Designer Mafia 2007 - Game Over, Final Scene Posted!

[armlx]

I wondering about a massclaim today.

Aren't we pretty much there already?

Who isn't A) confirmed via investigation or B) has no revealed role info?

SSF, mneme, and PBuG is the answer BTW.

[armlx]

Hmm, actually, mass claim may be good to sort out fake abilities, suspect pool is running low. Issue is whether today or later is better.

[armlx]

Blah, sorry for trip posting, but never mind, all roles are probably ability roles who could have been shifted with regards to alignment.

[armlx]

Oh, yeah, my bad on which part, point stands. Who claimed making Jdodge's role?

[armlx]

That was a pretty freaking strong one though. He had no need to do that, as he did not need to reveal the Grim part at all especially given you were dead. Jdodge's situaton was still workable.

[armlx]

Why behind Fonz?

[armlx]

Also, remember that I still can role block everybody, which can buy us an extra day (a lynch before an even lylo gets to be two lynches).

I thought you cold only block town?

[armlx]

I thought you had an investigation?

I'm confused.

[armlx]

I have said that it was not in my original role pm and was given to me the night that I used it.

I'm still confused, but not for the same reason.

[armlx]

If you're wondering why I used it immediately, it was because I was afraid of an expiration date. The pm essentially boiled down to "you have a one-shot investigation".

No, I see nothing wrong with that. I'm confused as to where it came from, but thats just role spec and should be ignored for now.

[armlx]

I think his investigation could have something to do with the shirt...or I will find out tonight.

Or this. Makes sense and makes me think Jedi is 100% town (inventor as scum is not a realistic thing) and TSS can ressurect, whether as town or scum.

[armlx]

TSS can ressurect, whether as town or

scum

cult.

Fixed.

[armlx]

Oh, and fwiw i've seen scum inventors before.

Really? Where? (there would be a series of actions that would explain Jedi's actions as scum, but its really convoluted).

Also, the more I think about it, the less I endorse mass claim due to the ability of the mod to have altered role alignments. I don't know if we are going to reveal much relevant information.

[armlx]

What risk do we run from massclaiming?

A lot, letting mafia direct kills and what not.

[armlx]

I see how we may just want to try and eliminate the threat of him making a cult if there are not many better options.

There are a few.

[armlx]

I'm kinda completely agreeing with TSS now the more I consider the game mechanics of MoS having to switch and balance role alignments.

[armlx]

Oh, forgot PBuG was BBM, who I have come to realized exhibited a huge BBM scum tell this game.

Still will wait for replace + claim, but I definitely endorse a Pbug lynch right now.

[armlx]

since we are taking stock, what have you done that is protown?

CKD, TSS is not an issue to worry about today. PBuG is almost guaranteed scum.

[armlx]

I just realized that Simenon blocked all scum actions yesterday... and Shanba was not raised.

No, that was 2 nights ago, before we lynched shanba for not false killing.

[armlx]

so you know for a fact that he a.) bringing them back? and b.) that those revived players are still town?

Actually, I think we have A confirmed.

[armlx]

I am still not certian..the tee shirt thing is bugging me...now if someone who doesnt have a tee shirt comes back, then I will be sold.

But what explains sim's cop investigation?

[armlx]

What shirt did the Jedi give (and to whom) on the night Simenon fired his block all scum ability?

He gave the shirt to Sim that gave him the cop investigation (presumably).

[armlx]

Definitely can agree with that.

MoS, hows the replacement search going?

[armlx]

Not really. In order for you to get the investigation that night, MoS would have to get in all night actions, then resend to you, then you send back, etc.

[armlx]

Just wondering, Sim, do you know what BBM scum tell I'm talking about?

[armlx]

It was a rhetorical question Sim.

[armlx]

No, I am not aware of the tell.

Pretty sure BBM scum is a chronic lurker.

[armlx]

EBWODP: I have 2 completed games and 1 ongoing with a revealed alignment that show this (though 2 of those were on his alt).

[armlx]

BBM = Buh Buh Bam = Flameaxe.

[armlx]

No, I am not aware of the tell.

Pretty sure BBM scum is a chronic lurker.

Flameaxe is a lurker.

Not to this extent though. As town he makes sure he isn't replaced.

[armlx]

BBM is a lurker regardless his alignment.

