Monty Python's Mafia Circus Game Over

[imaginality]

I'm sure this game is about to get off to a flying start.

Vote: Bruce

because he looks like he might eat my wattle.

you're welcome

[imaginality]

Or even:

I'm sure this game is about to get off to a flying start.

Vote: Bruce because she looks like she might eat my wattle.


Sorry, had a few beers too many for brekkie.

[imaginality]

Ah that song, the epitome of romance...

[imaginality]

Ah that song, the epitome of romance...

The first time I heard it I fell out of my seat laughing.

Same here, Bruce, and also when I heard this particularly memorable ballad...

[imaginality]

Nah, Bruces, you're singing the wrong song. Here's the right one

Singing the wrong song, indeed. If I didn't know better, Bruce, I'd think you're trying to start an argument.

[imaginality]

Are so!

[imaginality]

I have no arms or legs, but I will head-butt you. And I will win!

Well there's no need to be suspicious of Bruce this game, then... 'cos she's 'armless...

[imaginality]

I have no arms or legs, but I will head-butt you. And I will win!

Well there's no need to be suspicious of Bruce this game, then... 'cos she's 'armless...

That is one of the worst puns I've ever heard.

Can I quote you on that?

You know it will just get worse from here being the game that it is.

Muauahahaha my plan is working

No it isn't

Are you related to Mr Polpotter by any chance?

*looks around for a man stroking a pig fondly*

[imaginality]

Vote Bruce.

What is your favorite color?

Golden amber. Delicious golden amber.


Vote: Bruce because:

ahh, we have begun!!!

Voteth: Bruce

what be this man made of Iron? Surely it is the work of evil.

It's not the work of evil, it's Ned Kelly.

[imaginality]

Oops forgot bold tag

Vote: Bruce

[imaginality]

When I was given one, Bruce.

[imaginality]

Well, Bruce, I'm allowed a couple of mistakes per game day, any more and I get myself mod-killed. So yeah, slipping up in that early post wasn't the best of starts... I guess I like to make life tricky for myself. :p

[imaginality]

Plus it was pre-game anyhow.

[imaginality]

Vote: Imaginality

1.) Far too silly
2.) fibbing about post restriction?
3.) All this Bruce nonsense is much too difficult to follow

1. Very silly =/= far too silly.
2. Nope. If I was going to fake something, I'd fake something less likely to annoy people and draw attention to myself.
3. Not at all, Bruce. I call everyone Bruce to

avoid causing confusion

.

AH, now I get it. Everyone is Bruce. Imaginality = Bruce.

I don't understand the posting restriction... do you just have to mention Bruce in every post?

unvote Bruce; vote imaginality

(My prom date's name was Bruce. For reals.)

I just have to talk normally... well, where normally = like all us philosophers at the University of Walamaloo talk when it comes to people's names. I don't know why you're finding it so difficult to understand, Bruce: it comes naturally to Bruce, Bruce, new Bruce and myself.

Because I couldn't remember who posted the role originally. Didn't remember it having been posted by Shaft.ed, also couldn't find it last night to check. Besides, it's in a thread that Imaginality must have read at least part of as he posted in it. I wanted to see his reaction to be accused to of a fake restriction.

And what do you make of how I reacted?

By the way, I do remember reading that post. And thinking, "That's an amusing idea for a role." That's before I was

given the role

and discovered how easy it is to forget to change the quote tags. But I've got the hang of it now, just as well really - after all, I wouldn't want to cause any confusion by not calling everyone Bruce... yep, it's much clearer this way.

[imaginality]

I got off lightly with the earlier slip-up because it was pregame, but each game day I'm only allowed three mistakes or the philosophy department will give me the sack for being too confusing, and that'll be the last you see of me.

[imaginality]

Well you screwed up some vote tags. So that's one.

If you mean post 97, it's okay for me to quote

other people

talking about people. Not everyone here is enlightened enough to call everyone Bruce, and I don't have to change what they've already said if I quote them.

The reason I call everyone Bruce is actually connected to the kind of philosophy I teach - logical positivism.

Y'see, Bruce, following on from Wittgenstein's conception of philosophy as a "critique of language," and his exploration of the possibility of distinguishing between intelligible and nonsensical discourse, I call everyone Bruce partly to demonstrate that sense and truth are both attributes of language

as it is used

, not of language

in itself.

The sentence, "Bruce is a wally, but Bruce ain't a wally," sounds contradictory, but when you're here in the room with me and I tell yer, "Bruce is a wally, but Bruce ain't a wally," you know exactly what I'm talking about. The

speech-act

is intelligible even though the

sentence

is,

prima facie

, nonsense.

That's also why I don't feel the need to call other people

outside this game

'Bruce': since speech-acts are temporally and spatially contextual, it's only you lot here who are all 'Bruce' to me.

Hope that's made it all clear. Want a beer, Bruce?

[imaginality]

On a side note. I propose a little hunt. What are we hunting for? Why, my role of course. I will give you a clue as to where it is. It is located in the episode "The Ant, An Introduction"

Good Luck.

I'm guessing if you're the homicidal barber you probably wouldn't be so quick to draw attention to that episode...

[imaginality]

Albatross!

Lucky Greek number, all I can say. Decipher it please!

Albatross!

Hmm... the only number that comes to mind for me is 10, the number Socrates was wearing when he [img=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2kAnTZBnTg]scored the winning goal[/img] against Germany...

[imaginality]

[quote="Bruce"]The town needs to get rid of people through voting, and it appears that he's only capable of voting one person...who isn't even in this game.[/Bruce]

I'm not entirely useless... my vote for Bruce is a genuine vote (albeit, a random vote). It wasn't for you, Bruce, it was for Bruce. The mod knows who I'm talking about.

[imaginality]

Ok, finished my search... I have come across two interesting quotes. in post 75 he said

Llamas are larger than frogs

and in post 134, he said

But revealing your role this early in the game would be an entirely bad play, and thus, is the best play a person could make on Day 1.

I don't know what either of those mean, but I ask the other player to analyze them.

I'm not sure about the second one, but from the first quote I'd guess that Bruce is either a Spanish guitarist or dancer, or, and perhaps more intriguingly, the person who writes the subtitles. The Spanish guitarist and dancer sung the line subtitled as "llamas are larger than frogs" in this sketch.

[imaginality]

Oh and by the way, a useful index of scripts for all the sketches can be found here in case anyone needs it, with the scenes listed alphabetically and also by series and episode.

[imaginality]

The Not-So FlavorfulVote Count:

JordanA24

(4) Azimuth, The Internet, farside22, Iron Man

imaginality

(5) TheSweatpantsNinja, strappado, elvis_knits

I'm intrigued by the fact that Bruce has 4 votes but is coloured red, suggesting he will be lynched if the votes stay as they are at present, even though I (somehow) have five votes against me. I'm wondering if Bruce is maybe a 'hated townie' (one less vote needed to lynch) or something of that sort.

I'm not inclined to believe Imaginality's post restriction because he was really not paying much attention to it in pre game.

I was still getting my head round it then (first time I've played with a post restriction).

I am confused by all your random voting and references to things I have no idea. I still don't know who Bruce is and why you though imaginality had a post restriciton, because I couldn't see one.

You can't see my post restriction? You haven't noticed that I've been calling everyone 'Bruce'?


A question to others: do you think one of us should offer Bruce the smokes and matches he's been asking for? Clearly it's likely to have an effect on the game somehow, and probably a silly one, but if he is anti-town would he be so open about wanting them?

(Also, if he is scum, and a scum buddy could offer him the smokes and matches, they would likely have done so already. So, it seems to me that either he's town, or he's scum but has to beg for smokes from non-scum players. So... what if we agree to

all

offer to sell him smokes - and if Bruce is scum, then anyone who doesn't offer smokes to him (assuming we agree on that course of action) would be under suspicion.

...Actually on second thoughts, if he's scum then maybe he's just not allowed to

accept

smokes from scum buddies (but they can offer them), in which case that approach wouldn't help. Sorry, just thinking aloud here.)

Still, what do others think about whether we should give Bruce the smokes and matches he seems to need?

[imaginality]

Anyway, I'm honestly not sure what we're looking for here. Should we assume that the flavortext is mostly meaningless and we aren't looking for the silliest?[...]
I still say we get rid of Imaginality to eliminate the Bruce confusion.

vote Bruce

I join the others who pointed out that voting me just because I'm confusing/silly is not good scum-hunting at best, and suspicious at worst.


As for the flavourtext, if you watch the episodes with the Colonel, his reason for interrupting and ending a sketch is always that it's "got (too) silly". (The end of this sketch is a good example.) So, naturally that would be the Colonel's reason for removing whichever of us we decide to lynch. I don't think it means that the people who seem silliest among us are most likely to be scum.

[imaginality]

Oops forgot to unvote.

Unvote

Vote Bruce

[imaginality]

It's sad that even with the wonders of the Internet some of the best Monty Python sketches are still not freely available for the unwashed masses to view. One of my favorite sketches is Piston Engine, yet only a 21 second clip is widely available online. Can you help a sad mod find the rest of this magnificant sketch?

I found this filesharing site thing which looks like it has that episode in .rar format (series 4 episode 4), as well as the other episodes, so you can probably download it from there I'm at work at the moment so I can't download it here to check that it works, but it looks promising. (Obviously with the caveat that filesharing of copyrighted files is of dubious legality and may result in a large foot stomping on your head and whatnot.)

[imaginality]

Also, if you read my reasons for voting Imaginality[...] I said that if he can only vote for a player that is not in this game (i.e., "Bruce"), then he wont really be a contributing member of the town when it comes to lynchings and whatnot. I'm reconsidering my stance as there is apparently a Bruce somewhere in the game.

