Titus v. Alisae (endgame)

[Titus]

I'd explicitly leave RR on the board btw and just shoot him when the mason leads/conftown ran out. That would happen before RR hits max efficiency anyway. Of course that depends on Ali knowing just how much I respect RR.

[Titus]

You should've drafted me Alisae

I would've loved the challenge

I would have drafted you first in Ali's shoes. You can see the rationale in the post game in my stump pt. I dropped you from my mason pool partially because you were such a good scum pick and I knew your potential so I had to go a little off path.

[Titus]

My plan is good...

Your plan is based off imperfect information. My masons have already gotten onto me about how candid I am with you. I respect you. That's why I backed off venging Flavor Leaf. Do me a solid and trust that we have a plan and we listen to you.

Although you don't feel like it, you've been critical in avoiding disaster.l feel you couldn't play better.

[Titus]

Titus what do you want? To just lynch RR or Venge Hectic?

Lynch TSE who avenges RR. This conftowns Ank.

[Titus]

UNVOTE:

Pine and tse should acknowledge what is up

They both have and ty.

[Titus]

Pine is one. Who is the other?

[Titus]

Also, if it would help sort me, I also have the Ninja modifier for some damn reason, and we already have a Mafia Ninja flip

Your role is really, really weird.

Also, isn’t it explicitly not normal for town to have ninja modifier?

We're not in a Normal game?

I'm pretty sure my role was designed to be a negative utility/red herring machine.

Ninja can be either alignment. I could get legalistic but any modifier can go for either alignment unless strictly forbidden by the wiki page. (Explicitly not normal roles.)

[Titus]

the two slots I'm referring to is Pine + AF

AF already flipped scum?

[Titus]

Ali, look at Booneytunes that ended. Still strong town but you can see an environment that brought out the worst of my town traits by fucking with my assumptions. I expected you to do the same.

[Titus]

Titus when you say conf town do you mean mech town or 99% townie

Everything in life is open to imaginary or possible doubt. When I say conftown, I mean mech town or the series of assumptions would be absurd.

Anyone could argue you aren't "mechtown" but we'd have to suppose a lying town joat or a lying town Hectic for no reason other than to game throw. I don't indulge such fantasies when I say conftown.

[Titus]

Ok good i like your interpretation so ank will be conftown after vengeing rr?

Yes. I am supposing scum this far behind would kill. Scum Ank cannot predict TSE would be on him in advance of the no kill. Therefore, if RR lives or scum RR flips, Ank is conftown.

Flavor should be conftown tomorrow or scum shoot in our PoE.

Gobble is town bc Espy.

You're town.

That's 4 conftown in 7 alive if all goes according to plan.

[Titus]

Titus i really hope you have more info you are sitting on than that because otherwise I feel my plan is better

I understand.

I am sitting on something. I can't confirm or deny what it is. If you wind up in dead chat, you can ask the mod and my actions shall make more sense.

You know for a fact I am sitting on my mason(s) for starters.

[Titus]

Ready to end the day?

Yup.

[Titus]

Ty.

[Titus]

We are mass claiming today. If anyone else has withheld anything relevant, let us know. Pine's result on FL goes first, even if he wishes to withhold things elsewhere.

[Titus]

all im saying is if we had two more masons left including gobble this game would've been a guaranteed win! so that means titus has a better plan than a guaranteed win by lylo

Gobble was the last mason. Alisae solved that, despite my attempts to hide that.

Rest in peace Gobble.

[Titus]

Well scratch that. I'm not claiming. Y'all are.

I did a lot of lying to hide Gobble being a mason that long.

Amrun friendly neighbored Gobble so we knew Amrun was town. I forgot she was ascetic, so I had Gobble fake one shot cop. Then when we realized it too late, I faked a disloyal vig. I apologize for the lies. I did crumb Amrun being FN though.

[Titus]

Btw, massclaim starts with Hectic because he's gobble's biggest unclaimed suspect. Hectic will popcorn to his, so on and so forth.

