Enigma Mi Game Thread : Game Over

[ooba]

Hi ...

Problem with Yos2 is that he was mafia in one of the games i've completed and so was Beep! Beep! .. Since 'lighting doesn't strike twice' ..

vote : neko2086

[ooba]

EBWOP : Lightning rather ...

[ooba]

Hi ...

Problem with Yos2 is that he was mafia in one of the games i've completed and so was Beep! Beep! .. Since 'lighting doesn't strike twice' ..

vote : neko2086

links to the games so we can have some sort of reference?

Beep! Beep! - Worst Idea Mafia - Ongoing but killed as Scum - The same game Guardian was referring to.

Yos2 - Masons and Mafia - Over.

You'll find both links in my wiki..

[ooba]

That doesn't really explain why you're voting for me, if your vote was meant to be serious.

Nope just a random vote as your post was just above mine ..

[ooba]

On the road out of town, a car accident has claimed the life of Marissa Walch, the Farmer's Daughter. Her car had gone off the road and into a tree. The smell of booze is very strong - she was quite obviously intoxicated when she went off the road. No signs of any other passengers in the car, or signs of help. Was it suicide, an accident, or something more?

nah, I doubt it at the moment. If one of them were mafia, it would be just smarter for him to attack the other if he was mafia as well. If both were mafia, they would both defend themselves in some way. Beep Beep I see is playfully welcoming it. As I see it, Scot just believes it to be a bad idea. As of now though, we are questioning for better methods. Perhaps maybe we can discuss the information we all know are facts;

such as the 3 murders that occured last night.

How do you know its a murder?

[ooba]

Are ooba and Guardian serious in this lightning does not strike twice crap? This is a totally different game. The probability that one gets a scum role is most likely around the same in every game. Someone's role in a previous game has no effect in the role they get in this game.

I can't answer for guardian but i know that probability of any one player being scum is equal in a game and does not depend on previous games - Mutually independent events and all ..

IMHO, scotmany12 is taking things too seriously. The purpose of votes and bandwagons in the early day 1 is mainly to gather information, not to immediately lynch scum. I don't like scotmany12 reaction, he is too worried with the sake of town, and he unnecessarily uses many 'insulting' words ("stupid", "retarded", "bullshit"). It really looks like scum trying to look townish. Like, 'Oh my God, a bandwagon is retarded and stupid, and it doesn't help the town at all. I am town, I want to help the town. No bandwagons, that's bullshit'.

It is a good strategy, scotmany12, but you used it too early.

I have not played with Scot before. Is he like this in all his games? If so, then it's a null tell ..

[ooba]

A question to all players :

We all seem to have a lot of different information which gives us more info about the various parts of the puzzle or mystery surrounding the town. (I gather this from the story in my own role pm)

Do you think a full disclosure is a viable option?

[ooba]

Do you think a full disclosure is a viable option?

Your attempt to distract from the wagon is noted.

Good for you. Your answer - Do you think disclosure is good?

[ooba]

Yes I am yos, I don't know what you are getting at though. How did you figure this out? I am quite confused.

I am Tim Johnson, your son. I have a wierd watcher type role; last night, I had a couple of wierd flavor-based choices to make, one of which was to watch Marissa Walch, a NPC who is also my character's girlfriend. (I'm not going to say what the other choices were, since they relate to the abilities I might have tonight, and I think it's best to not give that away.)

In the process, I got the information that you, scotmany, were Baxter Johnson, that you killed her, and it strongly implied that you were a bad guy. The reason I have some doubts about my sanity was that the mod post was worded a bit vaugely, and also in my PM it strongly implied that I already hated my father, so I was wondering if that might come into effect somehow. But, since the rolename information was correct, I'm going to go on the assumption that the rest of it was correct as well, and that you are probably scum.

vote:scotmany12

Yos , I have a question - Does your role flavor state that Baxter Johnson had a direct hand in killing Marissa Walch? i.e Can some hypothesis like this explain things - 'Baxter Johnson had tapes of Marissa Walch which someone else got their hands on and blackmailed her. So she commits suicide'. So he could have a hand in indirectly killing her and this could just be a red herring ..