That said:

unvote, vote: Bruce

My votes count, Bruce. It's just that my vote always shows up as being for Bruce, no matter who I vote for, since I call you all Bruce.

I experimented by voting you just now to see if that would show against you, since you already had a couple of votes against you, but it looks like my vote will always get listed separately. If you pay attention to my posts though, it should be reasonably clear who my votes are for.

unvote

As far as I know the only Bruces in the game are all you fellas (and me of course), there's no other Bruces about, so I reckon

you

have to vote for people by the names you call them by. (That's why Bruce's vote for Bruce just now didn't count towards the vote count, I assume.)

So rest assured, Bruce, I can and will put my vote to good use to lynch the scum wherever we find them.

[imaginality]

@Strapado,

my vote for Bruce did not count earlier only imaginality's vote for bruce counts aparently. Your vote don't count for him either

Bruce has it right. Just in case anyone is still in any doubt... my vote is not useless; my vote is

no more valuable and no less valuable

than anyone else's (single) vote. Whenever I vote for Bruce, I'm voting for a specific person. Because I'm pro-town I will always try to make it clear who I am voting for, within the bounds of my post restriction.

It's particularly important for me to try to make it obvious who I'm voting for because, since my vote always gets listed separately as being for Bruce, if I join a wagon, from the vote count it may look like the person being wagonned is at L-2 (for example) when in fact they are at L-1. So if I ever cast a vote and you're not sure who it's for, feel free to ask.

[imaginality]

I'm with you both on wanting to know Bruce's full claim. I have a few thoughts about what it might be but much better to hear it from the announcer's mouth first.

Re. Bruce's lurking, I think we shouldn't ignore Bruce's 12-word point that Bruce also hasn't said much to date, making her comment post 252 more than a little (or perhaps I should say 'un per'?) cheeky.

As for Bruce's confusion, he's struggled to find things to say in other games I'm in with him too. It's definitely more blatant in this game though, and I think his not being familiar with Monty Python is also not likely to help us later down the line.

[imaginality]

Hell, you're totally shaping up on your post restriction to the point I barely notice it anymore.

I actually understood all this.

Cheers, Bruce, and cheers, Bruce.

Why is DBE (bruce) scummy in all this?

Hmm, well looking back, she has posted a bit more than I remembered but more so earlier in the game than lately, so I thought it was a little cheeky for her to just post a one-line endorsement of Bruce's challenge to Bruce to 'post some content' rather than add anything extra herself.

While we're on the topic of people who could be contributing more than they are, Bruce is also worth mentioning in that regard. I'm sure you know who I mean - he's done nothing so far except random vote, roll a die to see whether to vote me, and post a couple of video links. I'm pretty keen to hear more from him, too - his thoughts on who looks scummiest to him so far and why, or something, at least.

[imaginality]

im confused who is bruce?

Well, Bruce... imagine that you're forgetful when it comes to names. So to avoid getting people's names mixed up, you call everyone 'whatshisname'. "Hi whatshisname, how are you? Have you heard from whatshisname lately?"

Well, that's what I do (due to a post restriction), except instead of calling you all "whatshisname", I call you all 'Bruce'. Including myself.

If you're still confused, watch this sketch; I'm one of those Aussie philosophers.

Hope that helps, Bruce.

[imaginality]

You are correct.

[imaginality]

The posting of sketches in every post I could see, but a sudden backwards talking restriction. There should be no reason for it to happen out of nowhere

Anyway, I dont think Luigi Gangster warrants a vote until he's explained and answered questions.

I disagree. I think if his vote restriction was real, he would have learned from seeing all the questions and doubts I got about mine, and preemptively explained his own already, in the backwards post if not before. It's certainly possible that he might be able to explain it, in which case I'll rescind my vote, but for now, the fact that it came so out of the blue and without any attempt to explain it before or since seems reason enough to vote him. If he has a good reason for it, he really should speak up soon.

vote Bruce

[imaginality]

EBWOP: by 'vote restriction' I mean 'post restriction', of course.

[imaginality]

I do apologize for the lack of content. Has no one considered the fact that Bruce and Lord G. aren't the only ones with restrictions!?

Hmm, this is interesting. Are you claiming to have a post restriction, Bruce? And if so, then as Bruce asked you in post 279, how does your post restriction if any relate to the relative lack of content in your posts?

[imaginality]

I think to avoid any possibility of momentary confusion leading to premature lynching, I should remind everyone that my vote is also on the Bruce bandwagon, so Bruce is currently on L-2, not L-3 as it might appear to the unwary.

[imaginality]

I personally don't believe in the first day lynch because i don't see how we can no very much about anyone before the night phase. So i tend to have fun on the first day, and as the game goes on and i learn more about the game setup i start getting more serious as I actually understand what is happening.

I was gonna try a dice roll in my next post but i am not going to do that now because you guys will probably call it a faked post restriction and add it to your list of reasons for voting for me.

320 posts in the game so far, and counting, and you can't find a non-random reason to vote anyone, or be suspicious of anyone?

my character seems to be a pretty cool guy but i am not sure if he actually does anything or has any special abilities/restrictions.

I live in a desert but even I know that this smells fishy. If you've read your role PM why are you still unsure whether your character has any special abilities/restrictions?

I think I will keep my vote on you for now.

[imaginality]

Wow. A lot has happened since last time I checked in!

Expect a fuller post later, only on for a few minutes right now. To answer your questions about my post restriction, it was very clear: I'm allowed up to three

accidental

mistakes per game day without penalty, if I slip up any more often than that (or make

any deliberate

attempt to to get around the restriction) I get modkilled.

[imaginality]

Hello again, just got back from the sheep dip.

My thoughts.

The fact that Bruce counterclaimed Bruce makes me much more inclined to believe him rather than her, because as others have pointed out, scum would be very dumb to counterclaim like that otherwise.

One question I have about that, which maybe someone with more experience can answer: is it normal for scum to (effectively) come out with their fake-claim so early on? The reason I ask is that to anyone with a bit of knowledge of Monty Python it was very obvious from very early on what character Bruce was appearing to be, due to her continual colourful insults. That seems like a pretty big risk for scum to take when there's a decent chance another player might have that role? It also makes me a little curious as to why Bruce didn't pressure her and/or counterclaim earlier.

I also wonder whether (and again this may be bad tactics so don't hesitate to tell me if this is a silly idea) rather than lynch Bruce today and then lynch Bruce tomorrow if Bruce does turn out to be telling the truth about her role, we might be able to find out more if we let them both live tonight? It seems handy to know that we have another maf already in our sights if we can find a different maf to lynch today. (Don't get me wrong: if we decide to lynch one or the other of them, I definitely agree that Bruce is the one to lynch first, I don't think it's a 50-50 call by any means.)

Certainly, I don't think we should rush to a quick lynch of Bruce when several other players still have significant questions to answer, such as the issues around Bruce's partial role claim. His latest post, voting without reading in detail and without addressing the questions he's been asked, is very suspect, and he really needs to address the roleclaim questions one way or another.

I also find Bruce's claim to still not have found anything worth talking about really, really hard to believe. He seems happy enough to pipe up when people are asking him direct questions, but is contributing nothing otherwise. Silliness and suspiciousness are all around us, Bruce,

surely

you have

some

thoughts on which of your fellow players seem dodgiest?

As for Bruce, after reading his latest posts, I'm now inclined to believe that he wasn't faking a post restriction. His backwards post did come around the same time that a couple of others were joining in with me in calling people Bruce, so there's some reason to believe his claim that he was just experimenting/being silly with that post. On the other hand, I continue to find him suspect for the other reasons I mentioned earlier, particularly his comment that his "character seems a cool guy but I don't know if he has any special abilities/restrictions". Bruce, could you comment on why you said that - surely your role PM would tell you whether or not you have special abilities or restrictions? (I'm not fishing to know

what

they are or aren't, I don't want you to roleclaim, I'm just curious why you made it sound like you're not sure what your character does.)

[imaginality]

It's good to see Bruce posting again. He raised some interesting points in his comments on the quoted posts from Bruce, Bruce, Bruce, Bruce, Bruce, Bruce, Bruce, Bruce, Bruce and Bruce. (Oh, and Bruce. )

In the Bruce versus Bruce, claim versus counterclaim debate, I'm now willing to vote for lynching Bruce today, because after thinking about it from Bruce's perspective, his decision not to counterclaim earlier makes more sense than I first thought, making me more convinced that if one of the two is scum, it's Bruce (whether or not Bruce is also scum remains an open question).

Also, further justifying seeing Bruce as the scummier of the two: Bruce's claimed post restriction, which amounts to "I have to contribute nothing much most of the time, but if I come under suspicion I can defend myself properly," seems like the kind of post restriction a non-town player would be more than happy to fake for herself.

Unvote; vote Bruce

- I know this places her at L-1 (eek, the first time I've voted someone to L-1! ) but someone has to... and I think lynching her today is more than justified given Bruce's counterclaim; none of the discussion since has changed that basic fact. We've also stirred up a lot of questions and talking points about other players, none of which will vanish overnight, so I don't think we'd be ending the day too early.

[imaginality]

Wait.. Bruce, are you sure she was at L-2? (Bruce unvoted a few posts ago).. I think she may be only at L-2 again now.

Mod: can we have a vote count please?

[imaginality]

If we take that option, I think there are three possibilities:

1. Bruce is modkilled and day ends

Net result - this is slightly worse than lynching Bruce, because we don't get to see who casts the L-1 and hammer votes.

