NY 190: Molla's Large Normal

[TheWorst]

/confirm

[TheWorst]

This game looks to be fun! Just have that special feeling.

VOTE: I am Innocent

Are you?

[TheWorst]

This game looks to be fun! Just have that special feeling.

VOTE: I am Innocent

Are you?

inb4 I am Innocent says "and you are the worst"

And then someone else finds Innocent hilarious and finds me lame.

And then the cycle repeats.

[TheWorst]

Oh wait, you actually confirmed.

yup, try reading next time

Only dropped out one time (and by your post I guess that was a game you were in) from circumstances beyond my control.

Wont have an issue this game

VOTE: BananaCucho

That is a scummy GIF!

Hold up, if that's a scummy GIF, then shouldn't choof, who actually owns the gif as an avatar, be scummier?

I question your logic, good sir.

[TheWorst]

Wow this sprung up quickly.
Make my introductions one day, the next we have WIFOM, meta, and five pages already. I can barely catch up!

AJ

seems alright. Wagon on him a bit random, reacted well though.

Banana

is a great scum player, something to keep in mind as I see townreads on her so early. Liking her so far in this game, but we'll see. Hopefully we'll catch scum this time instead of being at odds.
Hey

Performer

, some people just want to have fun in a game. Mwahahaha!

I am Innocent

says RVS is over, but then votes on what is essentially an RVS wagon.

I still like my vote!

[TheWorst]

I was gonna post something else buuuuut ok catboi. calling me awful or whatever.

104 from TheWorst is AWFUL. Entirely overcautious, manages to say virtually nothing. Justification of the vote is absolutely terrible, entirely self-evident that Innocent felt he had valid reasons for making the vote regardless of anyone else's vote (and my vote sure as hell isn't "random"). Lousy, forced reasoning.

Thanks man, I worked

hard

for that post, glad you appreciated it. I felt as though Innocent's posts didn't show me much. His post and vote there seemed weak, with a little "

Gotcha!

" line saying that RVS is over when in context, it was an RVS wagon that he leapt on. That's what got me.
And if it wasn't random as you say, it certainly seemed random from my perspective (I'm sure others share it) as there was no interaction with AJ, no warning, no reasoning, just telling others to join the wagon. Was it for a reaction or something?
The rest of my post was just my thoughts/feelings on the game so far, but nothing too special. Lazy? Sure, I'll accept that. AWFUL? C'mon man, chill.

[TheWorst]

I meant it as in you're scum. You're certainly not changing that impression. You made a series of "thoughts/feelings" that say virtually nothing and look far more like an attempt to appear busy than an attempt to provide insight. None of what you've said has resembled genuine scumhunting whatsoever.

Nah that's not true, I'm glad you're criticizing my playstyle though; you're right, I need to focus and scumhunt more. I've been overwhelmed in the game so far, with all of these wall posts, how fast this game has been, and school; I've just been trying to catch up at this point. I'm used to slower games, gotta get used to this. I'll try and shape up tomorrow, probably will have more time since it's a Friday. HOPEFULLY.

I do find it funny that you find my lazy catch up post scummy though.

[TheWorst]

UNVOTE: I am Innocent for now, I was hoping to get something out of that RVS vote, but alas. I want you to talk!

VeeGee

and

Talah

both seem confused from what little content that they contributed, which is usually never a good thing. However, while Talah actually asks decent probing questions to clear up her confusion and get a read, VeeGee adds unnecessary comments and doesn't appear to try to understand the situation. I could only see this coming from the perspective of a lazy town or a low-effort scum.
Either way, I'd like to hear him speak more. Soooo VOTE: Veegee Hi.

I still don't like

catboi

's focus on me, when there's others who have lacked content on the whole. I don't see how my post 104 was so egregious, it's pretty clear I was trying to catch up to a game's speed I wasn't used to with some quick thoughts in a lax tone. And my point on IaI is clearly contentious, but I think I still had a point at the time. Choof in some ways agreed with me here: 129, and AJ kinda had the same idea.

Actually, reread and I liked what choof did with Banana that many interpret as an argument, reminds me of what Bacde did with me once.
Also of the TvT argument with Banana that ended bad.
I want to know if the gripes

@Choof

had with Banana is legit or was it all a reaction test. If so the former, that makes me curious about

Kyubey

who went all in for real with the Banana case. I'd like to know from him if he still thinks Banana is scummy.

FAQ's last post does bug me a bit, not enough to vote though. I would expect him to know better though, rather than trying to get brownie points.

@Banana

Care to explain the Luna vote?

@Performer

I'd like to know your reads now that all of your initial scumreads apparently dissipated.