Again, I realize, but as scum he just straight up doesn't post. Town he pops in weekly to say something, but as scum he gets replaced so often for long stretches of lurking its not funny. See Texas Justice (he showed up to win), Random 3, and one ongoing that I am in (his alt again, but still).

[armlx]

Also, Jedi, I'd be willing to take a shirt.

Woah, no sir. Do not just ship out shirts to the least confirmed person.

[armlx]

Hello nonny! Claimordieplz.

Meh, she's not quite there yet, but working on it.

Vote Nonny

[armlx]

Thats good enough. More nonny claims.

[armlx]

Yeah, what was the point of a vote there?

[armlx]

People in glass houses... you know how that goes, right?

My vote was before CKD and you expressed your agreement with the claim now plan. Only TSS was endorsing it at that time.

[armlx]

SSF, we do. We hace already reached this conclusion and are asking her to. Your vote was unnecessary and just more likely to push her to a premature lynch.

The intention of my vote was to force a claim out of someone I thought was scum who only had 1 vote at that time. Since my vote, we got 3 more votes worth of people (4 including you), effectively L-3.

[armlx]

While I see the point of putting presure on Nonny right away, I think lynching him before the claim is a very bad idea, regardless of if he has read or not.

If she posts again in thread without claiming ASAP I will strongly consider lynching on the spot. Claim stalling = bad.

[armlx]

While I see the point of putting presure on Nonny right away, I think lynching him before the claim is a very bad idea, regardless of if he has read or not.

If she posts again in thread without claiming ASAP I will strongly consider lynching on the spot. Claim stalling = bad.

I was under the impression we wanted Nonny to claim without a reread. However, after this much time, its probably not happening, so

No, we do. It is happening (presumably).

[armlx]

While I see the point of putting presure on Nonny right away, I think lynching him before the claim is a very bad idea, regardless of if he has read or not.

If she posts again in thread without claiming ASAP I will strongly consider lynching on the spot. Claim stalling = bad.

???

We have her in normal claim range in pledged votes. Stalling on a role claim in a force claim scenario is one of the biggest scum tells.

[armlx]

So that means we shouldn't have her claim at all?

No, she should claim IMMEDIATELY. My point was if she doesn't, I am not beyond lynching her without a claim.

[armlx]

I'm good with a nonny lynch still.

[armlx]

Don't buy it one bit. Mafia role cop probably.

[armlx]

I do know I made it a role cop so alignment would be a coin toss.

Mafia role cop probably.

Called it.

[armlx]

Nonny, no beating around the bush. It doesn't matter if the person is dead, I want to know any PM's or results you have gotten.

I would disagree with this if I remotely thought nonny could be town.

[armlx]

Lol, the old cop with no relevant info claim.

Die plz scum.

[armlx]

Real question is, would you be after me/my role if i hadn't just replaced in? Or are you just looking for the easiest target?

Yes, I would want you lynched regardless.

What was the plan before I replaced in? Are any of those suspects suddenly cleared?

Lynch PBuG. He was next in the line of lynch priorities after I Stark and I semi-confirmed each other.

I told you I had no info armlx, I could of made it up if I wanted. But, instead I told the truth, and that makes me scum?

And risk getting caught in a lie? The cop with no info is such a standard scum ploy its not even funny.

[armlx]

Isn't that a bit WIFOM. You think I don't know that?

Not really.

Why was Pbug a lynched priority? was there a reason or just his lack of posts?

He was on the list of people without any variety of confirmation.

[armlx]

You say I must be scum because I claim the most used scum claim. I know it the most used scum claim so why would i claim it if i were scum. That is WIFOM, that is classic WIFOM.

You are the one guilty of making it a WIFOM here. You can't counter a scum tell by saying its too scummy for scum to do it.

How did you and stark confirm each other?

He claimed backup to specifically me.

So just because you can't confirm my role, I must be scum. There is no other way to test it? That isn't that great of a play. If you did that in a basic game you would lose everytime.

No, I do it very often and win very often. If a role isn't confirmable there is no reason to assume that person can't be scum. Here are the strikes against your role

1) Your role is a very easy role to make scum.

2) You claimed no relevant confirmable info

[armlx]

SSF352 (Replacing UltimaAvalon)
ZONEACE
mneme

What have these 3 players claims/done/been investigated as to be considered pro-town?

[armlx]

I believe he was going off of Armlx's L-3 statement.

