Mafia 70: Traditional - Game over!
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
- Cassandra Complex
- Cassandra Complex
- Posts: 15163
- Joined: October 30, 2004
- Location: Sleeping with the Godfather's Daughter
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
- Cassandra Complex
- Cassandra Complex
- Posts: 15163
- Joined: October 30, 2004
- Location: Sleeping with the Godfather's Daughter
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
- Cassandra Complex
- Cassandra Complex
- Posts: 15163
- Joined: October 30, 2004
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
- Cassandra Complex
- Cassandra Complex
- Posts: 15163
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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- Posts: 15163
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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- Posts: 15163
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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- Posts: 15163
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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*points to sig* The situation that prompted that has only gotten worse, not better.Toaster Strudel wrote:Mastermind of Sin wrote:Vote: Flare
I agree with the above comments.but I DO agree with the people who are also voting him, andSorry this isn't really the greatest reasoning,I'm in a really hectic time of my lifevote: Mastermind of Sin
Already making excuses for what he probablyknowswill turn out to be a townie lynch.Permanent V/LA.-
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Erg0 is full of win. Sir Tornado is full of fail.Unvote, Vote: Sir Tornado
Zoneace is not scum. You think he's scum because you have never played with him before. Or, you know he's not scum and are pushing a lynch on him because you think he's an easy target and don't realize that those of us who've been around this whole time know the Zonace isn't acting scummy.Permanent V/LA.-
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Neither. I'm having my life torn apart right now. Forgive me if I don't go all rambo on everyone.Toaster Strudel wrote:
Actually it's a bit of meta-gaming. MoS is very good at surviving games - which means that he is skilled in not pissing off the scum and getting nightkilled, and not shaking the town too much to get himself lynched. Yet, he manages to participate somewhat aggressively.Beastly wrote:Oh sorry this is my first game so I'm a little unsure of how people post and such. I didn't like her jab at MoS if you must know, plus she's pretty inactive and unhelpful.
His posts so far have struck me as wishy-washy, and out of character. He's not himself it seems - but only in this game. It's also not his habit to fail to respond to being voted against, even when he's far from being in danger of a lynch. I don't expect most other players to see what I see, but I've played a great many games with MoS, and I think many players here have played none to a few. Gut-metagaming if you will.
It's probably not a bad idea to shake him up a bit and see if he's persistently out of character, or if he's having an off gamestart.
Doesn't change the fact that my post was an attack on Sir Tornado, not just a copy of what Erg0 said. Although, I *DID* say that I agreed with Erg0, so I fail to see how agreeing with someone is a bad thing.
This is a horrible attack. If you just read my posts in isolation, you would notice that I said ZONEACE should not be lynchedThe Venerable Zorg wrote:
I'd like a second opinion on this. I think Masterminds post was terrible. I'll try and summarise why, below.Mastermind of Sin wrote:How did I just copy what Erg0 said? I said I agreed with him and then attacked Sir Tornado. Just because half a sentence said the same thing Erg0 said does not mean I copied him.
This post came just after a post by Erg0, in which Erg0 had suggested that Zoneace always plays this way. Mastermind appears to have felt an urge to repeat exactly what Erg0 had just said. Yet i dont recall Mastermind saying this before. This could be an example of buddying up, by following the lead of Erg0. I havent played with Mastermind before (though he is in a game i am starting now), so can someone please tell me whether he is always this erratic?MastermindofSin wrote:Erg0 is full of win. Sir Tornado is full of fail. Unvote, Vote: Sir Tornado
Zoneace is not scum. You think he's scum because you have never played with him before. Or, you know he's not scum and are pushing a lynch on him because you think he's an easy target and don't realize that those of us who've been around this whole time know the Zonace isn't acting scummy.
I mean, his staunch defense of Zoneace just seems really jumpy. It would be very nice if Mastermind could please reveal his connections with Zoneace. If you are so confident that he always plays like this, it would be useful to see games which you and he share. I'm going to reread your posts so far and see if you have been consistent with this approach towards Zoneace.
