Realistic Mafia - Game Over

[Hjallti]

I am in a will post content tomorrow

[Hjallti]

Okay I just read through the claims and deads of Primate and Battle Mage. (I think

vote: Battle Mage

is not really necesarry anymore...)

Hard game to read, somehow, and totally different from real mafia, but that is exactly what I hoped for.

So we have another 8 days of daytime ahead, with already 2 lynches and 1 daykill.

Next thing I want to do is to read singled out persons, but I want to ask first at everyone the very question I am asking myself, as it might be an interesting question to start the third period of this first day:

Who needs to get extra attention?
To answer partly myself: I'llo begin with Surye (town angle) and Celebloki, and than decide who's next.

[Hjallti]

I think as well we better go asleep now... we (well I was not really there ) have pretty much made most of the nightkillings of the first night.

vote:End Day

[Hjallti]

But do you really think you're helping the town by taking up a one man, one vote, one bullet stance? I don't.

I think Albert and Surye meant something other. We could just agree that if someone makes the hammer vote rather than use

vote: Dripping

he should use something like

vig: Dripping

after which Surye (rather than town) vigs (rather than lynches) this player. We still need a majority to do this and we avoid to wait for the alignment. Although it is awkward (it is stretching the rules in our favour, so to say), it might work, provided that the mod agrees that this is a tolerable method. (I mean I am agreeing on this as long as the mod not says we shouldn't do this).

If I am wrong Albert or Surye please let me know.

[Hjallti]

Dzjeez, nice FoS to get.

What is scummy? That I got convinced by the arguments? That I posted directy this vote after seeing the first? That I life in a time zone where in this game it could mean I only got the 8th vote or something?

[Hjallti]

I only posted late because I only joined the game at that point. Therefor it is strange to be FoSsed for lurking, as you seem to imply now.
If I had started reading the game form back to forth rather than in normal order i would have vote for a BM lynch before I he was at L+2 but that is because I had to read in a game this size, and started to read at page 1.

Comments on what happened today would I think be boring, as most things have been said or already been cleared up, sometimes contrary to what I thought. For instance BM claims didn't add up with the fact that his supposed victim was killed at another place. his last relevation gives a clue why: he didn't commit the murder but a scumpartner. I can't be positive whether it is Cyberbob but day-ends might show.

I really still have to get into this kind of game, which by replacing I started later than you all.

I do think that there is little use in discussing much further today. Maybe someone could clear up for me one thing.
The option ????? is this some secret abitity the mod already knows and triggers if you ask him, or is an ability you may choose yourself if the mod except your choice to be realistic enough?

Since I am not against discussion and that seems to be armlx problem I will

unvote

as well.

[Hjallti]

ebwop: I should have read back before I asked. ?????-question settled.

[Hjallti]

I was thinking the same as Natirasha, he could have gone back to set up a trap. He might not have realized that doing thus during the day would be noticed.

I wouldn't go in now, and certainly not in the bedroom.

It sure means somehow that skitzer is lying and that is a scumtell.
I want more explications:

vote: skitzer

[Hjallti]

I am not assuming he must have been, I find his comments regarding what he have done unsatisfactory and as I said I want more explanantion. I voted because I normally don't play in the weekend, starting from some 10 hours ago. It is mere coincidence I look back in.

[Hjallti]

unvote: skitzer

[Hjallti]

The day does end tomorrow anyway, so

vote: end day

doesn't make to much difference and speeds up the game.

[Hjallti]

I slept well tonight.

Also, have we decided to day kill someone when they're about to get lynched so that alignment gets revealed rather than lynch and have to wait till the day's end or is that too game breaking for our enjoyment?

I don't think it is decided yet.
With 17 we need 9 to lynch.

I motion to vote upon the following:

When a player is able to hammer (at this point making the 9th vote), rather that hammering (

vote: BM

) he adresses the Surye with the request to kill the player (

Surye, kill BM

)

accept motion

MC (motion count):
accept: 1 Hjallti
reject: 0

[Hjallti]

mod:

I want to know if you find my motion legal.

Ghostwriter: It is no fun to ask a question and reveal the answer so fast... I also found it!

Natirasha, Why did you visit armlx last night?

Surye, If I would do an investigation and send it in, would you see that I am not a cop?

(I am smart enough to ask this question this way regardless if I am cop, I leave it to Surye if he should add 'Supposed that I am not a cop')

[Hjallti]

I would guess ABR belongs to the Corsican syndicate, since he wouldn't gain anything with a selfhammer as last standing Sicilian: the game would be over for him and his partners at that point.

If amrlx is right it seems we have to find three other mafiosi and (at least) one SK from the list DGB, Crub, Awesome Pants, armlx*, Singing Librarian, Sensfan; with added Dasquian and Sykedoc.

*changing the viewpoint

The main advantage about the setup is that we can lynch both BM-partners and ABR-partners today.

mod:

Can we assume at this point

15 alive it takes 8 to lynch

?

[Hjallti]

Awesome, I started with 'If amrlx is right....' to indicate that I was not intending to follow that lead to much, although I agree that Surye is safe, for instance.

But yeah, Awesome, It seems my logic was flawed there a bit, since I made an exception for armlx and myself, and not for the other players.... I meant to say that we seem to need to find some 4 scummies, and if we could reduce it like amrlx did, it would be a great start. Of course reducing it the way ABR did is even better: if you point out that you are scum yourself, a pity a cop died for it.

And in addition to Crub's questions:

Can we know that a cop did only one investigation? How much can he investigate?

I also don't understand that people are insisting that there are only 4 cops or so... It could be that some cops decided to keep quiet a bit. I actually would consider that pro-town: a backup-squad....

I also consider the unforced cop-claims rather bad for town. It doesn't even make sense to claim it is better for town. If town can vig with more than one why can't mafia? Corsican mafia could still choose to kill 3 people during one night, isn't it? I would expect them to do so, if it would wrap the game up... it even could happen during the day...

[Hjallti]

I also don't see any logic in Drippings' thinking. The fact that she didn't believe the mod overrules the excuse she didn't get the '???'-action. I have to admit I had to ask myself what the ??? was about but it is on the first page.

Shooting Dasquian was anyway not the reaction she should have as townie. She could have voted him, unless she believes either Dasquian would reveal some things she doesn't want in the open, or she believes she couldn't convince town to vote him to a lynch.

so I am going to

vote: DrippingGoofball

, until she can convince me that either of the two above could be the case for a townie based on what she knew.

Sidenote to Surye (and others): have you suggestion how I can help town more? I think I get a bad post-count because I seem to be online mostly when others are offline.

mod

(and everyone): Weekend starts here thursday (May 1st is a bank holiday here (in fact even doubled this year))

[Hjallti]

I still think that dayvigging without feedback from at least some townies is not townish, Dripping.

[Hjallti]

armlx, You actually mean you wouldn't consider yourself town without cop-confirmation?

[Hjallti]

I have been prodded and am just posting now therefor.

I will post real content tomorrow. This morning my computerscreen narrowed to a single line of pixels so I have to play from work, and I have no time today to do so.

[Hjallti]

unvote

I think this behaviour which Surye called opportunistic is indeed the way DrippingGoofball played. I still don't think that vigging over voting is town play but I can see Dripping doing such from other games we played.

I was also playing with the corrupt mayor idea.... it would make the game unbalanced between the two scumgroups somehow, but that can be compensated. I don't think it is interesting to follow that trail now however.

I reread keeping an eye on Crub and most comments seem to give a very different angle to the game as what most 'players' had, in a way I don't actually like. He seems not to mingle in the discussions (except for joining NabNab to investigate CB's house). I suggest some of us coulod investigate this. I am prepared to go along, but as I am not cleared I guess I wouldn't be a good candidate.

[Hjallti]

It still seems a game I don't get, partly because I got overwhelmed by how big the game is. I actually don't know what I possible could do to get confirmed, but the worst I could do now is giving up.

I don't see why Natirasha again stated that the cops are confirmed. I do think we have no reason to attack them out of the blue, but in my opinion they still should be on the list of suspicion.

[Hjallti]

I agree we shouldn't discuss 'can cops be scum' all the time, but unless somehow proven otherwise we can not risk to call cops confirmed town. It still seems the lists posted so far are trying to imply this.

[Hjallti]

Okay, I was not really defending because it seems that people are advocating my lynch based on being not confirmed at the moment. Very strange, indeed with possible dayinvestigations and some night investigations (never understood why 5).

It seems very strange to me.

[Hjallti]

I agree we shouldn't discuss 'can cops be scum' all the time, but unless somehow proven otherwise we can not risk to call cops confirmed town. It still seems the lists posted so far are trying to imply this.

Contradiction...

What is contradictorial in saying we shouldn't discuss this

all the time

and noting that some players clearly are trying to make it seem that cop-confirmed means town-confirmed.

It is sad that you want to lynch me for being not confirmed when a lot more people are not confirmed than every list I saw thusfar implies.

[Hjallti]

Which is indeed not contradictorial.

cops can be scum, let's not the issue that cops can't be scum, as we don't know. Do consider however them not town-confirmed. I still don't see a second what could be contradictorial.

