NY 188: Delicious Mafia II (Post-game chatter)

[goodmorning]

That I am focused on getting a lynch I want, rather than being bogged down by suspicion, should again speak volumes about my alignment,

but I am getting tired of pointing to reasons why I am town when they never seem to get through to you.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

HI EVERYONE

ESPECIALLY TSO

I AM READING NOW

[goodmorning]

Based on this page alone, Wake is Town. But I think I'll try doing what I did in this game because I absolutely fucking killed it there.

SO.

[goodmorning]

Hi Gm.
You scum?

Nope!

You?

That I am focused on getting a lynch I want, rather than being bogged down by suspicion, should again speak volumes about my alignment,

but I am getting tired of pointing to reasons why I am town when they never seem to get through to you.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

HI EVERYONE

ESPECIALLY TSO

I AM READING NOW

!!!!!!!!!!!

??????????

[goodmorning]

I'm waiting for you to call me town so we can hunt scum together and enjoy shenanigans!

We'll see!

I'm really hoping for that because I'd like to be Town with you! Shenanigans are great!

Exclamation points I don't know why!

[goodmorning]

Based on this page alone, Wake is Town.

Easy to say, but do you mean it?

Until I've read the rest of the game, sure.

Do you have much experience with Scum TSO?

Me?
In NY180, he was 3p and I was T
In MN1655, M, T
In NY178, M, T
In MT1649, T, Mod
In Uncouth, T, T (not concurrent)
In NY176, T, Mod
In N1436, T, T
In O526, T, T
In MN1530, T, T
In N1377, T, T.

So yes, recently.

P-Edit: @Silver: And remind me how you tell you're not working with Scum?

[goodmorning]

I really don't want to read this game omg.

p1-5:
Town:
Townleans: tex, Shinobi, ika(?), Nos
idkwtfigo-leans: ika(?), Silver, Anna*, Wake, Quar(?), T S O
Scumleans: Lapsa, red, Quar(?)
Scum:

*I can tell I'm probably not going to be able to read this slot

at all

.

So you guys are just going to speedlynch and then look at wagon instead of just dropping it? Seems legit, no problems here.

You prefer 50+ pages of bullshit?

i replaced actual genius

[goodmorning]

He came in trolling and I fucking dig him for it.

[goodmorning]

oh u

[goodmorning]

I don't let myself troll as often as I'd like to, so I like seeing it from others in an arena in which I don;t have to deal with it because it's annoying as fuck while it's actually going on.

[goodmorning]

pedit: If you think he's a genius, you should see when Aero had to lock the thread for a cooldown and read him then.

I saw that such a thing happened and I promise I'll get there at some point.

And then probably cry, because those things are almost never good for alignment indication.

[goodmorning]

p6-10:
Town: Nos
Townleans: tex, Shinobi, ika(?), T S O, Sky(?), Spiff
idkwtfigo-leans: ika(?), Silver(?), Wake, Quar(?), red, Boon, Sky(?), Creede(?)
Scumleans: Lapsa, Quar(?), Silver(?), Creede(?), Anna
Scum:

This is a lot harder without flips to analyse too. Or maybe it's just the same few people that I notice posting.

[goodmorning]

p11-15:
Town: Nos, T S O, ika
Townleans: tex, Shinobi, Sky(?), Spiff, Boon, Gray(?)
idkwtfigo-leans: Wake(?), Quar(?), red, Sky(?), Creede(?), Gray(?)
Scumleans: Lapsa, Quar(?), Creede(?), Anna, Mahon, Wake(?)
Scum: Silver

Nos is A. TownAF and B. hilarious.
TSO and ika have read my future past mind and it is wonderful.

[goodmorning]

but your snark is

beautiful

[goodmorning]

I presume that these will all be explained in due time, yes?

I'll tell you what I told Sonic in that game:

p-Edit: @MS: I'm chunking them for a few reasons. First, so that there's a semblance of me having played from the beginning. Second, so that the motivations for people moving up and down can be perceived without me having to explain every little detail. Third, so that it's easier for me to find and point at specific posts that make me feel specific ways about people.
I don't plan to sit down and explain all of them but I will explain specific ones if asked. I don't plan to waste a lot of time on the past though.

[goodmorning]

p16-20:
Town: Nos, T S O, ika, Shinobi
Townleans: tex, Sky(?), Spiff, Boon, Gray(?)
idkwtfigo-leans: Quar(?), red, Sky(?), Creede(?), Gray(?)
Scumleans: Lapsa, Quar(?), Creede(?), Anna, Wake, Oz
Scum: Silver, Mahon

TOO MUCH SCUM
Also like 2 players haven't even pinged my radar, who the fuck are they?

Disdain of meta might be the new cool kid, but meta definitely has its place.

ilu tso

In Freshwater Frenzy, I had 3 Scum parties. Unless my eyes deceive me, I think that is possible here as well.

W E I R D

on the faulty assumption that this is singleball. It is way too early to start making conclusions.

Then why conclude the singleball assumption is faulty?

W E I R D E R

What's a singleball? I can't find it on the wiki.

If nobody answered this, or if anyone else was wondering, singleball means one and only one Scum team, where SK doesn't count as a team.
It's a phrase less commonly used than 'not multiball.'

I have this weird feeling about Creede, like he's actually a troll alt of like abc or someone.
idk.