in the meantime,Unvote, Vote: MastermindTHREE TIMESbefore agreeing with Erg0's points. I didn't do something inconsistent.Permanent V/LA.-
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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You're putting words in my mouth. I didn't say that. I said he wasn't acting like he does as scum. That statement is not logically equivalent to "always plays like this", therefore it is not the no tell you are proposing.Niv wrote:
however if zoneace always plays like this, wouldn't it be more like a no tell?Mastermind of Sin wrote:t;]Erg0 is full of win. Sir Tornado is full of fail.Unvote, Vote: Sir Tornado
Zoneace is not scum. You think he's scum because you have never played with him before. Or, you know he's not scum and are pushing a lynch on him because you think he's an easy target and don't realize that those of us who've been around this whole time know the Zonace isn't acting scummy.Permanent V/LA.-
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Excuse me for being too tired to bother resorting to Ad Hom.Flare wrote:
You forget his lack of profanity.Toaster Strudel wrote: His posts so far have struck me as wishy-washy, and out of character. He's not himself it seems - but only in this game. It's also not his habit to fail to respond to being voted against, even when he's far from being in danger of a lynch. I don't expect most other players to see what I see, but I've played a great many games with MoS, and I think many players here have played none to a few. Gut-metagaming if you will.Permanent V/LA.-
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Indeed. I've only made 22 posts so far, not that much of a reread. Hopefully my activity will kick up after this week.Erg0 wrote:Zorg wrote:I'm going to reread your posts so far and see if you have been consistent with this approach towards Zoneace.
in the meantime, Unvote, Vote: Mastermind
I don't love the fact that both Flare and Zorg jumped on the MoS wagon while openly admitting that they needed to re-read him to be sure. Leaving room to backtrack, methinks - it's not like MoS has written a novel in this game, a re-read wouldn't be too much to ask before voting.Flare wrote:I agree with this. MoS has done this three seperate times I believe. He auto agreed with Niv. Then around two pages later he hopped on me with three other people just agreeing with them, and then very shortly afterwards, he moved to SirT. (this is based off of memory and not looking back btw)
vote:MoS
FoS: Zorgsince I'm already voting Flare.
Incidentally, Flare is pretty obviously an alt - I don't see how he would know MoS's tendencies otherwise.Permanent V/LA.-
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Where did I say I mentioned a reason not to lynch ZONEACE? You can't say it's not true, because what I said was that I stated ZONEACE shouldn't be lynched, and you are agreeing with me while saying that I lied at the same time. That's inconsistent.The Venerable Zorg wrote:Actually, i read your posts back, and this is not true. You DID claim that there were better lynches than Zoneace-repeating over and over that he was town, but the fact is, you never mentioned any real reasons behind this. When Erg0 made his post, you appear to have latched onto his logic, which involved meta-gaming. I'm currently highly doubtful that you have even read one of his games, but as i'm not infallible, please do refer me to the games you and he have shared.
In addition, it was early in D1. I didn't think that ZONEACE's wagon would get to the point where I felt I needed to supply a reason. I was giving people a chance to look into him on their own, which they didn't. You haven't either, apparently, or you'd know that ZONEACE just came back recently, having been gone for something like 2 1/2 years.
Yes, I latched onto Erg0's logic and agreed with it. I FUCKING SAID THIS ALREADY. Why do you feel the need to repeat something that I havealready admittedto doing? It doesn't change the fact that I made a specific attack on someone that jumped on the wagon, something that Erg0 did not do. I agreed with his reasoning, but I also expanded from there and found someone scummy for their actions regarding ZONEACE. Erg0 had nothing to do with that.
"which involved meta-gaming"
What is the point of this phrase? You're rehashing something that's already been talked about. It's not like it's a bad thing to meta-game. Meta-gaming ZONEACE is the reason that some people are defending him, whereas people were attacking him without having anything to base their arguments off of.
Of course I've read one of ZONEACE's games. I've played with him many times before, but that was around 2 1/2 years ago, give or take. Do you honestly expect me to remember exactly which games I played with him in? I don't need to reread to remember how he plays. You're the one that needs to look it up, so do the research yourself instead of being lazy and demanding that I do it.Permanent V/LA.-
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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k. So let's say, for example, that you have something taht you always do when you are protown. A tell, shall we say. This tell looks scummy, but it does mean you are protown. You try to point this out to people, but they keep voting you. Someone else comes along and points out that this is a town tell for you, and they shouldn't be lynching you. They in turn get voted for pointing out the obvious. Are you not going to support them in turn for being the one person who actually wasThe Venerable Zorg wrote:
ftr, i really don't like the interaction going on between Zoneace and Mastermind.ZONEACE wrote:Toaster Strudel wrote:You're cranky.
