Mafia 70: Traditional - Game over!

[Niv]

OMG I Suck,

Vote Niv

. always a good opening move

[Niv]

Unvote, Vote Simenon

for no apparent reason

[Niv]

i have been debating back and forth about tdoing this in my mind, and i think it is in the wowns best intrests to do this.

I am part of a 5 man mason team. and i was told from the begining that there there is at least one scum among us. i think i know who it is.

i sent out a nice high to everyone. and three people responded back with a nice high as well, however,

Simenon,

Responded with this line about how he thought out of 5 of us, at least one of us is probally mafia. and all this warning that was stated in the opening pm. i personally think that i cought Simenon as scum in pregame, for clearly not knowing the townie mason pm. When i called him out on this, he didn't respond. and he had atleast 2 days (i think) to do so. he picked up the pm and then said nothin.

there was reason for my vote on this man. and it is going to stand, as i think this is the best lead we're gonna get in no night 0 day one.

[Niv]

Unvote
Vote ZONEACE

I don't particularly like his fossing of both Niv and I, and the last sentence of 105 is scummy. I think he's trying to avoid committing to anything.

I'm a bit puzzled as to why one of Niv and I have to be town. It's possible that I simply did not receive the pm in question. There is no reason for Niv to send it as scum and there really is no reason for me to ignore it as scum.

Sime has now picked up his pms. i would like to ask you this now: why did you send out a warning about using the 5 man masonrys sparingly, if it was in cluded in "your pm?" also, seing sime's responce, i do now think that even more, i am correct. also, Zone, i don't see anywhere you aggreeded w/ sime. can you point it out tom me?

[Niv]

Sime has now picked up his pms. i would like to ask you this now: why did you send out a warning about using the 5 man masonrys sparingly, if it was in cluded in "your pm?"

My pm does not say to speak sparingly! If that is your argument, then I don't know how to respond.

One of the masons can back me up here, surely.

my role pm says something along the lines of the factthat i am quite possitivve that someone canot be trusted in our masonry. are you saying that yours dosent say that? in the pm that wasn't picked up until now i ask him if he was not told that or if that he was the one that just wasn't trustworthy?

Also, if i wasn't still convinced of sime's scumness, i'd be voting Zone right now

[Niv]

Eh, rethinking it, here is probably where the miscommunication lies:

I send Niv a pm saying that one of us may be scum and we shouldn't talk that much.
He sends me a pm (presumably the one I picked up) saying that he didn't need to be telling that.
He follows up with a pm saying something about outboxes and saying "point stands".

No where did he mention I was scummy for what I said, just that he didn't need to be reminded that one was possibly untrustworthy.

Now I would definately like Niv to clarify.

My entire issue is not the fact that you sent the original message, but the fact you never responded to the question i askd you. even though i asked multiple times. the issuee here is whether or not the other masons were told whether or not we can be trusted. i figure that the fact that in my townie pm, i was told this. and i don't see any reason why he was not told this. and decided to warn me as well. my question went along the lines of:

(reworded)

do you know if you are trustworthy? (roundabout way of asking him if he is scum.) as i higly doubt that there are multiple townie mason pm's. i am still convinced that sime is scum.

For those who care, i sent 4 pms:

1st: Hi
2nd: calling him out w/ a question.
3rd: calling him out again b/c i went to my sent box, and thought i forgot to send it.
4th:appologising for sending 2 of the same message.

Lastly @ ergo

he had picked up 1st pm, 2nd pm.

then after i called him out he picked up the third and 4th

I hope this helps.

[Niv]

I did read another pm earlier, but it said the exact same thing of another he sent, except with a question attatched. So I ignored it.

EBWODP

QFT

so you admit ignoring my question?

[Niv]

At its essence, the case against Sim seems to be that he sent out a warning against possible scum masons when this warning was already in the mason PM. To me, the important question is whether he would do this, even if he knew that the warning was in the PM. If the answer to that question is no then he almost certainly didn't receive the same PM as everyone else.

BUT THE WARNING NOT TO TALK WAS NOT IN THE MASON PM!!

The most reasonable argument you could put forward would be "well, the logical conclusion is not to talk". But I have already given an explanation for that, something which Niv fails to answer to.

the way i see it:

warning that there is a scum in your group = dont tell the scum what you are doing. and the fact that you thought it was necessary to tell us that, really makes me suspicious of you. there was no warning not to talk, however, warned of possible scum = be careful of what you say. still lost as to whay you sent that warning. btw, i hope i answered the question

[Niv]

BUT THE WARNING NOT TO TALK WAS NOT IN THE MASON PM!!.

So it was in the scum PM. I see.

Vote Simenon

.

Don't be an idiot. I have already claimed to have three other mason buddies- they can tell you if the warning was in the pm or not. Unless you mean to suggest all are scum except niv.

warning that there is a scum in your group = dont tell the scum what you are doing.

So my pm was a logical extension to the warning in the mason pm?

Thus confirming that I had received the mason pm?

Odd.

or that it shouldn't need saying, thus, you didn't know we all knew that.

also:

We may be interpreting that bit wrong. Mine could say something along those lines, but I got it as "you can be sure of a possibility" and not "you are sure there is a scum".

Re-worded, mine says: something along the lines of: you have a really sure that there is an infltration.

[Niv]

ebwodp. we are not allowed to quote pms from the mason group

[Niv]

or that it shouldn't need saying, thus, you didn't know we all knew that.

You obviously haven't read carefully enough. Reread my point in 201 until you think you have the answer. Then resubmit your paper. Be sure to put it face down.

Re-worded, mine says: something along the lines of: you have a really sure that there is an infltration.

I didn't get that

at all

in the mason pm. Rather, paraphrased mine says something along the lines of "you are sure someone may be scum". That doesn't mean there IS a scum. Also, nothing resembling the word infiltration was used.

Again, reread my post in 201, which answers probably any follow up to this.

Reading over the pm, i can see how you got that. also in my mind: if not everyone is trustweorthy, then your "secret society has been infeltrated."

also:

You sir, are a cheater. Quoting any PMs are usually not only disallowed, they are modkillable offenses.

Actually, you are wrong. Read the rules again

11.) Do not quote or fakequote your

role PM

. This is a modkillable offence.

Now, I'd like you to tell me where you get the part: "Quoting ANY PMs is not allowed". I have just given you, in my post an instance where I had seen a mason quote a PM from his buddy in a Patrick mod game.

PM from the mod to all te masons:

no quoting aof a pm, no matter where they are from. this was sent after my claim occured.

[Niv]

even i am now starting to think that it's a misunderstanding. i think now that hte best place to look is Zone.

Unvote, Vote Zone

.

[Niv]

even i am now starting to think that it's a misunderstanding. i think now that hte best place to look is Zone.

Unvote, Vote Zone

.

wrong wrong wrong wrong WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG

Why, you have not a protown move this game. and unless you are a jester. (good mods don't put these in a fourm gmae as far as i am concerned)

lol at patrick.

Also why take the time to post this, when, many are suspicious of you. can you please point out for those of us that don't follow your logic, what exactally it is

When I played with Niv, I got more of a feel that he was an eratic newbie personally.

When have you played with me?

[Niv]

been busy, post tonight w/ info

[Niv]

Niv - please explain why Simenon's actions are more likely to be done by scum than by town.

even i am now starting to think that it's a misunderstanding. i think now that hte best place to look is Zone.

Why Zoneace?

First point. i first thought how he worded the pm, that he didn't know something in the town pm. then, after the discussion, i figured that it was morelikley a misunderstanding. and i made a mistake coming out.

also, can ytou point a single pro town post by zone?

Someone suggested earlier (I think) that Zoneace might be a Jester. I think it's time to start seriously considering this. I can't believe that anyone would play as badly as he does. Especially since he is quite an experienced player.

iv'e been kinda thinkin that fer a while. however, i don't remember if i said that. either way, i don't think a jester should be in a fourm game, and if there is one, well, i disagree with its addition.

Erg0 is full of win. Sir Tornado is full of fail.

Unvote, Vote: Sir Tornado

Zoneace is not scum. You think he's scum because you have never played with him before. Or, you know he's not scum and are pushing a lynch on him because you think he's an easy target and don't realize that those of us who've been around this whole time know the Zonace isn't acting scummy.

however if zoneace always plays like this, wouldn't it be more like a no tell?

Please switch your votes to Yamahako and not someone so distracting, thanks.

i just quoted this beacuse its easer than that whole pointless arguement w/ zone.

@ Zone: could you please post some real content of some sort. like who you think is scum or something. i will possibally unote you, however at the moment i cant find a single protown post by you. i am not unreasonable, if you give me reason to unvote you, i will do so gladly

before his one post yesterday suggesting i might be a jester he hadn't posted in almost a week and he's only posted 5 times in the game. He's been super lurky and suddenly shows up to jump on a lame wagon. sounds like someone worth voting to me.

Well, nice conentent. i actually agree with you.

You may very well have made 40 posts in that time, but 39 have been appeals to emotions and OMGUS votes. Maybe I should just consistently post spam and spout OMGUS crap to get my post count up higher.

im sure if you weren't stupid and actually went back and looked you'd see that far more than 1 of my posts has been useful to the game, unlike you. but keep up the good work.

i'd actually guess about 10 posts oh his to have some form of content, howvever a zone confirm on his own contentent 'd be nice, possabally w/ added content

lastly. i will

UnVote Zone

and then

Vote Flare

until the following is answered:

When I played with Niv, I got more of a feel that he was an eratic newbie personally.

When have you played with me?

i don't think i have ever played w/ you in the past. could you please tell me when you have played w/ me.

[Niv]

i don't think i have ever played w/ you in the past. could you please tell me when you have played w/ me.

I would prefer to be lynched than answer this question, as I have played on other sites. I will reveal it when the game is over I think.

ok, i can handle this, i think. however, i don't see any reason you would want to not reveal this now. why is that? can you atleas ask a game you played w/ me in, so i can see where you are coming from on your view of me as an eratic Newb?

[Niv]

also, @ zone:

when i miss a few pages, i respond to posts in order. so that you know my oponion at each point in a game. even if future parts of the post contradict the later.

[Niv]

also: sry boutthe tripple post,

UnVote Flare

need t ofind something more telling as a place to vote

[Niv]

Ok, just quick thoughts.

Zoneace, absolutely terrible player. I wonder if he ever successfully catches scum because honestly he seems like a big gigantic distraction. He practically usurped 5 pages. No, that's just wrong. I don't think he's mafia but if there's an sk or any other scum out there i'm not ruling that out at all. Frankly saying I play like this (terrible) all the time is not an excuse to continue to play bad. Look at BM for examples.

Yamahako, active lurker,

unvote, vote Yamahako

. I dispise lurkers, especially active lurkers.

MoS is acting weird but i've got no read on him.

The whole Sim/Niv fiasco looked like another thing the scum exploited and laid low while letting that usurp the thread for pages and pages. Niv, bad play. Just, bad play. This has been run to death however so i'm sure you'll never ever, EVER do it again.

I think this game is going to be pretty hard to win because gee, look at all the lurkers. Just means we're going to have to work out the crap from Zoneace, lurking from the lurkers and hopefully get some insight from all the nice tunnel visioned people. Jdodge, I think you picked a bad game to lurk in, we kinda need you if you're town.

Man, i read this post, and see nothing good in it. Calls zone a terrible player, adn the n goes on to say tat he doubs he is mafia, however his could be scum, however, if he is just a terrible player, how did you get that read? (personally, having never read a gmae w/ him, a am starting to understand his playstyle. i actually find it diffrent, but not poor.)

then hte vote on yamh, which is tho only part i agree w/.

fence sitting on MoS

points out the obvuious in hopw supid and irrational i played. (i admit i was tupid, however, i stil find sim slightly at fault, however it is like 15,85 as far as i am concerned i see no reason to say this.

then some stupid coment about how it will be had to to win, what? its day one...

So if he comes up scum, you're scum?

I attacked you? Would you like to compare insults? Perhaps I should count your insults and compare them to my one insult? I said yo'ure a terrible player, you demonstrate this at practically every opportunity. However i've just realized, you're distracting me from actually finding scum, so i'm not going to continue this conversation. If you have a problem with my thoughts, bring up a case. Otherwise you can keep the ad hom to yourself.

This post drives me nuts, make some stupid wifom, followed by more zone attacks. its useless. ans scummy.

Notice, I don't have a vote, haha, I don't even have a FoS against you. I didn't say MoS was scummy either, I said he was acting weird. Perhaps you should get some sleep.

Are you claiming Voteless, or are you ust stupid? i think its the latter.