[goodmorning]

Fair enough.
Btw there's no way that creede is abc.

You'd be surprised!

Do you feel what I feel about Creede though? The newbish facade but the hint of darkness?

[goodmorning]

p21-25:
Town: Nos, T S O, ika, Shinobi
Townleans: tex, Sky, Spiff, Boon, Gray(?)
idkwtfigo-leans: Quar(?), red, Creede(?), Gray(?), Kop
Scumleans: Lapsa, Quar(?), Creede(?), Anna, Oz
Scum: Silver, Mahon, Wake

Yeahhhh I now feel certain enough to

Vote: Silver

And TSO is one towny motherfucker you know

And Kop finally appears! Too bad he doesn't say anything relevant!

Aaand after 574 my vote would be equally happy on Wake.

TEE ESS OHHHHHHHH

[goodmorning]

I read pretty quickly, and 25 pages is more than enough to make a serious, confident vote. Hell, 5 pages is enough to make a serious vote.

I don't have time to explain, I'm reading at the SPEED OF LIGHT

[goodmorning]

TIME IS OF ALL THE ESSENCES

[goodmorning]

TSO and who ever else says I'm not giving reads for any of my voted is lying.

Is this @ me? Why do you feel the need to say it?

The sky is blue, you know.

[goodmorning]

p26-30:
Town: Nos, T S O, ika, Shinobi
Townleans: tex, Sky, Spiff, Boon, Gray(?)
idkwtfigo-leans: red, Creede, Gray(?), Kop, Lapsa
Scumleans: Quar, Anna, Oz
Scum: Silver, Mahon, Wake

I think after this one or the next one I'm going to stop for the night.

Lapsa's playstyle still a bit annoying but starting to grow on me. Anna's is steadily more annoying. Neither is indicative but I just felt like it had to be said.

Frogger! But where are you?

And where did Quar go?

[goodmorning]

I read pretty quickly,

Went back to the game I linked where I tried this the first time. It takes me about 7-9 minutes to read and analyse 5 pages if I don't get distracted while doing it.

[goodmorning]

Which I just have. Again.

[goodmorning]

Back to work!

[goodmorning]

Wow good morning been active.

Can I just pretend we both have all same reads?

Me = Lazy

VOTE: Silver
Sleeping goodmorning.

Gross. Make effort pls thx

haha gm id hold off on that vote until you get to the claim!

DON'T SPOIL IT OMG

Fair enough.
Btw there's no way that creede is abc.

You'd be surprised!

Do you feel what I feel about Creede though? The newbish facade but the hint of darkness?

Sort of. A bunch of his earlier stuff bugged me but I wound up sort of ignoring him after a while.
Maybe a person of interest that I'll revisit soonish.

OK!
(I feel I should mention that I've had the misfortune of playing with an abc alt in the past, and it wasn't just a random thing I was saying just because.)

I read pretty quickly, and 25 pages is more than enough to make a serious, confident vote. Hell, 5 pages is enough to make a serious vote.

Not when you haven't read the entire game it isn't.

Look, what I'm saying here is that if I'd been playing the game from the start I'd have been voting you by page 30. Probably a lot sooner, but at least by then.
I'm about to post up to 35, so for all intents and purposes I'm playing the game a week back in time still.

my current right now opinion on the current game state is that salamence may have been right all along tbqh

I mean, there is some benefit to trying not to overwhelm people D1 in a Large because the playerlist is so extensive people can slip through the cracks.

Basically we're just not good as a culture at finding the balance between too much info and too little.

[goodmorning]

ONE MORE TONIGHT
p31-35:
Town: Nos, T S O, ika, Shinobi
Townleans: tex, Sky, Spiff, Boon, Gray(?), Frogger, Creede
idkwtfigo-leans: red, Gray(?), Kop, Lapsa, Quar
Scumleans: Anna, Oz
Scum: Silver, Mahon, Wake

Sal think was getting old like 10 pages ago, sal it was great fun for a while but shut the fuck up srsly

I feel like I should read the next five but I don't think I actually can.

[goodmorning]

did silver drive-by snipe me? i'll cry

[goodmorning]

well i read page 36 and now i'll definitely cry

[goodmorning]

dgb is right, there are too many neighbourhoods in current site meta

[goodmorning]

ughhhhhh i'll cope with this in the morning

[goodmorning]

Look, what I'm saying here is that if I'd been playing the game from the start I'd have been voting you by page 30. Probably a lot sooner, but at least by then.
I'm about to post up to 35, so for all intents and purposes I'm playing the game a week back in time still.

Drop the attitude.

idgaf about having reads as you go and them changing as you read, but feeling confident voting for a person when you have not been playing the game from the beginning and are replacing in and haven't read even half the game yet is not what I would expect from someone honestly trying to figure this game out, unless you caught a scumslip or some other shit.

You were confident enough on p36 to (apparently, based on a skim of your ISO) run Oz up to a claim (don't tell me anything about the speed or claim please).
I would have been confident enough by p30 to do the same to you.

If you have a problem with that then you're not the player I thought you were.

[goodmorning]

Drop the attitude.

wow

I've noticed you don't have a lot to say unless it's about me this game. Reading your ISO, it's apparent. Why is that?

I'm actually curious about this too, because there are players who are great fun to bait but you are certainly not one of them.

