Thespival Mafia (Denouement)

[Beep! Beep!]

The fact that 6 out of the 8 remaining players (the exceptions being our two lurkers Iammars and MGIA) have expressed an interest in lynching Beep is somewhat worrying in and of itself.

Actually, a quick check reveals Iammars is the only player to have never make an attack on Beep, though MGIA's was early on and pretty insubstantial. Hm.

Cam

Yes, and you're my third scumbag candidate. How lovely to be a freakin' voteless, role-less townie when two probable townies are freakin' lurking or otherwise non-entities, and I've got active scum geniuses spinning the info? Yeah, great fun, this game, great fun.

Oh please lynch me, that way, you'll see that Iammars and MGIA didn't attack me because unlike the scumbag, their spidey sense tells them I'm town, and they're not berating my play, my scumputer, my scumhunt, my tone...

And maybe after that the rest of the town will come to its senses and lynch PJ, mathcam and Mizzy, your pick.

How many amens to give hasdagas a vig shot?

Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen!
Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen!
Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen!
Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen!
Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen!
Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen! Amen!

[Beep! Beep!]

How about some Hallelujahs?

Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah!

[Beep! Beep!]

Grant the Road Runner his dying wish, hasdagas - take care of PJ tonight!

[Beep! Beep!]

Oh and hasdagas, look back, and count how many Amens and Hallelujahs you've been getting from the various players.

I bet that the scumbags conveniently forgot regularly. Nail them. Nail them good.

[Beep! Beep!]

Beep! Beep!, when you are asking the town to lynch you and you toss out:

Maybe I *am* playing for my win condition, even if I may profess not to. You decide.

That appears to me to be a threat that it is your win condition is to be lynched (i.e. Jester), which I do not believe.

This was IN NO WAY written to imply I was a second Jester, you are sooooo scum, PJ.

And yes, your play is terrible not because you fail to eloquent (or whatever it is you are accusing me of being), but because your methodology is all wrong -- I have pointed out multiple flaws with it --

and yet you still try to stick to it

.

AT LEAST I freakin' try.

Even if you are town, that will not "prove me wrong".

Yes it absolutely will. Because it is ABUNDANTLY CLEAR that I am town, and your refusal to see it is because YOU ARE SCUM. For you to acknowledge that I am town would be against your win condition, which is with the scum.

but you are fast approaching it after having refused to ask to be replaced in the game.

I am still playing to win. I don't need replacing, I don't want replacing. As frustrated as I am, I don't want to be replaced. It would cheapen the victory of seeing you red-faced, when my replacement gets lynched.

My going after you has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that you claim to be vanilla. It has nothing to do with the fact that you are devoid a vote from today.

It makes it bloody easy, doesn't it???

It has everything to do with wolfcrier's reaction to my vote on him on Day Two, and the lack of my being satisfied by any player who has held your role throughout the entire game (that being wolfcrier, JDGA, and now you).

OK then lynch me and be spectacularly wrong.

Anybody can put "effort" into a game regardless of alignment. What is needed is the right sort of effort.

I firmly believe that I have made the right sort of effort. You may disagree with my methods and my conclusions, since one of these conclusions is that you are scum. You pretty much have no choice but to disagree with me and try to discredit my model.

You would do well to read some of the articles which object to "game theory", the use of creating a model from a situation and then using mathematics to determine what one "should do". There is a whole slew of problems in quantifying values ("scum points"), determining who to consider as eligibile for certain values (live players who you think are town, scum, jester, etc), and so forth. Using mathematics as a tool for social situations is an inherently biased tool. The numbers are meaningless unless you add context to them, and context is precisely what your numbers are missing.

I have my theories, you got yours.

[Beep! Beep!]

I believe that FOS's and OGMYOU are totally worthless. Maybe *I* have yet to discover that these analyses don't work, but they have worked for me so far, though admittedly not yet in this game, I have taken its prior successes as encouragement. I actually believe that the reasons behind a vote are nowhere near as important as the vote itself. That's my working assumption. Whether you agree with it or not, whether you think it has value or not, does not make me scum.

