Mafia 70: Traditional - Game over!

[Aimee]

OMGUS vote: KScope

Obv scum.

[Aimee]

Limited access for perhaps just over a week.

unvote

[Aimee]

ZOMG PBPA!

yay! joke bandwagon still around! hooray!

lets see what happens when hmrox gets 6

UNVOTE
VOTE: hmrox

Wooooo awessome

Interesting that you chose hmrox over Flameaxe here. I'm noting this for later.

i have been debating back and forth about tdoing this in my mind, and i think it is in the wowns best intrests to do this.

I am part of a 5 man mason team. and i was told from the begining that there there is at least one scum among us. i think i know who it is.

i sent out a nice high to everyone. and three people responded back with a nice high as well, however,

Simenon,

Responded with this line about how he thought out of 5 of us, at least one of us is probally mafia. and all this warning that was stated in the opening pm. i personally think that i cought Simenon as scum in pregame, for clearly not knowing the townie mason pm. When i called him out on this, he didn't respond. and he had atleast 2 days (i think) to do so. he picked up the pm and then said nothin.

there was reason for my vote on this man. and it is going to stand, as i think this is the best lead we're gonna get in no night 0 day one.

I really do not see why you claimed here. Now the scum know two out of the five masons, and can potentially find the others through voting patterns.

However, I'm also concerned about the way Carrotcake just jumped in bandwagonned Simenon without really thinking that Niv could have been lying (Niv's evidence was incredibly far from conclusive).

i have a feeling that Niv and Lemming are mafia. lemming was starting to gain votes from all his bandwagon hopping, and i think that Niv called out simenon to pull pressure off his scum buddy.

If they are scum then that's great - that move would have been

so

obvious.

I dislike how MoS automatically believes Niv, even when Simenon said that another Mason buddy can confirm what he got.

Interesting that he focuses all the attention on MoS, and doesn't even mention Carrotcake, who did exactly the same thing. Possible scum partnership?

Ckillor's thoughts make sense (regarding Niv and Lemming possibly being mafia) despite it being unliekly and not the best plan for the mafia if it's true. so

FOS Lemming

as well.

I don't understand this. You call it unlikely, yet still FoS Lemming for it? How does that work?

I didn't like his non-committal FoSing of Niv and Simenon - it reeks of just sitting on the fence.

Yet you ignore the reasoning behind it. MoS automatically believes someone whose actions cannot be confirmed, and is suspicious of the ones action who can be confirmed.

Even more interesting. That's twice now you have singled out MoS and not even mentioned Carrotcake (who did the same thing).

Vote ZONEACE

I think this is a good direction.

Your shameless bandwagonning is noted.

I don't understand ZONEACE's posts sometimes. = (

I don't know why ZONEACE claimed there was "zero logic" against him, when there quite clearly was a case.

Ok, so there were a couple more people berating him who might have voted for him but it's still only two votes. So I find it hard to believe that Niv would make a move to protect a scum partner who's only received two votes when twelve are needed to lynch. Contrary to Zoneace I find Ckillor's thoughts to make no sense at all. I don't really know what to make of this, I'm just throwing it out there.

QFT.

First off, i dislike the way in which, an anti-Flameaxe BW formed on Hmrox very quickly.

FoS: Flameaxe

Um, what?

You didn't like the Flameaxe wagon so you FoS

Flameaxe

?

On the other hand, he has claimed vanilla. I'm no expert on Mafia, but i'd been taught that scum don't usually claim vanilla, because often, it doesnt change alot.

Complete WIFOM speculation.

Yeah I agree that Zorg's 133 was quite sucky.

Simenon is a better lynch than ZONEACE.

Explain?

Scum:

ckillor (see above post)
Zoneace (typical scum day 1 meltdown under slight pressure)
Simenon (scum mason)

Choices, choices, so many choices.

I want you to explain why Ckillor's post was scummy.

