Baton Pass [Game Over!]

[Cephrir]

Top of the morning.

I anticipate that at some point somebody will try to control the entire baton chain. I wish to suggest that, at least for now, we not do this and instead play in the spirit of the setup. Get some organic information.

I'm not sure that specifically "going for the baton" is a strategy scum will undertake or care about.

That is all at this time.

[Cephrir]

Oh right. Another reason I'm suggesting that is that at some point, a townie will disobey the plan, because they always do, and be lynched for it. Let's not do that.

[Cephrir]

It's ok not to have good reads on page 4

[Cephrir]

I guess we can pretend this game is so easy that we've already won if we want to make certain we lose

Bathe me in your meta dumpster juices because you think you're a pro, I live for it

[Cephrir]

Why is every single game onsite about people with 2 games of meta thinking they're pro at reading each other now

Dont make me be grumprir this game I dont want to

[Cephrir]

I'm going to sheep someone on Cephrir, just need to figure out who knows him best.

Look I can be fun or I can be spiteful the choice is yours

Hi sakura

[Cephrir]

Are you just making these posts to troll me

[Cephrir]

Look I can be fun or I can be spiteful the choice is yours

Would it reflect on your alignment at all?

I'm not sure, I think I've done all four combinations

[Cephrir]

I do apologize for the salty response though, I thought that was likely GIF who did nothing but tunnel me in Undertale and got me killed in the most asinine way possible.

"I apologize for being salty; here is some more salt"

[Cephrir]

Look I can be fun or I can be spiteful the choice is yours

Would it reflect on your alignment at all?

I'm not sure, I think I've done all four combinations

Was there a specific combination you preferred more as either alignment?

My favorite way to play the game is town and fun
My second favorite way to play the game is scum and fun
I dont want to be a jerk but some peoples playstyles really set me off and then my primary motivation for playing becomes smashing those players which usually results in mutual scumreads that are based more on dislike than actual reads

[Cephrir]

Sassing* those players

Sass is valid, phone.

[Cephrir]

Why is every single game onsite about people with 2 games of meta thinking they're pro at reading each other now

Dont make me be grumprir this game I dont want to

Who are you directing these old man rants at?

Everyone thus far who has expressed confidence in any read or said the word "townspew" (btw, a lame turn of phrase)

I'm doing it already arent I

Ugh

[Cephrir]

Thanks for the straight answer Cephrir. Do you have any reads yet?

Nothing confident. I like gay dance a little (I realize this is not exactly a revolutionary read) and maybe you a little.

[Cephrir]

imagine people having a town read on us and not voting us

lmao

VOTE: Cephrir

Does that help?

[Cephrir]

If people are going to knee jerk refuse us for round 1 baton then I'm going to hold off on playing until the round 1 baton is over.

Just play the game no one is even doing this yet

As an additional note, if we're not planning all the baton passes as a group together we're wasting the potential town equity of this setup.

Let's not do this please

Why wouldn’t we? As long as one person isn’t just overriding everyone it potentially gives more information + greater accuracy.

I dont agree that it gives more information. It specifically deletes information.

Also, it's not fun. I like fun.

[Cephrir]

I accept that we are going to just make it a lynch like a bunch of unfun sticks in the mud by day 3 but I'd like to do one or two by the seat of our pants for info and for fun

[Cephrir]

not sure what GIF thinks of CC yet but I told him I somewhat town read that slot so he may or may not agree

Pls stop having confident reads on RadiantCowbells after 4 posts. You have to know that is not reasonable. I have seen this movie several times.

[Cephrir]

So Wisdom if nacho is 100% getting shot over RC, then if RC gets shot N1 what does that tell you.
If Nacho's BP you cant gleam info from that.

This idea that only nacho and RC are eligible for night 1 kills is deeply silly.

[Cephrir]

As someone who's never played with or even seen Nacho, what is Nacho like nine times out of ten?

I am not answering this stupid question

Play this game, dont rehash games that have already been played

[Cephrir]

It would be easier to coordinate if we just agree on 3 "universal scumreads" today.

3 instead of 2 because fun reason

Yeah universal scumreads are never town

[Cephrir]

lynch anyone who deviates from it.

Absolutely not.

[Cephrir]

So Wisdom if nacho is 100% getting shot over RC, then if RC gets shot N1 what does that tell you.
If Nacho's BP you cant gleam info from that.

This idea that only nacho and RC are eligible for night 1 kills is deeply silly.

Well yes, but i rather just BP my strongest townread than BP someone because they carry a certain name.

I agree

[Cephrir]

Yukz this line is taking the game in a shitty circlejerk direction and you're the one forcing it to be that way. can you not

[Cephrir]

Yukz this line is taking the game in a shitty circlejerk direction and you're the one forcing it to be that way. can you not

Do you have a better suggestion in how to push and challenge people?

Just stop talking about RC

[Cephrir]

Ugh I dont know I just dont want this to become a game where RC is the primary point of contention those games are the absolute worst

[Cephrir]

It sounds like a great way to lynch all the low charisma players regardless of their alignment

I'll give you that my post there is stupid

[Cephrir]

It sounds like a great way to lynch all the low charisma players regardless of their alignment

I'll give you that my post there is stupid

How many people in this game do you consider as low charisma players?

