Prophecy Mafia - Over

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Fine, whatever. Just pretend for a minute that you think I AM an ignorant townsperson. DOES SOMEONE ACTUALLY KNOW THERE ARE FIVE MAFIA???

question, Lowell, how did you know the game started again?

I dont' understand this question. I missed the scumlist because I replaced in and didn't read carefully. I know when game starts because it shoots to the top of my watched list. What's the question here?

You replaced in? Really? According to the list on page one, and your participation in the random voting phase, you've been in since the start.

Oh. Hi everyone, by the way.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

So, my thinking at the moment is that we shoudl try and help ourselves as much as possible, and that means narrowing down the potential lynchees. Since Oman has claimed suvivor and nobody has, as yet, counter-claimed him, if we assume he's making a genuine claim, then we've got 10 people to choose from, and our odds of hitting scum to survive lylo are 50-50. However... if we know who the vig is, we get to choose from 9 people - 4 town, 5 scum. Those are better odds for us, right? Since the scum will kill a town aligned role tonight anyway, and the vig has been coming up town every time he's tried to NK, the fact that the vig will most likely die tonight probably isn't as much of an issue, since right now we NEED to come up with scum today. That happens, we survive to tomorrow, and if we finally have a scum identified, we can use the 56 pages of evidence to finally hit the spot more frequently.

I mean, the town is facing almost certain defeat since we have to hit scum 5 times in a row to win, realistically... so is it worth it?

[DizzyIzzyB13]

It's lylo. At this point, surely finding scum is more important than keeping our power roles alive? I mean, keeping the vig alive is all well and good, but unless we hit scum and he hits scum tonight, we lose. And you know what? I didn't catch up 56 pages and replace into a game on day 5 just to *lose*. :p

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Why would you want to vote for me? I'm entirely harmless. All I've done is state an option of attack that is supported by the fundamental mathematics of the situation. What's the case against me based on what my predecessor did?

vote: curioskarmadog

- A little bit gut feeling, a little bit OMGUS.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Yes, because putting a vote on someone who has no votes for OMGUS and gut reasons is so, so dangerous. Honestly, your attitude during the catch up I had to do drove me crazy. You do not give off good vibes. You're voting for me based on *nothing*. Seriously. If you're voting for me based entirely on the alleged "slip" my predecessor is supposed to have made, then you're even more supid than I thought you were.

You're completely ignoring the fact that Lowell is playing stupid, just jumped on a wagon for even less reason than I had for voting for you and is allegedly responsible for inspiring the aforementioned alleged "slip", completely ignoring the fact that the alleged "slip" was made by someone else who was promptly nightkilled and proven to be pro-town. Maybe attempting to be clever and cryptic is a good move to confuse people so his scumbuddies can jump right on the wagon and get rid of a poor, innocent confused townie.

Seriously. Make a better case than "OMG, Lowell's cryptic statement confused him". Quit being an idiot. Or, I could just

unvote

, VOTE: [v/] vote: DizzyIzzyB13[/b] and, put myself at L-1 and yell "Go scum!", since that pretty much wins the game for you.

But I won't, since I'd actually like to win. So...

unvote

,

vote: curiouskarmadog

. You have no case against me aside a spurious, nothing case built up from a single incident that's been proven to be indicative of nothing (see: farside22 having the same reaction and coming up town). I might consider that you're a townie who hasn't got a read on anyone and is grasping at straws because it's lylo, but you're so aggressive and sure of yourself that I feel you're a bullying scum who wants a quick lynch and victory.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

unvote, vote dizzy

. Why the hell not.

Hi there, Wagon-riding scum!

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Flameaxe, I've no idea why they haven't lynched you yet, you goddamn spamming jerk. That's not an insult, by the way, it's a summary of the irritating spam I had to read through to catch up. You're also probably scum. I wouldn't be surprised if you, Lowell, curiouskarmadog, UltimaAvalon and Oman were the 5 scum.

I mean, with the scum pretty much running the board, I'd be looking to put suspicion on the people who've managed to last to the end in this game without wanting to/needing to be replaced on account of townie defeatism. I'd put good money on at least half of the six people who haven't been replaced and are still alive being scum.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Wait.