This, though I was counting him as a pledged vote.

[armlx]

Now its actual L-2.

[armlx]

Mneme has looked Pro-town to me, although I think SSF and ZONEACE should claim today.

Why today when we have a lynch set up and no vig?

[armlx]

Do you have some problem with them claiming today?

Yes. I do, given that we stand to gain very little off of it and the mafia stand to gain full knowledge for their kill.

Again, I don't see why people are just excluding mneme from their lists.

[armlx]

This is complete BS. You have one claimed (and confirmed) doctor, one claimed resurrector, one double voter, one almost confirmed cop/vig, one role copier, one completely confirmed probable inventor and you are concerned about mafia killing Zoneace and SSF?

I'm concerned about letting them know whether they have to or not and forcing you/Twomz to consider more targets when the only potential gain that we know about now is the difference between Nocmen killing and investigating them.

[armlx]

So when/if you do the deed you will all be greatly disappointed for not giving me a chance.

Hi, I'm an appeal to emotion.

[armlx]

Is anybody else worried by this post?

Mildy, but much less so as Zoneace is pretty much next on my list.

[armlx]

I guess I'm good with a Zoneace/SSF claim if everyone is going to come to the consensus that Nocmen will vig him at night if his claim isn't pro-town enough, but otherwise all claims would do is give the mafia perfect information.

[armlx]

Fonz needs to die next.

Soon, not sure about next.

[armlx]

Doesn't it disturb you that in post 2475 Armlx seemingly assumes ZONEACE is town and then in post 2482 he announces he is the second on his scum list?

I notice the contradiction, however I was to reason with Zoneace, which can be kinda difficult if I started shout "You are scum!" at him.

[armlx]

Is there any logical reason why the people who haven't claimed so far, only 3 of them, shouldn't claim now especially when two of them are being pretty scummy? Consider also the fact that town has a vig.

So we are down with the vig plan?

Unvote

so we can figure things out. Will revote once everything is said and done.

And now the target of choice for armlx appears to be Fonz.

A target, not the target of choice. This feels a lot like a small town gamewhere at some point you have to start lynching people because if they are alive and their role is scum the town just loses.

[armlx]

Why do you want to reason with someone who is second in your list?

Regardless of alignment, at the time I believed it was better for not claiming (I forgot about the prospect of MOAR VIGGING). As such, I was working on a case by case basis to explain why this was the right plan of action.

[armlx]

Zoneace is dying today or tonight, that is clear. I'm just wondering whether he is telling the truth about his target today. I'm leaning yes right now given how he pressed the cult issue.

[armlx]

Twomz, why investigate him when our cop can also kill him on the spot. We know his goal for a lynch is not going to be the same as our own if he is telling the truth.

[armlx]

um My goal for a lynch could very well be the same as the town's. its random.

Could is the operative word.

You definitely are playing the "neutral trying to survive" part well if you are scum though.

[armlx]

I don't see any proof that you didn't do that. Your only proof for that was that you are bad at making up claims. But you made 5 roles. SO evidently you can make up a role, and since one got picked I'm willing to bet they aren't half bad either.

Good, if self-preservatory, point.

[armlx]

I endorse Simenon's product and/or service. SSF claiming falls back under the whole giving mafia kill directing info thing with ZA's claim.

[armlx]

No. I took out jediknight. I was not sure what he really was doing, it seemed that his shirts really didn't add up to anything.

Why did you not kill Zoneace. Jedi was actually confirmed.

[armlx]

cause killing me was not the right play, and it still isn't. But im glad you seem to think i need to die in every game we're in.

Dude, you are confirmed not town. There was no reason to not kill you as at worst you are neutral, best possible scum, and negative reason to kill Jedi over you or SSF or.....

[armlx]

TBH, I think it is entirely possible for Nocmen to be a part of a cult after this.

Possible. Also, Sir. T, your post was 100% justified.

killing me would have been the wrong move.

No, it wouldn't have been. Again, confirmed not town, not confirmed not mafia, just a win/win.

neither my vote or CKD's showed up on SFF, anyone have thoughts?

Possible mod error?

[armlx]

BTW, are there any examples of cults where recruits get to keep their powers?

Not that I know of. mneme is wrong here, recruits usually if not always lose their abilities.

I'm surprised at the CKD kill, although it would suck to be stuck in endgame with 2 players controlled by the same person.

