California Trilogy - Going to San Francisco (Game Over!)

[Niv]

/Dance dance revolution

[Niv]

Dot forget your theasaurouse

[Niv]

Please see the Post Content section of the rules regarding quoting the Mod and asking questions of the Mod. - Mod

[Niv]

Hello everyone.

OMG I Suck

Vote Niv to remove this mispelling nusance form the gmae.

did you know i can't spell, FL is on the wringt track. Kill me now.

/sarcasim, please dont kill me.

Vote Niv

[Niv]

Wait, Better pln, UnVote Niv, Vote FL beacuse he lik pointing out how bad my spelling is.

UnVote Niv, Vote FL

[Niv]

UnVote.

[Niv]

Presumably, we will be lynching someone present...So Gorrad will have to wait until tonight...uhm...Tomorrow, that is.

Well i'm going to vote for MBL for lurking, he has only posted once, and all it was was a lone vote, possibly random.

unvote vote MBL

Um, yah, what the hell are you doing here. it makes little to no sence to be lurker hunting right now. infact i don't fnind it to make any sence at all. please dude, save this till at least day 2. please.

Also, just got back from bruce springsteen, man it was awsome, i seriousally reccomend you all check out his latest CD (magic) if you get the chance.

Also, Just should probally state this. i read over concordent and dislike it. will not be list using unless absol. nessarry. we can get a lynch by deadline, were not 3 toed sloths here

Vote X

[Niv]

I don't like lurkers, and I generally find they are scum so lynching them is good play, imo...

You really think it is possible to call someone a lurker on page 4. wow

[Niv]

Looks like i'm todays lynch...Oh well, atleast i'll prove Gorrad wrong

I am truly interested in how you attempt to make yourself look better with posting like this? would it be at all possible to enlighten me

[Niv]

Vote: Gaspar

, Niv, RogueBen, PookyTheMagicalBear, Xtoxm, Machiavellian-Mafia, {(All players not listed)}, SensFan, No Lynch, Thesp

Kinda curios why you find myself the second most scum in the game.

I don't really agree with Sens' logic regarding no lynch. Yourself is the only 100% confirmed person in this game.

Not to mention that you should have at least some trust in yourself to be helpful to the town. If not, what are you even doing playing? (Unless, of course, you're scum)

I'll repeat myself, I feel strongly that ANY lynch is better than No Lynch.


Also, I don't fully understand the Condorcet method...

I firmly agree with everything stated n this post

Also, just cause i decided it makes sence

Also, i belive that X is at minus 2 right now. anything to say to actually defend yourself scum?

Vote X, {Everyone else}, No Lynch

@ gaspar, if you didn't like springseens old stuff there is a good chance you wont like this stuff. however, i still sudgest you look at it.

Votes/Unvotes not appearing at the bottom of the post are not counted. Tags removed. - Mod

[Niv]

Also, just cause i decided it makes sence

Also, i belive that X is at minus 2 right now. anything to say to actually defend yourself scum?

reading my post, please swap these two lines

[Niv]

There are probably a few scum on my wagon...

What a redundant statement. no one on day one will ever be lynched without "a few scum" on their wagon

How have I been scummy? People seem to be making poor excuses to try and get me lycnhed.

All of your content has so far been as follows:
random stage
Voting a "missing person"
"Lurker" hunting
one post disscussing concordent
and giving up

Mabye if you tried doing sometyhing heplpful, like scumhunting (keeping in mind it's too early for lurkers) , that'd be dandy.

[Niv]

Why is it too early for lurkers? Are your scumbuddy's lurking?

Really bad posting right here.

To adress your question why it is too early for lurkers: Players who don't post enough will be replaced in this game. The only lurking strategy that might work would be posting regulary without posting content. That behaviour would actually be scummy. However, a single post is not enough to state that someone is actually posting regulary without posting content, because a vote without further remarks is to be expected during the early stages of the game.

MS sums up my oponions on this much better than I could hve evr hoped to artiuculate

Niv #89 (His case on Xtoxm (Not unaccuracy, but wording))
Niv #137 - Top Part

For my 89, are you talking about my spelling/typing. if so that is a terrible reason to find me scummy

Providing a defense against what, exactly?

there are multiple cases against you all saying the same thing, find one and respond.

EBWOP: "every post you have made" means "every post you have made

in this game

"...just so you don't get the wrong idea

Ok this should really be obvious, why did you post this?

Also, the link forming beween Pooky and X really irkes me the rong way. i could deffinatallly see a scum link there

[Niv]

Ok Niv.

