Mafia 73: NEGWLTWWWTKY - Abandoned!

[Toaster Strudel]

UNOFFICIAL Vote Count:

6: Peers*

(YagamiLight**, Erg0, hasdgfas*, Bookitty, Panzerjager, Setael, ABR)

6: Kscope

(Zu_Faul**, Yosarian2***, schismatized, MoS***, TS, ABR)

3: MoS***

(Kscope, IH, Peers*)

2: Quagmire***

(Battle Mage, JordanA24)

1: Setael

(Sir Tornado)

1: Bookitty

(Quagmire***)

Now, that's what I call an interesting race.

[Toaster Strudel]

UNOFFICIAL Vote Count: EBWOP

6: Peers*

(YagamiLight**, Erg0, hasdgfas*, Bookitty, Panzerjager, Setael)

6: Kscope

(Zu_Faul**, Yosarian2***, schismatized, MoS***, TS, ABR)

3: MoS***

(Kscope, IH, Peers*)

2: Quagmire***

(Battle Mage, JordanA24)

1: Setael

(Sir Tornado)

1: Bookitty

(Quagmire***)

Now, that's what I call an interesting race.

[Toaster Strudel]

How come EVERY GAME I'M IN WITH KSCOPE, he is wagoned for no reason, other than lurking or something stupid.

Take it up with Zu_Faul, Yosarian2, schismatized, MoS.

And stop complaining, there were plenty of good reasons to vote Quagmire, and you passed.

[Toaster Strudel]

Agreed. I already made this mistake once (ongoing game), I'm not doing it again.

What do you mean? BTW your vote tags didn't work.

[Toaster Strudel]

Oops Erg0 I confused you with Setael.

[Toaster Strudel]

There's alot better reasons to vote for Panzer or MoS.

I agree, about MoS for sure. But since the MoS wagon stalled, I switched to KScope.

I'll leave you to convince people to revive the MoS wagon, you can count on my vote. Good luck.

[Toaster Strudel]

Agreed. I already made this mistake once (ongoing game), I'm not doing it again.

What do you mean? BTW your vote tags didn't work.

I mean that I jumped onto Kscope wagon in almost identical circumstances in another large game, and he was town. He just seems to be an easy target for the town that runs out of ideas.

There have been plenty of ideas, plenty of wagons, and equally plenty of derailments, and downright sabotage by you-know-who.

[Toaster Strudel]

Albert's been extremely wagonny, even for him, so far.

Thank god. We're what, now? On page 52? Day 1... we're not wagonny enough. Thank god for players like ABR that keep this game alive. I'm not about to berate wagonny players. Not here, not now, not today, not in this game.

I'm on your side buddy. I'm voting for Bookitty.

Yeah, good job, you're voting, at deadline, for a player that has only your vote. That's so scummy, hiding off-wagon like that.

I think my #1 suspect right now is actually Panzer. So I'll go with that.

unvote, vote: Panzer

Yeah, good job, you're voting, at deadline, for a player that has only your vote. That's so scummy, hiding off-wagon like that.

[Toaster Strudel]

Hence the phrase "run out of ideas". With all of the previous wagons failing, the town has implicitly consented to an easy lynch that most can feel comfortable with. I wonder how many of the people on the Kscope wagon would actually list him as their top suspect?

If this town cannot be convinced that a player that needs to be brought to lynch minus one to read his role PM and may still be lying about it, wastes 2/3 of this interminable day 1 on a copycat policy vote (I hope you realize I'd

never played with Quagmire before

, so why he'd policy vote me, is anyone's guess), then wastes the rest of the day voting for a very rational player (Bookitty) who has, so far, played an intelligent, logical game, and maintains this absurd vote near deadline, a player that refuses to claim, refuses to answer questions from ANYONE, and that declares openly that he's "not playing" this game, well... let's face it, we're never going to lynch anyone.

And at some point, we have to cooperate. Since you all decided that Quagmire was too precious an asset to the game for us to spare, since there is resistence to an MoS lynch, since I can't seem to convince anyone that Yosarian2 is scummy... I'm cooperating with the rest of you, and, from the leftovers that our current bandwagons are, I chose Kscope, because *maybe* and I admit it's a long shot, he's being bus'ed. Do I really think we're lynching scum with Peers or Kscope? Chances are really slim. Is it pathetic? Absolutely. If we're going to lynch an iffy lurker, we might as well lynch an outright negative influence, such as Quagmire, but since some of you can't imagine this game going on without him, well, I'll cooperate with your wishes, and you can continue to enjoy the pleasure of his company until endgame if you wish.

Now, that's selfless cooperation.

[Toaster Strudel]

MoS (I can't shake the thought that he always plays like this)

META on MoS:

Cheerful (just a hint of cranky): Power role
Cranky (plain old cranky): Town
Anxious (cranky but with some hand wringing): Scum

[Toaster Strudel]

UNOFFICIAL Vote Count:

8: Kscope

(Zu_Faul**, Yosarian2***, schismatized, MoS***, TS, ABR, Peers*, Setael)

5: Peers*

(YagamiLight**, Erg0, hasdgfas*, Bookitty, Panzerjager)

3: MoS***

(Kscope, IH)

2: Quagmire***

(Battle Mage, JordanA24)

1: Setael

(Sir Tornado)

1: Bookitty

(Quagmire***)

1: Panzer

(Setael)

Boo, would you be willing to switch your vote to Quag? I would too, and that would bring Peers and Quagmire head to head at 4:4: - it would be interesting to see how the votes shift after that. Otherwise we'll be looking at a Kscope lynch, which is pretty loser in terms of the information we'll get from it tomorrow. It will be WIFOM-contaminated, because Kscope has been lurkerish, and no one really feels particularly strongly about the merit of the lynch. Lynching Quagmire will give us the clearest picture.

[Toaster Strudel]

unvote, vote: Quagmire

[Toaster Strudel]

UNOFFICIAL Vote Count:

6: Kscope

(Zu_Faul**, Yosarian2***, schismatized, MoS***, Peers*, Setael)

5: Quagmire***

(Battle Mage, JordanA24, Bookitty, TS, ABR)

4: Peers*

(YagamiLight**, Erg0, hasdgfas*, Panzerjager)

2: MoS***

(Kscope, IH)

1: Setael

(Sir Tornado)

1: Bookitty

(Quagmire***)

1: Panzer

(Setael)

Bookitty, the question is open. I'm sick of hearing myself explaining the same things over and over again.

@ Peers: you can pick between Kscope and Quagmire, now, you have an extra option.

[Toaster Strudel]

Let me supply some fine French wine:

[Toaster Strudel]

I hate WIFOM arguments.

Haha, it took me a good 15 seconds to get it!

[Toaster Strudel]

Zu_Faul started the game with a random vote for me, followed by a vote for Sikario8.
Reason: "That's quite obvious. His vote was scummy as hell. Just when everyone called him out he voted on a bandwagon. "

Then he switches to Peers: "This post seems like a scum tell. Together with your other posts lately it's more like a scumscream, then a scumtell. How many to lynch peers?" But he never votes for Peers. He passes on the Jordan wagon, and votes Kscope ON NOVEMBER 30: "He did not post anything significant and did a bit of bandwagon jumping. "

Defends ABR, finds Sikario8 scummy, then makes a long post (mostly quotes from other players, zu_faul isn't verbose).

In this post, he berates TS, defends Yos, FOS's Bookitty, approves of MoS, FOS's Setael.

So... he posts very little, and sparingly, yet - there is a disprotionate amount of see-saw'ing and inconsistency that, frankly, strike me as leaning scum, rather than leaning town.

At the same time, while being all over the map, he's been voting for Kscope since NOVEMBER 30.

Also, his last post feels a little jumpy, especially considering he's not in jeopardy at the moment, and this town can't lynch anybody anyway.

[Toaster Strudel]

She is very much provoking me by persisting seemingly serious consideration that I would actually continue policy voting you this far into the game. I'm being baited into getting angry, which I've already done, and I've considered replacing out of this game entirely on numerous occasions, just because of the sheer ridiculousness of it all. She may do it in a calm manner, but she is very much provoking me.

Ah, c'mon. The problem is you, not her. She's playing the game, she believes what she writes, she's not trying to anger you.

Then have some logic for it instead of just shouting randomly about Quagmire. I'm not the only person who thinks lynching Quagmire is a retarded idea, and we can't all be scum.

Lynching Quagmire is a RETARDED idea? I mean, I would understand if you said that lynching Quagmire is not the best idea we could have, or maybe that there are better alternatives, or a better strategy but that's it's RETARDED? You've got to be kidding.

It's not retarded to lynch a player that doesn't play the game, refuses to claim and answer questions, policy votes (unlike you, MoS, Quagmire has never played a game with me, so his policy vote is very bizarre), then stubbornly sticks his vote off-wagon, and refuses to take a position on the dozens of aborted wagons we've had today.

"Retarded" is not the first word that comes to my mind when it comes to lynching that kind of player.

You can strike #2. For someone who claims to have a good meta on me, you should know that #2 is impossible.

Hey! You're funny, suddenly. You're faking a power role? Hahahhhahahha.

[TS-logic]Also, gotta love how everyone tried to revive the Quagmire wagon after it became apparent Kscope was close to being lynched. I smell scumbuddies protecting him. Vote stays.[/TS-logic]

[joke]Why protect Kscope when we can bus Quagmire?[/joke]

[Toaster Strudel]

I don't think you're trying to "provoke" me. Not anymore, to be sure. It's behind us. But I still think you're scum in this game... can't help it, sorry.

We don't gain any usable information from lynching Quagmire, and we can guarantee that he will read his role pm tonight, even if he hasn't yet. If he continues this same play Day 2, I will be right beside you in leading his lynch. But today is not the day. It's obvious that Quagmire isn't going to cooperate today.

The only problem with your reasoning, is that the Number One reason for a player not to cooperate, especially after he allegedly read his role PM, is that he's scum.

I believe we'll get more solid information from lynching Quagmire, than from lynching K'scope, who you are voting for at the moment. That's my opinion.

And one thing is certain. In the off-chance that we may be lynching a townie, Quagmire would be the one with the least downside.

[Toaster Strudel]

We're now tomorrow. Claim time.

