Mainstream Mafia II: D&D Edition [FIN]

[The Fonz]

Sup.

VOTE: The Fonz

Sorry hun, you ain't my type.

[The Fonz]

I don’t lie, I just claim things that aren’t my role genuinely.

But I am unrecruitable town, not giving more than that right now

I'm torn between wanting to PL you and wishing I'd done this first.

Let's vote No Governor because I have a mild preference for picking someone, but a strong aversion to expending the amount of characters and energy it would require to pick a candidate and try to talk enough people into going through with it.

VOTE: No Governor

Still VLA until Tuesday morning.

[The Fonz]

[quote="In post 2272, Elements"]Stop voting for no governor. It's more fun if we have it in the game.[/quote

Arguing against NG in the abstract but not making a case for one of the three possible candidates is SUCH a poser move.

[The Fonz]

Someone tell me who the claimed Miller masons are so I can iso them

[The Fonz]

Someone tell me who the claimed Miller masons are so I can iso them

You want to iso people in another completed game because Nero claimed they were annoying?

I... okay then.

No, obviously.

I saw someone say something about a Miller mason pair, thought it was somewhere in this game, but wasn't, and am not, in a position to read 90 pages to find the claim.

[The Fonz]

Can someone summarise claims for me?

My instinct is that Dr Drew's response to the potential slip doesn't make sense.

[The Fonz]

I'm considering it, but I'm not all the way caught up. Oh yeah.

I'm Cobble-aligned.

[The Fonz]

People, I think the combination of nontown role and flavor skim explains not noticing Cobble=town better than town Role plus skim. I'm not certain it's a slip, but it's considerably better than a random lynch, and a PGO claim means he will never be NKed so we either lynch him or he lives to endgame. I don't think I've seen the kind of highly engaged scumhunting that it would take for me to think delaying this decision is wise.

I'll vote when I see a VC, on a coffee break at work so gotta head off now.

[The Fonz]

VOTE: Doctor Drew

Bit disappointed I didn't get to policy lynch day one in a forty player game, but there's hopefully a bullet with Creature's name on it out there somewhere.

[The Fonz]

If the cult leader dies, cult loses right?

Does that mean all of the other players in the cult die too?

Does cult leader dies, cult loses? Didn’t actually know that. It’s been a very long time since I played with cult. Is that usually how it works? Shit. I’m rusty.

In a game like this I can’t imagine they’d all die too. It could immediately end game.

Did you ever hear about Egypt Mafia, Amrun?

I'm some way off being caught up in earnest, but I have more time this week so fuck it. Not got a strong SR on anyone yet mind.

Gamma, you're being silly re hider.

Dammit guys stop ninja ing me.

[The Fonz]

this TSE wagon is the fastest thing I've ever seen. Idk if that's just because of game size but there's like zero resistance as far as I can see.

OH HAI IIoA.

Got any opinions?

I'm not wild about the TSE wagon, seems a combo of policy lynching for something that's not policy lynch worthy and role weirdness.

Would like to see a fullclaim with everything in one post tho because the way everything is dribbling out here is not super conducive to assessing the claim properly.

[The Fonz]

Or to put it another way this seems like the kind of wagon as scum I'd criticise but not properly derail in order to scapegoat people on it later, which makes me think he's town (ironically I do not at present have a specific counterwagon in mind, so I guess I'm doing exactly what I'd do if I were scum. Meh).

[The Fonz]

Preliminary Reads List:
In spoilers because it's a bit large.

I'm not sure if the recruit would happen before hider, if it would then Zoraster can be full town for today. (Considering they weren't town read I might go ahead and do that anyways in future lists.)
Also, anyone want me to do another unofficial vote count?

Logically, hide before recruit, since kill before recruit otherwise you get the spectre of someone having an antitown WC having not spent a second of the game playing as an antitown.

[The Fonz]

Get out of my claimspace.

Are you a cop too?

I’ll take it back.y

Or i can just be your sidekick, if you want.

OK.. this could be Town!FL.. or it could equally be Scum!him.. it's NAI!

Try harder. I remember from the FL meta dig I did to sell the bus in that large normal that

what

FL claims can give insight to his thought process. And his claim in that game served his... our scummy interest.

[The Fonz]

Can we stop fucking trying to pretend that someone slipped because they said "If they're town, they're playing the claimed role suboptimally" but forgot to put an "assuming they're town" disclaimer in every other sentence? That's not how people talk. Trying to phrase your posts exactly so that no one could possibly think them slips is, if anything, summer. Ironic this happens to FL when he tries that line of attack all the time, but hey.