@Luna Fox

You don't interact too much with some of your townreads, like Talah and Kyubey. Wouldn't that make you more sure if that's your playstyle? I understand some people can have town actions, but are they really that strong when it comes to those two?

[TheWorst]

You don't interact too much with some of your townreads, like Talah and Kyubey. Wouldn't that make you more sure if that's your playstyle? I understand some people can have town actions, but are they really that strong when it comes to those two?

I have interacted with Kyubey, talah hasn't been around at the same time i am except that one time i said talah was town (i think)

Ehhh it was one post that Kyubey responded to, and it was a correction.
If I had your playstyle, I'd make sure to chat people up and see their intentions just to be sure. It'd be better than explaining yourself constantly like you've been doing.

What'd you see special in Kyubey and Talah that I haven't seen? More Kyubey.

[TheWorst]

Luna all these posts. Pls.

Ok I can see your points then. Specifically that he was open to admitting that he was wrong while on the Banana wagon, which I view as town.
Still think you should talk to your TR's more often, just as a suggestion.

P-Edit: And then AJ comes in as the cynic. Brings up a good point, the snippet missed the bigger picture.
Funny how you two are so diametrically opposed. Should work together (supposing you're both town), it'd be a good cop bad cop team.

[TheWorst]

What is your definition of an RVS wagon?

My definition of an RVS wagon is a wagon that props up out of nowhere with no reasoning.

The only thing I could gather from that wagon other than it being seemingly random was that it was for pressure, but it didn't really work. Probably because AJ wasn't even aware it was a pressure wagon. If you wanted to put pressure on him for his first posts, it would've been better to clarify why. The first few voters are more guilty of it than you.
The whole 2nd vote thing you mention doesn't matter to me as the votes made without explanation anyway. More of a random wagon for wording, than an RVS wagon.

Why not ask me why I voted rather than just jump on that post?

I kept my vote on you for that reason, to get you to talk. But you kinda sorta ignored me until now.

In post 257, TheWorst wrote:
VeeGee and Talah both seem confused from what little content that they contributed, which is usually never a good thing.

Confused? Kind of a superficial assessment don't you think?
If you're about to quote this post - don't bother:
In post 76, talah wrote:
I'm a little confused as to what the "this" that might not work, is.

Asking for clarification on a completely ambiguous statement (from choof's post 46) is different from being literally "confused".

Unless you'd like to elaborate on why you think I'm confused.

You gave the impression of being confused after asking all of those questions, not only to choog. I felt like it didn't lead to anything at first, but Luna remains convinced that you were reading

Catboi

clearly takes issue with my playstyle more than anything and fits it into his confirmation bias. If you want to see how I play on D1, look at my meta. I don't take hardlined stances at first (prefer to keep my options open), I like asking questions, I like provoking discussion, and I pace myself slowly.
That's why I find your responses more insulting than anything.

---

Keeping my vote on

Veegee

, still want more from him. Idc if he's an "easy" wagon, I put my vote on him not to lynch, but to have conversation.
He told me that he would post more on weekend, and he did

technically

, but it really wasn't much. What do you think of FA_Q and Performer?

Zakk

hasn't given much of anything either, but that doesn't mean Veegee is innocent. He's definitely lacking in content though, and according to Vedith he usually posts more.

Performer's

posts are annoying to look at, but from what I've seen he has given bits and pieces of insight. Albeit, in annoying emo and disorganized fashion. Not willing to lynch him quite yet, I want to hear more from him. Pressure is fine on him though.

FA_Q

is still bugging me, especially when he ignored the reasons against him. I'm more willing to vote him if need be.

AAAAAA I got stuff to do, cutting this post a bit short. well, it's already a wall to catch up/respond with, but whatever.

[TheWorst]

AAAAAA I got stuff to do, cutting this post a bit short. well, it's already a wall to catch up/respond with, but whatever.

Just want to note first of all, this is important.
I provided my stances on the "inactive" "low content" players first, since they rarely post in the first place and I felt as though since that's who everyone focuses on, I decided I may as well give my own perspective on them. Still wanted to provoke them to talk. I prefer to question and engage others who actually post because you see, interactions are important D1, but I didn't have enough time to, as shown above.

The fact is here he's really only hitting low-content players who have been voted or at least fos'd by people in this game. I'm going to go out on a slightly crazy limb here and say I think this is a scumtell, but I don't really know why. I think I've been hit for it before in the past, and people have pointed it out to me. I think, in part, it shows a person isn't legitimately scumhunting and is just following along with the crowd. A town player should be looking at everyone and trying to read them, but for scum it's more convenient to just look at the popular wagons. Again this isn't a great explanation but I'd swear by the fact that someone has told me this, I just don't remember the exact reasoning it's bad.