2. Bruce is modkilled and day doesn't end

Net result - this is good if Bruce's alignment is confirmed: if Bruce was townie we can lynch Bruce for counterclaiming her, if Bruce was scum we can lynch another scum. (However, this is pretty bad if alignment isn't confirmed; I assume mods usually confirm players' alignments when modkills are made, but is that always the case?)

3. Bruce isn't modkilled, but claims to have received some other penalty

Net result - this depends on what she claims the penalty is; it's possible that the penalty might be somewhat confirmable, but also highly possible that it isn't easily confirmable (if it's loss of night action, for example), in which case we'd be no further forward than we are now. So overall, this is probably no better or worse than lynching.

Personally I think that 1 is the most likely option by a fair way, followed by 3, so I think we're more likely to lose slightly rather than gain from testing her claim, but how do others see it?

[imaginality]

EBWOP: I meant to say, "Personally I think that 3 is the most likely option by a fair way, followed by 1 (if Bruce

does

have the post restriction), so overall I think we're more likely to lose slightly rather than gain from testing her post restriction"

[imaginality]

Even with my laidback Aussie philosopher outlook on life, I find myself becoming more and more tempted to take a fish in each hand and slap Bruce in the face with them until he starts contributing

something

to this game. I agree with Bruce that Bruce (and Bruce) aren't the lynch for today, but the longer Bruce's non-participation continues the more anti-town it becomes.

[imaginality]

I was expecting the announcer to be one of the mod's personae. "Day 2, and now for something completely different..."

<<waits on ironman
(I think he should only finish claim if it would benefit the town. What does everyone else say?)

I agree with you Bruce; at least, I'm not sure that it is to our advantage if Bruce completes his claim

now

, compared to at the start of day 2. If he completes his claim now, that might just help the mafia with their night choices (e.g. target him if he has a useful power role)? He should at least respond though and say something on the matter either way.

[imaginality]

Hi all. Good to be back for a bit, filling in for JordanA24. At least this time I don't have to double-check my quote tags each time I post.

A longer post is coming soon, for now, I agree with The Internet that those with claims should reveal their targets and results. It would also be good to know whether anyone was visited by the bridgekeeper last night. (I wasn't.)

SpyreX if Mirth is untargetable, hard to see how she could have been NKed? Another possibility might be that the 'self-target' in Self-Target Role Blocker refers to her target i.e. she roleblocks them by reflecting their action back on themselves.

[imaginality]

Ignore that bit about the bridgekeeper, didn't see The Internet's post.

[imaginality]

I'm also here, still reading, work has been mad busy this week annoyingly, but this weekend is totally free so expect a detailed post from me by this time tomorrow. Apologies - had hoped to get my teeth into it sooner than this.

farside, I think you've misunderstood Azimuth, at least, I took him to be challenging Lord Gurgi's implication that not voting is a scum tell, by saying that (in general, not just in this game) not voting at the end of days when a townie is lynched is not a scum tell. (Whether or not that's true, I don't know.)

chenhsi, what do you think about how people reacted to your recent post commenting on the night kill? Do you have any useful insights, questions, anything to contribute to the scum hunt?

[imaginality]

chenhsi: "You guys pick on me when I don't say anything, now you pick on me when I do say something, what do you want from me??!?!!!"

[imaginality]

Okay, I see there's quite a bit of posting going on at the moment. So I'm rushing a little to get these thoughts out there, hope they read clearly. Will post more in my next post.

Thoughts on a few players:

Azimuth

I notice that he has never done any scum hunting of his own, only followed what the town has been saying and asking an occasional question. This makes me lean to the scum side.

I don't quite agree with this characterization; how is asking questions not hunting? It's true that most topics weren't started by me, mainly because nothing happened to me overnight -- unlike, apparently, many others -- and I was mostly trying to catch up with the posts of those others and make sense of them. There are only so many topics that can be brought up, after all; I'm not going to invent some new crazy topic just to satisfy someone else's idea of hunting.

That answer is a bit evasive. You don't have to 'invent some crazy new topic', you can further the scumhunt by offering insights, arguments and suggestions (and yes, questions) on the main issues, rather than simply summarise and agree with what's already been said.

I also didn't much like your posts during Day 2 where you said:

The only possible thing that I can think of is that Iron Man's ability (giving someone else's night choice a random target, if I have that correctly) seems quite chaotic, and not one that could be used effectively in any pro-town capacity. But does that mean he's mafia?

and

Just chiming in to say that I was quite close to placing a vote on Iron Man too, mainly because his ability doesn't seem to be pro-town (but also for the other reasons -- lurking, possible contradiction, etc.)

because I think it is pretty clear that in a Monty Python theme game, there are going to be at least a few roles capable of creating chaos and confusion, and there's no reason to assume that such a role would be given to a scum player rather than a townie. So you giving that as your main reason for (almost) voting Iron Man doesn't sit well with me.

And then there's the not voting thing that Lord Gurgi mentioned, which on Day 2 does look bad: by saying you're suspicious of Iron Man but not going to the extent of putting a vote on him, you conveniently look good whether he turns up scum ("See, I said he was suspicious") or town ("See, I didn't vote him").


chenhsi

Semi-lurking lazy village idiot. And then commenting on the night kill to boot. The only thing in your favour right now is that you've had five votes land on you so quickly that there seems a fair chance of scum being on that wagon. On the other hand, since there appears to be two anti-town groups (scum and SK or scum and cult, or possibly even scum and SK and cult), you might still be scum from a different faction to those on your wagon.


The Internet

As with Azimuth, I disagree with you here:

Beause his claimed ability is of very little use to the town (randomize the targt of town power role screws up plans, randomizing mafia targets could lead to hitting someone unprotected), and a good townplayer should know this, so why would they choose to use their ability if they were town? But this abilitycan sew chaos, maing it useful to the scum. So Iron Man, why did you target killa 7?

Assuming mafia try to avoid targeting people they think the doc will protect, randomizing mafia targets would make them more likely to hit someone protected, not less, and also could cause them to kill their own scumbuddies! So I don't see Iron Man using his ability (or trying to) on K7 (who was looking fairly suspicious) as a bad thing.

In general I agree with strappado, you seem to be fishing for info, but not driving a case against anyone. I also think your saying "HOS: Chenshi" when you meant strappado might be more than a random slip, especially as you're not on his wagon.

Also re. your recent post, no, Darla's wagon did not move too fast for you to vote her if you'd wanted to. Right now I like farside's case against you, and I think you may be teamed with chenhsi and DBE.


elvisknits

Just one minor quibble - you said:

I never voted for DBE because it would have been the hammer and people were asking not to end the day yet.

Not true, it would only have been L-1 if you'd voted at the time of the post farside quoted (post 560).

[imaginality]

killa seven

K7 looks pretty suspect to me. I believe his role claim and power, but not his alignment.

Things that stand out:

- lurking most of Day 1
- hammering DBE without reason and before Iron Man could claim
- post 669 and 705 basically say "I hammered DBE because she was scum" which is not an explanation and doesn't answer Mirth's question of why he didn't wait for Iron Man to claim. He didn't answer that, or Mirth's other question about how his lurking could help town. And now Mirth's dead...

- post 659 "Poker what action did strappaddo do last night?" - I'm not sure a townie would be so quick to basically out himself with that comment (it was obvious that he'd have to roleclaim to explain that post), more useful for a townie to keep quiet and then (a) back up PokerFace's claim to have tracked strappado if PF decided to reveal that, or (b) challenge PF why he didn't reveal it, if PF kept quiet and looked scummy for other reasons, or (c) get PF to confirm his role claim if he came under pressure and had to claim.

- post 846 "im guessing Iron mans action didnt work btw" and then
- post 861 "you claim you targeted me? yet my night action went as planned.
explain"

- choosing Mirth to track someone when Mirth was arguably less likely to be doc protected than other players (so less chance of getting results) (that's arguable I know, just my opinion) and (b) Mirth got killed. It makes me wonder if, even if his power is true, he chose Mirth knowing she'd be killed, to avoid giving the town more information.

Right now I'm giving serious thought to the possibility that K7 hammered early Day 1 so that Iron Man didn't have a chance to claim, and then his scum buddy roleblocked Iron Man so they could get him lynched Day 2. And then they lynched Mirth who had been suspicious of K7.

Problems with this: why would K7 use his role to help PF track strappado? (I don't think PF is scum.)

Possible explanation for that: he's not allowed to use the power on his scumbuddies (I could believe that, it would be another splash of silliness in the game), or he might be SK in which case he has no buddy.

Hmm, i think there's enough there for me to

Vote: killa seven

[imaginality]

Night one, K7 said he targeted PF to track strappado, and PF confirmed that he'd seen strappado visit SpyreX. So if K7 was lying about being able to send one player to track another, then PF would also have to have been lying. This is separate to PF's own night action, with which he targeted Elvis night 1 and you night 2.

[imaginality]

PF - there's no scene with Brian rolling dice in 'Life of Brian' that I know of either, and I can remember that movie pretty much word for word... ...so I guess it's either a play-style thing or perhaps he did it to lead astray anyone who tried to guess his role.

Very interesting to see the Albatross postings from Gurgi in the other game, well done for digging that up. The rules listed at the start of this game don't state whether or not the roles were randomly assigned. I'm with elvis -

if

the roles were randomly assigned, the odds of Lord Gurgi happening to be the one person from 18 to get that role seem too low to be believable.

[imaginality]

Mine:

K7
chenhsi
Azimuth.

The Internet would be 4th.