[Titus]

Btw, massclaim starts with Hectic because he's gobble's biggest unclaimed suspect. Hectic will popcorn to his, so on and so forth.

i no longer have any secrets
you've already pried everything out of me

Then just restate it for my edification. What you did each night and your shots.

[Titus]

I want Ank's claim next too. I think Ank and Pine are the only ones with useful information that haven't claimed.

[Titus]

Flavor Leaf is vanilla

Ok

FL
Oka

RR

Pine
Espy

Ank
Hectic

[Titus]

FL
Oka
SW

RR

Pine
Espy

Ank
Hectic

Ebwop

[Titus]

Why RR and Pine so high?

-S

RR is so high because his BP (as of now) is the only way we can explain the no death. At the time of the no kill, there was some remote possibility of FL being a mason.

Pine is so high because of his actions doing steps to confirm multiple people and his probably incorrect push on Espy felt townie.

[Titus]

Is there any way Hectic knows Oka is town day 2 outside of an actual rolecop action? In which case he could not have done the roleblock on chemist, right?

-S

Timeline confused. Hectic's alibi for the Chemist block is tracking insomnia nowhere...and he died the same night.

[Titus]

Timeline confused. Hectic's alibi for the Chemist block is tracking insomnia nowhere...and he died the same night.

no Hectic rolecopped OkaPoka night 1 I thought?

Wait shit you're right, the block on Chemist was n2?

-S

+1

There is no missing block night 1

[Titus]

The night 2 when Pine failed on Espy and pressured it if my mind serves me correctly

[Titus]

I probably missed a few mods there so correct any errors you see thanks

-S

Pine's failure on Espy came on n2, he pushed it d3.

[Titus]

Factoring Pine's consistent semi-provable action we get

FL SW Oka

Pine
RR

Espy - Here bc Ali wifomed scum knowing the role.

Ank
Hectic

I can't see a world where scum isn't in Hectic Ank

[Titus]

I think it makes sense that Alisae team kills me too.

this is impossible because the 1-shot bp was intact when the venge landed

-S

Do we have any proof TSE venged though?

[Titus]

We don't but I'm not operating on the assumption he actively threw the game

-S

The babysitter fake makes me think he kinda did. Part of the reason I was ok with the TSE lynch was we get conftown Ank from it, but we didn't.

[Titus]

I think it makes sense that Alisae team kills me too.

this is impossible because the 1-shot bp was intact when the venge landed

-S

Yeah, that’s what I’m figuring. RR got shot, nobody died because he had a BP. Unless he’s lying about it to cover some sort of action.

What action though? Everything's pretty well known.

[Titus]

Gobble thinks Hectic and I'm not certain he's wrong. I think Hectic matches the townbeard profile more in the votes but I am perfectly ok lynching there today.

Pedit- RR third shot is bg. Crumbled day 1

[Titus]

I still think it's Ank though.

[Titus]

Pedit- RR third shot is bg. Crumbled day 1

I had that

BG, Hood, what was the third?

-S

BP

[Titus]

So how the fuck did he think he was shot the night he protected boon?

-S

BP is passive, not active. That's why we don't when it went off.

[Titus]

VOTE: Hectic

Unless Ank claims something stellar, we probably lynch between those two and win.

[Titus]

Then how the fuck is that a joat shot?

That's such a weird claim, 1-shot "passive" BP on a joat? I've never heard of that

-S

I haven't either but I think it's designed to be a mislynchable claim.

Why would the mods make a BP scum when the only town killing is a vengeful anyway? That makes no sense balance wise.

[Titus]

My brain says no way in hell it's RR mechanically. RR's claim would look 1000 times better if he stuck on Gobble, like we agreed.

Ank's still not posting her claim fully.

Hectic's alibi is shit and he attempted to wagon Amrun day 1.

[Titus]

Friendly reminder that Alisae wrote the scum rolecards not the mods

RR also has two of the worst posts in the game ftr

-S

Mods wrote town roles while being aware of scum roles.

[Titus]

1-shot BP also gives scum wiggle room in a game with 3 different 1-shot alien abilities

-S

?