I'm glad that you're willing to lynch me D1 based on a tell you yourself are not even sure of. I didn't follow the crowd, if I did I wouldn't have kept my vote on Veegee and said Performer is scummy as fuck. My post wasn't even done, but I've said that already. The only actual case I've seen you do is on me (inherently wrong, so no brownie points), maybe AJ that was much lighter though, everyone else has gotten small comments here or there.
Not only that, but then I see you give others the benefit of the doubt, E.G. Zakk who doesn't even try, and Veegee, who posts minimum anything, and that bugs me. Basically, I'd look less scummy to you if I didn't post than actually trying to keep up with the game, trying to engage others, put effort? What sense does that make?

Added to that, it's really pretty useless commentary! again, voting a lurky player for "pressure" is a meaningless token gesture for scum that is done to attempt to look town while taking on really no risk at all. Also pretty lame to be pressing veegee for content when he's offered up essentially none himself, I think. It's such a weak cop-out for a vote. DOn't see any reasoning behind him asking veegee about faq2 or performer except that they were also getting wagoned. the sentence on zakk is useless! All he says is thathe hasn't posted much! No kidding, anyone could see that from looking at the activity overview! Worst doesn't bother to say whether he finds it suspicious, just essentially goes to restate the obvious. It's non-analysis posing as commentary. The Performer "read" is just, he's annoying but has "bits and pieces of insight" (where? what? who knows) and he's not scummy but you can pressure him and maybe I'll vote him later - it's a total non-stance. Doesn't really manage to say anything about performer at all. Last bit not much better, just saying fa_q2 is bad because he "ignored the reasons against him", whatever that means. It just feels like cheap analysis. COuld I see a town player thinking this? I guess, but the way he expresses it feels off. It's not really new or insightful, just kind of piggybacking on another guy that's been pressured.

It feels like you'e more refusing to

understand

my post rather than analyze it. If you couldn't tell from the post, I basically don't want a lynch now and I'm catching up. I want to talk. Which I've said and done before.
Is that anti-town? Is that scummy? Honestly?

worst referenced his meta, the only remotely recent meta on him is Mini 1705, and the difference is night and day - there he pretty quickly delves into actual analysis and makes legitimate attempts at scumhunting. in 59 there's a press on something he finds suspicious, then he starts asking questions with a point, drops meta-analysis on a player he doesn't see doing much (bacde) - there's a decent deal of interrogation and accusation going on there. He doesn't give reads for a while but not hard to see honest scumhunting in the questioning, trying to figure out people's reasoning and the like. There's really none of that here and most of what he's said has been constructed seemingly in an effort to avoid riling anyone up. The fact that he didn't bother to look into veegee's meta is also pretty bad, suggests here he's more concerned with simply pushing the easy lynch rather than investigating if he's making a vote based on playstyle.

yeah guess what? If you saw the game, you'd notice it was

much

slower game relatively where I had more time (didn't have school either) to chew and dissect other posts. I posted once a day for the most part besides the first few days, which is the same as now and has been to my detriment so far. I didn't tend to give my reads, as you saw. The thing on Bacde was my frustration since he was posting nonsensically on that game, meanwhile he was posting seriously in other games. And it didn't lead to anything, 'cause he wasn't scum. Ask

Banana

, he can back me up on this meta.

In this game, I've felt the urge to catch up constantly since it's been like literally 100 posts a day. Not even kidding, do the math. 5 days 500 posts.

AND WHO SAYS I'M PUSHING THE EASY LYNCH? I don't want Veegee lynched right now. The only way you could get this impression is from AJ's vote, and he voted second. I voted Veegee first, and that was something they call a "pressure vote".

Keeping my vote on Veegee, still want more from him. Idc if he's an "easy" wagon,

I put my vote on him

not to lynch

, but to have conversation.

First you say

I'm too weak on Veegee

, then you say

I'm "pushing the easy lynch"

. What? Which is it? Stick to one story if you want to try to make me look scummy, because to me it seems that's your only goal so far is tunneling me.

@EVERYONE

There's 9 days left. Would it be more beneficial to lynch now, or to lynch later? Maybe I'm wrong for wanting to talk some more, after all "talking some more" for me meant 100 posts more to look over. I can try to adapt.

I'll continue posting, since that was a wall and in response to one person, still need to address some stuff and engage some more.

[TheWorst]

You gave the impression of being confused after asking all of those questions, not only to choog. I felt like it didn't lead to anything at first, but Luna remains convinced

in post 199 that you were reading AJ in specific by asking those questions. Did you gather anything from those questions?

Is this an unfinished thought?
Can you complete it - and what does Luna being convinced of something have to do with your own assessment?

Fixed in the bold. At least, I think my thought process was going along those lines. I mentioned Luna as an additional perspective of your posts for me to consider, as what I mentioned before is why she views you as town.

