Baton Pass [Game Over!]

[Sakura Hana]

Hello!
VOTE: GDGW

[Sakura Hana]

aka dont save rc

How come?

[Sakura Hana]

we could rvs still
who you "randomly" choose to save could be telling

VOTE: nacho

I'm curious as to why you chose someone that hasnt posted over someone that has posted for your "random" vote.

[Sakura Hana]

Why does whether someone has posted make a difference?

Because wisdom put quotation marks around

randomly

in his post i assumed they arent really random.

[Sakura Hana]

What would you have expected it to be based on, if not random?

I hate random as an excuse, that's all.

[Sakura Hana]

Suika running into a wall

That's... very specific.

[Sakura Hana]

You should all hammer me because

what can possibly go wrong

?

That's exactly what i want to find out.

[Sakura Hana]

GIFmap probably town.

[Sakura Hana]

That's... actually a good question.

[Sakura Hana]

I'd assume voting a partner or someone they think they can pocket.

[Sakura Hana]

Hey OS did you actually roll town this time?

[Sakura Hana]

Hey OS did you actually roll town this time?

I did thank goddess.

I believe you
VOTE: OS

[Sakura Hana]

People I will never support for first round baton:
RC hydra
Ankamius hydra
Nacho
Wisdom

I understand why this list exists and i agree.

[Sakura Hana]

Nancy can too unless you suspect RC will be writing her posts for her.

Fun fact, in magical girls if i rolled scum i was planning on letting RC write my posts for me.

[Sakura Hana]

@mod: im voting oversoul not oh

fixed, thanks.
-nsg

[Sakura Hana]

if that is the Bitmap head posting

Everything but post 78 and 81 is bitmap so far from what i can tell.

[Sakura Hana]

And 85

[Sakura Hana]

Basically bitmap posts in lowercase and GIF posts with broken english.

[Sakura Hana]

Hi Ceph!

[Sakura Hana]

I'm going to sheep someone on Cephrir, just need to figure out who knows him best.

I'm going to sheep RC on Shoshin.

But doesnt RC need to be town for that.

[Sakura Hana]

SS probscum.

[Sakura Hana]

Man, the lack of MS lag is so nice, i had already forgotten how it was like when it didnt have lag.

[Sakura Hana]

Ikr!
Also i dunno im having trouble forming reads this game.
Hopefully this is fixed within the next 40 pages.

[Sakura Hana]

I dont see what would be wrong with nacho? Id like him not dying n1

He wont die if he's scum!

[Sakura Hana]

VOTE: Gay Dance

i'm town

people think im town

lets all vote gay dance

But the quesiton is... are you

townier

than OS?

[Sakura Hana]

I dont see what would be wrong with nacho? Id like him not dying n1

He wont die if he's scum!

and you think hes scum because?

I never said that.

[Sakura Hana]

Your vote seems to be driven by not wanting nacho to die because he's nacho, and not because of you thinking he's aligned with town or you're scum.

[Sakura Hana]

Why do you agree with nacho not baton passed

Now that's a better question.
Because I think Nacho's a good scum player and he probably wont die over RC if both are town anyway.

[Sakura Hana]

Also i just realized you're asking me about "being baton passed" not "first round baton holder" which is what i was saying, i dont mind Nacho being baton passed i just mind him being NK immune N1 just on the reasoning of "because he's nacho".

[Sakura Hana]

So Wisdom if nacho is 100% getting shot over RC, then if RC gets shot N1 what does that tell you.
If Nacho's BP you cant gleam info from that.

[Sakura Hana]

Basically what RC is suggesting is that instead of passing based on our reads we use baton pass mechanic as a way of having 2 additional lynches.

[Sakura Hana]

Basically what RC is suggesting is that instead of passing based on our reads we use baton pass mechanic as a way of having 2 additional lynches.

but we'll do that anyway by batonpassing to townreads

Singular opinion vs Town compromise.

[Sakura Hana]

So Wisdom if nacho is 100% getting shot over RC, then if RC gets shot N1 what does that tell you.
If Nacho's BP you cant gleam info from that.

This idea that only nacho and RC are eligible for night 1 kills is deeply silly.

Well yes, but i rather just BP my strongest townread than BP someone because they carry a certain name.

[Sakura Hana]

why s_s? looks like hes an option for many and idk why

I second this question.

[Sakura Hana]

why s_s? looks like hes an option for many and idk why

I second this question.

Why are you voting Oversoul?

Coz he said he's town, and I believe him.

[Sakura Hana]

Oh, I just had an idea. If we aren't leashing baton passes, each person should write a summary of their thoughts when deciding who to pass to, save it somewhere (PM it to the mod if you have to), and post it immediately once the thread is opened again. That should ensure that everyone has accountability without the chaos of a dozen people each simultaneously asking someone else to explain their choice.

But what if my summary of my thoughts is "gut"

[Sakura Hana]

Isn't oversoul a decent ~at least not incompetent~ scum player in the sense that he can get townread?

