Mafia 73: NEGWLTWWWTKY - Abandoned!

[Spambot]

Hello guys. I didn't realize day two would be 68 pages to read, but I'm going to catch up as quickly as possible. Are we under a deadline currently?

[Spambot]

Long game is long.

Or, possibly, we could look for something besides your false dilemma and lynch someone like zu_faul or jordan, both of which have also been scummy. This isn't a one or the other situation, TS, no matter whether you want it to be or not. There are lots of people still alive, and, even if I were scum, you still would want to look for the others.

Even if you were scum, huh? I don't like this post, off the bat.

[Spambot]

FoS: Toaster Strudel

for his incredibly opportunistic attempt to redirect suspicion to hasdgfas. hasdgfas isn't scum.

How do you know that? Toaster seems to be pretty aggressive here, and I like that.

[Spambot]

vollkan, why does your analysis of hasdgfas stop at the end of day 1?

I couldn't glean anything significant from any of his posts coming after where I stopped.

I don't have context here (how long has day 2 been going?), but that seems kind of lazy for somebody that is doing pbpa juggernauts.

[Spambot]

You lack a sense of humor if you think I'm seriously suggesting that only you or I should be lynched today.

I did accomplish the goal of getting the game moving, didn't I? No one has said anything worthy of notice for days. You weren't tempted to take advantage of the break, stick your neck out, and look for that "other scum?"

Did I say you were seriously suggesting it? No. But you did suggest it, and I responded to it.

Yes, I was tempted to look for the scum, and I attempted to do so. But it was a LONG day 1, and I didn't have as much time to look as I would've liked. I have looked closer at zu_faul lately though, and have found nothing useful from him at all. It's as though he's a parrot, chirping out what others have said and jumping on the easy bandwagons.

vote: zu_faul

Man, now you're just wagoning with pbpa guy? That's pretty weak sauce.

[Spambot]

town role, TS, because I'm not scum.

Sorry, there is no town role that would even consider targeting a Day 1 Doctor claim, for a second.

Especially when the alternative was a controversial player like Quagmire.

Um, watcher? Is there a dead watcher already or are you being purposefully dense?

[Spambot]

Okay. If you believe that Hasd is scum, and that he targetted the doctor (Peers) and that Peers survived that (for a little while) and that Hasd knew that Peers was town (though there are possibly two scum groups here, werewolves and Mafia, so I don't know that scum would KNOW that someone was town)...

then, since Hasd couldn't explain why Peers survived... why would he make such statements? Why not let town go ahead and lynch Peers, which might have seemed likely? Hasd-scum, in this scenario, knows his nightkill didn't go through... so he knows that Peers was targeted... so if he can't NK the doc, why not try to lynch him? The doc surviving CAN'T be a good thing for scum.

If I were smart scum in this scenario, and I put in a kill and it didn't work, I would assume "no cross kill" protection, as opposed to "NK-immune doc", and I would push quite hard for Peers' lynch as a member of the opposing scum team that I would then assume existed. It's win win, because then I'd get the townie points for catching scum without losing anyone on my own team.

Tell me how my logic is wrong.

This is BLATANT circular logic. You are making assumptions about what he would do as scum, when you really have no idea. I don't know if you guys are familiar with the term WIFOM, but that.

[Spambot]

Hasdagas is probably nervous that he might have been tracked doing the nightkill, he's trying to explain it away, he realizes he betrayed his knowledge that Peers had resisted the NK. Or he wants to use the "information" he had about Peer's temporary un-NK'ability to fake an investigative role. But it can only be a fake.

Setael, do you really think Hasd would have believed in the possibility of a NK-immune doctor? Doesn't that seem REALLY improbable to you?

I agree with both of these quotes. The only way hasdf's actions/posts makes sense to me is if

A) He's scum
B) He's very inexperienced, not very bright town that I will be so annoyed ended up with a power role and botched it this badly.

Has anyone played with him before? Do we know if he's played enough mafia that he should know better?

And I agree with erg0, I'd like a claim and I'd like him to talk more so we can figure out if it's A or B.

Didn't you just attack people for pushing for a claim from him?

[Spambot]

So, if Hasffgsdh is telling the truth, of the two other kills last night, none of them targeted the claimed doc? That is mind-boggling bad.

Is there always a SK in these big games? If so, both the mafia kill and SK kill would be accounted for. The third kill would be Hasffgdhh. Now, if we have a vig who fired and killed somebody last night, then there would be a missing kill, right? If that is the case, wouldn't it be effectively counterclaiming Hasfgsghh? Is there a flaw in the logic here?