[goodmorning]

note to self: stop obsessively refreshing, this game will be hazardous to your health

[goodmorning]

ooh, sick burn red

i like you

p-edit: silver, my whole point is that no,

i don't have the whole game rn

, i'm seeing it from the perspective of someone who was actually there, all i have rn is those 35 pages, that is all of the game that i know

it is more honest and open and easier for me to demonstrate the natural progression of my reads by showing rather than telling

you are astute enough to understand this

your level of correctness this game does not in any way impact on the

type

of player you are

you are astute enough to understand that too

p-edit: BOTH

[goodmorning]

lol delirious mafia is what this should be called omg

p-edit: silver i feel like you are being deliberately obtuse when it comes to the point of me reading in chunks and posting my findings. that is all.

[goodmorning]

lol delirious mafia is what this should be called omg

becaua i am tired and therefore gradually becoming delirious

not because of silver

pls

[goodmorning]

Damn I was fucked up last night. Note to self: sleep = VERY IMPORTANT

Then there's GM saying it's not alignment indicative to fight and get angry but is willing to vote Wake on an emotional post.

What are you even talking about?

So yeah what's up GM?

I'm def Town but sitting Scum in your reads list. Say what?

I started reading the game, that's what.
Are you not getting the point of me posting my thoughts in chunks either?

Ahhhh I don't think I'm going to read the second half rn but by the end of the day I'll get it done.

[goodmorning]

If you are so damn sure I'm scum why not make it a third and get a wagon going on an person with a verifiable town PR?

Just going to point out that, though it is verifiable, it isn't verifiable as Town.

@Gray: Have you given a readslist at any point during this game? If not, please do.

Say what you mean, but please, stop implying that everything I do is all part of my grand plan to manipulate everyone.

That's right! It's

MY

grand plan to manipulate everyone that we're following this time!

Why? Because SHENANIGANS!

[goodmorning]

Why not Mahon, Frogger?

-THOUGHT-
I should go read the last couple of games I had with Silver to see if I was having any fun in them, because LEVITY

it isn't a scumtell silver omg

[goodmorning]

-THOUGHT-
I should go read the last couple of games I had with Silver to see if I was having any fun in them, because LEVITY

it isn't a scumtell silver omg

I thought so.
I was REALLY HAPPY to tear ABR to shreds in NY180. Alarmingly so, even.
I was mildly hilarious in the postgame of Delicious Part 1.
I memed up a little in N1532. I never ever do that shit as an IC, wtf was I thinking?

Literally scrolling through my posts and looking for all caps - that means either intense frustration or intense hilarity. Or memes, which just mean hilarity.

Damn, forgot how scummy House was in Delicious Part 1 for that guilt shit that was going down. Hmm.

[goodmorning]

gm please save me from these people. also don't be scum.

Let's be beffies!

But if you're deceiving me somehow then I will NEVER EVER BE OK AGAIN OKAY

Yeah, I'm definitely compromising my slot's integrity.

Aero, you're going to have to replace me. My apologies.

no no no no

you aren't allowed

Aero just modkill everyone.

posts like these are why i'm glad i didn't alienate you forever with that open



In other news, wtf is this game even? RL sucks rn and I can't even escape into this because it sucks tooooooo

[goodmorning]

So yeah. I wanna say:
I am a role cop.
I checked TSO, He is not aligned with town.

...that's... That's not how that works.

I find the sudden 'TSO suspected Wake, now Wake is dead' narrative

really weird

.

Oh, and I'm guessing Boon was the Vig kill, but that was dumb, because Boon was Town from the first half of D1.

On Normal discussion:
NO. Explicitly Non-Normal Roles are NOT allowed in Normal games. That's the whole point of calling them EXPLICITLY NON-NORMAL. The '2 weird roles' rule applies only to Roles and Modifiers not on that list.

So I think we have to lynch TSO :[

[goodmorning]

No, finding Town and using PoE to get the Scum is perfectly acceptable.

But TSO isn't Survivor because that's not allowable.

[goodmorning]

And 5 is the most likely number of Scum in this game.

[goodmorning]

If it's one faction. 5-1 or 4-1 would make sense.

3-3 or 2-2-1 would also make sense.

[goodmorning]

Oh,

Vote: TSO

Forgot that.

Yeah, there're a lot of possible permutations but my money is currently on 3p TSO and one other faction.

P-Edit: 5 groupscum in one faction, I mean.
P-P-Edit: I don't think of SK as Scum necessarily.

[goodmorning]

Unvote

I still think you're 3p but if you want to be helpful who am I to stop you?

[goodmorning]

I'm not in the NRG but I've modded my fair share of Normals and keep up with the guidelines even though I'm not going to mod any more because of the hydra thing.

That said, now I'm debating a lynch or leash.

[goodmorning]

I think there are scum in the lurkers-those barely playing for sure.

GM-how would leashing be helpful here?

Leashing TSO? Because he's not Town and not a Survivor and probably able to kill and possibly a 3p or else he'd have selfhammered when I pointed out that he can't be a Survivor.

So, in leashing him, we could net a Scum kill.
Or we could fuck up worse.

One of those.

The hydra thing?

The 'hydrae aren't Normal' thing.

I am in two minds of whether to say stuff since all this talk about my role irritates me because it's so fucking wrong, but it suits me to not claim since so far I've made the optimal plays with my role and I HOPED GM WOULD SEE WHAT I WAS DOING but never mind.

You're not saying what I think you're saying?