From my limited experience with him, this is probably correct, but i still believe him.

[Sakura Hana]

IIRC oversoul was almost universally townread prior to him replacing out in Starry Night

Wasnt that the opposite?

[Sakura Hana]

Nancy's town
VOTE: CC

[Sakura Hana]

@Nacho: Those players i consider to be very good at playing scum, and i would want scum to help me sort them instead, but i changed my mind.

[Sakura Hana]

I did not even think our reads were that good at the end of D1 in magical girls upick, plus RC saying like 10 million times we were going to be the N1 NK, and yet, we did get shot, except due to our super unkillable ability... we didnt die.

[Sakura Hana]

because I'm the true endboss of mafiascum.net

Well arent' you?

[Sakura Hana]

Seriously speaking tho, Nancy's posts indicate the hydra is town.

[Sakura Hana]

Anyone legimately townread Wisdom?

Nope

[Sakura Hana]

TIL that Nancy saying im obvtown and i should be passed the baton is toxic or anti-town.

[Sakura Hana]

Townreads on Sakura Hana are toxic because the game is far more enjoyable for everyone if Sakura Hana is being scumread for stupid reasons and she's raging because of it. obviously.

Yeah obviously.
Wait what?

P-Edit: I agree with Shoshin's proposal.

[Sakura Hana]

I have NO intention of butting heads w/ RC. He's relatively reasonable and I intend to be civil w/ him like I am in every other game.

If you read MG, you’d understand.

Can we please not make me remember that.

[Sakura Hana]

I believe helping a town RC stay alive increases town's chances of winning.

[Sakura Hana]

I feel like I should out at this point

that I am

EXPLICITLY not townreading Shoshin

Interesting

[Sakura Hana]

I would think that my postcount would be more relevant than either.

But no matter which metric you use, this is not out of the ordinary.

Do you have any reads?

[Sakura Hana]

Scumcho is a slow and insidious killer.

I wonder if im still able to catch him, i was able to way back then.

[Sakura Hana]

Hana not having reads is normal

HEY!
Funnily enough i know very very few people that know me and call me "Hana".

[Sakura Hana]

Also i dont think me not having / having reads is normal or abnormal, it depends a lot on the playerlist the game pace and on how obvtown ppl can spew themselves.
If you think this is normal behavior from me it means you've only seen me in games i've struggled to form reads.

[Sakura Hana]

Ah RC turned into the RC I like.

[Sakura Hana]

RC is at B-2 btw, we should make sure we agree on the baton kill before they get 2 more votes.
Im all in for this Ceph/Shoshin baton kill.

[Sakura Hana]

didn't you know? "uwu" from GIF means "

[Sakura Hana]

means "YES I AGREE, KILL THEM WITH FIRE".

[Sakura Hana]

do i need to teach people how to read uwunese now.

[Sakura Hana]

I am pretty shocked this is meeting with agreement

Are you shocked im sheeping an RC i townread?
You shouldnt be.

[Sakura Hana]

I only learned simplified uwunese.
Traditional uwunese is outside my range.

[Sakura Hana]

I am pretty shocked this is meeting with agreement

Are you shocked im sheeping an RC i townread?
You shouldnt be.

I do expect half an iota of critical thought from you, yes. I've enjoyed working with you in the past.

Maybe, if i feel like it. But i think that sheeping RC early game leads me to a town victory more often than not because my early game reads usually arent that good.

[Sakura Hana]

So Ceph, are you gonna do something that isnt "You're wrong" or "I do this as town" or are you gonna keep complaining.

[Sakura Hana]

So Ceph, are you gonna do something that isnt "You're wrong" or "I do this as town" or are you gonna keep complaining.

Are you piling on the be mean to ceph train because you want me to give up?

I think the intent of that post is obvious.

[Sakura Hana]

If me getting you to do shit to show me if RC is actually wrong is me being to you, then i rather be mean, than wrong.
I liked you more when you were shuichi.

[Sakura Hana]

If me getting you to do shit to show me if RC is actually wrong is me being to you, then i rather be mean, than wrong.
I liked you more when you were shuichi.

Thanks. If you could aim the next kick at my head, that would be super.

=/

[Sakura Hana]

I dont think me asking you to be like when you played PMyLo is too much of a tall order is it.

[Sakura Hana]

If I was in bed and people start trying to make me effort i'd go "what the fuck get off my lawn" too.

I guess.
Maybe i was being too harsh.

I'll give him time.

[Sakura Hana]

I think wisdom is town???

I dont agree, but i may be taken in by Shoshin which is altering my perception if RC's correct about Shoshin being scum and their skill at it.

[Sakura Hana]

I believe you RC!

[Sakura Hana]

like in terms of more compromise-y lynches i think that goodies is scummy but aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa to this game

It’s funny but I think if you knew my bro in his meta you’d be townreading him out the wazoo. But anyway; we’re not going to mainslip, not even for personal gain. Nice of us, innit?

Oh, i know who you are now.