There are 11 players left. 4town+vig+Survivor v. GF+4 goons. Correct me if I'm wrong... but unless we lynch mafia or no lynch today, isn't the game over and night kills are irrelevent? I mean, if we lynch a townie, then it's essentially 5 v. 5, assuming the survivor still counts as town, and that means a mafia win, right?

[DizzyIzzyB13]

I'm still waiting for someone to explain why I am scum so that I may defend myself.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Quit acting like the scum you are and answer the question. Why is my role a "scum role"?

[DizzyIzzyB13]

You are scum and you are acting like it. Answer the question.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

That's no kind of case. Make an actual case, not one based on an entirely flawed and insanely stupid premise.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

You're making a judgement based on one of two people who were confused by a cryptic reference to the flavour of the game. The other one who was NKed was (shock, horror) town aligned. And the amusing thing is, the flavour in question that sykedoc was apparently ignorant of was mentioned in the mafia role PMs as well, making any judgement based on knowledge or lack thereof entirely pointless since everyone should know.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Minor slip up. I forgot the Mafia Doc.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

I never suspected farside, he remark wasnt really a slip up...do you have any clue what sykedoc slipped up on? how do you know it was mentioned in mafia role PMs?

If you think I don't get it - EXPLAIN IT, moron.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

lol, when in doubt and you feel like you are losing, insults?

so for the record you have no clue what the slip up is and you dont want to comment on how you know it was mentioned in mafia role PMs?

if you are not voting dizzy, I want to know why.

I prefer to consider it accurate description rather than an insult, but feel free to take it as you will. Regardless, the fact that you can't actually make any sort of case against me pretty much proves the point that you're scum.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Okay. I know what CKD is referring to by your "slip up", Dizzy. The problem is that it also caught a couple of other people, and at least one of those people turned out not to be scum. And I don't like this whole "If you're not voting ______ I demand an explanation" thing anyway. Why rush a lynch in that manner, especially in LYLO?

Well, reading back, the "slip" appears to be that skyedoc didn't understand what Lowell meant in 1282 (CKD referenced post 1285 and 1288 at the only point he offered any sort of case against me, both of which refer to that). Which, based on the townie role PM and the flavour seems to be a reference to him being aligned with the "Church". Except... it's mentioned in the scum role PMs that the opposing faction is the Church, so any understanding or lack thereof of that point is essentially irrelevent. I'd hazard a guess that that's the point that hasdgfas was making in 1287.

Dizzy, I'd like your opinion on why Sykedoc quit so abruptly and angrily. To me that's a worse scumtell than the one CKD is harping on, and while you can't know what he was thinking, I'd like some sort of response about it.

Judging by the PM he sent me last night (that I didn't respond to on the grounds that it'd be discussing an ongoing game), he quit because curiouskarmadog's refusal to make a case against him drove him mad.

CKD, I'd like you to explain this quote:

lol, when in doubt and you feel like you are losing, insults?

Because I don't like the implication of that statement at all. What did you mean by "in doubt and you feel like you are losing", exactly?

I'm of the belief it's "lol, we scum are winning and annoying townies at the same time, awesome!" more than anything.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

You know, I apologise for calling Flameaxe a jerk. That came from annoyance at reading through the 20 or so pages worth of spam there is in this thread thanks to him.

I don't apologise for calling curiouskarmadog a moron. If you're going to act stupid, you should be prepared to be called stupid. Deal with it.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

so what was cryptic about what Lowell posted?...I know that it is an open set up, but the fact that Lowell posted that, and Syk didnt have a clue what he was talking about speaks volumes...again, how do you know it is mentioned in the mafia PM? I only see a town win condition in the mod's post.

Did he say "I am a member of the Church"? No. He gave hints rather than making a statement. How does that not qualify as "cryptic"? You're basically making an assumption about someone for forgetting flavour, not for doing anything actually scummy.