At least two and a half, plus there are some people I dont know

[Cephrir]

It sounds like a great way to lynch all the low charisma players regardless of their alignment

I'll give you that my post there is stupid

How many people in this game do you consider as low charisma players?

am i low charisma

Quite possibly

[Cephrir]

Why would we do that?

[Cephrir]

You should probably lead with that part

[Cephrir]

obvtown players are nightkill targets by definition

scum love shooting the irrelevant innocent child first if the game state isn't going poorly for them

[Cephrir]

I anticipate that at some point somebody will try to control the entire baton chain. I wish to suggest that, at least for now, we not do this and instead play in the spirit of the setup. Get some organic information.

There's going to have to be some level of coordination involved in order to get the best chance of winning. I think pressuring people to make good passes and trying to get some universal townreads/scumreads down is far more intelligent than everyone just shooting their shot.

I know, I just don't wanna. <_>

[Cephrir]

obvtown players are nightkill targets by definition

scum love shooting the irrelevant innocent child first if the game state isn't going poorly for them

I'm always obvtown but scum never shoot me :>

They (we, on occasion) always think they'll be able to lynch you later.

[Cephrir]

obvtown players are nightkill targets by definition

scum love shooting the irrelevant innocent child first if the game state isn't going poorly for them

My point was that I wasn't concerned with giving an irrelevant innocent child a bulletproof.

Idk I kinda like it but that's ok!

[Cephrir]

Top of the morning.

I anticipate that at some point somebody will try to control the entire baton chain. I wish to suggest that, at least for now, we not do this and instead play in the spirit of the setup. Get some organic information.

I'm not sure that specifically "going for the baton" is a strategy scum will undertake or care about.

That is all at this time.

Why not? I think that’s entirely NAI.

It kind of seems like you're agreeing with me here.

[Cephrir]

If the baton doesn’t get passed to them, you all are gamethrowing.

Can we not be like this?

[Cephrir]

It's odd to me that people are continually surprised by the pace of large games when they have presumably played one before

[Cephrir]

Does anyone feel strongly reading another player? If so, how viable would it be to make a chain of players by having all post which players in this game they feel comfortable reading (and if some feel comfortable with none, then give them certain players who have a tendency to spew). Then we build a chain, where each player in the sequence is responsible for reading the player after them -- if they trust them as town, they pass the baton, if they do not trust them as town, they skip that player in the chain, and we will come back at the end of the day.

You want to make this game about everything that I hate about the state of this website.

Not one solitary person is as much of a meta genius as they think they are. This is the worst suggestion I have read in a mafia game this year.

[Cephrir]

how do those of you who aren't unreasonable about this issue not get frustrated every time you see it happening?

i just want to play mafia and not Meta Connect Four.

[Cephrir]

I think you don't fully understand my suggestion, then?

I'm not trying to take advantage of MS players as "meta-geniuses," I'm trying to apply greater responsibility to players. This isn't a ploy to make town find town, this is outing scum by making them take responsibility for their actions in greater regard than usual.

It's exactly the same as playing the setup naively (i.e. pass to your townread) except that you've assigned everyone a meta padawan for some reason

[Cephrir]

We can't do rigid chain creation. Someone with an ego will break it and then we'll waste the entire rest of the game arguing about whether to lynch them for it.

[Cephrir]

Explain, please, how the way you want to play the game is executively different? Give me examples of how your idea of how the game goes down differs from my idea of how the game goes down/

The only difference is that your plan says we can only pass to predetermined players we're "comfortable reading."

Also, I admit my desired way to play the game is probably suboptimal but I want to have fun more than I want to win and I know no one is going to listen to me.

[Cephrir]

if we're gonna play this setup the jaded way it's basically just mountainous triple day except that i can't have the catharsis of voting for YukzYuk right now.

[Cephrir]

Or we could lynch them. We're lynching 10 players anyway during this game. I have no problem with potentially having to lynch a townie to make sure that scum have no special control over the lynches.

I won't agree to this and I'm probably not alone. :hitoshrug:

[Cephrir]

why sign up for this game if your goal is to destroy its central conceit ugh

[Cephrir]

i'm just gonna do something else for a while and come back in the hopes i'll be able to be less negative.

[Cephrir]

OkaPoka
Dunnstral
Firebringer
MariaR
Alisae
Kagami
popsofctown
Creature
Shiro

---

I think Yukz is one of the above players.

I don't really take pleasure in althunting, but I don't think they sound like Kagami, and they can't be Shiro because they are posting.

I was going to vote Shoshin but now my scumread has beaten me to it so I don't feel like it anymore.

I'm not comfortable with the suggestion that we lynch Wisdom yet. I'm not town on him, but it seems a bit fast to me. I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable with any strong lynch suggestions at all at this time.

[Cephrir]

Then what are you comfortable with? What do you want to see town doing if not suggesting who to kill.

Suspicion is fine, I'm just a bit alarmed that we're already saying things like "we should lynch X and Y today."

[Cephrir]

VOTE: Something_Smart

[Cephrir]

Then what are you comfortable with? What do you want to see town doing if not suggesting who to kill.

Suspicion is fine, I'm just a bit alarmed that we're already saying things like "we should lynch X and Y today."