I feel like someone else has mentioned this - but what's with the false correlary between Zakk and VeeGee?
I get the distinct impression that VeeGee will post more with less votes. What's your vote supposed to achieve?

I was addressing VeeGee's posts talking about how Zakk hasn't given much.
How do you get that impression? Now I'm curious. My vote is with the intent of getting him to talk. Pressure vote.
I'll probably change my vote later if it's not working as you say. Even seems like he'll only be active on the weekend, which is a problem in of itself.

Performer's

posts are annoying to look at, but from what I've seen he has given bits and pieces of insight. Albeit, in annoying emo and disorganized fashion. Not willing to lynch him quite yet, I want to hear more from him. Pressure is fine on him though.

FA_Q

is still bugging me, especially when he ignored the reasons against him. I'm more willing to vote him if need be.

What do you mean by "bits and pieces of insight" from Performer?
Do you have any questions for FAQ yourself?

Performer has had his moments, mainly I thought post 418 got the point against Zakk and understood that VeeGee's activity is a bit of a problem. He's definitely annoying, no question, but I feel as though the supposed gimmick is getting him a wagon more so than usual. Looking over his ISO again in more detail, some posts are pretty damn bad, thought he had better posts first look-through, but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt for now and I want to hear him respond to the wagon first right now.
Regarding his "soft-claim" which was in that post, I'm not so sure it's a soft-claim or if it's just a question to throw VeeGee off and get a reaction. In which VeeGee responded to by assuming what everyone else was assuming.

I'll ask some questions for others tonight while looking through the game, maybe sooner if I somehow have time during class. At the same time, I'll just participate normally from now on and try to pace myself better.
No more catch-up posts. Hopefully no more walls.

[TheWorst]

I'm interested in hearing from Banana regarding her vote, since she has meta with me.

How did Catboi convince you? In fact, I'm more puzzled that you would let Catboi try to convince you since you yourself have meta on me, I'd expect you to at least make a decision for yourself based on how I played in that Mini.
You're the one who I expected to step up regarding the meta.
Not only that, you explicitly said you had a town read because of a specific post I had. What changed?

P-Edit: I've been in that position before, frustrating but you can't just give up just because people are trying to intentionally get you mad. In fact, Choof did it for a reaction.

May as well unvote since Veegee doesn't seem to care about the vote.
UNVOTE: Veegee

[TheWorst]

Did you have someone else you find suspicious?

FA_Q, I've said this. He's more of a gut read though, nothing I'm particularly strong on. Just judging by the tone of his posts. Also hasn't posted in a bit.

Naw I killed you that game because I felt you were scumhunting and asking the right questions. Doesn't feel the same here.

Ah, I hear that asking questions actually shows a lack of effort and is disingenuous.
Your reasons aren't exactly aligning with Catboi's, I also don't see how he convinced you if it seems like you're apparently already convinced.

What changed from post 257 onward in my ISO that was a scumread?

[TheWorst]

I'm going to level with you TheWorst. Just like the vote on Luna, the vote on you was lazy. I just don't find myself giving a shit anymore.

I had a feeling, at least you admitted it.
Don't be so discouraged, I'd like to see you try, esp if you're town like I thought.

[TheWorst]

Gonna post more tomorrow, schoolwork got to me. Happy to see quick replacements, nice to see Titus again. Drama a bit discouraging, but I feel better now.

[TheWorst]

My response to Talah, feel free to read it. It was sitting in my draft for a while. Bit too long with the quotes, so I spoilered it.

Spoiler: @Talah

You gave the impression of being confused after asking all of those questions, not only to choog. I felt like it didn't lead to anything at first, but Luna remains convinced

in post 199 that you were reading AJ in specific by asking those questions. Did you gather anything from those questions?

Fixed in the bold. At least, I think my thought process was going along those lines. I mentioned Luna as an additional perspective of your posts for me to consider, as what I mentioned before is why she views you as town.

AJ switched out of RVS, stated his dislike of it and then explained why he attempted to participate in it. My initial intent in asking questions like this in RVS is to pick up on inconsistencies in thought or suspicions (especially of distancing), and approach the player with a question which might clarify that, or a behaviour of my own which might be the same as the player they laid an RVS vote on (or other things similar to that). At that point in the game it's pretty much to interact pointedly, although with a random/rvs reason, to see if the player is comfortable and has a mindset I can understand. It also tends to provoke other discussion and opinions when a conversation of that type leads into more serious detail.
So yeah I got a bit out of it, not exclusively the AJ-town read. It's something I might go back to later for reference - RVS has some pretty good tells and if you're balls-to-the-wall about it you can probably have at least leans on most players after the first couple of times they post.

