Open 50: The New C9 - Abandoned!

[Oman]

Losers. /Me beats you all. I win now right?

Cool our vig killed N0...wow, justwow. [/sarcasm]

We're down to 3 mafia, 1 SK and 13 town. If we all town lynch and our vig kills town and SK kills town (worst case scenario) we LyLo D2/D3 (depending on N2 vig kill and SK kill)

However, that will be a damn unlikely scenario. The best thing we can do today is give our vig the greatest leads we can.

Upon the notion of NKs I believe them to be in the following responsibilites:
Samuruc = mafia kill
Cheif = SK
Xdaamno = Vig.
reasons: that is the order the roles apear above, and I think that is accurate with standard practise. It has no relevance however.

Upon the above evidence the best case of action I can see is:

Vote Aimee

For being Alphabetically first and first on the player list.

[Oman]

unvote vote jordan

I don't like that tone either. Also, Jordan is a serial killer, maybe not in this game though

Yes, this is mostly a shameless bandwagon to get us going.

[Oman]

Hey, AlyG...I'm wagoning. For a wagon's sake.

I'll jump off if it comes to -1, -2 definatly.

[Oman]

You also attempt to make people ignore the fact that you are bandwagoning.

I just read this on page 2/3 and its complete bullshit. I state that I wagon, in capitals, how does that make people ignore it?

Unvote Vote Tyler

Tyler has been "giving advice" and discussing basic theory without actually scumhunting, but under the facade of scumhunting

if we continue to go off on such a tangent, we might become to focused and miss scum. Not saying that white isn't scum either, I wouldn't know.

Here's some advice, from one friend to another: die scum die.

And CKD, you asked me how it turns out. Fantastic! I don't wagon to lynch (not when I'm town anyway) unless the person slips up many times during it. I usually hop off when I find something better...like Tyler

[Oman]

die scum die.

[Oman]

The game is moving fast cause its a night start.

ChronX blows, but this is not the time nor the place (PEGBAM mini is hilarious though )

[Oman]

Okay so whats the wagon on me for? Because I wagon?

Do I really have to defend agaisnt this, I've already proven that I do not just blindly wagon, I am voting for Tyler off a very real feeling that he is scum because he has been sharpening his knives (<3 CKD). Thus, I am not blindly wagoning anymore.

[Oman]

-1 is "pressure" to you?

You're kidding me, right?

I'm not even ON that wagon

[Oman]

EBWOP: The third sentence is on a seperate lean to the others.

[Oman]

Okay, Three things

1) Its Oman with an "A"

2)

Mod

Please remove references to PEGBAM in 141 and 143

3)

Mod

Please remove references to ongoing game in 145

Okay, now that the logistics are cleared can I point out a few things.

I simulposted with this:

quick wagons dont help this early.

Yes, they do. Quick wagons really help. They show a lot about people

Also, Hypocrit Jordanscum just wagoned on me for something "incredibly scummy" that he "missed". I would now like to

Unvote Vote Jordan

There is hardly a wagon there now, so don't tell me I'm doing it for no reason. Jordan wagoned me with some really badly faked reasons.

[Oman]

Comments? Sure.

This bandwagon attack on me because of my playstyle is bullshit, complete and utter. That doesn't mean I think everyone on it is scum, but I certainly advise everyone who is on me to really look at why they are on me, and if bandwagoning is your only reason, well thats really poor play.

Its like voting ryan for posting his role pm, or voting aimee for making a long post, or voting Ultima Avalon for self-voting, or voting BM for not making sense.

I can post games where I've wagoned as scum and as town, but its really irrelevant. What matters is that I got off the wagon because it served its purpose, allowed me to find two scumtells. Tyler being a goddamn nutter and Jordan's lame attempt at wagoning me.

Yah, they're my comments.

[Oman]

No, it breaks the rules it should be removed.

Why do you want them left?

[Oman]

Okay fine, but I refuse to have them used in argument against anyone, ongoing games are ongoing, and they should stay out of other ongoing games.

