NY 188: Delicious Mafia II (Post-game chatter)

[Lapsa]

hi pricks

VOTE: Shinobi

[Lapsa]

Haha, hey Lapsa.
Please be town. c:

I don't bite, and will not rip your head off unless I sense you're being deceitful. From a cost-benefit analysis, you have nothing to lose if you're Town, because as Town you should have absolutely no reason to lie to me about anything in this game. Some have told me I have a very sharp sense of perception, and can usually discern traits and patterns in the behaviors of others. You have literally nothing to fear if Town, and everything to fear if Scum, so, by all means, please do engage with me.

[Lapsa]

RVS is RVS.

Its too early to say ika is town, but I feel good about you.

Wolfie seems confscum

VOTE: Salamence20

[Lapsa]

Lapsa, if Wolfie is confscum why vote someone else?

Hi Wolfie!

Maybe they are scum! So they voted for the towniest person!!!

because I find policy speedlynch unlikely to happen

[Lapsa]

Not if you believe it won't! If you believe hard enough and dig deep enough, you will find the magic to get Wolfie lynched!

VOTE: Wolfie

I presume you ain't magic

[Lapsa]

FOS Lapsa. Post 36 may be the longest one I've ever seen him make.

and I daresay the ability to adapt to anything

[Lapsa]

Salamence is really pushing for a random lynch, and not giving any solid reason for the lynch other than "it helps town".

And?

that's kind a vibe I got from #27

UNVOTE:

[Lapsa]

VOTE: Nosferatu

[Lapsa]

UNVOTE:

[Lapsa]

T S O - #26 and #27. wouldn't call that "almost immediately"

[Lapsa]

Good pagetop.

good luck at faking mental breakdown for the rest of the game

[Lapsa]

de ja voodoo

[Lapsa]

I've never seen it happen. Show me?

link

[Lapsa]

SolverWolfie is still probably confscum

VOTE: SilverWolf

[Lapsa]

wat

topkek

[Lapsa]

I'm running out of options - can't make it more obvious that I don't really scumread Wolfie.
already mentioned - #27 is where fun originates

UNVOTE:

Anna's response seemed most town, TSO sounds scum. Wake seems just lazy and Shinobi is town.
wat wat on Nosfer

@ika did you notice that Nanite got replaced by red?

[Lapsa]

I would call Wake town unless Nos flips scum. At that point I would investigate things.

what's the idea here? why do you think Wake and Nos could be associates?

[Lapsa]

its a scum tacic used to call a scum buddy scum but be able to lyncha a townie first

@ika ain't that naive scum tactic?

[Lapsa]

its a scum tacic used to call a scum buddy scum but be able to lyncha a townie first

@ika ain't that naive scum tactic?

depends how how naive others are to said tactic

@ika are you naive enough?

[Lapsa]

@ika will Mahonsters be naive enough to lynch Nosfer?

[Lapsa]

welcome back, Wolfie

VOTE: T S O

[Lapsa]

Whilst I do see what you are saying, it starves us of information going into the night, into what roles can use on over the night. I.E who people suspect for cop roles to investigate, who is the pro town player for doctor to protect, etc etc. And if we want a quick lynch, we could be rush lynching a town PR.

@Kop shit entrance. any reads?

[Lapsa]

His scumread of me magically appeared out of nowhere in response to this, and he certainly hasn't explained it.

T S O - #26 and #27. wouldn't call that "almost immediately"

no discounts for you, Mr Thick Skull

I haven't finished reading through yet. Will post my thoughts once I have fully caught up.

have you caught up?

[Lapsa]

Shinobi; you might think that my case on Lapsa is weak, which is somewhat true, but #377 is the shittiest attempt at a rebuttal ever. He literally cannot justify his thought processes multiple times. Even if he's just atrociously bad, his thoughts should still be clear in his head and explainable. That he can't do it speaks extremely poorly towards his alignment.

hell yeah it's atrociously bad and unexplainable. I find it extremely poor that you can't spot that tiny imitation of Sala's play

unexplained my justifications repeatedly yet you still can't figure out rocket science hence vote on you

[Lapsa]

Any chance you'd be my hero and throw your vote on Grey while you catch up?

wtf is that shit supposed to be?

[Lapsa]

I advise re-writing this in an attempt to make it vaguely legible.