A point in his favor is probably the "also killed" bit, as that's slightly different than the other kill descriptions.

Dude, if you are town and we don't lynch you, for the love of god don't use your ability again. The risk/reward odds mean that you are just going to kill a ton of townies.

[Spambot]

There's not

always

an SK in games this size, but it's reasonably common. If not an SK, it's quite possible that there are two separate scumgroups.

I'm not sure I follow the bit about the vig, but I find it unlikely that hasdgfas would be claiming someone else's kill as a defence, and there's no real way that he could have known about the Peers NK if it wasn't him (or a buddy) that killed him.

If he is scum, he is very likely the one that killed Peers. Follow? We'd be missing a scum kill and have two extra townie kills, which I don't buy.

[Spambot]

town role, TS, because I'm not scum.

Sorry, there is no town role that would even consider targeting a Day 1 Doctor claim, for a second.

Especially when the alternative was a controversial player like Quagmire.

Um, watcher? Is there a dead watcher already or are you being purposefully dense?

Watchers know who their night choice targeted. I am not aware of a role where, contrary to a Watcher, a player would know who targeted their night choice.

I have seen a Watcher role that targets a player and sees who targets that player. I guess it's not too common here.

[Spambot]

Dude, if you are town and we don't lynch you, for the love of god don't use your ability again. The risk/reward odds mean that you are just going to kill a ton of townies.

Not true at all, Spambot. CPR doc can be a very useful role. When used correctly, it's either a protect or a vig kill. Since the claimed doc is now dead, I will probably be acting as though I'm a vig, for all intents and purposes. I hope that you don't think that a vig should never kill for fear of hitting townies?

Ok, that makes more sense. Were you claiming earlier that you'd be using your ability as a doc? That's how I read it, but I can see being wrong there.

Aggressive vigs can be good, but if the player vigging is an idiot than it can be game-losing. Guess how I feel about you vigging people.

[Spambot]

Unvote, Vote:BM

Honestly, I don't like the colors, it was what turned me off of this particular game inj the first place, on top of me having life issues at the time. I had/have no intiative to make an effort in this game other then it's for Shanba. I make cases, just not in this game(I have gotten you lynched before, you should remember). Also, I have no intention of belittling Vollkan because I'm sure his post has a lot of great content in it, just none that I'm going to read.

Are you asking to get replaced?

[Spambot]

Ok, so where I'm at right now with people.

Reading as town:
Vollkan
TS
hasdfgaahs

lurkers/scummy:
BM
Panzerjager
Bookitty

Everybody else I look at on the player list and draw a blank on.

[Spambot]

That's not entirely true, I've actually got a weird gut feeling that Setael is scum.

[Spambot]

How's the reading going Spam?

It is kind of slow going, I haven't had a lot of free time lately. I am keeping up with the current stuff though.

[Spambot]

Ok, so where I'm at right now with people.

Reading as town:
Vollkan
TS
hasdfgaahs

lurkers/scummy:
BM
Panzerjager
Bookitty

Everybody else I look at on the player list and draw a blank on.

I'm somewhat pedantic when it comes to reasoning - I see it as a means of ensuring people are kept accountable. I would appreciate if you could give some explanation for each of the positions listed above.

Ok.

Vollkan - Like a lot of people in this game, I've never played with him before. However, the amount of work he's done since I joined with the reviews of players and everything gives me a good feeling about him. I think in general scum are lazy, and until he does something scummy I'm going to have him leaning town.

TS - This is more of a gut read, she is being extremely aggressive and I got a good vibe from several of her posts. I liked the way he went after hagendaas, even though it looks like she was wrong.

Hasgsdfaaas - He acted scummy up around the time of the claim, but I'm tending to believe said claim. Everybody pretty much ignored my suggestion to clear him. At this point, I guess I'm going to assume if we had a vig that he didn't fire last night, otherwise he would have claimed it by now.

BM - He seems to be lurking pretty hard, and I want to see how he responds to the wagon currently building on him.

Panzer - I don't like any of the posts I've read by him. He is basically saying he's not ever going to play, but he hasn't been replaced? Are we even looking for a replacement? I think it's more likely he's scum trying to skate by with that crap.

Bookitty - He stuck out to me as a lurker from what I've read.

Setael - From the one guy I played with her, I'm not getting the same vibe from her posts at all. She was really aggressive and analytical in that game, and in this one she seems much more passive and cautious.