Also, adding TS to the list of people that blindly believed Niv (which also includes Carrotcake and MoS).

I noted that Carrotcake talked a bit about the Mason issue, yet kept her vote on Simenon. (163) I will have to look at this later.

The advantage of a mason group is that they can talk at night.

Actually I'd say the main advantage is that they can know the innocence of others (although in this case that is less valuable since there are unconfirmed masons.)

Niv - please explain why Simenon's actions are more likely to be done by scum than by town.

I see no reason to lynch ZONEACE, but Niv's point against Simenon seems more than enough reason to vote right now.

Why have you consistently been pro-Niv and anti-Simenon.

Flare:

I think Patrick so good a mod that there is NO scum mason.

How does this even make sense?

Miller mason? I could buy that. Personally, though, I feel like Niv just jumped to conclusions based on a misreading of what Sim said, and that suggesting one or other MUST be scum is a false dichotomy on Zoneace's part.

I agree wholeheartedly with this point.

BUT THE WARNING NOT TO TALK WAS NOT IN THE MASON PM!!.

So it was in the scum PM. I see.

Vote Simenon

.

Tell me - what have you done all game?

Don't you see the problem with a scum mason? He knows who the other masons are AND he can talk with the other scum. What exactly is the point in having masons in that case if the scum know who they are? Would Patrick mod do something like this?

I am leaning towards a SK mason.

I don't see any real value in this speculation.

Note to self: re-read Sir Tornado's posts to see if he is scum hunting.

You called the wagon you were currently sitting on an easy wagon. No doubts. No acknowledgement you were sitting there. No.

Good catch.

even i am now starting to think that it's a misunderstanding. i think now that hte best place to look is Zone.

Why Zoneace?

I've only read through the first 5 pages so far, so that's all I've got for now.

Five pages and that's all you come up with? Oh wait, there's more later...

Get a real bad feeling about Carrotcake and Flare. Don't understand why, just have a bad gut feeling about it.

I actually have bad feelings about them as well.

I'm probably going to have another re-read and hear some reactions before placing a vote.

[Aimee]

[quote="The Venerable Zorg"]No, i meant that when Flameaxe recieved some pressure, a wagon quickly formed on Hmrox. This felt a bit like an attempt to take the pressure off Flameaxe-if the scum were scared that their buddy was going to get lynched. [/quote]

Still, this explains not why you didn't FoS those who were on the Flameaxe wagon, which according to your explanation would have made more sense.

[quote="The Fonz"]Flameaxe didn't come under any pressure though. It was a completely random, unreasoned bandwagon.[/quote]

QFT.

[quote="Simenon"]I don't remember advocating my own lynch.[/quote]

ZOMG now I need to read all eleven pages again for this!

[quote="Flare"]Carrot didn't even seen Sim's defense. [/quote]

I find the way she did this to be telling (although in hindsight not as telling as what MoS did.)

[quote="Zeppo"]Someone suggested earlier (I think) that Zoneace might be a Jester. I think it's time to start seriously considering this. I can't believe that anyone would play as badly as he does. Especially since he is quite an experienced player. [/quote]

I disagree, thisis how Zoneace plays. Considering it to be jester-like is somewhat absurd.

[quote="KScope"]Can we please lynch ZONEACE? [/quote]

Can you please give reasoning?

[quote="Sir Tornado"]Well... Zoneace could be a jester, but I would not expect a jester in a Patrick mod game. Vote stays. [/quote]

This kind of logic is unbelievably ridiculous. Attempting to judge a mod - in a large

normal

- seems pretty stupid.

[quote="The Venerable Zorg"]Erg0's protection of Zoneace is interesting. I'm liking Mastermind less atm-his last post was simply copying what Erg0 had already said. Plus he seemed VERY confident that Zoneace isnt scum... [/quote]

Complete fail. Erg0 didn't defend Zoneace, he pointed out that this is his playstyle. Since his play is following his playstyle, it doesn't have much of an effect on his alignment.