[Toaster Strudel]

^^^
Oops...

[Toaster Strudel]

Peers, you're still evading the question. Why do

YOU

think he's scum? Not why does everyone else think he's scum, why do YOU think he's scum?

This post makes me uneasy.

You're defending Quagmire again - indirectly, yes, but you are.

I note that you are currently voting for Peers, not Quagmire.

I do agree that there is merit in questioning Peers. However, for YOU to do it, given your history of defending Quagmire, and at this particular time in the game, is pretty scummy.

[Toaster Strudel]

I'd like to point this out, emphasis mine of course:

When Quag almost got lynched you tried to stop it because you knew he was town. Then you try to frame Sikario for 'trying to set up a lynch', which is BULLSHIT that you've constructed.

Sikario said we lynch Quagmire iirc, because that person is scum. Whenever Quagmire is proven scum and dead, we move on to lynch his hasdgfas (iirc). Unless Sikario is bussing his partner Quagmire, the only person trying to set someone up is you.

Now die.

No,

I tried to stop it

because it was a completely idiotic reason for lynching someone. And, in case you didn't notice, sikario

is

trying to set up a lynch.

He said that we should lynch Quag

and then me

next if Quag comes up scum. That is 100% setting up a lynch.

I'm not trying to "set someone up", I'm trying to scumhunt, which is hard when we're still stuck on quagmire and his role PM. Especially when people such as you and sikario will not give it up.

I'm not voting for sikario right now, because the only thing I have on him is trying to set up a chain-lynch and the fact that he won't get off of the Quagmire thing.

I'm still on Peers because I still think he's scum based on what was said

about 15 pages ago

.

If I see more suspicious stuff from sikario, I'll vote him, but right now, I don't want him lynched.

[Toaster Strudel]

I'm still voting for Peers because I feel more comfortable with a Peers lynch than a Quagmire lynch. Of course I'm going to question him, even now, because he's still my top suspect. However, if it comes to the deadline, I will vote for Quag because after he supposedly read his role PM I haven't seen good play from him at all.

I understand, but I do hope that your timing causes me to worry.

So... I'm going to examine every instance of you mentioning Peers.

Nov. 10:

ok. this bandwagon seems to have more behind it than the BM one. unvote, vote:peers

You had to be ASKED to give a reason. The reason was:

Although this has been said, the random phase is only the first few votes of the game, and even those aren't always random.

Consider you own SEMI-random vote on MoS. Interesting.

IMO, you should at least try to defend yourself somewhat rather than saying "Oh no, a bandwagon on me. I hope I don't get too defensive and have people lynch me." I don't see that as a defense. It's more of a deflection.
He could at least try to show that he had a good reason for jumping on the bandwagon rather than making something up that he tried to make sound good. It seemed like just jumping on the bandwagon while trying to look as unsuspicious as possible.

Those are pretty flimsy reasons, don't you think? They're good enough for the first pages of Day 1, so I'm not berating you for it.

Let's continue.

Nov 13: "I'm still not liking peers. See: everyone's posts about him."
Nov 16: "Peers, your "content" is not making me want to unvote you. I haven't seen a very good defense, so my vote stays. "
Nov 21: "Ok, the only things that I have time to say right now are that Peers's reactions have been iffy, and I don't like his "case" on neo-viper."
Dec 11: "I'm still on Peers because I still think he's scum based on what was said about 15 pages ago."
Dec 12: "You seem to agree with ABR a lot when it keeps suspicion off of you."
Dec 12: "Um, lashing out? I was making a comment about how Peers seems to follow ABR whenever he changes wagons to someone other than him, possibly so that he can prevent the suspicion from coming back onto him. I'm still voting for Peers because I still find him most suspicious.

Right now, I'm looking for ways to show that

, and that comment was one of them."
Dec: 18: "we need more pressure on peers." "Peers will still be here tomorrow unless he's vigged or something." Then you briefly voted for me.
Dec 22: "Well, I'm fine with a Peers lynch or a TS lynch, and I have been for a while. I thought Peers needed more pressure until ABR pointed out that Peers had already claimed, so I switched to TS since she was another lynch I would have been fine with.'
Dec 28: "FOS Quagmire, FOS Shis. However, I still feel that Peers is scum. He has not done anything this game that has changed my mind on his alignment." Vote back on Peers.

I'm not to sure how to interpret the above regarding your alignment, but using your own reasoning, I find it strange that you are voting for Peers still, rather than Quagmire. It's as if you purposely want to ignore Quagmire, as much as you can get away with. I may be wrong, but that is the impression that you are projecting.

Anyway... let the above be a summary of your thoughts on Peers. It might come in handy later in the game,

[Toaster Strudel]

I'm not ignoring Quagmire. I feel that I have made my thoughts well known on him. But, if you want it again:
The role PM discussion was a time-waster even though he had no need to announce that at that time. Since he claims that he read his role PM, I haven't seen much of anything useful from him.

OK for now.

[Toaster Strudel]

I don't want to be part of the group he looped under won't believe him anyway..

Is there some danger to being part of that "group?" What are the consequences? What are you afraid of? Just curious.

[Toaster Strudel]

Hurry up, time is running out for you to save your buddy!

The fact that MoS-scum is attacking Peers in a last minute bid to try to save Quagmire's tutu is a hint that Peers might actually be town (though I wish he was acting town ) and that Quagmire might indeed be scum.

My meta on MoS in this game, is scum. Absolutely scum.

Yosarian (whom I also very much believe to be scum) is conveniently slipping out of the radar... way scummy folks... mark my words now in case I don't make it overnight... this is the SECOND time he makes himself scarce at a CRUCIAL time in the game.

[Toaster Strudel]

For posterity, here is what Yosarian2 has to say about Peers:

Nov 11: Yosarian meekly defends Peers against hasdagas.
Nov 15: Yosarian tells Peers: "Sounds like you're more worried about how your vote makes you look, instead of how you can use your vote to find scum."
Nov 20: Yosarian finds schis scummy for hopping on the Peers wagon: "...I don't like that you're apparently using that as one of your reason to join the large peers wagon. "
Nov 23: Yosarian warns Peers, when Peers explains he's playing à la ABR: "Um, except you know Albert does get lynched a lot, right?"
Dec 9: Answers questions that are addressed to Peers, and meekly attacks the person that wants answers directly from Peers.
Dec 18: In an attempt to cast aspersions on me, during my absence, and teaming up with hasdagas, "Might as well just lynch her now, rather then make the mod replace her so we can lynch the replacement."

And I believe that's it. It would be odd if he waltzed in now, and voted Peers. If he did, he'd have a lot of explaining to do. But he did say that push come to shove, he'd vote Quagmire, so that's in his favor. But then... that might be why he's lurking again, he doesn't want to have to keep his word and vote Quagmire...

What stands out here, to me anyway, other players might have different views, is that although Yosarian derails every wagon, and is too chicken to commit to a lynch, he seemed pretty gung-ho to get rid of me, when I wasn't around to defend myself.

Make of that what you may...

[Toaster Strudel]

A Peers lynch will be bad for the town.

Quad, MoS, and Setael are scum. No proof, just hunch. Unfortunately, my death will be the proof...

Going by gut only, and I hope I am being no fool, his reactions sounds awfully townie to me. I hate when that happens.

[Toaster Strudel]

Quad, MoS, and Setael are scum.

I will add that if he were scum, Peers would unlikely selectively cast aspersions on only the already-scummy players. It doesn't sound like he's trying to jerk us around with an agenda that will cause it to scratch our heads in puzzlement for days to come.

[Toaster Strudel]

A Peers lynch will be bad for the town. Quad, MoS, and Setael are scum. No proof, just hunch. Unfortunately, my death will be the proof...

Going by gut only, and I hope I am being no fool, his reactions sounds awfully townie to me. I hate when that happens.

but he still hasn't answered the question that has been posed to him by multiple different people.

Your question is: "Why do you find Quagmire scummy?" right?

Funny you should be so upset about Peers not answering question, when you seem to find little wrong with the same whem Quagmire does it.

Several times, earlier in the game, Quagmire CATEGORICALLY REFUSED to answer questions from ANY player.

But now, you, hasdagas, and MoS, have decided that Peers not answering a question about how scummy Quagmire is (do you get the irony here?) is worthy of adding, or keeping your vote/pressure on him.

Just pointing it out.

I think not lynching Quagmire would be a VERY LARGE STRATEGIC MISTAKE for this town.

[Toaster Strudel]

This is about the 10th time this game he's said "A Peers lynch will be bad for the town."

He's already said he's vanilla. What's his defense? He looks like a weak townie to me at this point.

The big difference, I see, at this point, between Peers and Quagmire is one of agenda. Peers, beyond saying that a Peers lynch "would be bad for the town" has not done anything particularly scummy has his wagon mounted. When he expressed suspicion, it was on a few players that are quite justifiably scummy.

Peers made no subtle analysis trying to distance from one player, buddy up to another... mixing up townie and scumbuddies as scum would... no. He just named the three most obvious scumbags on his wagon. That's a player that doesn't have an agenda.

Quagmire, on the other hand, has spent the whole game with an agenda. Not reading his PM is an agenda. Twinning MoS's policy vote (and again, I'd never played with Quagmire before, why would he policy vote me?) is an agenda. Refusing to answer questions is an agenda (though Peers is too lazy to answer one now, admittedly, not helping himself here). Note that Quagmire refused to asnwer the EXACT SAME kind of question, which is, "Do you think so-and-so is scummy?" Quagmire would not answer these questions either. Refusing to claim is an agenda. Voting Bookitty off-wagon is an agenda, allowing to switch his vote late on a wagon and make a difference. Maintaining this vote against all logic is an agenda.

What distinguishes the players on the Peers wagon from the players on the Quagmire wagon, is that the players on the Peers wagon appear to amplify anything that Peers do, and have a complete blind spot for Quagmire. Hasdagas, Setael, even Erg0, MoS, and Quagmire himself. Adn Zu_Faul to some extent.

[Toaster Strudel]

...and I forgot to mention Yosarian, who, has I pointed out earlier, has once again made himself scarce at a crucial moment.

Maybe he's going to have to pick between voting for a player who he knows is a townie, and an player who he knows is his buddy.