Tell me in 200 words or less why you believe I am scum with Xtoxm.

Also explain what you believe the protown reaction to the events so far today are.

Explain to me also why you believe Xtox is scum.

Not certain here, i just feel that this whole iscussion culd be staged, which would lead to the conclusion that there is a lik between the tw of you.

also, I've explined my posion on X previousally here.

There are probably a few scum on my wagon...

What a redundant statement. no one on day one will ever be lynched without "a few scum" on their wagon

How have I been scummy? People seem to be making poor excuses to try and get me lycnhed.

All of your content has so far been as follows:
random stage
Voting a "missing person"
"Lurker" hunting
one post disscussing concordent
and giving up

Mabye if you tried doing sometyhing heplpful, like scumhunting (keeping in mind it's too early for lurkers) , that'd be dandy.

Sldo dont understand wht you are asking in your secon question.

[Niv]

One)Why would scum decide to stage something like this?>

Two)What do you think a protown player in my position should do instead of what I have done? Since you feel that I am forming a scum link with him, what do you suppose a protown player would've done instead? Argue for why this move is superior to the move I have chosen.

3) How do you expect X to scumhunt? Do you believe he is not making a geniune effort? if so what evidence leads you to conclude this?

1: i can't tell you, but this whole senario seams staged to me. i could be just a distraction tactic. but I couldn't tell you why.

2: possibly do something that looks more genuine, as, yes i understand thatyou are trying to get something out of X, but again it feels staged.

3: I don't care how X scumhunts, as long it finds scum more often than throwing darts at a dart board. he is not making a geuine effort beacuse he gave up this early at the time he was pushed to -2. and right now it dosent even look like he is paying attention to what people are doiung. he really dosent look like he is trying.

Also at Pooky: could you please link to other games wher you have used this style of questoning, as i even think your questions to me are staged, and I know we are not partners. it may just be the way you ask questions.

[Niv]

One) So you think it looks staged, but you can fthink of no reason why we would stage it?

Two) Do you think i geniunely dont care why he has done what he has done" I'm not quite sure why you think i am being disingenious.

Three) Again you bring up this geniune thing, how do you know he is being disingenious? What causes you to believe this? Do you think that if he were town and fustrated at being wagoned he would not act out the way he has?

I'm talking about you. Every question feels ver articulated and forced.

Pooky, since you seem to e consistantally, could you answer this: when you play mafia, and you ask questons, do you always ask them in this over articulated manner, beacuse its that whih is making me feel odd

[Niv]

Also, since i have not played with many people here, i figure this will help:

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=104799 In progrss

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=102909Only game i was ever some sort of scum, (unknowing traitor)

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=91371

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=95107

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=93461

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=82737

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=80123 Newb Game

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=77513 Newb game

[Niv]

@vollkan: Niv's placement on my condorcet is in order to guarantee a condorcet winner. As you will have noticed, the condorcet winner in the vote counts has changed from noone to niv after my vote. However, I don't believe he is scum, and it is unlikely that I will vote for him today.

Much as I support the lynch of anyplayer over no player, but this sounds weird. i read this as "I see niv as town, But lets support his lynch anyway. although I'll not vote really."

Feils really wierd to Me.

FoS Micheal

Currently, I'm willing to support the lynches of

• Faerielord, for following the town's general opinion on both Xtoxm and Niv. Especially his reply to the question "do you believe Xtoxm and Niv are scum" struck me as bad. In mafia, you should try to lynch those people you believe are scum, not those that are playing badly, unless there is no other option.
• SensFan, Xtoxm is his top suspicion and receives a vote without ever being discussed; Virtually the only thing he discusses is placing No Lynch before or after oneself in a condorcet list.
• MBL, for posting relatively little content when he is posting regulary. Virtually all he has done this game is posting a list of posts he found scummy, without any explanation why.
• BBMars, for the same reasons as MBL.

Thesp deserves a mention because the reasons for his lack of posting (though he did stay exactly within the requirements of the game) could be faked. But that's more a concern for when his posting doesn't improve at all during the next couple of weeks.

Unvote

Vote:

Niv,

FaerieLord

, Sensfan, MisterBuddyLee, BBMars, Machiavellian-Mafia, Xtoxm, Thesp, Rogueben, Gaspar, vollkan, NabakovNabakov, PookyTheMagicalBear, {curiouskarmadog, Gorrad, IH, Nibbler Twins, OhGodMyLife, Sarcastro}, Mr. Grey, No Lynch, MichelSableheart

You are really bugging me agfain. you are not wiing to support my lynch, but you are willing to lynch me. that is really rubbying me odd.