I think it's implicitly stated that these comments are "as things are" and open to change if something happens that should change them.

I guess.

People exaggerate a lot in mafia and I typically am overly honest if anything. It throws me for a loop.

[Cephrir]

VOTE: Something_Smart

I think this is a very poor choice for first baton. No offense to SS but I doubt scum kill him.

I'm just voting my townreads as a statement at the moment, I guess

[Cephrir]

VOTE: Something_Smart

I think this is a very poor choice for first baton. No offense to SS but I doubt scum kill him.

I'm pretty sure it is because Ceph is scum, but that's just me

That's a take

Scum Ceph is a scary thought.

It is? Do I know you?

[Cephrir]

If I were voting for a reputation I'd vote for Nacho, but I don't really see the need to do that when I'm not townreading any of the big players yet

[Cephrir]

Ask yourself if this content is accomplishing anything before you comment on every 4th post in the entire game

[Cephrir]

Scumcho is a slow and insidious killer.

[Cephrir]

Someone who knows the deep cephlore... Are you called "goodies" because you're oldies? 0:

[Cephrir]

Oh good I see we're in for a good time here

Love it

[Cephrir]

I think you've just forgotten how to deal with players who dont worship you

[Cephrir]

I can happily assure you I dont get along with egos under any circumstances

[Cephrir]

Mmm tunnel me daddy it feels so good

[Cephrir]

-E

Ceph you can't just say words like "tunnel" to try and dismiss arguments against you just because you don't like being the target of a push.

Yeah this seems like the type of thing that's gonna just get dropped and I'm sure he wont be shoving it down everyone's throats for the next 40 pages

[Cephrir]

I'm sorry, who are you accusing of worshiping him?

A considerable percentage of the site

[Cephrir]

-E

Ceph you can't just say words like "tunnel" to try and dismiss arguments against you just because you don't like being the target of a push.

Yeah this seems like the type of thing that's gonna just get dropped and I'm sure he wont be shoving it down everyone's throats for the next 40 pages

Oh you're right. My bad, please do tell me more about RC's meta in recent games - especially link me to recent games where he's shoved it down people's throats for 40 pages.

I do like your meta analysis of RC, though. I'm glad that you're good at meta'ing him enough to not only read him accurately, but also tell me what he's GOING to do.

I do admit I was a bit confused by you earlier, I thought you were saying no MS player really knows how to meta other players as well as they think they do, but now I realize you were talking about every player except yourself.

Did I do something to you? Buzz off.

[Cephrir]

Also, if I'm wrong on you, you should talk to me person to person instead of making jabs at my personality and my reputation.

I'm pretty sure you should see my issue with Shoshin's interactions with you regardless of your alignment, especially if you see yourself as a threatening townie who scum would want to pocket.

Maybe later.

[Cephrir]

Yeah still have no idea why you're so upset

[Cephrir]

I'm so glad I play this fun game to get shat on and insulted every time

[Cephrir]

Yeah I really super crossed a ton of lines and was extremely awful

[Cephrir]

Rn I do feel like this stalling is so that scum can figure out a response to the gamestate, so I expect ~big things~ from Shoshin and Ceph soon.

Dont, lol

This is a pretty lame post, since if I were scum it would alert me to stop whatever amazing master plan I had

[Cephrir]

I am pretty shocked this is meeting with agreement

[Cephrir]

I am pretty shocked this is meeting with agreement

You still haven't responded to the merits of the Shoshin case even if you claim/know that you are town.

I havent read it and I'm in bed

[Cephrir]

I am pretty shocked this is meeting with agreement

Are you shocked im sheeping an RC i townread?
You shouldnt be.

I do expect half an iota of critical thought from you, yes. I've enjoyed working with you in the past.

[Cephrir]

scum Cephrir mostly took backseat and sassed at people

I'm sure nacho would be happy to inform you that, at baseline, this is a hallmark of my town game and if I do it as scum it's to imitate myself.

[Cephrir]

so you're taking potshots at a case that you haven't even read, good to know actually.

I mean I can see your conclusion is wrong, so yes?

[Cephrir]

how do you know critical thought isn't happening if you don't know the case that's being sheeped

Doesnt the word sheep literally mean thinking did not occur

[Cephrir]

1/3 of her ISO being about you makes you probable scumbuddies.

This is genuinely a hot take to me. I would've said the opposite is more likely.

[Cephrir]

But I mean, you've caused someone else. I'm not about to start defending them because of your sick unflipped associatives. I'll find out later if it impacts my shoeshine read but since I'm apparently going to be lynched within 24 hours I cant see much point to focusing on it now

[Cephrir]

Cased*

[Cephrir]

1/3 of her ISO being about you makes you probable scumbuddies.

This is genuinely a hot take to me. I would've said the opposite is more likely.

It's really weird to talk that much about any one player but it does make a lot of sense if you're buddies trying to spew each other not scumbuddies based on the logic you yourself are employing.

Doesnt really seem like an ironclad case to me lol
The game is like a day old you're talking about a large percentage of a small number of posts

Note that I have not isoed shoshin to fact check your claim

[Cephrir]

So Ceph, are you gonna do something that isnt "You're wrong" or "I do this as town" or are you gonna keep complaining.

Are you piling on the be mean to ceph train because you want me to give up?