[Spambot]

I've got a weird gut feeling Spambot is scum. No reasoning will be provided until he gives some.

Yeah, this post is sarcastic and antagonistic, which seems out of character.

[Spambot]

I've got a weird gut feeling Spambot is scum. No reasoning will be provided until he gives some.

Yeah, this post is sarcastic and antagonistic, which seems out of character.

Maybe you don't know me as well as you think

That is entirely possible.

[Spambot]

So, do you feel that lurking=scummy?

I know I'm answering for him, but YES YES YES. Lurking is lazy, you are not helping the town at all, often you could be giving away that you're a power role, and it is making it impossible to tell who is scum lurking and who is just a terrible townie.

Lurking is anti-town behavior, 100%. Scum hate posting. Townies are lazy. If no townies are lazy, scum are in trouble.

[Spambot]

im not scum.

Ok.

Vote: schismatized

[Spambot]

So, do you feel that lurking=scummy?

I know I'm answering for him, but YES YES YES. Lurking is lazy, you are not helping the town at all, often you could be giving away that you're a power role, and it is making it impossible to tell who is scum lurking and who is just a terrible townie.

Lurking is anti-town behavior, 100%. Scum hate posting. Townies are lazy. If no townies are lazy, scum are in trouble.

Jordan didn't ask you if lurking is "anti-town". He asked you if it is "scummy". We all know lurking is anti-town. We want to know why it is scummy.

Because scum are scared of posting, because every post is a chance to screw up. And he didn't ask *me* anything, and I said as much in the post. For somebody so thorough, you didn't read that very closely.

[Spambot]

Vollkan, why did you ignore me when I pointed out that you seem to be skimming?

[Spambot]

Let's get back to discussing today's lynch.

My vote is on your 6th. It could easily go on your 1st. I haven't yet reviewed the other members of your rogue's gallery.

So, you are saying that you'd be happy with killing just about anybody? That is what this is kind of implying.

[Spambot]

Kill me. I dare you. I call spambot.

Wait, what? Where the hell did this come from? Are people even voting for you? Why are you freaking out?

[Spambot]

@ Schis.

im not scum.

Ok.

Vote: schismatized

Let me get this straight. Is this the Spambot post that is a bee in your bonnet?

Is it correct that you have only one vote?

Is it correct that this single vote is Spambot's?

Is it correct that before his recent vote of you, Spambot didn't even suspect you?

Is it correct that you are now challenging Spambot to "kill" you?

Is it correct that, since he's already voting you, Spambot is quite unlikely to hammer you?

Just making sure I've got the facts.

Oh hey, I didn't realize that was him. What an awesome OMGUS. Come on, Schis, you should vote for me so we can BATTLE. And by battle, I mean lynch you.

[Spambot]

@Spambot: Two questions:
1) Do you want to lynch schism?
2) If yes, why do you think schism is scum?

I'll answer your questions when you answer mine.

[Spambot]

Schis is still voting for Haagendaas post-claim? Oh man, can I vote him harder? I want to vote him harder.

[Spambot]

Vollkan, why did you ignore me when I pointed out that you seem to be skimming?

My writing "you" was just a typing error. It's unusual for someone to answer a question like that for someone, so habit forced me to write "you" in there. I didn't mean to ignore it, but I finished the thought I was writing then kept scrolling down by accident - forgetting it.

I don't believe you. I stated, at the very beginning of that post of mine, that I was answering for somebody. This sounds like a made up reason, and isn't consistent at all with what happened. Why did you ignore me the first time I asked you about this?

So, you are saying that you'd be happy with killing just about anybody? That is what this is kind of implying.

I said what I meant and I meant what said.

My vote is on 6 (zu). It could easily go on 1 (BM). I haven't reviewed the others yet.

Where did I even hint that I was happy "killing just about anybody". I specifically stated who I was happy to vote, and declared I had not yet properly reviewed those besides.

Fair enough, but I am getting a bloodthirsty vibe from you.

[Spambot]

My meta on Battle Mage argues that he's likely scum.

I don't think Toaster Strudel's vote analysis is foolproof until you have at least one scum identified, so I'm not basing my opinion solely on hers (for instance, I'm not scum, so I'm certain it's not right in that case) but I've seen it be very accurate in a finished game, so I'm not going to dismiss it either.

At this point, I'm pretty sure Vollkan is town, which means that Quagmire was town, which is irritating. But I share Vollkan's suspicions of Zu Faul, and I look forward to his analysis of me.