but he's also correct, and that's what matters.rightabout you? And I'm talking about something that is factual, something that is on record and can be looked up. I'm not talking about someone randomly defending you because they *think* you're town. If someone points out a fact about you that everyone else is missing or ignoring, what are you going to do when they get attacked for "defending" you?Permanent V/LA.-
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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See, that's the thing. How could you be so goddamn paranoid that you would think someone is suspicious for pointing out something that you know to be factual and referenceable? Pointing out the obvious when people aren't seeing it should not be a scumtell. This is exactly why I made the distinction about what I'm talking about, because "buddying up" doesn't really apply here. Sure, it can happen, but this sort of thing is not evidence of buddying up, because the "defense" that was made was pointing out the freaking obvious! It's not like ZONEACE said "MoS is so obviously protown that I would never consider voting him for the rest of this game. Hell, I might never vote for him for the rest of my time on mafiascum!". He just appreciated the fact thatsomeoneknew what they were talking about when the majority of people weren't doing their research correctly.Permanent V/LA.-
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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I am pming the mod with a request that Lemming be forceably replaced out of this game. I suggest that you all follow suit. There is no point in playing with someone who insists on playing like a retard and flaming people repeatedly out of immaturity. At least ZONEACE is actually playing the game, even if it's in his style to use AdHom. Lemming is just being immature and annoying as hell. I don't want him in this game anymore.Permanent V/LA.-
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Profanity != Flaming. Lemming is flaming for no reason at all. ZONEACE is using ad hom attacks on people because he's clearly pissed off at how they're acting. He may not be acting the way other people would, but at least it has a reason. Lemming is flaming purely because he gets off at insulting people. That is not playing mafia. No matter how bad you think ZONEACE's play has been, he IS playing the game. You cannot argue against that.Permanent V/LA.-
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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White, here's some games that had me as scum and town:
Scum:
Mafia 61
Jack of All Trades
Town:
Kingmaker II
MAfia 50Permanent V/LA.-
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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I already explained this. ZONEACE wasplaying the game. Whether or not you agree with how he plays, his comments were still relevant to the game. I think he got the point across quite well, even if it got on people's nerves. You, on the other hand, were flaming him out of your own immaturity, just because you thought it was funny. That is not acceptable behavior by any standard.Permanent V/LA.-
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Who originally brought of Jester, and who was it referring to? First person to bring up Jester is probably scum, and if they're scum, they were probably defending a buddy with the Jester idea.Sir Tornado wrote:
Wrong. SK is way more common than Jester. So is Survivor I think. Jester is as common as Lyncher and possibly more than Jailkeeper.The Venerable Zorg wrote: Well yes, it can be used as a defence of someone, but it can also be the truth. I think Jester is a more common role than Lyncher, JailKeeper, or Survivor. It's probably equally as common as an SK.Permanent V/LA.-
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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*shrug* The whole Jester thing becomes much more unlikely by the time you get to the person who was called a Jester. Scum being the first to bring up Jester is much more accurate.ZONEACE wrote:Mastermind of Sin wrote: Who originally brought of Jester, and who was it referring to? First person to bring up Jester is probably scum, and if they're scum, they were probably defending a buddy with the Jester idea.
Except the first person to bring up jester brought it up in reference to me, and I'm not scum so they weren't doing it to defend a buddy.Permanent V/LA.-
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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WTF are you talking about? My vote hadThe Venerable Zorg wrote:thats ok. I just wanted to be clear, because, as it stands, some individuals (and by some individuals, i mean MastermindofSin) are using your 'vibes' to validate their bandwagon votes, which is obviously scummy in itself.
What are your thoughts on his post following your original analysis of me?to do with something Beastly said...I don't even remember him saying anything about you...NOTHING AT ALL
My vote originally came as a response to this post below, WHICH I EVEN SAID I WAS RESPONDING TO WHEN I VOTED. Zorg is blatantly making up facts here.
Since then, I have seen no reason to let up the pressure, because his past behavior on the whole has been quite suspect. Zorg is just flailing and trying to discredit anyone who attacks him. It's funny that he was one of the people on ZONEACE, who was being attacked for pretty much the same thing. What a hypocrite.Yamahako wrote:
Let's nip this in the bud right now, for the fourth time...The Venerable Zorg wrote: I'd say that self-voting is almost always a negative strategy (unless in the random-voting stage). If you are town, you do not want to get lynched, because a lynch on you is a lynch that could be on scum.
-snip-
Yamahako exhibited the giving up scumtell which could be indicative of his alignment. I'd rather see a Yama-lynch than a White-Lynch, but i'm sure there're better lynches than either out there. A lurker for example.
