NY 190: Molla's Large Normal

[Luna Fox]

Because you said you didnt want to lynch the Vig, yet you unvoted and that made the Vig the only viable wagon at the time.

[Luna Fox]

Can you honestly read my ISO for this day (Hint all my D2 ISO is on page 2 lol), and say i haven't been trying to figure out what the heck went on during the night? I don't think you can.

[Luna Fox]

(Hint all my D2 ISO is on page 2 lol)

Oh well not anymore since it just reached Page 3.

[Luna Fox]

What are you talking about?

I think you know what i'm talking about.

[Luna Fox]

Because you said you didnt want to lynch the Vig, yet you unvoted and that made the Vig the only viable wagon at the time.

Because the IaI wagon is ass considering we can use that regardless SK/Vig (their objective is the same for the early stages) and I didn't like fire's wagon (as well as Performer was the lead on it?)

There were 2 competing wagons, Fire and IaI, you were voting the Fire wagon (and you had been voting there), but then you go and say "Oh i don't think we should lynch the vig" and unvote the fire wagon making it less likely to go through instead of the IaI wagon, which would undoubtedly ensure IaI gets lynched.

[Luna Fox]

It's a good scum tactic, you unvote the counterwagon to make sure the other wagon goes through without you needing to get your hands dirty.

[Luna Fox]

So real talk what changed from here:

VOTE: Firebringer

This day is going on for too long. We now have the two pools so let's get something to happen.

To here:

I still don't like lynching claimed vig out of policy of it's pretty provable. Unless we're arguing SK.

UNVOTE:

However, I agree firebringer isn't the lynch for today.

and I didn't like fire's wagon (as well as Performer was the lead on it?)

Considering at the time of your unvote the competing wagons were IaI and Fire.

[Luna Fox]

I honestly don't at all......

I suggest you re-read over pyp D3 and D4 then.

[Luna Fox]

What in the hell is PYP.

Pick your poison

[Luna Fox]

Even if they hit town, they hit potential mislynches, it's not that bad.
We will know sooner or later whether IaI's a legit vig tho.

[Luna Fox]

Hence why he was a bad wagon.

Yeah, and you made it more possible for him to be lynched, GO YOU!

[Luna Fox]

We will know sooner or later whether IaI's a legit vig tho.

[Luna Fox]

I still think AJ's flipping Mafia Doc btw.

[Luna Fox]

You still haven't explained why me unvoting was a scum claim because you CAN'T. Nothing behind it is explicitly scum motivated.

I already explained it!

[Luna Fox]

It's a good scum tactic, you unvote the counterwagon to make sure the other wagon goes through without you needing to get your hands dirty.

[Luna Fox]

Neither of these have any logical progression of "aj is scum because"

I already explained it, can't you read?

[Luna Fox]

Or do i have to bold the "without getting your hands dirty" for you to notice.

[Luna Fox]

And as I stated, i'd just pretend I wasn't back for the end of the day?

No? Because most likely the FB wagon would've gone through because ppl wouldn't want to lynch the Vig, as it was going. If Fire is town you'd have gotten your hands dirty.

[Luna Fox]

There's also the possibility of both of you being partners and you wanting to hop off the bus creating again, IaI as the only viable wagon.

[Luna Fox]

Not so easy when you'd become scummier from doing so.

[Luna Fox]

And this is why you're scum, you keep pushing angles of "I'd have done this if i was scum", which justified self-awareness of what you'd do as scum, so you'd try to push it as a reason you're not scum because you're not doing X, while being aware that scum you would do X.

[Luna Fox]

Basically i dont like your "If i was scum i would have done X instead of Y" which if it's something you're aware of, then it makes sense for you as scum to not do X instead of Y.
This has been a running trend all day long actually.

[Luna Fox]

If you're town, then that means my reads suck, and i would gladly eat a ML for it

Maybe i'd be able to take an scum down with me

.
I was going to say something about eating a shoe, then i remembered that firebringer owes me a video of him eating a shoe.

[Luna Fox]

Well you promised!
You said that you'd eat a shoe if i wasn't scum and i wasn't scum.

[Luna Fox]

Or admit you were wrong!