Also, over the last fiew pages, i'm starting to get a real dislike of Pooky, as his playstyle this game annoys me. (yes I understand probally anny many of you and it seams to be really masking a lack of contributions.

Altogh I am still Finding X Verry Scummy.pooky has gone up in my scum list. also with FL i kinda see what some others are saying, but i just dont find it as daming, but it is not that great

UnVote,
Vote X

, Pooky, Michel, FL, {Everyone else} Niv, No Lynch

[Niv]

@ pooky, 1 I find you annoying and want you dad. 2 i don't seam to see you as contributing to the game

Pooky: whaty have yo contributed in your oponion to the game

[Niv]

Responses in underline italics

Well you know who i suspect, you know who i expect to be town, you know what I want to know from people?

this isn't a question, unless i am misreasing it

Is my reasoning behind my suspicions/thoughts relevant?

A post without logic is not helpful in the least. you can say whatever you want, and never have to back up your oponions with analysis the way you are posting. you are putting effort into formating your questions, why not put effort into scum unting. or explain to me how what you are doing is scum hunting, cause i'm not seeing it.

If so, why?

see above

Do you think I am doing this with no reasoning?

I would hope you have reasoning behind your suspicions, but without your reasoning in the public, i am not sure if you are actually suspicous of these people, or throwing darts

What would the purpose of that be?

Could be a scum tactic at active lurking

For you to really believe that I have absolutely no reason and am just shooting my mouth off, I'd have to be such a horrible player that I could feel nothing about the game.

Do you believe that to be true?

i doubt it, but untill you give me reason to belive better, anyhting is possible

Who exactly do you want to kill, the people who are scum or the people who are annoying or the people who are noncontributive to the game?

the scum. you are anoying and IMO non contributive, therefore making you scum, and if i can kill anoying scum before regular scum, thats icing on the cake.

What are your priorities in this game Niv? do you want to catch scum? yes, my priority is catching scum.

Seriously guys. Condorcet honestly is so easily manipulated.

Say Niv, currently, you are the condorcet lynch. I believe you are town, but have you at the top of my list to guarantee that there will be a lynch at deadline. I'm not sure about MM, and would rather see him lynched then you. If I place MM above you, MM will beat everyone except me. You are listing me above MM. So if you place MM in your list above me, MM will beat me, and with my vote change, would beat everyone. So you place MM above me, I place MM above you, MM gets condorcet lynched. Deal?

And this is why we should be finding a real lynch, 2 weeks is long enugh for that, we shouldn't beresorting to a concordant system that can be manipuated like this. but if it gets the lynch to someone not me, who has a higher likleyhood of being scum than I do, i will gladly use it. still would love a normal lynch.

UnVote,
Vote

Mich-Mafia,

X

, Pooky, FL, {Everyone else}, Niv, No Lynch

[Niv]

Both Niv and MSH are looking very duplicitious for their attitudes on Condorcet. MSH seems almost obsessed with ensuring that there is always a Condorcet winner, even to the point that he is willing to crown a player he doesn't even think is scum, but he insists on seeing a more convincing case on MM before he'll place a standard vote. Niv, on the other hand, makes a post about how much he would love a standard lynch followed by a condorcet where

he doesn't even vote his top suspect

.

@MSH: Who would you rather lynch, Niv or MM?

@Niv: Who would you rather lynch, MM or Xtoxm?

I'm not sure how this all reflects on allignment, but it certainly indicates that people really have to get their priorities in order when in comes to votes.

XtoXm, but this issue here is that I know that I am town, and since that I was the concordent winner, there needed to be a diffrent concordant winner. and much as we should really have a real lynch, if i need to use the concordant system i will

[Niv]

Claim Robin Williams

2 times in the game i can PM the mod a name. and using my show biz connections, i can find out a little something about them. i don't know what yet. but i figure there is a chance it may be useful.

Also, Mich - mafia, sorry i can't pose a case on you. just knmowing that you have a greater likleyhood of being scum than I do.

[Niv]

ok, so i just worked about 12 hours today, so not much more than a result.

I targeted one pooky the magical bear last night, and well, was for some reason redirected to rougeben. never the less, using my "show biz" connections, and aparentally my knowlede of people in san fansisco, i found out rougeben's role name. although, will only claim his name if he/the town gives concent, as i don't want to hinder someones position (i don't know what a role name could do, but you never know)

[Niv]

the third letter of Rougeben's role name is an R

[Niv]

Hey pooky:

Question for you:

What do you feel you hve contirbted to the game, and why?

