Monty Python's Mafia Circus Game Over

[Azimuth]

Vote: JordanA24

Have we started again?
*smack* Wagh!

[Azimuth]

I can't help but think that people who reveal their roles too eagerly should be attacked, first with bombs and rockets to destroy their homes, and then when they run helpless into the street, mow them down with machine guns. And then, of course, release the vultures.

I know these views aren't popular, but I have never thought of popularity.

[Azimuth]

In that case, do you prefer a guitar, castanets, a bowtie, or a motorbike? Or none of the above? More I dare not say, lest you do something awful to the player who guesses the exact role.

Also,

Dear Mod: It looks like you let DarlaBlueEyes change her vote even though she didn't unvote first.

Yes I've read rule 18, but perhaps this is further intended silliness (a la "Five!" "Three, sir..." "Three!")? No apologies please, just wondering.

[Azimuth]

I think I've figured out what Iron Man is trying to tell us (then again, I thought I'd figured it out before). However, I still have no idea why he would want to tell us and thus am wary of making the guess. I don't think guessing is rolefishing as JordanA24 suggested; I just wonder at IM's ulterior motives.

I also have nothing to sell PokerFace, whatever his motives may be. Others are free to do as they will.

I have no problem with things getting silly -- most of us likely joined this particular game to partake in some silliness -- although too many purely Python posts might make it easier for the nefarious elements in this game to hide. Still, since this is my first large game I will reserve judgment, so to speak.

[Azimuth]

Iron Man: The announcer is not unique to that sketch. I don't think I buy your claim. Why did you feel the need to make us guess it?

I believe him, since that was what I was going to guess. In post 19 he claims that SpyreX stole his line (And now for something completely different...), and a rough overlook indicates that the character's first appearance in the series was just after the llama sketch in that episode.

Still, I agree with your question. Why, Iron Man, did you want us to guess your role? Why even reveal it at all?

[Azimuth]

Well, this game is certainly fun to read (

Dear Mod:

I certainly enjoy the flavor as well, and it shouldn't be distracting as long as those who lurk or abandon the game are prodded and/or replaced in as reasonable a manner as is convenient), and all the notions of roles/PRs seem to hint at future fun as well. The main problem: I've no clue whom to vote.

My vote on JordanA24 was a random one, and apparently The Internet's was too. Then two others voted for him for not being silly, and that's how we got our vote leader. I know he's not in danger of getting lynched anytime soon, so I don't feel like I

have

to vote someone else, but...I worry that I am not doing enough to move the game along. Maybe I still need to get used to the fact that large games take longer, and remember that the book I love the most has many, many pages.

That said, I hope those who are currently not posting "game content" (Bogre, Luigi, chenhsi, others?) will begin to do so. Even if it's mild stuff like what I'm doing, at least that's something.

[Azimuth]

I am now faced with some choices. Because I would say that it is more suspicious to play Confuse-A-Cat than to be the poor confused cat, I therefore...

Unvote
Vote: Luigi Gangsta

Also, at the risk of seeming to be against silliness, I would say that only those who are required to should continue to call people Bruce, lest I become too much like that cat.

[Azimuth]

Just wanted to say that I'm definitely not lurking; I just took a day off, and it has taken me much of today trying to catch up. You will find that I enjoy taking a day off now and then, but whew! Who knew there'd be a posting avalanche the same day?

Unvote

first, because Luigi has explained himself adequately for now.

Regarding our purported French Taunters: if one is lying and one is not, I suppose I am more inclined to believe SpyreX because his explanation of his role seems more complete, plus the constant breadcrumbing followed by an unsolicited role/PR reveal on the part of DarlaBlueEyes seems a little too contrived. Why bother to reveal that much at all? Certainly there was not much suspicion of DBE before.

I suppose it is possible that all of this was staged, and they are both mafia, using this as a way to distance one from the other. In that case DBE would still make a good lynch choice, though for now I don't want to put her at L-2 in case there is disagreement from others.

If, however, neither of them are mafia, and our moderator has simply given them the same role in a fit of mischief, it might be appropriate to say, "You bastardmod! You vicious, heartless bastardmod! Look what you've done to them!" I would never say something like that, though...

I don't like what chenhsi is doing either. I could easily place a vote for him if he doesn't start doing something constructive. Probably goes for killa seven too, though he is newer.

Also, JordanA24 has seemed to "Run awayyyy!" from this game; I would think he's been at least prodded by now?

Meanwhile, I will have much work to do elsewhere for six days beginning Monday; I may still be able to post minimally, but no long essays from me. Since this game is large, I will try extra hard to keep up with reading it so that I won't take all of next weekend catching up.

[Azimuth]

Checking in quickly (on a break):

I am not in favor of forcing a modkill or anything along that line.

I am not interested in telling SpyreX how to do a night action or learning more about it at this time.

Why would i fake claim on day one with 2 votes on me?

Why claim at all, fake or otherwise? Your argument seems to be that it doesn't make sense if you are mafia, but it doesn't make sense if you are town either. You don't seem to be addressing questions posed to you and have taken a defeatist attitude; if you actually are town then you are doing us a disservice.

I may not like some of Iron Man and Luigi's actions and (chenhsi and killa seven's lack thereof), but it is getting difficult to keep my vote off DBE, whether IM ever shows up to explain himself or not.

Back to work; will continue reading and may post again if needed, but not much.

[Azimuth]

Also still here, still reading, still waiting for IM, still three days until my busy time ends.

[Azimuth]

Yowza, four pages in one day? I can't post substantially now but I am here and should have more time tonight.

No bridgekeeper that I know of, whatever that means (is it from Holy Grail?)

[Azimuth]

Okay, I've caught up. Quick thoughts before bed:

1. We lost the cop? Ouch. And there's probably a cult? Double ouch.

2. So, is the going consensus that we have (well,

had

) two French Taunters? And we lynched DBE because we thought she was lying, but she wasn't...and was mafia regardless? What exactly

is

a role attractor, anyway? I couldn't find it in wiki. Is it possible that she "attracted" SpyreX's role away from him, so that she became the FT and now he is...something else? My head is spinning.

3. I don't like Iron Man's disappearance, but is the main suspicion on him based on his attempts to reveal his role? Because it seems like several people are trying to reveal things today, and some folks were also trying to reveal things yesterday. Will a role reveal generally appear mafia-esque to folks?

4. Along those lines, I have to say I'm a bit perturbed by people who say that they will reveal something later on but can't right now. What could you be waiting for, especially since now you've announced it most folks might just be waiting for you? If it hurts the town to reveal it now, then why mention it at all?

5. Right now killa seven and chenhsi appear to be worse than useless with their play style, particularly the latter. I know it's not very pro-town to say so, but I might easily be persuaded to help lynch them just to remove the distraction from this game. Also:

Dear Mod, may we also prod JordanA24?