[Beep! Beep!]

I fucking knew it...DGB and Beep Beep are the same person...god everything makes so much sense now. No wonder I dont understand anything you are saying....which is funny, because i said the exact samething in another game about DGB today....

I ran across this line again in reading through CKD's posts again. This too seems a little over-the-top. Given that we already know CKD was prone to faking dramatic positions (the self-vote, the imploring pleas, the fake bah post, etc.), it would certainly fit the pattern for CKD to have already known that Beep was DGB and have taken this opportunity to feign a dramatic surprise at this revelation.

I think I'm sold.

Vote: Beep! Beep!

.

Cam

What you say makes no sense, cam.

I was scum in Heroes Smalltown and he was town. You were in that game, too, mathcam. So you ought to know.

We were 3 scum left, and there were 4 townies. CKD really had no chance, my scumbuddy Adele framed him in such a way that we had to either lynch CKD, or lynch Adele. The town was really outscummed, but I could sense his frustration and despair, I actually felt terrible playing with his emotion like that, in a way, for me, it was a bitter victory because I didn't enjoy making CKD miserable. He was right, he was telling the truth, but there we were framing him on purpose.

So in Thespival yesterday, I saw him pull out the same drama. So it got me thinking that maybe both hasdagas (whom I firmly believe to be town) and CKD might be town. And then PJ made this long post, second guessing the mod and all, and it wasn't so clear that CKD was lying scum, this time.

Ah well, CKD and I are now even. I fooled him, and now he fooled me. I shall have no mercy on him should he wish to pull my heartstrings ever again.

mathcam I know you are scum in this game. Just confess. It's not the type of victory that will give you satisfaction. You don't want to make me cry do you?

[Beep! Beep!]

PJ, assume that I am town.

Tomorrow, who are you going to think is scum?

[Beep! Beep!]

excellent question

Really? Seemed to me like it was more designed to satisfy Beep's curiosity than provide useful information we can use.

WRONG.

In fact, this is exactly the kind of question I was referring to when arguing with PJ that not all revealed information is beneficial to the town.

Are you setting up for PJ to refuse to answer my question? If so, why?

For this particular question, it seems like the mafia gains more by knowing the answer to this (for the purposes of making a kill overnight, assuming PJ isn't scum) than the town does (catching a tell in PJ,....

Nope. *IF* PJ is town, and it's a long shot, but anything is possible, my behavior might be blinding the super-intelligent jelly and preventing him from seeing actual scum, like, say, erm, lemme think, mathcam. Or maybe others.

or more likely just being able to point and laugh after the game if he's wrong)

That statement is the mother of all manipulative statements.

Amen hasdagas, Amen.

[Beep! Beep!]

useful reaction

I'm beginning to think that mathcam is more scum than PJ.

Feel free to vig mathcam. Or paint his toenails. He's all yours.

[Beep! Beep!]

and Beep's uncertain-appearance yesterday could be just a distancing last minute effort from her buddy.

Maybe you're unclear on the definition of "distancing."

[Beep! Beep!]

Slowly doing reread. But while I'm at it:

JDGA(town) WAGON
hasdgfas, petroleumjelly, Monkey(town), RossWilliam, farside22

Beep! Beep!(town) WAGON
hasdgfas, Monkey(town), RossWilliam, farside22, Talitha(town), PookyTheMagicalBear

Beep! Beep!, what do you think of this second wagon? The one where every person voting you is not mafia? From my perspective, the following players have voted for you:

1.)

hasdgfas (presumed town)

2.)

Me (I know myself to be town)

3.)

Monkey (town)

4.)

RossWilliam (town)

5.)

Farside22 (town)

6.)

Talitha (town)

7.)