[Oman]

Okay, I got defensive because a player should have the integrity not to break the rules, anyone who breaks the rules (intentionally!) pisses me off mightly.

[Oman]

since we cant directly reference ongoing games it would be hard for me to show some examples

If you need an example of Oman's bandwagonning check out Mafia on a Plane in the Little Italy forum

Yeah, I don't KNOW it was malicious, but many people stated that it wasn't right, and AlyG has been around long enough to know that rule. I can only assume that AlyG knew two facts:
1) That game was ongoing
2) He is not allowed to reference ongoing games
Thus malicious intent is implied.

Perhaps I am overreacting, but rules/integrity is something I take heavily: There are cases in which my integrity as a player is questioned (ironically in an ongoing game so I can't reference it) where I flare up. My post in Urban Dead got removed when someone posted their role PM and I yelled at them. My point is that rules are not there to be broken, and anyone who does SHOULD be modkilled, but often is not.

[Oman]

I think he is scummy. I'm not going to be saying which scumgroup he's in because my reasons for voting him aren't specific to either group. I will say for the matter of clarity "He could very well be"

[Oman]

I'd say that ooba's post is incomplete. Theres a lot of no comments where there could be some good analysis. Voting Skitzer is the logical conclusion from that post, but that post is not a true reflection of the thread.

I'd be inclined to

FoS Ooba

for that.

As Ooba pointed out though, in the words I've been searching for: A vote shouldn't go on because of a disagreement in mafia theory or playstyle. If you like wagon-to-lynch thats fine, but don't vote me cause I wont have someone at -1 for "pressure" on page 6.

[Oman]

everyone wants to survive.

I have no particular need to survive. Serioiusly, if I die, I don't care, as long as I've helped the town to catch scum.

[Oman]

Okay, the bandwagoning is a form of scumhunting. You think sitting around random voting gets to scumhunting? It doesn't. Granted, I've probably been playing this game as if it were a day start game (i.e. wagon) when we could have been hunting Jordan's tone or whatever.

Bandwagons bring out scum, because it forces people to discuss an issue and you can see prior knowledge.

The point of a town player is to catch the scum, if you're NKed for being so townie that you're a threat you succeeded.

[Oman]

That vote is really bad. There are many people who are more deserving of a vote.

[Oman]

like who?

Jordan, Tyler, LaptopGun, even me if you're of the idea that my wagoning is scummy.

[Oman]

Tyler: A few things:

Making a mountain out of a molehill in post 176 even after I'd explained my problem with the posts.

Okay, I say we wait till we see more evidence for or against oman. So far, we have info about what he usually does, which cause a circle of questions.

Aimee find this post scummy, and while I didn't pick up when I first read it, I can see where she is coming from.

Your horrible misrepresentation of me that I explain in post 100

pre-that you make a lot of contentless posts that are just banter, which is fine, but there is very little definativeness. You seem to ALWAYS be unsure, much like scum faking cautiousness.

[Oman]

EBWOP: Regardless of the above (post 203) I believe I am voting Jordan and prefer it there to Tyler.

[Oman]

You also attempt to make people ignore the fact that you are bandwagoning

This is the misrepresentation I was talking about

[Oman]

Tyler, now that you actually have some good content in your posts I'm not going to go back and drag out all the contentless posts that annoy me.

[Oman]

1) I never said I don't suspect you

2) I would hardly make something up that any player can go back and read for themselves.

[Oman]

I'm not convinced on Aimee's move there as a scumtell, but I'm not calling you out on that vote at all.

[Oman]

EBWOP: Okay, I read Aimee's post and I'm still thinking its a stretch.

[Oman]

This is fairly content free in itself but:

I believe the phrase is content-free, dear Sammich.

Owned.

From what I see OpposedForce's thing looks pretty good. I don't agree with the Jordan thing, but I certainly don't think Force is going out of his way to fake it.

