NY 188: Delicious Mafia II (Post-game chatter)

[SilverWolf]

"Welp!" said Aero. "Guess we have a mystery on our hands." He locks the doors and eats the key. It's made of chocolate. "Nobody leaves until we find the murderer(s)! And don't mess up again like last time, wow you guys really sucked.

Hey!! I resent this comment.

VOTE: Wake

Long time no play. Hi everyone!!

[SilverWolf]

Also, everyone remember with ika in the game, to NOT put anyone to L-1 on D1 unless you want them lynched because he will hammer L-1's without warning.

[SilverWolf]

Also, everyone remember with ika in the game, to NOT put anyone to L-1 on D1 unless you want them lynched because he will hammer L-1's without warning.

If memory serves, wouldn't that be Boonskiies?

Shit, it's both of them. Ugh.................

[SilverWolf]

Also, everyone remember with ika in the game, to NOT put anyone to L-1 on D1 unless you want them lynched because he will hammer L-1's without warning.

If memory serves, wouldn't that be Boonskiies?

Shit, it's both of them. Ugh.................

Ika does, too?

Yep, he does.

[SilverWolf]

VOTE: ika

Takes one to know one.

Ohi wake

Ummm, you were already voting him once. Is this a serious vote now or?

[SilverWolf]

VOTE: TSO

Last match I played with TSO he scared me shitless AND got me to lynch myself. I'm just gonna go ahead and nope.avi vote him here.

Yeah but Ozgin, You were scum in that game. Why are you worried about him here?

Also, Hi!!

[SilverWolf]

Also, everyone remember with ika in the game, to NOT put anyone to L-1 on D1 unless you want them lynched because he will hammer L-1's without warning.

Would they hammer if they themself are at L-1? Poor food, no one talks about the yummy food.

What is your favorite kinda food?

I don't think Boon would, I've never seen him do it. Ika might if he was scum. Doesn't seem like it here so far though. He's putting in more effort than he does as scum. Not sure about Boon. I will say, I hate that I have to remind everyone to not put anyone past L-2 unless you want them hammered by one of these two. :/

I like seafood. Feel free to PM Aero with requests for food pics, that's what we did last game.

Hi Wolfie!

Hi Skybird!! How's it going?

I really hate phone posting here and unfortunately my hard drive is fried so that's what I have to do until I get and install a new one or I can get to another computer.

So yeah, major pain in my ass right now.

[SilverWolf]

Welcome to the game, RedFF!!

[SilverWolf]

ah

unvote

damn didnt see that thanks for pointing that out

gonna stop phoneposting from work lol. ill be in the thread later tn

Gross

VOTE: redFF

He is letting go of a scumread way too easy here. The slightest push back and he unvotes.

[SilverWolf]

Gross

VOTE: redFF

He is letting go of a scumread way too easy here. The slightest push back and he unvotes.

Do you think Lapsa is a currently valid scumread?

Why wouldn't he be? Do you have a reason to believe he's town?

The whole redff train seems like total bs, he said the post seemed forced, and was told that it was a quote from a previous game, why would anyone kepp a vote after that?

Why unvote at this point though? Why not check out the link and try to figure out Lapsa's alignment?

The whole redff train seems like total bs, he said the post seemed forced, and was told that it was a quote from a previous game, why would anyone kepp a vote after that?

Possibly.
Do you have a better vote?

You for starting the train for no reason.

Why didn't you vote for Shinobi here?

So you guys are just going to speedlynch and then look at wagon instead of just dropping it? Seems legit, no problems here.

You prefer 50+ pages of bullshit?

Not that, it initially seemed like looking for a mislynch to me, but now that I see what you're doing and know the reasoning behind it, I no longer have problems with it.

Wait, you make a big stink out of the wagon and votes and now you don't have a problem with it?

more like as many problems with it, as I still feel like the lynchee was chosen somewhat arbitrarily

Again, this is extremely wishy-washy since you made a big deal out of the wagon and now you are backtracking on that. Explain your thought process here cuz I don't get it.

VOTE: TSO

Last match I played with TSO he scared me shitless AND got me to lynch myself. I'm just gonna go ahead and nope.avi vote him here.

Yeah but Ozgin, You were scum in that game. Why are you worried about him here?

Also, Hi!!

And TSO was a Serial Killer. Regardless of alignment, nobody has scared me as much as him. o_o

Is there serious stuff happening already? Are we out of RVS yet?

Yes, and Happy Birthday and good luck with all your other life adventures.

The whole redff train seems like total bs, he said the post seemed forced, and was told that it was a quote from a previous game, why would anyone kepp a vote after that?

Possibly.
Do you have a better vote?

You for starting the train for no reason.

Except this isn't true. I gave you a reason.

You started the train for a profusely dumb reason, his unvote, when no reasonable person would keep up a vote after their main reason for voting was dispelled.

Not true at all. Unless Red thinks Lapsa is town, there is no reason not to keep the vote on here. The unvote looks like a quick reaction to a tiny bit of push back and scummy.

more like as many problems with it, as I still feel like the lynchee was chosen somewhat arbitrarily

I agree, which is why Wolfie would be a better lynchee since they were chosen unarbitrarily

Why isn't this arbitrary?

Because Lapsa said they were confirmed scum.

Anna that still seems somewhat arbitrary. Do you know what Lapsa's mindset is like or are you just rolling with the "confscum" angle?

After Lapsa's post, I re read Wolfie ISO and they scream scum

Anna that still seems somewhat arbitrary. Do you know what Lapsa's mindset is like or are you just rolling with the "confscum" angle?

After Lapsa's post, I re read Wolfie ISO and they scream scum

How, exactly?

They admitted that Quaroath was town as fact and they claimed doctor. They had very wishy washy voting and avoiding players questions.

