Jigsaw's Revenge - Game Over

[Almost50]

[Almost50]

oof, this is an a'ight playerlist . . .

VOTE: a50

Has not confirmed but has been online? Guys

Hmmmm. Frankly, I don't know why scum would check on my online status. This goes right into the town!bin

[Almost50]

So, what was the holdup, Almost50? Command & Control has been eagerly awaiting your arrival.

I was busy talking to my scum pals in the scum thread. Sorry.

[Almost50]

VOTE: GuiltyLion

I know essentially nothing about the flavor, hopefully that's not too much of an impediment.

This probably means you missed Hectic's crumb.

[Almost50]

Going radio silent now. Will be back when you guys finish your greetings.

Important: NO HANDSHAKING.

[Almost50]

@Mod: Why 12 to lynch? Am I secretly loved??

[Almost50]

I am also the worst

Seriously? You are the duck???

[Almost50]

It self destructs in response.

Hey, you "theme slipped". This is a SAW themed game, not a Mission Impossible themed game.

[Almost50]

Btw A50 apparently you made an enemy in TBONTB?

Well, without going into details on an ongoing game, could you please explain who TBONTB is? The only way my brain interpreted that was "to be or not to be" which doesn't make any sense to me.

[Almost50]

If people weren't in a hood, they would be more interested in Drixx who claimed he was in one.

TBH, I almost commented on it, and now that you mention another hood I am even more intrigued because I am not in either (nor am I in any other hood/PT). But you know what the problem is? The problem is I have stayed "hidden" while I was in a hood at least 3 times before (once as scum and twice as town), so I don't think anyone would believe me here (and especially the one pictured below, as he was in two of these 3 games).



In short, I hereby claim that I am in no hoods/PTs. Take it as you will.

[Almost50]

I dont think we should be making assumptions about hoods right now. But I really do agree that we should be posting in our hoods so that everyone else knows they are there.

I disagree. If hood membership is outed to hood members it should be outed to the whole roster. Assuming there is at least one mafia member in each hood the mafia will know the composition of the hoods as soon as players post in their hoods.

[Almost50]

Throwing out my 2 cents already, if your theory is right (which it isn't but okay) then the hoods would probably be used to allow a traitor to talk to their teammates otherwise if they kill the other person in said hood.

And now I now I know why I come across as scummy all the time. Coming up with such "out if the box" ideas really does make others feel uncomfortable to say the least.

@Elsa: Why do you assume there is a traitor to begin with?

[Almost50]

.

Yeah. Let's not talk about that.

[Almost50]

Lets say you are in the PT flavored gorillas, and some one claims orangutan and they haven't posted in your PT, then they are scum. This way scum are punished for not posting in there PT.

Why GORILLAS?? Why not birds or reptiles or canines? WHY GORILLAS??

[Almost50]

Past page 10 and neither A50 or Elsa have fakeclaimed. What's the world coming to?

My character does not identify any particular individual. I won't claim my role, but suffice it to say it's dope. I love it.

[Almost50]

Scumreads: Guilty Lion, Vecna, Xtoxm, BBmolla

Huh? How come Xtoxm & BBmolla are in scumreads when they have claimed no to be in any hoods? I mean, wouldn't they get caught if there is a Traffic Analyst/PT Cop?

[Almost50]

If you're a townie, you see Drixx open up about not knowing the player list in his PT on page 1, and you're not in any hood yourself and not curious at all about his post to comment on it...I find that suspicious.

Scumreads: Guilty Lion, Vecna, Xtoxm, BBmolla

3 have claimed not to be in a hood: A50, BBmolla, Xtoxm,

Guilty Lion

.

For sure there's scum outside the PTs. Probably 1 scum in each PT and 2 outside of it if there are 3 PTs. Statistically, our best bet is to lynch inside [A50, BBmolla, Xtoxm, Guilty Lion] today.

I guess I missed GL's claim he was in no hoods. However, my point still stands. Scum do have a PT of the own, thus can communicate privately. A Traffic analyst would get the liar(s) is any. Nit lynching anyone who claims not to be in a PT today.

@GL: Do you confirm not being in any hoods? (Obviously I am too lazy to go back and check)

[Almost50]

Seven players and the mod have posted so far.

Are you kidding me? One third of the game is in your hood?

[Almost50]

A50 is a little suspicious, mostly for a lack of playfulness that was also lacking in a game we were scum together.

I am a bit bored IRL (Lack of football games? Everyday feels exactly the same as any other??). There are also some players in this game that probably wouldn't enjoy me wreaking havoc all around (and some who would make use of it if they rolled scum too).

Q: Do you

really

want me to post more music/memes in a 21 players game?

[Almost50]

Scum share a PT and if they have fakeclaims, they've shared those too. So it feels odd to assume there's a scum with a fakeclaim that isn't aware of a hood with another fakeclaim - the only scenario where that would catch scum is if there's an all-town hood with flavor that scum don't know about.

It would also be kinda just bad game design from a mod perspective IMO. "Here's a fakeclaim, but town will catch you mechanically if you claim it".

One of you, me and Danny is misunderstanding the argument (I didn't comments on it before though). I think the idea was something like a hood of cartoon characters (say) and then someone claims to be Roger Rabbit and they have never posted in that hood. THAT is suspicious. Why would it matter if they also know there is another hood of Super Heros? If they claim that instead they still haven't posted in that hood as well.

[Almost50]

In short. I guess the idea was to push for everyone in a hood to announce their presence in said hood ASAP

[Almost50]

It's a good first step. Let's pile on the votes guys, we don't have all day.

Except we do.

[Almost50]

A50 and Morning Tweet, it's about time you choose a main wagon.

If I don't like a wagon I sure am not joining it. I also have no scumreads as of yet (well, I do have one but it's conditional and I have to wait for more info)

[Almost50]

Whoa this puts you directly at odds with me.

I will need to take you off my no lynch list Day 1 if you go down this path.

Are you sure?

Yes. I guess I will double down on what I deem to be the right play here.

[Almost50]

and yes A50 I confirm I am a lone soldier, not in any hoods.