[Sakura Hana]

like in terms of more compromise-y lynches i think that goodies is scummy but aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa to this game

It’s funny but I think if you knew my bro in his meta you’d be townreading him out the wazoo. But anyway; we’re not going to mainslip, not even for personal gain. Nice of us, innit?

Oh, i know who you are now.

If you’re right on who I am, meta me, then. I’m the easiest person to read there ever was.

If im right on one of you i know 2 of you already.

[Sakura Hana]

Also I think the townreads on RC due to Nancy this early off of the minimal relevant posting Nancy has done (and knowing that she has won games as scum before) are a bit... hasty.

I hate posts like this.

[Sakura Hana]

Re: RC's accuracy that I've been reading while catching up. Since i saw this:

Please just treat him like another player and let's move on with the game.

Usually when I see any player deadset on a scumread, I will hear it out and then if it turns out to be wrong I'll lynch them with no regrets.

What I'm afraid of is if people won't consider lynching RC if Shoshin flips town.

Back in Magical Girls RC admitted his reads werent particulary good when hydraing for... some reason, he led a Lynch on LE D1 and she flipped town, he also says that after a mislynch his reads are better D2 regardless, we did lynch scum 2 days in a row after that mislynch (plus a correct vig) and ended up losing the game to a janitored kasuki who was fakeclaiming masons with LLD.

So... if RC were to... for some reason be wrong here, why does that mean we should lynch him? Specially when my TR on the slot is pretty much Nancy (even tho i think i'd be able to try and read RC correctly but im taking the easy route today)

[Sakura Hana]

What's wrong with it?

It feels like because Nancy managed to fool people for most of HW, people like me, should take longer to TR the slot, that's just paranoia, nothing more, and I decided that I'd stop falling to paranoia every single time a strong scum player is in the playerlist, It's not fun when people decide to not TR you out of paranoia, i've experienced it before, and I hate it.

[Sakura Hana]

RC can't read me. He was wrong about me both times I was scum (check the games if you don't believe me), and he has consistently called me scum in every game I've been town.

If anyone other than RC has concerns about me, please let me know. I'm not going to spend my time addressing anything he said.

Why didnt you bring this up before when people were saying that they'd rely on RC to read you?
- Speaking of that, Wisdom going now out of his way to prove this wrong is kinda weird.

P-Edit: Nah, not really.

[Sakura Hana]

Like Shoshin’s unvote isn’t bad in a vacuum it’s the fact that she votes herself after earlier stating she’s not worth it to BP. The logic she uses to justify the vote is contradictory in my opinion.

I never said I'm not worth a bulletproof. I've been pretty clear about saying that I'm a preferable choice to RC from the beginning.

Then what's this?:

RC has a reputation for being killed on N1.

I don't.

Do you... scumread RC? Coz otherwise this makes 0 sense.

[Sakura Hana]

Speaking of that, Wisdom going now out of his way to prove this wrong is kinda weird.

um
gif kept asking for it

Oh yeah, i forgot he asked specifically for at least a single instance of T-T where he scumread her.
However, you keep pushing it as a "he read her wrong once so he's wrong here too." after that (i think?)

[Sakura Hana]

Nacho doesn't deserve the bp. Sorry but not sorry since he isn't doing anything deserving of it.

^ This pretty much.

[Sakura Hana]

RC can't read me. He was wrong about me both times I was scum (check the games if you don't believe me), and he has consistently called me scum in every game I've been town.

If anyone other than RC has concerns about me, please let me know. I'm not going to spend my time addressing anything he said.

Why didnt you bring this up before when people were saying that they'd rely on RC to read you?

I thought that was a joke. The specific person who said they'd rely on RC to read me is someone who has been in two games with me & RC. RC tried to lead a lynch on me both times. I was town both times. Can you see why I'd interpret their post as a joke?

But did RC townread you in the end in those games?

[Sakura Hana]

That's me saying something that's true & irrelevant to the question of who should get the bulletproof.

Why is it that your explanation for everything that doesnt make sense is "joke" or "i said something untrue and irrelevant"

[Sakura Hana]

You scumread me, Oversoul? You should know better. There's no way I pick up my role PM in this game if I'm scum. RC should know better too.

why would u say this?

like why?

I don't know what you're asking. Oversoul just played with scum me, and town me, and there's no way he realistically thinks this is scum me.

You're implying that the fact that you're playing the game means you're town.

[Sakura Hana]

that response doesnt even match the question based on the quote, like what.

[Sakura Hana]

You scumread me, Oversoul? You should know better. There's no way I pick up my role PM in this game if I'm scum. RC should know better too.

why would u say this?

like why?

I don't know what you're asking. Oversoul just played with scum me, and town me, and there's no way he realistically thinks this is scum me.

>There's no way I pick up my role PM in this game if I'm scum.

That's kind of a trust tell isn't it?

Yes, but RC said she's done that before as scum.

[Sakura Hana]

I didn't say anything was "untrue." That's your word.

Oh yeah i misread, my bad.

[Sakura Hana]

My question, what's the purpose of even asking this question? "Why is your explanation X" doesn't seem like a very useful question to ask.