[Cephrir]

So Ceph, are you gonna do something that isnt "You're wrong" or "I do this as town" or are you gonna keep complaining.

Are you piling on the be mean to ceph train because you want me to give up?

I expect this from some people, but I like you. :/

[Cephrir]

I dunno. You can push alternative scumreads or something.

That does sound like what I'd do to distract if I were scum, but I havent got any solid ones yet and I dont plan on inventing any.

[Cephrir]

And yet I said several times that I wasn't 100% on you, I just think your flip is super valuable because even if you're town it tells us for sure someone on the scumteam thinks the world of you and set Shoshin to pocket you.

I dont think scum do things like this.

I really, really dont, and I would bet a large sum of money no such statement appears in the scum thread even with the prior of shoshin scum.

Maybe they just started interacting with me because that was how they felt like approaching the game. Maybe they decided since I was warm on them I'd make a good ally. Maybe shoshin is town. Theres a world of possibility.

[Cephrir]

If me getting you to do shit to show me if RC is actually wrong is me being to you, then i rather be mean, than wrong.
I liked you more when you were shuichi.

Thanks. If you could aim the next kick at my head, that would be super.

[Cephrir]

I've been playing exclusively from my phone and I typically do more productive things from a computer

I also didnt sleep much last night because it was my first night on a cpap and I cant deal with having a mask strapped to my face. It's possible that this is making me sensitive and irritable.

I'll try again tomorrow.

[Cephrir]

Trying to avoid tackling the more subjective and more complicated metrics that make me think Shoshin/Cephrir is a SvS interaction
Shoshin decides she isn't going to try to read Cephrir (WHY?) and then spends 5 consecutive posts interacting with him.
The decision not to read him is weird scummy and makes sense coming from scum (doesn't want to have to take responsibility for a read) and the rest just feels like typical scum forcing interactions.

Even continuing the game, Cephrir's "I would vote Shoshin but my scumread is voting there" is super weird and super scumbuddyish.
I'm really just calling a spade a spade, this isn't some sort of megacomplicated read and I think that you guys would be seeing it if you were genuinely scumhunting these two.

wait is this all we're calling a "case" or was there something else i missed

maybe i haven't gotten to it yet

idk, ive been attacked in the past for happily voting alongside my scumreads, seems like you just can't win eh? i don't think it was tremendously weird that Yukz supporting a vote made me more wary of it.

sure, i'll give you that shoshin's interactions with me are a little strange.

i think your theory that they could be scum being coached to buddy me doesn't have legs, but i should point out that there is a small amount of supporting evidence for it, which is the "oh scum ceph is scary" post shoshin made. and i was weirded out by it at the time. i think this is less likely to be her trying to pocket me, though, than it is a possible response to some scumbuddy listing their impressions of every player and noting that i'm good.

[Cephrir]

idk why it was so important to you that i address something that is barely about me!
796 doesn't seem to me like a point that should have you locked down on scumshoshin forever. i feel like you're being extreme about what should be a mild read.

sorry for being a grump last night. there were definitely some very out of line and uncalled for hostile remarks aimed at me, but i should have responded more maturely.
sakura, i realize you didn't mean to be hurtful and i'm sorry for lashing out.

[Cephrir]

also, not to scummily complain about the pace, but the amount of pages generated at 3 am is like. yall need jesus.

[Cephrir]

especially if you see yourself as a threatening townie who scum would want to pocket.

i don't!

[Cephrir]

I do plan to meta Cephrir at some point, I just wasn't saying it because I knew nothing would offend him like threatening to meta read him.

meta is fine, it's just that the past couple years i've seen a lot of folks rely on it solely and refuse to reconsider incorrect reads because they're so convinced they know x player perfectly.

[Cephrir]

Okay so when I cite a large number of games where this happened do I get a large sum of money, or is this exclusively referring to it being you.

the former. i want the receipts.

[Cephrir]

UNVOTE:

-E

Not unvoting because I don't trust CeCo but I've been talking with my partner about... things and I'm rearranging the way I approach the game due to certain... realizations.

please don't make me feel like I need to make a momentum play to get BP day 1.

i just want to note, and please don't think this is me thinking cc is scum because i am not there, that getting the BP has high utility for RCscum as well because he'll want to explain why he's not dead

[Cephrir]

she was a near universal townread in this game despite being obvscum as well. I don't understand why you guys are townreading her. it makes no sense to me.
but i'm not going to let her outlive me.



no she's fucking scum how is it possibly easier for you to believe that i'm being an anti-town douchebag than that shoshin is just scum?

Because we have similar reads, she was doing +gamestate things by engaging with the conversation of who we should baton kill rather than spend like 10 posts complaining about the gamestate?

i don't really think "this person is playing mafia" is a sensible reason to townread someone

[Cephrir]

The only way I'm going to be okay with sheeping a nullread is if you are willing to take a BoP.

And even then I'm not sure if I'm okay with that.

disgusting

please kill this slot

[Cephrir]

As someone who's never played with or even seen Nacho, what is Nacho like nine times out of ten?

I am not answering this stupid question

Play this game, dont rehash games that have already been played

Say what Ceph?
What’s wrong with meta? Sure this is a weird way of going about it; before someone enters the thread. But why so opposed to such a simple question?

i get irritated by useless questions

if you want meta, do it yourself. no one can effectively encapsulate someone else's personality in a single post and it wouldn't even be useful if they could.