I want to watch this.

mod prod please: Yosarian

[Toaster Strudel]

I didn't say that I found little wrong with him not answering the questions asked to him, I just wasn't as forceful in wanting him to answer questions.

And why not? Why weren't you as forceful?

I still wanted him to answer questions, but it seemed like enough other people were asking him questions or telling him to answer the questions, unless I'm just remembering incorrectly. Did you find anyplace in my posts where I said that I didn't mind him not answering the questions?

The "enough other people" weren't enough to get Quagmire to actually answer the questions. That didn't bother you enough to add your voice to the chorus, or your vote for pressure?

No, you didn't say that you didn't minded Quagmire not answering the questions, mind the double negative. But as you surely know, "silence is acquiescence."

But you have, SEVERAL times, berated Peers from doing the same. And Erg0 (or was it Setael?) and MoS were also doing it. So... since other people were asking Peers to answer the question, why didn't YOU stop?

AND SERIOUSLY... why do you think Peers isn't saying WHY he finds Quagmire scummy? To cover up that he's scum? Why doesn't he start a whole case/rant against Quagmire? It would be in his own self-interest

regardless of his alignment

, so I believe that he is just a weak player, and an easy lynch, no matter why angle you want to take on it.

[Toaster Strudel]

I have categorically refused to answer other questions that people have posed to me because I have no opinion on them, and if I do have an opinion on them, I would have either said it already or would have answered your questions. I don't have the time, patience, or desire to look through every single one of the posts that people request me to find and then force myself to have an opinion on them.

Peers, meanwhile, has dodged the question, never explicitly stating that he doesn't want to answer it. It sounds like he's trying to grin, look nice, and change the topic. Not that there's really anything wrong with this at this juncture in the game, but

the two situations are completely different.[/b] Like I said, I'm only voting for peers to save my own ass and if still alive tomorrow will continue to pursue Bookitty.

That's because you are simply not playing the game, and otherwise stubborn as a mule - in contrast, Peers is a wishy-washy weak player, an easy lynch.

YOU are answering NO questions whatsoever.
PEERS is not answering in long detail the ONE question of why he finds YOU scummy.

[Toaster Strudel]

See, this is why I policy vote you. You are not helpful to the town.

That can't possibly be the reason. You policy-voted me without ever having played a game with me before.

[Toaster Strudel]

Vote Count:

7: Peers

(YagamiLight, Erg0, hasdgfas, Panzerjager, MoS, Quagmire, Setael)

6: Quagmire

(Battle Mage, JordanA24, TS, Bookitty, ABR, Peers)

3: Kscope

(Zu_Faul, Yosarian2, schismatized)

3: MoS

(Kscope, IH, Peers)

1: Setael

(Sir Tornado)

Currently Peers will be the deadline lynch

There are only two votes on MoS, Peers has moved his vote.

MOD: What time is the deadline?

Zu_Faul, Yosarian, schis, Kscope are conveniently hiding off-wagon, and not committing to either leading wagon. Why? Find out tomorrow.

[Toaster Strudel]

MoS-scum, hasdagas-scum, and Setael-scum are really upset with Peers because Peers did not treat hasdagas's question: "Why do you think Quagmire is scummy" like an essay question, Peers only answered that it's pretty obvious from reading the game, and that was pretty much IT.

They seem to think that categorically refusing to answer any question at all, from anyone, and refusing to play the game, like Quagmire has been doing for the past 54 pages, is more pro-town.

I cannot understand that reasoning - the only explanation is that MoS, hasdagas and Setael are scum. I am beginning to deeply regret having softened up on hasdagas.

[Toaster Strudel]

TS: I didn't say that refusing to answer questions wasn't scummy. If you think that I am just going to go against my instincts, you are sorely mistaken. Just because I don't think exactly the same as you and don't spend the vast majority of my time talking about how Quag is scum doesn't mean that I'm ignoring Quag's actions. I would just prefer a Peers lynch to a Quag lynch right now.

See, problem is, the "reasons" why you prefer a Peers lynch sound contrived and largely fabricated.

Don't worry, I'll probably be nightkilled, so that I won't be there tomorrow to bore you about how scummy Quag is. You can play with him until end game. Enjoy your win, scumbags!

Told ya hasdgfas was scum.

Yeah... will you ever forgive me? I can't believe I defended the guy. I soooo regret it now.

But hey. Maybe we'll kill him tomorrow, after 3 months and another 55 pages.

[Toaster Strudel]

I'm almost tempted to vote Quagmire just to make TS apologize for being so damned hung up on him all day

and then being wrong about him

after spending the entire day derailing the town into focusing on him. But since voting for someone who does not look like scum isn't really useful, I won't.

Sounds like you know this for a fact.

And who would know this for a fact? Scum, that's who.

[Toaster Strudel]

*sigh* This town sucks...

Lynching Peers is bad for the town because he's the freakin' Doctor. Get your votes off of him, willya?

Flavor?

*sigh*

I kinda read between the lines, from your tone, that you might have some sort of role, but you'd previously claimed vanilla, so that threw me off for a spin.

[Toaster Strudel]

I'm pleased that I'm

finally

getting my preferred Day 1 wagon for a change. I have a horrible feeling about what's going to happen at -1, though.

Remember this post from last week? This is exactly what I expected Peers to do, and it doesn't change my mind in the least.

If he's the Doctor... the scum will take care of him.

If Quagmire had claimed Doctor... even I would have unvoted Quagmire. If you can imagine that.

Who wants to lynch a claimed doctor on Day 1???

Is the alternative wagon, Quagmire, per chance, your scumbuddy? What other reason could there be to lynch the claimed Doctor?

[Toaster Strudel]

Why did he claim townie and THEN doc?

He claimed townie way early in the game. Now near deadline lynched, he switched to Doctor. It makes sense; in any even, even if he's lying, the scum will kill him tonight, so that a lynch on him is a complete waste.

We might as well let him draw the kill tonight, SO THAT THE SCUM DON'T GET LUCKY and KILL ANOTHER POWER ROLE.

Get it?

[Toaster Strudel]

BTW - A counterclaim would be disastrous for the town, so early in the game.

[Toaster Strudel]

I'm almost tempted to vote Quagmire just to make TS apologize for being so damned hung up on him all day

and then being wrong about him

after spending the entire day derailing the town into focusing on him. But since voting for someone who does not look like scum isn't really useful, I won't.

Sounds like you know this for a fact.

And who would know this for a fact? Scum, that's who.

You do realize that I set you up for that, right?

NO, I realize that you slipped up.

Let's lynch some scum.

unvote, vote: MoS

[Toaster Strudel]

unvote

Vote KScope

Wow! Your second post.

An unexplained vote.

Serial Killer much?

[Toaster Strudel]

Why are we mentioning a Serial Killer before we've had a night?

Who cares? His actions remind me of one. It's not like my saying that is going to lead to a SirTornado lynch... We really should kill you tomorrow.

Anyway... I won't miss Kscope. Maybe you'all are right... looks like he's given up, that's a good sign. But just in case:

Mod Prod: Kscope

[Toaster Strudel]

I'd like to thank hasdagas for hammering kscope without letting him claim. Kscope turned out to be a power role, when we could have instead tested the alignment of a totally useless vanilla claimant like Quagmire.

[Toaster Strudel]

Personally, I think if there's only four scum, then we've got a huge number of vanilla townies. Maybe two power roles at most. I think it's more likely that there's five scum and four power roles. I've been in a six-scum 19-player game, but that was two mafias in a no-cross-kill game, so I don't think we've got that many. Four or five makes the most sense...

Since you're in a mind to speculate, why do you think the name of the game is

NEGWLTWWWTKY

?

For the record, I thought each letter represented the first letter of a role in the game. For instance, there are 4 "W" which I thought to signify 4 werewolves. With

M

asons and

J

ailkeepers I have to reckon I supposed wrong.

I can't believe I was wrong about Yosarian and MoS. I'm going to shut up now.

[Toaster Strudel]

Peers is extremely dodgy and I don't buy his claim. However, if he's scum, as long as he's alive, he can't kill a claimed cop. If and when the cop dies, we might have to kill Peers. We have to keep a close eye on his voting pattern.

Players I'm willing to vote for today:

Panzer (who rushed to lynch Kscope in a way that prevented him to claim)
hasdagas (who rushed to hammer Kscope in a way that prevented him to claim)
zu_Faul
SirTornado
Setael

Players I'm not willing to vote for today:

ABR (I totally believe the claim)
Bookitty
Jordan
Erg0

[Toaster Strudel]

Doctors should not reveal their preferred target, in general. If they do, it reduces the chances that they will prevent a kill, because the scum will purposely avoid that target in the future.

[Toaster Strudel]

TS, don't you want to lynch Quagmire anymore? If no, why not?

It seems that the players have decided that Quagmire is essential to the game, and his contribution is so invaluable that the game might just fall apart if we lynch him, and we absolutely need him at end game. I decided that I will not say another word about Quagmire.

You all want to keep him forever, you can have him.

Players I'm willing to vote for today:
Panzer (who rushed to lynch Kscope in a way that prevented him to claim)
hasdagas (who rushed to hammer Kscope in a way that prevented him to claim)

Hypocrisy. You were calling for a lynch almost all of Day 1.

Of course, but we don't lynch without giving the player a chance to claim. Considering how wishy washy we've been with Quagmire, including players like hasdagas, it's ironic that we ended up speedlynching a player at the eleventh hour, without giving him an opportunity to claim.

[Toaster Strudel]

TS: If I and Panzer had done the same with less than 7 hours to go before deadline on someone who hadn't posted in the same amount of time as Kscope and had turned out to be mafia/werewolf when we killed them, would you be making such a big deal over the quick voting? I honestly had lost count of the votes. I thought he was at 7-8 rather than 9. Have you ever lost count of the votes on someone?

Kscope did not turn out to be mafia/werewolf. Your question is a red herring.

We were at deadline. It doesn't matter whether you actually hammered him.

What matters is that you brought him so far ahead of the competing wagon that even if he claimed Cop, there was not enough time to retrieve votes from his wagon, and instead lynch Quagmire, who'd merely claimed vanilla.

Remember how bloody careful you were trying to save Quagmire's tutu? You threw all caution to the wind to save his tutu

again

when it looked like he was going to be deadline lynched after all.