[imaginality]

My reasons for K7 are the ones I gave in post 1055, my reasons for chenhsi, Azimuth and The Internet are in post 1050. And in the case of Azimuth his posts since then come across as trying a little too hard to paint the picture of him as a helpful townie trying to keep up with a fast game, which is why I listed him above The Internet.

[imaginality]

No, I don't think PF is K7's scumbuddy - PF definitely seems town to me. (If I had to guess between neither of them being scum, or both of them being scum, I'd guess neither.)

I don't think K7 is lying about his night action: for K7, as scum, to have the night power of sending one player to track another, seems suitably unusual and I can easily believe shaft.ed might give him that role, especially after seeing Iron Man flip town it seems like something shaft.ed might do.

For K7 to question PF in the way he did seems more likely something scum would do (thinking that getting their night action confirmed will help clear them from people's suspicions) rather than a townie (revealing their power role before they had to). That combined with the other points in post 1055 is why I think K7 is scum.

Am interested to hear your thoughts about it.

[imaginality]

My take on the cult:

It's possible that there's no cult and shaft.ed threw the Cult Unrecruiter role in there to lead us astray, but I don't think it's likely. If I had to guess, I'd say that the Spanish Inquisition are the cult, and that they can kill on even nights and recruit on odd nights (or perhaps have the choice of which they do each night), which would explain why there were two kills night 1 and one night 2. Certainly flavour-wise, it makes a lot of sense for the Spanish Inquisition to be the cult.

If it's a scum group (Evil Egocentrics) and a serial killer, then they either double-targeted Mirth night 2, or there was a roleblock or doc save or something. Personally I think scum + cult is more likely, but I haven't played in other games shaft.ed's modded, so I'm drawing these conclusions just based on the flavour and events in this game so far.

[imaginality]

Ah, true, I'd forgotten the Spanish Inquisition use a dish rack. Yes, you're right, in that case the Spanish Inquisition player(s) are pretty unlikely to be a cult since they've killed both nights.

[imaginality]

So, personally, with a double claim like this my thought process would be:
Town 40%
Scum bussing Scum 40%
SK 15%
Cult 5%

What about the possibility of it being another scum but from a different group? I.e. a member of mafia group A counterclaiming a member of mafia group B? I know we only had one kill last night, but there could have been a doc save, so I don't think we should yet rule out the possibility of there being two mafia groups.

Not saying it's a big probability, but curious why you didn't even consider it.

[imaginality]

I agree with Azimuth: K7's been actively lurking the whole day. Whether or not we lynch chenhsi, he's definitely becoming even more suspect in my eyes.

As for chenhsi, his reluctance to claim yet is interesting, because he showed no reluctance to claim in other games I'm in with him and he flipped town both times in those games. This game he seems somewhat more nervous to. Look forward to hearing what he claims...

[imaginality]

EBWOP: Whether or not we lynch chenhsi, K7's becoming more suspect in my eyes.

[imaginality]

After chenhsi's claim, I'm prepared to vote/hammer him (the 2x NK-immunity fits very well with him being an SK as others have suggested), but I want to wait until PokerFace has the chance to share the "rather startling evidence I held off on posting earlier."

[imaginality]

Mod: are you able to confirm whether all the roles in this game were randomly assigned?

No I cannot confirm one way or the other

So I guess I'll ask you all which lynch you all think is better and we can go from there. If needed, I think I'd be ok with lynching Gurgi tomorrow.

If after hearing from them, there's general agreement that they're both scum, chenhsi might be the better lynch since there seems to be more likelihood he might be SK. It makes sense to lynch the potential SK first so we have only one night kill tonight rather than two, I'd say.

[imaginality]

Now that PokerFace has made his case against Lord Gurgi, and since it seems to have been cleared up satisfactorily, I say we should go ahead with lynching chenhsi. I don't think that he will sway anyone's minds by posting his video link.

Unvote, Vote: chenhsi

[imaginality]

PokerFace, I did indeed receive your message during the night: paraphrasing a bit, you complimented me on the sleekness of my body hair by comparing me positively to a farmyard animal.

No, I don't actually have cigs and matches for you, but I responded as though I did as per your suggestion in post 1301. Sorry that it didn't work out... I think it's looking increasingly likely that your role is for amusement value only... which it certainly provides.

[imaginality]

Erm, I dunno, doesn't he mainly just massacre a bunch of people in the movie?

See this clip (killing starts around 7:00).

On the other hand, given that the implication is you saw a Sir Lancelot visiting someone, and we already have a bunch of other investigative roles (cop, tracker, watcher, bridgekeeper), and the machine that goes bing as a likely doctor... maybe he could be a cult leader...

If we do have a cult, with potentially 4 members already, we need to lynch a cultist today, and lynch the cult leader today or tomorrow, otherwise we'll be outnumbered (unless mafia night kill cultists/cult leaders, but we can't count on that)...

[imaginality]

K7 can select someone to act as a tracker. He also selects their target.

Night 1: Selected PokerFace to track strappado
Night 2: Selected Mirth to track Lord Gurgi
Night 3: Selected Spyrex to track farside22

His ability was confirmed by PokerFace. However the trackers N2 and N3 both died. I'm wondering if he is scum and choosing trackers that he knows will be killed so the town doesn't gain any more information.

[imaginality]

killa seven's posts relating to his night actions:


---
Poker what action did strappaddo do last night?
---
I targetted 2 people last night so to speak.
PF is the info we are speakin of will out scum, i say go for it.
---
my role name is patsy

i use a coconut to transport people over large distances.
i choose one player each night to track another.
i chose pokerface to track strappaddo
obviously my night choice worked, IM is lying, PF confirmed it worked.
---
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHFXG3r_0B8
Thats the video with my role pm.
---
i chose mirth to track lord gurgi.

shes now dead..
---
Im pretty sure mirth was questiong my role and power so i chose her.
---
@ pokerface LG was a random pick. couldnt really decide who to choose to i picked a random person who was active.
---
I sent spryrex after farside22.. this is second night in a row someone i sent to track has died i dont know if its just a coincidence or what.
---

Actually re-reading, killa seven has contributed even less to the scum hunt than I remembered. The lack of scum-hunting combined with two of his assigned trackers being conveniently dead before they could report their results, I'm still not liking him.

Vote: killa seven

Though I don't think K7 is a prospect for cult leader (don't see them being given an extra night power like that), so if anyone has a good idea who that might be I'm happy to switch my vote - I think we should be trying to lynch cult leader (or at least cult) rather than scum today.

[imaginality]

farside22, were you given any clues as to why you should avoid sir lancelot or was it just a vaguer 'watch out for him' kinda thing?

The 'sir lancelot = cult leader' theory is definitely looking plausible.

Muerrto, you asked who visited you last night...you know the BK visited you, and I dont leave any trace of having visited...so did lancelot leave something or give you a message or something? How did you know someone else visited you?

Good question, Muerrto please answer.

[imaginality]

If Elvis decides not to reveal her information yet, then I am for a mass claim.

If Elvis does reveal her information I think we should see what that leads to and vote again after that:

I'm thinking I should claim first, now, and the rest of you might not have to go through with a mass claim because I think my role and information that I have will shed some light on the situation, and possibly change some of your ideas.

My main concern with a mass claim is the chance that shaft.ed is just playing with us with the cult unrecruiter role and that there might not be a cult at all. However, the fact strappado saw Sir Lancelot visit Muerrto and was warned that an overzealous knight makes me think that Sir L, whoever that is, could well be a cult recruiter.

So,

Vote: for mass claim

unless elvis's information changes the picture significantly.

[imaginality]

That's a good question (off the top of my head I can think of two Python scenes that quote fits better with than the wedding party one).

The main question I have is, if you targeted Muerrto, how come he isn't dead? The possibilities as I see them:

(a) strappado is lying - she also saw a doctor visit Muerrto but didn't mention it
(b) Muerrto is NK immune (could be one shot or multi-shot)
(c) you were roleblocked

and

roleblocked players still show up in watcher reports
(d) you're lying about your role

The problem I have with (c) is that you claim to have been roleblocked twice, but I don't think a scum roleblocker would target you twice when you hadn't yet claimed and there were arguably better targets (e.g. strappado had already claimed watcher). I could see a pro-town roleblocker targeting you twice given that there was only one kill N2. But do we have a pro-town roleblocker?

In that case, if I were you I would not try to kill anyone else, if it doesn't fit the win condition. I would even be suspicious of anyone who tried to get you to kill someone as a "vig"; you have no real reason to trust most of us, I imagine.

I don't see the problem with elvis_knits acting as a vig for the town (if we trust her to do so). Especially if we have a cult, the added chances of killing cult leader maybe outweigh the risks of killing a townie. At the very least it's worth considering rather than dismissing too quickly. Your post reads kinda like a pre-emptive "don't trust them if they tell you to vig me"...

[imaginality]

With a cult unrecruiter role in the game, I think there's zero chance of having a strong cult, since unrecruiting any cult member would tell us who all the other cult members are - seems too swingy depending whether and when the unrecruiter targets a cult member. And as PokerFace says there hasn't been any evidence of cult players defending cult leader kind of behaviour as of yet.

So I think we have either a weak cult (don't know leader) or no cult. Given shaft.ed's sense of humour, and the fact that it looks like PokerFace is searching for someone who doesn't exist, I'm swinging towards the 'no cult' hypothesis. Especially now that the Sir Lancelot role has been explained.

I don't think elvis is lying about her role unless farside is also lying, the two roles go together. If they're both lying that could make them mafia but not cult (as I've already argued I don't believe a strong cult exists).