I apologise for my absence from this game, but I've been fighting with a cold for weeks now and I haven't kept up with things as I should. Trying to catch up now.

unvote; vote Battle Mage

What? Why do you think BM is scum? You provide zero actual reasons in this post.

[Spambot]

I don't believe you. stated, at the very beginning of that post of mine, that I was answering for somebody. This sounds like a made up reason, and isn't consistent at all with what happened.

That's your prerogative. I made a typo. How am I being inconsistent?

I don't believe your explanation. Like, you read the post, then forgot what it said immediately? I'm not buying that, not from somebody that seems to be an analyst of sorts.

I Why did you ignore me the first time I asked you about this?

As I said - I forgot to address it. I didn't consciously bypass your question. Why would I?

Timeline time! After the post in which you responded with the typo, this happened:

So, do you feel that lurking=scummy?

I know I'm answering for him, but YES YES YES. Lurking is lazy, you are not helping the town at all, often you could be giving away that you're a power role, and it is making it impossible to tell who is scum lurking and who is just a terrible townie.

Lurking is anti-town behavior, 100%. Scum hate posting. Townies are lazy. If no townies are lazy, scum are in trouble.

Jordan didn't ask you if lurking is "anti-town". He asked you if it is "scummy". We all know lurking is anti-town. We want to know why it is scummy.

Because scum are scared of posting, because every post is a chance to screw up. And he didn't ask *me* anything, and I said as much in the post. For somebody so thorough, you didn't read that very closely.

Yes, scum have good reason to be fearful about screwing up. But lurking will, if dealt with properly, result in them being subjected to questioning - which they may not otherwise receive. As in, it is often much safer to hide just out of the spotlight (or, if circumstances suit, within it).

Now, in the post you quoted, I called you out on this "typo" and that you eemed to not be reading things closely. IN YOUR RESPONSE, YOU DO NOT READ IT CLOSELY. Seriously, you completely ignore my attack on you and talk about the meta-lurking stuff. WHY did you ignore that part? This is what I'm getting at, and you going "Ha, I made a typo oopsie" is not flying. If that was actually the case, why didn't you say it here? Instead, a bunch of posts go by, and I have to ask again.

So, tell me, why is it like pulling teeth getting you to explain this? I mean, you are claiming that you just subconsciously skimmed over half of two of my posts that you were responding to? That's a load of crap.

Fair enough, but I am getting a bloodthirsty vibe from you.

"I'm wrong, but I am going to convert this to a subjective feeling so he won't keep pushing me"

Haha, you think that YOU are pushing on ME? Dude, you should totally vote for me. DO IT COWARD.

[Spambot]

That's not the way I play this game Xyl. I don't state alignments without having pbped. I play neutral until guilty or innocent and (you can meta me on this) I will only very rarely have anyone even slightly in the "innocent" classification.

This isn't terribly relevant to what is going on, but that is the exact opposite of how I play. Most "scum" tells seem to be more often non-tells, and townies being dumb. I am much, MUCH better at reading people as town then scum. Scum are hard to find, because they are trying their hardest to hide. Townies are not hard to find, because they want you to find them and are just being themselves. This is why lurking hurts the town, I can't get a read on you if you're not posting, so you end up on the scummy list a lot.

So, hey, there is a relevant point in this after all.

STOP LURKING YOU JERKS.

[Spambot]

Responding to prod.

Responding to prod means actual posting something worthwile.

[Spambot]

What? Why do you think BM is scum? You provide zero actual reasons in this post.

That's absolutely not true. I said my meta on Battle Mage was that he was acting as he does as scum here. You may not like that reason, but it DOES constitute an actual reason. I can't provide you with a meta read on him, sadly, because 1) the games are ongoing, though he's dead and 2) if you haven't done the meta research on him yourself why would you believe me anyway? But knowing how someone acts when they're scum DOES constitute a reason. I didn't call for his lynch, I put a vote on him.

Why are you defending him so strongly, Spambot?

Ok, I am pretty sure meta you are scum. You see how that works? I can just say stuff without backing it up, too. Why don't you tell me something scummy BM has done? If you'd just said "hay, he's lurking" then I wouldn't have much of a problem. But you just said "long post, throwaway meta line, vote BM." and that is pretty weak.

I am not defending him, I am taking issue with your weak vote. Way to try and turn this on me, though.

At this point, I'm pretty sure Vollkan is town, which means that Quagmire was town, which is irritating.

Why are you sure vollkan is town?