It has been

ten days

since he posted anything here.

Informal prod has been sent

6. I know this is supposed to be a long game, and frivolous conversation can help keep things fun, but please no more triple-posting in a row, if you love us.

Six seems like enough for now. I'm going to rest.

[Azimuth]

Okay, another I'm-caught-up update from me.

1. I don't quite understand JordanA24's question for me in 712. I think he's asking why I would be against forcing a modkill. For me the question is backwards; I've no idea why I would be *for* forcing a modkill.

2. Concerning SpyreX, for me it's not about "is he lying or telling the truth" about the bridgekeeper as (and this will become a familiar theme) "why did he bring it up in the first place?" What was he hoping to accomplish by mentioning what happened to him last night, and how specifically did he think it might help the town? More importantly, did he accomplish what he hoped to accomplish?
I ask all this completely separately from the question why he had to ask whether anyone else had been visited by the bridgekeeper before revealing what he revealed. What would he have done if someone else had said they'd received such a visit? He said in 715 that "If Ironman claims he was visited by the bridgekeeper, hang him," which implies that he wouldn't have believed anyone if they had claimed such a thing, but why not? If he would have us believe that there are two French Taunters in the game, why not two bridgekeepers or whatever?
I would like SpyreX to provide answers to these many questions, as specifically as possible. (He may have implied answers before, but that's not the same thing.) Only then can I make a informed decision about whether he is telling the truth or not, and what it means.

3. Regarding strappado, asking who a character is (as she did in 726) is not particularly suspicious to me, but mentioning that she knows that character is in the game (as she did in 729) is far more sketchy -- especially because she avoided answering any questions about it for quite a while before finally settling on "That would involve revealing my role." She has explained why she made post 726, but she has not explained why she said what she said in post 729. If she truly wanted to hide her role, there were numerous plausible answers she could have given ("I'm just curious" springs to mind) that would never have led to role speculation at all. So I will ask the question again -- "why bring it up in the first place?"

4. PokerFace, please feel free not to reveal any further information if you think it would be harmful for now. For the record, I hold killa seven more responsible than you, since he seems to have brought it up first.

5. I couldn't agree with Muerrto and Lord Gurgi more. None of this makes any sense, and if everyone who didn't make sense were mafia we'd all have been endgamed by now. I suppose it's nice to have something to talk about, but we have enough claims for today (and maybe tomorrow), and I don't see how it helps in any way.

[Azimuth]

I'm posting because I feel I should post something, but I'm not really sure what to say. (Yuck, I sound like chenhsi.) Forgive me if my thoughts seem disorganized.

Obviously some people have revealed quite a bit of information about their roles and night choices. I may be puzzled as to why people chose to reveal, but like it or not the information is out there. Information can be good, but how are we going to turn that information into making a lynch choice? How do I really know whether a bridgekeeper, or a bishop, or a machine that goes "bing" is pro-town or anti-town, at least for the purposes of this game? How do I reconcile the fact that one French Taunter was mafia, but another French Taunter is claiming to be town? It seems that every single player could tell the truth about their roles and actions and I still might not know whom to vote for.

I have to believe that at least some of those who have revealed themselves did so because they thought they would be able to catch mafia, and maybe some of them think they have done so, but I don't quite see it for now -- possibly because I still don't have all the information that they do. I don't want to fish for more information, though; at least a few folks around here should keep their ways mysterious.

The only possible thing that I can think of is that Iron Man's ability (giving someone else's night choice a random target, if I have that correctly) seems quite chaotic, and not one that could be used effectively in any pro-town capacity. But does that mean he's mafia?

I'm glad SpyreX at least tried to answer my questions (posed in post 799); I don't think strappado tried to answer them, but I may have to double-check. So, for now I'm torn between IM and strap, though chenhsi still doesn't strike me as particularly useful.

[Azimuth]

Just chiming in to say that I was quite close to placing a vote on Iron Man too, mainly because his ability doesn't seem to be pro-town (but also for the other reasons -- lurking, possible contradiction, etc.). With the recent flurry of votes I will hold off for now to give him one last chance to respond, but even I will not wait an eternity.

[Azimuth]

Since Lord Gurgi used his rare opportunity of verbosity to talk about me, it is only fair to address his suspicions.

I can't help but think that people who reveal their roles too eagerly should be attacked, first with bombs and rockets to destroy their homes, and then when they run helpless into the street, mow them down with machine guns. And then, of course, release the vultures.
I know these views aren't popular, but I have never thought of popularity.

In that case, do you prefer a guitar, castanets, a bowtie, or a motorbike? Or none of the above? More I dare not say, lest you do something awful to the player who guesses the exact role.

These posts worry me, especially considering that there is only one post between them, in which time he changed his position quite dramatically.

In the beginning, I was more whimsical than I am now. I wanted to find a way to throw in a favorite Python quote of mine, and I was also excited about testing my trivia prowess regarding Iron Man. If I remember correctly, others were curious too before we realized the implications. It was all a long time ago, in the early stages.

1. We lost the cop? Ouch. And there's probably a cult? Double ouch.

Complaining about a bad night is traditionally a scum tell.

You do have a point here; I even wondered whether someone might think it was suspicious when I included it. However, such notions are largely circumstantial. One might as easily be "suspicious" of LG's post 948, in which he expresses joy about lynching mafia when he thought IM was admitting to it. Sometimes we express feelings because it's how we feel, not because we're trying to look a certain way.

I notice that he has never done any scum hunting of his own, only followed what the town has been saying and asking an occasional question. This makes me lean to the scum side.

I don't quite agree with this characterization; how is asking questions not hunting? It's true that most topics weren't started by me, mainly because nothing happened to me overnight -- unlike, apparently, many others -- and I was mostly trying to catch up with the posts of those others and make sense of them. There are only so many topics that can be brought up, after all; I'm not going to invent some new crazy topic just to satisfy someone else's idea of hunting.

As a side note, I find that someone who is not voting for someone by the end of the day to be quite scummy.

Is that based on actual experience, or just a particular preference of yours? I definitely have not seen that to be the case, especially on days where a townie is lynched. For my part, both days we were waiting for IM to say something; on Day 1 killa seven quickhammered before it even happened, and on Day 2 someone else (farside?) put the hammer soon after IM's reply, before I had a chance to return and read it. I'm not going to place some random vote late in the day just to appease someone else's idea of appearing town.

I hope this helps address your suspicions. I agree that I have not posted a lot in this game -- certainly not compared to Mirth -- and perhaps this helps people become suspicious of me. I myself admit to being suspicious of some people who have not posted a lot. Now that Mirth is gone, it will be a lot harder for people to "hide," whether they have been meaning to or not. I won't start posting every fifteen minutes, and I will certainly never make three posts in a row, but I will endeavor to contribute more.