[Toaster Strudel]

Right,

Wrong.

...it doesn't matter because he already had more votes than Quagmire and we have no way of knowing whether or not enough people would have unvoted kscope in time for us to lynch Quag or anyone else.

There was no reason for you and Panzer to add an extra vote what would make it more difficult for us to start retracting vote in case he claimed, say, jailkeeper. He was already the leader, and he was going to be lynched. If he had time to claim jailkeeper, then maybe only 3 votes instead of 5 would have needed to be retracted for Quagmire to be lynched instead of Kscope.

I am especially irked because when I saw what the both of you were doing, I PM'd the mod to make sure he prodded Kscope pronto, in addition to leaving a bold mod note in the thread. He had to be notified that he was near being lynched.

But thanks too you, the mod came, counted the votes, and found Kscope already lynched.

Also, just because I disagree with you about Quagmire's actions doesn't mean I'm "trying to save him."

You've derailed his first wagon yesterday. You also derailed his second wagon, and cost us a power role to boot. So you haven't only tried to save him, you have been twice succesful in saving him.

[Toaster Strudel]

The answer to your red herring/rhetorical question is "Yes" - what you did was scummy no matter the outcome. AT BEST - it was painfully bad town play. At best.

[Toaster Strudel]

Peers,

Doctor,

also killed Night 1

He wasn't dayvigged. So, clerical error, obv.

[Toaster Strudel]

Vote: Erg0

Why?

[Toaster Strudel]

^^^^^

You guys are soooo right - Quagmire is so town, it makes my eyes bleed. He's so refreshingly straightforward, so guilelessly honest, so extremely solicitous, so hellbent on finding scum despite the rest of us trying to put sticks in the spokes of his wheels. He wouldn't, say, try to build a case (or be too lazy to) against one of the most logical and useful players in this game like Bookitty, I mean, himself! Noooooo...

He cannot possibly be scum! Perish the thought! Scum wouldn't do what he's doing, it's unheard of!

vote: Quagmire

Ooooops! I already broke my promise. Sarcasm aside... he's right about one thing... this game IS annoying. We've got scum right there staring us in the eye and jerking us around, and we won't lynch it. The word "Jester" comes to mind, it's so ridiculous.

You guys can spend another 50 pages trying to save his scummy behind if you want.

Have me prodded if you need me.

[Toaster Strudel]

If you think he's the Jester, why are you voting him?

I don't actually think he's a Jester. Just plain ole'scum.

[Toaster Strudel]

If you already made a case against Bookitty, why did you post this:

This game is annoying.

Maybe I'll put forth the effort to rebuild a case against bookitty, and maybe I won't. We'll see in the next few days.

[Toaster Strudel]

Notice the "re" in front of "build" TS.

Ah, yeah. Missed it.

Not directed at you and Setael in particular, in fact, more towards hasdagas and Panzer, whose hasty, poorly thought out votes cost us a power role, and deprived us of a Quagmire lynch.

[Toaster Strudel]

I think hasdfgas or Panzer would both make a good lynch today.

Indeed, but which one? Please choose.

[Toaster Strudel]

K

unvote, vote: Panzer

[Toaster Strudel]

Why am I being voted?

I don't know about Setael's reasons, but I am voting you for the very anti-town, slapdash, and ill-timed vote you put on Kscope. In itself, that's not a case, but you've been voting and accusing all over the place yesterday, and provided little reasoning. Your behavior seemed very random.

@vollkan - Amen! Welcome...

[Toaster Strudel]

BM has a point about IH. I could see myself voting for IH.

[Toaster Strudel]

TS I literally want to strangle you right now. You're attitude is insufferable. = |

I mean seriously.

WHY WON'T YOU ALL BE LOGICAL!? WHY MUST YOU MAKE BABIES CRY!?

I wasn't being illogical at all. OMGUS.

I would guess from the extensive scene that Peers died from either

A.a delayed kill
or
B.A mod mistake

Pretty obvious it's the second, so mentioning "A" is a little odd.

TS, what happens if Quag IS town? What will your thoughts be?

But now he goes back to Quag. I can't make up my mind about whether IH knows Quag's alignment or not, but I don't like it.

Then later, after I unvote Quagmire, and vote Panzer, IH's response was "Oh you've GOT to be kidding me." What??? He's not making any sense. Maybe I don't understand what he was trying to say.

@Setael: what about the intro posts? Please explain.

Anyway. I prefer Panzer.

[Toaster Strudel]

Go back and read IH's first long analysis post when he entered the game. The 2 players he pointed out the most scumminess on are jordan and panzer, so I find it unlikely he'd be a scum buddy there. Possible, but unlikely.

But were they really scummy, or was this early in the day, safe distancing? I don't know. Do you? What do you think?

[Toaster Strudel]

I'm interested to see whether TS felt the same, or was simply tagging along for the fun of a BW.

Yeah, we better not end up having a another 55 page day than ends up with the dumbest quicklynch in the history of the site. People are leaving the game because of our pathological indecision, and I can't blame them.

Look at what's happening... people are being jumped on for putting in a vote #1, people are being jumped on for even considering putting a vote #2!!! How on earth are we going to lynch anyone? I hope this day 2 isn't day 1 all over again. Let's COLLABORATE, GET OUR ACT TOGETHER and GET THE SHOW ON THE ROAD, please!

BM, why do you say I was tagging along for the bandwagon? There was no bandwagon, only your vote, and I didn't vote for IH. Are you misrepresenting me on purpose, or is it a mistake?

Zu_Faul is so scum. He has a bee in his bonnet about my OMGUS comment. Long hand, it's "OMG you suck" - as in, "OMG you suck Zu_faul" - I'm not suggesting that there's an OMGUS vote, because I wasn't voting for Zu_Faul and he wasn't voting for me. His vote is rubbish but at least it helps the game MOVE ALONG. For this he ougth to be commended.

[Toaster Strudel]

Replace me, I have zero interest in catching up and i'm not a fan of 50 page days

Funny you should say that, because looking at the content and rythm of your posts, it looks like you don't need any catching up, because you've been following the game all along.

[Toaster Strudel]

Why is erg0 high on your list? Just for his Peers suspicion, or do you have other reasons?

What do you think of Panzer and Jordan? And IH?

I believe ABR is a mason.

ABR, can you please answer these questions? Your opinion is important, because since you are probably a mason, it is the opinion with the least possible taint at the moment.

[Toaster Strudel]

I just spent 15 minutes going over Erg0's posts and paranoid as I am, I'm not even seeing the smallest smidgen of a case. Erg0 makes total, 100%, unassailable sense.

[Toaster Strudel]

This is not happening at all. Quit skewing the facts. Since the day has started you've switched your vote around 5 times.

WHOA!!! Around 5 times? TWICE.

You aren't even attempting to make a case, except on Quag, and you then switched your vote two posts later.

Yeah, and who is making cases right now? Panzer who just flaked? ABR who decided for unfathomable reasons that Erg0 is scum??? Zu_faul, who is, in my book, potential scum and is voting for me anyway? Who? Show me some good cases. ABR who is asking OTHER FREAKIN PEOPLE to make his cases??????? My case on Quag is a total waste of time. I wasted 55 pages on Day 1, can you imagine my frustration? Nobody wants to lynch anyone.

I also am dissapointed you are ignoring all attempts to start discussion to chide the town for something they haven't even done yet.

Right, I'm not discussing enough? I haven't posted enough in this game??? Something the town hasn't done yet??? Were you there yesterday??? Argh!

Oh please yes, put me out of my misery. Let me help you.

vote: TS

[Toaster Strudel]

What Quag did was dreadful, but lynching Howehim for it at this point (after he declared his alignment) is just a pointless policy lynch (if Quag had refused to declare alignment, it wouldn't be so pointless imo).

Hahahaha.

I just have to point this out because it's so funny.

Are you saying that Quagmire needed to declare his alignment, as in "I'm town!" or "I'm scum!"?

Pretty self-evident that regardless of his ACTUAL alignment, his declaration would be "I'm town!"

Why would he have refused to "claim his alignment" when the only viable option is "town?"

[Toaster Strudel]

So how does this excuse you from not making a case yourself? Or even another case?

I think I've made more cases, and longer cases, than anyone in this game. What game are you playing, IH? What planet are you from? You're accusing me of HIDING from COMMITTING TOO MUCH?????? Argh! Argh! Who is more IN YOUR FACE COMMITTING than me??? Nobody, that's who.

unvote

yeah Bookitty you're right.

Question is, is IH scum, or is he town out to lunch?

[Toaster Strudel]

Also, zu is beginning to concern me - I am surprised someone has been allowed to actively lurk for 30 pages and come under no pressure.

Absolutely, I am glad you've seen this, too. Zu_Faul pinged by scumdar, and I think ABR's (or someone else?) but that's it.

[Toaster Strudel]

Quite a bit was said about Quagmire regarding the policy vote issue, that

preceded

the reading the role PM drama.

Your statement that "nobody said anything about him" is therefore misleading.

[Toaster Strudel]

My personal favorite lurker is Sir Tornado.

[Toaster Strudel]

Not feeling a Jordan lynch.

[Toaster Strudel]

Uber-scummy all day yesterday, culminating in an uber-suspicious deadline vote.

vote: hasdagas

[Toaster Strudel]

oh shit I forgot about this game.

Can you contribute something rather than mindless bandwagoning and saying that you forgot about this game?

Correction. He's not even contributing mindless bandwagoning.

[Toaster Strudel]

vote: hasd

Do you have a PR or a you scum?

Same question to Sir Tornado.

[Toaster Strudel]

SirTornado has voted only twice. Both posts consisted solely of votes. That's why I ask.

[Toaster Strudel]

Let me explain the difference between chatting, and playing mafia.

When chatting, we can say all the nonsense we like, or even say nothing, the conversation doesn't need to go anywhere. There's no goal.

In mafia, we try to lynch people. You have to think of this as a goal. A goal best accomplished before senility sets in, or some players begin to die off of old age, and Day 2 stretches over 724342389 pages, and we have to recruit replacements among our grandchildren, or force them to replace in our wills.

Just sayin' - for those that are unclear on the concept. Maybe a reminder is helpful.