[Niv]

I have contributed my thoughts.

I've done so because I want to kill scum.

Really pooky, All I've seen you do is ask questions and post lists of players with none of your own logic what so ever. I would like to know how you believe you have contributed your thoughts and how you have contributed to the town.

[Niv]

My lists are how I rank people who I believe I have a feel for in this game.

It puts them in the group I believe them likely to be in.

Those are my thoughts on who is scum in this game, who is town in this game, and who I am unsure on.

The list is created from player actions, player interactions, my own gut feelings, and

divine inspiration

.

I'm not quite sure why you believe thought needs logic to be considered "thought".

I believe my thoughts certainly have been of a contributive nature to this town.

my main problem is the questioning. It makes it look as though you are contributing, but in reality, it appears to me that all you have done this game is post questions, and post suspicions. what i see that as is an excellent way for scum to post allot, while never posting any original thought. it lets you ride bandwagons, and not truly contribute, while never doing anything decidedly scummy. your basically letting everyone else do the work.

Also, OGML setup speculation is quite dangerous in the long run. and it adds him to my list

Vote Pooky

, Xtoxm, BBMars, OGML, Everyone else, Niv, No Lynch

[Niv]

Good job ignoring MichelSableheart.

Really? if i don't feel the need to comment on someone, or to put him on my list right now, doesn't that just mean I'm reading him as town right now?

Niv, how on Earth is the setup speculation I've done relating to the situation I was thrust into worse than the setup speculation being undertaken by MBL and earlier Xtoxm where they are asserting that there must be scum in these missing groups. Do you not see the inherent problem in pushing this theory forward, in that when one of myself and CKD dies they'll have given themselves the basis to mislynch the other on nothing besides trying to outguess the mod?

And you ignore the post by Gaspar where he engages in the same kind of speculation about what could or could not be going on with the missing players that was made at literally the exact same time as mine. Nice.

Vote: MBL

, Xtoxm, Niv, {Others}, CKD, No Lynch, OhGodMyLife

Xtoxm is allreddy on my list, and I must have missed the other two.

but in reality, it appears to me that all you have done this game is post questions, and post suspicions.

Not sure why this is an issue. Elaborate?

I dn't see him as contributing, I see him as posting questions, and little useful origional thought. his suspicion list is little more than names, and again, it easly maskes his lack of contribution.

I disagree with your conclusions on me, CKD.

unvote vote BBMars

Well, how does this help?

Also, major FOS to Gaspar for zeroing in (incorrectly) on my bait (setup speculation about the basement) and ignoring the crux of my point which is that OGML has played scummily.

Well, What the hell is this? you are making me lost whith this disying logic.....

[Niv]

my main problem is the questioning. It makes it look as though you are contributing, but in reality, it appears to me that all you have done this game is post questions, and post suspicions. what i see that as is an excellent way for scum to post allot, while never posting any original thought. it lets you ride bandwagons, and not truly contribute, while never doing anything decidedly scummy. your basically letting everyone else do the work.

I've seen Pooky play in a similar fashion as town. It is an awful way to play the game, for exactly the reasons you identify, but he seems to think it acceptable.

does having see him play this way as town in the past make him town? I do not see how having played like this before as town makes him any more likley town, or the playstyle any less scummy.

[Niv]

Niv, why did you target Pooky..any thoughts why your investigation was redirected?

I targeted pooky beacuse he is one of the players that I find very suspicious, but not many others do so. as for the redirection, i think the most likey reason would be beacuse i was the only claimed targeting role, and that there was no reason for the scum to not use their ability at all. and it causes confusion, which last time i checked helps the mafia.

[Niv]

If I'm wrong, lynch me tomorrow. And I'm not wrong.

...you know, thats a really dumb thing to say no matter what you're alignment is.

QFT

ckd, what is your opinion on OGML?

I am leaning town. LIke I said when i first came into the game today, he had plenty of time to hammer me with Gorrad and he did not take it...he could have easily hammered me with his first couple posts and fall back on (today) that Gorrad was being scummy because he felt Gorrad had inside information (at least one scum in each group)...hell, he could have hammered me and spun today that in retrospect, gorrad's push for my lynch was scummy. This would have given him another target today that he could have organized with his scum buddies last night. Now I think about it, he could have organized an attack on me today if he was scum pretty easily. Once he got into the thread today and saw there was no way he could reference or quote the basement, he could have lied about how events went down in the basement, or at least slanted the truth somewhat.