For now I will say that recently I have been most suspicious of JordanA24; I will be interested to see how imaginality plays that role and whether it negates or confirms my suspicions.

[Azimuth]

Well, farside22, I'm certainly confused, in that I don't know quite how to respond to most of your post. You've shown, I guess, that it's possible to go through someone else's posts and choose the most suspicious interpretations for each one, with no regard to context or meaning. I suppose I can make a few general points, just in case they address something:

--I've already explained that I was more whimsical early in the game. What's the point of defending oneself if people don't read the defenses?
--This is now the second game I've been in where avoiding an L-2 situation is being pushed as some sort of mafia tell. Can anyone explain this at all?
--I singled out killa seven and chenhsi as "worse than useless" because they weren't just lurking; they were in fact more active than others but seemed to be deliberately refraining from posting anything of substance. I should say that farside22 points this out without giving any explanation why it makes her suspicious of me.
--In fact, several accusations seem vague. I'm talking about other people? Well, she's got me there; I certainly was talking about other people. If she could be more clear as to why she thinks certain things are suspicious, I could probably do a better job of explaining them.

The last one I will have to quote:

Post 16 quote:

I definitely have not seen that to be the case, especially on days where a townie is lynched

. I laughed at this as only one townie was lynched thus far, but he stayed away from the scum wagon as well. I felt he missed LG point on purpose.

I think it was fairly clear that LG and I were talking about "not voting=mafia" as a general notion, pertaining to more than just this one game. Why farside22 should pretend that I was only referring to this game is beyond me; it seems a little too deliberate of a misinterpretation on her part. Plus, if she thinks I missed LG's point (I don't think I did) she should please explain what she thought it was.
**********

Beyond that, I have a general observation to make. It seems that so far in this game we've made both of our lynches on false pretenses: we thought both DBE and IM were lying, only to find out that they were more or less telling the truth. Plus, one of them was mafia anyway, so even telling the truth about one's role is not necessarily a town tell. I think that making lynch decisions based on the specific roles of this game is something we should set aside for now, if we can. Discussing specific actions or occurrences, like why one person died last night instead of two or what (if anything) killa seven's revelation in post 1002 might signify, might be a better foundation for today. What do you all think?

I hope to have more specific thoughts on a few players later today or maybe tomorrow.

[Azimuth]

Obviously I wasn't able to post my further thoughts yesterday, and I won't be able to today either. (Just in case anyone was actually waiting for something; I mean, it's not as though I will have anything breathtakingly enlightening to offer, just a few notions.)

The weekend should be less busy for me, but little by little I'm learning not to make specific promises regarding future posting. I can say that my next post will come sometime after 24 hours but definitely before 2000 years.

[Azimuth]

Just wanted to say that I'm still here. I know imaginality and PokerFace have asked questions of me (maybe others too?); I'm not ignoring them but I had to deal with another game and now must go to bed. Sorry.

Please no quicklynches this week, even if it's chenhsi; I know we don't have to take all five weeks but no reason to hurry either. Thankfully no one else has adopted Mirth's posting rate, or I don't know when I would be able to catch up fully.

[Azimuth]

Things are busy lately; I don't have time today to post in depth, but with PokerFace so insistent I can answer his one question, which was already half answered anyway. (If there were other questions from him somewhere else I missed them.)

@Azimuth,

you said these earlier

I can't help but think that people who reveal their roles too eagerly should be attacked, first with bombs and rockets to destroy their homes, and then when they run helpless into the street, mow them down with machine guns. And then, of course, release the vultures.

I know these views aren't popular, but I have never thought of popularity.

I have to believe that at least some of those who have revealed themselves did so because they thought they would be able to catch mafia, and maybe some of them think they have done so, but I don't quite see it for now -- possibly because I still don't have all the information that they do. I don't want to fish for more information, though; at least a few folks around here should keep their ways mysterious.

Why the change in heart on those with restrictions? I got no problem with anything else from you I'm just wondering what particular game elements led to a change in yelling at those who wanted to say things too accepting it.

You are now the third person who has taken that post way too seriously. I've explained this before: it was (I believe) my second post in the game, in the first few days of the game, and most of it was a verbatim Python quote. While it's true I was puzzled by some of the early role revelations, the notion that the post could be viewed as some sort of serious, hard-cutting analysis is baffling to me. I certainly wasn't "yelling," anyway.

As for the second post, I don't view it as a change of heart. I'm basically saying that even if people revealed themselves because they thought it would help, I don't think they succeeded. I allowed that maybe it was because I don't have all the information, but since I don't want to fish for more info, the notion is moot. As such, I don't consider that post to be "accepting" of the revelations. From my point of view, I don't feel helped by them...at least for now.

More to come some other time (including answering imaginality), but things are busy in my life so please don't hold your breath. If I truly disappear for 72 hours that will be one thing, but otherwise we don't need a reminder every few hours regarding who has responded to whom.

[Azimuth]

Okay, here are my thoughts. I will begin with three suspects.

killa seven: He is at the top because his “revelation” in post 904 led directly to the lynch of a town player. Obviously there must have been an alternate explanation for why his Night 1 action went through, but his terse style left no room for other possibilities. I also don’t like how he basically forced PokerFace and strappado out into the open with his first post on Day 2, or how he hammered DBE while there were still discussions going on in Day 1. Beyond that, his short posts have been largely unhelpful almost to the level of chenhsi. Whatever the intentions might have been, I believe his in-game actions have caused the most harm to the town so far, and his style of play has not helped. He deserves a chance to explain himself, but to mark my suspicions...

Vote: killa seven

Now to JordanA24. I don’t have a lot on him, mainly because he did not post a lot; nine posts in the first two game days, only five with any real content. He caught my attention because it seemed he would pop in, throw around a bunch of suspicion in several directions, then disappear again. (See post 477 as an example of this.) I suppose he showed up more on my radar when he asked me a bizarre question about modkills, viewing them as a “free lynch.” That’s all I have to say for now, other than that I have not found imaginality to be overly suspicious in his place...yet.

Finally, strappado. I guess I’m surprised she has not attracted more suspicion today considering Day 1 and Day 2. At least we know why Mirth was so upset when strappado revealed Mr. Vibrating as a character in the game, which I still find to have been completely unnecessary. No one would call her a lurker since she has made so many posts, but a significant percentage have been devoid of content. I don’t suppose I need to give examples, but I bet 993 would have leapt out even if it hadn’t been about me. Was any part of that post meant to be enlightening or even helpful? Beyond that, she was quick to put Iron Man at L-2 after K7's “revelation,” she started and is pushing the almost-too-easy chenhsi bandwagon at this point, and she even listed me as a suspect out of the blue after others had done the same, only with no explanation whatsoever. I think she deserves more attention.