Pooky (Jester, but not mafia)

The most any mafiate has really could have done to you is to FoS you, or to vote you while you were not currently in the process of being bandwagoned (like when CKD voted you and unvoted your twice in a row, seemingly debating whether or not you were the Jester).

I actually just noticed you completely left out this second bandwagon. What (if anything) does it say about your scum scores? There has already been one wagon that has been "proven" (except for hasdgfas) to have been composed

entirely

of non-mafia this game. But by your scores, if anybody from the second wagon was still alive, you would have given them "100 scum points", effectively putting them at the top of your "list".

PJ since I don't know your alignment, you are, to me, the only unknown-alignment player on this wagon, and this increases the likelihood that the scum on that wagon is YOU.

But I'm going to pretend that you're town, and I'll got back and look at that wagon. This was a deadline wagon, mind you, so it's likely that the scum being sure that a townie was going to be lynched anyway, didn't bother compromising themselves on a townie wagon, because there was no need to.

But I'll go back and check more closely. Give me a few minutes.

[Beep! Beep!]

BM: "PJ just gives me uneasy vibes. AlKo is obvscum."
BM: "so jump on the AlKo wagon already."
After I replaced...
BM: "please wagon AlKo already."

When I replaced, my first impression was:
"Seems even more pro-town than Monkey. So I have to wonder why Battle Mage and curiouskarmadog are voting for him, and these two are suspicious for the same reason Mastermind and Sarcastro are voting for Monkey."

Interestingly, CKD and Mos both turned out to be scum.

Holy chose to vote for Monkey instead of voting for me. Like she wanted to be off the wagon on purpose.BM: "PJ just gives me uneasy vibes. AlKo is obvscum."
BM: "so jump on the AlKo wagon already."
After I replaced...
BM: "please wagon AlKo already."

When I replaced, my first impression was:
"Seems even more pro-town than Monkey. So I have to wonder why Battle Mage and curiouskarmadog are voting for him, and these two are suspicious for the same reason Mastermind and Sarcastro are voting for Monkey."

Interestingly, CKD and Mos both turned out to be scum.

Holy chose to vote for Monkey instead of voting for me.

I also wrote: "My wagon is not so big that I think there is a lot of scum on it. This being said, I do believe that Pooky's vote on me IS scummy."

Good grief I must have been psychic on that day.

Now, MeMe quickly unvoted me (and to be perfectly objective, I was way scummier than Monkey, and as a vanilla townie, I was perfectly expendable - heck I was suspected of being Jester!). It's as if MeMe planned on extracting another claim before deadline.

Holy posted this:
"BeepBeep: I was biased by wolfcrier's posts though, so when I read her now, I still consider she's might be jester." And she kept her vote on Monkey.

So if PJ is not scum, all roads lead to MeMe/mathcam - and maybe Holy or BM.

I also wrote: "My wagon is not so big that I think there is a lot of scum on it. This being said, I do believe that Pooky's vote on me IS scummy."

Good grief I must have been psychic on that day.

Now, MeMe quickly unvoted me (and to be perfectly objective, I was way scummier than Monkey, and as a vanilla townie, I was perfectly expendable - heck I was suspected of being Jester!). It's as if MeMe planned on extracting another claim before deadline.

[Beep! Beep!]

MGIA your recent posts are so bad, if I had a vote, I'd be canvassing for your lynch.

After some soul-searching I have come to the conclusion that PJ is town, mathcam is scum, Holy/Mizzy aren't coming up townie enough.

And there's something not quite right with MGIA's actions, and his posts.

[Beep! Beep!]

However, one thing does pique my curiosity: DGB, what games have you been scum with MoS in?

I have a vague recollection of once being bus'ed early, and spectacularly. And another where he was scum, and I was town, and he spent the whole game discrediting me. Here as scum, he's done the opposite. MoS is one of these players that do not leave consistent traces as scum for the rest to interpret. If you've noticed any, I'd LOOOOOOVE to know them.

[Beep! Beep!]