Vote White

. What an amazing entrance tot he gmae

[Niv]

I am still around. (Honestally, i forgot I was in this game and wasn't checking the site), will catcup later today

[Niv]

[quote="Niv"]also, can ytou point a single pro town post by zone? [/quote]

Can you show me examples of when ZONEACE hasn't played like this in other games?

[quote="Niv"]i don't think i have ever played w/ you in the past. could you please tell me when you have played w/ me. [/quote]

Why at all is this a good reason to vote for someone?

[quote="Niv"]ok, i can handle this, i think. however, i don't see any reason you would want to not reveal this now. why is that? can you atleas ask a game you played w/ me in, so i can see where you are coming from on your view of me as an eratic Newb? [/quote]

Furthermore, why do you keep your vote on?

[/quote]

I have never read, and don't plan on going out of my way to find this, howecver i am starting to see how Z plays, and, i think he is Unreadable.
ATM

LAL on the flame stratagy, and it seams like he will never answer that ?

[quote="ZONEACE"][quote="ZORG[/quote]


ZOMG YOU MEAN LIKES THESE I LINKED TO.

[quote="ZONEACE"]http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... highlight=
theres one

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... highlight=
another
[/quote]

Or you could be refrencing this as scum, and trying to metagame yourself. all wifom.

[quote="ZONEACE"]IM NOT FUCKING OMGUS PERSONIFIED. THIS IS THE ONLY FUCKING GAME YOU GOD DAMNED BEEN IN WITH ME. READ SOME OF MY GOD DAMNED GAMES ALRIGHT. HELL, READ THE OTHER 2 GAMES I'M IN NOW. I DON'T FUCKING OMGUS ALL THE TIME AND I HAVE EXPLAINED ALL THREE OF MY VOTES THIS GAME. THEY'VE HAD MORE REASON THAN OMGUS JESUS CHRIST GET SOME FUCKING READING COMPREHENSION.


here i'll list some games where you can see im not OMGUS (not gonna link cause im sick of doing everyone elses fucking job for them).

Shadyville
Mystery in Shadyville
Clavin and Hobbes
DP9 Blackadder mafia[/quote]

Angry Much? can I ask you why you are still metagaming yourself?

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]Hi ZONEACE

Are you scum?[/quote]

Hi K: Are yuo lurking?

[quote="ZONEACE"]No. I'm very much not scum. I'm very much a plain vanilla townie being railroaded by atleast a couple scum.[/quote]

You are nowhere near -2, why did you just claim?????

[quote="ZONEACE"]I swear to god you people cant friggin read.


yes WHITE WAS PUSHING HARD AT ME, BUT IMMEDIATELY AFTER THAT WHAT DID I SAY, THE CASE AGAINST MY IS CRAP, WHICH IT IS.

for fucks sake, stop taking parts of sentences and ignoring the rest. hell you make anything anyone says mean whatever you want if thats what you're gonna do.

zeppo showed up, OUT OF NOWHERE and mentioned suspicion of 1 person with a shit case against them and came after another person with a lame case against them.[/quote]

I agree with you mostly, however, : i doubt a modkill is in the besat intrests of the town

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]Frustration makes you look sexy. Are you sure you are not frustrated scum?[/quote]

Are ou sure you're not lurking?

[quote="ZONEACE"][quote="Mastermind of Sin"][quote="Niv"][quote="Mastermind of Sin"]
Zoneace is not scum. You think he's scum because you have never played with him before. Or, you know he's not scum and are pushing a lynch on him because you think he's an easy target and don't realize that those of us who've been around this whole time know the Zonace isn't acting scummy.[/quote]

however if zoneace always plays like this, wouldn't it be more like a no tell?[/quote]

You're putting words in my mouth. I didn't say that. I said he wasn't acting like he does as scum. That statement is not logically equivalent to "always plays like this", therefore it is not the no tell you are proposing.[/quote]


FOUND IT


there, it was NIV who tried to make it seem like MoS said i always act like this, which he wasnt. he then called NIV on it and explained.[/quote]

That is hoinestally what i got out of reading that. when MoS explaned it, it made much more sence though. and as the game progresses, i makes even more sence.

[quote="Zeppo"][quote="Mastermind of Sin"]Erg0 is full of win. Sir Tornado is full of fail.

Unvote, Vote: Sir Tornado

Zoneace is not scum. You think he's scum because you have never played with him before. Or, you know he's not scum and are pushing a lynch on him because you think he's an easy target and don't realize that those of us who've been around this whole time know the Zonace isn't acting scummy.[/quote]

Okay so he wasn't quite saying that you always play like this.

However in this game http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... c&&start=0
You were scum, you were lynched day 1 and you played similarly though not

as

to how you played now. (I chose this game because it's the most recent game I could see that had finished).

I find your play to be fairly rubbish and your lack of a good defense could well mean you're scum. Your buddying up with MoS only makes me more suspicious.[/quote]

Reading is tech.

He was Town in that game. however the town was scum ans scum was the town so, nice try.

FoS Zeppo

[quote="White"]Zone:

Claiming with less than 1/2 votes needed to lynch you, scummy or terrible play.
Ad Hom on more than half your posts, scummy or terrible play.
Recklessly defending anyone that defends you, scummy or terrible play.

I believe that would constitute 3 strikes.

I really don't like Kscope's lurking and complete lack of scum hunting.

FoS: KScope

The reason i'm noncommital on MoS is because in every game i've read of him he's acted differently. Granted i've read his first game, Bad Idea II and a few ongoing games. If you want I can go ahead and reread his posts out of context and post on that but i've not done that yet.[/quote]

i Agree w/ you on K, however, your post makes my vote feel even more at home than before.[quote="White"][quote="JDodge"]Don't use Bad Idea (either one) to judge anyone's playstyle. Seriously.[/quote]

Which is why i'm unsure about MoS, because i'm not using that game or the other one, because it was when MoS was a newbie. I'm playing this game from this game only. In this game exclusively MoS hasn't really done much (going from memory) so i'm reserving my stance.

Thanks Zone! Because you asked me to, I will.

Btw, nice to see how you don't disagree with the other two.[/quote]

He didn't agrre w/ you either, so, whats your point?

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]

Unvote Vote: White

I'm not lurking. I posed on this page.[/quote]

I'm not lurking, when i post, my posts are the length of the avrage page However, i agree w/ you.... aside from that

Fos K

[quote="White"]Just curious here but does my wagon have any base or is it just because you people need a scapegoat?[/quote]

You could argue that Zone is posting no content (i am not but for comparisions sake.) however, the content you post just reaks of scum, i think just rereading you will make everyone se what scum you are.

[quote="Lemming1607"]There really is no reason to talk about other people's past games. It's WIFOM. He could be scum knowing that he's acted like this in past games using it to make people think he's town. Although I don't think he's smart enough for that.

He's made scum tell after scum tell this game. Why are we letting it slide?

Sorry I've been away, I work two jobs. I will explain my reasoning for thinking that MoS is scummy now[/quote]

Read over Zone's play, it is all reaction, i am getting a town read on him. w/o any form of metagaming.(now

[quote="ZONEACE"]what the hell is WIFOM?


god i go away for a couple years and you guys freaking create an entire new languagte of just acronyms[/quote]

Wine in front of me, its from the princess bride. look it up, there are videos.

[quote="Lemming1607"]Erg0, are you saying that zoneace has not made scumtells?

Are you saying that scum would never be so blatantly scummy?[/quote]

this is the same as saying that the scum cnat have a very town looking person. scum are scum, look for content, not playstyle. reading is important. the best scumtells to read are always the subtle ones.

[quote="White"][quote="Zone"]Im ndone playing, i won't be answering anymore questions.[/quote]
Hmm.[/quote]

I don't think this is LAL worthy. can Zone not change his mind?

[quote="White"]Every chance you get your mention that all votes against you are completely mindblowingly idiotically [profanity] [profanity] baseless.

You have never changed your stance, you accuse people that are voting the most scummy person as idiots and yet, you're still answering questions.[/quote]

If someone dosen't change there stance, it means they fully belive themselvs to be true. and why do we care that Zone said he is done, he is still here,

also, personally, i'd never play like zone, however, all of the votes on zone are practally baseless to me.

[quote="White"]Hunting the scummiest person is anti town now?

Honestly is there no end to your lack of forethought and idiocy? Will you ever become a decent player? I can't answer that, but based on what i've seen the answer for now is obvious. No.

I've yet to see you scum hunt btw.[/quote]

He's voting you, thats a nice start. also, why call zone out on his playstyly, when your recent posts boil down to Z is n idiot, lets lynch him.

[quote="Lemming1607"][quote="ZONEACE"]listen, if it obvious from the acts of these two who the scum are then the town is beyond help.

the two of them keep trying to distract the town with shit that's already come and gone. this whole incident with me is OVER and has been, but they won't let it die. everytime they bring it up it just serves to reinforce their obvious anti-town behavior[/quote]

Your defense of yourself is metagaming, which is WIFOM. I don't believe in that. Sorry to disappoint you. And I'm going to keep pushing for your lynch because of you being scummy, and the scummiest person in the game so far.[/quote]quote="White"]I think he's the scummiest person and i'm trying to show him how scummy he's being. However I attribute it to being simply a bad player, not scum. Which is why i'm not pushing for a lynch, i'm pushing for him to shut up and stop distracting us.[/quote]

And yet i think neither of you are actually votingfor him.

[quote="ZONEACE"][quote="White"]I think he's the scummiest person and i'm trying to show him how scummy he's being. However I attribute it to being simply a bad player, not scum. Which is why i'm not pushing for a lynch, i'm pushing for him to shut up and stop distracting us.[/quote]


stop distracting us, you and lemming are the ones distracting everyone.[/quote]

Zone may not put his thouts into play in a conventional method, hoever, i see that his scum hunting skills are god, if not exelet.

[quote="White"][quote="White"]I've yet to see you scum hunt btw.[/quote]

I hereby retract this statement.

I have yet to see you, Zoneace, hunt scum in the last 5 pages.[/quote]

The last 4 or so pages have been dominated by Zone and friends. Much as i see him as town, it is unlikley that you can get too much out of this section of the game.

[quote="JDodge"]WILL YOU PEOPLE STOP ARGUING ALREADY.

THIS IS POINTLESS AND IRRELEVANT TO LYNCHING WHITEY.[/quote]

Agree W/ you 100%

[quote="JDodge"][quote="White"]Jdodge, can I hear a case against me? Do you have a case against me?[/quote]

No to the first, yes to the second[/quote]

well, i have an oponion on white, that wil probally never be sumarised in one post, however, is it a case in my mind, yess. will ever pupacally post it, no. Will i tell people to read white and make their own decisions, yes.

[quote="The Fonz"][quote="Lemming1607"]
Fonz: I don't know why but I get scummy vibes off him. Need to look into it more.
[/quote]

FFS, I swear if one more person, in one more game, declares that they get a 'scummy vibe' off me, without having a clue why, I'm going to kill someone.[/quote]

NK them. OOHH claiming scum, lynch him. ()

i am not advocating his lynch at this point. this is sarcasam

[quote="Patrick"]Votecount

Lemming1607 (1) -- Setael
ZONEACE (1) -- Lemming1607
Flare (2) -- Ether, Erg0
Mastermind of Sin (3) -- Toaster Strudel, Flare, Yamahako
Yamahako (3) -- Simenon, White, Aimee
Sir Tornado (1) -- Mastermind of Sin
White (4) -- ZONEACE, JDodge, Niv, KaleiÐoscøpe
Toaster Strudel (1) -- Beastly

Not Voting: Flameaxe, booboodafool, Sir Tornado, Zeppo, The Venerable Zorg, The Fonz
22 alive, 12 to lynch.[/quote]

A while ago, i said that White and lem both wern't voting zone and saying he is the scummiest player in the game, i retract this statmet on lem. Whit is as bad as ever.....

[quote="Simenon"]guys we won't actually get to kill anybody if we can't decide on a lynch.[/quote]

Thanks captian obvious, wnat to change peoples minds then?

[quote="Yamahako"]

Unvote, Vote ZONEACE

There may be a method to my madness...[/quote]

Really?

[quote="Mastermind of Sin"]I am pming the mod with a request that Lemming be forceably replaced out of this game. I suggest that you all follow suit. There is no point in playing with someone who insists on playing like a retard and flaming people repeatedly out of immaturity. At least ZONEACE is actually playing the game, even if it's in his style to use AdHom. Lemming is just being immature and annoying as hell. I don't want him in this game anymore.[/quote]

I didn't kow you could do that. i dont think it warrents this.

[quote="Zeppo"][quote="Yamahako"][quote="Mastermind of Sin"]

Unvote, Vote: Yamahako

Scum.