It's basic English. Take a picture.

But seriously, I have no interest in wasting my time attempting to decipher the meaning of what exactly "unexplaining justifications" is.

fatal argumentation. taking picture

[Lapsa]

Lapsa——— What

think you

do you think

of TSO's insistence in voting for GrayFoxxxx?

has to be because of my vote on him. postern omgus

or scum

Spoiler: reasoning has been vaguely legible thus far

UNVOTE:
VOTE: TSO

This is scum.

kill it with fire

People can do what they want, but I'd really rather it be something productive. Hint: vote Grey.

Any chance you'd be my hero and throw your vote on Grey while you catch up?

[Lapsa]

I

[Lapsa]

am

[Lapsa]

talking

[Lapsa]

a

[Lapsa]

lot

[Lapsa]

I don't know. I do have slight gut disturbances when it comes to Silverwolf, Shinobi, ika, and TSO.

Anyone wanna compare and contrast that with me? Engage me come on now.

slight townread on Shinobi here

[Lapsa]

In the post of yours I am quoting, not once did you respond with your own thoughts on why TSO is insisting grayfoxx should be lynched.

.

[Lapsa]

Lapsa vote gray with me.

so be it

VOTE: grayfoxxxx

and I'm not scum

[Lapsa]

welcome, froggy frog

[Lapsa]

@Kop shit entrance. any reads?

I haven't finished reading through yet. Will post my thoughts once I have fully caught up.

have you caught up?

VOTE: Kop

^ 0 votes, 0 reads

[Lapsa]

food queue << grilled pike

[Lapsa]

@Spiffeh you accuse annacat for thievery yet you parrot my case on Kop. Wake would be proud

[Lapsa]

So no I didn't just parrot your case nice try!!!

shit entrance

then you ain't reading game which is worse

What do you think of Annadog?

she is my scum buddy and I'm defending her from you

[Lapsa]

osu <3

[Lapsa]

Yeah, if someone else votes Grayfoxxxx, keep in mind that would put him to L-2 and ika and boon can finish him off. Make sure you are ready for the day to end if you decide to vote him.

Yeah, if someone else votes Grayfoxxxx, keep in mind that would put him to L-1 and ika can finish him off. Make sure you are ready for the day to end if you decide to vote him.

VOTE: Grayfoxxxx

[Lapsa]

What's the reasoning behind this post Lapsa?

SolverWolfie was wrong, boon had already voted for GrayFoxxxx

[Lapsa]

-Lapsa's recent vote on the Gray wagon was absolute shit and he's done nothing but troll

explain me how it's absolute shit

[Lapsa]

seems to imply singleball

@Nosferatu I'm not in a neighborhood

[Lapsa]

Actually Lapsa, I don't care anymore. I have lost all interest in this game.

I find your scumread on me unfair. my vote on GrayFoxxxx did same thing yours were supposed to do

I myself am ok with lynching GrayFoxxxx, TOS thinks I'm reluctant to vote, Shinobi asks me to and you scumread me for doing so.
when texdog switches to GrayFoxxxx - there's nothing wrong with that one.
when you vote GrayFoxxxx despite that he's not on your #887 list - there's nothing wrong with that one.

and then everyone tells me I'm the one who's not cooperating

UNVOTE:

[Lapsa]

Why would a Mafia PT be called the Penthouse, and why would a claimed Town PR be allowed to ask questions there through the Mod?

You know, bickering only hurts Town.

[Lapsa]

much cooperate, very reluctant

VOTE: wake

[Lapsa]

That makes me, GrayFoxxxx, Silver (and like one more I think I missed) not in a neighborhood so far.

you missed me and Nosferatu

[Lapsa]

UNVOTE:

Shinobi, who should I vote for?