It was a rethorical question... assuming i hadnt actually misread your post.

[Sakura Hana]

Yes, correct. The fact that I'm playing this game is a town-tell. It might not appear that way to you, because you don't know me, but that doesn't change the reality of the fact that it's very unlikely I would have confirmed my role if I was scum. I've said this before in other games where I was town, for context, so this isn't something I'm making up. This is my last game for the next two years, and I definitely wouldn't be spending it playing scum. That's just a fact, yes it might seem unethical, but I wasn't even sure I wanted to play more mafia because I was scared of getting a mafia PM. I only signed up for this game because NSG invited me and it seemed like a fun setup to play.

Do you realize that trust tells are bannable offenses and prone to modkill?

[Sakura Hana]

Why are you townreading RC, Sakura?

I already said i townread the nancy head of the hydra.
As for the why, well, this feels like her town game? it's something hard to explain.

[Sakura Hana]

Do you realize that trust tells are bannable offenses and prone to modkill?

It's not a trust tell if it's restricted to a single game. It's just a dubious self-meta claim.

I tend not to believe people who say that they would break site rules.

I dont think it is anyway because RC mentioned she doing this "trust tell" as scum before.

[Sakura Hana]

I've never used a trust tell, and like I said, this is my last game on the site for over two years. Just for context, I'm leaving in two months -- I'll be serving in the Peace Corps in a small village in Africa and I don't expect to have internet. This IS my last game on here, and if I get banned, then so be it, but I can assure you I wasn't going to play scum for my last game. I'd rather be banned than waste my time doing something I hate.

Hmm i see.

[Sakura Hana]

Yeah sorry RC, I changed my mind i dont think Shoshin is scum here.

[Sakura Hana]

Do you realize that trust tells are bannable offenses and prone to modkill?

It's not a trust tell if it's restricted to a single game. It's just a dubious self-meta claim.

I tend not to believe people who say that they would break site rules.

I dont think it is anyway because RC mentioned she doing this "trust tell" as scum before.

I never did this as scum? I did it as town to argue I was town, because I was in fact town.

Hmm?:

Very difficult for me to take that as anything besides a hard scumclaim. I've seen Shoshin push the logic that she's confirmed town for picking up the role PM before as town but in that game she used it based on the fact that the game took several weeks to start and she would have just been done the game if she was scum, not based on the logic that literally her being present in a game was confirmation that she was town.

Anyway, we can kill Wisdom Gameplay or something along those lines for first baton pass instead and almost certainly get at least one scum with a lot less mental effort from me and I'd be good with that.

Maybe i misinterpreted this.

[Sakura Hana]

If she did roll scum in her last game, I bet she'd be a lot less concerned with playing ethically.

I guess that's possible too.
Regardless of her alignment it's gonna leave a bad taste in my mouth.
If she's scum and i dont push her i feel like im just letting her skate by on principle and to not be mean to someone that hates playing scum and are on their last game.
If she's town and i push her I feel like im being mean to someone.
In this state i cant really trust my read there at all tbh, but i just cant feel like this is scum.

[Sakura Hana]

Yeah sorry RC, I changed my mind i dont think Shoshin is scum here.

*cough* Alisae in Speakeasy *cough*

Like I get where you're coming from but I feel like I need to wake you up with a bit of reality as well.

Oh yeah... THAT thing.
Honestly i wanted to erase from my memory the fact that scum would conf town me with a

wrong

trust tell to buddy up to me.

[Sakura Hana]

That was kinda different tho, Ali in speakeasy was more of a "Why would scum do something that actively harms their win condition", it was a dirty buddying tactic, but it was still some sort of buddying.

[Sakura Hana]

Yeah sorry RC, I changed my mind i dont think Shoshin is scum here.

you had me worried you'd become a mindless rc sheep for a minute

I'm an RC sheep, but im not mindless, i do have high praise for his scumhunting even if his tactics most of the time involve strongarming lynches.

[Sakura Hana]

However i wont hesitate to voice my opinion when i disagree with RC.

[Sakura Hana]

Conversely, if his strong scumreads flip town, it makes him likely scum.

This is untrue, in MG his strong scumread, LE, flipped town, we were town that game.

[Sakura Hana]

Sakura, how confident are you in your Nancy read?

76%

[Sakura Hana]

Cici you get three kills before night, pragmatically you should not be super upset if you don’t get baton.

This is actually a good point.

[Sakura Hana]

Sakura what if I promised you that I was town and not scum?

didn't you already promise me to roll town before the game finished signups.

[Sakura Hana]

Granted i know nothing about Shoshin and i know RC and Nacho are both good scumhunters so i'd baton either of them over Shoshin even if my TR on shoshin would be as strong as OS's.

[Sakura Hana]

Shoshin scum definitely does not post the ultimatum that she did. Plus she is very much playing to her town meta of not lurking. NSG is a player with the same type of meta. Transparently scum by activity alone.