[Titus]

VOTE: Ank

I still don't buy RR.

[Titus]

The biggest problem with the Hectic solve would be that the scumteam would lack a strong VCA fucker...

OkaPoka, post game we're going to have a nice chat about how scum FL was never winning this game

[Titus]

I think I caused Ank better.

[Titus]

Ankamius doesn’t have a single action confirmed on them thus far, and with a Disloyal Friendly Neighbor, it makes sense to have scum who has an Ascetic.

Or else you just never claim the disloyal part of the role, which could technically mean Espeonage is scum, because they’re also unconfirmable.

The last scum is part of the Ascetic puzzle

Seems much more likely that Alisae put ascetic enabler on Pine town to balance no scum ascetics but Alisae required them

[Titus]

okay

I am a Jack of All Trades (Neighborizer, Rolecop, Watcher)

Night one: Neighborized Insomnia
Night two: Rolecopped Insomnia (vanilla)
Night three: No Action
Night four: No Action
Night five: Watched Pine (nobody)

So that's why Pine didn't die. You needed a believable fakeclaim

[Titus]

now tell me

WHY DOES NOBODY DIE ON THE NIGHT THAT GOBBLE WAS SUPPOSEDLY PROTECTED BY RR?

RR wifomed it and protected FL instead.

Either scum shot FL and TSE no venged OR scum no killed.

Scum RR doesn't likely no kill unless he's certain TSE dies in the near future.

[Titus]

3 town JOATS, tracker, watcher, voyeur, plus Vanilla Cop, scum have a ninja to counteract it.

That’s what I expected Ankamius to claim, that or follower instead of watcher.

The logical action for scum last night was to kill you or Pine. Not gobble. The only reason to deviate is if you knew a watcher was coming. Ank knew his fake would be watching Pine.

What's doubly interesting is we could have used the Watcher role to give Espy another use of his role.

I am perfectly ok with an Ank lynch.

[Titus]

now tell me

WHY DOES NOBODY DIE ON THE NIGHT THAT GOBBLE WAS SUPPOSEDLY PROTECTED BY RR?

RR wifomed it and protected FL instead.

Either scum shot FL and TSE no venged OR scum no killed.

Scum RR doesn't likely no kill unless he's certain TSE dies in the near future.

You know what, TSE probably didn’t mean to no venge, they were probably just MIA the entire time, and straight up missed the timer.

Timer was cut short. Either TSE chose to no venge, or he venged RR.

[Titus]

Scum didn’t no kill there.

why the fuck are you still debating this, scum definitely no killed

-S

Scum no killing definitely points to someone who could be cleared by the babysitting TSE role, assuming we wouldn't lynch to clear the issue.

Otherwise, a no kill risks creating a random townfirm that scum must deal with.

[Titus]

Which definitely means someone largely townread to survive against a townfirm or eat it themselves, which is back to Ank

[Titus]

Otherwise, a no kill risks creating a random townfirm that scum must deal with.

no kill keeps the game on evens before scum knew that vanilla results meched people as town

it was meant to push the game more into mountainous I think

-S

Keeping the game on evens benefits town more than scum. We get an extra lynch and I keep plan T if we lynch in mylo. We'll have a conftown if it gets that far anyway.

[Titus]

I'm largely townread???

You were

[Titus]

Keeping the game on evens benefits town more than scum.

not really

-S

It does. Gobble requested me not to explain. I am going to ask you to trust me here.

[Titus]

Scum didn’t no kill there.

why the fuck are you still debating this, scum definitely no killed

-S

Scum no killing definitely points to someone who could be cleared by the babysitting TSE role, assuming we wouldn't lynch to clear the issue.

Otherwise, a no kill risks creating a random townfirm that scum must deal with.

What night was the no kill?

Night 4.

We then lynched TSE after the NK because I wanted to actually confirm Ank.

[Titus]

If RR no killed and we never lynched TSE, that's a horrible spot for RR

[Titus]

We should just win if Pine is town anyway.