[Luna Fox]

Or admit you were wrong!

id honestly rather eat the shoe.

*waits for video*
And you already admitted to being wrong since you used your Doc Powerz on me (dying coz PGO).

[Luna Fox]

Also did you look at pyp?

[Luna Fox]

TheWorst sent his FN message to me last night.

[Luna Fox]

I have a lot going on in my head right now, but i need to hurry coz i have a lot of errands this morning, i'll talk to you when im back

[Luna Fox]

Ok so first things first, why did Skybird die over TheWorst (AJ flipping town pretty much confirmed TheWorst as town).
Second, is IaI a vig or an SK (we got 2 kills confirmed last night).
Third, what does AJ flipping town Doc mean wrt FAQ's role.

[Luna Fox]

Current interests:
Checking AJ's and Skybird's Scumreads (and townreads).

[Luna Fox]

Ugh nevermind, too exhausted right now, im gonna rest a bit since i have to go to work in 3 hours, will post more after work if im not exhausted from work

[Luna Fox]

VOTE: DGB

[Luna Fox]

Does this mean you think DGB is town?

Uhh... i think you missed this post:

Pushing anyone but FB or DGB s a scumclaim.

[Luna Fox]

DGB did state that Fire was a townie, Fire hasn't flipped yet, so DGB has inside information telling her that or is scum.

[Luna Fox]

I will also eat two shoes if Titus isn't scum.
I have to double down because of that last game with Luna >.>

Everytime someone says they'll eat a shoe they're wrong, Mario said he'd eat a shoe if cards could be duplicate, you said you'd eat a show if i was scum. Both wrong.
(And i almost said i'd eat a shoe if AJ was town, and he was town)

[Luna Fox]

you said you'd eat a show if i wasn't scum.

Fixed that for me.

[Luna Fox]

I rather lynch DGB, i think she's more likely to be scum than fire even if fire's scum. Dunno why you think that FB is the likelier scum if only 1 of the 2 is scum (and if both are scum, then it doesn't matter who is lynched first)

[Luna Fox]

Sal's refusal to fight me

Oh right, i forgot about that
VOTE: FB

[Luna Fox]

btw ftr, im now certain the message only contains the word "town" once.

[Luna Fox]

Titus, I am blaming you for this game if you are town.

Why not blame ME instead

[Luna Fox]

What's your reason for lashing out at Titus like that

[Luna Fox]

Have you considered Tituscum? You should!

I did, that's why im townreading her.

[Luna Fox]

Have you considered Tituscum? You should!

I did, that's why im townreading her.

Convince me.

Everytime i read Titus as scum she flips town and viceversa, when Titus entered the game she was very scummy, so i thought she was town.

[Luna Fox]

Too scummy to be scum?

Uhh, not exactly, it's just that i now reverse read Titus (Because that worked so well on Greater Idea Mafia, but apparently they were playing to their town meta there to townside)

[Luna Fox]

Yeah Vedith's most likely town. I remember him being kind of half-derp half-paying attention on pyp, while he was more engaged on DDU.

[Luna Fox]

This is confusing...

[Luna Fox]

Im getting bored, I wanna see Titus' VCA, if you're gonna do it today, i'd love to see it.
I tried DGB's scumputer algorythm and it failed me, so im not putting much trust on that one.

[Luna Fox]

Who knows who got The Worst's message?

I got it N2.

[Luna Fox]

I was about to ask why you have FAQ as teal town after the doc flipped town, then i remembered that FAQ did protect a townie (or claims he did, but was confirmed by IaI's shot failing)

[Luna Fox]

Or a Mafia vig, but im happy accepting both of them as town for the purposes of PoE for now.

VOTE: Firebringer

IaI should shoot the other if FB flips town, I like that plan.