I'm not too surprised given the fact he was very unlikely to be doc'ed and this

As for the scum killing CKD, my guess would be they wanted to see if they could 2-for-1 Belgarion as well.

Anyways, rather lynch Zoneace, vig SSF just based on the fact if he is telling the truth about being a lyncher I don't want him still alive.

[armlx]

Why lynch a povable role?

Because its provable non-town.

Just thought of a reason to lynch SSF over Zoneace: NK immune scum.

[armlx]

I am not in the way,

Not true. Your win condition does not match the town one, guarunteed, and your targets are likely to be town.

[armlx]

my targets are likely to be whoever my targets are.

There is more town then scum.

[armlx]

OH and I know what game you're talking about and it actually just adds to my meta to prove I'm town now. And if you're gonna try and use it against me, i'm gonna defend myself. Screw referencing on going games. If you can use an on going game against me i can defend myself against it. I freak out when I'm underattack for no reason. I was underattack then for no reason other than I was the only person left in a known group. It was pissing me off that I was gonna be lynched not because I had screwed up and exposed myself as scum, but because of how the game was set up and the roles were revealed left me as the only possible target. There were people that looked scummier than me that were not lynched because the games set up left me exposed.

if this gets me modkilled then i'll be pissed cause I've spoken about the entire situation in generalities and never mentioned what game it was nor any specifics of the game that couldn't be found out by reading the game.

Lol, you posted this in the wrong game.

[armlx]

I've said I will forego my attempts at my target til it lines up with the towns

I don't trust you not to have a potential exclusive win.

Seriously, Zoneace, you can't admit you don't realize killing claimed neutrals is correct play.

[armlx]

when there are people besides the claimed neutrals that pose a greater threat, then yes i can admit i don't realize killing cliamed neutrals is the correct play.

You do realize the fact claimed neutrals aren't confirmed, and as such are in a worse position (of living) post-claim then even townies?

[armlx]

why the hell would I claim a neutral role in this situation unless i was in fact neutral

I've ran the neutral claim as scum before, and given that every role in this game is pretty much assured non-vanilla, you would have to make up a good claim if you were town.

Also, reason ignored for being WIFOM, as you said.

[armlx]

you've still not fiven a good reason as to why i would claim neutral in this situation. Its not a very good claim if I'm lying.

It is, as you are claiming something that can't really be countered or confirmed until you "win" while being believable withing the constraints of no vanillas (pretty much).

[armlx]

but you admit yourself that if Im scum its not a good claim. I have NOTHING TO GAIN by making this claim if I'm scum.

How am I admitting its a bad false claim? The only reason it would be "bad" is because claiming neutral is such a good claim for scum and such a low loss for town to kill that a neutral claim = dead on sight. So basically your only argument that your claim is "bad" involves you admitting you are a good lynch.

[armlx]

Zoneace, why would the scum ever kill you if you are neutral. To them you are confirmed as someone who might just push them to a majority if you have a town target late game.

[armlx]

Ive said I won't go after anyone not okd by the town.

Except the scenario could come up where doing so wins you the game.

Seriously, your promise holds no value with me. As neutral your goal is not to help the town win, only yourself, which very often conflict.

[armlx]

WHAT PART OF I WON'T ATTEMPT TO LYNCH MY TARGET UNLESS IT COINCIDES WITH THE TOWN'S TARGET CAN YOU NOT FULLY COMPREHEND???????

The part where you can and will go back on your deal if it lets you win.

ITS NOT LIKE I'M GONNA BE ABLE TO HIDE THIS GUYS

How can we be assured you aren't lying?

[armlx]

what do I gain from lying about my target??????

Winning comes to mind.

[armlx]

if i lie about my target, and he gets lynched I'M SCREWED I die the next day and oh hay, I DON"T WIN.

Yeah, but why would you say your target is someone likely to get lynched?

Seriously, its not worth discussing this beyond here. Nocmen, shoot Zoneace tonight.

Vote SSF

Wagon him to claim.

[armlx]

At the beginning of the day its ALMOST NEVER OBVIOUS WHO THE LIKELY PERSON TO GET LYNCHED IT.

It is now..... and there are def confirmed townies here to say are your "targets"

[armlx]

Sir T,what are your thoughts on copying Nocmen's vig onto one of our suspects tonight? At this point IMO the double doc thing is less relevant then just killing everyone we aren't sure is town.