By my count 4 players have claimed NO HOOD, and the leaders collectively report a total of 14 players IN HOODS. 3 players are either hiding within the hoods or are declining to claim they're not in any.

Those 3 are within momo/EJ/Gamma/VD/Vecna/Hectic/dave/farside. I have removed Pine, Dany & BM as they have declared they were in a hood one way or another. I also dropped George because I liked GL's reasoning for town!him.

So, my preliminary lynch pool as of now is in momo/EJ/Gamma/VD/Vecna/Hectic/dave/farside (but that doesn't factor in how I gut read any of these slots)

[Almost50]

Who would you lynch between A50, dave and GL?

OK, so dave is off my list now.

[Almost50]

If your bored you can do a psychoanalysis on me

Unfortunately I am not a forensic pathologists, as the only way I can be

sure

of your alignment is when you die and your role PM is flipped.

[Almost50]

2) If scum have fake claims, in all odds they will know that there is a Cartoon Characters hood. Why would one of them then claim Roger Rabbit if they are not in that hood? Why not use one of their other fake claims from the pool of 5 that they have?

The idea is to get them to

post in the hood if they are in it

. If they are not in it then their claim would probably be different (definition of a

safe

fake claim).

As for why assume fake claim are readily available to scum, it's because if flavour is indicative of alignment this

has to be the case

. If alignments are randomly assigned though then there is no common hood flavour to begin with. Dany was talking under the assumption flavour was

related to alignments

.

[Almost50]

I think it'd be kinda scummy to say this and yet not claim if you're not in any of the hoods, do you agree? Based on that I think farside is probably in a hood.

Good catch. momo/EJ/Gamma/VD/Vecna/Blake remain in the pool (I hope they all brought their swimming suits)

[Almost50]

5 have claimed no PT, you're missing pisskop.

OK, so 2 within momo/EJ/Gamma/VD/Vecna/Blake.

@Vecna: Since you are here, are you in a hood? Hust a yes or no will suffice. Thank you.
@Gamma/Elsa: you too since you're both kind of on and off all the time. Just a declaration that you are indeed in a hood or are not is all I ask.

[Almost50]

5 have claimed no PT, you're missing pisskop.

OK, so 2 within momo/EJ/Gamma/VD/Vecna/Blake.

@Vecna: Since you are here, are you in a hood? Hust a yes or no will suffice. Thank you.
@Gamma/Elsa: you too since you're both kind of on and off all the time. Just a declaration that you are indeed in a hood or are not is all I ask.

Why is this important to you?

Because everybody has already had enough time to post in their hoods if they were in any. Getting those who had not posted to explicitly admit they were avoiding their hoods (unlikely, because they'd have to explain why they had not announced themselves in their hoods) or to explicitly deny having access to hoods (which then gives the Traffic Analyst/PT Cop the info to verify the claim) is good.

I am NOT asking people to claim

which

hood they are in, if any. I also find it pretty unsettling that you don't see what I'm doing already, and coupled with you trying to forcefully hijack the Town Leader position I can;t say that I still TR you as strong as I did when you first posted.

[Almost50]

A50 how do you feel about Vecna now that he claimed not to be in a PT?

I don't

feel

. I

deduce

. Vecna is now off the lynch pool for D1.

[Almost50]

@EJ: OK. Let me rephrase my question then. HYPOTHETICALLY, if you were a member of a hood, you would have already posted in it. Correct? Just a yes or no would do. You may or may not be in one, but IF you were then they already know you're in there. Happy?

[Almost50]

@a50 Vault and Pine haven't even posted yet. You're in my lynch list because you're acting antitown.

Try ISOing them. You won't even have to. You will find their names on the list though, which proves they each have posted at least once.

[Almost50]

VOTE: Elsa Jay

Your ISO says you are a Traitor. That's ALL I got from it. You also said 7 was a lucky number and voted Drixx (who now says the hood is of 7 members) in the same post.

As I said, I will only be confident in your alignment when you flip, so excuse me while I go campaigning for your lynch today.

[Almost50]

They haven't posted any content, meaning they might not even have had time to post in a PT or catch up.

Are you pulling my leg? Pine said "the mod told me I had to post in the main thread". What more obvious hint that he is in a hood do you want?

[Almost50]

Point taken, that still leaves Vault.

What about him? He is still in my PoE unrtil he decides to show up and answer my question.

[Almost50]

momo/VD/Hectic/Blake remain in my PoE

I would also like to FoS A50 for discrepancies on his list. He started with

momo/EJ/Gamma/VD/Vecna/Hectic/dave/farside

Note: No Blake on that list

It was then pointed out that farside is likely in a hood an he updated the list to

momo/EJ/Gamma/VD/Vecna/Blake

Which does have Blake but is missing Hectic on it

I would like him to explain this or I'm tunneling him until he is dead.

[Almost50]

These are the people who have not said whether they are in a hood or not, but may not have posted in a hood if they're in it.

I would like to rephrase my question directed at all 4 of them: They can instead state that IF they were in a hood they had already made it known that they are in it to the hood members. That doesn't even confirm them being in a hood for certain, but ensures they have posted IF they were in one.

[Almost50]

Just want to make a potential Traffic Analyst's life easier and their results more conclusive (since obviously they would target those who claim not to be in hoods to verify their claims)

[Almost50]

Oh, and @dave: You are actually on the list. I just removed your name because ABR made me (by using reverse psychology)

So, feel free to sign the hypothetical plea if you will.

[Almost50]

a50, why are we removing people in hoods from the poe?

Mate, you misunderstand the PoE. It's one of "unclaimed" status. They need to claim whether they are or are not in a hood. That's all I want to know. They are suspicious until they had claimed this (or confirmed the alternative hypothetical statement to be true). I am not saying we should lynch/not lynch based on who is/isn't in a hood.

[Almost50]

Why so many votes for me? I'm literally going out of my way to try and not be suspicious this time.

Are you related to Bambi?

The one time I challenged Almost by being townie, and I triggered him from my form of townieness. More anti-town then my fake claims? Jeez.