Hmmm. If you are saying what I think you're saying then LoL isn't a valid proposition.

Survivor's been non-Normal since before the new guidelines though, if that's what you're trying to imply, which I don't think it is.

[goodmorning]

Your vote only put him at L-2. I had already pointed out he was at L-3 before that.

And no, I'm not a fan of leashing a 3P killing role or leaving them around in a game once they are out.

Hmm.

Then I think our opinions differ.

If Survivor or any non-killing 3P was possible, I still wouldn't be a fan of leaving him around. His wincon is not the same as town's, I'm sure you are aware of that.

It's as similar to Town's as it is to Scum's. The 3p will play it in their own way, it's a lot more flexible than regular Scum that way.

If he is 3p, he'd probably be inclined to play in a way that would help Town.

The hydra thing?

The 'hydrae aren't Normal' thing.

I don't understand how that would keep you from modding.

I'm annoyed about it and don't want to mod a game in which I don't feel I have discretion as to my playerlists, since I don't personally consider hydrae non-Normal.
Why are you asking me about this?

GM can confirm I got yelled at for claiming tracker too early.

It's true.

[goodmorning]

What I don't understand is, if you are what you're implying you are, why you won't claim.

Vote: Mahon

[goodmorning]

Maybe, but f it's that or dead...?

[goodmorning]

Am I the only one who gets what TSO is saying?

I mean, he could still be lying to me but he's implying it pretty heavily now so...

[goodmorning]

Did you SK claim in the hood before or after the Night was over?

[goodmorning]

It's like no-one gets that I'm legitimately following my WC by trying to lynch scum when it's basic logic.

Well, BEST play for an SK is to try to lynch Scum, fail, then kill Scum. That way enough Town still die that it's not a problem and Scum don't kill you because nobody listens to you.

But failing that, lynching Scum is the next best thing.

P-Edit: OK.

I believe TSO and think we ought to give him another Day at least. Either we force the Scum to kill him or we continue to have a kill we can direct.

[goodmorning]

Can you talk to me about your vote and your read on me?

Eventually.

Everything I've read of you mentioning me just says I'm scum, but not why.

That's what happens when you're trying to get caught up quickly.

Let's be productive with this, not just wanting a lynch.

grossssss

What does T S O have to gain from being leashed? They are just gonna get lynched and lose anyway if they are the SK.

What does he have to lose from being leashed?

[goodmorning]

mah is super scummeh, I'd vote that shit 2nd adfterr Red

no offense mah, I lkie you otherwise but scum is scum

I'm more inclined to vote Mahon still but I haven't read pages 37-65 yet so maybe there's something between there that will change my mind?

Quar said to wait until D3. I'm actually not wanting to end the day right now Texcat until we've discussed who else is scum like I just mentioned. Did you read me or Qua? I'm kind of wondering why the only thing you want to talk about is killing TSO, ending the day ASAP, and nothing else. You've been more active on this issue than most other things all game.

This is an interesting point.

--
ftr I'm probably not going to chunk the pages I haven't read because I know too much.

[goodmorning]

Holy fucking shit people, the correct move for town is clearly not to lynch TSO today. Now, the correct move for scum is to scream for his lynch today and discredit any arguments against that.

This.

Can we decide who we're actually going to lynch now?

[goodmorning]

What are you even talking about?

[goodmorning]

I do have one additional question that is nagging me, hopefully someone can help me with-How common is it for a game to have 2 vigs that work on opposite nights AND a SK and a scumteam meaning 3 kills possible every night? I saw it in Ozgin's game, a mini but that was only even-night vig and there was a BP role and a JOAT, etc. to balance things. I guess I want to make sure TSO is not groupscum in a multiball setting here.

Given that we saw 3 kills N1 and one of them was Boon and Aero is the Mod, pretty likely there are 2 Vigs and SK and Mafs.

[goodmorning]

Can someone make a Neighbourhood list just in case I don;t get around to reading the pages I missed today?

[goodmorning]

Hmmmm.

[goodmorning]

you people are so talkative

[goodmorning]

You apparently missed the entire point of the "just trust me part". It's not supposed to be discussed because hey guess what that's anti-town.

No, that's not how this game works. You don't get to not explain your reads and call people out for asking you why by saying "that's anti-town."

omg yes

you people are so talkative

Are you going to do anything or explain your reads or your votes? Why Mah? Any other scumreads? Did you change your mind on me and if so, why?

Mahon has been obviously Scum pretty much the whole game (at least, what I've read of it). There's not much more I can really say about that atm unless you're super desperate to have me make a case in which case I'll try a little harder.
I've been busy with school stuff, so I'm trying to work up the momentum to read the pages I haven't read all in one go so I can stop thinking about it.
I've mostly changed my mind on you because of your claim, which would make reasonable sense from Town or a Maf Traitor but not from groupscum probably. I'm discounting the Traitor atm because it's not very likely.
Though that would be one hell of a coincidence.

[goodmorning]

-And maybe GM-not enough explanation for reads, votes, and entrance still bugs me

Like I said, I'm getting there.

What about it?

[goodmorning]

Goodmorning and Ozgin, could you two vote Red? Thank you.

There are eleven days left in this Day phase. Maybe I'll vote Red once I'm caught up, maybe I'll start defending Red once I'm caught up, I don't know but I'm not moving my vote til I've read the rest.