[Luna Fox]

UNVOTE:
At work don't want early hammer before I do my analysis

[Luna Fox]

Ok so
Im not sure Mafia Vig is considered Normal, so i'll put that on the back burner for now, granted there's 3 possibilities for IaI's role: Town Vigilante, Serial Killer, Werewolf (or some other faction name, but for the sake of simplicity i'll call them werewolves). This puts us at 3 possibilities, 4 townies are dead

6-2-2
6-3-1
7-3

Going with either of the first 2 and being wrong today means we likely lose unless scum cross kills. Even in the later one mislynch + misvig = 4-3 which is LyLo.
BUT if IaI is NOT town and it's one of the first 2, this would put us at 3-2-2 or 3-3-1, in which case town doesnt really control the lynch anymore.
Given this i rather take the risk and lynch IaI which would give us more breathing room and would have a 66% chance of netting scum, and also would make the secondary kill dissapear on 66% of the cases.

On other news FAQ is as much as confirmed town unless this is multiball (and they are both werewolves) so if IaI flips anything but werewolf FAQ would become confirmed town, which gives me even more reason to want to lynch IaI.
Reasoning being FAQ is proven to have protected a townie unless both FAQ and IaI are lying as brought up by Titus previously, and the only way this would happen is if they are a separate mafia faction. On top of that if IaI doesnt flip werewolf FAQ is (possibly?) proven to still have a 1-shot BP which is a great boon for someone that's about to be conf town since scum cant easily kill them and on top of that can interfere with their kill.

--On another note--

I also disagree scum doesn't Bus D1, i came out of a game where scum literally cross bused each other (12p open 3 scum) on Day 1.

VOTE: IaI

[Luna Fox]

Also I guess you could swap them around and call the team IaI and FAQ are in Mafia and the other one werewolf, but the point is the same, granted IaI flipping SK or Town Vig would pretty much make FAQ conftown either way.

[Luna Fox]

Hmm Luna's case on IaI what on earth..?...

Uhh, that's not a case? that's just me conveying why i think it's better to lynch IaI.

[Luna Fox]

Also im wondering where did FB's "Vigs always shoot town" go, he decided to instead say im scum for jumping towards IaI.

[Luna Fox]

You are aware that in all 3 of those instances I'm a danger to the scum team (or other scum team in the case of multi ball)

Which is why i said barring cross kills, im working on worst case scenario where both teams shoot town.

[Luna Fox]

But if this were multiball, don't u think scum would shoot me if I was faking a town vig claim?

Why? Wouldn't it be better for scum to let you help them diminish town numbers before shooting you?

[Luna Fox]

How many nights as he been outed as a vig, and were there more important targets for the scum to NK over him, is the question.

1 Night.
That night they shot Skybird (unless IaI shot skybird then wtf), over confirmed town TheWorst.
Granted nothing this game has made any sense for me.
And if it doesnt make any sense it's probably because our view of the gamestate is wrong.

[Luna Fox]

Im effectively worried about what the correct choice here is...

[Luna Fox]

Luna is apparently town. I don't think scum I just don't recall why she is town again.

Dunno, apparently being universally townread somehow makes me town.

[Luna Fox]

VOTE: Fire
Ok...
I really would've preferred IaI, but I agree fire has a high chance of flipping scum with how the wagon was diverted from him yesterday.

[Luna Fox]

Oh i guess i should've declared intent, ah well.

[Luna Fox]

So you wanted to divert to the vig?....

And you speed hammer before FB has last reads?

I already explained why i preferred the vig in 2943, then i just didnt know where to go, and the game seemed a bit stagnant, i hope DGB gets "vigged" tonight if FB flips town.

[Luna Fox]

I think it's obvious too with how much i tried to lynch Aj yesterday because i thought he was scum fake claiming yet the wagon never moved until DGB popped in, i don't have strong enough ability to go where i feel is better and im condemned to just be a sheep at this point.

[Luna Fox]

FAQ can only be scum if he's on a team with IaI, and the only way that happens is multiball or Mafia Vigi, and i dont see the IaI asking for who blocked his kill and FAQ going "ME! ME!" as being teammates tbqh

[Luna Fox]

However IaI can be scum and FAQ town, realistically, FAQ should be conf town at this point.

[Luna Fox]

Like, how was your day?

Tiring, good thing there's a 3 day weekend coming tho, so there's something to look forward to.

[Luna Fox]

Uh i think it'd have been better to wait for IaI to say what he did before coming up with theories, that being said, i don't disagree, and i'll probably vote there too pending hearing from IaI.