With Elvis's claim significantly shifting my opinion towards there being no cult, I think PokerFace's suggestion of forcing the scummiest/most likely to be cult players to claim first is a better one than massclaim now if we are still cult hunting. Mass claim gives too much information to the mafia too easily.

In case anyone thinks I'm saying this because I'm a cult recruiter leery of a mass claim, I will prove I am not, by saying this: I'm the person who targeted PokerFace night 1.

Pokerface, the following word should be enough to confirm that I know what you're thinking of: long. Hopefully that's enough for you to know what I'm alluding to.

I'd prefer not to say more than that right now, as I think the 'make the most suspicious player claim first' approach is better. But that should be enough to show I'm not cult leader (admittedly I could still have been culted, but we're trying to find the cult leader if he/she exists).

For what it's worth, my lists of suspicions at the moment:

Potential scum:
K7
Azimuth
The Internet

Potential cult leader if we do have a cult:
Azimuth
The Internet
TSPN

[imaginality]

Ironically if its just the character name that is the only true part, I "almost" want to lynch him on the chance he is God and cult recruiter. Brian (The Pythonesc "Son" of God) Unrecruiter would make sence with that.

That's an amusing point, and it does kinda fit flavourwise.

Whereas "because I tell them I don't like that kind of behaviour, I'm unable to block them again" makes little sense. If Azimuth blocks e.g. a cop and 'tells them he doesn't like their behaviour', they will still be a cop the next night, it's not like they've stopped doing it. If Azimuth had said his blocking them vanillaises them, that would make more sense.

I have to reread a few pages as I was V/LA over the weekend, will post more later.

[imaginality]

I looked back and Azimuth did indeed breadcrumb his God claim, e.g:

even I will not wait an eternity.

and

just going by the only Judgment I can trust: mine.

However, accepting that he has the role of God has little significance on whether we should lynch him or not since

(a) his roleblocker power could be either a pro-town or scum role
and
(b) given shaft.ed's sense of humour, I can easily imagine him having God as either a cult recruiter or a scum role (maybe even casting God as the scum Godfather!?).

I am still considering whether to have another shot at proving to PF I know the skill he received, but I'm thinking it may be better to wait. (Obviously if we're continuing with the massclaim I will claim, but I'm not sure where we're at with that, post-Azimuth.)

[imaginality]

If you view his posts, they're numbers 14 and 23. There may be others as well, I was just skimming through and those two were the most obvious ones to jump out at me.

[imaginality]

Now that Muerrto's had a chance to answer PF's questions, I'm going to

Unvote

Vote: Azimuth

I've listed him as a suspect for scum and for cult and, while I do think he is God (so to speak) (and I'm sorry I looked for breadcrumbs rather than letting him point them out, the Judgment one looked so clear as to be pretty conclusive but I take the point about why it's not a good idea to do that), I think he's anti-town. Aside from the points already raised, one other thing is that it seems like Iron Man was likely roleblocked night 1 leading to his night 2 lynch, so it seems reasonable to suspect there to be at least one anti-town roleblocker. I think it's Azimuth.

[imaginality]

EBWOP: day 2 lynch

[imaginality]

Both Luigi Gangsta and TSPN were described as 'slain', so it looks pretty clear that elvis killed TSPN last night. Also, with two non-cult deaths, where do people stand on the cult now? I am very much leaning towards the conclusion that it's a red herring.

Another thought: Given that Azimuth was a unique target roleblocker, and elvis got blocked two nights running, it seems we also have a scum roleblocker in our midst (which we already suspected after Iron Man flipped town). The one thing that runs against that conclusion is that elvis apparently wasn't blocked, I would have expected the scum to block her - not sure what to make of that.

K7, why did you choose The Internet to track TSPN?


---

For convenience, here's a list of the night actions that players have claimed so far. Let me know if I got any wrong. Bold = confirmed town and also elvis, italics = confirmed scum.

Night 1

PF spoke to

EK

TSPN

visited

SpyreX

K7 sent PF to track strappado

Mirth

visited

SpyreX

Iron Man

blocked K7 (or tried to)

SpyreX

attracted strappado
strappado watched

SpyreX

(saw

Mirth

, the machine that goes bing, and

TSPN

)

elvis

killed

luigi

imajordan targeted PF

Bruce and Luigi died


Night 2

elvis

tried to kill

chenhsi

SpyreX

attracted

elvis

farside hid with

elvis

PF spoke to The Internet

TSPN

visited The Internet
K7 sent

Mirth

to track Gurgi

Mirth died


Night 3

PF spoke to imajordan

TSPN

visited Muerrto
K7 sent

SpyreX

to track farside

elvis

tried to kill Muerrto
strappado watched Muerrto

SpyreX died


Night 4

K7 sent The Internet to track

TSPN

...

[imaginality]

I've re-read all the posts from Muerrto, The Internet, killa seven and farside22. Of those, The Internet, and to an extent K7, look more suspect than the others to me (though K7's lack of content makes it hard to get a good read on him). I found that Muerrto's posts came across better than I remembered, he's made some good points.

I'm going to re-read PokerFace, Lord Gurgi and strappado's posts later today, will sum up my thoughts after that.

[imaginality]

I wasn't visited by the bridgekeeper.

Farside's point about the bridgekeeper being unlikely to visit scum is a reasonable one. Part of my focus on The Internet is simply that of the people who have claimed night actions, their claims seem to stack up (i.e. hard to see how they could be lying about having the powers they've claimed). So I'm thinking if we have likely just one scum remaining, it's either The Internet, who hasn't roleclaimed yet, or else someone has the power they've claimed but has anti-town alignment. (If that's the case, I still think K7 is a good suspect.)

I'm okay with a full claim. I agree with you that it's not hard for the scum to figure out the remaining roles anyhow.

I'm The Sargeant. My night action is somewhat frivolous, I think: I can train someone to defend themselves against a fruit of my choice.

Night 1, Jordan trained PokerFace to defend himself against attackers armed with bananas.

Night 2, Jordan trained The Internet to defend himself against raspberries

Night 3, I trained farside to defend herself against satsumas

Night 4, I trained PokerFace again, this time against loganberries.


I'm now pretty sure there are no fruit-wielding attackers lurking in our midst (but hey, if there are any, you guys are safe... well, unless they come at you with a sharpened mango )

... on the other hand, I'm not entirely useless. Because I do have

a one-shot day-vig ability

- otherwise known as

a tiger

. I'm not totally in control of the tiger, but I've been promised that it should strike someone I suspect. I've not been told whether a tiger day-kill ends the day.

For most of the time since taking over from Jordan, I thought it was better not to hint at my role, since having a vig shot could be pretty handy late-game. That's why I was reluctant to give more than 'long' as a hint to PF earlier (hard to think of another word that would make PF think of bananas but not anyone else, and anyone thinking of bananas and Monty Python would immediately guess my character), though I did try to give another subtle hint here:

I am still considering whether to have another

shot

at proving to PF I know the skill he received, but I'm thinking it may be better to

wait

.

(If you watch the video, the sargeant kills the first trainee by shooting him, and the second by dropping a weight on him.)

Trying to survive to late-game was also why I didn't try to be too obviously pro-town the last day or so (didn't want to get night-killed). But now that we have three scum dead already (plus elvis the kinda-SK also dead), and with the cult looking a lot like a red herring, I see less need to try to semi-lurk through to the endgame. So I've decided to claim now and hopefully help our chances to figure out who the remaining scum is today.

[imaginality]

Nope, I got nothing either. (And since PF confirmed I trained him last night, that means that if you're telling the truth, you're not a roleblocker unles you got roleblocked yourself.)

[imaginality]

Now that everyone has full-claimed, I think strappado should say who she watched night 2 and last night.

[imaginality]

Oops, forgot, she watched Lord Gurgi last night. Just night 2 then.

[imaginality]

The Internet, did you get notified of me targeting you during night 2 (training you in the art of defending yourself against attackers armed with raspberries)?

[imaginality]

PokerFace, Jordan/I definitely targeted The Internet night 2 and farside night 3 rather than the other way around.

However, there's an (in my opinion quite likely) sequence of events for night 2 that doesn't involve a scum roleblocker:

SpyreX attracted elvis and The Internet protected SpyreX from being killed by elvis

and

Azimuth blocked me. (He had expressed some suspicions of JordanA24, so I think it's fairly possible he would have chosen to block him/me.)

(I doubt Mirth blocked me based on my theory that 'self-targeting roleblocker' redirects actions back to the person acting, so I would have been notified that I'd trained myself that night if she'd targeted me. (And if she'd blocked elvis, elvis would have killed himself.) I think it's most likely she targeted someone else that night.)


On night 3, either my action didn't work because farside was hiding, as farside suggeted, or else it's possible that SpyreX attracted me (he died, and we don't know who he targeted).


Your thoughts about who could be cult recruiter I agree with. I guess it is worth keeping it in mind but my money is on it being a red herring.

As for mafia, I think if there's one scum left, it's likely to be one of the following:

Muerrto - could be lying about his character. Against this, I don't think he's played particularly scummily, and the power he claimed was confirmed (he knew two people had visited him night 3).

Lord Gurgi - his claim isn't confirmed, and although he visits people to try to sell them the albatross, they apparently don't receive notice of his visit. That doesn't seem to fit with how PokerFace does get to talk to people to try to buy cigarettes. I've had a slight gut feeling about him being scum niggling at me, but haven't seen anything concrete to base my suspicions on. But the vagueness around what if anything his night action does, combined with the fact it's not confirmed in any way, makes me want to take a closer look back at his posts.

killa seven - while his action is obviously confirmed, choosing two players who got night-killed is unlikely enough to warrant some questions being asked. I can see the following points against him:

1. The "What did strappado do?" question - if he thought you were pro-town, asking that just led to more information being revealed, helping scum. Admittedly it also inevitably led to him having to roleclaim, but with him having a pro-town power, he wouldn't have been worried about that. (Arguably, the fact he wasn't worried about roleclaiming so early is suspicious in itself.)