@Lapsa: Not sure you've noticed, but catching up is difficult when the game grows as quickly as this one.

[goodmorning]

why are you voting Mahonster?

Because he doesn't look good in the first 35 pages nor in these last 35.

I have yet to read the middle 30. Is his play substantially different there? I doubt it.

If Red flips scum, then goodmorning is town.

I don't see why his flip should have any bearing on me whatsoever.

[goodmorning]

i mean its not even something thats should be debated, we have anohter vig in the game with 3 death (uless we are in sk/WW/Maf)

except the other vig is likely oddnight

tonight is even

js

[goodmorning]

@TSO: It's really not a waste of time, there are apparently claims in those pages and other shit that I might find deeply enlightening if everyone could just shut the fuck up with the same posts over and over and over.

DO YOU ALL SEE HOW THERE'S NOTHING NEW IN THE LAST 4 PAGES FOR ME TO RESPOND TO? THERE ISN'T.

p-edit: or bussing

[goodmorning]

Is there no hope of you accepting a synopsis?

Depends who's making the synopsis.

[goodmorning]

@TSO: At this point I'd probably only trust something like that off Silver.

All he and texcat do is talk about lynching TSO over and over to the point where two relatively inactive posters are suddenly a lot more interested in the game. Does anyone question that?

Me, somewhat!

I'm good with TSO shooting either Tex or Mahonster.

This is probably going to be my feeling on it after those missing pages.
My current feeling may lean a bit more towards Mahon or Quar.

[goodmorning]

Yeah, WW implies multiball, multiball implies TSOScum.

So I was wrong.

[goodmorning]

@SwampCat, have you read thread yet?

Why would I want to read the thread while it's locked? I couldn't quote things and make pithy comments if I so desired. That's just boring.

--
3-3 is the most probable at this point but I'm not sure that helps us in any way. 7v4 means we're probably fucked if we lynch any more Town, so let's try not to.

The NKs tell me that the Wolf team is likely a bit silly and that TSO was probably the strongest Maf player, but I don't think that really helps either.

I'm still inclined to vote Mahon, I think, but can we please go long enough without lynching that I can actually read the fucking thread?

[goodmorning]

come to think of it that question literally does not make sense except from someone who is trying to act confused.

[goodmorning]

oh, and the penthouse is another question, since we know it's multiball so one scum chatroom wouldn't make sense.

[goodmorning]

and would tex have gotten the doc power or the even-night vig? i'm assuming doc.

[goodmorning]

no shit, sherlock

[goodmorning]

mahon, at this point in the game, scum might want to be thinking about aiming for scum

js

[goodmorning]

also that was pretty scum theatre-y

[goodmorning]

there is too much tso vs wake in these pages

both of you are dead, can you retroactively shut the fuck up?

p-edit:
if you people lynch oz before i'm finished i will throw a fucking fit.

like OH, NO, LET'S NOT LET THE REPLACEMENT CATCH UP SO WE CAN FUCKING READ HER SLOT AND SHE CAN BE A PRODUCTIVE TOWN MEMBER

THAT WOULD JUST BE STUPID

[goodmorning]

Besides which, given that it was 4 votes in like 10 posts i think the possibility of a quick lynch isn't low, especially given the tso lynch before I was caught up and the Red lynch before I was caught up and the Gray lynch before I was caught up...

[goodmorning]

As of right now, I think this is where I'm at.

Town: Frogger
Townleans: Sky, Nos, Firebringer
idkwtfigo-leans: Kop, Lapsa
Scumleans: Anna, Quar
Scum: Mahon, Oz

Quar is probably not on Oz team.
I'm guessing Oz Maf, Mahon likely Wolf. What appears to be the Wolf kill doesn't make sense from Oz.
But these are guesses, and not to be taken too seriously.

Firebringer's last guilty was on a Maf, so there is the Wolf possibility to consider there if Oz flips Maf, and esp because Oz claimed a mostly investigative JOAT, but I lean Town (as above).

[goodmorning]

I now feel much better.

[goodmorning]

Does anyone have questions?

[goodmorning]

That's nice, but that's also not a questionnnnnnnnnnnnn

[goodmorning]

Does anyone have questions?

Mahonster had one. seems impossible to you?

That was the question I said was stupid, of course 1 II per team isn't impossible.

Funny that Quaroath called me out on playing like Billi from our last game, because his play right now is the similar in some ways to that game too. When he was scum.

Lurking hard last couple of days.
If scum, likely werewolf from his push on red and I.

Good bus!

[goodmorning]

Nobody else has any questions for me?

[goodmorning]

That depends on what strategy the scumteams adopt.

Why?

[goodmorning]

(This conversation reminds me of something and I'm going to figure out what if I can.)

I don't see why my opinion matters, but OK.

Now that we're getting down to lower Town numbers, the Scum are probably going to want to take each other out. I'm guessing Mafia killed tex on TSO's recommendation. I'm also guessing that the Wolves are newer or not paying as much attention, since ika was obvTown, which indicates either iffy strategy or iffy reads, or that they're feeling universally scumread.

Now, assuming Oz is Mafia, the last remaining Mafia will be exceedingly likely to want a Wolf dead; the numerical disadvantage is not a nice place to be. They should probably aim for Quar or Mahon (if Mahon is the other Maf obviously he'll not shoot himself).