[Titus]

Ank to autowin this game we only need 2 town that aren't you btw

-S

Actually 1 but I can't explain it.

[Titus]

@SW, @FL @OkaPoka

Are you guys fine locking Pine as town?

[Titus]

Ok. Good. If OkaPoka is fine with that, then we can start turbo lynching and fast nighting. I want to get this done.

[Titus]

@SW, @FL @OkaPoka

Are you guys fine locking Pine as town?

I am!

You should say no because you lose then.

[Titus]

@SW, @FL @OkaPoka

Are you guys fine locking Pine as town?

I am!

You should say no because you lose then.

not if he's scum!

*pats*

Good luck Alisae.

I'm ready to move this along. Please start voting anyone but conftown or Pine.

[Titus]

FL, then vote Ank.

We can let town decide between RR and Ank. We can lynch the other tmo. If that fails, Hectic.

[Titus]

RR lynch, then Hectic lynch, then one of Espeonage-Pine is Ank’s victory path. It’s pretty clearly there

And then Ank still loses.

[Titus]

FL is positing that I have a bullproof or whatever the hell

Don't see how you get this.

[Titus]

S, does it matter why RR is lynched if we autowin anyway?

[Titus]

*sigh*

I am off to bed.

S FL just agree on someone to lynch and a locktown k thx gn

[Titus]

Can we please feed the blood gods? They're hungry. They don't care about pride.

[Titus]

Can we please feed the blood gods? They're hungry. They don't care about pride.

hope they like rations

(L-1)

They settle for rations because if rations are evil, they're smart enough to figure out the failsafe. They just want everyone not conftown dead.

[Titus]

Hammer is needed. Please vote for fast night too guys if we need it.

Oka, can you do the honors on RR?

[Titus]

Watson, man. Please. Are you hearing me? Why slow things down?

[Titus]

Before things get to crazy, I hope someone nominates OkaPoka for rising star for his play here. Oka's patience in uniting the town despite his frustrations in being told information was beyond his ability to get. Many lesser players start a coup trying to recruit players to their side. A lot of games turn on the ability of town to work together, not the accuracy of their reads. This is a perfect example. OkaPoka prevented me from falling into my traps along with my masons.

Caps off to you OkaPoka.

[Titus]

Spoiler: Enjoy

Glad I never had to use this but I love it. This was my backup plan if we mislynched in mylo. That meant we only needed one more townie, not two. This

Sorry I couldn't tell you OkaPoka. My last backup was to shoot gloating scum.

[Titus]

Town wasn't terrible, so good job. Scum was terrible. <3

Actually, you guys did really well until D3, when things started to risk falling apart, but the recovery came through. I'll have more thought later, but we kinda threw, even ignoring the inability of this slot to find time to play the game.

Drixx and I legitimately exchanged at most 20 sentences about the game. :p

-Cerb

RR, it was really hard for me to read you, but I still knew lynching you D1 was bad. It was only after mid game that I realized picking you as scum was not ideal play given Ali's rules.

Btw, you were in my mason pool. I knew it was a huge risk to include you, but our synergy is that good.

[Titus]

Shoutout to titus for town leading in a fucking fantastic way

Shoutout to my conftown bros sw and flavor leaf

You and my masons got the best out of me. Your push to have me drop AF as a mason fake directly contributed to getting him lynched. I really wanted Aaron to be town. One of my bad traits is tunneling when I want something to be true, I convince myself of it. I still haven't seen town Aaron.

I drafted my masons to prevent me from tunneling Krazy and doing town dividing things. They were amazing.

Town brought out the best in me, and I'd like to think I brought out the best in you.

[Titus]

jesus

even the dead thread wanted me picked as scum first

If I was against Ali, I scum pick you first.

[Titus]

why?

Ank and I have an intuitive relationship as scum that goes way back. It's so old the game I am referencing got deleted. That type of synchage in scum is important imo. I pulled off a rare white flag gambit in the game and he intuitively understood what I was doing w/out daychat.