******************

Now, other thoughts.

Regarding chenhsi: at first he was not in my top three because I did not see any direct mafia tells, but now I realize that he is deliberately not contributing any tells to the game at all. I suppose now the only reason he isn’t in my top three is some wariness at the quickness of today’s bandwagon (and some of the people who are on it), but I agree that he is certainly not helping the town at all. Call him a close fourth place.

PokerFace, I will have to reread your posts again. Not to look for alignment clues, but to try to understand some of your theories. I know you’ve been through a lot, flavor- and night-wise, but sometimes I don’t know how you have reached some of your conclusions. I think I disagree with some of them, but is that because I don’t understand them? Or is it the other way around: perhaps I only think I don’t understand them because I disagree with them? One example would be your rationale why you think K7 is town in post 985. (For what it’s worth, I don’t think that killa seven’s alignment necessarily reflects on PokerFace’s; if K7 is ever shown to be mafia, I wouldn’t conclude the same for PF and I’m not sure why anyone would.) Like I said, I will do some re-reading of your posts to see if they make better sense this time around, but for now I would like to ask one question. In posts 1120 and 1123, you talked about how “scum [potentially could have] killed and blocked two skills.” I’m wondering which two blocks you are talking about (I only see references to the possible block of Iron Man in your previous posts) and, more importantly, why you think “scum” must have done the blocking. Sorry if this is explained in the game elsewhere or if I’m misunderstanding you, but can you clarify that statement?

Lord Gurgi and farside22 seem overly chummy today; if I understand them correctly, each seems sure that the other is town. I wonder how they can be so sure. I did notice that both of them continued to list me as a suspect after I addressed their suspicions. If they think I did not address them adequately, I guess I’d like to know specifically why.

Regarding what Luigi’s death signifies: I guess I initially thought that he was the victim of a vigilante, since he seemed so suspicious on Day 1. I’m not sure, but I thought someone had brought up that possibility; can’t remember who. I suppose that there could be a SK or even a “killing cult” (not that I’ve ever experienced the latter), but that would mean a killer may have been blocked last night. Perhaps this is about as far as speculation can go without fishing for more roles; I suppose the number of deaths on Night 3 may help sort some of this out.

******************

Now to respond, at long last, to imaginality’s post 1050:

I notice that he has never done any scum hunting of his own, only followed what the town has been saying and asking an occasional question. This makes me lean to the scum side.

I don't quite agree with this characterization; how is asking questions not hunting? It's true that most topics weren't started by me, mainly because nothing happened to me overnight -- unlike, apparently, many others -- and I was mostly trying to catch up with the posts of those others and make sense of them. There are only so many topics that can be brought up, after all; I'm not going to invent some new crazy topic just to satisfy someone else's idea of hunting.

That answer is a bit evasive. You don't have to 'invent some crazy new topic', you can further the scumhunt by offering insights, arguments and suggestions (and yes, questions) on the main issues, rather than simply summarise and agree with what's already been said.

I guess that’s part of my point: for the most part I think I’ve done that. Certainly I didn’t just “summarise and agree with what's already been said.” I would highlight the points that stood out to me and give my opinion on them. I’m just wary of this meme that I am somehow not contributing, or even that I am “lurking,” which could not be further from the truth. Posting every two or three days isn’t considered lurking in most games; just because a handful of people have inflated their post count almost beyond measure doesn’t mean that the rest of us are hiding.

I also didn't much like your posts during Day 2 where you said:

The only possible thing that I can think of is that Iron Man's ability (giving someone else's night choice a random target, if I have that correctly) seems quite chaotic, and not one that could be used effectively in any pro-town capacity. But does that mean he's mafia?

and

Just chiming in to say that I was quite close to placing a vote on Iron Man too, mainly because his ability doesn't seem to be pro-town (but also for the other reasons -- lurking, possible contradiction, etc.)

because I think it is pretty clear that in a Monty Python theme game, there are going to be at least a few roles capable of creating chaos and confusion, and there's no reason to assume that such a role would be given to a scum player rather than a townie. So you giving that as your main reason for (almost) voting Iron Man doesn't sit well with me.

I don’t know; I still think it was as good a reason as any, although because of it I’ve now soured on the notion of making lynches based on roles (as I mentioned at the end of my post 1006). Beyond that, it’s pretty easy to criticize one’s reasons for suspecting a revealed town player now that we all have the benefit of hindsight.

And then there's the not voting thing that Lord Gurgi mentioned, which on Day 2 does look bad: by saying you're suspicious of Iron Man but not going to the extent of putting a vote on him, you conveniently look good whether he turns up scum ("See, I said he was suspicious") or town ("See, I didn't vote him").

Well, if I were claiming to be town based on my not voting Iron Man, I suppose you’d have a point, but I’m not. If you actually looked at that part of the game, you would see that at least four players (farside22, PokerFace, SpyreX, and I) were talking about voting Iron Man. Only one of us could actually hammer; does that mean the other three have to be suspicious?

That’s the problem with the “mafia might do this because of Reason X” argument, especially if a town player might do the exact same thing for Reason Y. It’s misleading if you don’t actually look at the game and see what really happened.

That will have to be enough for now, since I refuse to deprive myself of sleep for this game. (For watching the Olympics, maybe - - but not for this game.)

<Boooo

[Azimuth]

Sad to see that we still haven't heard from killa seven.

If chenhsi doesn't post significantly soon after he's back from "camp," I agree that some action must be taken. Still, I would prefer prodding/replacement (preferably the latter) to lynching, at least for now.

As far as you, Azimuth, prior to putting you on my scum list, I did make it known that I was getting suspicious of you, so it did not "come out of nowhere" and if you'd note it, my list came before everyone elses, so you can swallow that argument.

Although her suspicion of me is not highest on the list of reasons that I am suspicious of her, the fact must be pointed out that strappado did not mention my name until post 987, after at least two players had already voiced suspicions. Even then, she had only said she wanted to hear more from me; I didn't make her official list of suspects until four players had asked me questions (unless the enlightening post 993 was meant to be an announcement of suspicion). I maintain that she jumped on a suspect bandwagon, especially if I am truly the only person she really suspects besides chenhsi.

Speaking of which, she seems far too desperate to lynch chenhsi, even to the point of insulting players who are not voting for him. I understand her frustrations about chenhsi, but there is no call for names.

I think I remember arguing with Muerrto once when we were both townies, but I may have blocked the details from memory. Maybe it was just a dream....

[Azimuth]

I'm with strappado on this one. I'd much rather see chenhsi actually join the game (or if that's impossible, request to be replaced) than just claim. Will anyone's opinion be swayed by learning yet another role anyway? (P.S., strap: your seemingly desperate tactics were the issue, not anyone's feelings.)

Not thrilled by killa seven's latest "contribution." My vote stays.