Bambi Jay has been killed! They were a...

Evil Magical Disguise Lords of the Boonski’i

Welcome,

Bambi Jay

, you are

Viola

,

Odd-Night Follower Even-Night Voyeur

.

Disguise, I see thou art a wickedness

ii;ii Twelfth Night

Your group private thread is here.

Abilities:

• You are an

Odd-Night Follower

. On any Odd-night, you may target someone to learn what type of actions a player performed, but not who that player targeted.
• You are an

Even-Night Voyeur

. On any Even-night, you may target someone to learn what type of actions were performed on a player, but not who targeted them.

Win condition:

You win when all of the Bard’s Battalion have died, or nothing can prevent this from happening.

Game thread is here. Confirm by replying to this PM with your role name.

[Almost50]

You know ur's time to hit the hay when you glance 2 pages and then can't remember who posted, let alone what they said.

[Almost50]

It's funny nor one person -other than EJ himself- commented on my referencing him saying almost the same thing in another game where he was scum. I get that scum don't want to deal with that one way or another (if he is scum it's best if they let it die, and if he is town then either town pushes through the mislynch or scum use it later to mislynch me). Now why did no TOWN player talk about that?

[Almost50]

@dave: Read the spoiler. First quote is from this game. Second is from TBONTB (I think you were in it too?). Same response to me pushing him as scum. Let me know what you think.

Spoiler:

Why so many votes for me? I'm literally going out of my way to try and not be suspicious this time.

Are you related to Bambi?

The one time I challenged Almost by being townie, and I triggered him from my form of townieness. More anti-town then my fake claims? Jeez.

Bambi Jay has been killed! They were a...

Evil Magical Disguise Lords of the Boonski’i

Welcome,

Bambi Jay

, you are

Viola

,

Odd-Night Follower Even-Night Voyeur

.

Disguise, I see thou art a wickedness

ii;ii Twelfth Night

Your group private thread is here.

Abilities:

• You are an

Odd-Night Follower

. On any Odd-night, you may target someone to learn what type of actions a player performed, but not who that player targeted.
• You are an

Even-Night Voyeur

. On any Even-night, you may target someone to learn what type of actions were performed on a player, but not who targeted them.

Win condition:

You win when all of the Bard’s Battalion have died, or nothing can prevent this from happening.

Game thread is here. Confirm by replying to this PM with your role name.

[Almost50]

Also my hood has died basically. Nobody in there seems motivated to talk at all.

When someone questioned the die off, another someone told them to scum hunt in the main thread.

Of those two responses to the hood going dry ... I feel like the "don't use it, just scum hunt in the main thread" response is maybe questionable. Thoughts?

Generally speaking I think neighborhoods are more beneficial for scum. Unless you know who scum is in your hood, or -even better- deduce that there are none; then anything said in secrecy jeopardized and is likely to be shared with the scum team while keeping the town out of it. The only exception I can think of is someone slipping, Like I say something in a hood and someone who is not in it showing signs of knowing about it, or maybe FL posting in the wrong thread

[Almost50]

That's how people were in the 50p game that got cancelled too. The bigger the hood the less people wanna use it instead of the main thread.

That's because the bigger it is the more likely scum are in it. You don't see one third of the game in one hood and think "This is likely a masonry" now do you?

[Almost50]

A50 and MT also posting elsewhere on site.

Good for you to notice. Did you also notice I posted in here less than two hours before your post??

[Almost50]

Btw, can someone who isn't ABR who is also SRing Drixx walk me through it like I was 50 years younger?? Is me liking Drixx as a person blinding me from seeing he is scum here? I mean, I also like EJ as a person but I am still SRing him, so can someone help me see the light?

[Almost50]

Mages are evil by nature. Mages are the antithesis to Jigsaw's science and traps. Jigsaw wants us to kill the Mage.

We must follow Jigsaw.

See? I bloody old you EJ was on the Jigsaw Acolytes' side. This is also a classic move (from back in the old days EJ playstyle). He loves to crumb being scum (what was that old account where crumbed being a WW in the game with Masons and Monks??)

[Almost50]

You're probably thinking Jay Dragon something or other.

Yeah. That's the one.

That's very weak evidence nowadays Almost. Back then I had more of an ego and wanted to brag about it. Now I play more natural.

Sometimes you just gotta meme.

Problem is I can't bring myself to believe you,man. I mean, if I knew there was a Vig I'd let it go and leave it to them by now, since not enough people seem to care enough. *Sigh*

So, can you at least throw on a readlist of some kind?

[Almost50]

I'm seeing a lot of posts that I fundamentally disagree with

It could/would be helpful if you quoted/referenced those and explained why you disagree with them

[Almost50]

Penguin and I Townread one another, guessed (correctly) that one of our number was scum, then offered the scum a Faustian deal of helping him fulfill his secondary wincon if he would roll on his buddies. It worked, and we broke the game.

I guess there's no honour in the crime world anymore.

[Almost50]

here's the simple Dave case, he has 47 posts at the moment and these are his only two votes:

VOTE: GuiltyLion

I know essentially nothing about the flavor, hopefully that's not too much of an impediment.

I don't think it's too much to ask, to explain a read.

VOTE: Elsa Jay

I don't know what your idea of "nothing suspicious" is, but when I reread your ISO it turned up to be almost everything suspicious. Including the comment about trying not to be.

I currently have 54 posts (this is my 55th) and I only voted once. Does that make me scum?

Based on MY experience with dave, he is more likely town than scum here. Furthermore, pressure doesn't really make him yield. He plays the way he wants to and will fight to death for his own view.

I invite you all to reference his play in TM2020 (Large Theme) for a premium example of what I mean. Half the town were SRing him form D1 all the way until the game was over (not to mention scum kept him as winning mislynch at the end of the game). Even when he had a guilty on the last scum (we were at 4-1) a townie still wanted to lynch him over his guilty.

[Almost50]

You still think GL is scummy? Enough to not help us build the first real bandwagon of the day?

Build a wagon on someone who will react to it in an AI way. dave is definitely not that person.