[Luna Fox]

Titus said that IaI should shoot DGB or FB whoever, of the 2 lives, that's not a scum slip.
VOTE: DGB

[Luna Fox]

Is it possible that, with the two bulletproof protective roles, the scum has a extra kill???

If scum has an extra kill then IaI is it, but then that'd require for IaI to not have shot last night or you to be protected by a townie.
I did mention the possibility of SK/Mafia Vig, but everyone just went on and dismissed it.
Occam's razor just says that scum let IaI shoot talah and blocked his shot on you because you're scum.

[Luna Fox]

Conspirancy Theory: It's possible scum blocked IaI's shot to frame DGB today, in which case if DGB flips town a town IaI should shoot Titus tonight (maybe), if both IaI and Titus are scum, gg, your plan worked because i don't see myself seeing DGB town right now.

P-Edit: One shot doesnt work because FAQ blocked his shot on talah N1? they'd need some super planning abilities to have realized that there was a 2nd protective role that wasn't on talah, unless FAQ is scum.

[Luna Fox]

that wasn't on talah

meant to say "was" not "wasn't"

[Luna Fox]

Luna, please humor me, and vote either Titus or IAI.

I actually think IAI is the better bet, because he is more clearly lying.

It's possible as a Mafia Vig he used his shot on the BP bodyguard. Or, maybe the bodyguard protected me, but I doubt it. I don't even remember who claimed BG. Do you?

FAQ Claimed BG.
And why should I humor you when i currently think you're scum and this is most likely MyLo? (5v3 if 3 scum)

[Luna Fox]

Scum currently needs 2 townie votes on town to win unless it's 2 scum instead of 3 (which i doubt), your "humor me and vote this" looks manipulative.

[Luna Fox]

Can't you wait for the BG to declare his target?

Sure i can wait for that
UNVOTE:
I'm not gonna vote who you want me to vote i'll just keep my vote nowhere in the meantime.

[Luna Fox]

Can't you notice Titus's shit cases yesterday, setting up some false dilemma that one of Firebringer and I had to be scum so that she could line up the other one for the next day's lynch?

While i can see this as a good point for scum Titus, that doesn't explain IaI's proven to be a Vig or SK, is Mafia Vig normal?
What im bothered about is FAQ not protecting the FN, and i doubt he protected you when he was agreeing with Titus yesterday (I think?) about FB scum and possibly you scum, disagree? I'll still wait for his answer but im not sure if it'll change my PoV.

[Luna Fox]

@Luna, I have an answer of that. Pretty common sense BTW. Not concerned about FAQ without IAI being scum.

Well yeah it's pretty possible for all of you 3 to be scum, but im gonna wait for FAQ's protect target, if it's not DGB then im turbo lynching DGB today.
Also im pretty sure if i was scum and DGB town, DGB wouldn't be alive, which reminds me... why has DGB not booted her scumputer yet.

[Luna Fox]

Yeah IaI admits to have vigged DGB but DGB didn't die, while IaI's shot on Talah went through fine N2.
IaI's supposed to be 2-shot BP too.

[Luna Fox]

I meant FAQ not IaI, sorry

[Luna Fox]

it doesnt make sense for FAQ!Scum and IaI!Town to have the events of D2

[Luna Fox]

For some reason it posted before i finished...

To have the events of D2 that happened, since FAQ blocked a kill on a Townie.

[Luna Fox]

Vedith the fact here is that IaI is a town vig, they didnt block his shot on talah, but they blocked his shot on DGB. And yes it was obvious that IaI was shooting DGB...

[Luna Fox]

But it's not confirmed that there was even a shot...
We only have 1 confirmed shot from IaI and that was on Talah.
What is he isn't a BG but a RB for scum?

While technically town has a lot of roleblockable roles, it requires scum to know who to target with their roleblocker, and if scum has a roleblocker why didnt they roleblock Skybird N1?

[Luna Fox]

Vedith the fact here is that IaI is a town vig, they didnt block his shot on talah, but they blocked his shot on DGB. And yes it was obvious that IaI was shooting DGB...

You are not considering that IAI may be a limited-shot Mafia vig, maybe he can't shoot anymore, and he didn't even shoot last night.