As for the Mafia role PMs... I assume that since the generic PMs themselves were linked to by the mod in earlier posts, this doesn't break any rules:

MAFIA GF:

You are the God of the cult of false prophets that is attempting to overthrow the

Church

(Mafia Godfather). Your followers are ____ (Doc), ____, ____, and ____. Since you are a god and all, your powers allow you to look town if the cop investigates you. Each night, you may speak with your followers freely, and instruct one of them to "erase" one of the loyal followers of the

Church

.

You win when you have eliminated all non-mafia roles, or when nothing can prevent this.

MAFIA DOC

You are the healer of the cult of false prophets that is attempting to overthrow the

Church

(Mafia Doc). Your god is ____ (Godfather), and your fellow false prophets are ____, ____, and ____. Since you are a healer and all, your powers allow you to treat all sorts of wounds. Each night, you may target one person, whose death will be prevented. Each night, you may speak with your God and your colleagues, and decide on one loyal follower of the

Church

to "erase".

You win when you have eliminated all non-mafia roles, or when nothing can prevent this.

MAFIA GOON

You are a member of the cult of false prophets that is attempting to overthrow the

Church

(Mafia Goon). Your god is ____ (Godfather), your healer is ____ (Doc), and your colleagues are ____, and ____. Each night, you may speak with your God and your colleagues, and decide on one loyal follower of the

Church

to "erase".

You win when you have eliminated all non-mafia roles, or when nothing can prevent this.

They are aquired from HERE, as linked to in post two. Note the multiple references to the "Church" in each of them.

Bookitty, I note you defense of Dizzy, did I say "and you feel like you are losing"?

I said when in doubt...DIzzy obviously didnt know how to answer my question, becuase they were avoided twice (once at the time I posted that)...so instead of answering the question, he insulted me..

I was waiting for you to answer the question i asked you first. Also... pay attention and get genders right, please. Especially when you have a nice helpful little pink/blue icon to help.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

again, the slip up wasnt that fact that Lowell referred to the word "chruch"..it was the fact that sky had no clue that Lowell was talking about...and said that lowell was being cryptic...

I would like you to justify not calling Lowell cryptic. It's an accurate description of his post. And again... you're implying he's scum for forgetting flavour. The other person who forgot the flavour wasn't scum. The flavour he's supposed to have forgotten was in every single role PM. There's no basis for actually assuming he's scum based on the evidence placed in front of you.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

I assumed you had more of a case than just that, because based on the fact that when I replaced in I read everything and thus knew the contents of all the role PMs and such, it seemed far too obvious that it wasn't any sort of legit case. But, since you appear to have been arguing from a position of ignorance (as in, unaware of key information, with no pejorative intent) rather than from a stupidly held position... well, I apologise for calling you a moron and

unvote

.

Syke flaked out probably because he couldn't work out what your case against him was and it drove him mad that you wouldn't make a case against him he could defend against.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

I don't like the fact that when CKD unvoted Dizzy unvoted too. Seems really OMGUS.

I unvoted because part of my believe in curiouskarmadog being scum was based on the fact that I assumed he had information which his post gave me the distinct impression he didn't, thus my case against him was damaged to the point that it didn't warrant a vote.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

The game seems to have stalled. Anyone got any bright ideas about how to kick-start it?

[DizzyIzzyB13]

If you think he is most likely scum, then why are you cncerned with giving him time to defend yourself? He'a done no significant posting since the beginning of the game. Why are you concerned that he starts now?

Because it's far too important that we get it right this turn to not ensure that we make a decision based on the best possible information.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Giving someone the opportunity to defend themselves does not mean giving them the opportunity to avoid defending themselves. If they just don't bother to make the case for their defence, then that is clear evidence that they're probably guilty. But you can't lynch someone without giving them a chance in this situation.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Lowell is back, but he didn't post in this game when he was online earlier. Of course, he may simply have not had time to post in all his games, so I'm not going to judge him yet. I eagerly await useful input from him.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Who your scum buddies are. That would be very helpful.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Well, it was worth a try.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Asking him to name his scum buddies. It was a joke, dude.

Anyway, I'm not the one making a case against Lowell. I'd love to see him contribute more, but other than that... he's too skecthy for me to get a good read on him and I'm edgy on account of it being lylo.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

So you're not going to look at him because you can't get a read on him? There's absolutely no curiousity about his alignment, just avoidance issues?
Sheesh, maybe CKD is right about you after all

You realize he was quick-lynching you earlier in the day? That doesn't seem scummy?

That's not what I said. I just don't have anything particularly significant to ask him. Plus, the whole attempt to wagon me is allegedly because of the same flawed reasoning CKD used so... he could be scum, but ignorance of something doesn't make someone scum.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

@Skruffs:

The reason I didn't want to leave a vote unattended on Lowell was because we are at LYLO. I think he's scum, but if people started piling votes on him I wouldn't be able to remove mine, and considering the number of scum left, I didn't want to take the chance.

Dizzy: Who do you think is likely scum? You're not making the case against Lowell (though I think there's decent evidence against CKD and Lowell), so who DO you think is scummy?

I think the people who tried to derail the game with irrelevent conversation and spam are the scummiest ones left. I'd personally like to see Flameaxe looked at, but he doesn't appear to be interested in contributing either.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

But if he was ignorant of the reason you were being voted, and was still voting, doesn't that make him opportunistic?

No. He voted for me because he was ignorant of certain information and this ignorance coupled with the actions of my predecessor lead to his conclusion that I was scum. I can't really hold it against him if he genuinely thought I had a scum role because of faulty information.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Hmm. I appear to have been slightly confusing Lowell and CKD. Dammit.

unvote, vote: Lowell

[DizzyIzzyB13]

It's not scummy to correct an error.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Hah, that's nice work, Lowell. Way to try not to give up your scumbuddies by focusing on a townie the moment you're threatened.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

It really, really does.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

1. Lowell is still scum. The removal of the vote proves nothing except that he's realised a strategy isn't working.

2. Skruffs... Skruffs is mildly suspicious in the sense that he's currently driving the debate, but someone has to so it's not necessarily scum controlling the actions of the town. I'd say he's most likely town given that he seems to be productive and useful. But meh, I'm very often wrong on such things.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

I'm vaguely confused.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

I'm still vaguely in favour of the vig claiming so we can improve our chances of hitting scum today and yell at the vig for being so useless at scum-killing, for the record. I mean, if he/she/it managed to keep that up, don't we lose even if we kill scum today?

[DizzyIzzyB13]

If it was quantifiable, it wouldn't be vague now, would it?

[DizzyIzzyB13]

A vig claim mathematically increases our odds of lynching correctly at a point where we *have* to lynch correctly. Multiple claims give us new information from which we can base lynches. Sure, it'd ensure the vig gets night killed, but hey... a town aligned player will die tonight regardless, and if we lynch scum we can still lose if the Vig manages to continue playing Serial Killer.

I guess my vision of how to approach LYLO is different from yours. In my mind, playing the long game harms our ability to deal with the immediate problem of ensuring there is a tomorrow. It's not good playing the long game when the vig can kill town tonight and lose the game for us.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

So, I guess it's fair to say that a fair bit of my reasoning is that the Vig has done a sucky job as vig so far, and I see no reason why he/she/it would change it's townie killing ways tonight, especially when doing so loses the game for us.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

So, I guess it's fair to say that a fair bit of my reasoning is that the Vig has done a sucky job as vig so far, and I see no reason why he/she/it would change it's townie killing ways tonight, especially when doing so loses the game for us.

here's one. Unless I'm very much mistaken, the vig isn't forced, and he/she doesn't have to kill someone tonight, so should try to stay under-the-radar unless close to a lynch.

How is the vig not killing an improvement over sacrificing the vig to increase chances of lynching scum?

[DizzyIzzyB13]

You assume that letting the vig kill at night from now on is a good thing.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Can we have a votecount and prods for people, please?

[DizzyIzzyB13]

I blame Flameaxe, by the way.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

I blame Flameaxe, by the way.

For...?

The spam that screwed thius game up.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Also, I encourage Flameaxe and CKD to lynch Lowell, so we can get moving again.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

At this point I am also willing to lynch Dizzy, Flameaxe, or cow. Of course, I was willing to lynch them before. But Dizzy seems to be directly calling on her scum buddies for a quick lynch.

No. Just the other people who are active enough to have a vote in play.