Need I say more?[/quote]

If you don't need to... I shouldn't need to...[/quote]

Maybe you should both say more.[/quote]

Second

[quote="White"][quote="Sir Tornado"]White: What do you think about all the people voting for you right now?[/quote]

Zoneace

: I think everyone knows how I feel about him.

Jdodge

: I'm tired of his lurking and until he presents a case i'm just going to try and ignore his useless vote. I think he can contribute a lot if he wants to but he's not, which bugs me. Not scum hunting is scummy.

Niv

: Hm, I don't know if he's scummy but I can understand his attempt to catch Sim as scum when he talked about the pms. I think however that he should've given more time, perhaps another night, to clear things up instead of exposing that we've got a mason group, giving us the number of masons and outing two of them possibly more if it spiraled out of control. I guess i'd have to say that i'm leaning more towards town excluding his opportunistic vote on me without a case.

Kscope

: No case, opportunistic vote, lurker, not scum hunting, quacks like a duck, acts like a duck, smells like a duck. Likely scum.[/quote]

Its not opertunistic, i truly think you have been nothing but scummy. i don't posts cases. i ask people to make up teir own minds, while posting curent thopughts + responses. if you want my "case on you" go back and read my posts on you since yu have joined the game.

[quote="White"][quote="Yama"]This is about as much defense as I'm willing to give.[/quote]

So if you're town you're content to drop the ball, not help us and distract us?[/quote]

Yam, at this curent state only K is posting less content thanyou i think.

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]White hurts my feelings. Vote stays.[/quote]

K has yet to pst morer than a sentance at a time.

HoS K

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]

OMG, ZONEACE, I CAN'T HEAR YOU

I think we need to lynch celtic or his replacement though. But I want to see some love from White first.[/quote]

Stand corrected 3 sentances

[quote="White"]Uh, where do you get that? Presenting a case is a part of scum hunting. That is my comment on scum hunting. Jdodge isn't presenting cases.

Still waiting on that case.[/quote]

In your mind mabye, in mine all it takes is reading

[quote="The Fonz"]

unvote, vote booboodafool

Celtic doesn't do anything, and then booboo immediately shows up with a 'person C' vote.[/quote][quote="Mastermind of Sin"]

Unvote, Vote: booboodafool

Person C arguments are among the most accurate, in my opinion. Good catch, The Fonz[/quote]

I'm Lost

[quote="Erg0"]Ok, found the "Person C" reference that MoS mentioned above: looky here.

If I understand correctly, the basic idea is that Person C (booboo) is scummy for voting Person A (Yamahako) based on bad logic from Person B (Zeppo). I can kind of see Fonz's point on this one, though I'm not sure of the reliability of this particular tell because I haven't seen it in use before. I'll keep this in amongst my constant swirl of ideas.[/quote]

I kinda get uit, white is till worsew imo

[quote="White"]People pushing for my lynch.


Jdodge with 16 posts.
Kscope with 27 (13 of which are even game relevant) posts.
Ether with 10 posts.
TS with 13 posts.
Niv with 19 posts.

Which translates to lurkers pushing my wagon, without a presented case.

Jdodge <1 post per day.
Kscope <1 relevant post per day.
Ether almost <1 post per two days.
TS <1 post per day
Niv at 1 post per day.

I do believe Niv would qualify as not a lurker under this light. However the rest of them are. Why are almost all the people on my wagon lurkers? Why won't they present a case?

I can't help but get the feeling that there are opportunistic scum on my wagon. Hmm.[/quote]

How many posts can i cout this as? also, pathetic as it is, there are people lurking more than this (esspecially since all these people are replacements). that neads to be dealt with by some prodage .

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]I can't recall pushing for your lynch, White.[/quote]

I cant recally you posting at all.

[quote="White"]Panicky? I've got 5 votes and no one has presented a case. It's idiotic. Besides, i'm just noting that the people voting me are lurkers, not contributors.[/quote]

A "case " isnt needed, when all that needed is to read your posts as they come up.

[quote="Yamahako"]I didn't want to get analytical day one, White, but you forced my hand... /sigh

Jdodge replaced in, he's avereaged 3 posts per day since he replaced in.
Ether replaced in, he hasn't posted as many posts as some, but the posts have been of a reasonable length and filled with content
Kscope, regardless of your opinion of the quality of his posts, can't be called a lurker
TS is posting at a normal quantity of posts for what I remember of her
I can't speak to Niv I haven't played in many games with him

These AREN'T lurkers. All of them are posting. All of them are contributing. Your defense is crap-logic.

You, however, ARE being overly defensive - especially when "There's no case..."

a full 31% of your posts have be asking for reasoning behind your "wagon" This really screams scum to me... you're trying too hard to break a wagon that isn't where most people are focusing...[/quote]

I agree w/ this 100%

[quote="White"]Meh, I forgot about the replacements. Either way, i'm frustrated that i'm up to almost half lynch with no case. Oh well, it's true, i'm just drawing unecessary attention to myself.

Yama, being as you're the biggest wagon, why do you think it's best for you to start lurking? Or was that a don't expect much more from you post wise today (RL day)?[/quote]

.....

[quote="Sir Tornado"][quote="White"]Voting for yourself, whether a joke vote or not is bad play. [/quote]

Vote: Sir Tornado

Explain how it is bad play.[/quote]

Best thing i have seen in a while.

Final thoughts. Really don't like White, (clearly) and i think my next best targets is K or lem.

Also, my disclaimer "this has not been editeded or reread, and this was writen as i did my catcup read."

[Niv]

barring the mindnumbing syntax and spelling errors niv makes a lot of great points.

UNVOTE VOTE WHITE

its clear what we have to do today.

I have never played with you in past, however, If anyone here has played w/ me in the past, they know my spellling + grammar are horid.

I was even almost lynched once for it

[Niv]

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]Niv, learn what lurking means.

Unvote Vote: Celtic

[/quote]

Is it this? are you not even reading the game?

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]I did, but I was to lazy to search it's new name.[/quote]

Or your Lurking, and need to have some pressure applied to you, if this still keeps up futher, even after town pointing out your play, i might need to move votes

[quote="White"]What is the purpose of a vote? I believe the main purposes are to get a lynch and to pressure for information. By voting for yourself are might be accomplishing the former (which is bad town play) but you won't be accomplishing the latter. Which makes little sense in the form of scum hunting or really contributing at all. I would consider that tbad town play.

[quote="White"]I think he's the scummiest person and i'm trying to show him how scummy he's being. However I attribute it to being simply a bad player, not scum. Which is why i'm not pushing for a lynch, i'm pushing for him to shut up and stop distracting us.[/quote]
I believe the reason i'm not voting Zone is because I already said, I find him scummy but not scum. I think he's playing poorly but I don't think he's scum. There's no reason to vote someone you don't think is scum. Heck man, you even quoted this post. Are you just reading the parts that validate your opinions?

[quote="Ether"]I am confused by your wording.[/quote]
Ok, i'll rephrase. So I look scummy because you agree with me?

[quote="Ether"]You could call WIFOM on every defense that might possibly apply[/quote] No I can't. I call WIFOM when you try and guess what someone else might do or think if they are part of an alignment.

[quote="Ether"][quote="Post 635, White"]Ether, got a case on me?[/quote]Well...[/quote] Come on, yes or no.

[quote="Ether"]You appear to avoid relevant details and and be scum with Flare.[/quote]That's because I was asked to ask you questions. I figured inserting opinions on someone that's not related to what I was asked to do would be completely useless and would likely look like some sort of deflection or something. Generally I like to respond to what I was asked and not add irrelevant info about third parties.[/quote]

This post looks better to me than most others by you, and it goes well with my hatred of K. I still don't like your pressuring people for a "case"

[quote="The Venerable Zorg"][quote="Sir Tornado"][quote="White"]Voting for yourself, whether a joke vote or not is bad play. [/quote]

Vote: Sir Tornado

Explain how it is bad play.[/quote]

I'd say that self-voting is almost always a negative strategy (unless in the random-voting stage). If you are town, you do not want to get lynched, because a lynch on you is a lynch that could be on scum. And thats without the possibility that you are at Lynch or Lose, or have a power role.
In a way, it is also the equivalent of not voting atall, with reference to the fact that it reduces the amount of information the town can gain from your vote. It suggests that you have no suspicions, which gives the town fewer leads should you be killed.
As White said, the only person who would want to be lynched is a Jester. Or someone posing as a Jester in order to increase their life span.
I can't see what is scummy about this, nor am i seeing any real reasoning behind the White-wagon. He's one of the few people who look protown to me at the moment. Yamahako exhibited the giving up scumtell which could be indicative of his alignment. I'd rather see a Yama-lynch than a White-Lynch, but i'm sure there're better lynches than either out there. A lurker for example.[/quote]

However this was just pointless. however this post to me just feels wordy and useless.

[quote="White"]Actually i'm in favor of getting lurkers to talk but i'm not of the mindset that lynching them right off the bat is good. Lynching them if they continue to add nothing is ok though.[/quote]

[quote="JDodge"]OOOOOH LET'S ALL POST BIG LONG POSTS PARROTING EACH OTHER, THAT'S HELPFUL[/quote]

The lurkurs ar cureently talking for the most part.

However this isn't really helping.

Also

Request Prod on Flare

[quote="booboodafool"][quote="The Fonz"]

unvote, vote booboodafool

Celtic doesn't do anything, and then booboo immediately shows up with a 'person C' vote.[/quote]

[quote="Mastermind of Sin"]

Unvote, Vote: booboodafool

Person C arguments are among the most accurate, in my opinion. Good catch, The Fonz[/quote]


[quote="Simenon"]

Unvote
Vote booboodafool

Best wagon around. I could switch to yama, but I don't think that will accomplish much.[/quote]

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]Niv, learn what lurking means.

Unvote Vote: Celtic

[/quote]
Am i missing something?[/quote]

Whatever ou're missing, im missing it as well.

[quote="Sir Tornado"][quote="White"]What is the purpose of a vote? I believe the main purposes are to get a lynch and to pressure for information. By voting for yourself are might be accomplishing the former (which is bad town play) but you won't be accomplishing the latter. Which makes little sense in the form of scum hunting or really contributing at all. I would consider that tbad town play. [/quote]

Would you agree if I said that I am trying to get myself lynched by voting myself? Do you think I am doing that? Or, do you think I am trying to apply pressure on myself?[/quote]

I think you are saying that a mid day self vote is not hurting you but pointless none the less.

[quote="Yamahako"][quote="The Venerable Zorg"]
I'd say that self-voting is almost always a negative strategy (unless in the random-voting stage). If you are town, you do not want to get lynched, because a lynch on you is a lynch that could be on scum.
-snip-
Yamahako exhibited the giving up scumtell which could be indicative of his alignment. I'd rather see a Yama-lynch than a White-Lynch, but i'm sure there're better lynches than either out there. A lurker for example.[/quote]

Let's nip this in the bud right now, for the fourth time...

I did NOT self vote

The mod put up a vote count that was missing a vote someone had placed on me, and showed me in the list of people voting for me. This was mod error,

NOT

a self vote.

Vote me if you want because I'm not playing well or adding much to the discussion, but freaking read the game if you are making an honest attempt at analysis.

I have a sparse post history, it wouldn't be that hard to view all my posts to see whether or not I had voted for myself...

Unvote, Vote Simenon

[/quote]

Little weird coming from me, however, Why Sim?

[quote="Sir Tornado"][quote="White"]
I don't know if you're trying to get yourself lynched. But if you are trying to get yourself lynched and you're town, that's bad play. If you're trying to get yourself lynched and you're mafia, that's bad play. If you're trying to get yourself lynched in any circumstance other than jester or some weird win condition, it's bad play.
[/quote]

What if I am not voting myself to get myself lynched? Is that still bad play?[/quote]

I got it at first, but why draw this out. Minor FoS T

[quote="Simenon"][quote]
Thanks captian obvious, wnat to change peoples minds then?
[/quote]

If it was obvious then maybe we'd all start getting the message.

I switched to booboo because:
1. I stopped thinking Yama was scum.
2. BooBoo had the biggest new wagon.
3. booboo was scummy and still is scummy.

Unless anybody has any realistic alternatives, I will continue voting him.

Tweny eight pages without any direction in this game is not going to end in a town win.[/quote]

I don't see this wagon at all, however, your second coment, i disagree, it just means the scum havent made a mistake yet. and that we arn't lynching w/o reason.

[quote="Simenon"][quote]
Colin, why is White not a realistic alternative?
[/quote]

He's not a "new" wagon, iirc, and wagoning White tends to get him lynched/killed regardless of whether he's scum or not.[/quote]

But if he is scumy, why not wagon him.

[quote="Erg0"]Evidently the Flare wagon is dying. Let's go to option B.