[armlx]

I'm with TSS here. I'm 90% sure the scum lies within the group of SSF, mneme, Zoneace, and Fonz, barring cult shenanigans.

[armlx]

Your desire to not full claim makes me want to see a full claim from you now.

[armlx]

I'm doubting that from the nights without kills.

Wasn't that due to Sim?

[armlx]

EBWODP: I do agree there is prob only 1 scum group, but my point is that Nocmen's reasoning isn't valid.

[armlx]

I thought there were 2 nights without kills. N3 and N4. Simenon blocked only one of those Nights.

Oh yeah.

SSF and mneme need moar claimz.

[armlx]

he could be stalling

This is a pretty freaking strong reason.

Now if mneme is lying about being unlynchable we've gotten rid of a lying scum and gotten my annoying presence in the game taken care of all in one swing.

Second.

Vote mneme

I think Armlx and Stark are def more scummy than Fonz.

However, do you believe both of us or just him is more likely to be scum, as thats pretty much the scenario.

[armlx]

unlynchable scum would be COMPLETELY UNBALANCED.

This.

[armlx]

what about that?

Its a true statement? I'm agreeing to show Nocmen he is wrong?

[armlx]

Stark should claim before I do, as if he is wrong about his ability being linked to mine I can "counter claim" it.

[armlx]

Stark got my role right (triple doctor), so I can't see him as scum unless he knows something I don't about my role (ie. quack).

Fonz, the issue now is not that I don't think your role auto pro-town, but the additional parts of it seem very contrived and unbelievable IMHO. Still rather lynch SSF first.

Targets:

N1: Shanba, Jdodge, Twomz

N2: Shanba, Oman, Kison

N3:Twomz, TSS, and Stark

N4: Twomz, TSS, Sir T

N5: TSS, Nocmen, Stark

Twomz's death N1 is odd given this, but to be honest there is no way I would expect a 3x doc to be 100% protection anyways. Broken and what not.

[armlx]

armlx is telling the truth. I made the role. 1 functions as a real doc, another functions as a roleblocker, the other doesn't work. Which one does what is randomized during the night. I doubt the role is given to a scum person, so I think lynching him is a bad idea.

Thanks for the info. I will definitely keep that in mind when I target as I think it has caused some issues (namely the lack of ressing from TSS).

Mneme's claims still needs to be tested as if he is telling the truth we can at 0 cost.

Mneme: Just to make sure, will "lynching" you not end the day?

[armlx]

well it woul dseem that the only thing that could lead to the night 1 contradiction is a role redirector.

Or blocker. Or SSF lying. Waiting on the other claims to see if I am going to vote SSF here.

Also

Unvote

. I will be up for testing mneme later tho.

[armlx]

unless you think we have a scum investigative role.

It is possible, though nonny appears to have been one. Or you could be scum too.

Twomz, Kscope did the thing with Jdodge D3, and Kison is confirmed via Sim. You may want to re-evaulate things.

[armlx]

I'm with TSS here, though I can't explain the contradiction between SSF's results and my targets.

To whoever designed the Hacker role, what were the exact abilities you sent in?

[armlx]

Well, something is up.

I definitely want to use a lynch on Mneme, but not just yet due to the ZONEACE issue. Fonz's and his role over lap a lot as well, another strike vs Fonz. I also don't feel SSF is necessarily lying until we eliminate all the other possibilities (read kill all possible mafia RB's).

I can see the following people as possible scum

ZONEACE
Fonz
Mneme
SSF

The more I look at it, the more Zoneace is probably straight up lying. I agree with TSS about Fonz being a Pumpkin, and %age roles are a general no as well. The only thing making me think he is town is nonny's role having the vote steal according to Twomz.

If you guys want to lynch one of me/stark today, I think lynching him first confirms me more then lynching me first confirms him as he could be using role info from nonny if he was scum.

I also wouldn't trust Twomz/Sir T results from any night I targetted them due to possible RBing.

[armlx]

I think ZONEACE is a survivor, based off a role I sent in and his play.

Fair nuff. He still needs to die.

[armlx]

Maybe I'm really dense, but I'm not understanding why you all want to lynch me.

One of the alternatives to 1-2 of those I listed being scum is both of us given our linked claims. Also the nonny info thing I said earlier.