You have really no reason what soever to claim cops can't be scum, but you imply that cop-comfirmed means town-confirmed.

The fact that I agree about not wasting time on discussing whether or not they are confirmed is really something different. If we find the third Sicilian and he is not a cop I am willing to believe Corsica hasn't a cop either, but as long that doesn't happen and the scumcops don't proof it thereselfs by mistake, we really should keep the cops as not-confirmed-pro-town. You seem to have a double agenda here: lynching me (you have been on me since I replaced), and scaring of everyone that speaks about a scum-cop. This is not only not protown, it is plainly scummy.

[Hjallti]

??? Dzjeez armlx has no reason to suspect me except that I am not confirmed and none of the cops go out to confirm me, and yet I am at L-2 at this point. I don't understand it.

I am not going to claim fully because it would cost my life, but I have some possible night actions which I used in secret and from which I could deduce eventually that Celebloki was scum and I vigged him as soon as I knew.

[Hjallti]

I don't like to this because my PM clearly implies that doing this reduces me to vanilla. Aparently the 'claim not matter what' goes above 'claim sensible' as town. I always promoted the latter, but armlx is in this game apparently more trustworthy than myself.

It is not pro-town at all to demand a full claim no matter what, but I will be better for town as vanilla than as corpse so I will.

I am a federal cop, not connected or depended of the local mayor. I can perform some night actions but need the help of my authority. I managed to get a device to listen into the house of ABR (sorry for my english). In the beginning of the last night I got the result back from my federal lab connecting ABR, Dasquian and Celebloki. Considering I was at that moment no way sure to survive I decided to vig him immediatly. My authority will deny and stop every connection on my claim, which makes me pretty unconfirmable apart from my vigging last night.

FoS: armlx

[Hjallti]

tunneling this way is a huge scumtell!

[Hjallti]

The reason I stalled on my claim is quiet simple and already explained. The moment I claim (that I have federal (outside) resources to do/help my night actions) it will be denied and more importantly

they

will stop helping me. Due to armlx tunneling I will no longer be able to use my powers other than a vanilla townie. Note that if I had claimed under the pressure yesterday I could have well claimed vanilla, because I wouldn't have had my report back linking ABR to Celebloki.

If I was scum, why didn't I kill noone last day? Dripping could have hammered instead of letting me survive. i could have done what BM, ABR and Dripping did before me, isn't it? I can't see a single reason why a scum wouldn't go for that extra kill.

Since I have no certaintity that armlx and his buddies let me live through the weekend, I will take the time to address some topics without enough backing or urgency but just because it may help town later.

On the Dripping and Natirasha reports, I would guess they didn't investigate but went talking to eachother and showed there mutual badge.
In the townie pm first page there is a seperate night action:

(2) Try to visit a neighbor and strike up a friendship

On the dirty cop issue I want to come back. The reason I do believe like I expressed yesterday we have a dirty cop is that we have to many cops including myself. I couldn't use that argument yesterday anyway. With the number of cops indicated without counting me, and having them with the same powers I could see the game balanced with 3 player scum teams copless, but this is way over it. My other angel gives (as shown) to much extra power to town. Otherwise we are at this point down to finding the last goon! (10-1)

The problems I have with any theory about cops being dirty and number of scum is basically balance: I would expect Corsica-Sicily to be equally strong. This would mean that if there is dirty cop Corsica would have at least a fourth scumbag: either a dirty cop itself or 4th goon to compensate the dirty cop of Sicily. (In the former case Sicily would also have 4 scumbags, or to compensate a dirty mayor (at this moment I don't believe Surye to be scum).)

Ofcourse 3 scum teams of which one is a twoheaded dirtycop team, or even a dirty cop SK, could also be noteworthy.

Are these only rumours or is our mod trying to tell something?

There are more and more rumours there seems to be a third syndicate around the town, but if it's true, we will let you know as soon as possible.

and to answer armlx again:
I don't know what you exactly mean with stalling on a claim, but I don't think that in anyway this ranks higher in the scumtell list as tunneling and hypocrisy.

L-2, claim and or die.

you never meant anything else than claim AND die, did you?

For claiming, halfclaiming, stalling on a claim, it is up to the claimee to decide what to do. Apparently some players think it is a holy rule that you should claim but is not.

[Hjallti]

It was really annoying knowing he was rival scum, but unable to kill him, since it would practically confirm me as such, too. Thankfully, we averted it just in time.

ironically the most annoying thing was the most unrealistic thing: the scum being setup symmetric!