[Lapsa]

It's actually really bothering me how many times you have said this.

wake also is very busy busy busy. and has little time and has little time and has time constraints

doesn't bother me much though

[Lapsa]

VOTE: GrayFoxxxx

[Lapsa]

Lapsa, any reason for that vote?

no

[Lapsa]

VOTE: Lapsa

And before you ask for a reason, anyone, it's because of posts like 1373.

how unfair. I didn't vote for you

[Lapsa]

food queue << mashed potatoes

[Lapsa]

UNVOTE:

[Lapsa]

VOTE: Kop

[Lapsa]

I'm not a godfather. yet

[Lapsa]

food queue << mashed potatoes

[Lapsa]

Shinobi I suspect to a lesser extent than SW, and SW to a lesser extent than TSO

@Wake, let's hit SolverWolfie! she ain't participating in game, SwampCat is already on hunt and TSO ain't rolling anyway

VOTE: SilverWolf

[Lapsa]

I'm looking at texcat.

she's a hardcore lurker. up to par with grands like Ika and Boonskies

[Lapsa]

Regardless of her alignment, Silverwolf has been contributing.

Her being an object of suspicion doesn't mean I'll lap up anything negative said about her, especially if they're untrue.

SolverWolfie is safe on my guard!

[Lapsa]

I don't recall Town-Boonskiies being a lurker in my Freshwater Frenzy LN, with 353 posts.

neither do i

[Lapsa]

OFF OFF BIG LETTERS OFF

[Lapsa]

almost forgot...

UNVOTE: confscum SolverWolfie

random reads:

not really fan of lynching Bake neither TSO.
I like magical annacat but this one leaves me guessing:

"I don't wanna let everyone know my thoughts, just a select few and only at night so if I do something stupid and get scumread for it, I can have time to talk it out/do something about the people scumreading me!"

Toa6er has become uncanningly unjumpy lately. lost on CreedBringer.
and a bunch of happy lurkers (Ika, you are my hero)

~ viable lynch pool:

SwampCat, Boonskiies, Kop, GrayFoxxxx

VOTE: GrayFoxxxx

[Lapsa]

Meh, maybe TSO is right and gray is just mafia.

Shinobi vote gray with me.

[Lapsa]

So yeah. I wanna say:
I am a

role cop

.
I checked TSO, He is not aligned with town.

Time to lynch him.
VOTE: TSO

^ I find this strange

A Role Cop is an investigative role that receives the role name of its target. In Normal games, this is "Cop", "Doctor", "Roleblocker, and so forth.

There is no indication of the target's alignment

; if a Mafia Goon is investigated, they return "Vanilla", although a Godfather will return "Godfather".

is TSO godfather? perhaps serial killer?

[Lapsa]

nice waiting, SolverWolfie

VOTE: TSO

[Lapsa]

I'm still hoodless T_T

[Lapsa]

why you won't claim

he did claim

[Lapsa]

just noticed that underneath TSO's name there's "Survivor"

[Lapsa]

I also noticed this and had a quiet chuckle.

we are like best friends now

[Lapsa]

And we only have TSO's claim that he is SK. He could still obviously be scum, who tried claiming Survivor and is now trying to claim SK.

quoting Wake - that would be collateral damage for town

[Lapsa]

(and he's been wrong once assuming he shot wake)

bad town guidance

VOTE: redFF

TSO's "scumhunting" is all smokes and mirrors.
that gives slight towncred for texdog and null for his consequent "reads"

and I disliked SwampCat`s reaction.
felt more like helping TSO materializing his SK claim than figuring it out (afaik she ain't in same hood)

not a fan of leaving TSO alive though.
haven't ever seen SK leashing in action, unaware of risks

[Lapsa]

Does it matter what it is as long as it's right?

sure, Roosevelt

[Lapsa]

Fantastic.

Why are you voting red? I don't disagree with the vote, but I doubt we share the same reasons for wanting it.

TSO's "scumhunting" is all smokes and mirrors.

talk to the hand

[Lapsa]

thought train:

Also, I'm confused. TSO is claimed survivor but also has NK ability? What? Somebody please tell me.

Yes, when there are already four dead town and no scum dead, I plan to advance

my SK win condition

by shooting more town.

You're scum, yes?

tso not fully revealing his role is muddying up the thread with speculation

he claimed SK in our neighborhood

Speaking of which, red's play in our neighbourhood makes zero sense. He asks what I really am, I claim, I tell him not to say it in the thread, I tell him I'll likely fullclaim later in hood, he says it'll be hard to convince town not to lynch me, I explain why it makes sense for town to keep me alive because my WC right now involves killing scum,

and then he reveals the claim

? It's like he decided that he as scum wasn't going to profit from me being alive so hoped that by revealing it he could push through my lynch.