[Almost50]

See, THAT is the problem. You now say LYNCH when it started off with "building wagons". I am alright wagoning multiple people, but if I had a DayVig I'd most likely shoot between you and EJ as we stand.

So, are you building wagons to pressure people and get them to talk more, or are aiming to end the day?

[Almost50]

@GL: ISO dave in THIS game and then compare his play to his play here

[Almost50]

no, I'm not going to read a 314 page game where Dave was town and try to find similarities myself that make him automatically town in this game. Speak to me about what he has done

in this game

that makes him town.

I did not say to read the game, man. I said to ISO him. Skim his ISO and see what it feels like. If he's not doing much or if he has some inexplicable posts now I'm sure he does have a reason for it.

If we are going to lynch for the sake of lynching then let it be someone who is unlikely to win us the game when push comes to shove. Strong town players also tend to be the target of town investigations and/or scum NKs, so leave those alone.

Now vote EJ with me because he is MUCH stronger as SCUM. His town game is .. wait.. when was the last time he rolled town?? EJ & FL are designated scum in any given game.

[Almost50]

Why does what's happened here make you want to shoot GL? (not going to argue with the second choice)

That was actually directed at ABR not GL, but I didn't preview so I understand the confusion.

So, to be clear: my top two SRs are EJ & ABR

[Almost50]

See, THAT is the problem. You now say LYNCH when it started off with "building wagons". I am alright wagoning multiple people, but if I had a DayVig I'd most likely shoot between you and EJ as we stand.

So, are you building wagons to pressure people and get them to talk more, or are aiming to end the day?

I don't give a fuck about weak hands pulling their vote at L-2.

I am talking about a LYNCH.

I need WARRIORS with DIAMOND HANDS.

And that's exactly why I want you lynched/vigged. Your attempt to strongarm the game the way you want it to go. Your defence of EJ and redirection of the wagon unto someone you know well won't react in a good way ro being wagoned. Everything you post appears to be scum motivated and I fail to find the town motive for it.

P.S. I may have bought this attitude from a less experienced player, but not you. And removing me from your "not to lynch today" pool just because I didn't sheep you is yet another red flag. There are players I wouldn't lynch D1 regardless, and I don't change that just because they go against me.

[Almost50]

Pine, a50 and Blake.

What's your 6 players you are willing to lynch?

I only have TWO. I won't be voting anyone outside of you/EJ until further notice.

[Almost50]

ABR transparently wants a big wagon, doesn't really care much who it's one

Oh, but he does care. He is firmly against an EJ wagon, for instance.

[Almost50]

As I've said, you can wipe your ass with your two scum reads,

town should expand lynchpool to 6

.

Show me the rule. It sure isn't in THIS game's special rules, and it sure as hell isn't in the site's general rules either. I tried to find it on the wiki and I couldn't find anything as such. So, where did you get that "town should expand lynchpool to 6"??

[Almost50]

(1) EJ is one of the two players scumreading Guilty with me. (2) I won't attack them for that. (3) Keeping to only two players you're willing to lynch is anti-town and scummy. (4) Firstly, it absolves you of blame if it's a mislynch. (5) Second, it stops town from creating bandwagons that force scum to put skin in the game to back up their talk. (6) Third, it protects them from OMGUS from town who are upset they are being accused. (7) (7) There's nothing more upsetting than being falsely accused of something when you know you're innocent, (8) and it's easy to create a bias against a player who is antagonistic to you but also town.

Note: Numbers are edited in by me.

(1)

In other news:

VOTE: GuiltyLion so we can get off the Almost wagon. He'll solve himself later.

That doesn't look like a scumread to me.

(2) I didn't build my case against him based on that, nor did I even factor it in. EJ is the TRAITOR and is signaling to the main team.

(3) I happen to disagree. After all, we can only lynch ONE player at a time.

(4) If we lynch on of my 2 SRs, how does it absolve me from anything if they flip town?

(5) I am not stopping anyone from doing anything. You overestimate my influence on the crowd.

(6) I don't even get this point. What does OMGUS have to do with this? And -more to it- how do you know the OMGUS'ed pkayer's alignment via the flip of the lynchee?

(7) I think there are a few other things, but that's irrelevant.

(8) Ah-ha. So if -I understand correct- this is a direct contradict with point #6 and is -in fact- supporting my argument. I mean, let's say you're town

for the sake of argument

. Now let's say you lynch me, and I say you are scum for it. What next? Do you want the town to lynch you next because I flipped green??

[Almost50]

Furthermore, as a town leader, on the offchance A50 is a vig, I definitely want EJ alive tonight. So I'm never going to vote EJ today, ever. Whether I find EJ suspicious or not doesn't even matter.

1- You are no town leader anymore than Joseph Stalin was.
2- What makes you think I'd be shooting him over you?

[Almost50]

Why do you care about my answers if you already made up your mind that I'm scum? When I think someone is scum, I interact a lot less with them, and work on getting town consensus to vote them out. I wrote an article about it in the wiki a decade ago.

I don't have sufficient evidence you are scum though. I suspect you the most, but I can't get a judge to issue a subpoena for your arrest still.

[Almost50]

@BBM: I almost typed "Michael Keaton", but I checked your activity and realized you have been posting around this time for the past 3 days.

[Almost50]

Almost I'm starting to think your going out of your way to try and make the vigilante(s) waste a shot on me. Usually you've just left me alone day 1 and such because I'm "entertaining". I think your just trying to detract from the other potential wagons today.

You didn't crumb Traitor in other games I let you be on D1. In fact, Joan was the one that crumbed Traitor (and turned out to be a member of YOUR scum team signaling for your Traitor) in TBONTB. Now tell the crowd how I went berserk in that game. insisted that Joan was scum even after the true Hider flipped, and how I locked horns with town!Titus about it but was never able to lynch Joan until Titus was dead.

Bottom line: I do like you, but when you are OBV!SCUM to me you need to be lynched or vigged. Scum!You is resourceful and there's no telling how far you can go if people kept on brushing it off.

[Almost50]

And if I understand correct, there's a good chance one of those wagons is indeed on scum and you are trying to associate me with them already. I just dunno WHICH of them is on said scum.