TSE took a role action D1 that benefited town where there's really clear scum benefit to keeping it quiet. The wagon today started off on a policy lynch kind of vibe, and seems to persist due to inertia.

I'm aware I need to pull my damn finger out and vote, I'll probably do so on Friday.

[The Fonz]

Who are your scum reads right now, mena?

papa leaf

I'd like to enquire about your product and/or service.

[The Fonz]

Right, I have a day off work and am attempting a 120 page catchup. Current thoughts are I am willing to lynch Elements or Titus, unwilling to lynch TSE, and have very little opinion at all on Vork.

[The Fonz]

Caught up to 215 THIS IS HAPPENING Y'ALL

[The Fonz]

Is anyone TRing TSE on play rather than on wagonomics?

I think I heard one or two people say he wouldn’t out his ability so early as scum, what’s the explanation there again?

There's big scum equity in being able to suddenly lynch people when town aren't expecting it.

On play, read that Titus post where she votes him for vote hopping, not reading, etc. His play might not be protown, but it's car crash not scum-favouring.

[The Fonz]

TSE executioner has LOADS of scum benefit. That’s a big reason I don’t think he is scum.

I agree that there's scum benefit, but I come down on the opposite side of whether or not him claiming it is a scumtell. I feel like it'd be wayyyyyy more suspect if he had hidden it. if that was me as scum I'd be waving that role around from the jump.

Right, but isn't it safer as scum to act like it was one shot? I feel like claiming a super powerful role that would be really likely to be culted if it were town is a pretty low equity move.

[The Fonz]

Anyway I'm still as fucking conflicted about the top three as ever.

Elements hasn't claimed right?

[The Fonz]

TSE executioner has LOADS of scum benefit. That’s a big reason I don’t think he is scum.

I agree that there's scum benefit, but I come down on the opposite side of whether or not him claiming it is a scumtell. I feel like it'd be wayyyyyy more suspect if he had hidden it. if that was me as scum I'd be waving that role around from the jump.

Right, but isn't it safer as scum to act like it was one shot? I feel like claiming a super powerful role that would be really likely to be culted if it were town is a pretty low equity move.

Nah it sets him up two be accused of cult if he stops using it.

Eh? I don't think *anyone* would be shocked by an ability like that being one shot, like Formerfish's.

[The Fonz]

UT- yeah, I think I'd just want the role proven and out of the way so I can just focus on dayplay.

Amrun, what's your actual read on Titus now?

[The Fonz]

Anyway I'm still as fucking conflicted about the top three as ever.

Elements hasn't claimed right?

No. Not that I’m aware.

Which, shit.

UNVOTE: elements

I want the day to end but that’s stupid. I just got frustrated.

I think that Elements is far enough over 1/2 that this unvote wouldn't matter.

Yes, but it at least tells TSE to wait for claim.

[The Fonz]

Fonz, what is your take on Titus? Are you caught up?

I'm caught up. I had a strong "this is town" reaction to the replacement request, saying that

scum

had figured out who she was, indeed I thought that phrasing a request to the mod like that somewhat pushed the limits of using the mod for in-game advantage. But her actions since, in particular not being willing or able to say who these scum she thinks have worked her out are, really make my head spin. She has shit for reads, but then unlike Elements or Vork, she... has reads.

Like I say, I'm conflicted. I'm getting strong "We're just lynching Elements for being a VI" vibes. And I literally cannot remember a single Vork post from the hundred odd pages I just read. I'd say that's scummy but his day one play fits with the idea that he's some kind of town role with odd mechanics. I'm going back and forth in my head an unpleasant amount, especially since what I think probably won't even matter.

[The Fonz]

Oh yeah this feels like scum Almost.

[The Fonz]

Bro Leaf, you're town reading TSE, Vork and Elements, right? Do you have similar levels of reservation about the Titus wagon or do you actually secretly like being ineffectual?

[The Fonz]

Bro Leaf, you're town reading TSE, Vork and Elements, right? Do you have similar levels of reservation about the Titus wagon or do you actually secretly like being ineffectual?

I’m not town reading Vorkuta, actually. I don’t have major reservations for Titus either.

Oh. Thought you had him town off the Governor stuff.

It's a bit weird that you think the top wagon is on a strong PR and yet are sitting on a vanity wagon.

[The Fonz]

Let's get the Elements claim already.