It doesn't make sense that he asks me how I'll convince town to keep me alive after the claim. There was no reason for him to do that as town - either he revealed it immediately, or he didn't reveal it, but I just hate the way he tried to feel me out about what my intentions were. It doesn't makes sense for him to reveal after that as town.

reveals the claim?

[Lapsa]

and before that ofc:

So? Are you thinking that TSO is SK? I still think we need to lynch him. SK's tend to be more kill more town than scum, don't they?

day's gonna be fun ^ㅂ^

[Lapsa]

lol @lapsa, you vote me even though you don't think we should leave tso alive?

true

[Lapsa]

What does he have to lose from being leashed?

[Lapsa]

Even if you believe that TSO is SK, what makes you think that scum will kill him? They won't.

Refuting your points is so wearying.

found this one interesting on annadog's link:

And as I said, I can't imagine myself as scum ever night shooting at an SK.
A) they usually have a BP, or means to protect themselves (so I'm not wasting a shot so early on)
B) If I'm controlling their shot, sweeeeet.
C) Eventually the town has to turn and lynch them, so badabing badaboom

seems that mostly people do prefer lynching. especially night SK`s

anyway - worth reading that thread

[Lapsa]

@Wolfie, your slave ain't behaving. consider reducing his food rations

[Lapsa]

Scum will want him lynched today, there is no question about it.

well, if there's one thing I have learned from Refraction game is that in multiball both sides prefer taking down majority of town before hitting each other.
gaining an advantage over other anti-town faction is secondary objective so to speak.
and with scum+sk that's given

[Lapsa]

I can't get anything done if I constantly have to rephrase answers that no-one has been able to find fault with yet.

don't betray the truth T_T

[Lapsa]

One thing I don't want is the whole day to devolve into leash or lynch debate because that just clogs up the game and makes it unplayable. So I'll stop now. Town is going to do what it's going to do here. I think leash gives us an advantage that we desperately need. If someone can give me a great reason why it would do more harm than good, then go ahead and lynch him and I won't object.

inevitable. you can't just mute him. and this beautiful nicotine-withdrawal-like presence will accompany town for quite awhile

Now you definitely need all hands on board. WHich this game was testament to showing the difficulty in that.
I think we went on for nearly 50 pages of useless debate on whether to lynch the SK or leesh.
A Total blackhole in the grand scheme of the game.

that's the reason I wrote:

day's gonna be fun ^ㅂ^

[Lapsa]

"He'll say he got roleblocked and not kill" -

this removes the scum roleblock from the equation

,
meaning someone like Firebringer will actually get results.

flawless logic ^ㅂ^

anyway - I'm done

[Lapsa]

But this isn't multiball. It's SK who's main objective is to kill scum. If he shots the way we don't want him to or doesn't shoot who we say, he dies.

@Wolfie, you are mixing it up. my point was that scum ain't that much interested in killing/lynching SK. in response to:

Scum will want him lynched today, there is no question about it.

ain't talking about SK following orders or not

[Lapsa]

@lapsa, what exactly is bad town guidance? that looks like the reason for your vote, could you explain more?
also states he's not a fan of leaving TSO alive, yet votes me, starting a counter wagon?

you posted as if TSO was directed N1 by town:

if he's sk he is likely to kill another town player tonight, there are more town players than scum players (and he's been wrong once assuming he shot wake)

no, it's not. I'm just sheeping SilverWolf. I feel information deprived being hoodless.

UNVOTE:

[Lapsa]

Also I don't know if this has crossed your mind at all, but scum would probably want what is essentially a town-vig gone.

#2283

[Lapsa]

you people are so talkative

thank you, SwampCat

[Lapsa]

VOTE: goodmorning

[Lapsa]

check SW

@Shin

it's "lets turbolynch someone" slot

end of day1 plays were strange. but that reminds me how off Titus feels when replacing in

I've lurked her game before. same game which happens to be first mafiascum game for SilverWolf.
she was PR there iirc. plays seem familiar but I doubt she's PR again

I think that TSO is groupscum and SwampCat helped to make SK claim plausible

I also find it harder to trust SilverWolf for the very same reason.
Wake wagon grew fair amount after mentioning that SilverWolf's town alignment ain't definitive.
especially now after she flip-flopped her vote back to TSO and then to redFF

I don't really understand push on Mahonster

Can you talk to me about your vote and your read on me?