The Wolves will be in a slightly better position, obviously. They may try to shoot the last Maf, or they may choose to aim elsewhere. If they do aim for Town I suspect they might aim to break the Neighbourhood.

[goodmorning]

@goodmorning
If it was Night right now, what do you think the best course of action for scum would be? I know this is an odd line of questioning, but I would like to see your thought process regarding this.

That's what it reminded me of.

[goodmorning]

Yes, but potential future NKs aren't strictly game-relevant.

[goodmorning]

^you don't even have to be a gambling man to make that bet

mahon would lose a 1v1 with literally anyone else in this game except maybe the cop guilty.

[goodmorning]

lolololololololololololololol

[goodmorning]

That argument about readslists is fucking stupid, and I've always wanted to say that but it only comes up when I IC and I try not to get too rude and sweary there.

Yeah, readslists are the best way to hold people accountable for their thoughts. When you don't post a readslist, it's easy to focus on just a couple people and jump on whatever wagons you want. And no-one can go 'but you were townreading X!' because you only ever talked about Y and Z.

[goodmorning]

Besides which, Scum know who no-one's scumreading - it's called

looking at votecounts

.

[goodmorning]

You know whose slot has received one single vote the entire game, and that in RVS? Frogger. You know how long it took me to check that? About 15 seconds.

[goodmorning]

Besides which, Scum know who no-one's scumreading - it's called

looking at votecounts

.

This is BS. Getting updated reads lists after two quick b2b days is key for scum to narrow down their best bets to carry the game home.

I don't even have to look at votecounts to know that mahon's getting lynched tomorrow (if he even lives that long), Sky and Frogger will never be lynched, Firebringer and Nos probably no, you're not an unlikely lynch candidate and neither is Kop or Anna, Lapsa could go any which way, and I'm a massive question mark because I've only just caught up.

Is that not a basic summary of the game? Literally, only someone who's completely not paying attention could miss any of that.

So I want to know who's got reads that fall outside that, and why. I want to see people have to take a stand or be accused of playing it safe.

lolololololololololololololol

Also, expound, because you can leap off this fence either way.

What the fuck are you actually talking about?

[goodmorning]

I don't hate you, I just scumread you.

[goodmorning]

inb4 Nos is GIF

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I don't think Oz will come back, which is silly because it would be better strategy to try to get rid of the other scumteam since town are sucking so hard right now.

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Nosferatu, I have reasons to believe Kop is town. I don't want to disclose them now though.

Hmmmm.

[goodmorning]

like... what da fuck is this shit?!

Nosferatu, I have reasons to believe Kop is town. I don't want to disclose them now though.

You know whose slot has received one single vote the entire game, and that in RVS? Frogger

Wake...I don't think Anna is scum. Do I think she's being anti-town? Yes.

...and many more

I'm not in a hood. my quote there is me pointing out to Quar that his argument against readslists is really stupid.

[goodmorning]

Isn't a JOAT usually one shot cop, one shot doctor, one shot vigilante, and one shot roleblocker? So how did you get two investigate shots?

There's no such thing as 'usual' for a JoaT.

ftr Oz is going to flip scum imo

[goodmorning]

Looks like we're in another 'nobody is saying anything new' slump, so

Vote: Oz

[goodmorning]

I'm voting Mahon today unless something serious occurs.

[goodmorning]

SwampCat, what do you think of Oz death note?

2908 you mean? Any specific part?

VOTE: Fro99er
Ozgin claimed Fro was town in D2. Based on his flip and death note, there's no way for this to be true.

What?

And goodmorning please consider that you've never played with me before, and that for this entire game my play style has been what I consider pretty normal for myself.

1. Playstyle's not alignment-indicative.
2. If you know your meta, you can buck your meta.

[goodmorning]

Any specific part?

no

Then what was the point?

[goodmorning]

I don't have any particular thoughts about it one way or another.

[goodmorning]

Well the only person who isn't a neighbor and who is still alive is lapsa afaik and he doesn't seem to be part of a neighbourhood.

And me!

[goodmorning]

I haven't really had the time to do anything with this game.

I still feel pretty much the same about everyone in it.

I want to go back over Oz's results again, that's about it.

[goodmorning]

He's not actually doing anything about the lack of activity though, just saying it sucks.

Anyone can do that.

Hell, anyone can effort a little to look Town in a dead game. idk why you'd think it would be alignment-indicative.

[goodmorning]

1. On Mah's questions: 1 to Anna, who's sporadic at question-answering at best, and 2 on setup spec, which is completely unhelpful.

MUCH HELP, VERY ACTIVITY

2. On Frogger outing: meh. I'm not super convinced by 'but mod meta' and 'he's not been using the thread wisely'. Mods can change up their meta just like anyone else, and I don't think Kop would necessarily know how to use a Neighbour thread to its fullest. Hell, I don't even know how to do that half the time. And asking the people you've neighbourised who you should get next? That's definitely something I would do if I was out of my depth (which is pretty much always).

Now, why he didn't Neighbourise anyone N4 is a question I'd like answered, but I think for now I don't want to lynch Kop.

Also, booooo I thought the Penthouse was going to be Masons and that's why it couldn't be visited.

[goodmorning]

Nice job only appearing when you're accused of being scum.

beetlejuice is a bad tell and you should feel bad

[goodmorning]

omg aero it is your scumday

yes ^.^

[goodmorning]

And the other two points you've conveniently missed me addressing there?