[Almost50]

As I've said, you can wipe your ass with your two scum reads,

town should expand lynchpool to 6

.

Show me the rule. It sure isn't in THIS game's special rules, and it sure as hell isn't in the site's general rules either. I tried to find it on the wiki and I couldn't find anything as such. So, where did you get that "town should expand lynchpool to 6"??

Not sure this is serious.
If so can you tell me why you thought abr was saying it was a rule.

You're missing the point. It was indeed sarcasm because he said town "should" do it. I mean, town "should" play to their win con (and so does everyone else). THAT is a rule. A player "should not" claim scum with someone else. THAT is also a rule. Town should expand their lynch pool is NOT a rule, and that was the whole point.

[Almost50]

Setup-speccing that there might be a traffic analyst in a game where 80%+ of people are in hoods is really strange.

This IS why a Traffic Analyst makes sense, dude. They

cannot

catch scum in hoods. It's like when you see a game had a GF and you know there has to be an Alignment Cop because of it.

[Almost50]

Almo, are 457 and 776, and 891 your reasons for wanting to lynch Elsa? A traitor crumb, foreshadowing that he's scum WHILE there's a wagon on him, and the fact his scumgame is stronger than his towngame?

True, but mainly the Traitor crumb.

[Almost50]

I don't even know what traitor crumb your talking about anyway. Do you mean me bringing up the idea the neighborhood could've been for the traitor to talk to the main group scum?

Not "just" that. You did mention it AGAIN a couple of posts later, and then AGAIN addressing PK

the hoods would probably be used to allow a traitor to talk to their teammates otherwise if they kill the other person in said hood.

Initial mention that could be seen as justified setup spec

I almost wanna say a traitor is a given

Second time which is more assertive there is one.

Then again I've played too many Boon games and think it's him or Almost running this game, so I'll assume the more common thing and say they're just together in general. Or the 4 plus traitor thing.

Less assertive tone, but considering the mere times of mentions it sounds mire assertive than it should have been taken separately

Pisskop is the traitor.

Case closed.

AGAIN.. you seem persistent in asserting there

has to be

one

Because its Saw. If Hoffman isn't a Traitor or something, it'll be weird to me.

A "late" explanation that would have looked MUCH less sus if it was brought up in the original mention or soon after.

So, in sum you are confident there is a Traitor, and you "later" found a reason to justify such belief. To me this sound

very much

like Traitor!you announcing their

presence

identity to the main team

@dave: Did he crumb it like THIS? I mean, a link would make it easier for me to check for myself, or even the full game's name and mod

[Almost50]

Seems I have to be the one to point this out again. The game has an advertised town:scum ratio.
In a non-bastard game advertised with a specific town:scum ratio, I don't think a traitor is possible. Unless you're trying to argue it's 4 groupscum+traitor which would be a massive difference in balance.

I am sure 4 scum in a PT who are told they have a Traitor + a Traitor who is told who their 4 team members are doesn't cross the borderline.

[Almost50]

Almo, are 457 and 776, and 891 your reasons for wanting to lynch Elsa? A traitor crumb, foreshadowing that he's scum WHILE there's a wagon on him, and the fact his scumgame is stronger than his towngame?

True, but mainly the Traitor crumb.

she crumbed traitor in lnt too, as town
i would usually like to sheep you when you get a strong read like this, but i am worried you are wrong this time

Oops! Sorry @dave. The question about the game name and a link should be directed @xtoxm

[Almost50]

@Hectic: Why would he be wary when evidently NOBODY is buying my case on him still, even those who do SR him for other reasons.

[Almost50]

I am willing to make a deal with you all: Lynch EJ. If he isn't a Traitor you can lynch me tomorrow. Is that good enough for you?

[Almost50]

.

Ok. I did a quick ISO (highlighted "Traitor") and he straight up said "@Mafia: I might be an informed traitor so don't shoot me", and was much less certain there is a traitor to begin with. That is so much different that

asserting

there is one here.

But you know what? This looks like a losing battle for me, so let me know if you have a good case on someone else (good case = doesn't include the words "gut" or "feel")

[Almost50]

Hectic's posts in the last 24 hours guarantee he is scum. His thought progression simply makes no sense unless he is scum.

I personally thought he was town from before, but I am unable to follow his thought process if late. That said, it's not uncommon for me to fail to see Hectic's logic in general, and it's even more common for him to SR me "just because..".

It could help if you could explain a bit further on why this must be a scum thought process over Hectic being himself.

[Almost50]

Almo, is your Elsa read also based on meta? Has Elsa so blatantly crumbed like this before as scum?

If you're not reading, please don't ask! I already talked about his blatant scum crumbs/claims before, and he responded with "that was old me under Jay Dragon"

[Almost50]

How is it that the only one picking up on Hectic claiming scum is GL?

I never claimed Hectic was one of the players I consider "most readable" to me. He confuses me most of the time, and he goes from extremely fluffy to reasonably serious from one game to another, so I don't even have a solid meta base to read him with precision.

Please point me to where he claimed scum.

[Almost50]

Or we could always give him a pass and try to lynch his teammates to give scum a fighting chance, because they are royally screwed in this game.

I mean if you have a solve, or are close to having one, then I will wait for you to figure things out and then follow your lead. I don't think flash lynching Hectic (assuming he is scum) gives us enough info about his team, so I'd rather keep the day going for another 72 hours or so

[Almost50]

@ABR: Are you talking about his question to Blake about dave when he had earlier been seesawing dave? Or are you talking about him SRing EJ but opting to vote me instead?

P-edit: If dave can see it, then I guess I'll sheep (although it would still be nice to know why I'm voting him eventually)

[Almost50]

OK. Let's see how this goes.

Reminder: There is no guarantee the Traitor returns a guilty to an Alignment Cop (and I'm not even sure there is an Alignment Cop to begin with. but it's likely). This is because there are many variations of the Traitor Role and this is not a Normal Game.