I dunno PJ, I helped lynch IamMars in another game recently for reasons similar, and he was town. He's hard to read, because his schtick is to sit on the fence, remain uncommited, asking a few questions, you know, staying out of things. I'd say he's among the most skilled players at phony participation. If anything, from your description, he sounds a little more aggressive in this game. It's probably wisest to wait for a more readable replacement.

PJ, if you're not scum, I'd have to go with Holy and mathcam. MeMe/mathcam are the type of players that are not expected to make blatant scumtells. However, mathcam's reluctance to see any lynch but me today is very scummy. To me anyway. It's subtle I know, but MeMe/mathcam would only leave subtle clues.

Holy's inconsistency may be related to her not needing to find scum. At first I thought she was town, but then with every post that conviction was eroded bit by bit.

[Beep! Beep!]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 113#950113
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 188#994188
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 963#998963
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 106#999106
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 47#1009047
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 52#1010452
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 54#1011554
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 83#1011583
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 89#1011689
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 41#1019741
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 67#1019767

[Beep! Beep!]

*sigh*

I was going to switch my vote to Iammars, but I have no vote. And MGIA isn't even voting.

*sigh*

*sigh*

*sigh*

*sigh*

I loathe vote-stealing mechanics in games.

[Beep! Beep!]

if y'all wanna lynch me, go ahead. Only reason i'm here is cuz i needed a replacement in the game i'm running. and only reason i'm still here is so thesp doesn't have to find another replacement. i honestly have no interest in the outcome here.

That's kinda dishonest to Thesp and the game he's running and the people that are in it. Do me a favor and vote for Iammars, at least. Or someone scummy. Give it a shot. Make a wild guess.

[Beep! Beep!]

Gabriel Tristan, I see in your sig. Picture???

CONGRATULATIONS GIRL, you're a mother now. You think it's good now, it just keeps getting better.

[Beep! Beep!]

I'd love to help but I ain't got no vote.

[Beep! Beep!]

If I could, I would lynch mathcam, but tragically I cannot.

[Beep! Beep!]

I know you gave it considerable thought, PJ, but you got it wrong.

Well at least I'm just vanilla. I certainly did my best.

[Beep! Beep!]

BB!, please link me to the last three games you have played as town where you were lynched. I will be skimming LO2 very quickly.

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=106967
Most recently. I was Kami of Lunacy in that game.

Start with that one while I find more.

[Beep! Beep!]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2806

That one, but it's old.

[Beep! Beep!]

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3161&start=0

That too.

[Beep! Beep!]

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... start=2150

[Beep! Beep!]

Can't isolate your posts in MTG that I can see. You were Mason in BoI? That makes things harder.

Yes I was, still got myself lynched, haha. Claim to shame.

[Beep! Beep!]

I will kick myself for all eternity after this.

You will because I'm town, but hey, don't kick too hard, at least I'm no power role and no one listens to me anyway.

I was a good sport thought, I tried my best even if I had no vote.

But hey it happens.

[Beep! Beep!]

I came, I replaced, I did my best.

Good luck town, and don't forget to kill mathcam!

Thanks PJ, great game. I like playing with you.

***must get sleep***

[Beep! Beep!]

Okay, vote staying. Would like final commentary from Beep! Beep!

Oh, and in case you're scum, better explain your decision now.

[Beep! Beep!]

*gnashes teeth* There needs to be a yelling emoticon here, or something. Deadline is indeed in about 11 minutes (I tried to give the impression deadline had hit to see if BB! would fess up to anything, of course she did no such thing).

Commentary from Holy if you're still bootin' around?

Right now I am thinking:

Town

hasdgfas

SCUM

Mizzy
MGIA

On the Fence

Holy / mathcam
Iammars

SCUM

BB!

TOWN

Colored lettering mine.

Now I with that PJ had named the players he saw could be scum with Iammars and I sure will miss his analytical mind.

I'm still thinking mathcam is scum.