[Titus]

4. Hectic
Pros: He has a limited pool of knowledge but not going to draw attention, very low drama
Cons: Easier mislynch in this type of game

nice, this is the roast i was craving

The knowledge was like meta knowledge of me :/ They are rough notes sorry

[Titus]

was it that one open game with the two roles+backups on opposite alignments + the vig?

this one

and it looks like it was since some posts were apparently lost from that game

My wiki shows it as deleted I think. Damn. Yes that one is why I first pick you.

[Titus]

btw Titus this was meant to be a self-deprecating joke, wasn't expecting you to take it literally lmao

oh fuck don't conf town me then ever

Narrowing down to 6 was so hard, so I had every incentive to.

[Titus]

This was almost a perfect sweep! Good game everyone.

Me, Ank, and Titus did a good job of forcing town to compromise on scum almost every day despite never agreeing on a solve or every read, even if sometimes we frustrated each other. I think three strong-willed players with strong reads can do a lot, especially since I had Watson nudging me to compromise more.

Ali did a good job on undoing the free townread I gave chemist day 1 off their interactions but unfortunately it cost them a lot of issues with chemist/RR later.

Overall this was a pretty clean game, I think I only lost my temper once and that was lowkey related to pain from my arms (sorry GG)

I pretty much agree with this. I feel that Okapoka Gobble and Spiffeh really helped with the compromising process there too as I spent a good chunk of the game doubting your alignment.

I think Alisae had an issue in the draft phase. I like the Bitmap pick because he can read my emotional state though. Ali needed people who rile me up or get me to be more ego driven.

[Titus]

Titus sitting on a vig?

Ohhhh that makes sense now

I did not expect that, i was thinking that maybe pine was a third mason

Yeah, I couldn't tell you because I had no way of telling you that without telling RR.

Plan T was I shoot the scumfuck that brags about winning.

[Titus]

I think like all of town played well

Including u chemist, you got lynched from unfortunate circumstances of wrong place at the wrong time

But in the end your no result help solidified conftowning important slots

+1

[Titus]

Hey from the perspective of pure mechanical theory, should scum UBs inherit scum neighborhoods?

No. A UB doesn't inherit past events, only unused abilities.

[Titus]

Ali, there's plenty of people you put as not good enough that straight up are good enough. I had a gameplan from the start. It was restrain my bad impulses. My draft and perceptions supposed you were going to try to neuter my strengths and get my worst habits.

You'll see I didn't even do my VCA here because I supposed, from the start, that it was compromised.

[Titus]

If you drafted FL Bitmap MariaR and Amrun you would have had an emotionally dominant team which could have wrecked me.

Edit link me to the discord

[Titus]

Titus
I don't know why you keep on justifying Bitmap as a good draft, he's awful
he doesn't actually know how to play scum

he's a terrible draft

Bitmap would be used to monitor my emotional state. Seeing me face to face, he can definitely know when I'm bluffing or not. Sure he might need protection but if you control the emotional tenor of the thread, he'd have it.

[Titus]

This is certainly one of the most interesting games i've read.

Hey! Glad I entertained you. Long time no see.

[Titus]

@Drixx,

I did have the one shot vig left. It was a strongman too. Technically, I made myself novice so I could not use my vig night one. This game was about avoiding disaster.

[Titus]

@Drixx,

I did have the one shot vig left. It was a strongman too. Technically, I made myself novice so I could not use my vig night one. This game was about avoiding disaster.

wait a minute, thats not normal!

It is normal just not explicitly so.

[Titus]

I can sympathize with Drixx saying the game is exhausting. I constantly had to push myself out of my comfort zone to guide town. The role of town treestump is not usually the role I play in games. I expected the change but not to the extent I did.

[Titus]

If disliking the stump's picks for scum roles creates a bad gamefeel for scum that might be a thought that maybe scum stump should not be designing scum rolecards in future stump v stump games.

I think that's a valid thought

I think that the scum treestump should pick eir roles with their team but give them 48 hours max. The team won't get a bad feel then.