Eventually.

there's now an update regarding this topic which seems equally shit to me:

I've been busy with school stuff, so I'm trying to work up the momentum to read the pages I haven't read all in one go so I can stop thinking about it.

here's a new thing I'm puzzled about:

I've mostly changed my mind on you because of your claim, which would make reasonable sense from Town or a Maf Traitor but not from groupscum probably.
I'm discounting the Traitor atm because it's not very likely.
Though that would be one hell of a coincidence.

mafia traitor hood inspector?! o_0

being fairly inactive, whining about talkativeness yet writing shit she finds highly unlikely herself seems off

also - SwampCat still sits on "fuck me - I haven't read game yet" excuse.
I learned it hard way that town should keep mouth shut when behind

[Lapsa]

Lapsa, is GM SwampCat? I'm guessing that is the case since you are quoting her.

Aero is SwampCat

[Lapsa]

Aero is the mod, not a player. So how can Aero sit on a "haven't read the game" excuse not to vote?

Aero is omnipotent. he can use excuse of reading game by not reading his excuses

[Lapsa]

Because more people support the leash now than they did then

[Lapsa]

@SwampCat

@Lapsa: Not sure you've noticed, but catching up is difficult when the game grows as quickly as this one.

by living in past you are just as toxic as TSO

Spoiler: context

Hot damn.

4 town bites the dust already. Wow that's bad.

Does this mean multiball for sure? Sk?

And that neighborhood wipe was possibly a really bad play. I'll look at that later.

We were all bouncing ideas off each other before Boon/Spiff died. All three of us decided that we wanted to lynch Kop/Mahonster today.

If I had to vig someone right now it would probably be Mahonster. Curious gut feeling.

What I don't understand is, if you are what you're implying you are, why you won't claim.

Vote: Mahon

you claim not having read the game and you ain't in any hood afaik

why are you voting Mahonster?

[Lapsa]

depeneds on ohterwords

[Lapsa]

Don't worry too much about it. Some things are a lot more important than Mafia.

[Lapsa]

THERE ISN'T.

something I can agree upon

[Lapsa]

6 town bites the dust already. Wow that's bad.

VOTE: TSO

[Lapsa]

food queue << [smoked cheese wheel, black beer, salted pistachios]

[Lapsa]

you surely are quite magical, annadog

[Lapsa]

@SwampCat, have you read thread yet?

[Lapsa]

toplol

it's a classic scumtell

And when you know the pattern you know the survivor

[Lapsa]

Scum hoping for godfather hit?

you think there is two of them?

[Lapsa]

Two godfathers? Same team or different?

each

[Lapsa]

and there are 7 more boring pages in the middle.
shame it's not unlocked permanently

[Lapsa]

Does anyone have questions?

Mahonster had one. seems impossible to you?

[Lapsa]

both of you are dead, can you retroactively shut the fuck up?

deja voodoo food queue << cranberry ice cream

[Lapsa]

That was the question I said was stupid, of course 1 II per team isn't impossible.

sorry. assumed that you meant question about superpowers.
somehow Ika never hammered before boonskies

[Lapsa]

Org why the quick hammer before people could tall about it?

It's midnight, Cinderella

[Lapsa]

So do you turn into a pumpkin?

annacat vote ozgin with me.

VOTE: Ozgin

[Lapsa]

@Lapsa - who do you think is werewolf and who do you think is mafia?

tex flip and SwampCat hints were interesting

and would tex have gotten the doc power or the even-night vig?
i'm assuming doc.

read that as an idea that tex backup role must have been inherited from scumhit.
according to wiki - that's mod's choice

speaking of N1, this seems correct:

mafhit wake (TSOvWake fight)
wolfhit spiffeh (mafhit taken, lurking and quickhammering vs towny spiffeh)
vighit boonskies

seems like crucial entry point when trying to sort out wolves and mafs

it's also interesting because of Firebringer's result of scum Ozgin.
boonskies death becomes unexplained

and that's as far as i can get. hoods have made this game for me unenjoyable

like... what da fuck is this shit?!

Nosferatu, I have reasons to believe Kop is town. I don't want to disclose them now though.