2. Mirth died, SpyreX died - so the town got no information those nights. Easy, if scum, to target the player that the scum are going to kill. And unlikely if town. 2/11 (14 players, 2 killing roles, 3 scum) * 2/10 (12 players, 2 killing roles, 2 scum) is less than 4% chance.

Against this, last night he sent The Internet to track TSPN. He'd know TSPN visited elvis, so it's less obvious why he'd do this, unless for WIFOM reasons when TSPN roleclaimed bridgekeeper (if the bridgekeeper is scum, why would he visit the person the scum decided to night-kill; and if the town still happens to lynch TSPN anyhow, K7 looks more pro-town for having sent TI to track him).

I'm starting to doubt The Internet is scum just because it seems pretty likely he is doc (saving SpyreX from elvis night 2, plus his roleclaim is obv doc flavour), but I guess there is a chance of him being a scum-aligned doctor perhaps. (He saved SpyreX from elvis's kill, hasn't saved anyone from the scum kill.) Not sure how likely that role is.

[imaginality]

Yep - for what it's worth, I've never felt it to be at all likely that (a) there is a fruit-wielding attacker amongst us or (b) I'm a doc role, considering that the sergeant is the guy who kills the trainees in that sketch rather than someone else. One possibility I have wondered about is that perhaps the people I've trained might have gained protection from the tiger attack vig-shot that I have, but again that seems doubtful since they certainly weren't immune in the sketch.

[imaginality]

@ PokerFace: do you believe Muerrto has the power he claims (knowing how many people visit him during the night)? If so, that seems to fit with him claimed role... ?

@ killa seven, my theory is,

if

you are scum, your role may well say you *have* to target a townie to be the tracker, which would explain why you couldn't just send your scumbuddies to track townies.

[imaginality]

Thought: It looks likely there isn't a scum roleblocker.

If we agree about that, we should keep K7 alive, and lynch one of our other suspects (Gurgi,say).
Then, tonight K7 assigns someone to track one of the suspects, say, Muerrto. If Muerrto's scum, the tracker sees him make the night kill.
The Internet could protect whoever we decide the tracker should be (say PF). Strappado can watch The Internet. If doc dies - Strappado either is scum, or saw scum, so we've narrowed it to two suspects and we win. If doc doesn't die, hey, our doc's alive another day.

If someone else dies, we have one suspect (Muerrto) cleared, and can still afford a mislynch, so again it looks good for us.

This assumes there's no cult, of course. Which is why Gurgi or Muerrto should be the first lynch, as they could be either scum if there's no cult, or cult recruiter if there is a cult.

Thoughts on this plan of action, anyone?

[imaginality]

There's also "Don't get your knickers in a twist" which is the UK version of the phrase.

if Strappado were protected we wouldn't loose any info from watching or tracking if she were to die since she would be alive.

Yep, that makes sense.

--

Random Monty Python related video clip for amusement value: Michael Palin for President!

[imaginality]

Vote: Lord Gurgi

There's a chance he could be faking his PR, his claimed action is unconfirmed and doesn't make a whole lot of sense (LG selling something but no one knows he visited them vs PF buying something and people do know he visited them)...

Another point: I tend to believe chenhsi was telling the truth about his 2-shot NK-immunity. So that makes me less likely to think Muerrto is scum since he also appears to have had NK immunity (didn't get killed by elvis), and I don't see there being two scum with NK protection. 1 scum 1 town is much more likely.

K7 also went some way to allaying my suspicions with his post just now, and in any case as I argued earlier I don't think he should be today's lynch.

[imaginality]

I've only had a chance for a brief re-read of LG's posts (I'm at work at the moment), but here's something about play...

LG, in your post 61 (giving your assessments of other players), you said at the end of that post that the voting patterns made you 'heavily suspicious' of chenhsi. Why then did you only rate him as 3 (Neutral)?

I also notice you rated TSPN as 9 ('No Read') which at the time seemed reasonable... but looking back now knowing that TSPN was scum, makes me wonder if you wanted to avoid committing to an opinion about him.

[imaginality]

My main suspects are:

K7
LG
Muerrto

However as I've argued earlier I don't think K7 should be the lynch today, because by directing his night action as described earlier I'm pretty sure we can start tomorrow knowing the final scum is

definitely

one out of two suspects (depending what happens), and that's good enough for us to win. For that reason I favour an LG lynch (and would go along with a Muerrto one) rather than a K7 one today.

[imaginality]

K7's post today felt good to me too, I maybe should have listed LG above him in my list. As far as Muerrto goes, one point in his favour: when I reread his posts, I noticed that the arguments he made were always based on what a town player would know at the time; I didn't get any hints that he had any extra knowledge (of who was town and scum).

[imaginality]

Night 1: PokerFace
Night 2: The Internet
Night 3: farside22
Night 4: PokerFace

You said nothing happened to you when LG targeted you is this correct?

Yep, nothing happened to me (as far as I know).

[imaginality]

Which of the following are your suspicions of me based on, LG?

1 - gut feeling
2 - me pushing for your lynch
3 - me suggesting a way that town can usefully direct power roles tonight
4 - role-related reasons (the sergeant being somewhat of a bad guy)
5 - me not making a good case against you
6 - my/Jordan's play on previous days
7 - other

[imaginality]

I also notice you rated TSPN as 9 ('No Read') which at the time seemed reasonable... but looking back now knowing that TSPN was scum, makes me wonder if you wanted to avoid committing to an opinion about him.

I possibly misphrased it, what I meant by 'at the time seemed reasonable' was more that it didn't catch my attention at the time. It's not something I thought about then, but looking back at it now, knowing TSPN is scum, and looking back to see what others had said for or against him previously, I noticed that you were non-committal about him.



And now for something completely different...

But what makes you think Chenshi was telling the truth about him being able to survive night kills?

It fits with both his black knight claim ("Just a flesh wound!" and all that), and also the fact that there were three members of the inquisition hidden inside the knight's armour (he said he could survive two kills but the third would kill him). Also, apologies to chenhsi, but I'm not sure he'd be cunning enough to come up with it if it's a lie.

[imaginality]

Yes, it's true I didn't mention TSPN back then, but I never claimed to be commenting on everyone with those posts. Whereas LG's post did cover everyone.


Something I just noticed when looking back at that post just now:

Oh no... Mirth died...

Lucky its only 1 death...

Chenhsi
Plays the newbie card WAY too much. 11 of his 43 posts are more than one line. He isn't lurking exactly, but he's about as helpful as George Bush when a war is on.
Read: E3 {E3 = Stupid; Neutral}

chenhsi - Post 1 claims to be confused. Post 2 didn't see imaginality had a post restriction (funny). Post 3 question here: Why would you join a game if you had no clue on the subject of the theme? post up to 18 is a whole lot of nothing to say. There really isn't much to say about Chernhsi. He doesn't post anything helpful. Doesn't seem to know what is going on in the game and really if he doesn't get how to play or what is going probably should asked to be replaced. I know I'm going to get grief for this, but I don't think chernhsi is scum. I just don't think he plays mafia. It's anti town to not participate, but he is low on my list as far as scum go and I see this as an easy lynch for scum to jump on.

I think that there is nothing wrong on commenting on night kills...

[quote="Lord Gurgi"(post 1018)]Albatross!

Vote: Chenhsi. That's all I needed. Farside's making much sense.

Albatross![/quote]

LG, why did you go from a neutral read of chenhsi (which you gave after chenhsi had already made his start-of-day "oh no" post) to then voting chenhsi like that?

I assume the 'Farside's making much sense' remark was unrelated since farside said "I don't think chernhsi is scum... he is low on my list as far as scum go and I see this as an easy lynch for scum to jump on". So was your decision to vote chenhsi based purely on him saying that there's nothing wrong with commenting on night kills?

[imaginality]

Imaginality: Why do you support Muerrto and I to be lynched over killa seven based purely on roles, ignoring your (professed) suspicion of him, purely because of his role?

Because we can use his action to narrow down our suspects as I described earlier (or other variations of that). If everyone is opposed to directing power roles in that way, then okay, let's lynch him today. But it seems crazy to me not to use his (confirmed) tracker skill to narrow down our suspects more effectively than if we lynched him today.

This post makes me think that he is scum:

However as I've argued earlier I don't think K7 should be the lynch today, because by directing his night action as described earlier I'm pretty sure we can start tomorrow knowing the final scum is

definitel[/b]y one out of two suspects (depending what happens), and that's good enough for us to win. For that reason I favour an LG lynch (and would go along with a Muerrto one) rather than a K7 one today.

Which roughly translates to lynching people without play-based evidence, and entirely upon roles. That is scummy, because it relieves him of coming up with any good reasons that can be contested by the accused.

It's a tactical decision. We can use the confirmed roles to narrow down our suspects and win the game. No one's yet said why the method I suggested wouldn't work. If it's bad tactics, I'll change my stance, but as things stand I think lynching a suspect who's a confirmed whispering tracker over another suspect is an unnecessarily risky strategy.

Also, there has been a subtle change in his play style since he replaced. Call me crazy, but I think it’s because he’s scum now.

Nah, it's just that now I don't call everyone Bruce anymore, I get confused more easily.