Unvote, Vote: The Venerable Zorg

[/quote]

I Belive thats due to lack of flare

[quote="Sir Tornado"][quote="White"]Ok, we're going in circles. I've addressed this whole thing before, if you're still curious, then take the time to read my posts. I've been perfectly clear.

As a side note, what possible bearing does this have on the game and catching scum? [/quote]

Actually, no, we are not going in circles. You made a statement that amounted to: "Self voting is always bad play". I self voted and asked you to tell me exactly how my self vote was bad play. You still haven't answered it.[/quote]

Why is this still being discussed?

[quote="The Fonz"][quote="booboodafool"][quote="Mastermind of Sin"]What was the point of that post?[/quote]
[quote="White"]Uh, yeah, a defence.[/quote]

A defense? For what? I dont even know what im accused of? How about the people who voted for me give me a reason and defend there vote?[/quote]

I think the reason for the votes on you is pretty clear. Your scummy person C vote. Your pretence there is no case seems pretty panicky to me.

Also, Setael's last vote is full of fail.[/quote] 28 pgs, find something more reliable

[quote="The Fonz"]That's the argument for person C votes being a tell. You'll pardon me if I think 'because it's scummy' is ample reason for a wagon.

Booboo wasn't 'bewildered' he asked that people 'gave a reason' and 'explained their vote.' Since we already had given reason, who gives an eff that he didn't understand it? It's not like 'person C' is something I made up.[/quote]

Fos Fonz

again 28 pgs

[quote="Erg0"]Don't worry, I'd never heard of it either. I actually think that the use of the Person C tell to excuse a vote is almost an example of the Person C tell in itself, since the voter is effectively relying on someone else's argument of what constitutes a scumtell. Unfortunately I can't speak to the veracity of the tell itself because I haven't seen it used before.[/quote]

100% agree

[quote="White"][quote="Mastermind of Sin"]Who originally brought of Jester, and who was it referring to? First person to bring up Jester is probably scum, and if they're scum, they were probably defending a buddy with the Jester idea.[/quote]

QFT[/quote]

Honestally, that was me, and i belive i said someting alsong the lines of "unless he is a jester, however they are broken in fourm gmaes, anmd good mods should never put them into one."

Also While I am here. At this point, White i am getting a much better read off of now, However i Am icnes from voting Fonz, but at tis point Would be voting K

[quote="booboodafool"][quote="The Fonz"]basically, person A votes person B, and forwards an argument for B's scumminess.
Person C votes person B, saying 'I agree with A.' This is scummy for the reasons expounded above.[/quote]

Weaksauce. I shouldn't even have to defend myself.

[quote="The Fonz"][quote="Erg0"][quote="Simenon"]Dislike Ergo defending booboo. I think bb himself can explain that he didn't know what "Percon C" is. I personally don't think it's as strong as Fonz would like it either, but that's not why I'm voting him anyway.

Why are we voting TVZ?[/quote]

booboo already did say that, that was my entire point. The problem is that Fonz chose to paint ignorance as panic.
[/quote]

WTF makes you so sure it's ignorance and not panic?

I'd expect a town player, not knowing what person C was, to either ask

, or look it up. Booboo's actual response was rather too fingerpointy, too playing the martyr, to come from sincere motives. (Also, the assertion that two of four gave no reason is plainly false- it is clear K-Scope's vote is a lurkervote. Also, that came chronologically before mine- yet Booboo put it last, which makes it look, falsely, as if scope were bandwagon jumping.

Also, the initial Zeppo argument (pretty much attacking people for not stating reasons) is a bad one, hence i don't like the way it was followed. NOT GIVING REASONS IS NOT A SCUMTELL.[/quote]

Ask you say? Hmm....
[quote="booboodafool"][quote="Mastermind of Sin"]What was the point of that post?[/quote]
[quote="White"]Uh, yeah, a defence.[/quote]

A defense? For what?

I dont even know what im accused of?

How about the people who voted for me give me a reason and defend there vote?[/quote]

How am i to defend myself when i dont even know why im voted for?

Panic? Fingerpointy? All i did was ask for an explanation for the people that voted for me.

Is it really that hard to tell that Yamahako is shady ass hell? I didn't feel like going back that far but i find these posts shady.

[quote="Yamahako"]

Unvote, Vote ZONEACE

There may be a method to my madness...[/quote]

[quote="Yamahako"][quote="White"]Yamahako and a special question for you: how do you think you've played this game? As good as you normally do? You've been off in this game? You've never played this badly? You don't think you've played all that bad?[/quote]

My play is off this game -and in all honesty- I feel terrible with my play- however I'm trying something new and there's always some growing pains with a new strategy.

I'm trying something new because I dont' feel that I've ever really played all that well :-/[/quote]

First he votes for someone with no real motive. Then he admits he's playing differently.[/quote]

BB looks reall great after this post

[quote="Patrick"]Done with battery acid.[/quote]

Leaving My request in as i'a requested it a while ago

Yep, UnVote: Vote K

FoS The Fonz

IMGEOY White

[Niv]

post number 737:

OK

[Niv]

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]Niv, apparantly you are the one not keeping up. I've stated I did a reread and celtic came up as my top suspect. Whether or not that guy was replaced or not, the suspicions stays.[/quote]

nonLurker ≠ keeping up. I am voting you B/c you Are the most "visable lurker". as far as i am concerned, there is absol no concrete proof that you are scum or town, however, the way you post, strikes me as someone trying to not be seen, so..... take it as you may.

[quote="Sir Tornado"][quote="Aimee"]
SirT, by voting for yourself, what were you trying to achieve? [/quote]

I was trying to show White that voting yourself is not always bad play, but seeing how dense he is, I have given up.[/quote]

Why the hell are we still talking bout this? IDK that this is a give up ooist, Why do you insist on still talijkg bout this.

Why did you keep talkin bout this so long?

[Niv]

[quote="Sir Tornado"]You mean to say I should just ignore Aimee's question?[/quote]

No, i mean to say that this whole thing should taken lees than wehat it did.

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]Niv, that is not lurking. That is trying to fly under the radar.[/quote]

And at this moment, i personally do not condone either. in fact, i generally see them as the same sort of behivior. this is wy you are currently reciving my vote

[quote="White"]Sir T, can you illustrate how voting for yourself is good town play? Can explain what it develops into later on that is beneficial to the town?[/quote]

I think your looking up, then i read this post, and it all dies again.

[quote="White"]I have answered your questions several times and consistently quoted myself with my answers presented to you. Please read my posts.

If it's not good play, but it's not bad play, how is it neutral play? Why would you want to play neutrally? What benefit comes to the town by not scum hunting? What benefits does the town receive by playing neutrally?[/quote]

It's useless play, much like your consistyant instiing on the talking about this move.

[quote="Mastermind of Sin"][quote="Erg0"][quote="Mastermind of Sin"]Why is TVZ getting away with being scum? We should vote him more, plz.[/quote]

What he said. Zorg is wagonny, over-cautious and inconsistent.[/quote]

QFT! These guys are good.[/quote]

Did you Just QFT yourself.

So after these few posts, i belive i was didlded to vote K right Now. its more i want him dead due to his lacok of info. so fot that, and also, i don't right now see anyhtin on K moving, so i think i'll move mty vote back to

UnVote K, Vote White

[Niv]

working 12 Hrs tomorow. sorry

[Niv]

sorry all, still here. will catch up later. when i don't know

[Niv]

[quote="Zeppo"]

Unvote

. Yamahako's last few posts have actually been constructive (except his very latest one which is

such

a Person C vote but meh), I'm not convinced of his scuminess.[/quote]

I Get what a person C is, however, why the hell do we care. it seams like such a useless tell, if it even is one at all. why do other people find so much value in them?

[quote="JDodge"][quote="Mastermind of Sin"]Why is white scum again?[/quote]

Why isn't White scum?[/quote]

You're just as bad as K.

[quote="booboodafool"]We're all just going around in circles. Im going to keep my vote on yama unless something better comes up[/quote]

so mabye you could concider what others are posing, even just a bit?

[quote="Zeppo"]This 32 page day 1 is hard enough to follow in English.[/quote]

QFT'd also, @ JD + MoS: what the was hell point of any of that crap you were talking bouit?

[quote="White"]Ack, sorry, forgot my vote was still on Yama (yes, I haven't been looking at the votecounts).

Unvote

as he's been contributing much more recently...excluding the last day or so.

Ether:

[quote="Ether"]Too uncommittal to give you any points. Then you immediately changed the subject and have refused to speak of Flare since.[/quote]Refusing requires that i'm first asked to do something. I never was, therefore I have never refused. A better term would be "haven't" but I think you're looking for a more Shock and Awe word. Sadly the one you chose was wrong. No I will not be quoting in red.

[quote="Ether"]Too uncommittal to give you any points. Then you immediately changed the subject and have refused to speak of Flare since.[/quote]Of course it doesn't. But just because I don't post about someone that's actions have been run to death doesn't mean I don't read or analyze them. Btw, I believe this could fall under the catagory coaching...

[quote="Ether"]See...I'm not seeing how you could drag your eyes through 11 words and not be capable of finishing the last 4 words of the sentence.[/quote]Me either. However, my brain reads sentences as blocks, not word followed by word followed by word so on and so forth. It allows you to generally read and know the base of the sentence without taking the time to actually read every little word. No this is not skim/speedreading. This is conserving my time while reading because I actually value my time.

Seeing as i've got a free vote, let's take it for a spin!

Vote: Ether

Overdefensive, slight ad hom, OMGUS and a bunch of WIFOM. I also get a nice scummy vibe of buddying up to the lurkers and riding other people's thoughts by simply restating what they say in your own words so that you look like it's your idea. Not to mention I don't really feel you scumhunting. Yes you have been a big thing in the Flare issue and yes you have been trying to get a case on me but you're just picking on easy targets. Notice my wagon, plenty of people find me suspicious. Your initial vote on me was OMGUS and I have yet to see where i've been so suspicious. Flare was also being the center of attention as an easy target which you jumped on.

Eh, those are my thoughts.[/quote]

WTF? I don't get it. this case makes no sence to me.

[quote="White"]TS, why don't you try scumhunting?

I have no idea what good buddying up to lurkers does, ask Ether, she's the one that's doing it.[/quote]

It dosent elp anyone, its a no tel to me

[quote="White"]I consider buddying up in all forms scummy. I guess a benefit to buddying up to lurkers is if you suspect them to be mafia and you buddy up to them then you end up doing their work for you. OTOH lurkers are going to come out eventually or they'll be lynched (ideally) and when the do come out they'll have (I guess) a warm feeling toward the other person for buddying up to them.

Generally I can't see how it's protown and buddying up is scummy (IMO) so there you have my reasoning.

TS, go scum hunt.[/quote]

To e there is no reason to "buddy up" in any circumstance, however, that is diffrent form from defending someone, ehic can often look the same, and be entirely diffrend. however thining about it, Buddying up ina ll cases is bad. don't do it as town, sucm are glad to do it if it gets you caught

one think i hate about this is youre lurker talk. yes i activly hate all the "active lurkers" (K, JD ect) however, real lurkers in this game are those that are falling behind, nt rally scummy in this day one. How bout scum hunditg you

Post 808 by Beastly is amazing. it sumarised it all quite nicly. much of what i think is included here.

[quote="Erg0"]I'd really like it if people would stop hopping off wagons just because the wagonee is lurking.

That just makes them more scummy!

[/quote]

Semi-QFT. it dosen't make them more scumy, however, i also makes them no less scummy

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]what happened to that booboo guy?[/quote]

Hi K

[quote="Sir Tornado"]

unvote

Vote White

[/quote]

Much as i think white is in nead of death as well, bold posts = bad
[quote="Zeppo"][quote="Mastermind of Sin"][quote="Erg0"][quote="Mastermind of Sin"]Why is TVZ getting away with being scum? We should vote him more, plz.[/quote]

What he said. Zorg is wagonny, over-cautious and inconsistent.[/quote]

QFT! These guys are good.[/quote]
[quote="Mastermind of Sin"]Why is TVZ getting away with being scum? We should vote him more, plz.[/quote]
[quote="Mastermind of Sin"]More votes on Zorg would be nice. Let's see if he cracks under pressure [/quote]

Yep, we get it. I don't like how aggressively you go after Zorg. I reread his posts myself and really nothing particularly leaped out at me as scummy.

[quote="Mastermind of Sin"]

Unvote, Vote: booboodafool

Person C arguments are among the most accurate, in my opinion. Good catch, The Fonz[/quote]
And yet this is a Person C argument itself! It seems like you took an opportunity to just put pressure where you could.