So, how many people do we have with activity tells now? Creature, AH, Shoshin, NSG?
(This isnt me believing what you said btw)

[Sakura Hana]

Also i'd like to point out, that idr if gameplay became an universal townread within 10 posts in MG, at least he wasnt a super high townread for me, that only happened when he shot scum with his vig.
Right now i'd like to kill Wisdom/Gameplay with the baton tho.

[Sakura Hana]

Dannflor is someone I could easily see as scum blending in and being generally unobjectionable not making any waves, mayhaps.

Funny enough, I keep forgetting Dannflor is in this game.
That's how much of an impact he's made.

[Sakura Hana]

Because you seemed to miss these earlier

I dont understand what context you're referring to tho

[Sakura Hana]

So if we assume
1. RC is town (Nancy makes reading the slot easier I heard) = p
2. If RC is town and RC says shoshin is scum, then Shoshin is scum. (Apparently he was never wrong on Shoshin before!) = p*q -> r
3. RC says Shoshin is scum (Believe me this is a true statement) = q

Then we can prove that Shoshin is scum (r)!

1. p Given
2. p*q -> r Given
3. q Given
4. p * q Conjunction
5. r 2, 4, Modus Ponens

Simple logic really

Oh that?, I dont get what's the issue either, I TR CC, and... that's it? I dont think I said shoshin had to be scum because of it, im not gonna be held by paranoia on RC or Nancy, if you want to be held up by paranoia that's on you.

[Sakura Hana]

Oh that?, I dont get what's the issue either, I TR CC, and... that's it? I dont think I said shoshin had to be scum because of it, im not gonna be held by paranoia on RC or Nancy, if you want to be held up by paranoia that's on you.

I don't know how to explain in more clear terms than I already have. I don't understand how you still manage to misinterpret my post.

Whatever. I give up.

Maybe you're misunderstanding mine? idk.

[Sakura Hana]

Oh that?, I dont get what's the issue either, I TR CC, and... that's it? I dont think I said shoshin had to be scum because of it, im not gonna be held by paranoia on RC or Nancy, if you want to be held up by paranoia that's on you.

I don't know how to explain in more clear terms than I already have. I don't understand how you still manage to misinterpret my post.

Whatever. I give up.

Maybe you're misunderstanding mine? idk.

Alright. I think you think that I'm not townreading CC and that you think I'm saying other players should be hesitant to townread them, is that correct?

That's correct yes.

[Sakura Hana]

Wisdom - we're saving

You dont decide that

[Sakura Hana]

Hmmm
Im fine with Dannflor dying.
Im also fine with Yuki dying.
Im also fine with PM dying.

After all this i realize that my reads and Wisdom's arent very different.

[Sakura Hana]

I dont think i've ever been wrong on Wisdom save Phantom Hourglass for the past few years or so, and im not gonna be wrong now just coz RC scumreads him.
So im gonna put Wisdom back to null and read him myself instead.

[Sakura Hana]

I dont want to kill Ceph, not yet anyway.
I think he can become pretty obvtown if he tries hard.
Specially when we start actually voting for lynch.

[Sakura Hana]

I dont want to kill Ceph, not yet anyway.
I think he can become pretty obvtown if he tries hard.
Specially when we start actually voting for lynch.

This is a reach out to you Ceph and an offer to reevaluate my read there if you can convince me you're not scum with your scumhunting.

[Sakura Hana]

Yuki/Gameplay baton muder seems like the optimal way to me.

[Sakura Hana]

Second should be Yuki

[Sakura Hana]

oh god, RC broke again.

[Sakura Hana]

I think that Yuk is town and I feel reasonably strongly about this.

Why is yuk town then?

I think that 1) they feel genuinely solvey and 2) the posts that they've been scumread for are ones they would expect to be scumread for and not make as scum.

Then when who do you want that isnt wisdom or ceph

[Sakura Hana]

Even if I scumread Sakura Hana, I wouldn't scumread Sakura Hana.

What does this even mean.

[Sakura Hana]

Wisdom/Ceph are really important for dealing with the Shoshin situation ASAP.

Shoshin's town tho.

[Sakura Hana]

Sakura Hana, why are you so eager to put me in the first lynchings when you

just

just quick lynched me as town. Especially with your town read of Shoshin town reading me.

I haven't seen anything from you that looks like pushing a scumread.

Also there's a lack of kitties

[Sakura Hana]

What does shoshin TRing you have anything to do with my read on you just coz i TR Shoshin?

[Sakura Hana]

What are your scum reads right now?

Aside from gameplay:

Hmmm
Im fine with Dannflor dying.
Im also fine with Yuki dying.
Im also fine with PM dying.

After all this i realize that my reads and Wisdom's arent very different.

[Sakura Hana]

I really really think we should stick with Gameplay/Wisdom.

If you keep saying this ill pass the baton to wisdom.

[Sakura Hana]

Why PM, Sakura?

I Havent been very impressed with the content of what little PM has posted this game.
Even the 3-Headed hydra is better in that regard.