He also didnt immediately hammer Gorrad when he had the shot either, and gave him time to address my post.

I understand it could have been a ruse to earn some town creds, but the way that it went down yesterday makes me think otherwise.

Reading this, it almose makes me feel thay you are scum for some strange eason, bt i just cant put my finger on it. it may be nothing. but it does irk me a little bit the wrong way

Niv - You are only listed above {People} because of your last line of Post 451 (which is what put you on my last condorcet) and for your response to my complaint about that, in Post 479 where you acknowledge that you "must have missed the other two" but do nothing to change your condorcet to reflect that.

The first issue is a theroy issue, the second is that I jut have not got around to changing my concordent, Which i am doing now. also, Thinking about it, it's probally no voteworthy in this senario. or atleast when this is the only issue i see agains you.

Also, moving BB up in my concordent for lynch assurance.

UnVote, Vote

BBMars,

Pooky

, Xtoxm, Everyone else, Niv, No Lynch

[Niv]

does having see him play this way as town in the past make him town? I do not see how having played like this before as town makes him any more likley town,

or the playstyle any less scummy.

What do you mean by scummy? If it's to mean "something more likely to be done by town", which is the most sensible meaning, your assertion is absurd here.

What do you mean by "what do you mean by scummy" when the next thing you say is "something more likely to be done by town".

I think you just made a grammar error, but i'd like some clarification here

[Niv]

Just wanted to be certain what the question was

does having see him play this way as town in the past make him town? I do not see how having played like this before as town makes him any more likley town,

or the playstyle any less scummy.

What do you mean by scummy? If it's to mean "something more likely to be done by

scum

", which is the most sensible meaning, your assertion is absurd here.

What I am saying is that if he has played like this as town before, it makes the playstyle no less scummy, and I will be treating it as such. If pooky wants to start contributing for real, that'd be nice, but for now he is not helping at all imo.

[Niv]

niv, no comment on my last post?

well, I could have sworn i respondd to that, I should really start rereadin my posts, i must have deleated it. sorry

Reading this, it almose makes me feel thay you are scum for some strange eason, bt i just cant put my finger on it. it may be nothing. but it does irk me a little bit the wrong way

How easy is it to say something feels scummy about a post without any reason why? What is wrong with the post? What does my post make you think that I am implying that could possibly be scummy?

It as just a bad feeling coming from the way you talked about what happened in the basement. i don't know why, it just bugged me when i read it, and still does, but i just can't figure outwhy. it's just an odd gut situation.

[Niv]

And it's never too late to dig yourself out of a hole with the truth, unless you've been investigated as scum. I'm pretty sure that hasn't happened yet. So get to work helping us track down your fellow dirtbags! We expect no less from you than the rout that was Mountainous Multiball.

This quote is so good i made it my sig.

Am I allowed to point out that BBMars has not received a single strike yet, but hasn't posted any game related post day 2? BBMars is, IMO, the perfect example of an active lurker: someone who posts the bare minimum not to be replaced, yet does not post any content whatsoever. With his play, he isn't going to be replaced by a more active player, and I don't want to allow him to reach the middle game without saying anything whatsoever.

I would also like you to add Pooky to the list of active lurkers. he as done nothing useful at all this game. although I totally agree with you an BB, who is probally going to be todays lynch.

It as just a bad feeling coming from the way you talked about what happened in the basement. i don't know why, it just bugged me when i read it, and still does, but i just can't figure outwhy. it's just an odd gut situation.

That means you should look for reasons!! Don't let a gut feeling linger and influence you. If you have a gut feeling, look back and try and determine why

Is this why I'm so bad at this Game? /joke
Actually, I'm hopeing to find the time to reread the game and prepare somesort of post for the begining of day three, I'm going to tryand substanciate some of my gut feelings into proper form then.

BBMars wagon is dead.

unvote vote OGML

.

What a terrible post.

Go on, MBL, tell me again how you're not gonna try to lynch CKD after I turn out to be innocent.

I'm sorry, OGML, I didn't mean to scumhunt.

Won't happen again.

Really dislike OMGL here. MBL hits the nail right on the head with his responce.

Because deadline is less than 2 days, and all round activity in this game isn't brilliant, which is required for quickly turning around lynches.