Anyway, the flavour about Baxter Johnson you described matches mine somewhat, so my votes stays on scotmany12.

It would help if you could explain the part about Baxter ..

[ooba]

I drive a Saab? Oh come on, I can afford better than that...

Anyways, I have 4 rolenames mentioned in my pm, one is Yos. Two others seem irrelevant at this point, but there is one name that might help us. I don't think it will help us with the situation with me and yos, but I think it might lead to something. Should I reveal this?

I'm a fan of revealing info and unraveling the mystery !!

Also , what does your flavor say about your son?

[ooba]

Ok, I don't know how much help this is going to be, but I'm going to reveal one of the names in my role pm. I know who Jake Riddles is. He was the person that I hired to edit the video cameras, so that was why he was in town.

So you're connected to two of the three dead people .. Interesting !!

Anyway, the flavour about Baxter Johnson you described matches mine somewhat, so my votes stays on scotmany12.

I would like undo to comment about what he knows about Baxter Johnson ..

[ooba]

I think it would be better for the town to let out the names. There are some connections, right? So why couldn't there be more? Just because the mod said it wasn't likely to help us doesn't mean it can.

This is something i support too. Having a player die in the night means we lose out on some useful flavor information.

eg: If Yos2 had not said anything today and had been killed tonight, we would not have had this information

[ooba]

Yes I am yos, I don't know what you are getting at though. How did you figure this out? I am quite confused.

I am Tim Johnson, your son. I have a wierd watcher type role; last night, I had a couple of wierd flavor-based choices to make, one of which was to watch Marissa Walch, a NPC who is also my character's girlfriend. (I'm not going to say what the other choices were, since they relate to the abilities I might have tonight, and I think it's best to not give that away.)

In the process, I got the information that you, scotmany, were Baxter Johnson, that you killed her, and it strongly implied that you were a bad guy. The reason I have some doubts about my sanity was that the mod post was worded a bit vaugely, and also in my PM it strongly implied that I already hated my father, so I was wondering if that might come into effect somehow. But, since the rolename information was correct, I'm going to go on the assumption that the rest of it was correct as well, and that you are probably scum.

vote:scotmany12

I am not even sure what you claimed. A death of an NPC is in no way indication of mafia. When I first began reading my PM (flavor) I thought I had a mafia role because the dude sounded like an ass, but at the end it turns out that I was a "townie" like everyone else.

I have commented on why I dont think we should use flavor to guess alignment (which included your claim). My flavor would indicate that someone had reason to kill Marissa (my daughter).

At any rate, what exactly did you "watch" last night Yos?

Did you know about Tim Johnson and your daughter? If yes, did you approve of it?

And i do not really support the flavor won't tell us about the alignment part. There might be a lot of red herrings. But our objective is to root out the 'evil' guys. And you really can't say that someone who murdered someone else is not evil ...

Right now a few questions and answers :

i) Did Baxter Johnson really kill Marissa Walch?
Yes, According to Tim Johnson (Yos2) who

I saw him kill Marissa.

ii)Can we believe Tim?
I do not know about the investigation results but the fact the Yos knew Scotmany was Baxter Johnson counts for something.

iii)Is this a big red herring?
I've given this thought and i think it might be. Skruffs had provided yos with both scotmany's name and a very damaging accusation against his character. Yos , you said his role PM did not go into much detail but would these hypotheses fit:

'Someone who dresses up like Baxter Johnson murders Marissa Walch and you saw it happen and believe it was your father who did it.'

Maybe the saab car had something to do with it. 'You saw your father's car ram into her car driving it off the road and into a tree and believed it was your father who killed her'

[ooba]

And i do not really support the flavor won't tell us about the alignment part. There might be a lot of red herrings. But our objective is to root out the 'evil' guys. And you really can't say that someone who murdered someone else is not evil ...