I mean,

I know

he didn't, I am phrasing it from your perspective.

Yeah i know that Town!You would know this, but Scum!You would know the opposite and could be saying the same thing, right now gut tells me that you are scum via a kill on talah working and then a kill on you not working.

[Luna Fox]

btw there should be guaranteed at least 1 scum among Titus, IaI and DGB.

Here are all the possible scenarios in my head:

DGB scum was shot but blocked. Simplest Explanation, which implies DGB being scum.
Titus and IaI scum didn't shoot and are framing DGB Town. This would require IaI to be a Mafia Vig.
Titus and IaI scum shot TheWorst and FAQ, FAQ's kill was blocked by it's last BP shot and are trying to frame DGB Town.
Titus is scum and redirected IaI to FAQ or to himself the kill was still blocked and is trying to frame DGB. (Not very likely considering Skybird never mentioned redirection which they could've used N1).

Known Facts:
DGB redirected a lynch from Firebringer (VT) to Aj (Town 1-shot BP Doctor).
IaI shot talah N2 and his kill was blocked by IaI N1, his kill is missing N3.

Just by facts alone IaI and FAQ are townier than DGB. What has DGB done to begin with?, IaI did some sort of rolefishing D2 tho... hmm....

[Luna Fox]

Scum haven't been paying attention fully, that's all I can say.

this would point towards DGB!Scum than Titus!Scum since Titus has been paying a lot of attention to the game.

[Luna Fox]

Luna, before you voted FB (Still, wtf?!), you had him as town, right?

Titus VCA convinced me.

Also iirc Titus had stated that she would lynch IaI if he shot town again yesterday, wouldn't this point towards IaI being town regardless?

[Luna Fox]

That is not a fact...
That is FAQ saying that he blocked the shot.

Well yes, but then the shot would have gone missing N1 since it worked N2, so we have to assume that it was blocked by FAQ.

[Luna Fox]

Okay, 3 names that haven't been focused in the game - Go.

I can come up with You and DGB, CDB has been away, TheWorst hadn't been paying attention either but he's dead and conf town, Performer too (Speaking of, where is he?)

Inb4 DGB+CDB replacement that i forgot name+Performer.

[Luna Fox]

Dont you think Skybird kill is more likely to come from DGB!Scum? Specially with the scumteam i came up with...
If you think about it, Skybird wasn't confirmed yet for the town, DGB had barely read the game, CDB was MIA and Performer doesnt pay much attention, but Skybird had targeted DGB's Predecessor, ergo from DGB's PoV Skybird was conf town.

[Luna Fox]

Luna - As BG, would you protect confirmed town or someone who could be a SK (Or even scum)?

I wouldn't always protect confirmed town, but it depends a lot on the player that is actually confirmed town.

[Luna Fox]

All this "i'll self vote" "i'll self vote" "i'll self vote" is meh, if you're town that's playing against your win condition doubly so if you think a town lynch will result in a game loss, i don't buy your AtE
VOTE: DGB

[Luna Fox]

All this "i'll self vote" "i'll self vote" "i'll self vote" is meh, if you're town that's playing against your win condition doubly so if you think a town lynch will result in a game loss, i don't buy your AtE
VOTE: DGB

You don't seem to mind town losing.

If you're town, you're the one who doesn't seem to mind town losing, why would you self-hammer as town if you did?

[Luna Fox]

All i've seen DGB is complain that town already lost because scum is doing X or Y, and her game solving is basically saying her aggresors are scum (Titus, IaI, Me), while the assumption of her being town is a reasonable one to make from her PoV regardless of alignment, she asks us to assume she's town when doing analysis, but apparently she can't see town you when analysing...

[Luna Fox]

You're vanilla and the scum says they vigged you but you survived, so you're scum. What do YOU do??? Go ahead, show me how to play mafia.

The first thing that would pop in my head would be frame job.

[Luna Fox]

Interesting, i never expected a 2 player scumteam, yeah my reads were horrible this game. And the setup was like lolwhat.... (yeah totally blaming the setup instead of my bad scumhunting skillz)

[Luna Fox]

It's almost as if the twin protectives and twin FNs were designed specifically to mislead town. Also why no town investigatives D: