New York 195: Adventure Mafia - Game over!

[EspeciallyTheLies]

DRAMONIC.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

copper what do you think about your neighbors?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Pretty sure Ircher is Town at this stage. Note how easily other wagons (Cy, Brawl I’m specificially looking at) just fade away regardless of any actual thread involvement from them. But Ircher’s wagon is still going strong. I’d be even more confident if he bothered to show up and answer my question.

^ this applies to TBG in a big way right now, mAGNA. why do you not feel the same in this case?

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You don’t have enough data to determine that Titus was coaching Ircher either but that didn’t stop you from long-jumping to that conclusion earlier

This is not true. I did have enough data, in that the conversation was in the damn thread. But to ask me if I thought Titus was bussing TBG, and I said - I don't have enough data - there've been no flips or nothing, and I didn't see any connection between them in the conversations/posts, so why the hell would this apply to my conclusion about Titus/Ircher in any way!!? It didn't and it doesn't. Apples and oranges, man. The Titus/Ircher thing was in plain sight, in words, with very clear meaning. My impression was that it looked like coaching. YOu can't make the same conclusions about TBG/Titus at all, they don't have the same interactions, and I didn't, and still don't think TBG is scum really. I was kidna waffly about him but I honestly don't get the case on him (I didn't see a single one really, but I'm not done re-reading). Also my scumreads are mostly independent of each other on D1 unless there's an obvious link like the one I felt I saw between Titus/Ircher. I try not to make associations before a scum flip because that has only ever led me to disaster in the past.

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magna come back i am wanting interaction with you.

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Agreed but I absolutely do not want a single scum flip from the Neighborhood to make people go “Whelp, X confirmed Town now” where X is the number of other living players from the neighborhood. That’s the kind of lazy thinking and assumption that loses games for Town.

I agree that would be a dumb thing to do. Buuuuuuuut.... once we know whether or not it's multiball, better assumptions can be made about the neighborhood, do you agree? In general yes I would say if we get a scumflip out of there, the remaining members aren't necessarily "cleared".

Well I can try help you with your feelings. My opinion of the interaction comes from a completely different point of view. I’m Town reading Ircher and soft Town reading Titus at that stage. I see you posting that Titus is coaching Ircher which requires several leaps that were not knowable at that stage – specifically whether scum has Daytalk or not and a lack of an Ircher scum read. In fact you had him as Newbtown at 324. To my mind you were making non-supportable assumptions and trying to scum-read players for reasons that didn’t make sense to me - especially Ircher.

Yes I know but it made sense to me and I tried to explain my thought process to you. Do you understand it better now or do you still think it's nonsense?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

If you are Town you should care if you are Town read. That’s how you prevent being mislynched and help to narrow down the pool of people who are scum.

I disagree, mostly because I find that I care less about how people read me when I'm town than when I'm scum, because as town, I'm more focused on figuring out what's going on and as scum I'm more focused on manipulating the game. I think I get more upset whgen scumread as town, but in terms of actually

caring

, much less as town.

I mean, obviously I understand that being able to find town reads and work WITH them is far more viable a strategy, but being townread really isn't the main focus and shouldn't be the main focus of town. if you're doing the right things and your teammates are competent, then it should work itself out. town have to keep doing what they need to do and hope their team recognizes it. the problem happens when competence is severely missing.

in that department, i think this is a pretty good playerlist despite one or two but on the whole there seems to be a lot of good obsrvations imo.

p-edit: thanks magna. for coaching - mostly in newbies without daytalk. especially in newbies. the one that comes to mind right away is a newbie i played maybe last year sometime and i was scum with zzzx who was being really... really... dense and not following my lead and the coaching had to be more and more blatant. thor saw it, but couldn't push it through. i've caught scum that way as well. the reason my only recollection is from newbies is because those are the only games i ever played in the last 2 years that didn't have day talk for scum. it's a favorite of mine so i often seek out mods who include it generically (like antihero or AP)

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Jesus could this day end.

Where do your reads stand now that you've mostly caught up? Strongest scumreads/strongest townreads?

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I’m curious to see because you preemptively gave him an out to say no-one in the question as you phrased it.

Also – did it shake him as you expected it too? If so point to the post / posts that show that please.

If his personality was of the type that instinctively defends his teammates and he quickly replied nobody, that would have been a nice little scum slip (how is seth_town supposed to know there are none?), so I was happy to give him that out (quickly answering nobody not only would have confirmed him as scum, it would have strongly indicated there was at least one there).

It did not appear to faze in him at all.

yah ok copper can be town.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

VOTE: SirCakez
An adventure is all games and fun until the party leader stops it mid-way, hands us a rope, and literally asks us to hang each other.

I can't make my play based on what I honestly think, especially in a large game, you can say that "A" must be hanged because of "B" but the majority factor that influences the Day 1 lynching is luck, scumreads may not work all the time as everyone has different playstyles and personalities which makes it impossible to be always right with a scumread, the only thing we can do right now is to maximize that chances of flipping scum, I'm not confident yet in my reads to do that, it's all up to you my fellow town on this day and I will post my thoughts sometimes.

Is this the response to copper's query? I really don't see anything that addressed it directly at all, so I don't really think that there WAS any response to gauge the way copper wanted to. Unless I'm missing it in the context?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Jesus could this day end.

Where do your reads stand now that you've mostly caught up? Strongest scumreads/strongest townreads?

Didn't I just do this? End this thing.

No. You didn't. I'm interested in your updated reads. is there any reason you refuse to give them?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

ALSO: if you were town you probably wouldn't have bothered to check the links
because hypothetical town-you would know that no matter what the links held, they wouldn't be relevant if it was related to me thinking you are scum.

That is possibly the furthest reach I've heard in my time on this site.

actually it's an excellent point.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Jesus could this day end.

Where do your reads stand now that you've mostly caught up? Strongest scumreads/strongest townreads?

Didn't I just do this? End this thing.

No. You didn't. I'm interested in your updated reads. is there any reason you refuse to give them?

Are you serious? Is this the molehill you want to turn into a mountain? I've been fine. To the extent I have reads I've been giving them clearly. This game is busy enough, move on.

I'm not going to go through your ISO and track down your individual reads dude. I'm asking a simple question. what is your problem? just answer it and be done.

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you'll come around to me on later days. that's normal for most townies.

except for me, because i'm sucking up to you, of course.

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Hello ETL, if I make it to lylo, I won't be voting for a no lynch, unlike in blitz

Hi Kop!!

I don't even remember what happened there but I'm sure it was genius on my part

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Magna is my new favorite town read. I would trust his analysis over anyone else's in this playerlist. He's clearly experienced, keeps a cool head, thinks deliberately about what's going on, and asks good questions that he follows up on.

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Yeah, look through TBG, Persivul and Anen. (Major wagons close to deadline).

agreed but context is important so don't just ISO.

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Alright. Based on what I've seen I also think I'll look into Irch and DMS, unless something big happened that makes either of those not worth the effort?

P:edit- I always ISO and then if I see a post that pings, I go to it and look for the context. Doesn't everyone?

I dunno. I know that 50+ pages in a large with only 3 days on the deadline can be overwhelming.

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stop misrepping me!!!!1!!

omg this needs to die. what a useless slot.

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we really should NOT let that slide on VI status. lol I mean talk about PL-worthy...

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it's like the new renoe

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but worse lmao

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read his ISO. he's literally doing nothing but shitposting, trolling and whining about not being town read like an obstinate toddler.

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VI != town.

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I just don't want him skating by on bullshit because "oh he's just a VI"

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He's not breaking any rules :/

Trolling a game is against the rules. In the reports options, trolling is one of the items to report against.

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I'll be gone until Tuesday, so I have about 7 hours to cast my last vote of the day. As of now I'm fine with pers....reading back the last few pages

zakk looks better and pers looks worse.