Nice subtle misquote. I said I was "pretty sure". Vollkan's stated suspicions are about the same as mine, and his analysis of the game is actually helpful.

Did you think Quagmire was scum during your reread, Xylthixlm?

Yes, the incredibly huge difference between sure and "pretty" sure. Are you seriously arguing semantics now? You don't even answer why you are PRETTY sure he's town, thus avoiding the question and turning it into a fight about something else.

I could get behind lynching any of Panzer, Schis, or Bookitty at this point. First choice is still Schis.

[Spambot]

Ok, I am pretty sure meta you are scum. You see how that works? I can just say stuff without backing it up, too. Why don't you tell me something scummy BM has done? If you'd just said "hay, he's lurking" then I wouldn't have much of a problem. But you just said "long post, throwaway meta line, vote BM." and that is pretty weak.

If you can show how my play here is consistent with my play as scum elsewhere, fine and good. I welcome that kind of analysis. Since other people in this game do have relevant experience with my playstyle, and indeed of Battle Mage's, and since to my knowledge I've never played with you, I'd be happy to provide you with representative games on which to base a meta. The difference between your example and mine is that I do have a decent meta read on Battle Mage, and you don't have a decent meta read on me. (If I'm mistaken, please feel free to provide that evidence.)

You're missing my point. For all I know, you are lying about this read on BM, and all you are really doing is saying you're gut and games in progress are making you think BM is scum. I think that's weak, and you might be lying and just using that as an excuse to hop on the most convenient wagon.

And I am not going to go read a bunch of games just to get a better idea of how everybody plays.

You're arguing that you're "finding town" and then the ones who are left must be scum -- what's your success rate with this method?

Pretty good. In a couple of my recent games, on day 3 I had a list of possible scum that had about 6 people on it and all or all but one of the scum were on it. Of course, it's hard to convince people that I'm right, even when it's demonstrable I've been correct in the past.

Up until that point, it's basically just figuring out who is the best odds lynch. Right now, I think that is Schis because he is lurking and HUGELY overreacted to a poke. I want to hear his responses first, but his last few posts have set of all kinds of alarm bells.

Why don't you try and convince me that BM would be a better lynch?

[Spambot]

TS - This is more of a gut read, she is being extremely aggressive and I got a good vibe from several of her posts. I liked the way he went after hagendaas, even though it looks like she was wrong.

What is your feeling on the difference between a meta read on someone and a gut read on someone? Which one is easier to defend oneself against, in your opinion?

I am not using a gut read to justify a vote, is the difference. Otherwise, they are fairly similar.

Look, you are completely misunderstanding me. Maybe you have a meta/gut/whatever read on BM and maybe you don't. Giving that as the only reason to vote for somebody that has a wagon on him is scummy. If you think he's scum, go find a couple scummy posts by him for us or explain your read.

Hopping onto a wagon with weak weasons is incredibly scummy, and that's what I'm calling you on right now.

[Spambot]

Look, you are completely misunderstanding me. Maybe you have a meta/gut/whatever read on BM and maybe you don't. Giving that as the only reason to vote for somebody that has a wagon on him is scummy. If you think he's scum, go find a couple scummy posts by him for us or explain your read.

Hopping onto a wagon with weak weasons is incredibly scummy, and that's what I'm calling you on right now.

Do you understand why I find it humourous and ironic that you are lecturing me for giving insufficient reason for suspecting or voting someone?

Shouldn't you be finding posts that prove I'm scummy? Or are you just going to repeat the "lurking" accusation until you get someone to believe it?

I am not voting for you, cone. I am talking about VOTING FOR SOMEBODY WITH A BIG WAGON ON THEM. Are you being dense on purpose?

Look guys, here is a scummy post.

[Spambot]

EBWOP: Bookitty, why don't you tell me who your top 3 picks for scum are?

[Spambot]

I'll be out of town all weekend. Don't know if I'll have access.

That's a real shame.

[Spambot]

Vollkan is absolutely 100%

not

trying to seperate scum from town in this game. He needs more votes.

(Hint: We have two mostly-cleared players. Both of them came up at least 50% scum in his list above.)

Who are the mostly cleared players and why are they mostly cleared?

[Spambot]

Vollkan is absolutely 100%

not

trying to seperate scum from town in this game. He needs more votes.

(Hint: We have two mostly-cleared players. Both of them came up at least 50% scum in his list above.)

Who are the mostly cleared players and why are they mostly cleared?

Wow, hey, HERE's a scummy post!