[The Fonz]

Lynch Elements. Elements flips scum. Lynch TSE for not executing. Then lynch Gamma for the lulz

If TSE doesn't execute some specified period of time before deadline (probably 36 hours) we need to lynch TSE, since he's either lied about his role or isn't cooperating with town.

Claim first tho.

[The Fonz]

Please, for the love of Cobble Pisskop, do no do a read through catchup where you comment on 2-3 posts on every page. You will literally have 700+ posts before you catch up, and probably 600 will have been superseded by events.

[The Fonz]

Moreover, the basis currently being given for voting TSE is that he will not execute his scumbuddy Elements

Disagree- the reason is that we cant let one person be the king of town for the whole game and decide who to lynch. He must be consistent or we have to remove him for being antitown.

I dont especially think he is scum, but if he wont play his role correctly and objectively, we are forced to remove him.

It's both. We would need to lynch him anyway because giving him a veto over the lynch is a nonstarter, but his refusal does make it more likely he's scum with Elements or can't actually execute today.

[The Fonz]

this is role madness in a 40p game and I have to believe there are SOME town killing roles out there, and TSE would be a much better vig target than he is a lynch target. I don't anticipate him flipping scum, really, but he is (particularly in this mood) fairly anti-town.

In my eyes, with the exception of deadline pressure, I don't think his power really ever should be used -- not just "leashed." Using it allows for more people to get to stay off our lynch of the day and even more importantly to avoid end-of-wagon pressure to get on it or give a reason why they're off it.

He should execute today at least to prove he isn't lying about it being ungated or scum with Elements.

[The Fonz]

this is role madness in a 40p game and I have to believe there are SOME town killing roles out there, and TSE would be a much better vig target than he is a lynch target. I don't anticipate him flipping scum, really, but he is (particularly in this mood) fairly anti-town.

In my eyes, with the exception of deadline pressure, I don't think his power really ever should be used -- not just "leashed." Using it allows for more people to get to stay off our lynch of the day and even more importantly to avoid end-of-wagon pressure to get on it or give a reason why they're off it.

This is what makes me think TSE's ability is a scum ability. Like the only positive effect it has for town is that it gets us lynches faster but then scum has the excuse 'well I didnt have time to join because execution.'

I don't think that's the problem you think it is. The counterfactual is 5-10 people piling on late in the day "Just to prevent no lynch," which isn't more informative.

[The Fonz]

Amrun, isn't Pine on your list?

NGL read complicated by all top suspects seemingly trying to lurk out their wagons.

[The Fonz]

I'm actually thinking there's a pretty good chance it's UT, Amrun. Why are you town reading him?

[The Fonz]

oh for sure. I don't want Amrun to claim, but I've been trying to figure out from a design standpoint where my name could have come from and I'm drawing a blank

Amrun said she geot given the name of one scumbag and five random names.

[The Fonz]

OK pros and cons of lynching:

Titus. Pros has really shit reads and is on Amrun's list. Cons is the only one actually scumhunting.
Elements. Pros hasn't scumhunted, vanished at a point where doing so really hurts the town. Cons feels like a VI default lynch.
Cork. Pros has lurked after being active in a less important part of the game. Hadn't scumhunted. People have noted meta tendency to lurk as scum, though he didn't in the recently completed haunted village I read. Cons has played his apparent role in a manner consistent with being town, terrible for a CR, and probably somewhat suboptimal for groupscum. Vork has also vanished but declared VLA so null.

VOTE: Elements[/I] I guess.

[The Fonz]

Shit. VOTE: Elements

[The Fonz]

OK pros and cons of lynching:

Titus. Pros has really shit reads and is on Amrun's list. Cons is the only one actually scumhunting.
Elements. Pros hasn't scumhunted, vanished at a point where doing so really hurts the town. Cons feels like a VI default lynch.
Cork. Pros has lurked after being active in a less important part of the game. Hadn't scumhunted. People have noted meta tendency to lurk as scum, though he didn't in the recently completed haunted village I read. Cons has played his apparent role in a manner consistent with being town, terrible for a CR, and probably somewhat suboptimal for groupscum. Vork has also vanished but declared VLA so null.

VOTE: Elements[/I] I guess.

Excuse me. I’m scum hunting! / ^:

Since when is your name Elements, Titus or V O R K (Damn phone keeps autocorrecting to Cork)?

[The Fonz]

I think Vork is inactive sitewide. On another note, since nailing him in EICN I have been in a streak of recognizing his scum game from day 1 every time he's rolled it against me. We haven't really gotten a day 1 to play with him. I can't really say this is the scum Vorkuta I know but he hasn't played so there's that grey area.