I sort of want to know what happened to the TBG wagon, though. Seems like he may have got out of a lynch by going MIA, a bad precedent. I don't see TKS's case on ETL, though I do have a strong

townread on TKS

.

Titus has been fine, nahdia is still clear town to me

. Also I'm sure there's other players but meh.

I actually agree with all of these. Don't think that's ever happened before. Makes me feel more confident in my townread here,

though I will admit to wondering if it's because these reads are "groupthink" type reads that scum can easily fall in line with, to avoid standing out.

PARANOIA~~~~~

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Shaziro also firmly town by every single post.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

PARANOIA~~~~~

Fake town slip much?

I seriously can't wait to quote this in end-game. You are annoying me.

Die, scum, die.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Part of being a good player is the ability to be transparent. I include my thoughts so others can read my posts and know what I'm thinking, instead of guessing, or in your case, straight up making shit up to force a scumread.

p-edit: If you are actually town, I honestly don't even know what to say, other than, learn to play better. Your reads are all fucking backwards and wrong.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

PARANOIA~~~~~

Fake town slip much?

I seriously can't wait to quote this in end-game. You are annoying me.

Die, scum, die.

It's my experience. In fact I was recently in a long mylo in which the scum noted his supposed paranoia a couple times (hi cakez!).

... Ok. Am I the same person? No. I'm not.

Second, it's not even a fucking "slip". I am clearly showing my thought-process and attributing it to paranoia. Disregard it if you think I'm fucking scum, but don't talk out of your ass

trying to assign tells for other people to a totally different person

. Like, what kind of half-assed hunting is that? It's not, which is exactly the problem here. I don't see any attempts from you to actually figure ANYTHING out, much less me. Instead, I see immediate jumps to call something scummy with zero actual analysis. Quips on quotes != analysis at all.

Which is why I say, if you

are

town, you really need to rethink your process because it's not working.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

"I saw this other person do this thing once in one other game, so you must be doing the same thing."

Seriously. You have got to be kidding me here.

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I've played with Kop-scum in a large game before, we'll see if he acts the same way.

This quote in particular stuck out to me as rather townie sounding

LOL THE FUCK? Nos didn't confirm anything, and he gave no opinions. This post is null. Stop trying to make shit up, ty

What is the purpose of this post? Is it a difference of opinion about the post itself or a disagreement about his read on Nos?

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I've played with Kop-scum in a large game before, we'll see if he acts the same way.

This quote in particular stuck out to me as rather townie sounding

LOL THE FUCK? Nos didn't confirm anything, and he gave no opinions. This post is null. Stop trying to make shit up, ty

What is the purpose of this post? Is it a difference of opinion about the post itself or a disagreement about his read on Nos?

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Did you even fucking read what I said? I said Zakk was making up reads to make himself look protown!!1!

You didn't say that in that post. I think you might have a reading comprehension issue. You may want to get that checked out.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I've played with Kop-scum in a large game before, we'll see if he acts the same way.

This quote in particular stuck out to me as rather townie sounding

LOL THE FUCK? Nos didn't confirm anything, and he gave no opinions. This post is null. Stop trying to make shit up, ty

Did you even fucking read what I said? I said Zakk was making up reads to make himself look protown!!1!

Am I crazy, or do these two posts have completely different words in them? They don't even convey the same message.

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Which is why I say, if you are town, you really need to rethink your process because it's not working.

Right back at you!

Totally missed the point. I've been doing all the things you are NOT doing, exactly the things you SHOULD be doing - actual discussion, real analysis, transparency. NOT jumping on anything that could possibly give you a reason to scumread someone.

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YES THEY DO LOL CAN U READ

"Stop trying to make shit up, ty"
"Zakk was making up reads to make himself look protown!!1!"

holy fuck get off my dick

I asked you for clarification in order to understand what conclusion you were making. Instead of getting all riled up and cursing at people, you should just answer the question. It's how other players can get a better read on you.

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You didn't say anything about "to look more protown", and that was the conclusion that was missing from the post I asked about. You should really stop blaming other people for your mistakes, KTS.

