Designer Mafia 2007 - Game Over, Final Scene Posted!
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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Has anyone actually tried, to, y'know, read Oman's posts? Each QFT adds a 25% chance of an extra vote. He got QFTed six times yesterday, which means at least two votes, and a 50% chance of a third.
Which, as it happens, came up, so I have three separate votes today.
Vote: Sir Tornado, Nocmen, The Silent Speaker
Mass OMGUS! I'll sit down and slog through everything this evening.-
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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Just a quick point- the multivote stops working at all when there are five or fewer players left living.mneme wrote:
CKD, Oman puportedly gets +.25 of a vote for each QFT, maxing out at +2 votes. He got QFT-spammed today (by Belgarion, mostly), so he presumably gets 3 votes tomorrow. I'll note that Oman's role is more or less broken as mafia (it lets the mafia win from 5/2 town/mafia if QFT-spamming works and the town doesn't have double voters or night kills!). so I'd count him as near confirmed if he can prove his claim. (that said, could be a kill-optional SK, or maybe mafia can't QFT, only town). Plus, of course, more multi-votes than we've seen claimed would balance this out to a degree.
Why would I do that? I'm not Oman, and being able to think like him is not an ability I'm particularly keen on acquiring. The only difference between my view of him and yours is that I can rule out scum motives. If I had to guess, I'd say he just wasn't paying that much attention.the silent speaker wrote: Fonz, if you could try to answer some of the other questions I had on Oman's behavior that he's no longer around to answer for, that would be good. In particular what do you think of Kaleidoscope and can you justify Oman's shifting positions there?
Flameaxe clearly needs replacing.
Unvote: SirT, TSS, Nocmen
Vote: armlx, for starters.-
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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Per QFT. Or rather, I think per post containing a quote of me, and a QFT. QFT spamming does work, since I think half of my six QFTs yesterday were by Belgarion. If only one per player counted, I'd only have two votes.mneme wrote:
Is it per QFT or per different player QFTing? (ie, does spamming work?)The Fonz wrote:
Just a quick point- the multivote stops working at all when there are five or fewer players left living.mneme wrote: I'll note that Oman's role is more or less broken as mafia (it lets the mafia win from 5/2 town/mafia if QFT-spamming works and the town doesn't have double voters or night kills!).
Well, for starters, it isn't a mafia role. And i really don't think it's likely there's a scumgroup with three members, though there may well be three or more living antitown roles.But yes, if it stops working given 5 living players, as a mafia role, it lets the mafia potentially control the vote given 3 living mafia (lets them win an 11/3 going into night, assuming they can spam), but not given 2 living mafia and no extra kills.
True. Can you give your own opinion on, say, Kali?[/quote]The Fonz wrote: Why would I do that? I'm not Oman, and being able to think like him is not an ability I'm particularly keen on acquiring.
Will do. Gimme a little while.-
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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OK, My take on Kalei:
Day one, bandwagons a lot, doesn't really say anything. Par for the course for Scope.
Due to scope having created the Grim role, JDodge killing said role, and Scope pointing this out, it's hugely unlikely that Scope is scum with JDodge, since he would presumably have warned him, or at least, not brought it up himself.
Then he votes CKD. Hmmm.
Schis' interactions with Scope, to me, do not look particularly like bussing (also, see my meta of disliking people who think 'bus' as soon as a scum is lynched).
I've got him as non-groupscum for now, unless it becomes clear we have multiple groups.
My point is saying 'unless you think his predecessor did scummy things' is somewhat redundant when said predecessor is BM, who always does scummy things.armlx wrote:Your point?
Well, I don't see two multivoters. I see what is in effect a mason pair under the control of a single player, and one player that has a multivote in specific circumstances. I also see the existence of a kingmaker, that renders multiple votes ineffective on the day (s)? it's used. When you add in whatever powers scum might have, sure, it's totally possible.curiouskarmadog wrote:
Fonz, why the vote on armix....
and your thoughts, is it possible for the same alignment to have two multi-voters?