[Sakura Hana]

I really really think we should stick with Gameplay/Wisdom.

If you keep saying this ill pass the baton to wisdom.

How is wisdom different from HH?

Very, i can read Wisdom.

[Sakura Hana]

What about Ceph then?

Can probably read him if he actually starts efforting.

[Sakura Hana]

What about Ceph then?

Can probably read him if he actually starts efforting.

Can you help me see why Wisdom is town?

You know that's a tall order to ask of me when im bad at explaining things, but I want to at least give him a normal day phase to read him.

[Sakura Hana]

you know I trust your reads right sakura

I just need help here.

Outside of Phantom Hourglass I've had a good track record of reading Wisdom, and I don't think I've seen some of the stuff I usually see in scum wisdom yet (Heck im usually better at sorting him D2 than D1 anyway).

[Sakura Hana]

I think even in Phantom Hourglass I suspected Wisdom at SOME POINT, but with Kokichi yelling they had a guilty on Wisdom and then Wisdom was a gunsmith I convinced myself that their reaction to that was town and I stopped suspecting him.

[Sakura Hana]

Ok but you're also saying that you're somewhat likely to errantly townread him but less likely to errantly scumread him?

Outside of Phantom Hourglass.
I've never townread scum wisdom in the past few years, and i've never scumread town wisdom. But i've nullread scum wisdom and always townread town wisdom.
I can tell you im not townreading him yet, but i dont have him as a serious scumread right now.

[Sakura Hana]

I've seen Enter get way more worked out about less egregious things both as town and out of game.

+1

also, Sakura, what about Goodies/Gameplay?

That way they can be the G/G

If im correct on the hydra heads one of them i'd be pretty happy to see dead regardless of alignment, and i dont trust the "one of the heads is super readable" considering i always scumread one, and the other fooled me for 3 day phases.
NFI on the 3rd.

[Sakura Hana]

There's no argument to be made here. You effectively cheated. I don't need to prove you wrong or try and get my point through so that other people won't do the same thing in the future, because cheating is enforceable by site moderators and objectively bad.

This is only true if you believe that she wouldn't bring this logic up as scum. I'm not so sure that's true, so I don't see it as cheating. /shrug

Fair enough, I wouldn't put it past her to bring up as scum, I guess. :/ I'm not really reading the slot anymore, which is why she wasn't in my reads list.

When you get into that territory, it's hard to read the slot without feeling bad about something.

[Sakura Hana]

Hana i started out not liking but then remembered that if i dont like hana to start then she has a <rand chance of being town

Uh what

[Sakura Hana]

I think Hana will be reasonably solvable in the long run and trying to sort her early feels like a massive headache inducer.

I thought you said in another game that i was one of the easiest players to read on site.

[Sakura Hana]

I guess I overestimated you then.

[Sakura Hana]

VOTE: Nacho

[Sakura Hana]

I really like Nacho's analysis that Wisdom has actually not gone after any of the deep wolves and just picked his pool from the lurkers/easy lynches.

Yeah this is something i didnt pick up on and it interests me.

[Sakura Hana]

I guess i could relate it to wisdom being unable to use his vote to lynch, but... idk

[Sakura Hana]

But the main reason is Nacho actually gave a read on me and CC just said "She's town until 3 scum are dead" after saying in ANOTHER GAME that i was "the poster child for easy to read".

[Sakura Hana]

But the main reason is Nacho actually gave a read on me and CC just said "She's town until 3 scum are dead" after saying in ANOTHER GAME that i was "the poster child for easy to read".

If I had tried to read you earlier in the game and you had been scum I would have just given up on the game.

You talk as if you cant tell when im town and when im scum.
Which is fine, i guess everyone does it.
I'd rather see more genuine reads on me like the one coming from Nacho.
Specially coming from someone that said im easy to read.

[Sakura Hana]

also I finally critically read SH's iso since I could rely on Nacho to make me not want to stab my eyes out with forks and she's town!!! yay ice cream for everyone

You talk as if you cant tell when im town and when im scum.
Which is fine, i guess everyone does it.
I'd rather see more genuine reads on me like the one coming from Nacho.
Specially coming from someone that said im easy to read.

Like I said, it's not about my ability to read you it's about the fact that I needed the emotional support that you being town gives more than I needed to actually know if you were town or not.
Like, it would have been a major struggle for me to continue being invested in the game if I ended up scumreading you at one of the points where you were one of the only people backing me up.

That becomes a lot less of a problem now because I feel reasonably comfortable in my position and finding out that someone supporting me is scum isn't going to kill my drive.
I'm not sure how obvious it has been this game that I've been teetering on the brink of giving up on it, but I have been.

In other words, you were using me.

[Sakura Hana]

Also:

also I finally critically read SH's iso since I could rely on Nacho to make me not want to stab my eyes out with forks and she's town!!! yay ice cream for everyone

That's all i can really say about that.

[Sakura Hana]

[Sakura Hana]

Sakura, are you okay with the plan?

I dont opposte it, but i rather you dead over wisdom.