[Cephrir]

like in terms of more compromise-y lynches i think that goodies is scummy but aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa to this game

It’s funny but I think if you knew my bro in his meta you’d be townreading him out the wazoo. But anyway; we’re not going to mainslip, not even for personal gain. Nice of us, innit?

Oh, i know who you are now.

If you’re right on who I am, meta me, then. I’m the easiest person to read there ever was.

why be anonymous if you're going to do things like this

[Cephrir]

VOTE: Something_Smart

I do

not

understand.
Where did this come from?

I’ll finish rereading tomorrow.

i think he's town. pls excuse my lack of relatable trajectory. i just reassessed who i might like to vote for after i decided not to vote for shoshin.

[Cephrir]

@nacho thanks for the positivity.

i am starting to get towards wisdom-town, which makes me want to baton him. (oo look at my scary anti-CC scum agenda)

[Cephrir]

Like, if he read someone correctly 100% of the time so far as he states, assuming that he'll get it wrong this time is a gambler'a fallacy.

No one is assuming anything we're just playing mafia

I'd appreciate it if you could join the rest of us in not making assumptions. you're making an ass out of u and mptions.

[Cephrir]

By the way. I hate it when people worship RC as much as the next guy (though not many people have done it this game). But I'm really surprised at the number of people going "I don't understand RC's case on Shoshin so I'm going to ignore it and trust my own read there instead."

Like, I thought it was well-known that RC's ability to form good reads far outweighs his ability to explain them.

SS do you have a single townread

My earlier stated townreads on Gay Dance, Cephrir and Nacho still hold (though the Cephrir one specifically ignores RC for the moment because if I take RC into account I have no idea where it ends up).

You might be town too.

who are the three people youd kill if you had to choose right now? @s_s

That's not a helpful question.

Shoshin and Cephrir, and if Shoshin flips town then CC, otherwise Goodies.

UNVOTE:
Please explain this progression to me

[Cephrir]

if you townread Shoshin you should put more than a little faith in her read there.

:shrug:

i just don't put that much stock in others' reads. not that i don't care about them, they're a factor, and i might weigh some players' opinions a little more strongly than others. but i'm the only one i know is town.

[Cephrir]

i am starting to get towards wisdom-town, which makes me want to baton him. (oo look at my scary anti-CC scum agenda)

Why town Wisdom?

i don't want to say something lame like "i can always see where he's coming from" so i'll just say i felt town motivation between where i stopped reading last night and now

[Cephrir]

Please explain this progression to me

What RC said.

If RC is town, his reads are probably good, even though he can't explain why he has them.

Conversely, if his strong scumreads flip town, it makes him likely scum.

i object to this because of 1057.

you're putting him on a pedestal even though you just said you don't like that.

[Cephrir]

{Gay Dance}
{CC, Wisdom, SS, Sakura}
{Shoshin, Nacho, gameplay(?, can't remember anything he's posted)}
{Oversoul, Goodies, Dannflor}
{PMysterious, YukzYuk}

[Cephrir]

I don't think all players and all reads are created equal and I find it difficult to believe that you think that they should be treated equally.

i don't.
i guess i might be overreacting.

[Cephrir]

People actually "worshipping" me is a myth, I wasn't given respect without earning it.

i mean, people worship jesus because they believe he earned it, too

[Cephrir]

The only way I'm going to be okay with sheeping a nullread is if you are willing to take a BoP.

And even then I'm not sure if I'm okay with that.

disgusting

please kill this slot

Hmm?

did i stutter?

[Cephrir]

Gotta explain what's disgusting there

you'll be happy to collect a free cc lynch if shoshin flips town.
it allows you to support two lynches without having to even express a scumread on either player

that seems v town motivated.

[Cephrir]

I mean he still trs you so he is aware that there is town motivation

It's just when it's me it doesn't exist even when it doesn't even apply

i downgraded him from my top town tier for that, but i may be overreacting

i want to think your response here is scummy, but it isn't

[Cephrir]

i somehow like that post despite/because of it being mostly unintelligible

[Cephrir]

i somehow like that post despite/because of it being mostly unintelligible

Which post?

1404

[Cephrir]

I still see the case for Cephrir individually that I was underplaying for not so good reasons.

Have you made this case?

[Cephrir]

One of the biggest reasons that I scumread Wisdom actually is that he keeps putting rule of 3s with like Yukyukz/SS/Gameplay then he had a second one which I forget but it also had one of yukyukz/SS and he has gone to great lengths casing everyone in all the rules of 3 except the one that I actually scumread, ie gameplay.

This seems arbitrary to me. I don't feel like Wisdom has gone to great lengths for anything at all.

Have you made this case?

I have not and I actually don't want to see you lynched today regardless.

This is strange but I guess I won't argue with it.

[Cephrir]

oh. alright, sure.