That said, a ROLE COP should return "Traitor" here (If my suspicions are spot on). A FLAVOUR Cop would probably return "whomever EJ claimed had to be a Traitor". Not even sure how wise it is for a Vig to shoot EJ since one of the variations is BP (that one probably cannot get recruited, and hence

THE IDEA OF KILLING SOMEONE TO HAVE THE PT FOR THEMSELVES MAKES MORE SENSE AGAIN!

The problem with the italics/capitalized is EH claimed NOT to be in a PT himself.

[Almost50]

I need a WC

Because I'm gonna be unleashing a whole load of poop in this place in a minute!

Couldn't get it to play from where I want it to using the youtube tags

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q118-MB-t3I&t=125

[Almost50]

P-edit: If dave can see it, then I guess I'll sheep (although it would still be nice to know why I'm voting him eventually)

VOTE: Hectic

[Almost50]

Last time I claimed traitor I was a Miller who didn't want to he checked and i had a feeling it would confuse scum too. I also made it to endgame that game because of it.

This game I'm making it so we aren't blindsided by some weird shit day 1 and stuff. Should've kept my crackpot theories to myself I guess.

This is the second or third time though I saw Almost go "if I'm wrong on elsa kill me after" though this game. That's very weird.

Call me delusional. Call me paranoid. But the only thing that jumped at me from this post was "Last time I claimed traitor I also made it to endgame that game because of it."

[Almost50]

@Pine: Maybe you can explain why it is a bad wagon? I mean, I've heard from the prosecutors and decided the case made sense. Now what are the defence arguments?

[Almost50]

So, where we at?

Also: Nice to know Blake is Ank. Doesn't help me get a better read there though, so still a town lean is all.

[Almost50]

I second ABR's request to consolidate. All vanity wagoners need to switch their votes tp a wagon that has more than one other vote

[Almost50]

Alright, whatever, I'm claiming:

I'm Detective Halloran, a Police X-shot Sleuth.

X amount of times, I can investigate someone at night to see if they're an

Acolyte

, but I can't detect Jigsaw himself with my check.

I've been crumbing it all game with my RP.

Then why the fuck did you FoS me for pointing your OBVIOUS crumb out? You made me feel like I misinterpreted something and that it wasn't a crumb.

VOTE: momo

[Almost50]

scum reads: .../A50

[Almost50]

Also, just for the record, I have no PR, so don't waste an NK on me, scumbags!

Contrary to this; I do have a very strong PR. I'm a Disloyal PGO Singer. By killing me; scum will lose a member but will also get a random TPR revealed to them. My PGO doesn't work on town though.

[Almost50]

Rats! I think SirCakez is Scum. He knew all along momo was Scum and didn't say a word until he was hammered. He also gave him that fake claimm and in his Role PM no less. I mean SC already knows the characters he used for the game so he aparently gave momo one that didn't exist to avoid a CC.

But SIRIOUSLY, "You have many allies. [REDACTED]" certainly does hint there IS a bloody Traitor. Read THE WHOLE of that Role PM. It already have momo the Scum PT for starters, so what does "You have many allies" mean if [REDACTED] wasn't something like "You know you have a Traitor but are not informed of their identity"?

So, EJ was correct (but I still maintain it was scummy to mention it that way. SORRY EJ)

So, what are these games? Do Scum pick who plays in them or does the mod? What "decisions" were made that resulted in these deaths? Obviously only Farside and BM can answer this last one.

[Almost50]

It's open season on you Jigsaw's cronies from today until the last day.

I heard you like traps so I trapped you with Hectic's bandwagon yesterday.

I called EJ town in our PT and BM can fact-check that.

This is MY HOUSE. I rule this fucking game. Step up to me. I WILL WREAK HAVOC ON YOU. YOUR BEGGING WILL BE MET WITH NINE VOTES ON MY SIGNAL.

I like this guy.

[Almost50]

Forgot one thing!

This message came over the loudspeaker in the middle of the night:

Welcome to ChannelSawNews

Today's topstory,Logan"momo"Nelson has been hung by the Survivors.He is survived by his partnersincrime,REDACTED, REDACTED,REDACTED,andJigsaw

BBmolla,identityhidden,was lauded as hero

"Well I told everyone I'd hammer in 10 minutes but I did in 5.Cause justice waits for noone."

Does this mean BBM is confirmed a townie?

Also, the 3 REDACTED+Jigsaw = NO SURVIVOR! Aaargh. So what the hell does that line in momo's PM mean??

[Almost50]

And I seem to recall someone saying we still get 3 deaths, but I can't seem to find it! I searched "three" and it says there are no suitable matches. Can anyone help me find it?

[Almost50]

AND I DON'T HIDE BEHIND ALTS

Alts are nor always to hide identities, my friend. Some are just to play differently.

[Almost50]

For anyone that cares. I was sent a pm last night that i was in a trap with pine and hectic. In order to save hectic one of us had to sacrific ourself. Pine agreed to save himself. Fat fucking bullshit that did.

That's it? So, no "puzzle" to solve and no chance of all 3 of you surviving?

[Almost50]

A neighbor, a IC, and a cop...

Sounds like a music band name to me

[Almost50]

FOUR OF THE REMAINING SCUM HIDE AMONG THESE SEVEN...

Gamma Emerald
VaultDweller
Vecna
iDanyboy
GeorgeBailey
Drixx
Blake Belladonna

I CALL THEM THE FINAL FOUR...
I WILL GRIP THEIR BEATING HEARTS ONE BY ONE...
TOMORROW THERE WILL BE THREE...
NOURISH ME WITH YOUR VOTES... GIVE THEM TO ME...
THE FEAST I THROW WILL PUT TO SHAME THE HALL OF GLUTTONS IN THE THIRD CIRCLE OF HELL

Preliminary, I'd agree 3 are (namely: VD/GB/BB), but according to my "next level scumhunting" I think MT is their 4th. This is based in some calculus mixed with astrology research and a touch of mind reading.

VOTE: VaultDweller

My most confident pick (along with Blake, but I don't want to upset Ank).

[Almost50]

Should I try to read the game or should I just be a sheep?

Reading is for humans.