Conversely, your notable jump onto the MoS wagon

does

make you look opportunistic and scummy.

[quote="ZONEACE"]how is me STATING MY TRUE SUSPICIONS ABOUT NIV, SIMEON AND LEMMING DELIBERATLEY NONCOMMITAL?????? [/quote]

The way you took both sides of the Niv-Simenon debate

is

non-committal. You're welcome to disagree, but I don't think you will find reasoning to support your disagreement.

[quote="Simenon"]Please switch your votes to Yamahako and not someone so distracting, thanks. [/quote]

I like this.

[quote="Zeppo"]I'm not sure if you're scum or not. To be honest, I don't really care. Either you are scum and therefore are a good lynch or you're just such such a bad townie at this point that lynching you in day 1 might actually be beneficial to the town in the long run because you won't confuse matters for the rest of the game. [/quote]

Don't agree. It would be a wasted lynch really. Although the way you take a really non-committal approach to Zoneace is very telling.

[quote="Beastly"]

unvote, vote Toaster Strudel

I'd comment on the mason issue but it's totally confusing me, Zoneace for all his supposed faults is striking me as an easy target.[/quote]

Why TS?

Also comment on the mason issue. Thanks!

[quote="Beastly"]Flameaxe why not her? I don't like her attack at MoS if you must know, seems forced. MoS said he'd be inactive. [/quote]

Okay, why "If you must know"? Did you have any real reason to conceal your reasoning like you seem to be suggesting?

[quote="JDodge"]Flare, Yamahako and TS are much better lynches. [/quote]

Agreed about Yamahako. I'd also be okay about a Zorg lynch.

[quote="Zorg"]This post came just after a post by Erg0, in which Erg0 had suggested that Zoneace always plays this way. Mastermind appears to have felt an urge to repeat exactly what Erg0 had just said. Yet i dont recall Mastermind saying this before. This could be an example of buddying up, by following the lead of Erg0. I havent played with Mastermind before (though he is in a game i am starting now), so can someone please tell me whether he is always this erratic? [/quote]

Uh, he didn't repeat this at all. Erg0 said "ZONEACE plays like that in different games", and MoS verified this and

explained

why SirT's points were flawed. So no, it wasn't exactly a useless post.

[quote="Lemming"]1) Just because he acts this way in another game doesn't give him the right to act like this in this game. [/quote]

No one even remotely said this. They just said that since he plays like this all the time, his actions don't really have an effect on his alignment.

Flare agreeing with Zorg is highly interesting (about MoS). I did not like Zorg's attack on MoS at all, but Flare jumping on it is interesting.

[quote="Niv"]also, can ytou point a single pro town post by zone? [/quote]

Can you show me examples of when ZONEACE hasn't played like this in other games?

[quote="Niv"]i don't think i have ever played w/ you in the past. could you please tell me when you have played w/ me. [/quote]

Why at all is this a good reason to vote for someone?

[quote="Niv"]ok, i can handle this, i think. however, i don't see any reason you would want to not reveal this now. why is that? can you atleas ask a game you played w/ me in, so i can see where you are coming from on your view of me as an eratic Newb? [/quote]

Furthermore, why do you keep your vote on?

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]I do not like ZONEACE, The Fonz, Celtic and Yamahoko

Vote: Celtic

[/quote]

Now actually give reasons.

[quote="Toaster Strudel"]As I explained earlier, MoS is a survivor. He's hard to read, and very good at avoiding night kills. It's never a bad long-term strategy, especially in a big game, to keep some heat on MoS. If he's scum, you hope that he might slip up. I don't know if that's what Flare and Zorg have in mind, but I sure wouldn't like MoS to get complacent.[/quote]

Care to comment on other issues?

[quote="Lemming"]I like how the two scummiest people I've seen in the game are defending each other.

I still believe that ZONEACE is scum, but MOS is getting up there as well. My vote stays on ZONEACE because he's an idiot on top of him being scummy.