[armlx]

Lynch mneme, prove he's lying and get me out of the game all at once. its really not that difficult.

No thanks, rather not help a lyncher win.

[armlx]

no you'd rather trick the town into losing.

Eye sea watt ewe deed their.

[armlx]

Ok, here we go.

Kscope investigates Fonz.

Twomz protects SSF, Sir T copies to Twomz.

Nocmen vig's Stark.

SSF watches me on any night.

We lynch ZONEACE.

Tomorrow, we reveal results, lynch mneme. Sim mass blocks.

GG thanks.

[armlx]

Oh, and TSS ressurects Jedi, I protect Fonz, Kison, mneme (no chance of RBing investigation).

[armlx]

We could lynch Stark, vig you. I really don't care at this point.

[armlx]

ZONEACE, we have already discussed how you could very well be lying and must die. Sorry, try again next time.

[armlx]

I would rather go and kill someone who is confirmed nontown over someone who I am less certain about if they are scum or town.

Again, both are dying. Seems irrel which one you actually kill.

[armlx]

you have 0% chance of killing scum if you kill me.

ZONEACE, we have already discussed how you could very well be lying and must die. Sorry, try again next time.

Also, nice last paragraph. I'm not on a different faction, I'm just not on yours.

[armlx]

ZONEACE, I know enough about playing as neutral to know that if you are lyncher I don't trust your claimed WC one bit to resolve as you claim.

[armlx]

WHAT THE FUCK OTHER WC COULD I HAVE AS A LYNCHER????

Auto game win, scum with lynched bonus, etc. The list goes on. Seriously, what reason do we have to trust you at all?

[armlx]

Scum with lyncher* bonus. AKA bookie, but scum.

[armlx]

Bookie: The Bookie is a Townie who each night may place a bet on either (a) who will be killed during that night, or (b) who will be lynched during the following day. If the Bookie wins his bet, he will have an additional choice the following night -- (a) bring someone back to life, or (b) investigate someone, with the option of looking for either Mafia or Werewolves. If the chosen person is dead, he shall be brought back to life. If he is alive, the Bookie will be told whether or not that person is Mafia/Werewolf.

From Back to Gambits 2. Obviously could be adjusted.

[armlx]

so then you think ssf is mafia as well because I'm the bbokie and i confirmed he was telling the truth about his role? is that the gist of it?

I don't think that SSF's alignment is tied to yours in any way. Unlike Kscope, you didn't cause the lynch of a mafia, and mafia can and do confirm town roles (though he could still be scum in theory, though see Desperate mafia and Springlullaby late game for an example of scum confirming town to seem town).

[armlx]

Also, what possibility does my list of actions + alignments does my list exclude? If you can show me one that is considerable, let me know and I can show you the solution.

[armlx]

Again, how the hell can we lose from this scenario given the plan of action I stated?

[armlx]

1 adjustment to my protects: Sim is an auto choice, but the other 2 will be randomed out of Fonz, Kison, and mneme.

So, Zoneace, who can the mafia kill in my scenario?

TSS? Why do we care, his job is done by reanimating someone.

Belg? Not a power role, irrel?

Sir T? Doesn't stop any confirmations.

Twomz? Protected.

Me? Again, doesn't unconfirm anyone.

Sim? There is a 1/6 chance he won't be protected tomorrow night. Sounds awkward.

Fonz? Sure, killing someone we need confirmed seems like win, not even considering the 1/3 chance of protection.

SSF? Protected, Sorry.

You/Stark? We are already killing them.

Nocmen? W/e, doesn't stop anyone from being confirmed.

Kscope? Can't.

Mneme? Either is scum and lying or they can't.

Kison? Doesn't stop a confirmation.

Seriously, the most damaging kill the scum can make tomorrow has a 1/6 shot of working, or I could just make it a 100% chance of fail by targetting mneme over Kison.

[armlx]

Armlx, I like your plan, but I'd rather we flip around stark and ZONEACE.

As I said, I don't really care which one is vigged/lynched, just as long he one we believe is most likely straight up lying about their role is the lynch. ATM I'm leaning Zoneace on that, but obviously I am slightly biased on start, though I can see a case for him involving nonny's role.

[armlx]

I regret not having mentioned this, but in claiming, it did not occur to me that the town would get into its head that I am a good lynch choice. Upon my death, 3 random players will be stripped of their powers, and given double-bodyguard instead, provided I have not stripped anyone as of dying.