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LOL

dude you are literally the pissiest motherfucker ive ever seen. i clearly said the same thing but w/e dude, you can have your way i guess. i mean,

if that's the way you were raised

, i dont wanna fuc around with it

Is this a personal attack?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

It looks like one to me.

To make this an official, public request,

please do not make personal attacks. I would like to hope that you understand the sitewide rules regarding acceptable behavior in this community and within games, and that it generally isn't tolerated for long.

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Totally missed the point. I've been doing all the things you are NOT doing, exactly the things you SHOULD be doing - actual discussion, real analysis, transparency. NOT jumping on anything that could possibly give you a reason to scumread someone.

I disagree with the accuracy of your self assessment, but even if it's true - those things have you about to lynch town, so if you're town, those apparently AREN'T the things you should be doing...or you're doing them wrong. I've said it before, and I'll say it again - scum!pers has no motivation to take on town!ETL or town!Titus. In Blitz 1 I took on Titus, but that was because a partner was in serious trouble. In this game, I started after you guys well before anyone was even remotely in danger. If me and TBG were scum, I would have just pushed some other townie. I certainly wouldn't have taken his place. This isn't rocket science.

Except we were townreading you early on; I'm sure you didn't expect to be caught this early.

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Except we were townreading you early on

What is scum!pers's motivation to turn on people who are town reading him?

You didn't actually - you avoided saying Titus was scum or I was scum outright as much as you possibly could until asked directly. It wasn't difficult to notice, because I thought your instant townread and white knighting in the beginning was weird from the get go, so I watched your read on me. You flirted around it, not really trying to come right out and say it, until you were forced to.

Also, "I wouldn't do that as scum!" is just about the most WIFOM defense you could possibly offer, and you should try something else. I'm ignoring pretty much any statement that contains any variation of "would scum!pers do this?"

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if i say hes town, dont fuck with him again

The resident scumhunting god has spoken, people.

Oh man, I actually laughed

out loud

in my office. I needed that.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Well with one day to lynch, wouldn't it be better just to lynch someone over not at all?

Or should we go to no lynch today?

In 99.99999% of circumstances, we lynch Day 1.

Are you townreading Persivul?

More or less, but I don't mind getting on a wagon for him.

what....?

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VOTE: Persivul

not a reaction test. it was only a few minutes after the L-2 vote. didn't bother to see about a claim. wtf Titus?

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she legit thought it was a hammer.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Titus

[EspeciallyTheLies]

not to mention looking at the vc now this wagon is uncontested.

UUUGH!!!!

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er. ur suggesting she didn't know she was already voting there? and she'd just mentioned Pers had claimed just neighbor.

oh. I thought she'd unvoted.

UNVOTE:

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Her vote was the on the wagon and she has been constantly saying things like "come back to me", and there was already a claim. That's a very opportunistic vote there ETL.

how is it opportunisti ? no one is voting her?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

like, what opportunity am I taking advantage of here? besides unvoting persivul?

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Her vote was the on the wagon and she has been constantly saying things like "come back to me", and there was already a claim. That's a very opportunistic vote there ETL.

I know he's a neighbor but that was outed by liger and isn't a personal full claim, which is customarily sought at L-1, which is why we note that it's L-1.

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in any case the fact that it's uncontested still stands so now I dunno wtf to do. we do t have time for anything

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It seemed very much like you were gearing up to try and start a fast wagon because the deadline is close. I don't like it. My vote is staying put though, because we don't need to no-lynch.

P-edit: I believe he claimed bland neighbor, did he not?

in that moment I believed I'd made a mistake about Titus. so yes I switched my vote. I realized after that she had never unvoted so it truly was a fake hammer.

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Oh hey. We got a kill lol. Let's see how he flips.

1) we didn't.
2) a "kill"?
3) "lol"?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

please don't hammer yet. I need to think. I will be back here in 12 hours.

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I am torn between avoiding no lynch and second guessing everything.

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Her vote was the on the wagon and she has been constantly saying things like "come back to me", and there was already a claim. That's a very opportunistic vote there ETL.