[goodmorning]

I dont even know what your other two points are

2. On Frogger outing: meh.

I'm not super convinced by

'but mod meta' and

'he's not been using the thread wisely'.

Mods can change up their meta just like anyone else, and

I don't think Kop would necessarily know how to use a Neighbour thread to its fullest. Hell, I don't even know how to do that half the time.

And asking the people you've neighbourised who you should get next? That's definitely something I would do if I was out of my depth (which is pretty much always).

1 bold, the other italicised

[goodmorning]

We have perfectly good flips to take associatives from, let's not do them with people who haven't y/y?

[goodmorning]

I dont even know what your other two points are

2. On Frogger outing: meh.

I'm not super convinced by

'but mod meta' and

'he's not been using the thread wisely'.

Mods can change up their meta just like anyone else, and

I don't think Kop would necessarily know how to use a Neighbour thread to its fullest. Hell, I don't even know how to do that half the time.

And asking the people you've neighbourised who you should get next? That's definitely something I would do if I was out of my depth (which is pretty much always).

1 bold, the other italicised

Bolded is speculation. WHY don't you think he'd know how to use a neighborizer role? Explain, instead of just assuming.

Italicized is something you'd do. Why does what you do have any bearing on what he does? How does that refute my point? My point his, he's trying to appease town.

Your defenses of him are really weak. Stop speculating and actually provide something concrete.

Bolded: Because he's got ten completed games and I've got about a hundred ten, because I've been a Neighbour or Neighbouriser 4ish times that I can remember, maybe more. With all that experience I have of Neighbourhoods and me still having trouble, coupled with him being a generally less active player than I am anyway...

Italic: Weirdly, it's kind of a good idea to lean on Townies you feel might be having a better game than you. Silver's PR made her very likely Town.

It's not appeasement, it's good sense.

Also, last time I was a Town Neighbouriser, I asked everyone I Neighbourised whom they thought I should Neighbourise next. It's totally a believable behaviour from Town, as much as or more than from Scum.

Your 'case' on him is what's weak.

And mostly speculation, at that.

I've even pointed out a specific paraphrased quote that serves NO town purpose.

You mean this?

Also Kop said this (paraphrasing) in the neighborhood PT

"I want to keep our neighbor PT (penthouse) private so that scum don't take out confirm towns, giving them less place to hide. If we're not killed, they won't be able to hide"

That's such scum BS. Why is he assuming myself and sky are conftowns? He shows NO town paranoia there. None. It's like he wants to make a "conftown" bloc of me, sky, and him, and ride that out. Fuck that.

I'm guessing he thinks any of several things:
That if Scum was in the Neighbourhood, he'd be dead by now AND/OR
That Silver tends to have decent reads, so Sky is probably OK, and that you were checked (2008) (admittedly by Scum, so meh but I can see why he might think it) and came back clean (well, at least non-WW (2886)) AND/OR
That his role is far more likely to be Town-aligned (which is, in fact, true for site meta in general), which would make him pretty confTown.


You keep pushing the narrative that he has to be Scum, but all his behaviour is quite simply explained if coming from a Town POV.

--
Frogger for last Maf? Hmm. Oz readslist in 1192 makes it plausible. Frogger would be a weird investigative choice as well, and Oz didn't reinforce that result in his death post. Only thing pointing slightly against it is that TSO would be a more likely teammate to have cleared.

BUT if it's 1-2-5, and it probably is, we can't lynch the last Mafia or we lose.
We need to aim Wolf today and hope for crosskills.

[goodmorning]

Actually, that's not quite right, but lynching the last Maf would put us in MyLo with no hope of crosskills.

[goodmorning]

Then again, if we lynch Wolf and Scum both kill Town then we're at 1-2-3 and absolutely fucked.

[goodmorning]

ooohhhh

food queue: roast beef with yorkshire pudding

ahhhh, christmassss

i yearn for your fried potatoey goodness

even though they're fried with a little marmite which should taste really weird but is somehow fucking delicious

[goodmorning]

I trust Lapsa a weird amount right now and I don't know why.

[goodmorning]

Maybe it's a half win, Like they both get half the prize.

Example:
If the prize was Ice Cream, one team would get only ice and the other would get only cream.

If I were Scum, I'd want the ice. It's really fucking hot here.

Anyway werewolf is Kop and so is GM.

...you think I'd waste time rebutting your case my partner with a wagon on him I couldn't be certain I'd derail?

No, I'm Town, and Kop is probably Town too, and you should do some better hunting than that, especially if you actually are Mafia (which is even more strongly implied by your certainty on Wolves, like you've been Wolf-hunting, and uncertainty on Mafia, as though you haven't given a single scrap of effort).

Ooh, unless Oz used his Seer on Kop and got Guilty and then pretended it was a Cop on you instead so you'd look inno... ooohhhhhh, maybe that's what he meant in 2908(!!!) Kop is probably a WW? Doesn't reiterate Frogger-copping results? SOLVED IT GUYS

No, I'm more inclined to think he's Town, though it is an interesting idea.

@Nos: How do you envision a massclaim being anything but useless?

I'm losing conviction with this wagon.
UNVOTE: Kop

I'm not a huge fan of this, especially given that the vote was a complete sheep too:

I'm comfortable with this VOTE: Kop

In fact, Nos hasn't posted anything particularly valuable in a while.