I will megapost MOS later though to show you why I think he's scummy. [/quote]

Please do this, and give reasons why they are the two scummiest. Thanks.

Yamahako seriously is scummy. Voting for MoS, giving no reasons whilst he is on a big bandwagon is very opportunistic.

I don't like White's entrance either. It's pretty non-committal, especially about MoS and ZONEACE.

Okay. Overall, I'd most like to vote Yamahako, since I've seen nothing good, but lots scummy from him. I would also be happy with voting for Zorg too.

Vote: Yamahako

[Aimee]

/selfprod.

Hoping to reread today and post. But it could be tomorrow. Sorry!

[Aimee]

Zorg's 133 looks very pro-Town

Why?

Also,

FoS: Setael

. Your opening analysis was just a summary, accompanied with various "this post was scummy" comments. Not lking, since this is incredibly non-committal.

Yamahako is now coming across as pro-town.

unvote

Although I don't particularly appreciate being called scummy, but Beastly analysis gives me good vibes (particularly his Zorg vote).

Ether, why did you back down on Flare (can you summarise your case against him)?

KScope, what are your reasons for voting Celtic again?

SirT, by voting for yourself, what were you trying to

achieve

?

Zorg, why is lynching a lurker preferencial to lynching either Yama or White?

I don't like Toaster Strudel's posts at all, but at the same time, she always gives me this vibe, as scum or town.

I think we need to apply some pressure here. The snippet Yamahako quoted in his last post has me thinking that Zorg is just looking for every possible place to apply pressure and fling about suspicion. He's been doing this pretty much all game.

This is an excellent point.

Re-read list:

Ether
TS
MoS
Zorg
erg0/Fonz dispute
KScope
Celtic/booboodafool
Flare

[Aimee]

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]Mainly his go with the flow posts. Gut says scum[/quote]

Note to self: check this.

[quote="Sir T"]I was trying to show White that voting yourself is not always bad play, but seeing how dense he is, I have given up. [/quote]

Can you explain how trying to prove this is actually helping the town? It seems like far more of a distraction that has no real merit.

[Aimee]

I agree with MoS and erg0 (can I be the other girl?) I shall post more later.

[Aimee]

Yamahako, Setael, Flare and White are higly suspect.

Zorg?

[Aimee]

vote: Toaster Strudel

Mainly for 857. It really makes her look as though she is blatantly setting White up as a mislynch.

[Aimee]

unvote, vote: Zorg

[Aimee]

Whelp, Lemming comes across to me as being the far more convincing of the two cops. So the question I have to ask myself now is could there be multiple cops? Sure there could. But it's far from guaranteed. I have my suspicions of other players, namely those that I voted for, but I wasn't dead certain about any of them. So for now at least TS seems the best lynch,

Vote: Toaster Strudel

???

Why is it

at all

beneficial to lynch a claimed cop on Day 1? Why is Lemming more convincing than TS?

I'm not getting this, really. Two cops does seem like a distinct possibility, but unlike others, I'm not prepared to lynch to find out.

[Aimee]

Uh, why are people even considering lynching a claimed cop on Day 1?

Zorg would be much better as an alternative.

[Aimee]

/Oops.

I'm on a different computer now because my laptop had a hissy fit. Hopefully it will be okay by tomorrow so I can finish and post my Zorg case (which is half done on the other computer).

Although seriously... Zorg voting, anyone?

[Aimee]

No access 'till Monday.

[Aimee]

I need to re-read more but I still don't like BM/Zorgie, and I'm getting more bad vibes about Yamahako's play as well. Although a re-read is, of course, necessary.

[Aimee]

Vote: Battle Mage

(can you show me the post when MoS was rolefishing, by the way)

Zorg was horribly scummy, and this is the best wagon at the moment.

[Aimee]

Um, why are people voting Bookitty?

[Aimee]

limited access.

grrr