[ooba]

Yos , you said his role PM did not go into much detail but would these hypotheses fit:

'Someone who dresses up like Baxter Johnson murders Marissa Walch and you saw it happen and believe it was your father who did it.'

Uhhh...I don't know.

I suppose there's nothing in the role PM that specifically rules that out

, but I'm not sure how a role like that would work exactally; some kind of mafia framer that frames rolenames instead of players? Dosn't seem to be very likely to me, although this game is quite wierd.

Maybe the saab car had something to do with it. 'You saw your father's car ram into her car driving it off the road and into a tree and believed it was your father who killed her'

No, the car was mentioned in my role PM, not in the investigative results. If you care, it was mentioned because

I knew that the auto mechanic who was working on my father's Saab was crooked

(probably just irrelevent flavor); I can share the rolename if you want, although again I'm not sure if it's a role in the game or another NPC. In any case, it dosn't have anything to do with the murder of Marissa.

I still think yos's results are part of a bigger puzzle. Scot looks like a red herring here. Here's a possibility:

The mafia , whoever they are, bribe the crooked auto mechanic (or he might be scum himself) to get Baxter Johnson's car and drive Marissa off the road.

So when Yos (Tim Johnson) follows Marissa and sees her car pushed off the road by his father's car , he incorrectly assumes his father did it (And thats what came back in his investigation PM).

And i would also like each and every player to comment on the Yos results/scot issue and where they stand on it and what they think is possible ..

[ooba]

Curiosity -- how did Scot kill melissa?

I don't know, exactally

. While my role PM was extremly long and flavorfull and went into a lot of detail, the PM I got in response to my night choice was much shorter and didn't have much detail.

Hm. In Skruffs's opening post, it says this. O.O

unvote

.

How did your dad kill her, again, yos?

Huh, you're right, I had completly missed that mod post somehow. That's interesting, because

I specifically saw Scot strike her on the head

.

Yos, which is it?

I saw him assault her, saw him strike her on the head, and saw her collapse.

I don't know exactally how he killed her, though.

Does it also mention somewhere else that he

Kills

her specifically though? Not your characters thoughts on the same but as an actual fact because the thing you've mentioned looks more and more like a red herring:

They have a quarrel - He hits her on the head - Panics and drives away.
She's conscious sometime later but on trying to drive back to the city - The leaked a/c blows up or something .. and she loses control and smashes into a tree ->

Accident

They have a quarrel - He hits her on the head - Panics and drives away. She's wakes up to find familiar faces staring down on her but little does she know that they are the eveil scum. They kill her and make her death look like an accident. ->

Murder (but not by scot)

The

problem

with both these scenarios however is that Scot denies any knowledge of striking her on the head ...

[ooba]

Meta on Mike: Read Worse Idea Mafia please. You can read the whole game in 3 minutes. He basically lurked his way to victory. Now, I'm not complaining, because he was, after all, my scumbuddy.

Therefore I'm particularly well placed to notice his lurkstrategy.

vote: Mike O'Malley

- I'm on to you, Mike.

I was in this game and i can vouch for this ..

I believe Yos2 and i'm willing to give scot the benefit of the doubt here ..

I'd also like to see mike contribute more ..

Vote : Mike O'Maley

[ooba]

who is David Alderton?

Not me ...

[ooba]

no im not a cop, i was snooping through his mail and hes getting drugs from mexico and cuba, thats all it tells me it doesnt say which player is him, i figured id ask and someone would slip up and say yea im david.

Even if this did out scum , why didn't you wait until everyone replied before outing this info ??

And if he is scum and it is mentioned in his role pm , do you think he'll say 'Yup its me' ??

[ooba]

Ok looks like i've missed quite a bit of text in the last 2 pages .. Will catch up and ...

Mod : Can you replace Mike O maley?

He is not playing the game ..

[ooba]

I have a wierd watcher type role; last night, I had a couple of wierd flavor-based choices to make, one of which was to watch Marissa Walch, a NPC who is also my character's girlfriend.