He's declared VLA. Nonetheless super frustrating there are maybe three somewhat viable wagons and none of them are here. Especially since this is the kind of game where "Lurk and hope a VI says something done that swings votes onto them" seems like a scum strategy particularly suited for this game.


TSE, I literally said their names at the start of each paragraph?

[The Fonz]

Claim. If it's something good we need time to decide on an alternative wagon.

[The Fonz]

Not today, at least. If you want to come after him tomorrow, sure.

I'm almost certain he's being pushed as bait by certain scummy people that some have already discussed and others I won't bring up at this time.

This elements push is one of the laziest ones I've seen in a while. Can anyone even bring up the thing he did that was actually scummy, or are y'all all riding the tone of what you remember of this game you've likely only read nearly 10% of and momentum of the wagon?

It's the things he hasn't done, ie anything whatsoever that looks town motivated.

[The Fonz]

I'm with Mena, all relevant flavor and abilities please.

unvote

since vig claims self resolve. I'll be offline at least the next four hours.

Don't direct him, less likely to get a unique kill.

[The Fonz]

Can someone tell me the case on Titus?

[The Fonz]

She can be a good person going through a shitty personal situation and still informed minority.

We probably shouldn't lynch her without a claim either unless forced by deadline.

@Rauth; maybe, but I feel like Vork is a mislynch. It is sadly basically an either or.

[The Fonz]

VOTE: titus

Shit/get off pot time. It's one or other.

[The Fonz]

I make it Vork 17, Titus 12.

6009 is pretty scummy. Also, get outta here suggesting I haven't done shit.

[The Fonz]

@Titus: Given your "Vork then Ceph" stance, which do you think is more likely, that Vork is scum and Cephrir is a buddy, or that Vork is town "whiteknighting" Vork for town cred?

[The Fonz]

Lol. Sorry, Ceph is whiteknighting Vork.

[The Fonz]

VOTE: ico

Chen, impending deadline with only Vork and Titus lynches viable. Get off your vanity wagon onto one of them, or claim scum.

[The Fonz]

the issue I have is that it takes away agency from town players. I'm not going to then potentially ask another town player to give up their agency. vote for whichever dueling wagon you want. Titus is higher and I scumread the slot so that's where I'd be voting if I had a choice. you do what you want though.

Reminder that pink ball is claimed 3p.

[The Fonz]

There are vote shenanigans, targeting Vork who is VLA, and probably an info role (random kill would be bastard, and random protect kinda screwy).

[The Fonz]

I'm not even sure when Vork went v/la. Kinda annoying that it wasn't announced or maybe it was and I missed it.

It was announced. Look, Titus is not the best lynch, but shhe's the best lynch available imho. Not a lot of love for what is basically "Lol I'm seeing associatives with Fonz and his town reads." I didn't like the TSE push, I don't like her claiming that TSE claiming that his execute ability kills the leading wagon is somehow something new he just made up rather than how he's been claiming it works all along.

[The Fonz]

Almost.

[The Fonz]

Almost.

As in A50?

Yes.

[The Fonz]

Almost.

As in A50?

Yes.

Have you cased/explained this and I missed it? I don’t want to distract but I am curious.

No. I'm very keen not to distract from the viable wagons by starting convos about others unless I think they're lock scum. I was in two minds about even naming another suspect. I tend to think that talking about people who aren't going to be lynched just helps scum plan ahead. I actually think LOATPs (lists of all the players) are antitown.

[The Fonz]

Hmm
Might scan Titus ISO
I think there’s a non zero chance she is the one screwing with votes, I recall her talking a big game about VCA

Titus' rep is that she does VCA like FL lies.

[The Fonz]

Really glad EP rolled DV so it didn't necessitate the "Book then No Lynch" strategy. Though as you will see, the dead thread were shutting ourselves that ML was going to steal his vote and win.

[The Fonz]

Reckon we could play an actual DND game in mish mash?

[The Fonz]

Enjoyed everyone being like "Drew was a terrible lynch" when ML did the same and was an antitown role.

[The Fonz]

I didn’t want to be converted Cult.
Does this count as a win or lose for me? I can’t tell.
I was Town who was converted the exact night I died.

Yeah it's normally considered good modding practice for people who are targeted by kills and cults the same night to die as town, since its super unfair to change someone's win condition in death to one they never played for.

[The Fonz]

I'm fine with releasing the Lover PT.

[The Fonz]

I guess the larger the game, the easier to rid yourselves of toxicity without game throwing.

[The Fonz]

PTs?