[Oman]

Oman what about the Jordan thing, do you not agree with?

I get a protown feeling of him.

That mostly.

[Oman]

I find it funny that if the scum acted protown then they would vote for eachother and NK themselves, cause thats best for the town.

[Oman]

Unvote Vote Sammich

Beyond the useless info up the top, that last little bit is horrible.

Firstly this:

LTG-I think he's town. I don't exactly think he's town.

Wealth of information.

I believe he's not scum, but a possible SK, but that idea ain't really flying with me.

So you believe he's a possible SK, but you don't believe it?

Oman- I have not enjoyed his play and I endorse an Oman lynch. I think he's scum, or SK. Not a town, but I don't see Omanvig at all.

From what I see in your above "anlaysis" the only reason you endorse me is for the whole wagon debate, I'm not saying there isn't more, but include it please.

Shteven- His play makes me think of him as a doc.

WHAT THE HELL IS THIS!?! Dude, keep it to yourself. If you're right, and he is a doc, why the hell would you try to out him?

That post is full of phail.

[Oman]

If he was mafia, why would be be signalling, when he could simply keep his mouth just, talk about it at night, and then NK you....as it stands, if you are NKed, many fingers will surely point his way.

This is awesomely true, and that last sentence of Shteven's really gave me scum vibes.

Unvote Vote Shteven
IGMEOY+FoS: Sammich

[Oman]

Good catch on 230 and 286 Ooba.

[Oman]

It makes more sense if you pronounce it out loud.

Keffed.

[Oman]

I also find it especially odd that Sammich's post seems to have stopped all other debate. Doesn't anyone else have something to say?

Sammich's post was last tuesday 3:46 forum time. Since then (four days) the following players have not posted ONCE:

LoudmouthLee
White
ManaSpryte
AlyG
timmers2001
skitzer


They're all officially lurkers in my book. Some worse than others, of course, but they're all pretty flaky.

=deflection

=Truthery

[Oman]

Hey, I'm reading. I even laughed at some stuff in here.


Mostly Sammich.

[Oman]

Back.

Bump.

[Oman]

CKD is jumpy but its fair as Shteven is making a big deal out of the bump.

[Oman]

Because getting a Doc lynched means the Mafia don't have to waste a Nightkill themselves...

Yeah, towns often lynch someone that is thought to be a doc.

[Oman]

Rawr.

[Oman]

I'm going to say chronic lurking has broken this game apart a fair bit.

Now...I'm going to put forward an unpopular idea bbbbuuutttt...What if we just lynch a lurker (and I'm not usually in favour of this but this C9 allows a fair few mislynches I think). I mean, we get a bit more info (based on NKs and lynchee).

Or we could jsut lynch Schteven.

[Oman]

WHoa, sammich. I'm talking about lurkers, not just roling and lynching anyone.

Also, scum are more likely to be lurkers than town (statistically).

[Oman]

Sorry Aimee, you're right. Scum are more likely to lurk when a deadline is around though.

I'd agree with Sammich, but can you tell me why you suspect SSF?

[Oman]

Yes, but, truthfully, would you rather we lynched a random lurker, that is statistically more likely to be scum that town, or someone that has consistently made scummy posts, and are therefore, logically, more likely to be scum than town.

This is a great point. The only porblem is we can't come to a consensus.

I would like sammich or Tyler down, and I've stated why previosly.

[Oman]

I think it is because he is scum in those games to, so if he turns up scum, he doesn't want others to see that and then vote him here.

You're not reading. If you'd read what I'd posted....

[Oman]

The wagon on me is bullshit, on there for bullshit reasons.

It doesn't bother me because sane rational townies who are reading the thread will see the idiocy of it.

LTG: Re: the thrid point: thats idiotic, you should prod anyway.

Unvote Vote LaptopGun

For advocating lynching for info (which would be stupidly irrelevent) without obviously pushing it.