[Cephrir]

1) your reaction to people wanting to flip wisdom was weird, can't say it's never a culture thing either though.

wisdom is among the strongest assets to town in this game

[Cephrir]

i'm often suspicious of confidence, but that is a reasonable feeling to have about it

[Cephrir]

2) you reacted to the scumread on you with a lot of AtE. not sure what it means either. certainly not what i expected but otoh my expectations could just as easily be the problem.

i'll just offer an explanation and then let it rest. i dont want this to be a central thing about the game. it's completely reasonable that this skeeves you out and i'm not asking you not to belabor the point just that i'm not really interested, personally, in talking about it beyond this.

my games the past few years (whether or not i've been town) have with a very high frequency followed one of two patterns. either i've been a general townread by the end of day 1, or i've had to fight my lynch tooth and nail every single day the whole game. you coming out anti-me was a big signal to me that this was going to be the latter, which is not my favorite experience, and generated some negativity. i don't think this would've lasted more than a few posts if negative posts from others had not made me feel worse.

[Cephrir]

Cici you get three kills before night

please don't reinforce this
i hope you're joking

[Cephrir]

Shoshin is not a reasonable baton today, I think that's pretty obvious.

[Cephrir]

Why...?

who the hell would nightkill that slot?

[Cephrir]

Why...?

who the hell would nightkill that slot?

I don’t know. Who are you voting for currently?

Nobody.

how do u guys have Oversoul as a town-read? I don't get you people.

You’re either scum or just bad for this comment. Probably scum by your early game I’d wager.

I agree with it, so stick me in your scumpile too.

[Cephrir]

you're just a prankster

I get it

[Cephrir]

I dont really get the gameplay hate either. Especially the parts that came before he was even here.

I understand nacho's point but feel uneasy about it coming from him when the same person is throwing off some lost-town vibes to me. I think it's possible he made a catch up post as he was going along and didnt have any particular agenda.

[Cephrir]

I dont like that I dont have any scumreads I feel great about. Just a few that I'm meh on.
Oversoul should be a stronger beacon. Like, not more, just brighter.
Dannflor is someone I could easily see as scum blending in and being generally unobjectionable not making any waves, mayhaps.

[Cephrir]

Ok, I guess I dont love 97 in conjunction with 116, though they seemed fine separately.

[Cephrir]

mod, is the deadline for baton selection only or will we also do the baton passing and lynch someone within this deadline?

[Cephrir]

I dont really get the gameplay hate either. Especially the parts that came before he was even here.

I understand nacho's point but feel uneasy about it coming from him when the same person is throwing off some lost-town vibes to me. I think it's possible he made a catch up post as he was going along and didnt have any particular agenda.

don't think gameplay's approach as scum here is going to be "follow a particular agenda", i think he's just going to be working to stay afloat.

where did you get lost-town vibes from him? i get lost vibes, but nothing that seems like it's likely to come from town

I liked some of 1497 and I didnt see anything wrong with saying "i hope people listen to me" but I guess this is valid

[Cephrir]

I dont really get the gameplay hate either. Especially the parts that came before he was even here.

I understand nacho's point but feel uneasy about it coming from him when the same person is throwing off some lost-town vibes to me. I think it's possible he made a catch up post as he was going along and didnt have any particular agenda.

don't think gameplay's approach as scum here is going to be "follow a particular agenda", i think he's just going to be working to stay afloat.

where did you get lost-town vibes from him? i get lost vibes, but nothing that seems like it's likely to come from town

although i will try to pump the brakes a bit when finishing the regfan buuuuuut i know it's gonna be hard for me to back off because this is my first substantive scumread in... years. so if you think he's town would love if you firm it up fast and come at me hard because otherwise the murdertrain will roll.

Murder away, I dont have that much and I'm kind of looking forward to seeing you work ^^

[Cephrir]

I would like to murder yukzuk
If I were a cop I would investigate Dann tonight 10 times out of 10, but as it is I could also roll with killing him

[Cephrir]

I dont want to kill Ceph, not yet anyway.
I think he can become pretty obvtown if he tries hard.
Specially when we start actually voting for lynch.

This is a reach out to you Ceph and an offer to reevaluate my read there if you can convince me you're not scum with your scumhunting.

I'll try
I feel like it's not something I can turn on deliberately but we'll see

[Cephrir]

Apparently everyone agrees on this slot dying

So it's like 80% town

[Cephrir]

Yukz, why am I scum? You've devoted a decent amount of posts to pushing me but I've seen zero thoughts from you on why

[Cephrir]

Ceph because he hasn’t been trying to gel with town

"I want to lynch cephrir because he is town"

[Cephrir]

I'm sorry you both want me out of the game because you dislike my personality lol

[Cephrir]

Shoshin how are you possibly town reading dann

[Cephrir]

@cc/sho I'm sorry but I dont think anyone cares about this

[Cephrir]

Will someone injure me if I point out that it's interesting he had the presence of mind to press caps lock while breaking
It seems like a hold down shift kind of situation

[Cephrir]

The above post is not to be taken seriously

[Cephrir]

I don't want to be a fascinating player from an anthropological point of view I just want to be able to play a game without being policy scumread or having a lengthy debate as to exactly what the quality level of my play is.

I'm not trying to be mean here but you make the idea that you're the best thing since sliced bread relevant to the game by insisting you have the sole power to lynch players and everyone should obey you

[Cephrir]

Dann is just unremarkable
Probably the fewest hints of towniness in his posts out of everyone because they're all boring

[Cephrir]

I don't want to be a fascinating player from an anthropological point of view I just want to be able to play a game without being policy scumread or having a lengthy debate as to exactly what the quality level of my play is.