You know whose slot has received one single vote the entire game, and that in RVS? Frogger

Wake...I don't think Anna is scum. Do I think she's being anti-town? Yes.

...and many more

[Lapsa]

Everyone is magical and if we let our powers combine, we can get them lynched!

appareantly not

UNVOTE:

[Lapsa]

I'm not in a hood. my quote there is me pointing out to Quar that his argument against readslists is really stupid.

me neither. speaking about fact itself. and i blame hoods

frogs play differs a lot from refraction game. he is inactive in comparison

Toa6er has become uncanningly unjumpy lately

this is the only response i ever got:

I should throw out a bunch of random reads just to help scum. They seem to care about this game more than town.

[Lapsa]

yeah, Firebringer, where's your avatar?

speedlynching in a large normal is effective and optimal for town

VOTE: Ozgin

[Lapsa]

has to be diamond encrusted avatar. certainly has nothing to do with php

[Lapsa]

has to be diamond encrusted avatar. certainly has nothing to do with php

What are you talking about?

about necessity for town to talk and think together

[Lapsa]

If me, then I think I know who Ozgin allies are.

interesting setup twist

[Lapsa]

SwampCat, what do you think of Oz death note?

[Lapsa]

Any specific part?

no

[Lapsa]

Any specific part?

no

Then what was the point?

to learn what you think about Oz death note

[Lapsa]

Well the only person who isn't a neighbor and who is still alive is lapsa afaik and he doesn't seem to be part of a neighbourhood.

i'm barely part of this game. still hoodless

[Lapsa]

Lets talk about something people.

any specific part of something?

[Lapsa]

The fact that Mahon is actually trying to generate discussion instead of letting the game die quietly should show that he is most probably town.

he openly considers himself a lynchbait

[Lapsa]

I think this is MyLo, ugh.

I'm comfortable with this VOTE: Kop

seems rushed

That doesn't matter much now anyway, because if Sky is scum, she's scum (I still think she's town, but I'm getting paranoia about her now).

i find it unlikely that SilverWolf would flip scum

@Skybird what's the idea of secrecy?

[Lapsa]

UNVOTE: Fro99er
VOTE: Kop

@Mahonster did you just sheep your scumread?

[Lapsa]

i find it unlikely that SilverWolf would flip scum

What?

Kop is male. seems that you meant 'If Sky is scum then Sky is scum'

[Lapsa]

Lapsa looks ready too pounce on myself, nos, mah, and sky with those posts. But not Kop.

Noted.

my apologies. gone back lurking

[Lapsa]

He was only my scum read because Nos, I forgot to unvote.

because Nos what?

[Lapsa]

Lapsa no thoughts on my post?

no

[Lapsa]

post 2930, later Nos retracted that.

Oz was bussing Fro99er on D1...

VOTE: Fro99er

[Lapsa]

@Kop why you didn't hood anyone on N4?

[Lapsa]

@Kop what's the idea of secrecy?

[Lapsa]

food queue << solyanka

[Lapsa]

Mahonster vote Frogger with me.

[Lapsa]

[Lapsa]

BUT if it's 1-2-5, and it probably is, we can't lynch the last Mafia or we lose.
We need to aim Wolf today and hope for crosskills.

Actually, that's not quite right, but lynching the last Maf would put us in MyLo with no hope of crosskills.

Then again, if we lynch Wolf and Scum both kill Town then we're at 1-2-3 and absolutely fucked.

sounds so familiar to Refraction game. //damn you, Thor :E
i guess the most beautiful part of multi-ball is that it tends to keep tension alive till the very end

scenario #1
mislynch
result: town insta gg

scenario #2
maf lynch
result: 2-5 -> day6 2-4
decent chances to win. less polluted discussions yet idea of crosskill is history and town cannot afford mislynch

scenario #3
Wolfie lynch
result: 1-1-5
3.1 day6 5 town insta gg (unlikely. town would be too much of a threat for scum in 1 vs 4)

3.2 day6 1-1-3
3.3 day6 1-1-4 (scum double targeting)

afaik mutual scum faction victory ain't possible (@Aero amiright?)
meaning - town can afford no-lynch or even mislynch.
doing so town would forcefully trigger scum chicken-run

[Lapsa]

let's get down to business

UNVOTE:



@Kop which pair of players are remaining wolves?