Yet your trying to turn around a lynch? how do you think that that will happen

Adding OMGL to my concordent again b/c of that post directed at MBL

UnVote

,

Vote

BBMars,

Pooky

, Xtoxm, OMGL, Everyone else, Niv, No Lynch

[Niv]

When I pointed out how I thought he was lining his ducks up to shoot us down, one two, he told me it was an utter fabrication. Yet here he is, two pages later, laying the groundwork for a CKD lynch, which will look even more appealing to those of you who buy the "there must have been scum in the basement" theory after he gets me lynched today and it turns out I really am town.

CKD is town. I am town. At least two people (MBL, Xtoxm) have speculated that this can not be the case because they don't think the mod/some possible basement filling role would have put three townies down there. I can't say how many other people believe them, but buying that theory clearly leads down a road to a CKD lynch once I am lynched as town. Its bad enough to have myself getting mislynched. I don't want a second townie to go down simply due to a false pretense that if one of us isn't scum, the other has to be.

I can't find anything really right eith this post at all.

UnVote

,

Vote OMGL

, BBMars, Pooky, Xtoxm, Everyone else, Niv, No Lynch

[Niv]

UnVote

,

Vote OMGL

, BBMars, Pooky, Xtoxm, Everyone else, Niv, No Lynch

EMWODP:

I just checked with the cncordent calculator that mith provides, and this concordent reults in a tie, therefore

UnVote

, {

Vote OMGL

, BBMars}, Pooky, Xtoxm, Everyone else, Niv, No Lynch

[Niv]

Niv who did you target last night, and lets get that confirmed.

I chose not to use my ability, beacuse i figured a role like mine, with only two uses, would be much more useful for catching a scum hiding their rolename later than using it now on just anyone.

Niv

What changed from post 574

UnVote

,

Vote

BBMars,

Pooky

, Xtoxm, OMGL, Everyone else, Niv, No Lynch

to your very next post 579

When I pointed out how I thought he was lining his ducks up to shoot us down, one two, he told me it was an utter fabrication. Yet here he is, two pages later, laying the groundwork for a CKD lynch, which will look even more appealing to those of you who buy the "there must have been scum in the basement" theory after he gets me lynched today and it turns out I really am town.

CKD is town. I am town. At least two people (MBL, Xtoxm) have speculated that this can not be the case because they don't think the mod/some possible basement filling role would have put three townies down there. I can't say how many other people believe them, but buying that theory clearly leads down a road to a CKD lynch once I am lynched as town. Its bad enough to have myself getting mislynched. I don't want a second townie to go down simply due to a false pretense that if one of us isn't scum, the other has to be.

I can't find anything really right eith this post at all.

UnVote

,

Vote OMGL

, BBMars, Pooky, Xtoxm, Everyone else, Niv, No Lynch

like that bandwagon for no reason huh?

For the same reason yesterday and that crap added at the end of the wagon..for now

Vote: Niv

My vote switch was beacuse of that post, he spewed out so much freeking wifom in that post IMO that there was nothing right with it. i could not let that post slide by.

[Niv]

the only reason for you not to use your power is because you were sending in the kill....I also dont believe your reasoning for your immediate vote change.

confirm vote Niv

I would like to hear people's comment on this...

In my position, what would you have done?

Tags removed in quoted material. - Mod

[Niv]

I missed the fact that he claimed he could only use the ability twice...so if that is the case and we use his ability to verify someone's name, why on earth did he use it on pooky already? Niv?

To verify my ability. also, i wound up being redirected to rougeben remember?

[Niv]

Hi Nab Nab

How are you today?

Whatcha think about the game?

Think we gonna win?

You scum?

Who's scum?

What did you eat for dinner?

What is your opinion of Gaspar?

Hi pooky, think you're gonna contrbute any time soon?

think that continusally asking questions and not posting content is helpful?

Are you scum?

Are you going to start being helpful?

Should We just lynch you now?

UnVote, Vote Pooky

, Xtoxm, {everyone else}, Niv, No Lynch

[Niv]

What a redundant statement. no one on day one will ever be lynched without "a few scum" on their wagon

I'm not sure if this stuck out to me simply because it's wrong. If I were to read into it, I'd say Niv was implying knowledge that scum

were

on the Xtoxm wagon.

Niv, besides yourself and those that are dead, the other players on the Xtoxm wagon at the time were Gaspar, MichelSableheart, and SensFan. Which of these players do you think are most likely scum, if any at all?

picking out of those few, probally Micheal, however, reading my statement, its more of a philsosphy thing, i hate it when people say "there is probally scum on my wagon" beacuse in my experence, aside from near endgame situations, there will most likley be scum on every wagon, it's that whole scum thing of how they are trying to lynch people too.