I'm not trying to be mean here but you make the idea that you're the best thing since sliced bread relevant to the game by insisting you have the sole power to lynch players and everyone should obey you

Error: citation needed.

I could quote several of your posts in this game and considered trumping at you about this contradiction previously but I didnt think it was productive then and I still dont now

[Cephrir]

Grumping*

[Cephrir]

Dann has been a bit more aggressive this game than usual, actually.

yea wtf

im specifically trying to be more aggressive and assertive so that MG doesn't happen again and apparently Sakura reads that difference (or doesn't read it as it would seem) and says, oh I forgot Dann was in this game, let's kill him

kinda like this post

Me 2

[Cephrir]

Can I get a headcount on who is down for wisdom/gameplay deaths

HEAL: wisdom

[Cephrir]

I feel suddenly compelled to follow nacho to the ends of the earth. I dont agree with 1928 at all, though.

[Cephrir]

I would like to note that this is not a free town pass forever.

VOTE: Nacho

[Cephrir]

I was more or less resigned on the baton issue

[Cephrir]

If a majority are on that plan when we hammer, I will stick to whatever list we have made most recently.

[Cephrir]

I counted seven.

[Cephrir]

Sakura are you explicitly hammering wisdom or were you just saying you didnt care because that's what it boils down to

[Cephrir]

In the interest of having a specific alternative, I propose we murder Yukz and PM. All those in favor?

Having a real counter wagon seems productive for the game state. It's hard to analyze when the alternatives are x and "not x."

[Cephrir]

There are probably 3 slots I'd feel comfortable enough subbing into that, but I can't be swishy washy in the suggestion or it wont be specific anymore.

[Cephrir]

At this point I feel priced in to wisdom not flipping scum because I probably deserve to be turbolynched if be does. X.x

[Cephrir]

It's not for lurking FWIW I just dont like the few posts you've made

So uhhhh make some better ones if u can

[Cephrir]

I didnt but I'd be lying if I said that didnt look like a town replace out

[Cephrir]

no that's totally reasonable

it's not a forever lock it in but id like to see what a replacement would have to say

[Cephrir]

I didnt but I'd be lying if I said that didnt look like a town replace out

in what way

ceph's just scum lol

do you have eyes?

[Cephrir]

you can disagree but i don't think you can act like you have no idea what i'm talking about

[Cephrir]

Nacho
Sakura
RC
Shoshin
GDGW
Oversoul
Dannflor

oh

SS
Yukzyuk
Pmysterious
Cephrir
Goodies

Oh

Leftovers [gameplay/wisdom]

Revised list, we good?

wouldn't you want the trustworthy person to be the last person to be able to pass the baton?

i don't think it matters, if someone wants to claim scum to save their scumbuddy on day 1 then uh, thanks for the freebie.

[Cephrir]

look at me! hi! i'll try screaming it since it's not getting through

I DO NOT REALLY WANT TO LYNCH WISDOM VERY MUCH

am i pushing it yet

[Cephrir]

HELLO PLEASE HOLD ME RESPONSIBLE FOR MY ALTERNATE WAGON

[Cephrir]

it doesn't

[Cephrir]

See, I told you planning it out wouldn't work.

[Cephrir]

I'm positive with what I know of Cephrir that Cephrir before the game started realized that the game was essentially autowin for scum if town didn't organize the baton and that's why he was hard rejecting organization and pushing for others to.
Cephrir has enough mechanical knowhow to know that the game is essentially an autoloss for town if we're just dicking around with the baton but he chose to argue it anyway.

wait for real?

i'm trash at mechanical play.

[Cephrir]

I'm positive with what I know of Cephrir that Cephrir before the game started realized that the game was essentially autowin for scum if town didn't organize the baton and that's why he was hard rejecting organization and pushing for others to.
Cephrir has enough mechanical knowhow to know that the game is essentially an autoloss for town if we're just dicking around with the baton but he chose to argue it anyway.

wait for real?

i'm trash at mechanical play.

this is literally my greatest weakness as a mafia player.

i have a pretty good citation here so: i literally blatantly scumslipped and was immediately lynched for it in a game that just finished because i forgot about the mechanics.

[Cephrir]

Welp i wash my hands off this game then

i think a better response would be to agree not to deviate from our plan and then push a plan you like better instead

you don't get to overturn a lynch in normal mafia games, why is this different other than feeling like it?

[Cephrir]

i hold two lives in my hands

such power

[Cephrir]

@YY i agreed not to deviate. surely i will be lynched if i do.

pls get off your power trip.

[Cephrir]

Welp i wash my hands off this game then

i think a better response would be to agree not to deviate from our plan and then push a plan you like better instead

you don't get to overturn a lynch in normal mafia games, why is this different other than feeling like it?

Because it's RC, once he gets an idea on his head it's impossible to remove it.
Until he notices how wrong he is after he lynches town.

I know that.

Good thing there are 14 other players who at least

should

have agency.

[Cephrir]

Welp i wash my hands off this game then

i think a better response would be to agree not to deviate from our plan and then push a plan you like better instead

you don't get to overturn a lynch in normal mafia games, why is this different other than feeling like it?