I did NOT self vote
The mod put up a vote count that was missing a vote someone had placed on me, and showed me in the list of people voting for me. This was mod error,a self vote.NOT
Vote me if you want because I'm not playing well or adding much to the discussion, but freaking read the game if you are making an honest attempt at analysis.
I have a sparse post history, it wouldn't be that hard to view all my posts to see whether or not I had voted for myself...
Unvote, Vote SimenonPermanent V/LA.-
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Pfft. Doesn't change the fact that your response was a blatant fallacy and that you are avoiding actually giving a case against White.JDodge wrote:
Actually it's moreMastermind of Sin wrote:
That's justJDodge wrote:
Why isn't White scum?Mastermind of Sin wrote:Why is white scum again?argumentum ad ignorantiam. Nice try, though.argumentum ad ignoring your question, but that's besides the point.
Now allow me to apply a bit ofipsedixitismand say "trust me on this one". I will probably be repeating thisad nauseam, so I would recommend that you get used to it.
I can quote fancy words in italics tooPermanent V/LA.-
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Zeppo, what reason is there not to go aggressively after Zorg? I believe he is scum, and the more aggressively we pushed his lynch, the more he stopped posting altogether until we called him out for lurking.
Person C votes are not beat all end all, Zeppo. You're acting like that's the only thing I've done all game. ThatWASthe only thing booboodafool had done since replacing. Instead of adding any content of his own, he immediately came out with a person C vote. That is scummy. Having a person C vote come up in a game is not inherently scummy. You have to look at the whole evidence, such as what else the player is doing, whether or not the reasoning they agree with is logical, etc. You have no basis for saying my agreement with The Fonz was scummy.Permanent V/LA.-
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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I understand where TS is coming from, but it doesn't makes sense to unvote.
I think TS is scum who felt an easy wagon on White and pushed it just a little too hard. However, I still think Zorg is more likely scum than TS. They could easily be scumbuddies, though. I don't remember either of them ever commenting on the other. Scum often forget to comment on each other because they don't want to be associated together.
On a side note, why are Zeppo and Flare still voting me? I understand that Zorg got caught spouting nonsense and realized he had to stick his vote on or he'd look like he would change his opinion under pressure. I don't understand the other two votes.Permanent V/LA.-
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Or because you're scum and don't want to commit to a position against him. If you push himToaster Strudel wrote:@MoS - I really, really don't see what's so special about Zorg. Whatever scent of scum he gives off, I must be immune to it. I read all the posts, and I just don't get it. But then again, I thought White was scum for sure, but obviously I was quite mistaken.toohard, he might get lynched. If you defend him, we'll call you out on the obvious bullshit and you'll be screwed. So you try to sit the fence and claim ignorance for as long as you can. Well it's not going to work with me.
Unvote, Vote: Toaster Strudel
Zorg can come tomorrow.Permanent V/LA.-
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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Most of this post strikes me wrong, and I'm thinking that you're claiming cop just to survive a couple extra days. SoToaster Strudel wrote:Interesting how some people started to vote for me because I wanted White to claim, and now I am forced to claim, which is not good. Interesting how the White wagon stalled, and my wagon took off like a rocket.
I don't know what I did wrong, but I apologize, whatever I did, I let the town down pretty bad, I have to be out Day 1.
Sadly, I'm a cop.IGMEOY: TS
However, even a counterclaim won't prove TS scum, since we could have multiple cops. I'm willing to give TS a chance for now, but we need to watch her like a hawk. She'll slip eventually if she's scum.
Also notice that she *still* hasn't answered many of the accusations against her.
Unvote, Vote: ZorgPermanent V/LA.-
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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WTF!? How could I possibly be inferring that I was cop? ISimenon wrote:Better:
He's making it seem like he's counter claiming cop, but doesn't want to attract the nightkill. The "we could have multiple cops so no counterclaims" is a pretty obvious subclaim. But since we have two cops, the idea of MoS counter claiming is shot down.
This makes him by far the best lynch available.neverlay cop breadcrumbs down. Hell, 90% of the time I don't even know when I'm the cop! I made those comments because I wanted to avoid the situation we got into anyways. Some idiot cop thinks that he is so important he has to be the only cop in the entire game, so he counterclaims the other cop and gives the doctor two targets that they have to protect tonight, giving the mafia a statistically better chance of finding scum. What was so hard about that? I can't help people being stupid, but Icantry to take preventative measures against it. I don't know how you came up with the conclusion you're accusing me of, but it's a bunch of BS.Permanent V/LA.-
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Mastermind of Sin Cassandra Complex
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- Location: Sleeping with the Godfather's Daughter