I propose a mass claim.

[Beep! Beep!]

We killed four scum. I think we can take to the bank that we're after a serial killer.

[Beep! Beep!]

EBWOP

We killed four MAFIA. I think we can take to the bank that we're after a serial killer.

[Beep! Beep!]

Actually, while I agree with a mass claim once Flame has caught up, though I think we'll see nothing but a slew of vanilla claims.

Welcome to the game, Flame, btw.

We do have one role left for sure. I thought it would be you or Holy. If it's not you, then it's Holy. Holy is town.

The SK (I do think that's what we are looking for) is either you, mathcam or Flameaxe.

[Beep! Beep!]

I'm not saying that's the last role. But one that I know exists.

Can you claim?

[Beep! Beep!]

I am vanilla, and I'm surprised that you still think I'm scum. There's actually a pretty hard-to-defend-against case that I'm mafia, what with my staunch support of has and my reluctance to lynch Iammars -- but the SK? I don't see how you can believe that. On another note, notice the lack of self-beratement about being horrifically wrong on at least one account, Beep -- it happens.

I'm a little tied up in RL, but I should be active again pretty soon.

Cam

Wait.., believe what?
Maybe I should re-read all the cases against the mafia by myself, without you re-creating the scene over my head >.>

Holy, where is your claim? I can't find it.

[Beep! Beep!]

MMmmmmm...

Me: vanilla
Holy: vanilla
Mizzy: vanilla
mathcam: vanilla
Flameaxe: cult of couch.

Has everyone double-checked their role PMs?

Flameaxe, can you explain more about your role? Have you stolen anyone's vote today?

[Beep! Beep!]

I loathe vote-stealing roles. I'll take a Jester over a vote-stealer in a game, any time.

[Beep! Beep!]

So, whatever. Another vanilla night, and now a voteless day. What a drag.

This is so boring I want to crawl out of my skin.

[Beep! Beep!]

Knowing Flameaxe, he's going to vote for me out of personal vendetta, so it's pretty much game over for me - in terms of life in the game, and participation.

Just kill mathcam. That's all.

[Beep! Beep!]

Hmm..., that reminds me, our godfather, mith was a mason, there must be another mason, no? Not allowed to reveal I guess.. (at least according the Wiki).

No, it is allowed.

[Beep! Beep!]

We should kill mathcam and Mizzy. But we can only kill one.

I'd say let's go for mathcam.

[Beep! Beep!]

So you disagree that there's likely only one scum left?

Cam

No, we kill you first and possibly win the game, but if you're not scum, we kill Mizzy next, and we still win the game.

[Beep! Beep!]

How exactly did you guys come up with me being scum? Pure lack of evidence?

Everyone knows that's an obvious scumtell.

Cam

I have to agree with that.

I think we have to kill both Mizzy and mathcam by endgame. If we do this, we will win.

[Beep! Beep!]

I want to kill mathcam first.

Who do you want to kill, Mizzy? Where are your suspicions?

[Beep! Beep!]

Holy, since you are mith's Mason, I don't see why Mizzy should suspect you.

[Beep! Beep!]

Incidentally, I know there's a lot of WIFOM here, but wouldn't it be a strange ploy for me as scum to go after the hardest person it is for me to get lynched? I can only get Flameaxe lynched if every non-Flameaxe player with a vote supports me, and even then, I become an almost immediate target for the final day if I'm wrong.

If we discover this, it means you're town. If you have to point it out, it means you're scum.

[Beep! Beep!]

Well mathcam, we know you're not mith's mason.

Who is then?

[Beep! Beep!]

how are you so sure that I'm not a scum mason?

mith voted for a whole bunch of people that I assumed were not his mason. One of the people he voted was you. So you're no mason. You're just scum.

[Beep! Beep!]

Flameaxe, it's in your hands. You have to make up your mind and vote. Read the thread, ask questions. Whatever.

[Beep! Beep!]

I said mathcam was scum.