Look at this attempt at hiding it: "Oman could be scum or the mafia are pushing for a mislynch, but to find out we may have to lynch him." Its weak, but advocates my lynch for what reason? To find my alignment?

LTG you are seriously terrible. I realise you're discussing Catch-22s but three out of three are crap. Especially two and three.

[Oman]

1. No

but three out of three are crap.

2.

However it seems a lot of people keeping digging their claws into to you for pretty crappy reasons.

Okay, you've talked a lot about

other

people. Now lets talk about what YOU think. You say "damned if you do damned if you don't" but do you understand that only one of them is a damning effect at the moment, either I'm town or I'm scum, in either case one of the "damnables" collapses.

3. This is more a theory discussion then a "you're town/scum" discussion, but in my experience prods and replacements have never driven a game down. Case in point: SG-1. Brought back from exttinction with a few (lots) replacements and vollkan does it for a solo scum win. Logically, all leaving them does its push active players away. I don't know how many scum are in our group. We could all be townies yelling at eachother.

Mod, please prod all who require...including yourself

[Oman]

No, I didn't even know that was legal. I'm taking this to Open Queue.

[Oman]

He posted a "I'm not up to this" a long time ago.

Hopefully Thesp will help us out.

[Oman]

MOD: Fix it. And votecount please.

Oh and thanks for taking over!

[Oman]

unvote

that too.

[Oman]

Sammich jumped on the "Not voting" wagon.

[Oman]

Vote Tyler J

for going with whoever Jordan's PBPA told him too.

[Oman]

/is back.

[Oman]

Hmm…”if bandwagoning is your only reason, well that’s really poor play.”?

Sorry, you've misunderstood. I did not mean "If bandwagoning on me is your only reason" but "if my bandwagoning is your only reason" That is: If they are voting me for what is a null-tell in my (then current) meta.

Just lynch a lurker?

Town or scum I support Lynch All Lurkers meta in a "non-threatening" situation (e.g. NOT lylo, no cult etc.)

So Oman, are you saying you’d be happy with TylerJ, Sammich or Shteven?

Pretty much at that point. I'd been on all of them at some point. I was less sold on Jordan by then.

He’s had some good moments in this game, which is more than can be said for some folks, and when he seems to be trying he’s honed in on what I found to be some compelling things. On the other hand he has an OMGUS problem and has made a couple of just attention grabbing horrible posts that don’t seem consistent with town behavior.

Yeah, Chalk a lot of it up to disinterest, I hadn't even posted in this game until I saw modkills pending and soemthing that required me to respond to (also quite interesting).

Plus, I don’t particularly like the seeming relationship with Ooba.

Haven't noticed it. I might reread Ooba's posts re: me.

nything you could tell me that would help me understand what differentiates the bandwagons you like jumping on and the one that built on you early would be appreciated.

I felt that I was bandwagoning for pressure (as I said) but others were getting dangerous on me (very vocal etc.) for a reason that anyone with a spare 10 mintues could see I do in most every game (though doing less these days.)

Also anything that would make sense of your suggestiong that a random lurker be lynched but that you would also be happy with lynching any of three named players would be nice.

I dislike lurkers, they were damaging the game. I found those three players scummy (though I doubt they would be three scum, simply second guessing myself and my scumdar).

Thank you.

Your welcome.


Giving Justin

TOWNIE BROWNIES

. If i need to explain that he didn't inflate the case against me, or that he has pretty good and balanced analasis of lots of players (3 i think at this point) then you're sillyfish.

[Oman]

Justin: LML's early jump on Jordan is par for the course from what I've played with him as town, but his fence sit with me and AlyG is kind of different for his town play.

Also, calling Jordan and whoever SK and Vig without voicing they may be town set off warning bells based on his earlier playstyle (it was one game, but hey, he was town.).

[Oman]

Shit...that is a confirmed cop gone.

Thats a lot of power.

Still we now have reliable scum and town alignments which we didn't have before.