We have the equivilant of 7 doctors in the town, if Sir T mimics armlx. This gives scum only a 6/13 chance of making a kill. Just keep us both alive, and we'll all be fine.

What twomz said. I'm almost convinced now you are scum with nonny who got my role info. That said, if this is true, its not worth the risk of lynching you and having it happen now. Zoneace it is then, vig you tonight.

Vote ZONEACE

[armlx]

Yeah, more mneme lynching is probably in order. Rather shoot stark then investigate given the number of cop roles in this game. Shooting is an assured accurate result.

I'll vote once we are done discussing.

[armlx]

If I was scum, why didn't I just kill armlx N1?

Depends what night you were routed the info from nonny and what your priorities were at that point in time. I can't see you as scum getting the info say N1 and letting me live this long, but the last couple nights there have been other issues a scum group would want to deal with.

[armlx]

EBWODP: That last post is written based on the assumption you are scum and know my role as nonny found it and told the scum, which is the only way I can see you be scum at this point in time given my knowledge of my role.

Stark, simply put, the game is lock up for town if we just follow through with the plan of actions. Can you name a single possibility that plan doesn't account for?

[armlx]

Stark, depends how much info on my role you received.

Again, if you are town, please answer the second part of my last post.

[armlx]

We aren't lynching you stark, we are lynching mneme and vigging you.

[armlx]

Not considering that every single person in the game will be confirmed/outed tomorrow morning.

[armlx]

That seems FAR superior Sir T. That lets Kscope investigate SSF and Twomz can protect whoever he feels like.

[armlx]

Hmm, EBWODP, but I can even protect Twomz now.

Basically, all the doctors are free if you vig Fonz. I say do it.

[armlx]

You realize that if you vig me tonight, I could throw a gigant monkeywrench in your plans by stripping someone, right?

Except all the confirming is done tonight.

[armlx]

Twomz, 4-5 mafia is more realistic especially considering the ones revealed were power roles.

[armlx]

Sir T, mneme is probably the worst of those targets as the only way he could be scum is 1 shot lynch immune which we can just try again later if needed. The best is probably SSF, as if he is confirmed town and all possible mafia RB's are dead you know I am lying.

Twomz may want to consider re-trying you, but the issue becomes whether he lives to see day if thats the plan.

Anyways, current plan:

Kscope investigates SSF

Sir T vig's Fonz

Nocmen vig's stark

SSF goes back and looks at either myself any night other than N1.

TSS ressurects Jedi.

I protect Sim, mneme, and Belg

Kison protects Twomz

Twomz protects Sir T.

[armlx]

Why protect Mneme if he's 'invincible'?

I need a 3rd target that isn't performing a night action.

Armlx, I don't think Mneme is mafia. I just think there is a chance he is neutral (he mentioned a special win condition)

K, so lets just kill the mafia first then deal with this. I don't think we care too much about someone who is at worst neutral.

Why is TSS resurrecting Jedi? Shouldn't he resurrect CKD so that we can get confirmation on the cult thing?

He should be. I forgot about the cult thing for a minute.

[armlx]

In reference to the third point, how would reviving CKD give us confirmation on the cult issue? Would we really want to give a possible cult two votes (one offical and one controlled by the same person)?

Belg would presumably still be town, and as town is in the best position to win CKD has incentive to turn himself in.

Otherwise I endorse the armlx plan. This includes the ssf-investigates-armlx part -- armlx has claimed his targets, so you know what nights to avoid, ssf -- and if ssf dies tonight, armlx is policy-lynched at the first available opportunity.

This.

I think Twomz should protect SSF tonight to insure the only way he could die is if I was lying.

[armlx]

CKD is being ressurected so on the off chance TSS is a CR he can tell us as the town auto wins if he does, where as if he doesn't he risks a loss.

If CKD's win condition changed, wouldn't Belg's win condition change?

We are unsure of this, but it seems they are 2 different players, so no.

Twomz, whether or not he dies is irrelevant if I am lying and he targets me a night I targeted him. Either he knows because he lives, or we all know because he dies through doc protection.

[armlx]

I really think we have a mafia blocker at this point given the failed revivals and the N1 discrepancy with SSF and myself.