AS for Armlx: SSF wasn't on the Schiz wagon, attacked Nocmen who is fairly likely town, attacks Nocmen and Thyroid with fairly bad arguments (the first worst than the second, though note how he attacks Thyroid for promoting his tickets after having bought one himself) and subtly defends JDodge.-
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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OK, let me explain what's wrong with this.the silent speaker wrote:Unvote, vote: The Fonz
Had you accepted, you would have put two free votes at the disposal of people you personally considered to be guaranteed town. (You will note that I made no provision that you would have to listen tome.) I can only attribute your refusal to a wish not to be a Judas.
It meant getting me an extra two votes, but requiring me to use it on only those playersyoudidn't consider obvtown. Since there's only six players not on that list, one is me, and the chances are we were going to lynch another today, then my vote is essentially beholden to you. So it's a case of me getting an extra vote, but only if YOU like it, which actually means that the pair of us have a collective vote which can be used if the two of us agree.
Plus, you haven't explained the rationale of your list despite repeated requests.
Basically, your offer was scummy as hell, and any town player in their right mind would have rejected it.
Oh, the joys of additional votes.
vote: The silent speaker, the silent speaker-
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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I wanted you to give any kind of reason at all to justify the inclusion of those names on the list.the silent speaker wrote:
WHAT ISSUES? I listed people who were obvtown, explaining that all of them fell into at least one of three categories (some fell into more):I repeat again, answer the questions from last page and stop dodging the issues.
1. Town by investigation.
2. Pro-town use of role.
3. Sound scumhunting with no red flags.
You and Fonz wanted me to specify who fell into which category. But you and FOnz are probably scum, so I see no reason I should help you.
That's your opinion. Also, you're backtracking- you were previously making out like they were all obvtown.On my list there were perhaps three people a reasonable person could argue are not obvtown --
BULLSHIT.note that we are not reaching whether a reasonable person could argue that they are not town, only whether they are notobvtown. There is no reason a pro-town Fonz should have even the slightest interest in voting anyone on that list, so a pro-town Fonz gives up NOTHING.
True, although, woops, look what's happened since then! I've gained a second vote, with no strings attached! Go me! If it's acceptable to take your offer, why couldn't someone else undercut you with a less restrictive offer? You are not the only one who can QFT me.As for the notion that "my vote is essentially beholden to you" -- baloney. First of all, you are not guaranteed to have those votes, and I explicitly specified that this only applies to the extras.
Or theirs.Second, even if you don't think too highly of me, you have your pick of eight players to follow, and if you don't like where one of them is voting, you can simplyfollow one of the others. If you don't like where six of them are voting but are also pro-town yourself, something is wrong with your brain.
So now they're all obvtown again?If our whole obvtown contingent is votingyouwhen you're providing them with an extra two votes, you can bet there will be a damned good reason why.
You told me I couldn't vote you. You told me I couldn't vote half the players in the game. That's pretty much leaving me beholden to you any way you slice it. You also said 'yAnd I made a point of NOT tying your extras to me personally, so that's a lie, too.
You think anSir Tornado, I know I'm pro-town and I put myself in the "sound scumhunting" category by default (since obviously I wouldn't say anything I thought was unconvincing). I think my attack on JDodge, FOS of Schism,FOSon a scum whilst pushing a counterwagon to that scum's wagon should put you in thetowncolumn?
You also said this:
Which is a flat-out lie. I never agreed the people on your list were town.the silent speaker wrote:Unvote, vote: The Fonz
Had you accepted, you would have put two free votes at the disposal of people you personally considered to be guaranteed town.
It'sthe silent speaker wrote:Armlx, the to-avoid list is of the obvious town. The restriction is only nominally ofmychoosing.
youropinion on who's obvtown, which I disagree with in at least one significant respect. I won't vote for anyoneIthink is obvtown- your attempt to tell me what to think is just shit.