[Azimuth]

I realized I haven't posted in more than three days. Sorry about that.

The Lord Gurgi thing was interesting to read, and I guess we learned some more details about his restriction, but we're basically in the same situation as before. I still think that people can be anti-town even if they are telling the complete truth about their role, so I remain wary of lynch choices based on role information. As such, I'm not sure I could be swayed by any video chenhsi might post (not that I'm even expecting him to).

In my mind both chenhsi and killa seven are playing the same minimalist, mostly unhelpful style; the difference remains that K7 actually did something that led to a townie lynch -- i.e., hurt the town -- while chenhsi did not. I've no interest in defending chenhsi, who almost seems to want to be lynched, but that's a key reason why my vote is still on killa seven. Not trying to be difficult, just going by the only Judgment I can trust: mine.

[Azimuth]

I have no wisdom to offer regarding tobacco or Hungarian.

So, two French Taunters after all, one town and one mafia? Our mod is close to being naughty in my sight.

As soon as chenhsi came up mafia I wondered whether someone might go after whoever didn't vote for him. Frankly, if I were mafia and had a partner as useless as he was I'd make darn sure I was on his bandwagon by the end of the day, but that goes into WIFOM, of course.

I suppose one idea might be to go back and see who was especially distressed by chenhsi's play style early on; that might be an indication of partnership, if a weak one.

BTW, farside22: why do you say I "never voted for the scum either day"? Do you know for sure that killa seven is town? How? I'm still wondering about him, among others I've mentioned.

[Azimuth]

Well, after looking at the first part of the game, it seems that Mirth and SpyreX were the first ones to call attention to chenhsi, then several people got in on the act. (So much for that idea.) I did notice that killa seven threw out a vote against chen with no further comment, but since I already suspect him I may have been biased towards finding it.

@farside22: I only "tried" to clarify your potentially misleading description of the situation, and I succeeded.

[Azimuth]

So, did nobody look at SpyreX last night? I agree with PokerFace; it's possible a killer was his target and that's how he died. We seem to have a few tracking or tracking-related roles; I'd especially like to know whether killa seven sent someone after SpyreX.

Lord Gurgi, I know you can't say much in your restricted posts, but most of your "previous reasons" for wanting to lynch me were refuted. If you hang on to them without further explanation, I will have to wonder why.

strappado has it backwards: I wasn't suspicious of her because she pushed hard on chenhsi; rather, I was suspicious of the chenhsi push because she was doing it. My suspicions of her were based on Days 1 and 2, for much of the same reasons Mirth had before she was bumped off.

I will repeat that the whole "let's lynch whoever didn't vote for chenhsi" argument is weak, as most vote-related arguments are. So all five people who weren't on the wagon must be mafia? I still think it's at least as likely that someone realized chenhsi was useless and decided to get rid of him to gain "cred."

PokerFace, I'm not going to offer you tobacco if I have none to offer, even if you claim that it will do something great for the town. As far as I can tell the only person who ever tried to offer you tobacco is dead now. Maybe you really have noble intentions, but the rest of us can't know that.

I'd also like to point out that in addition to at least one more mafia member, we may also have a cult that is four members strong by now. I will be more suspicious of people who pop out of nowhere to "agree" without much input of their own (hello Mr. Ninja).

Still, much of my focus is still on killa seven, at least until he decides to make contributions to the game beyond a terse, unhelpful post whenever he gets prodded. Whom did he target last night, and whom did he want that person to track (or "watch" or whatever)?

[Azimuth]

Is there any way of knowing if Spyrex died because he was targetted or because he targetted a scum, drawing their kill? Is there any use speculating, or is it something we can't know?

We probably can't know for sure, but if we get a lead it might open a more tangible line of investigation.

I also realize that I just asked for information from someone I don't quite trust (killa seven). Still, much of my distrust stems from his seeming unhelpfulness; if he provides info that actually helps, my suspicions might change. If, of course, his "info" leads to a townie lynch yet again, my suspicion could solidify. So either way, I think it's a good idea to hear from him.

[Azimuth]

I'm not a fan of mass claiming. It would give lots of information to the anti-town forces, and so far the exposed roles haven't really illuminated the game for the town. Sure, we got DBE, but I think it was mainly because we mistakenly believed that there couldn't be two French Taunters. Those roles were not indicative of alignment, so I'm not sure that any role would obviously lead to cult leader. For example, I certainly would not have deduced that "Bruce," an Australian philosophy professor, could be a cop. So, I'm voting

Against massclaim

for now.

Regarding elvis_knits, only she can decide whether her claim might help the town, but if she has truly been blocked the past two nights I don't know how much information she can share. I will say that I have not been involved with her the past 2 nights, nor with Muerrto last night.

Lord Gurgi, my refutations were more than you described, but whatever; I know you can't elaborate.

PokerFace: mafia can have actions in addition to killing. I've played a mafia role on this site where I could both investigate someone and kill someone else each night. So, the legitimacy of killa seven's action does not clear him alignment-wise. In fact, that's true for everyone, not just K7.

I think imaginality raises an interesting point: is it better to go after a cult member than mafia today? I'm trying to figure the math. Let's say we currently have 4 cult out of 11 players. If we successfully lynch mafia, then the cult might increase to 5 overnight. If there are no mafia left and no one is killed, that's 5/10 who are cult, but if there is another mafia and that person kills someone, that could make it 5/9 and the game would be over. On the other hand, if we successfully lynch a cult member, then a nightkill and successful recruit would make it 4/9. That sounds better, but if we repeat it then it's 4/7 the day after and the game is over again. Goodness, is there any way to avoid a cult victory (if one exists)?

While my head is spinning about cults, what does it matter whether cult members know who the recruiter is? If they know everyone in the cult, then a potentially un-recruited cult member could still have "spilled the beans" and at least narrowed the search down. I guess that (along with the paragraph above) is why I hope the whole cult thing is a red herring, though I can't logically discount the possibility. Oich, who knew Monty Python could be this stressful?

[Azimuth]

@elvis_knits, are you required to kill someone (or target them for killing) every night, or do you have the option of killing nobody?

[Azimuth]

I have the option of killing every night. It is not required.

In that case, if I were you I would not try to kill anyone else, if it doesn't fit the win condition. I would even be suspicious of anyone who tried to get you to kill someone as a "vig"; you have no real reason to trust most of us, I imagine.

I suppose I can't expect you not to try to kill farside22, although since she revealed herself yesterday I wonder why you didn't try to kill her last night instead of Muerrto.

Another troubling thought: someone with your capabilities would be quite attractive to a cult recruiter, assuming you haven't been recruited already.

[Azimuth]

Why are you so hung up on the cult Azimuth?