[Sakura Hana]

But im currently in my idgaf phase.

[Sakura Hana]

Stop complaining already.

[Sakura Hana]

I think im just going to do the same thing i did near the end of MG where i didnt care if we won and only cared how good my reads were.

[Sakura Hana]

Sakura are you explicitly hammering wisdom or were you just saying you didnt care because that's what it boils down to

The later

[Sakura Hana]

Yuki you probably have higher chances of winning by voting for RC who's defending you, why are you vanity voting.

[Sakura Hana]

But the main reason is Nacho actually gave a read on me and CC just said "She's town until 3 scum are dead" after saying in ANOTHER GAME that i was "the poster child for easy to read".

@OS

[Sakura Hana]

Ceph probs town.

[Sakura Hana]

In the interest of having a specific alternative, I propose we murder Yukz and PM. All those in favor?

Having a real counter wagon seems productive for the game state. It's hard to analyze when the alternatives are x and "not x."

Do you TR gameplay?

[Sakura Hana]

I didnt but I'd be lying if I said that didnt look like a town replace out

Yeah I had the same feeling.

[Sakura Hana]

+1 to killing Yuki/PM btw

[Sakura Hana]

[quote="In post 2096, YukzYuk"][/quote]
Why?

[Sakura Hana]

wow that tag broke awkwardly.

[Sakura Hana]

I did the same thing before when i said that i'd give the baton to wisdom if he was in the baton kill pool tho.

[Sakura Hana]

I can compromise on Yuki/Gameplay or Yuki/Wisdom

[Sakura Hana]

like every slot that i have questions about their alignment is opposing these lynches every slot that i townread is defending them

Good to know that you have questions about my alignment then.

[Sakura Hana]

Scum wouldn't defend this regardless if there wasn't at least one townie defending it with them.

This is a bad way of thinking.

[Sakura Hana]

That's the thing, rc

I think scum are largely supporting you

-Edmund Duke, Alpha Squadron

That's a no brainer when the majority of the PL was supporting this lynch until someone voiced a different opinion.

[Sakura Hana]

Did you forget about that game where i was scum vs town you RC. Years ago?
Something similar may be happening here.

[Sakura Hana]

Also funny you bring Ceph up, he opposes it but not... very strongly, the only ppl i've seen strongly opposing it are myself and Oh.

[Sakura Hana]

You mean the Huntress game?

The marquis mini that was bee themed.

[Sakura Hana]

At any rate if you pass me the baton ill give it to Wisdom, do what you want.

[Sakura Hana]

At any rate if you pass me the baton ill give it to Wisdom, do what you want.

then we'll lynch wisdom tomorrow, so.

If you want to give scum what they want then go ahead.

[Sakura Hana]

I can compromise on Yuki/Gameplay or

Yuki/Wisdom

What happened to this post?

oh i meant PM.

[Sakura Hana]

For some reason had Wisdom on my head when i typed that.

[Sakura Hana]

Then you have to deal with Oh.

[Sakura Hana]

There's really no reason for SH to be defending wisdom this much.

And there's no reason for you to be defending Yuki this much.

[Sakura Hana]

RC focused all his stat points in mechanical skills and forgot to put any in charisma.

lol'd

[Sakura Hana]

Apparently RC believes that scum me would defend a partner this hard.

[Sakura Hana]

Apparently RC believes that scum me would defend a partner this hard.

That assume Wisdom is flipping scum

That's what RC believes would happen.
It's much less likely if i were scum here that i would oppose a flip i know would be town.
It's also much less likely i would oppose RC hard if i were scum, as I've already done 0 opposition to him and let him help me win.

[Sakura Hana]

I feel like this could easily be an LE situation because no one has town cased Wisdom yet despite repeated requests for it. And I don't really see good reasons to town read him?

Yeah and I also heavily townread LE despite RC heavily scumreading her.

[Sakura Hana]

We put Sakura and oh to the end and then if one of them decides to be a scumclaimer they kill the other deviator.

Sakura why do you scumreads me?

I feel like you've been trying to push this lynch since like page 17 and your reads have been static since then.

[Sakura Hana]

Why would you obstruct a lynch that will almost certainly happen anyway?

Becuase I believe that when literally almost the entirety of the PL wants Wisdom dead means Wisdom's most likely town.

[Sakura Hana]

I have also had the same core scumreads for approximately the same time, with Shoshin filtering in and out.

You've had several scumread and lynch preference changes throughout the entire game.

[Sakura Hana]

Why aren't you scumreading Ceph?

I felt like him trying to create a counter wagon and a second opinion was townie.

[Sakura Hana]

Becuase I believe that when literally almost the entirety of the PL wants Wisdom dead means Wisdom's most likely town.

But that only matters if you can convince people not to immediately lynch him after the baton phase.

Do you have any other reasoning besides that?

I also believe he'll become more readable once we start voting for lynch.

[Sakura Hana]

HH only had resistance the second day after I hard mislynched town. The first day they were like a freebie lynch.