Inside knowledge. You can only say this if you know me to be town.the silent speaker wrote:How is armlx scum? Oh lordy me, let me count the ways.
TSS thinks armlx is scum, because TSS doesn't think armlx is obvtown.-- He is not on The List.
No, he's accurately portraying as scummy your lumping yourself in with the 'obvtown.'-- He is attempting to portray as irrational my considering myself as town.
-- He has opposed, and is continuing to oppose, a plan that would have given the town two free votesguaranteed to not be guided by scum.-
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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It is noteworthy that every resurrector i've ever seen was one-shot. A power to resurrect any dead town as confirmed town, and do it multiple times, seems incredibly broken.Kison wrote: That being said, something is either broken or scum-driven, here. Never really payed attention to the fact that every last "dead" player who was Town is now alive(Twomz, Shanba, Nocmen). This makes me worry about TSS.-
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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Well yes, but that does have an awful lot to do with you having rocks for brains.the silent speaker wrote:
NotFonz wrote:Is it just me, or is all we do in this game to run someone up to claim, then conclude from their role they can't be scum?all. I think you, for example, are scum in spite of your claim.-
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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I haven't fullclaimed. Oman claimed part of the role.Sir Tornado wrote:
unvote
jediknight
Sir Tornado
Belgarion
curiouskarmadog
Simenon
The Fonz
Twomz
Nocmen
TSS
The above listed players (apart from you) have already claimed, so if it is one of us, then you might want to claim that. I don't remember whether mneme has claimed or not.
Except, you know, all the things that your predecessor did and didn't do, and the scumminess of your claim.nonny wrote:So L-1, and I have nothing to defend. Except to point out that I have been very willing to help and cooperated. So when/if you do the deed you will all be greatly disappointed for not giving me a chance.
I've got to admit, I admire the audacity of making a wifom defence and then claiming that you shouldn't be lynched because it's wifom.nonny wrote:You say I must be scum because I claim the most used scum claim. I know it the most used scum claim so why would i claim it if i were scum. That is WIFOM, that is classic WIFOM.
I didn't believe we were massclaiming? And I'm capable of hammering on my own i think, so be clear what you're expecting to see, and quick.Sir Tornado wrote:OH, THE HORROR!
If ZONEACE is next in your list then why are you opposed to him claiming today Armlx?
I would request people not to hammer until we have all the claims.-
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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Funny you should mention it, just returned to the site today.Twomz wrote:
I don't know why people aren't claiming now... the mafia being able to prioritize shouldn't matter at this point since we should be able to lynch them off in the next 2 or 3 days.stark wrote:I voice my support for a massclaim.
BTW, where is fonz?
My claim: I am a bookmaker. Each night I can make predictions as to who will die that night, and who will be lynched the following day. Every correct prediction will result in the chances of a nightkill on me failing increase by a quarter, but each incorrect one will increase the chances of a doc protect failing, down to a 50% floor.
Same thing with lynches: a correct prediction gives me 25% lynch protection, which can be added together, but each incorrect one millerizes me slightly: it adds 10% to the likelihood of a cop finding me guilty, down to a floor of 50%.
I believe I have been wrong on all the lynches: I'm not going to disclose, for obvious reasons, how many times I've guessed right on NKs.
Day 1: Belgarion Lynch
Day 2: Kscope Lynch
Day 3: UA Lynch
Day 4: Kison Lynch
Day 5: Stark Lynch
This is in addition to the QFT power listed above.
I now warmly await the dumbass arguments that a potentially bulletproof, unlynchable, protown multivoter is broken.-
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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[quote="armlx"][quote="The Fonz"][quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]Can we get a lynch like now?[/quote]
Not until ST repents of his silly plan to vig me.[/quote]
Not happening. Its good idea.[/quote]
It's utterly ridiculous. Who the hell ever heard of a scum bookkeeper?
There's a really fucking obvious reason why book-keepers can't be scum. Think about it....