I know the answer to this one too! (Though I disagree on the other one, Xyl. I think it's 60/40, not more.)

Wow, you seem to be expressing that you are reading the thread closely, and yet you do not seem to realize I replaced in like a week ago and haven't read the whole thread. Amazing!

[Spambot]

EBWOP: Bookitty, why don't you tell me who your top 3 picks for scum are?

You. Battle Mage. Zu Faul.

Thanks for asking!

Why do you think I'm scum? Is it a meta read?

[Spambot]

Who are the mostly cleared players and why are they mostly cleared?

Wow, hey, HERE's a scummy post!

Special for today only...

Day Investigate: Spambot

- Woot!

Is this serious? I'm going to be pissed at you if you really wasted an investigation on me.

[Spambot]

Wow, you seem to be expressing that you are reading the thread closely, and yet you do not seem to realize I replaced in like a week ago and haven't read the whole thread. Amazing!

Wow, really? And yet you called me a lurker, despite the fact your predecessor had like, what, SIX posts? MY predecessor did better than that, and apart from the time when I was ill, so did I, though I didn't spam the thread, admittedly.

If you haven't read the whole thread, then why are you putting unexplained votes on people (and just because there's no wagon on them does not clear you of responsibility in this) and acting like you actually have a clue when you don't? Read the thread before you start throwing attitude around. Seriously.

How is it my fault the guy before me lurked? Am I lurking? I called you a lurker because I had read the last several pages and hadn't seen much from you.

What vote is unexplained? And I like how apparently my opinion is worthless because I haven't finished reading the thread. You are logic disabley.

[Spambot]

There's no such thing as a wasted investigation, unless it's on someone who can be definitively cleared some other way.

A day investigation would be a very powerful ability, and to just throw it out there without any real reason would be awful. I think that was a joke, though.

Ok, so I agree that hagsfaas is pretty much confirmed, but the other is you? Why?

[Spambot]

While I wait for results, can you give us a short list of players you most suspect and why, since you might die today?

If you really used that ability, you're going to get an innocent, but I don't mind obliging anyway. I think most of these people are good candidates for scum:

Bookitty - Her vote on BM is weak sauce, and instead of giving actual reasons for her vote, she has turned it into an attack on me and ignored my request for that. REPEATEDLY. She is overreacting badly to my saying she was a lurker, and is going out of her way to prove to somebody she supposedly think is scum that she is being so helpful to the town.

Panzer - He is lurking, lolz.

Schis - He flipped out badly when poked, and started yelling "Nuh uh! I am not scum! YOU ARE SCUM! STOP LOOKING AT ME!" and then vanished.

Vollkan - I kind of liked his responses to me, but Xyl pointing out that he doesn't have a mason as town on his list is beyond ridiculous. It's kind of more of a dumb tell than a scum tell, but it bothers me a lot. It's like he isn't looking for townies.

Setael - I have not seen any aggressiveness from her, and she led the town in a mini I was in. Her posts have been short, and her most recent one was just her saying she wasn't posting. I think that can be more scummy that simply not posting at all, because it shows she is concerned about how we are perceiving her.

[Spambot]

How is it my fault the guy before me lurked? Am I lurking? I called you a lurker because I had read the last several pages and hadn't seen much from you.

What vote is unexplained? And I like how apparently my opinion is worthless because I haven't finished reading the thread. You are logic disabley.

Yet for a portion of the game there was a period where I was one of only three or four people posting. So you made an unsupported allegation against me based on "the last several pages", which isn't a full picture of the game.

Do you want a damn cookie? Ok, there are supposedly portions of this game where you were not lurking. You are also not lurking now. Whup-de-do.

You had to be asked to give justification for your accusations and your reads on people; yet you criticise me and tell me to try to persuade you -- why? Isn't it your responsibility to READ THE THREAD and actually come up with reasoning of your own? I gave mine, you can like it or not, you can call me scummy for it or not (since you already called me scummy for lurking, I'm not taking it too seriously, no), but it's not my job to persuade you. It's not "MY" bandwagon on Battle Mage. If you don't like meta reads, that's your right, but I think they're a lot more reliable than "gut" reads, which provide ZERO opportunity for self-defence.

I was giving my reads on people because that's what I do. When I'm dead, you guys can look at my posts and see that my gut (which is extremely good) was on certain people. You guys prob won't, because you are lazy and don't know how good my gut is, but I'm going to do it anyway.

WHAT IS THE META READ? You keep saying that, over and over, like it has some sort of meaning in itself. I don't know meta on BM. TEACH ME. What is this read based on? You are dismissing my gut reads, but from all I can tell you are doing the same thing.