[Niv]

Hi

Niv

Pooky

Do you always ask loaded questions?

do you think it's helpful?

KThxBai.

[Niv]

Niv & Pooky. Stop being ridiculous.

Pooky, it would be good if you actually answered some questions instead of dodging them. Niv, you're being a bit ridiculous in your narrow minded focus on Pooky.

I'm not being redculas, i am focusing on the peron i see as miost likey scum. if focusing on scum is wrong, i don't want to be right.

Why are you still trying to get me lynched?

Not trying to get you lynched, I'm trying to get pooky lynched.
i just still think there is a decent chance of you being scum. you really havent played that great.

Thesp - I've looked through the name list and i'm really not sure who I find most scummy anymore.

Then make a guess. Do

something

. Waiting is counter-productive.

QFT

I would probably go with Niv, as i've not liked how he's voted basically for the whole game. But am I right in assuming we want him around until he reveals his 2nd result?

What have you not liked about my voting?

All hammers are laid with strong conviction simply by the fact that they are irreversible and final.

I'd debate this.

Someone who isn't particularly sure/fond of the lynch, but feels that one is needed (say, as opposed to no-lynching at a deadline) does not feel conviction about making the lynch on that person. Maybe it's semantics/splitting hairs, but while one may show conviction for attaining a lynch, they do not necessarily show conviction for that

particular

hammer they drop.

QFT

QFT 2x

@pooky: what do you see in your play that makes you think you are veing proctive?

@everyone else: do you belive pooky is playing in a protown fashion/do you belive pooky is protown?

Also:

UnVote, Vote PookyTheMagicalBear

, Xtoxm {MichelSableheart, MrBuddyLee, Thesp}, curiouskarmadog, {Gaspar, vollkan, NabakovNabakov, Rogueben, curiouskarmadog, destructor}, Niv, No Lynch

[Niv]

@pooky: what do you see in your play that makes you think you are

veing proctive

?

reading my post this should say: being productive

[Niv]

You haven't been very productive about the way you've gone about expressing your suspicion though. You have been sarcastic about his play style and having been attacking by repetition with the not contributing argument. If you missed my post before read the answers to the questions that Pooky has asked and then decide whether he has been contributing.

It's almost like you've never played with niv before, ever.

really, i think I've been going about it in the best way possible, it's hard to make a case on someone who hasn't posted much content, therefore just pointing out what he has done in a way that gets others to look at pooky is probably the best way to deal with this issue

Because calling MBL's case against OGML "very good and valid" seems like a stretch to me.

However, my perception of him made a huge shift from "almost certainly town" to "quite likely to be scum", based on his claim and the case against him.

Also: MS, you may want to claim as we get closer to the deadline, as you look like the current concordent winner

Wow, this is some

really

good dirt. this is pretty much good enough to:

UnVote, Vote MichelSableheart

, PookyTheMagicalBear, Xtoxm {MrBuddyLee, Thesp}, curiouskarmadog, {Gaspar, vollkan, NabakovNabakov, Rogueben, destructor}, Niv, No Lynch

[Niv]

Has tunnel visioning worked out so far for you this game?

Yes, focusing on scum has helped me. how bout you?

Doesn’t surprise me that Niv and RogueBen are joining yet another bandwagon...what does surprise me, is Xtoxm is not.

When someone does something unquestionably scummy, generally bandwagons form on them

Niv also plays extremely singleminded. He focused on Xtoxm first, then later has been focused almost solely on pooky.

What's wrong with playing singlemindedly if you are 99.45632% sure that you are correct. if you were certain someone was scum, would you not focus on them?

Well, the only thing I can think of that would break the setup would be three scum on the same team in the same hidden location together. It would allow them to daytalk, and make them lynch immune. Just like lurking, it would bring them to the middle game unharmed, but unlike lurking, they have the perfect excuse for not posting.

What terrible speculation.

[Niv]

Being singleminded allows a scumplayer to having to comment on his teammates, and on anyone else except the player he focusses on, for that matter. It makes it much more difficult for the town to find connections, and is therefore beneficial for scum to do.

On the other hand, a pro-town player who focusses singlemindedly doesn't pay as much attention to the actions of other players. As a result, other scum players will be unnoticed to him, and be able to influence him heavily when he has to make a late switch to guarantee a lynch. Even if you are certain pooky is scum, you should comment on other players as well.