So Luna's perspective - how does that affect yours?

If guess if it isn't obvious enough, I have a town read on Luna and I'm considering her town read on you as another perspective on your early post.

I was addressing VeeGee's posts talking about how Zakk hasn't given much.
How do you get that impression? Now I'm curious. My vote is with the intent of getting him to talk. Pressure vote.
I'll probably change my vote later if it's not working as you say. Even seems like he'll only be active on the weekend, which is a problem in of itself.

The addressing of VeeGee's posts didn't come across that way at all because the sentence is structured as a conditional. "Zakk hasn't given much, but that doesn't mean Veegee is innocent." to paraphrase.
You also didn't address VeeGee directly in this post although you said you wanted a conversation. Why not?

He told me that he would post more on weekend, and he did technically, but it really wasn't much.

What do you think of FA_Q and Performer?

That was the previous post, which I believe he ignored.
I'm not hot on Veegee ATM, I feel as though he's been contributing to the conversation enough lately.
Which ironically started one post after my post you just quoted, post 537.

Catboi

clearly takes issue with my playstyle more than anything and fits it into his confirmation bias.

How did you form this impression? Also confbias is a town-trait... When did you start townreading him?

Because as I said, this is my playstyle he keeps ragging on about. Confirmation bias comes from one of my ideas that catboi is town that saw and jumped on my first posts and has been tunneling me ever since. Not a single one of my posts "impresses" him, I can see that as refusal to understand since he really does feel like he caught scum since his initial read on me.
Of course, there's also the idea that he's tunneling scum, that mainly comes from past experience where I dealt with Thor scum. I could imagine Catboi being good and aggressive scum, but I'd have to check his meta first.

@Vedith

Could you perhaps point out the differences between Zakk's meta now and before? Maybe a specific post or game that you guys shared, explain your meta on Zakk that makes you think he's scum.

@Titus

What's your opinion on your predecessor's tunnel/scumread on me? Do you agree? Have you considered it?

@AJ

I liked your nickname for me as wicked. Not buddying, just letting you know.

@Skybird

What's your opinion on choof's/your slot's claim before replacing out?

@Performer

Who do you suspect the least out of your FoS? Your 5 FoS should be specified more, basically.

The game has been picking up recently, which is good. Let's talk! Reminder that we have

4 days

.
Where's

VeeGee

at? It's the weekend! TGIF

[TheWorst]

Already got prodded last night, been working on my post since.

I was actually a fan of the Vedith wagon, but it seems like that dissipated already.

Frankly, I'm a bit sick of Day 1 at this point. 45 pages is RIDICULOUS for Day 1, or am I crazy for saying that? That's more pages than most of my games
Anyway, I'm glad we have Catboi the 2nd and all, but at this point I'm ready for Day 2 to start.

Zakk 's recent outburst of posts doesn't strike me as particularly scummy, though it does bother me that he only had the will to start responding once the wagon kicked in, despite the general concerns about him that popped up beforehand. I tried looking through his meta myself since Vedith didn't give me anything before, and I couldn't find a game where he played as mafia. All of his town games had him being much more active as Vedith suggested, so I don't understand what's different about this game that he was more quiet, unless he can't handle two games at once, which I would understand.
And his votes have been less than stellar, obviously, as stated.

But his recent posts still leave me with some doubt despite what I've said. I think there would be better lynches like FA_Q, but there's not much else we can do since there's a limited amount of time left.
Zakk, please claim.

P-Edit: Oh welp. TV means hammer.
Should I hammer now that I'm here? Or just wait for VeeGee.

[TheWorst]

Yeah they are, they're a PR that replaces the TV of your target at night. It detects whether or not the target is either watching you (the TV) at home or is visiting.

Pretty good role, kinda like a weaker tracker. Shame that Zakk claimed it, it's a bit too late to stop the wagon.

[TheWorst]

... yeeeeah no.

Having 45 pages to lead to a no lynch, nah.
There's nothing I disagree with more than a vote for a no lynch (in most cases), besides maybe the good ol' self-vote.

[TheWorst]

I was hoping I wasn't gonna be revealed so quickly, then again I did choose AJ, what should I expect?
Yeah I'm a

Friendly Neighbor

and I targeted AJ last night.

I think there's a possibility for two Friendly Neighbors, I'm not willing to lynch Skybird for it.

[TheWorst]

Ugh. Skeeved out.

Is your ability limited in number of shots?

Nope, I'm unlimited. A regular Friendly Neighbor.

I was honestly waiting for Catboi's reaction to my Friendly Neighbor visit, it would've been hilarious! But alas, it wasn't meant to be.

[TheWorst]

You're an unlimited friendly neighbour, who has no problem with there being ANOTHER one of you AND a town bulletproof doctor?