It is also YOUR responsibility if BM gets lynched. That is on YOU. YOU are voting for him. You don't get to distance yourself from the wagon, saying shit like "oh snap, I was just going with my silly meta read, oopsie." No, WHY DO YOU WANT HIM TO DIE? The burden of proof is on YOU. Especially when for all we know you are scum that is making shit up to get an easy mislynch.

CAPS ARE FUN

I don't know if your opinion is worthless. I know you're up on your high horse trying to claim some sort of superior logical position when your own lack of knowledge and lack of justification for your own statements doesn't really support that.

You don't know if my opinion is worthless, but you are saying it is, right? XD

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Ok, so I agree that hagsfaas is pretty much confirmed, but the other is you? Why?

I'm the dead mason's partner.

Noted! I'd say I was getting a slight townie read from you, but you probably wouldn't believe me now.

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When I'm dead...

You think you're going to die?

Probably at some point.

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Bookitty - Her vote on BM is weak sauce, and instead of giving actual reasons for her vote, she has turned it into an attack on me and ignored my request for that. REPEATEDLY. She is overreacting badly to my saying she was a lurker, and is going out of her way to prove to somebody she supposedly think is scum that she is being so helpful to the town.

Who is the person I supposedly think is scum that I'm trying to impress with how helpful I am to the town? YOU? Can you give examples of me doing so?

You're darn right I'm reacting badly to you saying I was a lurker, because it's not true. And it's an example of hypocrisy, much like what I'm about to show:

Wait, how am I being a hypocrite here? Are you accusing me of being a lurker? Because that would be epic. Oh, wait, it's because the guy I replaced was lurking and that is my fault, right? XD

Vollkan - I kind of liked his responses to me, but Xyl pointing out that he doesn't have a mason as town on his list is beyond ridiculous. It's kind of more of a dumb tell than a scum tell, but it bothers me a lot. It's like he isn't looking for townies.

Why is it okay that you haven't fully read the thread upon replacing into this game, but it's beyond ridiculous that Vollkan hasn't done so yet, in a similar situation?

Did you even read what I wrote there? It is scummy that he doesn't have the mason as town, I didn't say anything about him reading the thread.

You should flail harder.

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You don't know if my opinion is worthless, but you are saying it is, right? XD

Yeah, pretty much. So far you've produced a lot of noise and not a lot of actual reasoning. So I'll say it flat out. Your opinion is worthless, because you haven't bothered to read the thread, but you're all full of opinions and hot air, which would be cool and all, except you HAVEN'T READ THE THREAD.

I've provided lots of good reasoning, and I find it insulting that you think you have a grasp of logic. Your opinion is worthless because you are dumb. Neener neener.

Seriously, I am all full of opinions? Like, shit, wouldn't want that. My opinions are awesome and I have a just fine grasp on what is going on since I replaced in.

Why would he ask? From a scum POV the obvious explaination for a missing kill is a doc or bulletproof, not mod error.

Because Peers had already claimed doc. I don't think Hasdgfas thought there was a bulletproof doc (that's WAY overpowered), and I doubt he thought there was another doc protecting Peers or that Peers protected himself (mostly docs can't, that I know about). It could have happened like you say, but I still say it's not confirmed that way.

So, what do you think happened? What do you think is hagsdfaas' real role? Stop trying to discredit him, scum.

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When I'm dead...

You think you're going to die?

Probably at some point.

At the end of this day, maybe? The last minute distancing is very transparent.

What the hell are you talking about? Do you think I posted thoughts from the perspective of "Well, when I am lynched today as scum, you guys can read this"? I meant exactly what I said: When I am dead, you guys will know exactly what I was thinking and can choose to use it or not.

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You guys will know exactly what I was thinking and can choose to use it or not.

Which is what? Can you sum up the important bits we should remember?

The post that's on the very last page.

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Wait, how am I being a hypocrite here? Are you accusing me of being a lurker? Because that would be epic. Oh, wait, it's because the guy I replaced was lurking and that is my fault, right? XD

You didn't read the thread, and you accused me of lurking because I was ill, without giving any regard to the fact that you replaced one of the all time great lurkers. Are you arguing that your role is different than Sir Tornado's? Do you not own his actions once you take on his role?

No, holding me responsible for the play of somebody else is beyond retarded, because I can't explain why he did what he did.

Did you even read what I wrote there? It is scummy that he doesn't have the mason as town, I didn't say anything about him reading the thread.