I know he's a neighbor but that was outed by liger and isn't a personal full claim, which is customarily sought at L-1, which is why we note that it's L-1.

I already obtained it. Just how closely are you reading?

I'm reading mostly closely. there are some arguments that have been difficult to follow but overall interest level is still high.

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I need to sleep though. Titus can you make sure I have at least 12 hours from now before a hammer drops? I'll be up again long before that but I want to look at the vc's and stuff one last time and share my thoughts before thread closes if I can.

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ok. we don't have time for fucking anything here. we can't no lynch.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

kts flash wagon anyone?

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Even I have minor reservations on the Persivul wagon, but there's no way I am going for KTS. This is the wierdest collective response to a fake hammer in my recollection.

VC please

ETL, the reads you wanted to give please?

ok I've got shaziro, you, nahdia, liger, magna as town Zakk and pers as maybe town
copper maybe scum. shotty is ??? maybe scum? cy maybe scum less nulls than before but still more than I'd like atm. hang on. need to look at my list. (I'm mobile)

[EspeciallyTheLies]

egg maybe scum. HA scum. expedience town. ircher kop are both still unknown. ircher because I don't know what I'm seeing in his ISO. prob lean more town on him than kop. I think Lowell might be town and tbg is null for the same reason ircher is. I can't make up my mind tbere. stuck.

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I would prefer to be investigated if we have that. I perform better when I'm not battling idiotic arguments that distract

[EspeciallyTheLies]

who am I missing now?

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What are your thoughts on the 3-4 people thinking that a) my hammer was real b) Persivul had not full claimed and c) claimed to fully read the game?

I'm one of those people. I don't think there's any judgement to be made there. I'm town and I thought the same things so clearly, to me at least, it has nothing to do with alignment.

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Yeah, well I don't think all of those are legit.

who are the others?

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cy can go too

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no other wagon is even close. what "opposition"?? any verbal opposition at this point is coming from townies imo.

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we still have 20 hours. I'll hammer if necessary. but I'm gonna drag it out because I can.

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thinking ircher's anxious twitching here is pretty scummy tbh.

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no. I'd prefer cy or ircher. kts is a better vig target. that's what vig is for. too often people think they know better when they get the role instead of taking out the garbage.

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kts' wagon would be useless for analysis.

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spam != active or content. a player with a lot of interactions and reads and arguments is a lot better than someone who posts a bunch of trolling moronic bullshit.

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It is strange to me that Pers's wagon took off like a rocket over mine, and he has been at L-1 or L-2 so much, while KTS wagon has all the makings of a solid flashwagon but won't go. If we think KTS should die by vig anyway, we gain a lot more info by moving wagons and then having Pers die in the night instead.

pedit: I don't think we gain any associatives from KTS-->People, but I do think we gain them from People-->KTS. His spammy bullshit was just that, but by being in the thread frequently,

other players

had to comment on him.

we don't. it's easy to say "that person is garbage". it's not alignment indicative at all and any scum team with him on it wouldn't touch defending him with a 1000 foot pole. he's a liability to either team. nothing about lynching him helps us. You're not understanding why a vigging is better.

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scum have to make an effort to look like town while accomplishing their objectives undetected. it takes no effort to make null moves like voting kts.

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or any other VI the invariably seems to make their way into every single game. it's the "safe" vote for scum. but a VI attracts votes from townies too for being such an annoyance, Nd there's no way to tell the difference because it doesn't take any effort to push that.

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which is why you lynch for high information instead of some POilcy lynch when faced with no other viable options. ESPECIlly on day one.

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So, in other words, we should lynch Pers unless someone has a much better, non-VI/PL target for D1.

yes unfortunately. I've lost faith in this lynch but as of right this moment it's all we have.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

is it?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

GO TOWN ♥

[EspeciallyTheLies]

thanks for the game cakez

N1 kill is never a bad thing

[EspeciallyTheLies]

ETL, Sorry for not seeing you as town sooner.

it's ok it's mafia