No way. No way at all. TheWorst and AJ are scum together.

pffft.
I never wanted this reveal in the first place. Can't believe you would continue your scumread. If you want I'll target you tomorrow.

and honestly considering the mod the setup being wacky doesn't surprise me in the least, I know him well enough. Two Friendly Neighbors isn't impossible to me. Choof claiming it so early right before replacing out

was

surprising, however.

For all I know, there might be a third party and they chose AJ or Luna. Or mafia has strong power roles. Or the rest of town are VT's.
Aj has the potential for being scum though, considering he revealed me and all. But the claim came out of nowhere.

[TheWorst]

Yeah no I'm not super confident in Skybird, but I'm not gonna lynch his head off first thing D2 either. That was the point of my post. I've had to consider the possibility of two Friendly Neighbors for half of Day 1, I'm over it at this point.

P-Edit: Ok VeeGee confirms Skybird. Curious to Skybird's thoughts.

[TheWorst]

You're an unlimited friendly neighbour, who has no problem with there being ANOTHER one of you AND a town bulletproof doctor?

No way. No way at all. TheWorst and AJ are scum together.

Yeah this guys got it! Channel can be town for me!

Worst not having an issue with it is more icing on the cake.

Idc about shoddy setup speculation (SSS), esp. in a game BBmolla mods who I've known for literally years, on MafiaScum, EpicMafia, and IRC Mafia.
I can easily imagine him making an experimental crazy game like this one seems to be, cause that's what he does.

Plus, I found choof to be town before he left the game, due to the whole reaction test with Banana. The claim was shocking since it was the same as my role and was early in the day, which got me curious. So I questioned Skybird about her opinion on the claim, which CDB found scummy ironically.

Pairing me with AJ is laughable though. I have no clue what AJ is for certain, can't confirm him, and it irks me already that he outed me immediately.

[TheWorst]

Worst – noticed you didn’t place a vote by end of d1. Why?
I noticed you mentioned you were a fan of the Vedith wagon in d1 (and IaI thought Vedith stood out in a wagon, in 681), found FA as scummy by the tone of his posts, and your 580 stated Ban as townread. Any changes to those 3 reads since d1 (Ved/FA/Ban who is now Sal)? If so, why?
1226 – why cat in particular, Worst?

No vote because I didn't agree with the Zakk lynch, yet it seemed inevitable for a lynch by the time I caught up.
I'm always a fan of Vedith wagon, Vedith wagon is a great thing for all of us. His recent play has been typical from what game I know of him (ongoing), if less serious and more jokey. He completely followed the CDB train of thought though, so that has me wondering. FA has mirrored my thoughts recently, which is interesting, so he's a null tell for now. Sal/Ban is still town for the time being, don't agree with his assessment of AJ though. I don't think he's trolling or a VI, he seems legit in what he's saying.

Catboi because he was so dead set on me being scum, I couldn't wait to visit him of course. I only would've hesitated at the thought of catboi being scum, but that's over and done with now so whatever.
Btw I visited AJ since I thought he was town, and he was beginning to suspect me at the end of D1 because he apparently misses Catboi his hero so much. Well, it's funny now to see him forced not to say anything against me.

CDB being on Skybird's scum list is something I'd like to hear more from Skybird than anything else, to know his perspective would be informative since he really hasn't given much so far, his reads and besides calling me and AJ weird. CDB is a loonie himself, considering his reaction to my post being "NO! YOU MUST BE BOTH SCUM! NO WAAAAAAAAY!", but I guess his rashness and subsequent toning down makes him kinda town.

Separating into two posts.

[TheWorst]

Because they are both talking shit.
Using an excuse like "Rest of town are probably VT" to try and justify their roles.
The only people who aren't for lynching them are scum or just blind.

It wasn't an excuse. Look at the actual context if you would please.

For all I know, there might be a third party and they chose AJ or Luna. Or mafia has strong power roles. Or the rest of town are VT's.

I gave multiple possibilities because I simply don't know the setup. The fact that you call it an "excuse" is extremely weak, when they were simply suggestions to explain the roles revealed so far, and it was only a single possibility that you pointed out. There was no "probably" in there.

Two FN's doesn't seem out of the world to me, when they can only confirm themselves as town. They can't find scum, they aren't investigative. BP Doc, yeah it gets iffy there, but considering we have both FN's revealed D2 it's not a biggie.
Skybird and AJ are correct btw in that "it's name, role name, is town".

@Titus

Yes I'm a Friendly Neighbor.
I find it interesting that you take more issue with my claim of Friendly Neighbor, when technically I didn't actually claim it. AJ claimed for me, immediately D2. In your past experience that you mentioned, scum claimed FN while under a D1 wagon, this is a completely different situation so I have no idea why you brought it up. Seems to me you just dislike Friendly Neighbors in general for no good reason, I didn't choose or claim my role.