I haven't seen much of game solving out of her

and I know she is a good player.

So, calling out Frogger's shit case, postulating several reasons he might be the last Maf, continuing to scumread Mahon, pointing out that Anna's question to me about NKs could be construed as scummy,

literally creating a moving readslist so people could ask me what events changed my mind on people that every single person ignored

, and generally being preempted in catching up for like 3 game Days, that's not game solving to you?

It's neither my job nor my style to lead the Town to victory, so if that's what you were looking for from me, don't.

But I am ridiculously flattered that you think I'm good.

[goodmorning]

l o l

look at frogger ignoring direct questions to him

so adorbs

[goodmorning]

I've made it clear a ridiculous number of times in my past few posts who I think is Mafia. If you're asking me that then you haven't been paying attention. Unless you only put it there so I wouldn't accuse you of paying undue attention to the Wolves again, in which case I'm still right about you.
As for Wolves... I'm still interested in Mahon, Nos is an option, and so is Anna.

Kop isn't really a good pick for my partner. I went to check my recent Scum meta, and I tend to avoid Null-reading my partners for any significant length of time. Typically I put them at a townread of any degree or as a minor 'we can lynch him later' scumread. Kop's been a nullread of mine from the moment he hit my radar as existing (1612) to very very recently (3010).

So you should probably start casting me as Mafia if you still want to scumread me.

... wait. Is your whole case on me just associatives before flips?

brb dying

--
I feel like every time someone says 'maybe we should lynch X' there are immediately several votes on X.
--



Maybe we should lynch Aero?

[goodmorning]

... wait. Is your whole case on me just associatives before flips?

No.

And...I do preflip associatives ALL THE TIME. EVERY GAME. It's a null tell for me, but a very strong scum-tell for others is when other people call me out on it. It's got a very high success rate.

I haven't seen you say anything but.

Who's calling you out for it?
I'm not saying it's Scum, I'm saying it's dumb.


And if you wanted to lynch me, you should have done it before situation critical. I refuse to be mislynched at this stage of the game. It's not happening.

I will only lynch Kop or GM today. I think the safest lynch is Kop, because I cannot see a plausible balance with neighborizer as town. It's too town sided otherwise.

Neighbouriser is a PR that doesn't do shit to help anyone. It has minor negative utility for Town. It has variable utility for Scum but is 99% likely useless.
It definitely wouldn't balance as a Scum role in this game, because there's no role so comparatively weak for it to balance with on the other team.

Nice consistency.

1. Scum are far more likely to be consistent than Town are; it's easier.
2. There've been nearly 100 pages since I last had a strong townread on you. There's been a Mafia flip & Investigative outing since the last time I had a strong townread on Frogger.

Good try!

Yeah...I went from the most town, to the most scum by GM. And that was only AFTER I made that post about Kop.....

Because it was a pretty terrible post!
See also: Oz stuff I've been saying recently.

[goodmorning]

If people confTown Neighbourisers just because they're Neighbourisers, then those people are engaging in extremely stupid play.

And nobody builds stupidity into the balance of their setups.

[goodmorning]

Anna's ocnftown,

Since when?

and Mah cannot be with Red.

I disagree.

[goodmorning]

Anna's ocnftown,

Since when?

Since she claimed vig to me and Sky and suddenly BOTH sky and town suddenly stopped wanting to lynch Anna. It's been quite obvious and I've been hinting we still have an odd night vig. She's not getting lynched today, and this will almost surely be her last odd night vig, so I don't mind outing it now. We know she'll get her kill tonight.

This is actually helpful, albeit diminishes the likelihood of Scum crosskills. Much more helpful than just randomly calling people confTown.

Both Sky and Town?

@gm why did your read of me go from "super town" to "possible scum"? My posts haven't changed much content wise, albeit the snark has been diminished.

Before, you were into conversations about people. Now, you're more into conversations about setup.

Fucked up quote there. GM - tell me why Mah can be Red's buddy. Specific examples.

And who would be his other werewolf buddy assuming 3 werewolf?

Tell me why he can't. You keep asserting that it's not possible, but I don't see any reasons why not.

Like I said, possibly Nos. Could be Lapsa, but like I said, I find myself trusting Lapsa.
Not Kop.

[goodmorning]

Why is it that all of Frogger's 'gm is scum' posts assume that I'm a blatantly transparent idiot as Scum?

p l e a s e.

[goodmorning]

Because that would be suspicious, maybe?

[goodmorning]

but then frogger's argument about towncred is invalid

[goodmorning]

[Neighborizer] definitely wouldn't balance as a Scum role in this game, because there's no role so comparatively weak for it to balance with on the other team.

yes, it balanced the JOAT (1 shot seer 1 shot vanilla cop) that Oz has

In refraction, wolf Neighborizer was balanced by mafia vanilla cop

hmmmmmmmmmm.

[goodmorning]

My D1 reads woulda been great if anyone had given me time to make them before D4...

[goodmorning]

Well, on the other hand, there's me, who doesn't let go of fucking any read ever. There's such a thing as too much read consistency too.

[goodmorning]

siiiilverrrr

[goodmorning]

Even better.

[goodmorning]

As you like.

[goodmorning]

What Silver said, especially the motivation thing.

On a less serious note, keep the sass, it's fun.

[goodmorning]

I think sometimes you're doomed and sometimes you're not, and usually you can tell the difference.