You didn't know that Xylthixlm was the mason. Yet you criticise Vollkan harshly for apparently not knowing the exact same thing. But it's pro-town when you don't know it, right? It's only scummy when other people do it, not you, never you.

This is why your opinion is worthless.

Did Vollkan replace in a week ago and not read the thread? It's called context, cone.

Actually, you think my opinion is worthless because you can't recognize when you are being trolled and now you are fighting with me because I hurt your e-feelings and are responding emotionally.

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You guys will know exactly what I was thinking and can choose to use it or not.

Which is what? Can you sum up the important bits we should remember?

The post that's on the very last page.

Oh please make a short summary.

I'll even add a little more.

Hard town:
Xyl
Hasgfaas

Reading Town:
TS

Reading scum:
Setael
Bookitty
Vollkan
Schis
Panzer

Everybody else is still neutral and needs to post more.

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Where's BM in that list?

Neutral. All I remember from him was a "Hi Spambot" post and that's it.

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Setael - I have not seen any aggressiveness from her, and she led the town in a mini I was in. Her posts have been short, and her most recent one was just her saying she wasn't posting. I think that can be more scummy that simply not posting at all, because it shows she is concerned about how we are perceiving her.

Are you really trying to paint me as scummy for posting that I would be out of town for the weekend without access?

Also, you are making unbalanced comparisons. In that dead people have powers game you're referring to, I was put into the position of transporter and anyone with that role would "lead the town". I don't think you should base a meta read on one game where I had a leadership role.

You were more or less chosen for that role, so I really don't think you are being completely truthful here. It's a minor point against you anyway, but it's still a point.

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If Schis was town and really didn't care, he would have been asked to be replaced. Instead, he made like one post where he freaked the hell out over nothing, and now has gone back to lurking. If I can figure out how to use a search function, I'll go back and look over his posts I haven't gotten to yet.

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You were more or less chosen for that role, so I really don't think you are being completely truthful here. It's a minor point against you anyway, but it's still a point.

I don't understand what you're saying. I do understand that you're subtly accusing me of lying, which I don't appreciate. Please explain what you think it changes that I was chosen for that role. I really don't understand what point you think you have on me.

Ok, so in that game you were town and had somewhat important decisions to make. How is that different from this game, exactly? Like, I don't GET why you would be playing differently.

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Well, for one thing the only net result is a dead body. How sure are you that he's actually scum?

If he is scum, there is a pretty strong case for you being scum based on this post.

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I still think erg0 is scum. It's hard to come up with a case since he doesn't really provide content, so I guess it's more gut than anything.

I'll be out of town again until Tuesday - this time for sure no access.

unvote

See you guys Tuesday.

Why did you unvote here?

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Ok, i'm on Page 15. Should i post analysis as i go, or can you lynch-happy kids wait for me to read the whole thread?

BM

Analysis as you go! Let's read the thread together.

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I'm not lurking intentionally. I'm very disenchanted with this game, as I'm sure a great many people are, and I don't have a lot to contribute right now. Being trolled tends to destroy my enjoyment and involvement in a given game, and I don't really feel like doing a great deal of analysis (as normally I would) in this case. It feels like a lot of work for basically no reason, and I'm not doing it.

It's possible I'll get over my mental block on this game, but right now I am having a hard time caring if I'm lynched or not. I'm not scum, but I don't have any better insights than anyone else, so I suppose it doesn't really matter.

I would note that Battle Mage has been here from the start and there is no valid reason for him to have to "catch up" with the game from the start. That's a bogus excuse, and I'm surprised no one else has jumped on him for it, given the level of vitriol Vollkan has gotten for what is, in fact, ALWAYS his playstyle. (Yes, I know, it's a meta read, and thus worthless. Still, I know it to be true.)

Scum don't have e-feelings to hurt, scum. Seriously.

First, you admit you are now lurking... because of my "worthless" opinion? Do you have the thinnest hide of anybody on the internet ever? Claiming to have a "mental block" and not wanting to contribute anymore is absolutely laughable.

Also, you say you don't have better insight than "anyone else", not even me? That's a contradiction. So is you saying near the end that meta reads are worthless.

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Its tough keeping a low profile.

Are you a jester? Jester's are retarded. I think you're just awful, lazy scum who wants us to think that.

Please die.

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Schis is playing WIFOM games and trying to convince us he's too scummy/retarded to actually be scum. It's bullshit and he needs to die.

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Need a lynch scene here!