Where's my keyboard? What IS a keyboard? Oh yeah, there it is, in the microwave. Too many wrenches in the gravy, Matilda. Matilda? Horror! The Germans are coming, the Germans are coming! Quick! Put the the telephone in the bathtub!

[Toaster Strudel]

I cant remember anything happening this game period.

Even worse, nothing is happening RIGHT NOW.

[Toaster Strudel]

Hey. If you guys are bored. I have an idea to make something happen.

[Toaster Strudel]

Ooooh, a bite!

I even have TWO ideas.

The first one is to get 4 people to vote for me. When that happens, I'll be lynched! So, that's one thing that will happen. Then, we got to night, and the scum can pick one of us to kill. And then... yes there is more... we can waste another 50 pages doing nothing, but at least I won't be there.

My second idea, and that one takes a bit more work, is to get 5 people to vote for hasdagas. The disadvantage of this option, in addition to requiring one more vote, is that I will be irritating you during all of Day 3's 50 pages. The advantage is that the scum will have one less buddy to consult, so that they might send in their choice faster, resulting in a shorter night.

[Toaster Strudel]

Or, possibly, we could look for something besides your false dilemma and lynch someone like zu_faul or jordan, both of which have also been scummy. This isn't a one or the other situation, TS, no matter whether you want it to be or not. There are lots of people still alive, and, even if I were scum, you still would want to look for the others.

Despite vollkan's recent analysis I'm not warming to Jordan as scum. Zu_Faul, maybe. Panzer... Sir Tornado... Setael is on my to-lynch list but I forgot why...

Hasdagas, on the other hand... there are plenty of good reasons to lynch Hasdagas. Defending Quagmire and deadline lynching a power role come to mind.

[Toaster Strudel]

I'll do up another analysis shortly. Zu_faul seems like a good starting point.

Quick one, too. Do Sir Tornado for hors d'oeuvres.

Oh please do hasdagas. Please please please pretty please.

[Toaster Strudel]

[...] even if I were scum, you still would want to look for

the others

.

Hey anyone caught that?

We should still want to look for the OTHER scum.

Not just hasdagasscum. You know. He's not the only scum. There are other scum, and we should look for these others, too.

[Toaster Strudel]

[...]

even if I were scum, you still would want to look for

the others

.

Hey anyone caught that?

We should still want to look for the OTHER scum.

Not just hasdagasscum. You know. He's not the only scum. There are other scum, and we should look for these others, too.

what are you trying to say here?

Nuthin'.

Just pointing out what YOU said.

[Toaster Strudel]

FoS: Toaster Strudel

for his incredibly opportunistic attempt to redirect suspicion to hasdgfas. hasdgfas isn't scum.

Hasdagas practically just confessed.

He tripped on his semantic shoelaces.

[Toaster Strudel]

I know what perspective tells look like. That isn't one of them.

Please explain.

[Toaster Strudel]

I know what you mean, grammatically speaking, and I agree with you.

But why would he want us to look for "others," when we have a live one, scuh as himself *if* he were scum? We can always look for "others" later.

And it's very weird for hasdagas, who is under less vote pressure than I am at the moment, to steer us in the direction of "other scum." Even if he started his sentence with "IF I were scum."

It's a very odd suggestion.

[Toaster Strudel]

I'm ... astonished. Really. I thought you were a good player.

How many good solid cases have YOU made?

[Toaster Strudel]

TS: at the moment, I don't think you're scum. BUT. You were saying that it would be you or me today, and I don't agree with that assessment. You didn't even mention

anything

about anyone else in your post. You were like "we can either get more people to vote for me, or for hasdgfas." I was trying to point out how that was bad for the town, no matter my alignment

You lack a sense of humor if you think I'm seriously suggesting that only you or I should be lynched today.

I did accomplish the goal of getting the game moving, didn't I? No one has said anything worthy of notice for days. You weren't tempted to take advantage of the break, stick your neck out, and look for that "other scum?"

But say, you are sounding a little panicky. Just a wee bit though.

[Toaster Strudel]

Excellent.

In that case, you won't mind telling me precisely what I missed that was so significant?

Hasd has not cast a vote or FoS since post 73 - nor has he pushed any cases.

That's part of what's so significant.

Explain.

[Toaster Strudel]

^^^^
What Goofball said. Genius. Sheer Genius. I wish I would have posted it myself.

[Toaster Strudel]

What kind of role do you think would target a claimed doctor?
(Quag was my second choice, btw. It was a really tough decision)

What kind of role would target a claimed doctor?

SCUM would be my #1 choice.
Serial Killer my #2 choice.

Certainly not a cop, or a tracker, or anything else I can thinjk of, because they would know that it's a totally wasted investigation. Unless it's Night 5 and the claimed Doctor is still alive, there is no reason.

Hasdagas, did you sent in the kill, and now you're afraid you've been tracked or something, so that you have cover up the real manner with which you targeted Peers?

If Quagmire was a close second choice to Peers, then it was a no-brainer, Quagmire should have been your only choice. Peers wasn't an option.

That's why I don't believe it, and you don't even need to claim.

Vote stays.

[Toaster Strudel]

if Hasd was scum and had targeted Peers, why would he push back against the imminent lynch of Peers?

Yesterday he KNEW that Peers was town?

According to his own statements (which may or may not be true) Hasd believed Peers was likely immune to NKs. I've never seen a NK-immune doctor personally, but I suppose it's possible.

That would be a crazy role, that would mean that a claimed cop could breeze his way to endgame. Now, there might be a few other reasons why the scum would NOT target the doctor. They did target the doctor after all, but if they hadn't, you could say that two scum groups counted on the other group to get rid of the Doctor, or that there was a more dangerous individual they wanted to be rid of, or thinking that a doctor that survives the night would be an easy lynch the next day anyway. Those would be poor choices, but not impossible.

What is interesting is that Hasd immediately jumped to the almost-conclusion that Peers was NK-immune. MY first thought when I saw Peers alive was that the scum were idiots, unless they wanted to WIFOM us into lynching the Doctor. I sure didn't think the Doctor might have been Doc-protected; nor did I consider that a Doctor might be NK-immune, not for an instant. What were YOUR first thoughts?

If you thought we had bungling scum instead of a NK-immune Doctor, then you have to believe that Hasd is scum that was puzzled by his DIRECT OBSERVATION that Peers had survived the NK target.

But if that's the case, then Hasd-scum would be more likely to push for Peers' lynch, not to defend him.

Not sure why that might be the case, perhaps I do not understand the question.

I know some of you don't buy into Hasd's semantic slip, but when you put everything in context, it fits.

[Toaster Strudel]

town role, TS, because I'm not scum.

Sorry, there is no town role that would even consider targeting a Day 1 Doctor claim, for a second.

Especially when the alternative was a controversial player like Quagmire.

[Toaster Strudel]

More importantly, Setael, what is your opinion on Hasd's claim that he targeted Peers instead of Quagmire last night?

[Toaster Strudel]

One could speculate that with Hasd's NK failing, Hasd obtained some knowledge about Peers and the result of a night action, and he thought he could use this information to fake an information role.

Of course, it's a half-baked plan, because he can't justify why he would have targeted Peers as a townie, instead of Quagmire for instance.

[Toaster Strudel]

And another thing... a townie with an information role wouldn't rush to claim, when not even halfway to a lynch. Only a scum looking forward to setting his plan into motion, thinking it's a clever one.

But that's psychology, not fact.

[Toaster Strudel]

But the action in fact did succeed, and apparently was just the result of a mod error and not a failed night action... so what information would Hasd have received, since the kill did in fact take place?

I'm delighted to answer this question.

It's in the timing.

This what Hasd said early on Day2,

BEFORE

the mod mistake was uncovered.

"I believe peers' claim more today than i did yesterday."

WHY? Because he's un-NK'able Doctor? Shouldn't Has believe it LESS? Very strange, and I have a hunch that Hasd doesn't know what to do with what he knows at this point.

"Either Peers is NK immune or a town vig tried to kill him or, what I find most likely, scum tried to kill him."

Troubled semantics again.

Either Peers is NK-immune *or* scum tried to kill him.

THink about it. Hasd cannot come right out and say, "scum MUST have tried to kill him so he might be NK-immune". That's giving himself away. Therefore, he twists the normal sentence around to disguise that he knows for a fact that Peers was targeted by his scumgroup and the NK failed.

'However, I would like to know who Peers protected last night."

- Hasd is very curious about what the heck went wrong the previous night.

"I know one of two things. Either he's NK immune or someone tried to kill him. "

Again. That "or" should be an "and" - he doesn't know one of two things. He knows two things. (1) Someone tried to kill Peers AND (2) therefore Peers must be NK-immune. That's what he is REALLY saying, but he can't word it in the proper manner, it would mean that Hasd is scum. Hence another twisted sentence.

[Toaster Strudel]

I don't even want a claim from hasdagas.

Hasdagas has NO pro-town reason to target Peers in any capacity. None.

Hasdagas can claim God, my vote stays on him. There is still no reason to target the Doctor. Not a single reason. If saying the truth, Peers was a dead man walking. Under no circumstance is he an appropriate town night target, the night following his claim.

Hasdagas is probably nervous that he might have been tracked doing the nightkill, he's trying to explain it away, he realizes he betrayed his knowledge that Peers had resisted the NK. Or he wants to use the "information" he had about Peer's temporary un-NK'ability to fake an investigative role. But it can only be a fake.

There is one remotely possible role, in fact, now that I think about it. A very, very specific one, that's not even in the mafiawiki, and that I've never seen in any game, and might not even exist. However, if that theoretical role was indeed Hasdagas', then Hasdagas would have had to do something very particular today, that he hasn't done, and he has said some things that go against him having that role. This is a <1% chance.

[Toaster Strudel]

If they are alive, I kill them, if they're dead, I bring them back to life. Last night, it took me a long while to decide whether to target Peers or Quag, because I would have been targeting each for a different reason.

Hasdagas' scenario would mean that the scum did NOT target the Doctor. The vig wouldn't kill the Doctor. The SK doesn't need to kill the Doctor, if there is an SK, he's capable of avoiding being investigated. But the scum has to kill the doctor. Bizarre.

