna]

Out of curiosity, what did people think about the mechanics?

Was the mutual game thread idea fun?
Was the open thread during night fun?
I see the no deadline consensus seems to be antifun.

I think the no deadline thing is just because there were too many replacements, no?

I liked it, but havent checked into the hidden mechanics yet.

[Vecna]

both lie ren and cephrir are town, your scumreads are garbage

Also, just quoting this for the lulz