The cult is

among

the things I am mentioning because, if it exists, it poses a more immediate threat than the mafia. Why are you against talking about the possibility of a cult? Is there a reason you wish to keep it out of the conversation? Further, why do you single me out as someone "hung up" on the cult, since I'm hardly the only one talking about it and it's hardly the only thing I'm talking about?

Azimuth is dropping so many scum tells. It is ridiculous.

And how convenient that you can't list them because of your restriction, beyond hanging on to the weak arguments you made oh so long ago. You certainly seem "hung up" on me; I'm beginning to suspect why.

@strappado: I imagine the cult (if it exists) isn't stupid. From the moment elvis_knits typed the words "use me as a vig" that particular cat was out of the bag. I brought it up because I'm conflicted about the wisdom of keeping her alive much longer...hence "troubling." I'd like to hear her answer about her Night 3 choice before saying much more about it.

[Azimuth]

I'm not sure I am attractive to a cult recruiter now since the town might decide that I shouldn't even submit a kill. If that happens, I am not helpful to a cult. And if I kill when I'm not supposed to, I will probably be lynched, so that's not what a cult wants either. I'd also argue that if I was already culted, I would not have claimed like this.
I also don't know if I am recruitable or not. I know from elemental mafia that not all roles are always recruitable. Though in this game, all roles may be recruitable. I don't know.

Yes, there is much mystery regarding your role. As for "why" you claimed, you've sort of admitted that it was because you wanted to be kept alive, yes? And the reveal also implies that you would rather we keep farside22 alive as well, true? That makes two people suddenly "unlynchable" if we are to trust everything you say. Let's just say I've seen people claim for lesser reasons.

But whether you are cult or not, or even recruitable or not, I maintain that it is bad for the town for you to attempt any more nightkilling as a "vig," at least until the cult possibility gets sorted out. Even if you successfully hit mafia, you reduce the number of players that much more and make it that much easier for the theoretical (I'm not going to say "theoretical" every time, just know it's implied) cult to gain a majority. As others have pointed out, we may be at LYLO on that front as it is.

I don't think lynching you is the right choice today, but from now on if I ever see that there is a second NK that doesn't involve farside22 (or some other demonstrable member of the wedding party, I guess), I will support the idea of lynching you the next day, if it's not already too late.

(BTW, I see that Muerrto would want to lynch you if farside22 dies, which I don't quite understand.

Muerrto

, can you clarify? It would seem to me that she would be the only allowable NK for elvis_knits at this point. Is it just that you don't want EK to kill anyone?)

I don't see the problem with elvis_knits acting as a vig for the town (if we trust her to do so). Especially if we have a cult, the added chances of killing cult leader maybe outweigh the risks of killing a townie. At the very least it's worth considering rather than dismissing too quickly. Your post reads kinda like a pre-emptive "don't trust them if they tell you to vig me"...

In my second paragraph above I explain why EK killing anyone outside the cult could be bad for the town. It's more like "don't trust

anyone

if they tell you to vig

anyone

," and I would add that I don't fully trust her judgment or motives regarding "vigging" either, especially if she killed Luigi. As for the last part: if a significant number of people wanted EK to vig me, you'd think they would just try to lynch me instead. It would be more efficient and frankly less suspicious.

BTW, imaginality, are you now considered a permanent replacement for JordanA24?

Mod, should I be asking you this instead?

yes imaginality has permenantly taken on Jordan's role, forgot to make the announcement

I hesitate to lay these next cards on the table, but here goes: since I agree that at least trying to lynch the cult recruiter is "the thing to do" for today, with lynching any cult member as an acceptable alternative for me, I would focus on farside22 and Lord Gurgi, who have been acting overly chummy since at least Day 2. With LG going after people for talking about the cult, making superficial attacks while hiding behind a restriction, and even accusing Muerrto of being the recruiter out of the blue, I get the notion that any of several lynches would be okay for him, which is consistent with that of a cult member. With farside22 as the other possibility, EK's claim presents problems. I guess it depends on whether we care whether EK wins, and also whether we really trust her motives behind not wanting farside to be lynched. Still, LG's superficial aggressiveness make him more likely than farside to be a recruiter (though it could be someone else).

For all of this, I may as well mark my current suspicions. I don't think he's mafia, but he may represent a bigger threat. Frankly, if he is lynched and not revealed to be in a cult, I would feel more confident that there is not one.

Vote: Lord Gurgi

Fully expecting another small post mentioning OMGUS, but can't be helped.

[Azimuth]

Lord Gurgi, you're annoyed because

one

person is voting for you in a game? I find that hard to believe. It's almost as if you expect me to apologize for calling a weak argument weak...very strange. And, as I've already pointed out, I responded to your arguments with more than "I disagree." Let's look at those before I move on to other points:

Further: You had no problem at all with my suspicion of you...

Well, I had a "problem" in that I knew it was wrongly placed, but there's nothing wrong with having an initial case on someone. I did think you had seemed to go through my posts and highlight things that "might" be a mafia tell, which can be done with virtually everyone in every game. It's not a bad place to start an initial investigation, but it's not very substantial otherwise. Sticking to it blindly while ignoring responses and adding little else to the picture is what made me suspicious of you.

Since Lord Gurgi used his rare opportunity of verbosity to talk about me, it is only fair to address his suspicions.

I can't help but think that people who reveal their roles too eagerly should be attacked, first with bombs and rockets to destroy their homes, and then when they run helpless into the street, mow them down with machine guns. And then, of course, release the vultures.
I know these views aren't popular, but I have never thought of popularity.

In that case, do you prefer a guitar, castanets, a bowtie, or a motorbike? Or none of the above? More I dare not say, lest you do something awful to the player who guesses the exact role.

These posts worry me, especially considering that there is only one post between them, in which time he changed his position quite dramatically.

In the beginning, I was more whimsical than I am now. I wanted to find a way to throw in a favorite Python quote of mine, and I was also excited about testing my trivia prowess regarding Iron Man. If I remember correctly, others were curious too before we realized the implications. It was all a long time ago, in the early stages.

Here you directly ignore the fact that I am showing that you first make the implicit suggestion that role fishers should be killed, and then proceed to fish.

For the VERY LAST time, that was a joke post during early/whimsy stage with an obvious MP quote. This point would be comparable to me saying, "OMG Lord Gurgi voted for Rogue Shenanigans early on, but never voted for his replacement killa seven ever since then. He's so inconsistent he must be mafia." I've explained this whole situation several times, and I don't think you're stupid, so I can only conclude that you are pushing a false meme for sinister purposes.

Let me correct your other statements as well: in that post I was expressing disapproval of role

revealers

, not fishers. I was initially curious of Iron Man's character (not role), but I stopped once I realized what I was doing. It was more trivial pursuit than role fishing, and I wasn't the only one. That's not "I disagree"; that's a refutation. If you don't believe me, you can at least say that, but just repeating the weak argument with nothing else, completely ignoring previous explanations and even describing my initial actions incorrectly, is suspicoius to me, especially since I know I'm town.