Seriously though... when I took over from JordanA24, I looked back at his play and figured that he was biding his time, and wanting to appear vaguely suspicious so he wouldn't get night killed. I figured I'd go along with that (especially since for the first few weeks I was still just a temporary replacement for him, so I felt I had a responsibility to continue in similar vein), so I contributed somewhat less than I tried to when I was Bruce.

When elvis and TSPN both died last night, I figured that there was very likely only one scum left, and decided that it was better to claim. The advantages in terms of narrowing our suspects seemed to outweigh the disadvantage of revealing my role, and I figured that I'd come under suspicion if I didn't claim, so I thought it better to claim early rather than distract the town from going after the real suspects.

[imaginality]

Sure. My thinking is in regards to the bridge keeper that turned out to be scum. If I was scum with that role I would be looking for power roles and telling my scum buddies what I found out. The fact that 2 of the 3 people I felt were scum (you, muertto and LG) out of the 3, 2 had been visited by the BK. Granted he could have used that to his advantage, but I don't see that happening night 1 or night 2. Night 3 maybe, maybe use it as to distance, but I don't think so. I have a feeling the BK may have been looking for the cult themselves.

This is an interesting point. The questions seem to fit with that:

Night 1 - SpyreX
Who was your night target?
What is your ability?
What is your alignment?

Night 2 - The Internet
Are you mafia?
Are you cult?
Who are your partners if any?

Night 3 - Muerrto
Can you talk at night?
Do you have a night kill?
Are you the same alignment as chenhsi?

The change from night 1's questions to night 2's does suggest they were spooked by seeing a cult unrecruiter turn up. For me that's pretty good reason to regard The Internet as town. It seems very reasonable to think the scum were looking for cult that night.

I'm not so sure with Muerrto night 3, because it's more possible that by then the mafia may have decided the cult was a red herring. And if I was the bridgekeeper, I'd certainly at least consider targeting one of my teammates one of the nights, whether or not I thought the town will think I'm pro-town if I claim.


I'm also guessing that the bridgekeeper maybe wasn't allowed to ask the same question twice, which would explain why the night 3 questions were more indirect.

[imaginality]

@Imaginality, There's a chance I can possibly use my action to narrow down things on Muerto and Gurgi. What do you have to say to that considering your plans?

I think your plan of visiting Gurgi and vice versa is pretty unlikely to yield anything, though if we don't lynch him today there's no harm in trying it. Personally I would think you might have a better chance of success if you visit Muerrto again, if this time he does offer you cigarettes and matches - last night it sounds like he just replied to what he heard you say about cucumbers and oil rather than offer you the cigarettes.

Also since scum can send no kills in just about ever game setup I've seen I don't think your tracking and watching everybody plan will be gauranteed to have 100% success on finding scum especially on the slight chance there is more than one and they just don't send kills while we are watching. Your plan is a good play but there is a certain group of factors that can get involved and ruin things.

If no killing is the only way around the plan, then I don't see that as a flaw particularly, because we have eight players alive right now. We lynch one, that's seven. That's better than waking up with six left. We'll have removed one suspect (whoever we lynch today) and still have two mislynches left (rather than one if we have six players alive).

If there are other flaws in the plan then please point them out. Otherwise I don't see what we have to lose.

Obviously, if we're firmly convinced that e.g. K7 is the remaining scum, we might as well lynch him today rather than drag the game out, but it doesn't look like we have a clear consensus at the moment. If that's still the case as deadline approaches (about a week away, I think), I think

(1) lynching Gurgi or Muerrto, whichever we suspect more, and then
(2) applying the night actions plan I suggested is a better option than either

(1) lynching K7 (or TI or strappado) and/or
(2) choosing night actions individually rather than combining them to best effect in that way.

[imaginality]

EBWOP: As for if there are two scum, agreed, that could make things trickier (though how likely is 5 scum + SK in an 18-player game vs 4 scum + SK? The games I've read only had 4 scum) .

But even in that case I think the directed targeting has some advantages over non-directed, the main downside is we'd be in milo already tomorrow if scum kill tonight. It doesn't completely break the plan though, I think... (I'll check my notes and write a longer post later this evening explaining why.)

[imaginality]

Eight players left:

Almost certainly town
PokerFace
farside22

Could be scum
The Internet
strappado
imajordan
killa seven
Lord Gurgi
Muerrto

Today we lynch Lord Gurgi.

Tonight:

K7 sends PokerFace to track Muerrto
The Internet protects PokerFace
strappado watches The Internet

Possible outcomes (I'm assuming here that farside22 is unlikely to be targeted/killed because she can hide):

(A) imajordan is killed

- if PF didn't see Muerrto visit imajordan, Muerrto is cleared
- if PF saw Muerrto visit IJ, Muerrto is scum

Assuming Muerrto is cleared
- 6 alive; remaining suspects are K7, strappado, and The Internet.

lynch strappado, get TI to protect PokerFace, get K7 to assign PF to track TI

- if PF killed, TI is scum
- if K7 is killed, TI is scum
- if someone else is killed, TI is cleared/scum according to tracker results; if cleared, K7 is scum

(B) K7 is killed

- Muerrto either scum or cleared, as above

Assuming Muerrto is cleared
- 6 alive; remaining suspects are strappado, The Internet, IJ

IJ uses his vig shot to confirm himself (scum with day vig pretty unlikely) and kill one of the other two suspects

- if wrong one killed by tiger, worst case, 4 alive the next day with one known scum

(C) strappado is killed

- Muerrto either scum or cleared

Assuming Muerrto is cleared
- 6 alive; remaining suspects are K7, The Internet, IJ

IJ uses his vig shot to confirm himself and kill one of the other two suspects

- if wrong one killed by tiger, worst case, 4 alive the next day with one known scum

(D) The Internet is killed

- strappado saw scum visit
- 6 alive; scum is either person strappado saw or strappado (if lying)

lynch one of the two that day and if necessary the other the next day

(E) Muerrto is killed

- 6 alive; remaining suspects are K7, The Internet, IJ, strappado

lynch strappado, get TI to protect PokerFace, get K7 to assign PF to track TI

- if PF killed, TI is scum
- if K7 is killed, IJ uses vig shot to confirm himself and kill TI
- if someone else is killed, TI is cleared/scum according to tracker results; if cleared, IJ uses vig shot to confirm himself and kill K7


(F) PokerFace is targeted and saved by The Internet, or scum try to kill farside22 but she hides successfully, or scum choose to no kill

- 7 alive; remaining suspects are K7, The Internet, IJ, strappado, Muerrto

lynch Muerrto, if he's not scum, repeat night actions but with K7 assigning PF to track strappado

worst case, farside22 gets killed somehow, leaving 5 alive

- if strappado not scum, IJ uses vig shot to confirm himself and kill K7 or TI; if necessary lynch the other one the following day


Now, if we have two scum left:

(F) is okay for us, we narrow the scum down to two with five remaining
(C) is okay, I kill scum with my vig shot (if I refuse to vig, I get lynched, obv)
(B) is okay, same reason
(A) 2/3 chance (2 scum from 3 suspects)
(D) 50/50 (2 scum from 4 suspects)
(E) 50/50 (2 scum from 4 suspects)

In cases A, D, and E it's possible that if we no-lynch that day we might be able to improve the odds further but I haven't looked into that in detail.

So, as I see it, our chances of winning with this approach are at least

100% x P(one scum left) + 50% x P(two scum left)

If you think there's say, 80% chance that this set-up would have four scum (and an SK) rather than five and an SK (in other words, one in every five 18-player setups with SK would have five scum in it), that gives us at least a 90% chance of winning by employing this approach.

Pretty tricky to calculate what the comparable probability would be with night actions chosen individually, but I'd be surprised if it's better than 90%.

So, long story short, that's why I'm in favour of directing night actions according to this approach tonight, which would mean lynching either Muerrto or Lord Gurgi today.

And even if we don't go with this approach, I think lynching K7 (or strappado) today would be unnecessarily risky (when they could well catch scum in the act tonight), unless we've got clear reasons to believe the lynchee is significantly more likely to be scum than either Gurgi or Muerrto.

[imaginality]

Sure, as I said earlier, this plan can work with lynching either you or Muerrto today. I used you as today's lynch in the examples, and I personally am a bit more suspicious of you than Muerrto, but if the consensus is that Muerrto is more likely to be scum than you, I have no problem with lynching him today rather than you.

[imaginality]

1) Farside hides behind someone scum kills. Farside and another player dies shortening our numbers. What effect would that have on your plans?

I'm not sure how likely it is that the scum kill would work like that, but assuming it does, the obvious solution is: farside22 hides with you. You're doc protected so most likely that means no chance either of you are killed (if you are, we know The Internet is scum). If by some bizarre reason you don't get killed but farside22 does in that scenario, then it's just the same as case A in my list above.

(Incidentally, as a side-note: my plan has you as the person K7 assigns as tracker (rather than strappado as you suggested earlier) because there's still a chance strappado is scum so we'd be less able to rely on the results (she could lie) whereas everyone agrees that you're town.)

2) I think you may already got this one covered considering who first lynch is between (Too sleepy and drunk to make sure you covered it so far), but let's say we are all wrong and there is a cult. (Very slim chance yes but hypothetically) Only way cult wouldn't win would be if we lynched the recruiter now or the mafia killed them at night. I don't know about you, but I definatly don't want to rely on mafia help.

I think if there is a cult, Lord Gurgi or Muerrto are the most likely (maybe only?) remaining suspects for cult recruiter?

Albatross!

I've a huge problem with Imagordan settling for either lynch.

Albatross!

Of course I'd prefer we lynch correctly today, and I want us to choose the scummier of the two of you.