Scum don't tend to defend each other versus me, this is something you've seen in action many times Sakura please I'm frustrated

I'm not all the way on you being scum but it's so hard for me to townread you when you're playing objectively pro-scum

Well we will see whose reads were better at the end of the game then.

[Sakura Hana]

Why aren't you scumreading Ceph?

I felt like him trying to create a counter wagon and a second opinion was townie.

Isn't this based off of an assumption of the results?

How do you know this is actually true without seeing the results of the flip, etc

No, it creates another option, it's anti-town to try to shove one single option down everyone's throat.

[Sakura Hana]

that's a bad statement to make

because sakura IS doing something

and now we have to determine if it's more likely to be scum her or town her

we literally can't lynch scum if town aren't going to cooperate here because scum can simply pass to each other and scum automatically wins htis game essentially

If you want me to cooperate then discussion needs to happen and not saying "WE'RE ONLY BATON KILLING THESE 2 PEOPLE BECAUSE I SAID SO AND BECAUSE I NEED THEM TO INFLATE MY EGO AND I THIN 1 IS SCUM".

[Sakura Hana]

If you want to scum read me or kill me for trying to stop a lynch i believe has high chance of flipping town then go ahead, if that makes you feel better about yourself. But i dont want to hear from you again that you can read me.

[Sakura Hana]

If you want to scum read me or kill me for trying to stop a lynch i believe has high chance of flipping town then go ahead, if that makes you feel better about yourself. But i dont want to hear from you again that you can read me.

that's not what this game is. if everyone defends their townreads and acts of their own accord town loses, period.

You still get 2 flips and you still get a lynch, idk wtf you're complaining about.

[Sakura Hana]

Sakura, a majority of people agree with CCs plan. Actually deviating from the plan is the ego play.

That is exactly what is scary.

[Sakura Hana]

Sakura, you aren't stopping it. All you will accomplish is delaying it.

Then why are you wasting time arguing with me.

[Sakura Hana]

I'm bored at work. I have plenty of time.

Why are you wasting EVERYONE's time?

I'm not wasting people's time im answering questions, I already stated my opinion and position, take it or leave it.

[Sakura Hana]

If you want to scum read me or kill me for trying to stop a lynch i believe has high chance of flipping town then go ahead, if that makes you feel better about yourself. But i dont want to hear from you again that you can read me.

that's not what this game is. if everyone defends their townreads and acts of their own accord town loses, period.

You still get 2 flips and you still get a lynch, idk wtf you're complaining about.

AND NONE OF THOSE FLIPS WILL HIT SCUM BECAUSE SCUM WONT LET THEM HIT SCUM

HOW IS IT SO FUCKING COMPLICATED THAT IF SCUM GET TO BATON PASS TO EACH OTHER WE DONT FLIP SCUM?

If you have majority for a wisdom/gameplay baton kill, then you have majority for a lynch during lynching phase, why do you care so much.

[Sakura Hana]

You do realize that this plan isn't even birthed solely by CC right? And argument of that is disingenuous.

I do realize that you're the one pulling the strings here and that's why i SR you.

[Sakura Hana]

I'm not wasting people's time im answering questions, I already stated my opinion and position, take it or leave it.

If you pass to Wisdom and everyone lynches him next, you've delayed that flip, and wasted in-game time.

no. if she passes to wisdom she dies regardless of our read on her.

Go ahead, it's more fun to solve from the dead thread than arguing with you anyway.

[Sakura Hana]

I guess there's no way of stopping RC from blindly following scum huh.

[Sakura Hana]

Welp i wash my hands off this game then

[Sakura Hana]

If town loses to Yuki ill blame RC.

[Sakura Hana]

VOTE: CC

[Sakura Hana]

Welp i wash my hands off this game then

i think a better response would be to agree not to deviate from our plan and then push a plan you like better instead

you don't get to overturn a lynch in normal mafia games, why is this different other than feeling like it?

Because it's RC, once he gets an idea on his head it's impossible to remove it.
Until he notices how wrong he is after he lynches town.

[Sakura Hana]

Please unvote we need to put Ceph at the end too I think

So much "at the end"

[Sakura Hana]

Everyone who opposes you should be at the end so scum can have their fun times at the top.
Yeah... fits you right.

[Sakura Hana]

Welp i wash my hands off this game then

i think a better response would be to agree not to deviate from our plan and then push a plan you like better instead

you don't get to overturn a lynch in normal mafia games, why is this different other than feeling like it?

Because it's RC, once he gets an idea on his head it's impossible to remove it.
Until he notices how wrong he is after he lynches town.

I know that.

Good thing there are 14 other players who at least

should

have agency.

should

, but who even likes to oppose RC?

[Sakura Hana]

You do have agency. Use your words and convince people rather than complain

I already used my words, you chose to ignore them, scum.

[Sakura Hana]

I also told RC that i was getting cold feet on unwnd, look at what happened.
I also told RC that LE was bleeding town and he chose to lynch anyway and look at what happened.
Let's see if this happens a THIRD time