[armlx]

Either that or he can only revive people who were NKed. Which would be a fair restriction for a role that powerful.

True. Or if Fonz is telling the truth %ages could be involved.

[armlx]

[quote="The Fonz"][quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]Can we get a lynch like now?[/quote]

Not until ST repents of his silly plan to vig me.[/quote]

Not happening. Its good idea.

[armlx]

Fonz

A) what does the bookkeeper thing have to do with anything and

B) the lynch aspect of the role applies.

[armlx]

Sorry, I was confused with the whole Zoneace argument about bookkeeper.

Frankly, I think you are lying about your role right now Fonz and are claiming the most absurd thing possible to avoid a lynch.

[armlx]

I wasn't in any danger before the massclaim, and frankly people were assuming that the QFT was the whole of my role, which, if I were scum, I could have just gone along with, and no-one would have batted an eyelid.

And Bookmaker isn't absurd... I believe there was one in at least one previous designer game.

The %age part is whats absurd, and all the immunities.

[armlx]

EBWODP: You were being looked at pre-mass claim by TSS +slightly myself BTW. There was still suspicion about your role.

[armlx]

Yes, and TSS was omgusing me for not going along with his incredibly scummy plan. On which you agreed with me, but are not using against me.

His original suspicion was unwarranted, but since then things have happened that have made me question your alignment.

[armlx]

Fonz: Mainly set up related such that everyone is/will be cleared but you and a couple others in my eyes.

Again, I will cite what I said to stark: What is there in the plan I have stated that could go wrong?

[armlx]

Again, I will cite what I said to stark: What is there in the plan I have stated that could go wrong?

Fonz, please respond to this. I'm pretty sure you can't which invalidates your whole post.

[armlx]

Your plan involves vigging me. Therefore, it's 'going wrong' from the outset. What use is a plan to stop scum doing this and that when it involves killing off a powerful town role anyway?

A power role dying != town losing. How could my plan lead to a town loss?

[armlx]

How could any plan lead to a town loss in a single night?

Ok, then how does my plan NOT lead to a town win?

[armlx]

Your plan involves directing the death of a town player, ie doing the scum's job for them. Therefore, it obviously makes a town win LESS likely, doesn't it?

It creates a way to confirm every players role in some way. How does that not lead to a town win.

If there was any doubt before that Fonz should be vigged, this clears it up.

[armlx]

Except that it won't work, because almost certainly at least one of the claimed protective roles is lying.

Explain how that matters, as the only one protecting someone relevant is the confirmed one.

[armlx]

Will vote for mneme once everyone else decides its time to go to night and has stated they will follow the plan.

[armlx]

There just isn't that much of a reason to drag this day on, being as we're working on the same info as yesterday, just with confirmation that Zoneace wasn't mafia.

The reason to drag it out is to simply assure that everything goes according to plan tonight.

[armlx]

Kscope investigates someone.

Sir T vig's Fonz

Nocmen vig's stark

SSF goes back and looks at either myself any night other than N1.

Twomz protects SSF.

TSS ressurects CKD.

I protect Sim, mneme, and Belg

Kison protects Twomz

Twomz protects Sir T.

[armlx]

EBWODP:


Kscope investigates someone.

Sir T vig's Fonz

Nocmen vig's stark

SSF goes back and looks at either myself any night other than N1.

Twomz protects SSF.

TSS ressurects CKD.

I protect Sim, mneme, and Belg

Kison protects Twomz

[armlx]

Why Sim?

[armlx]

Kscope does -not- investigate anyone. Kscope's "immortal townie" status is more valuable at this point, IMO, than his investigation.

Doubt it.

[armlx]

How did Twomz clear us?

His protection tells him if he targets scum.

[armlx]

Twomz, how could Kison RB you, and how could that be more disruptive to you sharing your result then you dying?

Twomz, the reason we are having you redo some of the targets is I may have RB'ed you, though if you targeted TSS one of the no-revive nights I targeted him I'm pretty sure my RB landed on him that night.

[armlx]

Bah. Glad I'm dead though, cults fucking suck.

[armlx]

Ok. Rant time.

1st off, fuck %ages on protections and Fonz's role. Pure random like that has no place in mafia.

2nd, that cult was actually the worst possible cult for the town ever. Not only does its role make it low likelyhood for a recruit to die early, the recruits don't even turn early which leaves no trail.

That said, the other roles were really good.