Vote: MoS

[/quote]

I am advocating a white lynch in much the same way, why not single me out? also, this is the only time i have ever in this game aggreeded w/ a PC arguement. FoS MoS

[quote="ZONEACE"]there's still no F in my name guys. it hasn't changed.[/quote]

I know this post is long, however QFt

[quote="Flameaxe"][quote="WhiteyTheOppressor"]Flame: Oh, he's playing this game? Post more. Likely town I guess. [/quote]

More.[/quote]

WTF. [quote="White"][quote="Sim"]Ok, you didn't actually ask this but I think I know what you're getting at. I'm not having fun because I feel there are so many bad players, poor sports and people that think lurking is a playstyle in this game it's overwhelming. Jdodge, Yama, Kscope, TS. The list just goes on, I feel us as a town have a severe handicap because of people like the aforementioned because they utterly refuse to help in any way shape or form. It's like trying to play a game with a bunch of cheaters. How is that fun? It's not!

Now don't get me wrong, I am in no way shape or form saying i'm any better than any of these people. I am however actually playing the game whereas it seems there is a substancial portion of these players that are only here to be here, make a name for themselves, socialize, make friends, show that they are right and/or superior. It's stupid! This isn't a pissing contest, this is a game. Make sense?

Btw, feeling better about you with all your questions.[/quote]

I agree whole heartadly, and personally hope to be much more actuive. my biggest issue this game is with all the active lurking htat has pushed this gmae to 38 pgs

[quote="Patrick"]Conversation hasn't been slow, but if several people want it I could give you a deadline to help you reach a consensus.[/quote]

Yes Please

[quote="Toaster Strudel"]@ Simenon
If Kaleidoscope or The Fonz switch their votes, you'll be voting on a 2 person wagon yourself! [/quote]

Which means he is on a 4 person wagon. not suspicious in the least. however this statement is retarded.

Fos TS

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]Still sticking to my vote[/quote]

Hi K

[quote="The Fonz"]

unvote, vote Toaster Strudel

Scummy. You vote White if you think he's scum, not to force a claim (since, unless he's scum, a claim is a bad thing).[/quote]

I Don't think that was what he was talking about. he clearly seas white as scum, and this game is in desperate nead of content.

[quote="Toaster Strudel"][quote="The Fonz"]
More importantly...

@ Simenon

- hey, with Fonzie's vote switch, you are now one of those suspicious players that are on a 1-2 person wagon![/quote]

Actually, i think this statement has no metrit whatsoever.

[quote="White"]This town is not going to win at this rate.

I'm not buddying up to MoS, I see what he's been doing most recently as actual scumhunting, asking questions, making points. Saying i'm getting a townie vibe from someone is not buddying up. MoS is not being tunnelvisioned either.

TS! Let's hear your List of Suspicion why don't we.[/quote]

Day one not ending helps no one.

[quote="White"]Lol. Wow. Fine, run me up, when i'm hung just remember how fast the latter half of my wagon is growing.[/quote]

Waggons on the scummiest players in town are not good to analise imo

[quote="Simenon"]More later. However:
[quote]@ Simenon - hey, with Fonzie's vote switch, you are now one of those suspicious players that are on a 1-2 person wagon! [/quote]

Yes, you keep reinforcing this for some reason. Have you ever actually considered what I'm actually saying?

I'm very much opposed to the White lynch. Therefore:

Unvote
Vote TVZ

[/b][/quote]

Why?

[quote="White"]TS, still waiting on your scumdar.[/quote]

I think his scum dar is You

[quote="Simenon"]And yes, the reason I distrust the White wagon and think White is town was the result of my interrogation. I thought that would have been obvious.[/quote]

Its not.

[quote="Mastermind of Sin"]Sorry. I was out drinking last night.[/quote]

Wifom actually.

[quote="Toaster Strudel"][quote="Sir Tornado"]This post doesn't actually make sense to me.[/quote]
Simenon is a MASON... he's very opposed to a White lynch... put two and two together...

Giant FOS: anyone still voting for White

.

@MoS - I really, really don't see what's so special about Zorg. Whatever scent of scum he gives off, I must be immune to it. I read all the posts, and I just don't get it. But then again, I thought White was scum for sure, but obviously I was quite mistaken.[/quote]

UnVote, Vote White

Hope this answers questions here also,

FoS TS

[quote="Toaster Strudel"][quote="ZONEACE"]isn't Niv also a mason???? he's voting White.

so your logic is flawed.[/quote]
Well I don't know how these Masons work, and I don't want to push the issue because the last thing we need is a mass outing of Masons on Day 1.

But if Simenon says he is strongly opposed to a White lynch, he must have a strong reason. Maybe Niv isn't in on it, seeing that they had communication problems last night? I don't know.[/quote]

HoS TS

[quote="Toaster Strudel"][quote="ZONEACE"]As for Niv's vote, it looks from the previous post that he may not have kept up with the game, maybe he forgot White is his masonbuddy?

BTW - I am modding Food Fight Mafia, [/quote]

Are you really thinking I am that stupid? i may scrw up often, but i'm not a moron.

[quote="Toaster Strudel"]Interesting how some people started to vote for me because I wanted White to claim, and now I am forced to claim, which is not good. Interesting how the White wagon stalled, and my wagon took off like a rocket.

I don't know what I did wrong, but I apologize, whatever I did, I let the town down pretty bad, I have to be out Day 1.

Sadly, I'm a cop.[/quote]

Well aint that peachy. i love it when Cops play so poorly.

[quote="Lemming1607"][quote="Toaster Strudel"]Interesting how some people started to vote for me because I wanted White to claim, and now I am forced to claim, which is not good. Interesting how the White wagon stalled, and my wagon took off like a rocket.

I don't know what I did wrong, but I apologize, whatever I did, I let the town down pretty bad, I have to be out Day 1.

Sadly, I'm a cop.[/quote]

welp. I thought about it, and I'm not going to wait it out. I'm the cop.

I played aggressively today trying to hit the WIFOM sweet spot so that I don't get night killed and don't get lynched.

TS is scum.

VOTE: Toaster Strudel

I'm glad I didn't have to reread

There was no night 0 investigation, so I have not investigated yet

I did not get any special flavor for my role, just told I was a cop.[/quote]

Nice To know,

HoS TS

[quote="Simenon"]Better:
He's making it seem like he's counter claiming cop, but doesn't want to attract the nightkill. The "we could have multiple cops so no counterclaims" is a pretty obvious subclaim. But since we have two cops, the idea of MoS counter claiming is shot down.

This makes him by far the best lynch available.[/quote]

Or not. I May have been right about you at the stary

ByTW does Sim = LFR = Colin?

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]boobie is doing a nice job to fly under the radar. Everyone forgot about him already.[/quote]

Hi K

Still seing a white lynch. Want both cops to live to tomorow. also, we probally want to end the day soon. it is really lagging on. lastly, i hope to keep up better now

[Niv]

For people saying it was a bad idea to counter claim.

I'm not new to mafia. It's traditional in almost every single game I've ever played to have only 1 cop in the game, with possibly a backup. The way my PM was worded, if there's another cop, he had to have gotten the same PM that I got.

Now, people started saying there was the possibility of multiple cops early in the game.

HOW COULD THEY POSSIBLY KNOW THIS

The cops don't talk to each other, and I think its retarded to come into a game thinking there's more than one cop. That is just stupid playing to me.

Dethy setups, or multiple cops with varying sanities is like the Jester role to me. You don't go into a game assuming it, you play thinking there's one cop until you're proven otherwise.

I think TS is lying about his role, and I feel really uneasy that people SETUP the idea of multiple cops into the town's head.

I think scum put the thought of multiple cops into the town's head, allowing the scum to roleclaim cop to not get outted, and people will be like "oh sure might be multiple cops"



As for my early roleclaim...if I had waited to counter claim, what are the chances of me being believed? If there was a cop day 1 claiming, and I saw someone else counter claim cop 3 or 4 days later, I'd call bullshit immediately. So I'm doing it now for the believability factor, and I'm pretty damn sure he's lying.

I'm pretty sure scum are trying to make the town believe the possibility of multiple cops, and I say that's bullshit because you don't go into ANY game thinking there will be multiple cops, especially with the role flavor I got.

It's either I'm the only cop or it's dethy with the PM I got

Actually, i do belive you. and i am Iffy on TS, leaning scum. i still think we lynchh white today, then tomorow, we go back, get vesti's outa both players, then go from there

Yes my name is colin. What's an lfr?

There is a playr on MTGS (lookingForReality) that on Wifom posts under the Username of Colin. i thought hering all of this colin, that all three were the same

and before you say that me counter claiming cop is not proof, I agree. YOU CAN NEVER BE 100% SURE OF SOMEONE BEING SCUM UNTIL THEY CARDFLIP. So saying stuff like "prove he's scum" is retarded, you can only go on suspicions. Even a cop investigation of scum isn't proof, and town as well with the different roles we have.

There is no way possible in this game to prove someone is scum/not scum until they cardflip, and your suspicions are the only thing you're going to be voting on

That is way to may words for such a simple concept

Zeppo is not dead enough. He's like TS-lite; there's not even that claim to worry about. Kill him. Now.

I don't feel like defending the multiple cops theory even though it would theoretically be valid.

Why Zeppo, are there not better candidates?

[Niv]

Whelp, Lemming comes across to me as being the far more convincing of the two cops. So the question I have to ask myself now is could there be multiple cops? Sure there could. But it's far from guaranteed. I have my suspicions of other players, namely those that I voted for, but I wasn't dead certain about any of them. So for now at least TS seems the best lynch,

Vote: Toaster Strudel

What the Hell?

WE wait till tomorow, and get results from our two cops, then we might linch one of them. also, i think TS should claim results first o-course. hoever this fote for him right now is useless

I don't see why a claim should save TS from being lynched if that claim is not believed. If I thought there was a better lynch than TS I would be voting for that person. I'll post saying why I feel Lemming is more convincing than TS when I get the chance, hopefully today or tomorrow, but I've gotta dash now.

One of my favroite lines "you can belive something 100% and stil be wrong". and is this something we want to risk losing a cop over

[Niv]

I will State Now.

MoS is correct. LLemming Shape up, or ask to be replaced. as far as i am concerned, Mos will go nowhere unless he is dead

I will not Vote a claimed cop on nightless Day one. Still feel that White is a correct linch.

[Niv]

I am pming the mod with a request that Lemming be forceably replaced out of this game. I suggest that you all follow suit. There is no point in playing with someone who insists on playing like a retard and flaming people repeatedly out of immaturity. At least ZONEACE is actually playing the game, even if it's in his style to use AdHom. Lemming is just being immature and annoying as hell. I don't want him in this game anymore.

The irony...

it's not ironic, I was making fun of you.

How is this useful in any way, shape or form. Lemming, Please stop. @ mod: Can we have some form of comment on your oponion on this whole MoS - Lem thing?[/b]

[Niv]

White is at lynch -1, he seems to have vanished, and he's not claiming.

I see that as further sign that he is scum.

He's a -1 for a deadline lynch, a deadline thats 10 days away. theres a huge difference. Nice job with the facts though. you know what. TS probably is the way to go today. then white tomorrow.

unvote vote Toaster Strudel

This is an interesting vote move.

White was a lynch -1. ZONEACE here was among the voters.

When I complained that White appeared to have vanished, and that White is not claiming at a time when he should, ZONEACE removed his vote from

White

and decided to it was a better idea to lynch a cop.

Opinions?

I think that your the best lynch right now, ignoring claims. i'd put it more that you are scum than town, however, i don't like to take risks. Apparently Z does take risks.

[Niv]

Okay. Provide a reasonable alternative.

Your absolute determination to lynch claimed cop is noted.

Returning to my earlier booboo vote would be my strongest preference (his 'I don't even see WHY I should have to defend myself from person C allegations' line when that very tell has caught scum plenty o' times before is very scummy) whilst amongst those with fairly large wagons on 'em atm, Zorg is the scummiest.

I still find person C a useless tell. but thats just me. and i still don't like you using it, again, just me.

White was a lynch -1. ZONEACE here was among the voters.

Once again, your facts are flawed. He was at -1 for a DEADLINE LYNCH. That means he has to be AT 7 VOTES WHEN THE DEADLINE HITS. That deadline is still 9 days away. it wasnt like if he got 1 more vote he would be lynched and the day would end. That is not -1 my dear. You just keep making up facts, and claimed cop or no, making up facts is VERY SCUMMY. So i don't care that you claimed cop because you are making yourself look the scummiest, and to me, thats always a good person to lynch.

QFT. i just don't risks. expect to die tomorow, regardless of result.

I will not be able to post content until tonight or next monday. I have an Ultimate tournament this weekend.