1. We lost the cop? Ouch. And there's probably a cult? Double ouch.

Complaining about a bad night is traditionally a scum tell.

You do have a point here; I even wondered whether someone might think it was suspicious when I included it. However, such notions are largely circumstantial. One might as easily be "suspicious" of LG's post 948, in which he expresses joy about lynching mafia when he thought IM was admitting to it. Sometimes we express feelings because it's how we feel, not because we're trying to look a certain way.

Nice attempt at deflection, really. Believing that we had lynched scum is hardly comparative to lamenting the night. and of course they are circumstantial, that's all we have. Circumstance and a smattering of logic.

On Day 4, I would hope that we would have more than "circumstance" to go on, especially with all that's happened. And I wasn't "deflecting"; I didn't think you were mafia and I still don't. I was pointing out the very obvious notion that non-mafia people often do things that can be read as mafia tells. Our actions, while obviously not identical (as though that mattered), both fell into the "react with pro-town emotion" category. I imagine others have done similar things in this game, if we had the motive to look for them, but I personally don't.

I notice that he has never done any scum hunting of his own, only followed what the town has been saying and asking an occasional question. This makes me lean to the scum side.

I don't quite agree with this characterization; how is asking questions not hunting? It's true that most topics weren't started by me, mainly because nothing happened to me overnight -- unlike, apparently, many others -- and I was mostly trying to catch up with the posts of those others and make sense of them. There are only so many topics that can be brought up, after all; I'm not going to invent some new crazy topic just to satisfy someone else's idea of hunting.

You never stated any unique suspicions of anyone, until perhaps your latest post, and no I don't believe that you need to start discussion to scum hunt. You ask benign questions, that are in no way interrogation, or useful for that matter, clarification from the mod and asking people how they

feel

is what it amounts to.

I get that you don't approve of my early hunting style in this game. This is probably what you were referring to when you said that my response was "I disagree" rather than a refutation. Now that the low signal/noise ratio of the early days has increased, I think I've been able to make better contributions to the game -- though I still have less to talk about, since twelve things haven't happened to me every night (unlike others, apparently). If you still think my contributions are unhelpful, that's fine, but I wonder why the recent minimal play of others (K7, Mr. Ninja) doesn't seem to bother you as much.

As a side note, I find that someone who is not voting for someone by the end of the day to be quite scummy.

Is that based on actual experience, or just a particular preference of yours? I definitely have not seen that to be the case, especially on days where a townie is lynched. For my part, both days we were waiting for IM to say something; on Day 1 killa seven quickhammered before it even happened, and on Day 2 someone else (farside?) put the hammer soon after IM's reply, before I had a chance to return and read it. I'm not going to place some random vote late in the day just to appease someone else's idea of appearing town.

Experience. It works reliably, especially since we lynched a scum day one, your argument is flawed. There was plenty of time to vote the counter claimed scum with the badly faked post restriction.

First of all, there wasn't "plenty of time" to vote DBE, since a vote during the last several days would have either hammered her or put her at L-1. We were trying to do other things that game day, and I was severely unavailable most of that week (look it up if you don't believe me, starting with post 470). We weren't even close to deadline, and I didn't want to help along a DBE quickhammer until I had time to return and sort some other things out; as it was K7 was able to quickhammer her anyway, so my inclinations were justified.
Second of all, you didn't suspect me because I wasn't voting for DBE; you suspected me because I didn't vote for DBE (mafia)

or

Iron Man (town). That makes my argument far from "flawed"; it makes your initial argument opportunistic.

There is always someone you are suspicious of,

always

. I refuse to believe that two days in a row you could find no one suspicious enough to warrant a vote. Unless you are trying to lie low.

I refuse to believe it too, especially since it isn't true. Not counting my initial JordanA24 vote, I voted for Luigi Day 1 (though I removed it in anticipation of the SpyreX/DBE dilemma), and I voted for K7 Day 3. This is yet another thing you have said about me that is false; my response is not just "I disagree," it's "this is not accurate." Hence,

refuted

.

This makes a good pausing point; the other points will be addressed in a following post.

[Azimuth]

Okay, now let's talk about the other points in Lord Gurgi's post.

I hesitate to lay these next cards on the table, but here goes: since I agree that at least trying to lynch the cult recruiter is "the thing to do" for today, with lynching any cult member as an acceptable alternative for me, I would focus on farside22 and Lord Gurgi, who have been acting overly chummy since at least Day 2.

Quotes please.

Are you denying that you and she have been chummy? Well, you mention it yourself in post 961, as Day 3 was dawning (emphasis mine):

Farside22
Seems very pro-town to me,

quotes me a lot saying QFT

, which makes me think that maybe I am getting my points across. Her hammer of Iron Man was well reasoned, and I think that she is more town following that.
Read: A1

farside22 had never mentioned my name at all in the game until a few posts later, in 969:

It's scary that I agree with LG on some of his choices. Mine was just a gut check moment especially with the internet and Azimuth with their post. I will go back and highlight a few things that caught my interest with these 2.

The rest has been my own observation over the past few game days, and I've not seen much to refute it. Let's just say that I'm not at all surprised that she was the first to join you on my bandwagon (post 1443). So, I ask again: are you denying it?

With LG going after people for talking about the cult, making superficial attacks while hiding behind a restriction, and even accusing Muerrto of being the recruiter out of the blue, I get the notion that any of several lynches would be okay for him, which is consistent with that of a cult member.

The man has unilaterally declared that it is impossible for him to be a recruiter because of what he did yesterday. That is more than enough for me to want to lynch him.

It seemed too opportunistic to me. You suddenly want to lynch him because of one sentence in one post among many that he's made -- I assume you're talking about his second paragraph, post 1418 -- and your logic seems to be "only the

true

cult recruiter would deny his identity." It's not enough, and I stand by my suspicions of your sudden aggression against him, especially since you didn't even try to explain yourself in your "free post" (more on that later).

For now I will say that recently I have been most suspicious of JordanA24; I will be interested to see how imaginality plays that role and whether it negates or confirms my suspicions.

Have any comments on this also?

Undecided. He certainly hasn't played strangely the way JordanA24 did, and other recent revelations have possibly challenged my initial views of JordanA24 and his motives. I may have to do a re-read of the whole situation some other day if we are both still alive, but he is currently not among my strongest suspects for either mafia or cult. Still watching him, though.

With farside22 as the other possibility, EK's claim presents problems. I guess it depends on whether we care whether EK wins, and also whether we really trust her motives behind not wanting farside to be lynched. Still, LG's superficial aggressiveness make him more likely than farside to be a recruiter (though it could be someone else).