Why did Hasdagas bring up that Peers might have been NK-immune, several times? He would have known this to be impossible.

[Toaster Strudel]

town role, TS, because I'm not scum.

Sorry, there is no town role that would even consider targeting a Day 1 Doctor claim, for a second.

Especially when the alternative was a controversial player like Quagmire.

Um, watcher? Is there a dead watcher already or are you being purposefully dense?

Watchers know who their night choice targeted. I am not aware of a role where, contrary to a Watcher, a player would know who targeted their night choice.

[Toaster Strudel]

We'd be missing a scum kill and have two extra townie kills, which I don't buy.

I'm not sure I get this. Can you elaborate?

[Toaster Strudel]

So the scum preferred to kill Yos2 and MoS and didn't even try to kill an un-protected Doctor? Call me baffled.

[Toaster Strudel]

The only thing saving Hasdagas' bovine behind is the breadcrumb.

unvote, vote: zu_faul

[Toaster Strudel]

If they are alive, I kill them, if they're dead, I bring them back to life. Last night, it took me a long while to decide whether to target Peers or Quag, because I would have been targeting each for a different reason.

Hasdagas' scenario would mean that the scum did NOT target the Doctor. The vig wouldn't kill the Doctor. The SK doesn't need to kill the Doctor,

if there is an SK, he's capable of avoiding being investigated

. But the scum has to kill the doctor. Bizarre.

(emphasis added)

How do you know that? Very interesting that TS knows something about SK powers. Vote stays obv.
[Also was has being able to avoid being investigated got to do with not killing the doc?]

Yeah, avoiding being investigated by LURKING.

Yep, the power of lurking.

Clearly I know something the rest of you don't.

[/sarcasm]

[Toaster Strudel]

These colors seriously hurt my head.

I don't know how long it took vollkan to make his case, and answer zu_faul's rebuttal. But I'm sure, as someone that bothers making cases (you wouldn't know), that it took a great deal of time.

After reading vollkan's counter-argument, why did find it worth your time to make such a contentless post?

Is it for the sake of pretending to participate? Or it is to jump on vollkan ASAP, and belittle him, before someone comes along and starts up a tide of players agreeing with its content?

Panzer, I want an ANSWER. Respond.

[Toaster Strudel]

SCUMPUTER

8: Kscope (Zu_Faul**, Yosarian2***, schismatized, MoS***, TS, ABR, Peers*, Setael)

Yos was town. MoS was town. I'm town. ABR is a Mason. Peers was town.
That leaves us with one of Zu-Faul, Setael, or schismatized being scum. = 0.33 point each

===================
7: Peers (YagamiLight, Erg0, hasdgfas, Panzerjager, MoS, Quagmire, Setael)
6: Quagmire (Battle Mage, JordanA24, TS, Bookitty, ABR, Peers)
3: Kscope (Zu_Faul, Yosarian2, schismatized)
5. 3: MoS (Kscope, IH, Peers)
1: Setael (Sir Tornado)

On the Quagmire wagon, TS, ABR and Peers being town,
One of BM, Jordan, and Bookitty is scum. = 0.33 point each

===================
8: Quagmire (Panzerjager, ABR, schismatized, Elmo/IH, Toaster Strudel, Battle Mage, Peers, Kscope)

ABR is a mason, TS is town, Peers is town, Kscope is town.
Scum on that wagon: At least one of Panzer, schis, Elmo/IH, BattleMage = 0.25 point each

===================
7: Sikario8 (Neo-Viper9/Bookitty, Yosarian, Sir Tornado, Elmo/IH, Zu_Faul, Kscope, ABR)

ABR, Kscope, Yosarian,are town.
Scum possibilities: Bookitty, SirTornado, IH, Zu_Faul = 0.25 each

===================

Sum of scum possibilities

BattleMage 0.33 + 0.25 = 0.58
Bookitty 0.33 + 0.25 = 0.58
Zu-Faul 0.33 + 0.25 = 0.58
schismatized 0.25 + 0.33 = 0.58
Elmo/IH 0.25 + 0.25 = 0.50
Setael 0.33 = 0.33
Jordan 0.33 = 0.33
Panzer 0.25 = 0.25
Sir Tornado 0.25 = 0.25

===================

Early possible distancing votes:
Panzer>>>BM
Bookitty>>>BM

===================
BM votes: ABR(mason), vollkan, IH***, TS(town), Hasdagas(presumed town), Peers(town), Bookitty***
Bookitty votes: Hasdagas (presumed town), BM***, Sikario8
Zu_Faul votes: TS(town), Sikario8, Bookitty***, Kscope(town), ABR(mason), vollkan, IH***

===================
TOP SCUMPUTER CANDIDATES - OUTPUT

1. Battle Mage
2. Bookitty
3. IH
4. schismatized
5. Panzer
6. Zu_Faul

unvote, vote: Battle Mage

[Toaster Strudel]

If you can't say what you were trying to say in a post that takes less than one vertical screen, it probably isn't important enough for me to read.

Short version for you.

"It might not be such a bad idea to lynch BattleMage"

[Toaster Strudel]

Pushing town lynches and avoiding scumbuddy lynches are nearly universal scumtells. Not particularly reliable ones, but they do apply to everyone.

The higher the number of bandwagons, the more reliable it becomes. I reckon it's not perfect, but sometimes it brings some players into the spotlight that would go unnoticed on behavior alone. Battle Mage and Bookitty, IH, schis... if you look at behavior, none really stands out. But looking at voting patterns, they certainly do.

Just another approach. Not perfect, not the only one. A different way to analyze the data.

Some people are better than others at deception and trickery, but the way the scumbags coordinates their votes is harder to hide. I try to look at that, AND behavior.

[Toaster Strudel]

I've got a weird gut feeling Spambot is scum. No reasoning will be provided until he gives some.

Hmmm, things are getting interesting, suddenly. Spambot is SirT's replacement, after all.

[Toaster Strudel]

BM is posting everywhere but this game.

Is he purposely lurking because he's town, or scum?

[Toaster Strudel]

So wait, what happened to Quag being certain scum then? I know that you have given up on bandwagoning him, but that surely doesn't change your opinions on him being scum, right?

I dunno... vollkan seems to be scumhunting, which Quagmire certainly was not. I'm reserving judgment for now.

The bandwagon vote analysis does not include subjective observations, for instance on Quagmire's behavior.

[Toaster Strudel]

Jordan didn't ask you if lurking is "anti-town". He asked you if it is "scummy". We all know lurking is anti-town. We want to know why it is scummy.

For the record, I don't consider the above to be "scum-hunting" but rather a "weak conversation generator."

[Toaster Strudel]

1.Quit being so subtle.

I can't help it. It comes naturally.

I hope you realize that the reason why I am voting for BM has been outlined in another post, and that the two minor sentences you are hung up on are nothing more than a cherry on the sundae.

[Toaster Strudel]

Hey. Wait a minute... no one has ever called me subtle before.

Could it be... could it be...

SarCaSm???

[Toaster Strudel]

Hey kids you can have this discussion about mafia theory in MD. You're putting everyone to sleep.

In this thread we discuss who is scum in

this game

.

This is my shortlist:
1. Battle Mage
2. Bookitty
3. IH
4. schismatized
5. Panzer
6. Zu_Faul

And I think my shortlist happens to overlap with other lynch candidates, BM, schis and Panzer for instance. Feel free to add any player I might have overlooked and explain your reasoning.

Let's get back to discussing today's lynch.

[Toaster Strudel]

Let's get back to discussing today's lynch.

My vote is on your 6th. It could easily go on your 1st. I haven't yet reviewed the other members of your rogue's gallery.

You've done a lot of analyzes. We need input from a greater variety of players.

Any volunteers?

[Toaster Strudel]

I'd be happy with a lynch of most of those, but I need to look closer at Bookitty to see why you find her scummy.

Are you volunteering to to a Bookitty PBPA or some other kind of look over?

Bear in mind that she made my list on account of her voting behavior, not on the content of her posts.

But maybe you'll see something. I look forward to your contribution.

[Toaster Strudel]

Kill me. I dare you. I call spambot.

Schis. I hope you don't mind me asking you a question.

How close to being lynched are you?

Brilliant question.

How close to being lynched are you?

[Toaster Strudel]

@ Schis.

im not scum.

Ok.

Vote: schismatized

Let me get this straight. Is this the Spambot post that is a bee in your bonnet?

Is it correct that you have only one vote?

Is it correct that this single vote is Spambot's?

Is it correct that before his recent vote of you, Spambot didn't even suspect you?

Is it correct that you are now challenging Spambot to "kill" you?

Is it correct that, since he's already voting you, Spambot is quite unlikely to hammer you?

Just making sure I've got the facts.

[Toaster Strudel]

vollkan, quick job for you.

Mert, and YagamiLight. But both incarnations said very little, I suggest that you look at how other players have interacted with them.

I have a vague recall of Mert getting early attention from other players, and finding YagamiLight scummy. I haven't pursued it because the evidence is so scant, but we shouldn't forget about them.

[Toaster Strudel]

Who are the mostly cleared players and why are they mostly cleared?

Wow, hey, HERE's a scummy post!

Special for today only...

Day Investigate: Spambot

- Woot!

[Toaster Strudel]

While I wait for results, can you give us a short list of players you most suspect and why, since you might die today?

[Toaster Strudel]

When I'm dead...

You think you're going to die?

[Toaster Strudel]

When I'm dead...

You think you're going to die?

Probably at some point.

At the end of this day, maybe? The last minute distancing is very transparent.

[Toaster Strudel]

You guys will know exactly what I was thinking and can choose to use it or not.

Which is what? Can you sum up the important bits we should remember?

[Toaster Strudel]

You guys will know exactly what I was thinking and can choose to use it or not.

Which is what? Can you sum up the important bits we should remember?

The post that's on the very last page.

Oh please make a short summary.

[Toaster Strudel]

Where's BM in that list?

[Toaster Strudel]

Where's BM in that list?

Neutral. All I remember from him was a "Hi Spambot" post and that's it.

Can you check? It's important.

[Toaster Strudel]

vollkan is tainted by his previous incarnation, Quagmire. However, he's trying. There are players that I find more scummy, and BM comes to mind. The rest have already been listed.