But given that I figure we have something like a 90% chance of winning even if we lynch wrongly (as long as we lynch one of the two of you and follow the plan I've outlined), I'm not going to refuse to lynch Muerrto if the majority of the others decide he's the scummier of the two of you.

At the moment I feel you're more likely to be scum, but I could be wrong. I'm going to re-read the posts from both of you over this weekend (with an open mind) so my position might change. And of course I'll try to argue for lynching whichever of you I find scummier.

But I'm strongly opposed to lynching a third person who's not either you or Muerrto unless

(a) there's compelling evidence that the third person is scum, strong enough that we feel this plan is just a waste of time that would drag the game out unnecessarily and we should just lynch the scum
(b) someone finds a flaw in my plan (and the evidence against the third person is better than that against you or Muerrto) or
(c) people are too suspicious of the concept of directing night actions to go along with the plan even though they can't see anything wrong with it (and the evidence against the third person is better than that against you or Muerrto).

[imaginality]

I still think K7 is scum...
I dont have any feeling about LG one way or the other, is there a way you could make a plan that involves lynching K7 instead?

We wouldn't be able to narrow the suspects down in such a surefire way if we lynch him first, and lose the ability to track someone... but the plan

does

involve lynching (or vig-killing) K7...

if

he's scum. Just not lynching him today. The plus side of the plan is that it also guarantees us catching and killing whoever the real scum is, no matter who, on the off-chance you're wrong about K7.

[imaginality]

1 - Yes, definitely only once

2 - Only during the day, not at night

3 - Yes, I asked, and I was told that I can't be told whether or not it will end the day. With my plan I've assumed it definitely ends the day (worst-case), so if we still get to lynch, then that's a bonus. And would mean the plan is 100% guaranteed to work even if we do still have two scum left.

4 - Hypothetically, if there were a fruit-wielding attacker my guess is that you would be protected, and quite likely you'd kill the attacker in self-defence (as happens in the sketch) - I only think shaft.ed would write a scene about it if the latter was the case.

Mind you, I think there's 0% chance of there being a fruit-wielding attacker. And also since Jordan and I were able to freely choose what fruits to train you for, the chances of the attacker choosing to attack you with those particular fruits would be so low that it would be a pretty useless protective skill even if there was such an attacker.

5 - No, haven't heard of that role. I've just tried a forum search for it but that didn't seem to throw up anything relevant.

If you think I could have a day-vig shot and yet still be mafia, I'm pretty sure all the above scenarios I would still be caught if I'm the scum (given that there's no way I'd have a scum buddy because 5 mafia, one with a vig shot, as well as an SK, would be just too overpowered).

Hope that helps, happy to answer any other questions...

[imaginality]

It's interesting to contrast Muerrto's reaction to my plan with Lord Gurgi's. Muerrto seems okay with it, and not too concerned about being the first one lynched. LG has reacted strongly against my plan but not actually said why it wouldn't work, just that we should be scum hunting instead of using our power roles to our best advantage.

LG's reaction reminds me of something I read about how scum often overreact when they think they're going to get lynched for what they see as the 'wrong reasons'. Especially "This plan is merely an excuse for bad Scum hunting".

And also post 1736:

Why exactly can't I be cleared through that plan Imagordan?

You'd be the

very first

player to be cleared through my plan as described - if you flip town when we lynch you.

I think what you meant was "Why can't I be cleared without having to be lynched?" which is a reasonable question (and which I answered, you can, if we choose to lynch Muerrto first), but again shows that you're reacting to the plan by focusing on the question of your own survival, rather than its strength or flaws as a plan.

[imaginality]

I think what you meant was "Why can't I be cleared without having to be lynched?" which is a reasonable question (and which I answered, you can, if we choose to lynch Muerrto first), but again shows that you're reacting to the plan by focusing on the question of your own survival, rather than its strength or flaws as a plan.

I object to you omitting that option in the plan.

I did mention it, in that very post:

From the long post with the plan (my post 99):

that's why I'm in favour of directing night actions according to this approach tonight, which would mean lynching either Muerrto or Lord Gurgi today.

(See also my posts 86, 90, 98.)

[imaginality]

To confirm, these are the night actions for tonight, assuming we go ahead with the plan and lynch Gurgi (or Muerrto):

K7 - assigns PokerFace to track Muerrto (or to track Gurgi, if we lynch Muerrto)

The Internet - protects PokerFace

strappado - watches The Internet

farside22 - hides with PokerFace or doesn't hide with anyone (her choice)

PokerFace - can visit whoever he chooses except The Internet (so strappado only sees 1 person visit The Internet if he is killed)

imajordan - can visit whoever he chooses except The Internet (so strappado only sees 1 person visit The Internet if he is killed)

Lord Gurgi (if not lynched) - because he is being tracked that night, he should only visit PokerFace (who is doc protected) - so he can't kill, say, me, and claim he was just randomly visiting me

If I get night killed tonight, the night actions for tomorrow are in my post 99, but I'll repeat that part here, just so nothing goes awry:

If I'm killed:

- if PF didn't see Muerrto/Gurgi (whichever is still alive) visit imajordan, Muerrto/Gurgi is cleared
- if PF saw Muerrto/Gurgi visit IJ, Muerrto/Gurgi is scum

If Muerrto/Gurgi is cleared, the remaining suspects are K7, strappado, and The Internet. In that case, lynch strappado.

And during the night:

TI protects PokerFace,
K7 assigns PF to track TI

- if PF is killed, TI is scum
- if K7 is killed, TI is scum
- if someone else is killed, TI is cleared/scum according to tracker results; if cleared, K7 is scum

[imaginality]

I'll admit at this moment I am partly irked by the idea I won't auto win through Gurgi or Muerto with however my tobaconist stuff really works in shaft.ed's grand scheme of things.

You can still visit Muerrto tonight if you want to, that doesn't interfere with the plan.

[imaginality]

Well I'm keeping my vote on Gurgi. Muertto would be my second choice. I think Imagine's idea works.

I endorse this product or service.

[imaginality]

Well PF, I'm sure that, at this point, the town is going to lynch one of Muerrto and I, and I don't think Muerrto is scum, so I will not vote for him. If that's not the case, tell me.

Whether or not you're fairly sure that Muerrto is town doesn't matter - since you're 100% sure that

you

are town. If you are. So voting yourself is illogical.

The only way self-voting makes sense is if you do want us to go ahead with my plan and don't think we'll reach a lynch of you or Muerrto before deadline unless you vote for yourself.

[imaginality]

As far as I'm concerned, I'd rather be lynched, than lynch someone I think is town.

You'd rather lynch someone you know is town (you) than someone you think is town?

[imaginality]

Knew I was onto something with Gurgi.

Strappado, who did you see visiting The Internet?

[imaginality]

I'm reluctant to use the tiger already because I agree with strappado that there's no need to rush, even though everything's pointing at Muerrto being scum. Especially since we have two witnesses not just one.

That black knight theory of yours makes much sense, PF.

Muerrto, want to come clean? We promise to lynch you swiftly and painlessly if you do. That's gotta be better than being mauled to death by a tiger.

Vote: Muerrto

[imaginality]

I trained Muerrto to defend himself against kiwifruit-brandishing villains. (Muerrto, care to confirm this?)

It's pretty simple now, Muerrto is saying he didn't visit The Internet, PokerFace is saying he did. We lynch Muerrto and if he comes up town then PokerFace is lying scum. Very unlikely - PF's analysis just above pretty much sums it up for me too - but hey, we still win either way.

[imaginality]

Yep, it was. I think farside22 is just being cautious in case PF was trying to pull a fast one on us.

[imaginality]

5 scum plus SK plus SK-of-sorts seems too unlikely.

I think this is game over, we win. If it's not, PokerFace can meet my friend the tiger tomorrow.

[imaginality]

wonders if your training skill use one him possibly makes him imune to tiger.

Yeah, I wondered that too. That's why I didn't use it on a different person each night. Was pretty sure you and farside were town. Didn't want to use it on someone else and then find it protected them from the tiger.

(Used it on Muerrto last night because if he was scum we'd caught him anyway. And being able to defend himself against kiwifruit attacks ain't gonna save him from the lynch.)

[imaginality]

Good game all!

This was definitely the most entertaining game I've played on here. I had a lot of fun day 1 as Bruce (sadly though I didn't get to post my scumlist (probable scum: Bruce, Bruce... possible scum,: Bruce, Bruce, Bruce... etc.) and I was very glad to get the chance to replace back in for JordanA24. Thank you to the scum team, for agreeing to me replacing back in.

I think PF's posts were really valuable in terms of keeping us as town on track, thought you really did a good job. Also wow, The Internet, your successful protects helped a lot.

Yeah, Darla was unlucky she chose to fake a PR. I was impressed how well Lord Gurgi kept up his fake PR despite coming under pressure at one point.


Full credit to shaft.ed for the interesting roles, great flavour and all-round good modding. Very impressed.

[imaginality]

Also imagJordan's tiger kill was designed for instances with an "extra" townie at LyLo. I was curious if he'd try to use it in such a situation.

Actually the tiger did come in useful, even though I didn't release it. Because I wasn't sure how broad the 'someone you suspect' in the role PM was, I figured that the best way to ensure the tiger didn't kill the wrong person would be if we were able to narrow down the possible suspects logically. If no-one but A or B could be scum . Thinking of ways we could narrow down the suspects is how I came up with the plan for the night actions.

[imaginality]

PF's question to me came through as:

Your back hair is soft and supple like a goat.

I replied:

Yes, I can sell you cigarettes and a book of matches.