Because it's RC, once he gets an idea on his head it's impossible to remove it.
Until he notices how wrong he is after he lynches town.

I know that.

Good thing there are 14 other players who at least

should

have agency.

should

, but who even likes to oppose RC?

I do! I won't sheep even when I should. It's more fun to think for yourself.

[Cephrir]

cc-scum world seems a lot more likely to me than nacho-scum world but whatever no one cares and that's fine

[Cephrir]

that is neither a confident read nor 4 posts

[Cephrir]

it's a good policy

[Cephrir]

Who is currently scum reading Cici?

just cephrir

that is not accurate

[Cephrir]

Who is currently scum reading Cici?

just cephrir

that is not accurate

who else is?

nobody is

[Cephrir]

Posts like 2350 and 2356 are like sooooo <_____>

i literally have no idea what is possibly objectionable about them.

if you're town you are confbiasing on me

[Cephrir]

If we are suggesting alternatives to a Wisdom lynch lets just murder Ceph.

we get it

we know you want that

say something more interesting

[Cephrir]

I want to policy kill Sakura. Is that interesting?

yes, but you should wait until she actually does something worth policy lynching instead of just talking about it, and she's also probably my strongest townread at the moment so no

[Cephrir]

Jeezus, moderation on this site is terrible. It's making me not want to play this game out.

they're right
don't invoke outside influences on the game

[Cephrir]

ok

[Cephrir]

hi kagami, i wish you were going to be around longer but nearly everyone but me is dead set on lynching your slot

@thread hey what if we killed Goodies

[Cephrir]

also @kagami if you start at nacho's read wall and continued from there that would probably be reasonable for a catchup

[Cephrir]

but if you don't want to read a game in which you're definitely doing to be lynched no matter what, fair enough

[Cephrir]

{Gay Dance, Sakura Hana, Nacho}
{CC, Shoshin, SS}
{Dannflor, Wisdom [i know no one will like this compared to my posts and i don't care]}
{Goodies, PMysterious, Oversoul, Oh, Kagami}
{Yukyuk}

[Cephrir]

do i have to baton to oversoul?

just follow the list it literally doesn't matter

[Cephrir]

I’m interested in why people are specifically voting Nacho over Cici?

-i think he's more town
-i think that, if town, he is a stronger asset to town

[Cephrir]

i believe 2441 is coming from a place of preexisting relationships

[Cephrir]

VOTE: Nacho

seems wildly inconsistent with your expressed stances

[Cephrir]

That said it's almost too scummy to be scum and I think that there's a decent possibility that there was some ~deeper meaning~ to it.

surprisingly i agree with this

[Cephrir]

it's not impossible i will vote cc when i'm ready to end the day

i've thought of that several times now and i feel like i should say it now so i don't get this exact reaction if it happens

[Cephrir]

Dont ask why the ships are catgirls
Dont ask why the ships are catgirls
Dont ask why the ships are catgirls

[Cephrir]

What benchmark are you waiting for in particular?

None. I just think there's still useful discussion going on.

You dont think that the discussion weve had in the million pages plus a few flips isnt enough? You need more?

apparently it isn't since you still don't seem to think any of it is worth talking about

do you have any reads?

[Cephrir]

What benchmark are you waiting for in particular?

None. I just think there's still useful discussion going on.

You dont think that the discussion weve had in the million pages plus a few flips isnt enough? You need more?

apparently it isn't since you still don't seem to think any of it is worth talking about

do you have any reads?

Like at all ever? Yes.

Ur hilarious.

[Cephrir]

those pages were very boring
bye

[Cephrir]

@sakura can you just chill a mild amount instead
maybe give up on today and tune back in after baton

[Cephrir]

Ah, fuck, oka is probably town.

[Cephrir]

Is oka any good at scum bc I've only? Played with him in the normal dance game where he was such obvious scum that I defended him for being too scummy

[Cephrir]

I still feel like I should upgrade YY to null due to re real and town posting the past 5 pages

[Cephrir]

Is oka any good at scum bc I've only? Played with him in the normal dance game where he was such obvious scum that I defended him for being too scummy

I feel like im chopped liver to you.

I'm basically still waiting for you to do something that catches my eye

[Cephrir]

i'm just ready for this day phase to end.

I still think everyone on the Nacho wagon should take a long hard look in the mirror and ask themselves what the fuck they are doing when the Man himself is backing another candidate for the baton.

If you think that Nacho is town enough to give the baton to then you should listen to him when he is basically giving his proxy to CC here.

We keep talking about people going against the plan and how they are the problem, well Nacho is telling his entire wagon that they are the problem here.

So lets see which ones peel off to honor their top town reads top read and which ones stay on til the bitter end.

don't agree with pretty much any of this and i think forcing people to be held accountable for their baton votes is important.

^

[Cephrir]

Is oka any good at scum bc I've only? Played with him in the normal dance game where he was such obvious scum that I defended him for being too scummy

I feel like im chopped liver to you.

I'm basically still waiting for you to do something that catches my eye

Then look harder.

Like ive taken a few shots straight across your bow trying to get your attention and you are off in your own world.

More than just 2923?
I was going to disagree with 2923 but then I didnt feel like bothering