[Lapsa]

@Aero amiright?

[Lapsa]

A join scum victory is only possible if there is a situation where it is draw.
Two scum remaining, one from each faction.
No majority possible, they crosskill each other for everyone dies.
Something like that would be a joint scum win, as it is not a draw since town would lose.

ugh... that's kind an important right now.
and you sound really vague

hunting 2 wolves would be much easier than loner maf.
and benefits for doing so are appealing

either there is [win, draw, loss] or [win, loss]

i don't see states [win, win / draw, loss] to be consistent with game rules

specifically:

3) Play to your faction's win condition, as long as you do not break any game or site rules in doing so.

let me try it once more:

would it be playing against the win condition for scum to target remaining town in 1-1-1 night?

[Lapsa]

Any of the factions can win, and the other factions lose.
If there is a situation where there is a draw between two factions, but a third faction loses, I would call that a joint win between those two factions.

in 1-1-1 there are 3 factions and one of them is town.
town-scum 1-1 having "joint win" makes even less sense

If both scum target town, it would start the day with both scum alive, and

it is a joint win

, as

it is not possible for either faction to win at that point (draw)

, but town lost.

Who scum should target is based on who they think will be targeted by the other faction. As long as you are trying to win(even if it is a mistake) you are playing to your win condition.

problem is that there's no reason for scum to target opposing scum faction if targeting town is "joint-draw-win-but-town-lost-yay"

i'm not talking about human interaction. there's no thinking right or wrong. it's just plain stupid 2+2 math and definition of game rules

either "joint win" is same as "win" (kind a like jester getting lynched) and scum have no incentive to crossfire (ain't talking about blundering),
or it's a draw (town loses) and scum must try to avoid "joint win" to their best ability because not doing so would be playing against win condition

take chess game for example. draws are common.
usually one player makes a blunder, loses significant material, realizes there's no chance to win and forces a draw.
since it's "best of x matches", every player gets a point and game continues.
in this case - draw is a true draw. neither player gains an advantage

in mafia game - there's no continuity. every match is singular.
in given 1-1-1 situation - there is a chance to win for all involved factions.
with "joint win same as win" game rules scum teams gain an edge since their win condition can be achieved in additional way

as for town - it matters little which scum team wins since town is losing anyway.
and given edge of additional win path could be ignored - possibly that's even taken into account during setup balancing

-------------------> but that's not the point of my question <-------------------

town has to know

right now

if it's better trying to avoid such a situation or not.
and that can and must be answered by properly understanding game rules

is this "joint win" valued same as "win" or it's a true draw and neither scum wins the game?

despite that it's against my principles to replace out - poorly defined game rules happens to be an exception

got real life for that kind of ambiguity

[Lapsa]

What's the general consensus on whether we should roleclaim or not?

it's pointless

[Lapsa]

may I inquire how so?

yes

[Lapsa]

how so?

@Nos: How do you envision a massclaim being anything but useless?

i couldn't. that's how so

my best try was something about existence of Commonroom town neighborizer but that also seemingly leads nowhere

with role in mind, finding scum might be easier

fill slots in question with town neighbours/vanilla. that should help

[Lapsa]

ty, Aero

[Lapsa]

froggor, that's just faulty argument

you can't argue that scum neighborizer is of great utility cause that's like insta-conftown yet use that as a scumtell

that just proves uselessness

[Lapsa]

matters little if you use this 'neighborizer free towncred' argument as a scumtell for balancing setup or scumreading someone in particular.
it seems you ain't reading

who do you think is werewolf, who do you think is mafia?

yes

[Lapsa]

you surely are quite magical, Fro99er

[Lapsa]

you are welcome

[Lapsa]

you have ignored my question

[Lapsa]

I'm willing to sheep Frogger right now.

+1

VOTE: goodmorning

[Lapsa]

bah

food queue << methanol

[Lapsa]

woot! ^_^

[Lapsa]

Also, LOL at wolves thinking Anna was the last Maf and Fro99er was the vig.

yeah, that was quite a fail.
overestimated her big time.
5min of skimming her meta would have avoided that
(thing i'm gonna finally start doing)

was real busy IRL at that time.
lack of deep analysis, re-reads.
lack of scum experience

changes little though