[Toaster Strudel]

Sooner or later, we're going to have to lynch somebody.

I'm all for BM or schis. There are other fine choices too, suggested by others that are worth considering.

Let's get this show on the road, and get the job done. That means talking and voting.

[Toaster Strudel]

has, I think on page 80 we're past voting people because they're useless, though I understand your sentiment.

Time to vote to lynch. Otherwise we're just stalling. If you think BM is a better lynch, or someone else, you gotta vote them.

It's... page... 80... and... only... day... 2.

[Toaster Strudel]

We can give you both.

unvote, vote: schismatized

[Toaster Strudel]

I knew I shouldn't have posted, there goes my wagon.

If you want to see a BM lynch, you ought to push it a little harder than schis is pushing his own wagon.

But alright. I can't stand to see you cry.

unvote, vote: Battle Mage

[Toaster Strudel]

^^^ my post, I forgot to change my costume.

[Toaster Strudel]

We're lynching schizmatized today and vollkan tomorrow. Voluntary cooperation is mandatory.

Good idea, but let's have BM as the competing wagon for today.

Think of it as a sporting event. We need two teams.

[Toaster Strudel]

Alas there is no such thing as an easy lynch in this game.

The joke here is that we can't even lynch Battle Mage, or schis, who does nothing but "don't shoot me!" posts lately.

Aren't we something like 30 pages into Day 2 and there is no clear wagon yet???

[Toaster Strudel]

Let's lynch BM. He's all over the site, but he's not posting here. Looks like lurking on purpose to me.

DIE SCUM DIE

[Toaster Strudel]

I am becoming really irritated with Battle Mage. I see him in other games, making good comments, participating, etc.

Here, he's nothing but purposely lurking scum.

[Toaster Strudel]

Trust me, Battle Mage IS around, and he IS watching.

Take him to lynch minus 2 or 3 and I guarantee you he'll show up.

[Toaster Strudel]

Vote for Battle Mage and all will be forgiven.

[Toaster Strudel]

What are we waiting for? Let's get the job done. Let's lynch BM.

[Toaster Strudel]

wow, totally forgot this game was still going. 0.o
I'll try and give the thread a glance over tonight or tomorrow.

BM

You're at L-3. Make it good.

[Toaster Strudel]

Vollkan, give us your opinion on Battle Mage vs Schismatized.

...and consider voting for one or the other. That would be nice.

[Toaster Strudel]

Ok, i'm on Page 15. Should i post analysis as i go, or can you lynch-happy kids wait for me to read the whole thread?

BM

Page 15? You have to re-read? Die scum die.

vollkan: Why don't you vote for schis? That would put both BM ans schis at 5 votes, both at lynch-3.

It will be interesting to see what will happen next.

[Toaster Strudel]

It would help unfreeze the game. Besides, we might end up lynching zu_faul at the end of the day anyway. I agree that he is a good choice.

[Toaster Strudel]

Besides, we might end up lynching zu_faul at the end of the day anyway. I agree that he is a good choice.

Why should I be that?
What is your case against BM? Why are you wanting to quicklynch him, when he may still provide input?

Also, where is Bookitty? I'm waiting for anything from BM or shis.

You might wait a while before BM contributes anything of substance, or that inspires townieness. I do believe his lurking to be intentional. This is a long, slow game. Lurking a a good strategy for vote-attracting players like BM to survive in the long-haul. I don't want to QUICK-lynch him, but I would like to see him lynched, yes.

The same applies to Bookitty. I believe Bookitty would make a good lynch for the same reasons.

As for schis - I don't know what's up with him. He's playing really weird.

You're also a contender, zu_faul, but since your contribution is reasonable, you're top my top candidate.

[Toaster Strudel]

unvote

I no longer feel good about a BM vote.

vote: erg0

Looks like scum hiding off-wagon, but hey. Maybe I'm wrong.

[Toaster Strudel]

...trolled?

Anyway... what do you think about Setael's vote for erg0 under the current circumstances?

I agree that vollkan is indeed playing as usual.

I also agree wholeheartedly with your point that BM needs no catching up from page 1.

(oops wrong costume)

[Toaster Strudel]

Please die.

I can help.

unvote, vote: schismatized

[Toaster Strudel]

A fresh votecount would be nice!

[Toaster Strudel]

i dont recall Schis voting for himself..

I don't either, but he might as well.

[Toaster Strudel]

Because I think schis is town, rather than a modkill, I'd like to request he be replaced.

PLEASE ANSWER THIS QUESTION:

Why do you think schis is pro-town?

I'd understand if you say that it's difficult to pin down his alignment, because his contribution to this game amounts to a heap of refuse, but how can you possibly say that you think he's "town?"

My personal opinion is that his kind of garbage posting is characteristic of scum, not town, but I would understand if someone concluded that it's a null-tell. But a TOWN-tell??? This deserves an explanation.

When I put that together with your tendency to hide off-wagon, it makes me suspicious of you, Setael.

[Toaster Strudel]

I'd rather have Schis modkilled than lynched.

I don't care if he's hanged, crucified, or drawn and quartered, either.

[Toaster Strudel]

schis' last few posts sound a lot like bored, apathetic town. While this is my least favorite kind of townie, it's still likely a townie. i don't see scum drawing this kind of negative attention to themselves, and when townies do it, it makes it easy for scum to get them lynched. Scum is unlikely to be the first one to jump on it (TS took that upon herself) but scum IS likely to hide behind a townie doing it (that'd be zu_faul). So that's where my vote is going.

Yes, but this is schis we're talking about, not a normal player.

I'd vote for him if only I wasn't voting for him already. I only have one vote, dang it.

I prefer a modkill because then we could lynch BM, that would be a great day.

[Toaster Strudel]

We're 15, right? That means we need two more votes.

[Toaster Strudel]

Flameaxe and schis killed the game.

[Toaster Strudel]

ok when I'm dead you can bet your ass that some scum are on my easy wagon. just an fyi.

Yeah. And whose fault is it that your wagon is "easy?"

Is it my fault?
Is it Bush's fault?
Is id the Easter Bunny's fault?

Didn't think so.

Are you claiming? No.
Are you looking for scum? No.
Are you pro-actively townie? No.

[Toaster Strudel]

I'd be shocked if schis is scum?

I wouldn't be shocked at all. In fact, the slowness supports it.

[Toaster Strudel]

I checked out schis's profile, and this is the only game he's in. If he is in only one game, and this is the nature of his participation... well everyone can draw their own conlusion as to his possible alignment.

[Toaster Strudel]

He's at lynch minus 2, so there is light at the end of the tunnel.

[Toaster Strudel]

I agree with you, vollkan, it's unfortunate that Bookitty felt like she ahd to leave, and that we've been double pleagued by Quagmire AND schis. Really bad luck.

I say schis should claim or die at this point. Makes sense?

[Toaster Strudel]

But we CAN wait for the replacement or modkill the mod has said is coming.

Where???

[Toaster Strudel]

Schis is playing WIFOM games and trying to convince us he's too scummy/retarded to actually be scum. It's bullshit and he needs to die.

Agreed, 100%.

Lynching schis is not anti-town, or pro-town. It is pro-GAME.

Let me answer the questions:

1)Do you think schis is scum, or do you just want him out of the game?

Yes, I think he's is scum, like Spambot says, "too retarded to be scum."

2)What info do we gain from his lynch?

Quite a bit if he is scum, nothing if he's town.

3)If he comes up town, do you think you should be suspected for pushing such an easy wagon, or do you think you should all be let off the hook because he was annoying?

He is less annoying than Quagmire, but he is scummy. What he is doing is scummy. Schis has been playing mafia for a very long time. I think he's trying the retarded scum strategy. It's still scum and we still should lynch him.

[Toaster Strudel]

Theres no grounds for replacing me. kill or be killed.

You are at lynch minus one, and you have neglected to claim, scumbag.

Hammer please?

[Toaster Strudel]

If he was pro-town, he would claim.

If he was a pro-town power role, he would PLAY the game.

I doubt he's a power role, if he's town at all.

He has not asked to be replaced. No replacement is coming.

[Toaster Strudel]

Alright, now we can be certain, this is no town power role, this is scum.

[Toaster Strudel]

Battle Mage has settled back into lurking mode.

[Toaster Strudel]

Battle Mage has settled back into lurking mode.

Actually, ive had a lot on, what with 2 new modded games starting, significant analysis requirements in other games, and family staying for the weekend. Dont worry, this game is next on my read list.

Hammer schis now, read later.

[Toaster Strudel]

BM, you may not follow me, but there are many other players on this wagon that are wiser than myself. Maybe you should follow them, if Schis's most recent post hasn't convinced you (it should).

This is the first time I'm seeing you too chicken to hammer, BM... did you skip breakfast?

[Toaster Strudel]

The problem with his agruement..is he sucks at mafia so he always comes off as a fouled mouthed teenager that his clearly everyone else's mental midget.

Is this a reason to assume he's town?

He's a lynch minus one and he's not claiming. Enough nonsense already. He's a mental midget, yes, but he got a scum role in this game. He's behaving like a scum mental midget, not a town mental midget.

Not that there's anything wrong with being a mental midget.

[Toaster Strudel]

Amen! At last. Thanks Erg0. I hope we don't have to deal with anymore non-playing trolls for the rest of the game.

[Toaster Strudel]

Bad voting? I don't think so. This was claim or die. Schis chose to die.

[Toaster Strudel]

Let me guess, it's going to be Flameaxe's turn trolling the game tomorrow...

[Toaster Strudel]

Getting rid of trolls in this game is like Whack-A-Mole.

The second we hammer one off, another mole rears its ugly head.

[Toaster Strudel]

Funny enough, mafia is not about trollhunting, its about scumhunting. Your confusion in this topic doesn't surprise me. though.

Funny enough, mafia is not about trolling. Your confusion in this topic doesn't surprise me.

[Toaster Strudel]

Funny enough, mafia is not about trollhunting, its about scumhunting. Your confusion in this topic doesn't surprise me. though.

Funny enough, mafia is not about trolling. Your confusion in this topic doesn't surprise me.

Where am I trolling here?

The trolling remark was not directed at you.