Ultimate disc. are serious. that's awsome

[Niv]

QFT. i just don't risks. expect to die tomorow, regardless of result.

You mean you aren't going to believe TS if she gets someone guilty?

highly likley

[Niv]

I find it an extraordinarily useful tell, so the onus is on you (and booboo) to demonstrate why it isn't, if you don't want it used. Do you not accept that scum have reason to hide behind other people's arguments in order to cause mislynches without being too strongly associated with the lynch? In the same way I think any vote made with the justification 'we're nearing deadline and any lynch is better than none' is scummy.

It's not that i don't see it here. i don't see it ever.

The way i look at it, both scum and town shamlessly bandwagon often. scum quite often do hide behind the resoning of others. however also, I have fowund in my games that i have played. townies often are lazy, especially the vanillas. townies will do it almost as often imo. there for to me, i find this whole arguement as total wifom./

[Niv]

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]Hi scum. Nice weather, no?[/quote]

Who are you talking to?

[Niv]

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]Since when do you care what I say?[/quote]

I care what everyone says. i just generally like to point out what you say. i was hoping youn't got worse. now you have gone from accusing people w/o reasons to acusing secret people w/o reasons

[Niv]

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"][quote="Niv"][quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]Since when do you care what I say?[/quote]

I care what everyone says. i just generally like to point out what you say. i was hoping youn't got worse. now you have gone from accusing people w/o reasons to acusing secret people w/o reasons [/quote]If I'm not quoting, it adresses the poster above me.[/quote]

Thank you

[quote="The Fonz"]Not quite. A person C voter is a bandwagoner who hides behind someone else's argument in doing so.[/quote]

i am quite sure this is the definition of a bandwagoner, therefore, I disagree with tthis logic entirely still

[quote="Zeppo"]That if they actually are a cop and the scum decide to night kill them (even assuming there is no doc protection on them that would make them waste their night kill completely) then it means someone else didn't get night killed, sparing the life of a useful townie.[/quote]

UnVote White, Vote Zeppo

Cop = extremly useful. you are saying that dead cops = good. this is just wron. This is retarded.

[quote="Zeppo"]^Having another useful townie spared is a bonus, and the clincher for me. I can see the advantage of having the two investigations whether they are true or false to work off later in the game but that alone didn't seem enough to spare a suspected scum.[/quote]

This only makes it worse

[quote="JDodge"]

Unvote, vote: Zeppo

[/quote]

@ fonzie: is this a person C vote or a bandwagon votre?

[Niv]

Hi K. Didn't i start the whole saying hi to lurkers thing. you's is stellin' ma thunder

[Niv]

niv regained nusy status. streem of concious w/in the nex day or soi

[Niv]

OK, Sry, no time to catch up. Happy with my Vote on Zeppo. I find him one of the scummy players, as well as i don't want a day one no lynch, there for, my vote is fine here.

[Niv]

If my math is accurate, Zeppo will be lynched in 2 hrs, so speak now or forever hold your peace

[Niv]

oh, great. Now we're gonna get a guy in here who's gonna be all like, I don't know what zorg was thinking! Give me a clean slate! ffs...

Why would we give him a clean slate. people have to live with te past actions of their role. however, I really don't like the way mos wrote this post. it irkes me.

Happy scumday, Vote MoS

[Niv]

back, readfing up.

get readdy for one of my catch up posts

[Niv]

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]I don't

Vote: Zorg

[/quote]

Hi K

[quote="ZONEACE"]MULTIPLE COPS IS NOT BROKEN.


MULTIPLE COPS IN A GAME THIS SIZE IS COMMON.



This is something we need to understand and accept. That said.

vote lemming

you're still scum[/quote]

I agree w/ statement one, disagree w/ statement 2. yes there can pheasabally be 2 cops, however, lemming, imo at this time is not vote worthy, mabye after everything goes down

[quote="Mastermind of Sin"][quote="Lemming1607"]Also for the record, that was the main reason I FoS'd MoS yesterday. The fact that he came out with the possibility of multiple cops so early is odd to me. Multiple cops in a game is pretty broken unless they have different sanities, making it a sort of mini dethy, or the scum has some crazy roles to balance.

Or maybe there's something in the game that heavily balances multiple cops.

Or occam's razor and Toaster is lying[/quote]

[quote="Lemming1607"][quote="ZONEACE"]MULTIPLE COPS IS NOT BROKEN.


MULTIPLE COPS IN A GAME THIS SIZE IS COMMON.



This is something we need to understand and accept. That said.

vote lemming

you're still scum[/quote]

I just said that since we don't know the setup we can't assume it's broken. Why are you intentionally misreading what I said[/quote]

These two statements don't actually line up. You're strawmanning on semantics.[/quote]

QFT

[quote="Lemming1607"][quote="ZONEACE"]why are you so worried about the town having an advantage UNLESS AN TOWN ADVANTAGE PUTS YOU IN DANGER




listen you are so obviously scum its sad, you keep trying to distract the town with the stink you're raising about the cops, hoping we all won't see just how truly scummy you are. Can we please just kill this guy?[/quote]

You have got to be the shittiest troll I've ever seen[/quote]

The debate going on between both of you is insane. i say you should both stop

[quote="Simenon"]Good God Zoneace is an idiot.

Vote KaleiÐoscøpe

Reasons later.[/quote]

Sweet post Sim

[quote="Erg0"][quote="Toaster Strudel"]I have a guilty, so I think I should go last. It's going to rush the day, and reduce the amount of information we gather from it.[/quote]

I don't think that's necessarily a safe assumption to make. It will only rush the day if we believe you.[/quote]

If only we were in a posisition to belive you to begin with

Wow, guilty on lem, lynch him now.

At this poit i'd probally be votin TS

[quote="The Fonz"]Guys- at this point, a claim from me is unavoidable.

I am a tracker. I followed TS last night, and TS performed no night action.[/quote]

Vote TS

[quote="Simenon"]By the way, we are lynching one of Zoneace and SirT tomorrow. Preferably ZONEACE[/quote]

Then y were you votin K prior to this cclaim?

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]Heh. Alright, then explain to me the sudden switch to Sir Tornado and ZONEACE for tomorrow if you're so suspicious of me.[/quote]

QFT, best post by K all game.

[quote="Simenon"]Because I'd be willing to wager rl money on Lemming being town. ZONEACE was attacking Lemming aggressively and I think SirT tried to invent a contradiction in Lemming's posts where there really was none. I can imagine a situation where TS told her scumbuddies to set up a lemming lynch while she was on the fence.

And I'm not really that suspicious of you. You were in the grey area until you voted Zorg. I needed to see how you would respond.[/quote]

Did you not see how lem attacked Zone? i still say that there interactions are ipossibale eto get scum town reads out of.
[quote="Simenon"][quote="ZONEACE"]

un vote vote TS

I'd just like to point out the Simeon has no basis for his case, and if anyone would read what i was saying yesterday I was attacking TS already thinking she was lying.[/quote]

My "case" was that you were aggressively attacking lemming. How is that incorrect?

Or in other words, you are misrepresenting any "case" that I have.

Getting nervous?[/quote]

Sim, ur goin nuts.

No reall coment on the page of zone/sim. its alll nuts

This game is going nuts.

Personally, i don't mind being the hammer of this. i just want this insane discussion to end.

Confirm Vote TS

[Niv]

UnVote, Confirm Vote TS

[Niv]

TS, i take it ur the GF

[Niv]

Godcoptor,

onlything better than this is a Modcopter

[Niv]

GodCopTor - you may kill someone at night, you may protect someone at night. you may invistagee someone at night, and just beacuse your a helicoptor, you can only be killed if your asailent can fly

[Niv]

Due to threats on my life if I don't comply, I'm changing Toaster Strudel's role name to "Mafia Godmother" for political correctness.

*notthreatening*

Not thrilled with Flare or Scøpe, but let's go with a

vote: Sir Tornado

for his 1206.

I forgot to ask this yesterday: was I missing something between JDodge and White?

I'm on limited access as well--until Sunday.

That's pretty scummy, but what happened to being suspicious of Zorg/BM? I'm pretty sure there is a much better case for them to be scum atm.

Vote: Battle Mage

I believe I was roleblocked. My flavor was basically "investigation failed" and no other flavor.

So the mafia had a godfather and a roleblocker (I highly doubt a protown roleblocker would be stupid enough to block you). The solution to this is simple. If we have a watcher (we have a tracker and a cop, why not a watcher? It balances out the scum power roles, at least), they should watch lemming tonight. This way the scum have to give up their roleblocker to the watcher or let lemming investigate someone. Either way, we get another scum out of the deal, and lemming can start investigating again.

Vote MoS

: This is abisimal logic.

If we were to direct the watcher to the cop, and If we have a watcher, he will se see 2 people target our doc, the RBKER and our Doc. Our watcher claims results and we lose our doc. tell me how this plan is useful?

[Niv]

I forget Jdoge was in the game.....

[Niv]

I'd like to point out that had i been listened to, our tracker would still be alive.

Quit fishing.

Also, since it's bound to come up at some point: I don't consider MoS's power role direction to be as bad as ZONEACE's.

The issue w/ mos' power role directing is that he was proposing a plan that wouldn't work in the slightest

[Niv]

It wasn't completely useless, but you're correct in saying that it was flawed. Having said that, I didn't see the problem immediately and thought it was a decent idea on the face of it. Based on that, I have to accept that it's possible that MoS just didn't see the problem.

From what I have heard, Is mos not better than making a misjudgement in this manner?

[Niv]

I thought i did this awhile ago.

UnVote MoS, Vote Flare

I suspected him day one, then he fell off the face of the earth. no that he is semi back, i think that he is the best place for a vote

[Niv]

Hmm, Bookitty makes a decent point about the TS reactions to Zorg and Flare. Flare is definitely my second suspect at this point, so I could probably be persuaded to vote him if his responses aren't good enough. This is of course, assuming that BM *does* do something worthwhile. He hasn't done it so far.

He was scummy, then went into uber lurk mode. what more ist here to ask for?

[Niv]

Glad to hear it BM. also, @ elmo, what is your reason for beliving in flare's absence to be logical

[Niv]

I believe Flare is IH's alt?

Hey, IH is also sick. What. A coincidence!

in that case, i'd be willing to let the current lurk aside, however, that doesn't excuse him from the current scummy behiviour

[Niv]

Shortly can't come soon enough. My patience is wearing thin.

QED

[Niv]

Can we get a prod on Yamahako? His last post was a week ago:

When under scrutiny, I have not lurked. Thus my condemnation of Flare's "defense" is not hypocrisy.

Lurking as a

defense tactic

will continue to work until players stop letting it.

I have made no attempt to attack lurkers this game, and have made no specific defense about my own lack of posting.

I do have a problem with people who disappear when they are under attack, and support the idea of not letting such a thing slide.

You're under scrutiny right now, so why aren't you posting? You have the most votes of anyone in the game, so where is your high horse now?

QFT,

UnVote, Vote Y.

missed that post however, with 's current situation, he is most certanally the master of hypocracy

[Niv]

just a quick aside, whats with this site and all the replacements?

also, Y strikes little confidence in me, loking like the best option entireally.

[Niv]

Vote : Zoneace

I realize you're knew to the game and all, so you may have missed it, but I'm town.

well i laughed reading this any accusations scruffs? or do we just go off of your bold only post?

[Niv]

-2 please claim.

[Niv]

with all this going on, is everyone forgeting Y is at minus two. also, people accusing me, why am i scum?

[Niv]

with all this going on, is everyone forgeting Y is at minus two. also, people accusing me, why am i scum?

Post 950 mainly.

is it that you don't like the streem of conciousness style, or soething in particular within that ost?

[Niv]

vote : bookitty

Vote Boo

. yay cop (if this isn't cop alluding to a guilty, someone needs to inform me ;[))

[Niv]

not much to say. reading over the official Boo case, i do belve that is a legimate place for my vote, it stands.

[Niv]

[quote="Simenon"]Lynch Wagon Starter-Post:

[quote]Mastermind of Sin (4) -- Flare, The Venerable Zorg, Simenon, Lemming1607

White

(3) -- Sir Tornado,

Yamahako

,

Toaster Strudel

The Venerable Zorg (4) -- Beastly,

Erg0

, Aimee,

The Fonz

Toaster Strudel

(1) -- ZONEACE

Zeppo

(7) -- Ether, Setael, Mastermind of Sin, JDodge, Niv,

Flameaxe

, KaleiÐoscøpe

Not Voting: booboodafool,

White

,

Zeppo

22 alive, 12 to lynch. 7 to lynch at deadline.