@AJ

Just to be clear, 2 shot BP Doctor means you have 2 shots on the bulletproof, right? Or is it actually 2 shots on the doc save?

---

It'd be a nice fantastical dream game if two scum out of possibly 3 outed as ridiculous town roles D2 first thing with an NK, with one role being confirmable. Not even mentioning the fact that the supposed scum apparently breadcrumbed their town role before hand (check my ISO). But it's not logical in the slightest. Setup speculation is gonna get us nowhere if that's your conclusion.

[TheWorst]

I gave multiple possibilities

Multiple possibilities of why both are town.
Not the possibility that 1 is lying.

That goes without saying, and I've said it before. I don't immediately trust the other two claims and everything is fine and dandy. I don't even trust AJ who I visited. I offered possibilities if all three claims are true though.

Out of the two, Choof's claim seems more legit which is one of the reasons I didn't CC him/Skybird Day 1. The thing is that Skybird hasn't done much afterwards, especially today when I expected him to step up.
AJ feels a bit weak today comparatively, and his claim was a bit unnecessary. Though considering he's claiming a ridiculous 2 Shot BP Doc, it'd make sense that he'd claim no problem. Role itself is hard to believe, strongman def possible if he's real, which is what I meant by mafia PRs btw. Also mafia roleblocker (which is scary now), rolecop.

@AJ what's your opinion on Skybird/Choof?

[TheWorst]

@TheWorst, Last question on FN. What message would your target receive?

Already said.

Skybird and AJ are correct btw in that it's "name, role name, is town".

[TheWorst]

VeeGee and AJ can be scum completely separate from us two FN claims btw.

So CDB and Sala are left to tell IaI if they're protective roles or not, correct? I want to see where this goes.
Also this is a bit of a prodge, gonna be honest.

[TheWorst]

Quite.

[TheWorst]

Nope. If VeeGee is town, Worst and AJ are scum. The wiki requires FN messages to be the same. They claim different messages. So either they are in opposition, or there's a mod error.

See:

Yes, I am a FN. In my role pm the message that goes to the targetted player is

name, role, is town

. I don't know why VeeGee didn't make that clear in his response.

[TheWorst]

In fact,

Yes. Because I tried to paraphrase it.


And it came out differently than how AJ decided to paraphrase it.

He was more accurate that I was.

Pedit: Skybird, Town Firendly Neighbor, is town.

I honestly have no idea where you're going with this, Titus. I expect better from you.

[TheWorst]

AJ, why did you have the idea to out me?

Why not just absorb me into your townreads and only out me if I was in trouble?
It makes absolutely 0 sense and outing me was only beneficial for scum, which I'm starting to think you are.

[TheWorst]

Yeah but he would have me in his town reads, showing that he did receive the message. I would've gone to one of his scumreads, to a townread, which would show that I did visit him. Not even mentioning the crumbs I left behind. Also I wouldn't reveal myself without having my visits still alive, unless I was being lynched.

I would've been discreetly picking townies under the scum's nose, it was gonna be great. Then AJ comes along...

[TheWorst]

Ohhh I see what you're saying.

WELL no doubt, if AJ was killed last night (impossible since he apparently has a vest, but ok), it wouldn't made me looked good this game. But that's only if I was being lynched and forced to claim.
idk what that has to do with him revealing me immediately though.

[TheWorst]

It makes absolutely 0 sense and outing me was only beneficial for scum, which I'm starting to think you are.

Lol? Because A, there's another FN in the town and B, the doctor is the one saying it and could handle the protections.

Considering that, you can't handle us both supposing we're both real FN's. Or did you not believe in Skybird and wanted to CC him using my role?
You don't seem keen on lynching between FN's, so I don't understand why you would've

wanted

to bring me up in the first place.

You could've left me alone to be never NK'd (most likely, as scum probably saw me as an ML) or even protect me if you thought I was gonna be NK'd.

[TheWorst]

To create chaos and confusion? Though it didn't end up in your favor and attracted a ton of attention to you.
Ehhhh mehhhh idk now. All these claims are crazy.

IaI's info doesn't explain how there was an NK from mafia that night.

[TheWorst]

Yeeeep feeling a bit under the weather recently as well. With the worst minor sickness for mafia play, a headache.

Oh cool FB is here! I'm not liking his entrance right now though.
I'm up for Vedith wagon. VeeGee, ehhh maybe. He literally hasn't been here in 4 days though.

@Mod Prod VeeGee

The claims have my head spinning. BP BG, Vig, BP Doc, and of course me and Skybird as the two FN's...

wat, where do we even go with that? Only the Vig of the first three can confirm itself.