Am i correct in understanding that you chose to watch Marissa Walch out of a number of other choices presented to you? If so , could you humor me and tell me the number of night choices you had yesterday ? Just the number will do ..

And i've already said this before but i think undo should tell us about whatever info he may have on Baxter Johnson ..

[ooba]

I am not sure what these questions are asking? If you are asking if there are purely flavor-based night actions/private messages/etc, then I am afraid I can not confirm an answer to that one way or another.

If that doesn't answer any questions to the satisfaction of the askers, please rephrase those questions intelligibly.

I do not think this should be answered. Takes the fun out of the game.. IMO this is akin to asking "Hey Mod , Is Yos investigation result true or is it possible it can be a red herring?" - which is something we should be trying to discuss and arrive at an conclusion

I think Yosarian2 may be okay. The way he revealed his role in pieces like that caused me to believe he was lying. I will give the benefit of the doubt for now.

Since Scotmany is a Killer he must not be pro-town so unvote: vote: Scotmany12

By the way , this day isn't Yos v/s Scot by the way. Any inputs of whether it could be a red herring - about the other claims you've heard? Any suspicious play you've spotted in your re-read?

I'd like mike,rosso and goat to give us their views on the game as soon as they've done with the re-read as they haven't posted much at all ..

[ooba]

...and discussing lurkers too, which I admit I have been. This game is just hard to get a read on. We need info to get something started and right now most everybody is guessing.

Uhm...there's plenty of info.

Vote: Greasy

And you choose not to comment on most of it ..

[ooba]

Apparently we have a deadline in 6 days from now.

In order to prevent a suboptimal lynch:

Mike O and Greasy are both distractions from scot, the superior wagon.

Re-read yos's and my posts for more info, especially the portions in large text

. I would in fact suggest reading the portions in large text several times, to better allow them to sink in.

I did not know a deadline was this close.

Mod :

Could you update the title so that the deadline is displayed?

I shall re-read this game today and get back to you with my thoughts ..

[ooba]

Golden promise number one: I will read and post before the weekend is done.

Welcome to the game Justin !!

vote : scotmany

Our best candidate for today and a wealth of information to go on for tomorrow ...

[ooba]

Yos what do you think about Beep! Beep!'s case on Mike?
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &start=422

I feel that, because most of everything we've gone on this first day has been based on flavor, but since yos had a choice that pointed out scotmany as bad, which is solid evidence, it makes good sense to vote: scotmany12

Vote: Mike O' Malley. I feel it is more solid, because the yosarian2 investigation could be still partially flavor, kind of. Also, we're not even completely sure Yosarian was telling the truth, therefore, it seems better to lynch Mike O' for a point that was posted in the thread.

So how does solid evidence become partially flavor in the space of one page?

This applies to all players voting mike :
And so flameaxe didn't pay much attention to his games as mike and lurked away to hell. And he lied about it - is that really greater than an investigation result?

[ooba]

Both are solid evidence, true, but yos's is based on a night choice, and mike o's case is clearly seen in the thread.

He's finished one game so far with that being Worse Idea mafia - if you check that game out - you'll see that he posts "I didnt have access this weekend" on march 2nd while he posts as flameaxe as lot on feb 29 , march 1st. So this is clearly a lurking account for him. (P.S He was mafia in that game - doesn't help my case - just stating it)

So with mike being a lurking account - i'd really only see that lie as a null tell ..

[ooba]

What is the purpose of a lurking account then?

Lurk and lie every game. Just be a disruptive force while adding nothing to the town.

I think that we just can't quite be sure about a claim, but we can easily see scum tells in a thread...

I think we can be sure of the claim. Why? Because Yos knew Scot's role name.. The investigative result may or may not be a red herring but the way the alternate wagon has grown on mike, i'm seeing even greater chances of scot being scum ..

[ooba]

The Jester (1) - (undo)
Undo (1) - (Imat)
curiouskarmadog (1) - (Greasy Spot)


Undo,Imat,GreasySpot - these votes will only lead to a No Lynch as i do not think you can convince the majority to shift theirs in the limited time we have.