[Oman]

The whole of our "confirmed scum"'s posts:

"@Loudmouth -

I would disagree that the vig has a 50/50 chance of hitting scum or town. There are a lot less scum in this game. Why would you say there is a 50/50 chance? The vig is much more likely to hit town that he is scum.

Anyway, I'm going to save my vote for the time being. "

"No access until either Sunday or Monday and I will have to re-read the thread then. "

[Oman]

Good evening.

Firstly, the Oman wagon is absolutely retarded.

Secondly, I would like to know why, of the players on the Sammich wagon, everyone jumped on Schteven in particular.

Now, this seems to be either to defend Schteven, or to get the Sammich wagon in an unfavourable light, defending Sammich.

Nothing that's happened recently has convinced me to support a shteven or Oman lynch, i don't think. This Tyler thing may be promising, i'll take a look in isolation.

Tyler looks likely town as there is no reason for a bus so early. Though, of course, there is the other side in which I say Fonz is likely a scumbuddy with Tyler due to this:

I do worry that we might be finding ourselves in a MAD I situation, where all those participating get increasingly pissed off with one another, and most if not all are town, whilst the scum just lurk through for victory, so I won't be supporting this wagon just yet.

which Fonz knows isn't true ("Most if not all are town") so I wonder why he rejects the wagon.

Thus, due to his rejection of the wagon for no logical reason:

Vote TylerJ

[Oman]

The idea I guess is that the cop would've told us his result if he were being lynched, not modkilled.

Also, you need to be less grumpy.

[Oman]

Thats a good point. I'm going to have to support the "Also, there is no conceivable reason for the mod to reveal a modkilled cop's result. I didn't notice this at the time due to my incredible pissed-offness at being modkilled for no reason, but it's one more piece of game distorting information." Rally.

[Oman]

I'm having a thought.

Perhaps we only have one cop (who is now dead) and the confirm on laptopgun was a balance maneauver.

[Oman]

Also, not sure of the benefits or problems of this, but I wanted to throw a massclaim onto the table.

I disagree with a massclaim at this point.

[Oman]

Yeah, But i suggest we take this to somewhere like MD and keep it out of the thread due to the distracting factor it will have.

[Oman]

Well, thats your opinion, but: "How would you feel if you'd put a large amount of time and effort into a game, spent a couple hours re-reading, and the thread was unneccesarily distracted and then shut down when still salvagable?"

[Oman]

Actually, Jordan, if we let it go on a little bit more I recon Fonz will get in a car or plane and go beat the shit out of Khelvaster. Lets watch.

(I support Abandonment).

[Oman]

Bolded section is not quite correct. LaptopGun can still be the SK.

No, he can't. Khel specifically said he was a TOWNIE.

[Oman]

Do we want to do a massclaim? I wouldn't mind seeing who the scum were.

I'm a cop, I investigated LML N1 Innocent.

[Oman]

5. Perhaps Khel didn't want to mod kill the other MIA's because there are more mafia members or power roles represented in that group.

Exactly, which is why he

should

have killed them. It's not the mod's place to choose which roles to keep alive for balance sakes, because then that leaves players guessing "Well, did mod leave them alive because they're town power roles, or because they're Mafia?" which is

not

what Mafia is about.

I'm a Doc, I protected LML N0.

ZOMG, we were so on the same wavelength.


Even though I was getting a lot of excitiment from this game, I will not continue it, I feel it has shifted too far from the actual spirit of the game.

I vote that New C9 goes back to the open queue so that people can play it again if they want.

[Oman]

Yup.

With 8 active takes 5 to abandon.

[Oman]

Khel, I think its fair to say the game was fucked before you arrived. Thanks for attempting to save it, you did pretty well.

[Oman]

CKD was the vig.

I didn't twig that you were teh doc, but being a cop, I didn't bother to look.

[Oman]

Justin, you must play the next one.

[Oman]

And as my confirmed town was after you, you were first on my investigation list.

You were screwed.