[Toaster Strudel]

Rather than look at the excellent reasons for eliminating schism by lynch, namely:
1) Playing without accountability
2) Burden in late-game even if he is town
3) Won't be NKed if he is town
4) Shows no intention of lurking in such a way as to be replaced
5) Might well be scum

and let's not forget MEGA-scumtell 6) Didn't even bother claiming anything.

[Toaster Strudel]

Last night we had two kills. The doctor and the jailkeeper are dead. The roleblocker might have targeted the right player - if someone sent in a roleblock, please come forward if you think you might have stopped a killer (bear in mind there might be a vig).

I'm going to guess here that the highest probability of scum lays with the lurkers. Who might be too lazy to send a NK?

1. YagamiLight (last seen onsite Feb 11)
3: Sir Tornado spambot (attendance very spotty)

7: Neo-Viper Bookitty Flameaxe (regularly active)
1: Zu_Faul (regularly active)
4: JordanA24 (regularly active)
5: Albert B. Rampage Xylthixlm (regularly active)
8: Sikario8 Setael (regularly active)
9: Elmo IH (regularly active, mostly GD)
10: hasdfgas (regularly active)
11: Paradox244 Quagmire Vollkan (regularly active)

Mmm... maybe not. There is more than 2 scum, so one of them should be able to send in the nightkill. Bizarre.

[Toaster Strudel]

Very interesting. I see no reason to wait to give the info.

[Toaster Strudel]

Why do you only look at about 2/3 of the players list here?

The rest are VERY OBVIOUSLY active and their lurking doesn't need to be weighed by the lurkometer. The lurkometer is a precision instrument. Putting you or me on it would be like weighing a rhino on a milligram scale.

[Toaster Strudel]

Panzer has 58 posts.

[Toaster Strudel]

How did THAT happen???

[Toaster Strudel]

BM, explain.

[Toaster Strudel]

For the record, I do look at wagons, but I interpret them completely differently. It's not how many wagons a player is on, or how few that matters.

I analyze wagons based on my believe that scum will almost never all pile into a wagon (except in late game when it becomes less risky for them) and that there will always be one or two scum on a wagon (town or scum wagon, no difference). I believe that the scum tends to distribute itself evenly across the on-wagon and off-wagon votes.

It doesn't work unless we have enough dead players to reduce the number of unconfirmed alignment players that are on-wagon and off-wagons.

[Toaster Strudel]

TS giving advice on avoiding bandwagonning relentlessly?
Why does that seem like the greatest logical fallacy of all!?

BM

BM's reading comprehension test result:

F

[Toaster Strudel]

It's clear that elvis_knits has hardly read the game, and what little she read, was read with a mind to find reasons to find me scummy, and did not pick up on the one overwhelming reason why I shouldn't be lynched.

Perhaps the more astute players have picked up on it, and might care to point it out to her, or, preferably, to just tell her to put a sock in it, and find some real scum.

[Toaster Strudel]

But I can't understand your actions about unvoting k-scope and accusing others of being scummy for not allowing a claim when it was deadline anyway.

There was no need to put on all these extra votes especially when Quagmire was such a good alternative. Better to no-lynch than lynch a doctor or a cop or whatever power role.

I find it very odd the way to cling to minute, subtle, half-baked "scumtells" - given how active I've been in this game, I'm sure anyone in search of a scumtell would not be hard-pressed to find quite a few. I have a feeling you haven't really read the game (and I can't really blame you, I am glad that you are replacing and thank you), and you just decided to aim for the biggest animal in the zoo, because bigger targets are easier.

For the record, your predecessor YagamiLight also pinged my scumdar, and if anyone needs to be bandwagonned, it's you, not me.

If I see more from you, you will get my vote.

[Toaster Strudel]

But I can't understand your actions about unvoting k-scope and accusing others of being scummy for not allowing a claim when it was deadline anyway.

There was no need to put on all these extra votes especially when Quagmire was such a good alternative. Better to no-lynch than lynch a doctor or a cop or whatever power role.

You shouldn't have had any idea that k-scope was a power role. BEsides, you were voting k-scope at the time, but just jumped off when it looked like he was gonna get lynched.

That's right, I wanted him to claim. Maybe K-scope had a power role, maybe he didn't. I did jump off when it looked like he was going to get lynched, in order to give him breathing room in case he did claimed an important role. It's very odd that you would try to paint this as somehow anti-town, I cannot imagine a circumstance where it would be.

I'm sure that's not what you mean, but looking at your wording, you sound like you're saying that you think I'm scum because I knew that K-scope had a power role... elvis, you're too scummy for words. Scum knows power roles??? Is that the implication? Maybe you should have worded it differently if you meant something different.

I think you didn't look at any other player but me. You picked me because BM has just made a BM-kraplogick case that most players that have been following the game are ignoring, because they might have picked up on a few things here and there, and there's not much substance to it. But still it was a case, and a recent one, and you decided to blindly hop on that wagon, finding a few random things I did in my huge body of work in this game, and trying to whip up excitement for it. I very much doubt you'll have any success.

I find it very odd the way to cling to minute, subtle, half-baked "scumtells" - given how active I've been in this game, I'm sure anyone in search of a scumtell would not be hard-pressed to find quite a few. I have a feeling you haven't really read the game (and I can't really blame you, I am glad that you are replacing and thank you), and you just decided to aim for the biggest animal in the zoo, because bigger targets are easier.

I do believe in scumtells. Not every one all the time. But, yeah, I thin your SK comment was a slip. I admit I haven't read the whole game. I'm not trying to keep this a secret or say I've been thorough or anything. But if I were to comment on your play as a whole, my impression is relentless pursuit of personal vendettas, wanting to lynch "trolls" regardless of alignment, and you have bandwagonned every pro-town player in the game as far as I can tell. So... yeah.

For the record, your predecessor YagamiLight also pinged my scumdar, and if anyone needs to be bandwagonned, it's you, not me.

If I see more from you, you will get my vote.

Feel free.

The SK comment was a quip on a mega-lurker who posted twice, and whose two posts were unexplained votes. Hence the "SK much" quip. There is absolutely no way this can be interpreted as a slip of any kind, if you look at the facts that inspired the quip.

Relentless pursuit of personal vendettas? Are you not aware of the players that were policy-voting me on account of personal vendettas, and quite openly so?

Also, I don't believe we have caught scum yet, so it's no surprise that the players whose lynch I advocated and are now dead are not scum. That's true for me, and true for every single player in this game.

vote: elvis_knits

[Toaster Strudel]

If Erg0 wasn't such an obvious lynch, I would be voting TS.

Yes. You want be off every game I'm in. You nightkill me on Night 0, or you vote for me independently of my actions.

Seems like I can count on a average of 3 policy-lynchers per large game.

[Toaster Strudel]

I'm not dumb enough to kill you N0 as scum. Everyone knows you suck as town, so why bother? Free scumbuddy.

Funny, recently the scumteams pretty much seem to think it's a necessity to NK me as early in the game as humanly possible. Seems I can't play a game unless I replace.

[Toaster Strudel]

The circumstance is that it was deadline and preventing a kscope lynch was as good as no-lynching.

You can't be serious. It was what, Day 1? Had K-scope shown up with a credible cop claim, you think it would be better to lynch him than no-lynch??? Remember, Quagmire was the alternative to K-scope. So it's not like there was no good candidate to fall back upon if K-scope had a believable claim.

What I meant was that jumping off at that time looks like you wanted off of a bad lynch, or wanted a no-lynch.

No at all, how can you possibly infer this from my action? And what scum wants a no-lynch on a historical 56 page long Day 1? AGAIN, if K-scope had come through with a claim, I would have been besides myself with joy lynching Quagmire instead. Maybe it's time to look at what happened more carefully.

I looked at other players. I even mentioned some in the post I voted you. And even if I didn't, you have no way of knowing who I looked at and who I didn't, so it's WIFOM imaginary stuff. I'm not following BM. If I was, I would be voting zu-faul.

No, nice pretend job. You know exactly who BM is voting for, and who his most recent case was about. And you may have cursorily glanced at other players, but a quick glance isn't good enough. It's not too late elvis. Why don't you take an in-depth look at BM? vollkan? Erg0? zu_Faul? I mean, serious looks.

I find it very odd the way to cling to minute, subtle, half-baked "scumtells" - given how active I've been in this game, I'm sure anyone in search of a scumtell would not be hard-pressed to find quite a few. I have a feeling you haven't really read the game (and I can't really blame you, I am glad that you are replacing and thank you), and you just decided to aim for the biggest animal in the zoo, because bigger targets are easier.

I did not see them succeeding or pursuing you in the way you pursued others. And two wrongs don't make a right anyway... so you're not winning me over with the defense "they started it!"

I think I've been the most active player in this game. My pursuits were high-octane.

I notice you are not objecting to my comment that you want to lynch trolls regardless of allignment.

I object, I tend to think that trolls are scum.

Yeah but I feel like you wanted to lynch other people too who were NKed and turned up town(like MOS), making your record worse than others.

Maybe the scum wanted to discredit me.

[Toaster Strudel]

Rofl! I just did a DGB!

Now who feels like Al Gore!?

Hi five, hahaha.

[Toaster Strudel]

I accept most of TS's play as normal and not necessarily a scumtell. BUT, I did notice that she jumped off k-scope wagon at the last minute, and the next day yelled at sirT and hascow for hammering without letting k-scope claim. But it was deadline, so I don't know why she blamed them. Did she want the town to no-lynch? Did she really think there was time for k-scope to claim? I think the jumping off the wagon at the time was scum trying to not to be blamed for the bad lynch about to come down. What other reason would a pro-town person jump off hte lynch at that point? The only thing it could maybe accomplish is a deadline no-lynch, which is also anti-town.

Is this the only significant point you have against TS?
@TS: What did you think of Scopey at the time of unvoting?

wtf?
I'm pretty sure TS didnt make that quote...
BM

Yes, I think the quote attributed to me is actually elvis_knits, then it makes sense.

We totally need a vollkan scummeter reading, right now. Xyl that was a most excellent suggestion, 3 gold stars to you.

[Toaster Strudel]

I'm getting the sinking feeling you actually want me to read this entire game.

If we lynch you today, you won't have to. If we don't lynch you, your buddies can fill you in on the essentials at night.