(but seriously, why aren't you either solving or even having fun??)

[Almost50]

Are we supposed to take this literally? Because im viting danny already

I don't believe Danny is scum. here's why:

Spoiler:

Has anyone in this game played with Morning Tweet before? I'm not really liking the vibes I'm getting from her, but I don't if that's normal.

Post #165 is a clear attempt at budding someone that appears to be a town leader going into the game, but her posts become most problematic when you get to Post #174.

"But what if it's

, like,

one of those doors"

When speaking out loud, people naturally add in filled words such as "like" or "um" to fill space because they are uncomfortable with silence while they are thinking. Making a post with the word "like" as Morning Tweet did here is not natural, it's a deliberate decision. The only possible motivation I can imagine for that decision is to appear more trustworthy/relateable. There's no reason for town to make that decision and for that reason, I VOTE: Morning Tweet.

I think you're reaching here, I used to type like that aswell and the only reason I stopped is because it doesn't make sense most of the time.

Do you see scum telling their p they're reaching with their case? that's almost subtle shading. One that doesn't get them any town points upon flip.

I believe scum's fake claims are linked with there PT, so if it get's to late game and some one claims a flavor and that person should be in your respective hood they are probably scum.

The idea is genuine and pro-town to propose.

The longer Pine dodges this game while posting anywhere but here the more sure I am he's scum.

I played a game with him recently where he did just that, he was lynched and turned out to be town.

I think ABR pushing Vecna but never voting him is scummy and would like to know if anyone agrees or disagrees. Its the strongest read I have so would like to get some discussion on it.

This is my first game out of New York and I'm not used to playing with so many people so I'm finding it more difficult to get reads.

Defending a town lurker earns you suspicion with no real gain.

I agree staying on Hectic is/was bad, but give the guy a break. He's relatively new.

[Almost50]

THE FOUR HEARTS YOU WILL PRESENT TO ME OVER THE NEXT FOUR DAYS FOR THE FINAL FEAST... WHO DO THEY BELONG TO?

I already gave you my solve (I am serious, but not overly confident)

[Almost50]

Hectic (8) - momo, Albert B. Rampage, davesaz, Almost50, iDanyboy, Elsa Jay, xtoxm, Blake Belladonna

Out of all of these, I think iDany's looks the worse.

VOTE: iDany

Why?

[Almost50]

glad i defended elsa at least
sadly i think she was vigged :c

Almost TMI, my man. Like, ALMOST.

[Almost50]

I feel completely the opposite on the flavour suggestion. Now we know that scum get given fakeclaims, I feel like a fake flavour-solve is more likely to be on his mind as scum than town.

How about the other 2 points?

[Almost50]

Here’s the full report when I thought it was 300 word limit btw.

Spoiler:

Welcome to the Channel Saw News

Today's top story, Logan "momo" Nelson has been hung by the Survivors. He is survived by his partners in crime, REDACTED, REDACTED, REDACTED, and Jigsaw.

BBmolla, true identity hidden, was lauded as a hero for his hammer.

"Well I told everyone I'd hammer in 10 minutes but I did it in 5. Cause justice waits for no one."

We caught up to Albert B. Rampage, true identity hidden, before everyone headed off to sleep.

"Well as everyone knows, I wanted momo lynched the entire day. Some people were talking about a Hectic lynch but I fought very hard against that and stopped that nonsense so we could lynch the real scum, momo."

Hectic, true identity hidden, had a comment, but he just kept holding up pictures of Mario characters and the meaning was unclear.

Battle Mage, true identity hidden, was tried to reach for a comment, but they were too busy updating their readlist once again.

We almost gave up on finding more comments, but we ran into Vecna, true identity hidden, insisting his reads were so bad it was interesting.

"I've just always felt like I had a special talent, that I'm different than everyone else. It's finally nice to get the recognition I've always craved."

Elsa Jay, true identity hidden, spent most of the day mopping and came in last second with a vote.

"I don't really play games the first day. I'll see you tomorrow."

Pine, true identity hidden, shared similar sentiments.

"I'm actually doing a lot of solving in my neighborhood so bug off would you."

In other news, farside, true identity hidden, was bodyswapped with farside22, a clone of them from the past.

Also someone died. More on that.

With Channel Saw News this is Pamela Jenkins, good morning.

So this was your doing and not the mod's? If so, then I'm back to the Traitor theory.

[Almost50]

And what are you on about? The fact Momo was in the survivor PT?

No. That was typo.

I mistook it for a mod announcement and thought SC was telling us 3 scums + Jigsaw were all lnown to each other, so I meant to type "no TRAITOR". Now that I understand it was BBM's work I am back to interpreting the momo Role PM as meaning there is a Traitor.

[Almost50]

I'm back. Haven't done a lot so far, except ISO dany, who seems to be the leading wagon D2

from what I can gather

.

So I'm happy with this vote

for now

:

VOTE: iDanyboy

"from what I can gather" - it's pretty obvious from even a glance at the thread - if you'd ISO'd him, you obviously know this.

"for now"?? He's at like -1 or something dude, you kidding me?

These are Momo-scum vibes I get here.

Thank you.

[Almost50]

This looks like a lot of cherry picking of post.

VOTE: vault

Good call.

[Almost50]

Why would the Mod pick?

Not as "hand pick on purpose", but rather "at random".

[Almost50]

glad i defended elsa at least
sadly i think she was vigged :c

Almost TMI, my man. Like, ALMOST.

Almost - what is the value of your traitor speculation?

So far, not much. But down the road it benefits us to hunt for one-way associatives (The Traitor knowing the scum team and them not knowing him/her). Also a variant of Traitor loses already if the main scum team is wiped out, so there's that.

[Almost50]

Who is in VaultDweller's PT?

That one is bugging me the most. I did some PT speculation on my own and -if I'm correct- he should be in the FBI PT, and those I found were all protagonists. HOWEVER, as fakeclaims are readily provided that's a minor point of worry to me. He could be "X" who is certified scum, but has a fake claim as an FBI agent.

P.S. If he is not with MT then he is in the large one and I'd leave it to them to decide on him based on their PT content.