Please show me where I am being superficially aggressive, I think that if you tried my post restriction you would be ripping your hair out from not being able to say everything you want like I am. I am not in any way hiding behind my post restriction.

The Muerrto case above is an example of superficial aggression in my eyes. Also, considering that you just spent a free post without addressing it, or answering my questions regarding your strange post 1408, or expounding your superficially aggressive post 1411, or talking about almost

anything else in the entire game

besides your initial weak arguments against me, I can quite solidly call that hiding behind your post restriction. Let's hope you saved up enough so that you can make another free post soon.

While we're on the subject, what is the logic behind talking about how hard your post restriction is? Are we to conclude, "Gee...LG has a hard post restriction, therefore he must be pro-town"? Are you asking us not to mention it if you present an incomplete or inaccurate argument? I'm sure it's a challenge, but it doesn't give me a reason to trust your motives, especially since I happen to know you are pushing weak arguments against a pro-town player (me).

I have 103 posts to your 33.

Low quantity is not low quality. I suppose if I had spent Day 1 making lots of double- and triple-posts about practically nothing, lowering the signal/noise ratio but beefing up my post numbers, you would think I was the bee's knees? What do you hope to gain by presenting this fallacy?

I am truly quite frustrated that you are ignoring my suspicion as refuted. If this post sounds angry that's because it is. I have a vote too Azimuth, just because I can't make posts as large as you all the time doesn't mean that it counts for less.

I've never said your vote counts for less. When has the validity of your vote ever been an issue? I've been questioning the validity of the

arguments

behind your current vote, and more recently your motives in presenting those arguments as strong ones while generally ignoring my responses to them. I do so because I think it may help the game; if you choose to be angry or frustrated about that, there's not much I can do.

Another post to follow regarding other parts of the game since my post 1440 (hey! I might be a triple-poster after all...)

[Azimuth]

Aw darn, no triple-post. Although, I don't quite get farside22's reference to elvis. (Did she mean strappado? That's another kettle of fish....)

I still don't like the idea of a mass claim, because I think the anti-town forces stand to gain the most from the information. However, I realize that if my bandwagon grows I may need to claim regardless. I don't think that learning who I AM will necessarily help the baddies, but I'd still like to avoid it if possible.

BTW, if there ever IS a mass claim, I'd like even those whose roles have already been "revealed" to give a complete summary of what they've told us.

I'd still like to hear from elvis_knits again, especially regarding my thoughts on her claim -- e.g., what she thinks about not trying to kill anyone anymore ("wedding party" up to her, of course), among other things.

Regarding my bandwagon: in other circumstances I might be indifferent to my own lynch, since at least my revelation as town might finally send people after my pursuers. However, since there is at least a possibility of cult-related LYLO, I will fight to survive. I'd at least like to know whether those who vote me are doing so because they think I'm mafia or they think I'm cult. (Even Lord Gurgi should be able to do that.)

My current top suspects for cult: Lord Gurgi, farside22
My current top suspects for mafia: killa seven, strappado

I am still baffled by all things PokerFace. Is there no end to his possible hidden revelations, and will any of them help us? I suppose only he can say for now.

@Lord Gurgi: never meant to say you weren't "contributing." So you are in fact denying that you and farside22 have been chummy? This should also be easy to answer, restriction-wise.

[Azimuth]

Sorry, I've been away from the site. Looking quickly, I see that I am at L-2.

I have no particular problems claiming, though I doubt it will change the minds of the cul.... um, some of the people voting for me.

My character is God.
I am a once-per-customer Roleblocker.

Paraphrasing: the idea is that when I appear to someone, they become overly occupied acting like Arthur in that video and are thus "blocked" that night. However, because I tell them I don't like that kind of behavior, I am not able to block that person again.

And no, I am very much

not

interested in revealing which players I'm unable to block again, unless I deem it to be helpful in confirmation or contradiction.

I would like to take this opportunity to invite everyone not in the cult to leave my bandwagon. Yes, this includes mafia, since they will lose just as much if the cult wins because of mislynching me. For those who think that four people can't possibly be wrong: in a cult game they very much can.

I will be able to read the past few days of the game more closely (and respond more specifically, if needed) after work.

[Azimuth]

Ironically, the two people who were against a massclaim have now claimed, while everyone else has stayed silent. Do the rest of you intend to keep it going, or do you now think it would be hurtful to the town?

Yes continue to OMGUS. That's always a good idea.

Firstly, "OMGUS" is in the eye of the beholder. Anti-town players often use the OMGUS accusation against anyone who sees through their illogical arguments and therefore becomes suspicious of them. Secondly, in this particular game my suspicion of LG is hardly farfetched. When one person presents a weak argument, pushes it even after it's refuted, and at least two people just chime in with "I agree" with no additional argument of their own, cultlike behavior is a logical enough conclusion to draw, with a cult un-recruiter dead.

PF, I take issue with your "ad hominem" accusation. I've said nothing about Lord Gurgi as a person; I don't know LG as a person. I've talked about his arguments and his play in this game. Don't know why you would twist it so much.

I will note that several people have not answered the questions I've asked of them (not to mention questions that others have asked), even those that can be easily addressed with a post restriction. Perhaps they would rather ignore them and hope I get railroaded before anyone notices. But I will ask one of them again to those voting for me: do you think that I'm mafia or that I'm cult?

I will also ask LG and farside22, again: do you deny that you have been chummy? Can you otherwise explain why you were so sure of each other's innocence, so early in the game? I'm still waiting for LG to answer my questions to him in post 1412 as well.

I am not surprised that LG and farside22 claim not to believe me. It's a clever double-team they're pulling, with farside saying I should claim in 1489, then LG saying I was "overeager" in 1514. Obviously I am not expecting to convince them of anything. (BTW, the rest of you can check my past posts for God-related breadcrumbs if you care to.)

I am willing to answer other people's questions/concerns if they have them, but if it's just "I agree with LG's tells," with zero acknowledgment of the responses I've given so far, there's not much more I can address regarding myself.

[Azimuth]

Well, I'm glad there wasn't a cult. It doesn't explain why so many people agreed with Gurgi's weak arguments against me, but there we are. It's probably just as well I was lynched, though, since I was wrong about nearly everything else.

However, I'm still a bit disturbed that killa seven gave incomplete information that led to Iron Man's lynch. He didn't even bother to explain after the fact, and that would have kept me on his trail throughout the game.

PokerFace, I have to admit I still don't understand most of your arguments, but congratulations on figuring things out. I was worried that you were acting too pro-town to be pro-town, but I'm glad I was wrong.

This was my first large game, and possibly my last. I just don't know how people handle these things; I always felt like I was miles behind and could never fully catch up. Still, I loved the flavor and the characters and everything else shaft.ed brought to the game. Thanks for a fun time!