That's right, the scum KNOW WHO THEY ARE NIGHTKILLING! Therefore it would be rather easy to predict them, wouldn't it?-
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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That's ridiculous, arm... I wasn't in any danger before the massclaim, and frankly people were assuming that the QFT was the whole of my role, which, if I were scum, I could have just gone along with, and no-one would have batted an eyelid.
And Bookmaker isn't absurd... I believe there was one in at least one previous designer game.-
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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What? Please, tell me what those things are. Because as far as I'm concerned, nothing has really changed with regard to me, but you've done a 180.
On a side note, I'm actually flattered you think I could make this shit up, but it's still ridiculous. The only plausible explanation is that I DO have this role, and that it is protown.-
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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Yes, because if I'm telling the truth, me being vigged won't cost my side at all...the silent speaker wrote:Simenon: I disagree. The only reason for Fonz to be so desperate not to be vigged is that he is scum and knows what vigging will cost his side.
You're quite right there's a contrast: you're quite wrong in which way it goes. In what way is it ever 'the town's best chance of winning' to kill a town player, barring 2-1-1? Town players should fight to the last breath.Contrast armlx's equanimity to the prospect of being lynched tomorrow on policy if SSF should wake up dead; this is because armlx knows that his lynch will aid the town's best chance of winning. The same applies to mneme's consent to his own lynch today.
Also, there are plenty of other reasons why Fonz must die.
Name 'em, smartass.
What do you mean, which I cannot have? There's plenty of reason to think someone other than me is the scum.the silent speaker wrote:But without a counter-theory, which he has not and cannot have, he has no reason to be angry. His claim brings us no reason to believe it is true and his play gives us no reason to think he is town.
And I'd say that objectively, rejecting your offer was a clear town tell.-
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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Wahoo! Not only am I alive, and my persecutors dead, but I predicted stark's death overnight (not that hard, given 'the plan') and now have +25% NK immunity.
I only regret that, thinking i was going to die, I didn't bother to get the rest of you to QFT me up just in case. (Well, that and the fact I was so angry at arm/TSS that I never got around to writing up the analysis i was planning, and now have to do over).
Plan went wrong, didn't it?
It should be fairly easy to see who didn't stick to the plan, scummy as it was... let me re-read.-
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I'm willing to say that I had *some* chance of nk immunity last night, and that I have more tonight. I'm not willing to specify quite how much.
The big flaw in TSS' argument against me was that my role is more likely to end up a multivoting, unprotectable miller, than a bulletproof unlynchable.
I still find it hard to believe that TSS' role worked perfectly as advertised. Too broken.-
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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How does the plan going 'wrong' make me more suspicious? You'd think, given that Sir T has claimed to have tried to kill me, that he's either lying or my role is what I say it is (which makes no sense as scum). None of the actions that apparently 'went wrong' were performed by me. So how, in a million bloody years, does the plan going wrong implicate me?Nocmen wrote:I'm not liking this night kill immunity stuff by The Fonz, paired with an extra vote and being still a bit suspicious from the plan going wrong.
Vote: The Fonz-
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Sigh, why are people becoming more and more sure I'm not town, the more evidence arises pointing the other way?
That's four people saying they'll vote me. What's your reason? Do you still buy armlx/tss' positions? Do you think I'm pulling a 'flying pumpkin' gambit? Do you really think bulletproof multivoting Godfather is a viable role? Furthermore, given the difficulty scum will have in killing me and the additional power i can wield with my multivote, do you actually think there is any player in the entire game we need to confirm more than me?-
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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The Fonz Jack of All Trades
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Yes. The scum undoubtedly have something.
Which is why none of the 'confirmed' should be treated as such.
Today went down with no discussion, there was not even any suggestion that i was actually scummy. Four unreasoned votes in the space of about four hours. Those of you who are town, you should be absolutely hanging your heads in shame. You're all established players here, and you've played like the dumbest n00bs imaginable. I mean, y'all didn't consider me scummy enough to lynch previously- and the evidence of me-town is stronger today than it's ever been.-
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