[Almost50]

Just trust my reads I got this game figured out. Wait until everyone posts and explains what they've been up to and I'll lay out my plan.

I mean, I am. I'm even voting one of them already. I won't deviate just to be different. Trust me on this.

[Almost50]

Vecna is NOT in a PT!!

[Almost50]

I will say one thing.

Danyboy's ISO is beyond dreadful, especially in light of Momo-scum.

I'm slightly leaning towards that over VaultDweller now. Especially if Vecna is town.

Both these players are in a pt with me, in the large one, neither have given me anything to go on in there.

All the more reason why my vote stays on VD. Him being in the large PT only helps to solve my dilemma with the FBI agents all being protagonists. (Not excluding an infiltrator with a fake claim still, but VD isn't even an FBI agent)

[Almost50]

I think maybe we should be hunting Jigsaw today to reduce the damage from traps - what do you think?

The idea is fine, but you're missing his acolytes would carry on his work long after he's dead.

[Almost50]

I'd go for a50 with the over-emphasis on Traitor spec - maybe crumbing traitor himself.

You don't know the first thing about how I crumb, do you?

But that's OK. If you all agree to lynch outside hoods I'm game, but my own solve has 4 who are all in PTs.

[Almost50]

Wait! MT+Blake in the same PT is a problem with my solve. Maybe one of them (Blake?) and one scum outside hoods?

[Almost50]

Yea the traitor stuff went over my head. The momo flip PM didn't show me anything that suggests traitor. Why do you think Jiggy doesn't have a neighbourhood? Apologies if you already said it though

It first says he can talk to his scum partners in a PT [1st REDACTED]. The 2nd is apparently the choices for the traps? The 3rd is the FBI PT. 5th is his fake claim. Now, what exactly is the 4th REDACTED?? The one that says "You have many allies."?

[Almost50]

Are you factoring in that Pine was in two hoods?

Yes, I currently have the following on the 7 person hood:

Vaultdweller
Danyboy
Farside
GeorgeBailey
Drixx
Hectic

and 1 more from:

Davesaz and Gamma Emerald

I think Gamma is in that hood and dave isn't. dave suggested looking at his previous posts when I asked, and it appears he had some questions he should not have had if he was in a PT.

[Almost50]

Both dave and GM. There is 8 in there.

I spoke too fast.

[Almost50]

I can't see A50 doing that as jigsaw. Jigsaw is a mastermind, someone clever, strategic. You were quick out of the blocks here - could YOU be Jigsaw?

wait why would Jigsaw's character in the flavor/movies be at all related to A50's play in this game? I don't remember anything about my character and I'm not exactly trying to role-play as them.

I think if A50 knows that a traitor exists he might spend day 1 trying to frame/set up a town slot as the traitor and use that as an easy narrative to push them, that's all. He's seemed more focus on traitor-spec in general compared to most players, no? Regardless it's why I'd look into him first of that group of 7, not a case of why he's definitively scum here.

I'm not gonna meta myself for you here. What I will say is I claimed my role towards the end of D1, so lynching me isn't the way for town to go. If Scum want to learn about another TPR they need to put me in a trap and get me killed, so excuse me if I decline the invitation to accept the rope route.

[Almost50]

Rats! I think SirCakez is Scum. He knew all along momo was Scum and didn't say a word until he was hammered. He also gave him that fake claimm and in his Role PM no less. I mean SC already knows the characters he used for the game so he aparently gave momo one that didn't exist to avoid a CC.

But SIRIOUSLY, "You have many allies. [REDACTED]" certainly does hint there IS a bloody Traitor. Read THE WHOLE of that Role PM. It already have momo the Scum PT for starters, so what does "You have many allies" mean if [REDACTED] wasn't something like "You know you have a Traitor but are not informed of their identity"?

So, EJ was correct (but I still maintain it was scummy to mention it that way. SORRY EJ)

So, what are these games? Do Scum pick who plays in them or does the mod? What "decisions" were made that resulted in these deaths? Obviously only Farside and BM can answer this last one.

Ngl this looks forced bro

Yes. I was trying to frame SC nut nobody followed.

[Almost50]

Yea the traitor stuff went over my head. The momo flip PM didn't show me anything that suggests traitor. Why do you think Jiggy doesn't have a neighbourhood? Apologies if you already said it though

It first says he can talk to his scum partners in a PT [1st REDACTED]. The 2nd is apparently the choices for the traps? The 3rd is the FBI PT. 5th is his fake claim. Now, what exactly is the 4th REDACTED?? The one that says "You have many allies."?

It's the list of his scumbuddies obviously!

Why not mention them when he mentioned the scum PT? The way it usually goes is "You are scum with X, Y & Z and you can talk to them here.."

But anyway, you want Xtoxm?

VOTE: Xtoxm

L-1

by my count.

I thought his D1 ending was indeed scummy, but I have a personal bias against lynching him for "reasons" that do not relate to this game. If I choose to set said reasons aside, I could see him flipping red.

[Almost50]

Still could be considered “hiding behind it” if your normal play is easy to sort

That's a BIG IF. I mean, I would consider reading me under AP easier than either A50 or JJD.

[Almost50]

anyone not voting Xtoxm right now needs to take a long hard look at themselves....

Are you telling people to go "have intercourse with themselves"? Otherwise, why would they have a hard on themselves??

[Almost50]

@Almost - how are you getting L-1 (8 votes)? I count 6 lol

Monkey's can't count.

P.S. Apparently it's mods on D1 and monkeys on D2.

[Almost50]

Can’t exactly call that a variant when it’s what Normals do

It;s listed under variations on the wiki. THEN it's mentioned in the Normal guidelines again.

[Almost50]

L-1 by my count.

Christ, can you hold your titties for a second

Hmmm... someone tells people to get hard on themselves, another tells them to hold their own titties. Is this game sponsored by Vivid Videos? Is SirCakez secretly Steven Hirsch??

[Almost50]

GG. Good design. Nice play by scum (but I'm soar I didn't get to be pit in a trap)

Thanks for the invitation SC.