I am commenting on other players, I am even voting a player that is not Pooky (you). when i see something i don't like, i call it out, and pooky is definatally something i dont like

Well, the only thing I can think of that would break the setup would be three scum on the same team in the same hidden location together. It would allow them to daytalk, and make them lynch immune. Just like lurking, it would bring them to the middle game unharmed, but unlike lurking, they have the perfect excuse for not posting.

What terrible speculation.

MBL asked me to think about what would and wouldn't break the game. I answered with what I believed would break the game. If that is terrible speculation because it's unlikely to happen... Of course it is! I called it gamebreaking for a reason.

i know you were requested for it, i was just commenting on how terrible that situation would be.

[Niv]

The reason I share my reason for this ranking is because I believe that enough discussion has occured about Niv's scum-ness for me to insert my opinion into the discussion without unduly influencing other players as well as because I believe enough players are currently thrown off by Niv's play that such reasoning could be helpful to the town.

To further explain the reasons I am not sharing reasoning:

I expect everyone else to have some idea of a player's scuminess, I expect your initial reaction upon seeing someone rated as a Hold or Buy to be either agreeing with my rating, or disagreeing with my rating but based on your own reasons.

For example if I rate Thesp at Sell+, and you think I have no reason to put him at Sell+, you'd have to first look at all the relevant evidence(what has Thesp done? Why might Pooky put him at Sell+?)

If you then come to the conclusion that Thesp is actually much more likely to be town, then we can have a discussion as to what the reasons are on both of our sides and come to a conclusion.

But for me to insert reasoning into my original post would decrease your incentive to come to your own conclusion.

If you want to figure out of Player A is scum, and Player B posts a huge well documented Case on Player A with lots of points and well written reasons and all sorts of amazing analysis on why player A is scum, would you really read that and then go through the hassle of looking at Player A's actual play? odds are at that point you just go along and skip the whole doing your own analysis thing because everything looks good.

I don't want people to look at my reasoning/analysis and going, yup i agree with Pooky.

I want people to come up with their own analysis and reasoning on a player's play and then if our analyses disagree then we can pull out our reasoning and have a healthy debate.

Even if I was 99% sure a player is scum, I'd still want to have that debate rather than railroad people into lynching him because I could very well be wrong and I'd rather have people coming up with their own reasoning as to what alignment a player is than borrowing my faulty reasoning and coming up with the same conclusion as I have.

I know this may sound strange, but when you explain why you have been doing what you have been doing, it makes total sense. had you done this sooner, i probably would have understood sooner.

Has tunnel visioning worked out so far for you this game?

Yes, focusing on scum has helped me. how bout you?

LOL, that is why my vote is on you, Senior Slip up.….riddle me this, am I “focusing on scum” right now?

What the hell are you smoking. please stop mis interpreting my posts. thank you

[Niv]

Ugh, I'm uncomfortable with the Sablewagon. I agree that he's suspect for several reasons but not to the extent that other discourse should be ignored, which is what seems to be happening. The Pooky-Gaspar-Thesp axis still seems evasive.

This is such a clasic scum post that it scares me. it is so full of, He is scuummy, but when he turns up town, don't look at me. this is just terrible.

Also:

destructor, MrBuddyLee, NabakovNabakov, PookyTheMagicalBear, vollkan

, the fact that you have yet to vote/ post a concordent with opnly one day left before sunset really irkes me.

Also:

UnVote

,

Vote

MichelSableheart,

MrBuddyLee

, Xtoxm, Thesp, curiouskarmadog, PookyTheMagicalBear, Rogueben, {Gaspar, vollkan, NabakovNabakov, destructor}, Niv, No Lynch

[Niv]

NabNab's final post pushes him over the edge in regards to the suspicion meter.

None of the reasons that he provides for the Niv vote are particularly good.

I still firmly believe Niv is protown from my earlier reasons, along with the fact that he has a fairly proven night ability.

I am very leery of the Niv lynch.

vote NabNab

Do you know when the dead line is, this post pushes me right back to where I was on you before.

[Niv]

pre /in. would love to try a double head if someone will take on the suckage

[Niv]

I'd probably have ended up defending Niv until the bitter end -- my fatal flaw is that in scumgroups of 3+ people, I always manage to decide that exactly ONE of them is very very protown.

I'll take it as a compliment

[Niv]

You also came up with the hair-brained theory that Pooky was a cult leader. Pooky was so obviously protown, it wasn't even funny. And such a large part of it was based on Niv trying to throw Pooky under. Who the hell goes out of their way to bus their cult

leader

?

I thought Niv might, haha.

Well you see I am pretty bad at this game......

[Niv]

beacuse you were active in a sea of inactivity