Battle Mage (1) -- Mastermind of Sin

Toaster Strudel

(10) --

Erg0

,

The Fonz

, Simenon, KaleiÐoscøpe, Bookitty, ZONEACE,

Yamahako

,

Setael the first

, Sir Tornado, Niv

Not voting: Aimee,

Toaster Strudel

, JDodge, Ether, Lemming1607, Battle Mage, Flare, Beastly,
19 alive, 10 to lynch.

Bookitty (1) -- KaleiÐoscøpe
Battle Mage (1) -- Aimee
Mastermind of Sin (2) --

Yamahako

, Battle Mage
Yamahako (9) -- Ether, Simenon, Bookitty, JDodge, ZONEACE, Niv, Mastermind of Sin,

Erg0

, Setael
ZONEACE (1) -- Skruffs

Not voting: Sir Tornado, Elmo
16 alive, 9 to lynch. 5 to lynch at deadline.[/quote]

1) Korejora (replacing Aimee)

-- Did not vote Zeppo (voted zorg, now battle mage), Did not vote Toaster Strudel (was not voting), Did not vote Yamahako (voted battle mage)

2) Simenon

-- Did not vote Zeppo (voted mastermind_of_sin), Voted Toaster Strudel, Voted Yamahako

5) JDodge (replacing ckillor)

-- Voted Zeppo, Did not vote Toaster Strudel (was not voting), Voted Yamahako

6) Ether (replacing Honary Hitchhiker)

-- Voted Zeppo, Did not vote Toaster Strudel (was not voting), Voted Yamahako

7) Sir Tornado

-- Did not vote Zeppo (voted white), Voted Toaster Strudel, Did not vote Yamahako (was not voting)

8) Mastermind of Sin

-- Voted Zeppo, Did not vote Toaster Strudel (voted battle mage), Voted Yamahako

10) Skruffs

(replacing Lemming1607) -- Did not vote Zeppo (voted Mastermind of Sin), Did not vote Toaster Strudel (was not voting), Did not vote Yamahako (voted zoneace)

11) ZONEACE

-- Did not vote Zeppo (voted toaster strudel), Voted Toaster Strudel, Voted Yamahako

13) Battle Mage (replacing The Venerable Zorg)

-- Did not vote Zeppo (voted mastermind of sin), Did not vote Toaster Strudel (was not voting), Did not vote Yamahako (voted mastermind of sin)

15) Setael II (replacing Flare)

-- Did not vote Zeppo (voted Mastermind of Sin), Did not vote Toaster Strudel (was not voting), Voted Yamahako

16) KaleiÐoscøpe

-- Voted Zeppo, Voted Toaster Strudel, Did not vote Yamahako (voted bookitty

17) Elmo (replacing Beastly)

-- Did not vote Zeppo (voted the venerable zorg), Did not vote Toaster Strudel (was not voting), Voted Yamahako

18) Niv

-- Voted Zeppo, Voted Toaster Strudel, Voted Yamahako

21) Bookitty

(replacing booboodafool, replacing Celtic18) -- Did not vote Zeppo (was not voting), Voted Toaster Strudel, Voted Yamahako[/quote]

I dont get how this works/helps

[quote="Bookitty"]All right, I'll claim. It's traditional, after all.

I'm a mason.[/quote]

yes you are

[Niv]

ebwodp, nevermind, didn't realise it was a quote in a quote.

[Niv]

i'm falling behind, i need to catch up, probally not toningt,hjappy new year/my 18th is tomorow

[Niv]

UnVote

This may sound stupid, but i don;t know where i stopped following this game, could someone inform me

[Niv]

Re reading. wont do usual total stream, to much

I haven't talked to Niv since he went on about ignoring his pms.

I have reciveed but one pm from you since the start of the game. and that was the one that caused me to out you. so how am I ignoring my pm's.

I have aso rcived tree pm's from ether, aside from that nothing, further reading, i see that you guys have all been talking, why am I being excluded.

also, My Boo vote was based on posting.

At this point,

UnVote, Vote Sim

Sim imo, form what i am reading up to top of page 79, you are total scum. I'm actually gettign tired of reading all this bull.

as ikeep reading, BM finds me suspicoius, not much i can think f to defend against tose acuusations for those posts, other than posts like 1334 are the style i liketo do, also, i have this knack for pointing out the obvious, also, why is my hammar bad?

having read the posts, I find sim by far the scuiest. i see the case on BM, and would be ok with his lynch. however i personally would like to lynch sim.

also, hopwto keep up from now on.

[Niv]

Niv, have you read the arguments for why we aren't lynching the masons today?

yes, but have you read sim?

[Niv]

This is an oficial, i just recieved a prod post.

the reason for why I'm not posting. i'm becoming disintrested in this game.

I find sime the most scummy of everyone, and by the logic we've been using, were not going to lynch any of the masons. even when sim, boo and even my self have all played a poor game is some aspect. I am now forced to look for scum among the rest of the town, even though I am truly in the belif that Sim is scum in some way. yes i understan that there is scum outside of the mason group, but yust he way i am thinking, there is no way to ballence a 5 man mason group without putting at least one scum into it. if that scum is a traitor, then wehn outed we have up to agroup of 4 confirmed townies running around. however if the scum is a full fledged mafiaso, then, were bacallay just a group of vanilla townies that can night talk. (yes i know that's what a mason group i but you get the point.) all in all if we have a traitor it is way too powerful imo. we really need to be going after the scummiest players in the game. and the fact that they are for the most part all in the mason group should make no real diffrence. another thing, If Simis the scum, then myself, ether and Boo are confirmed. I also cannot see it as plausable that the SK is amoung the masons. if he was, as soon as the masons are outed, mafia can start hitting them, and if it got down to a point where there is only a few masons remaning, we will then have a sk fighting such an imopssible battle that it will be even hader than usual for the sk to win.

after my thoghts have been put down i reach theconclusion of a

Vote Sim

[Niv]

Just like we could be wrong about which mason is the traitor, the mafia could also be wrong if they decide to start NKing claimed masons. I don't think the mafia are going to spend NKs on someone who might be their traitor, which is why I still think we should not lynch a mason today. If we happen to lynch correctly and the traitor dies, our masons are then all vulnerable to NKs. It is invaluable to the town to have masons alive at end game, so I see no benefit to wagoning masons. Rather, we have negative side effects if we guess wrong and kill a protown mason, and negative side effects if we guess right and kill the traitor this early.

I think the best course would be for everyone to continue analyzing the play of all the claimed masons, while not letting it consume the thread. We need to be looking elsewhere to find the actual mafia. I will reread within the next 2 days.

If you could present a solid counter to this, Niv, then I would more seriously consider following you onto a mason lynch. I still think it's too early to go after them, even if we caught scum last night.

I belive myareguement was that th scum mason is not a traitor. the way i look at it, had the anti town traitor dies early, we have 4 unidentified confirmed townies just hidden away for late game. also, if the scum mason dies, i think its a good thing the masons start eating NK's, it protects any remaning town power roles we still have.

[Niv]

Niv, just so you know, there are probably a lot of us who agree with you that Simenon is the most likely "untrustworthy" mason. That doesn't mean he should be today's lynch.

What do you think of Sir Tornado?

I couldn't tell you anything that sticks out in my mind about him either way, and that in its self is the biggest point against him for me

[Niv]

why do other people think that it is a traitor? imo it has to be a full mafiso because otherwisewith luck we get 4 confirmed tonies out of the deal

[Niv]

Niv, are you reading the thread? Why do you think TS fished for mason identities if the mafia already know them all?

Why does scum do anything? i do not know.

[Niv]

also, can I ask everyone to post, If they were to lynh a mason, who it would be?

[Niv]

Hmmm.

Niv, what did you think was especially convincing about Setael's case on me?

It made sense.

And on thinking about it some more:

@Niv: What exactly is your case against Simenon?

I don't think i have formally prepared one, due to lack of time, however i have nothing to do this weekend. however i think a quick read of sim, people will see it. so right now it really is gut.

[Niv]

Niv, what made sense about it? I'm looking for some specific accusations that you agreed with. Do you still think it makes sense? Why or why not?

I am going to be quite honest here and say "I don't remember" anything other than that it made sence. also, the fact that i currentally think your town means that i no longet think it makes sence

So, your three big ideas are:

Simenon hasn't done anything of note, so he's probably scum.
He's a mafia mason, because it would be cool if we got four confirmed townies.
I do not know what scum does.

Those are brilliant reasons to lynch someone.

actually my "big ideas" are that A) the method of which you outed ether, B) terrible play yesterday revolving around how you handeled the situation you put yourself in, C) the vibe in which you have been posting all game. D) the fact that one of us has to be some form of scum and that between myself, ether, Boo and yourself, you are the wors imo. Also, the way you posted this is quite misrepersentational

Niv, am I correct, based on your previous posts, that this is your argument for my lynch?

Ether, why exactly is MoS town?

Setael, same question.

And actually, Simenon, Niv, do you think MoS is town?

Up until today i have not seen any scuminess in mos, however his complete 180 on Z makes me think otherwise.

[Niv]

Freeking tags

[Niv]

Up until today i have not seen any scuminess in mos, however his complete 180 on Z makes me think otherwise.

How the fuck is going from "He should not be lynched today" to "He might be scum because he's *still* not contributing" at 180? They aren't even related statements!!!!

I belive moshas argued tat this is how Z plays as town an this has been a consistant positpn. Z's play hasnot changed, butnow mos finds him scummy. i see that as a 180.

[Niv]

"this" refers to the fact that ZONEACE is always angry and aggressive. That has nothing to do with how much he contributes to the game. However, BooKitty has made the very good point that ZONEACE's reaction to my suspicion of him was very

unlike

him, yet you assert that his play has not changed? Please get your facts straight.

If your point is that Z normally starts contibuting, then I see your point

Also, looking over JD's posts. there really is absoultally nothing there.

UnVote, Vote JD

Also, at this point in the game, what are everyone's oponions on a mass claim?

[Niv]

Also, at this point in the game, what are everyone's oponions on a mass claim?

Could people please answer this?

Also, JD, you're at -1 and should claim at this point regardless.

[Niv]

I'd love to see some specifics please. or at least vague reasoning

[Niv]

the spotlight accents my beautiful smile

Are you going to claim/defend yourself or should we just lynch you.

[Niv]

the spotlight accents my beautiful smile

Are you going to claim/defend yourself or should we just lynch you.

Are you going to hide in the shadows in plain sight as you have all game or are you going to state a case to respond to?

Nobody else answer this. I want Niv to for a reason.

My reason for voting you is as follows:

all you have done all game pretty much is post one liners and then not respond to anything people say. and also you have yet to post any reasoning/logic behind any of your suspicions/votes.

you have done Nothing.

BTW you say i have hid all game, which i have not imo. I am fairly certain no one else would say that. I have tried to post as often as possible here excluding the period where i forgot about the game.

[Niv]

I know I've been proded, however i worked 13 hrs today. post tomorow.

[Niv]

The vast majority of your posts are also one-liners; while they seem to look "contributory", they are lacking in pure

opinion

of other players - something you would do as scum to try and avoid accountability as much as possible.

I am prety much sure that I have stated oponions in my posts. and i don't know why you would even say something like this.

this is in NO WAY a defense of MOS, i'm pretty indifferent, but Bookitty, could you be trying to force this case on MOS any harder. I mean honestly, you're acting like a damn lyncher at this point (no im not saying you are). Its just annoying and a bit scummy.

This quote here sums up my oponions on the mos Boo debate perfectally. while if your town and feel that mos is scum, your posts seam to be scrounging, finding that you are unable to make a good case. and if your scum your just forcing out a poor case.

tick

tock

tick

tock

Wern't you just going at me for not contributing/ making posts that are unhelpful?

ZONEACE, I would argue I pushed a much harder case against Simenon. It was certainly more than three posts worth. Why didn't that one bother you enough to comment on? Three posts are enough to overcome your "indifference", when a great many more did not?

That's one of the reasons ive been suspicious of you. You're trying WAY TOO HARD.

i can't reach a breaking point?

ive been keeping mum about the ridiculous pushes most of the game but ive notcied them. They're getting tired.

Z is making allot of sence right now, and really can's see him being scum.

Setael:

If JDodge is lynched, as seems likely right now, and he is scum, you've as much as said that this would implicate me. (I believe you directly said that I was defending him and distracting from his lynch.) What if he's town? Would that equally implicate me? Who would be implicated if JDodge is lynched and turns out to be town?

I don't think him turning up town would psh me either way, him turning up scum, hich is likley, would however look bad.

Ok I am going to claim now. I am the vig.

This may look odd timed, but I think it is necessary I make myself a mafia NK target to make sure none of the masons, whose survival I deem extremely necessary for the town to win, are taken out on N5. And, I am willing to take a straw poll among everyone for the night kill. Also, I think that mafia would have figured this out already by now.