@AJ

do you think the BP BG claim is legit? Do you think you could see the two of you coexisting as roles?
Vice versa goes for

FA_Q

.

[TheWorst]

FB, have you ISO'd Titus?

None at all.
Read last few pages with her pushing me and it seemed like arrogant town thought than scum.


I don't know Titus scum play so theres that.

She seems to like control in her scum play.

If someone FNs

FB or Performer

or Vigs you, I am vote parking them

That's actually something interesting that I found for once.

Anyway, I agree to those pools, Talah.

[TheWorst]

I'm feeling Firebringer right now, my vote would put him at L-1 though.

Don't like his play currently, doesn't seem like the typical FB I know. Then again, I've yet to see him replace into a game, maybe I'm misjudging him.

[TheWorst]

VOTE: Firebringer

I have no idea why people are saying FB is so obviously town. FB's play reminds me of reading his meta as scum.

AJ lynch might catch scum, but he's still a claimed PR and I'm reluctant to lynch someone that I targeted as FN. And it's a flash counterwagon. Same thing goes for the IaI lynch, which actually bothered me with the self-vote, but still.

P-Edit: why.

please god AJ be scum, I'm gonna be so mad if a flash counterwagon results in doc dying D2.

[TheWorst]

Where the hell have you been?

I've had a recent trend of posting right after the hammer.
Literally TheWorst timing. Submitting my post, then bam hammered.

If AJ flips town, I fully expect to die through some sort of shenanigans. Then town will continue like chickens without a head, complaining about the other FN, probably end up lynching IaI or something. All of this setup spec is BS, and Vedith has been the worst of it since the day started.
Can't tell if he's VI or straight-up scummy.

If AJ flips scum, then ok I'm happy and idc if it makes me look scummy since I'm an FN and we lynched a scum.

[TheWorst]

I'm actually legit mad at this right now. And for other reasons.

ahem anyway, yeah I sent it to Luna. I'm unfortunately clear town in here.

[TheWorst]

surprised I lived, honestly. But I suppose scum was more worried by Skybird who I KNEW WAS REAL FN I TOLD YOU GUYS. and he can confirm himself no problem, he's more of a priority it would seem.

[TheWorst]

Also this is exactly why the setup speculation BS was wrong in so many ways, I'll be investigating that later. I suspect at least one or more scum rode that idea train. FB is still super scummy to me, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

[TheWorst]

Why would FA_Q be scum?

[TheWorst]

Why would scum wagon AJ with mislynches available on you and Firebringer? They wouldn't. At least one of you is scum, if not both.

Fallacy.

AJ was built on last-minute momentum.

rip secret alt I'm guessing.

[TheWorst]

How many scum do you guys think was on that AJ wagon?

I'm willing to bet at least one, maybe two.

[TheWorst]

In the rare event I am wrong, tomorrow is lylo. The Worst has hammer.

Oh boy, I'm enthusiastic as hell for that.

Hearing that, I REALLY want to catch scum today 100%. I'll come back to this soon to reread and analyze, maybe my meta read on FB is wrong who knows.

[TheWorst]

BAH! Just BAH.

Good luck town, I believe in you! Never give up!

[TheWorst]

...
Welp.

This is EXACTLY why the Setup Speculation is BS. I knew it would be bad.
Honestly. It was never worth the hassle, especially quick-lynching a BP doc over it, that was a big no-no.
Anyway, congrats to the scum team. Well done. I had a feeling IaI was scum vig (after I died), but town was just all over the place and they took advantage of it easily.

[TheWorst]

Oh yes, very nice setup from BBMolla; and exactly why the setup spec was BS in the end.
All the claiming bothered me too, literally all of the PRs were revealed D2 minus Pignash's scum slot. And I was goddamn right saying the rest would be VTs, because it was.

That being said, good game played by scum. RIP Catboi, we never knew ye.

[TheWorst]

I actually thought Sala was town, idk I guess I wasn't used to Firebringer's meta as an incoming replacement.

[TheWorst]

@mod are all the roles revealed now? I'm curious what the entire setup is

Mafia Vigilante
Mafia Backup Vigilante
Town 1-shot Bulletproof Doctor
Town 2-shot Bulletproof Bodyguard
Town Friendly Neighbor
Town Friendly Neighbor
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie

Town getting caught up in the roleclaims is what killed them.
I told ya'll, BBMolla makes some weird but cool setups, but nah.

The distrust in FN's was a bit confusing as well, why would scum CC FN? Or rather, why would scum claim FN after it was already claimed?
I didn't even claim it myself! Nor did I intend to CC, thought we were both town, yet that idea was outrageous (sneaky CDB escalating the situation). Ah well.