[Titus]

but thats 48 more hours of waiting for thread unlock ;-;

You'd be surprised at what things can be done simultaneously. Both the scum draft and mason drafts happened at the same time. Ali's just had to finish before my names could resolve.

[Titus]

If the mods have a moderate power level idea, they can start designing and tinker around the finished product.

[Titus]

If Ali had RR's brain in role design/rule design, then e'd be in a better spot imo.

[Titus]

I'm glad no one was legit pissed I didn't pick them. I really worried that people would react like RR did.

That's a big reason I WOTCed some people. The drama would be bad.

[Titus]

I could beat Titus though.

WOW TITUS ARE YOU JUST GOING TO TAKE THAT

If you're serious, I call dibs on the scum treestump.

[Titus]

Math, I agree the setup doesn't usually lend itself to hydra treestumps. Drixx and Cerb have hydraed together so well they are practically one persona. Their hydras run much smoother than ours.

As for being a town treestump again, I need a break of at least two months before doing that again. Winning as a town treestump in this setup is exhausting and I had a town familiar with my meta and brought the best out of each other. I think I have found the trick to this setup as town, my next goal is to find the method of cracking it as scum.

I also wouldn't mind being a draftable player.

It looks like SS and the worst have a bonafide hit on their hands. Best new mechanic here. So many people are excited about it.

[Titus]

This setup took being vulnerable in ways that I usually wasn't even from day 1. At EoD 1, I wanted more time to look at Maki hydra because of an intense migraine. Spiffeh told me town needed the lynch then. If I didn't know Spiffeh was town, I might have dug in my heels and accused Spiffeh of rushing the lynch. Yet that type of lynch is exactly what I drafted Spiffeh for.

Then on day 2, it was a perfect storm to suspect S and W. Given the D1 lynch hit scum, I supposed it was a trap so I'd clear Sherlock by my VCA. In trying to predict what scum was doing, I almost fell into my own vices which would have been bad.

Then there's the AF desire on Day 2. I knew it was largely a town push. That's why I had to abandon the mason wifom when OkaPoka told me the effect on the town. I'm sure others said that too but his stood out.

I wasn't sure Bitmap was scum. I was like 75% sure. I knew I had the thread backing because of the pressure I got on his fakeclaim. It makes sense to use a neighborize before a Cop/GS shot as you'd have a safe place for crumbs. Doctor did not. When town agreed, that's when I locked on.

Then there was leaving the Ank case on the thread floor when no one liked it. I did but town was doing so well at that point, I'd be dumb to push my desires there. Listening to town is what got us that far. Still it was hard not to go into them full tilt when I expected a major headspace thinker to be scum. Gobble's thoughts really helped me not go crazy here.

I am glad Amrun wasn't upset with me highlighting her conftown status. I supposed she would be blocked as an outed "loyal mailwoman". Her dayplay was struggling, and she knew it. Scum killing her was a net positive over Oka or Gobble. I agree with Drixx or Cerb there.

Then there's the RR play. RR I find incredibly hard to read. I know they are weaker on D1, regardless of alignment. Sure in hindsight there were little things that I should have been suspicious of, but they were not so glaring to be obvious (example: giving reads when I asked). RR is a player whose AtE is very effective on me. They can make me regret pushing on them as either alignment. Given I knew I had trouble challenging RR on that level, I worked from a theory that let town hypothetically mislynch him but still having us win.

Winning as a town treestump requires that level of self-reflection and teamwork. That's why it's exhausting.

So even though it was a "stomp", the result doesn't reflect how close I felt this game was.

Thanks guys.

[Titus]

+1 I agree and that's an aberration from my normal play that's exhausting. I had to structure my entire play, pregame to end, to avoid extreme ego conflicts. That was much harder than expected. I'm glad you were able to take the suspicion and not tilt because of it Ank.

[Titus]

I do have to commend Gobble for dealing with the distancing. He had asked me to be harsher to him to hide him being a mason. It ran counter to my nature because my instincts are to protect those on my team. Oka and Gobble both had to deal with that.