Who should I NK tonight? Right now, I am looking at one of MoS/JDodge/Setael/Elmo.

I would also like to hear your thoughts on White, and why you think mafia would want to kill White on N1. (because I killed Flameaxe)

personally i would go JD if he lives through the day, which i doubt

Which was his N1 kill?

Are you even reading the thread

Ether: Why are you answering questions addressed to Sir T?

poits like this are why your the current lynch target.

Setael: what the hell kind of serial killer would kill Flameaxe and Sc­øpe?

also, what kind of sk would skip his kil multiple nights?

Do you believe Sir Tornado's claim, Ether?

Not directed at me but yes.

JDodge, precisely what kinda defence does that constitute?

Shush. Waiting for Niv - I haven't seen enough from Niv to really think anything of him yet, so I want to get as much about Niv into the spotlight as possible.

I don't even really see what your waiting for?

Why is JDodge so focused on a mason?

Beacuse the mason is so focused on him.

Why is JDodge so focused on a mason?

Because we still need info on everyone we can get. Why is Creepo so focused on JDodge?

B/C JD is insanley scummy

Also, MoS, I disagree with you regards to masons.

The central point in town's policy should be that we should try to get rid of everyone who is not a mason. That way, we can win the game.

Assuming mafia traitor scenario, town doesn't have to lynch the untrustworthy mason.

Setael, claiming power role for no reason is suicidal for a SK, especially with doctor dead. The optimal play for the sk is to remain out of limelight. If I were SK, I would have lost whatever chance I had of winning the game once I claim vig.

I am curious to know how my last ditch defence of BM fits into your "Tornado is SK theory".

Also, a SK is anti-scum too. So, if the scum feels I am a SK, then I am as much dead as I would be if scum beleive the vig claim. It makes no sense for me to claim vig right now if I am a sk (and, no this is not WIFOM)

I agree.

Lastly few thoughts:

1: why has JD not claimed? he has been at -2 so long, and nothing came of it. he was even at -1 at one point, and still didn't claim.

also, sould we really vig someone without them claimiong?

[Niv]

Apologies, didn't notice the game restarted. yes, i find mos the most scummy mainly over Z.

While Z may not have been the most helpful all game, I get an extremely townish vibe. also, looking back, I have really only got the "scummy vibe" off of anyone else. i mostly pick this up when he constantally says that for the fist few days that he was town. then, he changes to believing that there is a scum Z among us. Much as I understand his logic around why he changed his view, looking back now it really rubs me the wrong way.

Also, Sorry Ether, I thought i set you the reasoned list, however apparently i can click "send message" and the message chooses to not send, apologies

[Niv]

Also, one other thing i just thought of, we have a traitor among the non masons, therefore, the odds of the bad mason being mafia are slim to none now.

[Niv]

Does anyone else think that we could catch/clear anyone with a mass claim?

[Niv]

apparentally i forgot to menton here that iwas out of town for a week. Sorry guys.

Although my activity here has been less than stellar.

Sorry, Sorry, Sorry.

[Niv]

Note: I'm currently without home internet access. If Niv wants to replace back in for Mizzy, that's fine, provided there aren't huge periods of inactivity.

There will not be.

looking at what we have going on, i am starting to become really suspiciopus oif Kore. the lack of opoinion moments are quite compeleing. An i am possibly seeing that a night may truly help the town here. as i think at least one person finds everyone scvummy. limiting the possibilities for tomorow could really help.

Kore, do you have any claim that could possibly keep you alive?

Also, psuedo vote Kore pendining anything from him before i put him a -1

[Niv]

Plot twist!

As I see it, you aren't getting a fifth voter anytime soon. Unless someone threatens to lynch me, I see no reason to claim.

I would see this as go ahead to

Vote Kore

[Niv]

Ether: If we were to lynch a mason today, ant they were to come up scum. Where woud you be looking tomorow?

[Niv]

in the way that it makes you feel stupid beacuse you doubt that Patrick would have put 2 scum into a five man masonry, or beacuse you don't think that anyone else would still be looking at masons, and that you couldn't get a lynch on one, beacuse of the reason above.

Or is there some other reason?

[Niv]

The way Kore puts their case on Satel, it is quite a compelling argument. I am actually quite interested in hearing a rebuttal

[Niv]

I'd like to know what you think is compelling and why. Also, if you expect a rebuttal from me I think you should be providing content yourself. Let's have a scum list from ya, Niv. (Be careful not to list me as scum JUST because you like Kore's case because that's actually exactly what she's accusing me of and you wouldn't want to be a hypocrite now, would you?)

actually i din'tlike the case, it felt kinda weak to me, as the points against you were actually quite fiew. i wanted to see what you would say in responce. in fact i am actually more inclined to remain on Kore after reading that "case"

[Niv]

Who do you think is the most likely pair, assuming your theory is correct?

Good question; all I've decided is that you/Colin is the least likely. (

unvote; vote: Niv

) I know that's only half an answer; I don't really have a full one.

Did you note that Zorg's last post was on October 20th, that Zeppo was lynched October 28th, and that Battle Mage did not replace in until November 1? Does that change any of your opinions about "optimal play" by scum in this game?

Haven't we been over this? Presumably the mafia would have, like, tried to contact Zorg. To plan stuff. Like who to roleblock. Scum tend to do that.

I have no idea what you and MoS are arguing about.

How Nice of you. Why? Not why you find me scummy, I think people have allredy expressed that. What i am wondering is why you think that Colin/Boo are an unlikley pair. and what you will do when i come up scum? since you belive that they are mutually exclusive, or close to it, would you start looking at 1 scum mason and one one non mason scum. or would you just lynch both Sim and Boo, hoping that they are bothscum?

[Niv]

How Nice of you. Why? Not why you find me scummy, I think people have allredy expressed that. What i am wondering is why you think that Colin/Boo are an unlikley pair. and what you will do

when i come up scum?

since you belive that they are mutually exclusive, or close to it, would you start looking at 1 scum mason and one one non mason scum. or would you just lynch both Sim and Boo, hoping that they are bothscum?

Care to explain this particular comment, Niv?

I know you can't really prove this, IRL i actually have an issue where i will say something, but hear myself say somethng else completally diffrent in my head. it gets really anoying when your mind starts messing with you like that. Obviousallly it should read town, but i just wasn't thinking right there.

[Niv]

Actually Sim, The correct responce is the truth, which i told.

[Niv]

Still firly belive Z to be town. i don't see how that last post makes any more diffrence

[Niv]

UnVote, Vote Setael.

Z is not scum, And I would like to prevent his deadline lynch. and if we are chosing between Z and satel now, well, sorry satel.

[Niv]

Satel, Do you have any parting words?

[Niv]

prob Lyol today. therefore using Fos

FoS Sim, MoS, Kore.

somesort of reeread neccarry obv. . will hope to do this weekend

[Niv]

I think Nivscum would have stayed back (though I don't have a meta on him). Niv/Kore? Meh.

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=104799 In progrss

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=102909Only game i was ever some sort of scum, (unknowing traitor)

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=91371

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=95107
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=93461
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=82737
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=80123 Newb Game

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=77513 Newb game

also plaed a few games here, but those ca be found by viewing my posts i belive

[Niv]

I'm going to agree that we should lynch a mason today, so by that, i will probally still be leaning sim, but i will look back and re read him sometime in the next couple days, and try to prepare something. also, going to look at the non masons as well. infact i'll prob just do quick reread again

[Niv]

It is challenging to read Niv's posts. Are all those smileys really necessary?

Post 43 Niv votes me "for no reason" before he actually claims his information. It seems remarkably coincidental.

Post 118. Blatant mischaracterization. The comment "My pm does not say to speak sparingly" =/= "my role pm says something along the lines of the factthat i am quite possitivve that someone canot be trusted in our masonry."

Post 250Someone who jumps to the conclusion of a neutral tends to be scum, especially since "you have not a protown move this game" would seem to indicate a scum more than a neutral.

Post 736"are you not even reading the game?" sounds a bit bizarre here. "Little weird coming from me, however, Why Sim?" suggests he knew all along that his reasons for attacking me at the beginning of the game did not deserve all of the enthusiasm that he displayed.

Post 1026 "i just don't risks. expect to die tomorow, regardless of result." is a strange comment here.

Post 1045This comment isn't useful at all, and I keep on reading it as "which of the scumbuddies are you talking to."

Post 1066Suddenly joins the Zeppo wagon.

Post 1335Another sudden switch.

Post 1410Votes MoS for voting someonw who would later be revealed to be a scum with bad logic. Hmm.

The next 25 posts are small posts with long bouts of lurking, which brings us up to January 10.

Post 2078Another Sudden Switch, prompted by one comment I made in regards to him. Either incredibly overdramatic (which Niv has a tendency to) or a rather opportunistic vote. Or both.

Post 2093Irrelevant, and a clear attempt to get a mason lynched.

/lurk

Post 2133 This is a large chunk of really bad logic.

Post 2135 I wouldn't be surprised if the mafia were told who the traitor was.

Post 2148.Weak. Really, really weak.

Post 2196. Again, very weak and noncommittal.

Post 2258Why did he decide this now, when it was popular to do so?

Post 2284I can't help but wonder why

Niv

is complaining about this.

Post 2547 I want to know on what basis did he decide ZONEACE was scum here? I find ZONEACE to be on the large part less helpful than Jdodge.

/lurk lurk lurk

Post 2743The most notable possible scum slip-up in the game.

Blame delayed responces on 12 hour days in a kitchen

Reading over this case, I don't think i can adequatally defend myself.

ok, so, we're waiting on niv to respond. So, hey niv. Respond so we can lynch you or sim.

I actually agree with this. If we were to lynch me today and sim tomorow, even though I have to die, we still lynch scum. I have the strongest read on sim, and I am pretty much certain that he is scum. yes i know it is not useful to give up, but i can't see any way around this, and i don't want to fight a losing battle

[Niv]

If we were to lynch me today and sim tomorow, even though I have to die, we still lynch scum.

If there are two scum left, and we mislynch today, then we will lose. 5/22 for one scum group seems pretty standard to me.

If this is the case, I sudgest a

Vote No Lynch

. and then we can deal with one less tomorow. not like anyone is really in the the clear for real.

In fact, i weas running the assumption of one scum,but i dont know why

[Niv]

No lynch would get rid of one suspect, but would it really improve anything? It would reduce the number to lynch down to 3, and it would give the scum a higher percentage of the town's numbers. I don't see how it would really help us, and I'm very suspicious of this suggestion coming from Niv after he refused to defend himself. I'm thinking this is a ploy to get out of the hole he's in.

Vote: Niv

Um,is anyone here not a suspect? the scum would kill someone tonight, giving us better odds tomorow. we would lose a suspect, and have better odds. if we lynch today, we lose. this is all as though there is 2 scum left though

[Niv]

I don't see why we are not no lynching, we have significantally better odds tomorow, and even though so many people see ether as town, her dying and turning up town would be a big help as we can trust what she said (anyone dying and coming up town would help, infact someone dying and coming up scum would be better, but i don;t think the scum are gonna self kill ofr shits and giggles)

[Niv]

Alternatively, we could lynch scum today, and have whoever would die to a no-lynch still around to help catch the other one, too.

The problem with this theroy, is that i',m not scum

[Niv]

I...still don't think ZONEACE is scum.

I will most likely hammer Niv; in the meantime, hi.

you seem to be the only who is able to figure out the obvious.

I've maintained you are town since day one

also, still voting no lynch, beacuse i see no benifit ion noit

[Niv]

Hi amson team. i am Niv. i know you exsist

Just saying:
Out of twenty two players in total, I think at least one of us is probably mafia. Therefore, I suggest we use the masonry sparringly. We don't want to reveal too much about our game tomorrow.

[/b]

this is probabally something you all want to to see. since it had clearly stated in the mason pm that someone was untrustworthy, i saw no reason for sim to send this to me, therefore, i was certain that he was someone who had,t seen the town mason pm, therefore i was certain he was scum. i was also sure he was scum for the entire game, although beingunable to post this pm made it hard for people to see what i saw, sorry i played so shitty.

[Niv]

The non mason list:

Scummy:
Mastermind of Sin

Neutral:
Elmo
Korejora

Town:
ZONEACE
Setael
Sir Tornado (Claim)

Masons: scum - town
Simenon
Bookitty
Niv
Ether

Even on day seven I was afraid Niv would be hard to lynch. He was right all the time; it scared me.

i knew i was right, but i am absoultally terrible at expressing myself.

[Niv]

Would've been nice if Niv

's attack of Sim would've

made

more

sense

. Oh well.

paraphrased for truth.

[Niv]

proving you have no life.....