She didn't claim doctor, and even if she did, why would that be scummy?
How is her vote wishy-washy?
Where did she avoid questions?
She hasn't said anything about Quaroath yet.

Is this why you're voting her?

Oh I thought they were an imaginary player.

OK, What even is all this? Do you have a point here or are you just being a troll?

[SilverWolf]

I didn't realize you were this terrible at reading me ika.

[SilverWolf]

I didn't realize you were this terrible at reading me ika.

your not doing anything to make me think any diffrent SW

Oh excuse me, the game's barely begun. You want me to start jumping through hoops? I'm already becoming annoyed at all the garbage scumreads with no reasoning. This kind of shit ruins games for me. I can't even say anything in response to any of it because it's crap or trolling or whatever the fuck it is.

[SilverWolf]

What Wake?

[SilverWolf]

I didn't realize you were this terrible at reading me ika.

your not doing anything to make me think any diffrent SW

Oh excuse me, the game's barely begun. You want me to start jumping through hoops? I'm already becoming annoyed at all the garbage scumreads with no reasoning. This kind of shit ruins games for me. I can't even say anything in response to any of it because it's crap or trolling or whatever the fuck it is.

yes i do want you to.

and the funniest thing is your gettting frustrated over nothing. As far as i knwo im the only person who has said such things so you getting frustrated over such simple thing only shows how easy it is to get to you regarless of alignment

You are not the only person to say such things. Read the thread. I respond a hell of a lot better when people engage me directly.

[SilverWolf]

Wolfie is very confident and competent as Town, and doesn't really get annoyed or upset.

She's vulnerable to the latter two when Scum. I want to know why ika thinks she's the same regardless of alignment.

Bullshit, You said this same crap last time you were scum in a game. I get frustrated as town all the time including offsite games that you modded.

You know better.

FoS Wake for your selective memory.

Anything else you want to talk to me about?

[SilverWolf]

I probably will after I get done talking to him. I want to hear his answer to that first. My votes already on a viable wagon.

[SilverWolf]

Wolfie is very confident and competent as Town, and doesn't really get annoyed or upset.

She's vulnerable to the latter two when Scum. I want to know why ika thinks she's the same regardless of alignment.

Bullshit, You said this same crap last time you were scum in a game. I get frustrated as town all the time including offsite games that you modded.

You know better.

FoS Wake for your selective memory.

Anything else you want to talk to me about?

I agree you get frustrated as town, but you usually don't get frustrated this quickly. Your reaction seems closer to you scum game than your town game.

This is also complete and total bullshit. You just got done playing with me in a scum game in 185. How quickly did it take me to get frustrated there? You should read 181 where I replaced out as town before D1 was over plus you've seen this offsite more than once.

Seems like you have a selective memory same as Wake. I expect this from people who don't know me but not from people who have played with me a lot. I fucking DESPISE being scumread for stupid shit when I'm town.

[SilverWolf]

Wolfie is very confident and competent as Town, and doesn't really get annoyed or upset.

She's vulnerable to the latter two when Scum. I want to know why ika thinks she's the same regardless of alignment.

Bullshit, You said this same crap last time you were scum in a game. I get frustrated as town all the time including offsite games that you modded.

You know better.

FoS Wake for your selective memory.

Anything else you want to talk to me about?

I suppose I could prescribe you some lorazepam, but I'm not sure you'd be accepting of it.

You do seem to be more confident and a strong Town player when Town. That much I know.

Never said you were immune to frustration and anger when Town, though.

Are personal comments like that really necessary Wake? Hmmm? The medication comment? Really?

[SilverWolf]

You know what. I'm stepping away now.

I'll be back tomorrow.

[SilverWolf]

[quote="In post 161, Wake88"

Haven't played in months.

Memory's a bit hazy.[/quote]

Then why the fuck did you say with such certainty that I don't get annoyed or upset as town but am vulnerable to both as scum if you don't even remember? You should know if you are scum trying to fabricate a scumread on me, that I will make you very sorry Wake.

Also, if I was scum wouldn't I just happily jump on the wagon? I don't see why scum would even try to discredit a wagon at all, unless they were defending a fellow scumpal. I also don't like voting on D1, just makes me uncomfortable, so there's a reason why I haven't voted Shinobi yet.

Well, I don't know how the hell you expect to figure out who is town or who is scum without voting and questioning people. And I have absolutely tried to discredit wagons as scum. Jumping on the wagon is actually kind of risky as scum and avoiding the wagon is far more damning.

Damn, I have a lot of scumreads in this game already.

[SilverWolf]

That's what I get for not previewing my posts first. Let me fix my last post.

[SilverWolf]

Haven't played in months.

Memory's a bit hazy.

Then why the fuck did you say with such certainty that I don't get annoyed or upset as town but am vulnerable to both as scum if you don't even remember? You should know if you are scum trying to fabricate a scumread on me, that I will make you very sorry Wake.

Also, if I was scum wouldn't I just happily jump on the wagon? I don't see why scum would even try to discredit a wagon at all, unless they were defending a fellow scumpal. I also don't like voting on D1, just makes me uncomfortable, so there's a reason why I haven't voted Shinobi yet.

Well, I don't know how the hell you expect to figure out who is town or who is scum without voting and questioning people. And I have absolutely tried to discredit wagons as scum. Jumping on the wagon is actually kind of risky as scum and avoiding the wagon is far more damning.

Damn, I have a lot of scumreads in this game already.

*This post is a fix for 169.

[SilverWolf]

...

OK

[SilverWolf]

Hi Kop. Hi Zebulin.

Join us why don't you?

[SilverWolf]

@Aero

Kind of nitpicky I know but I voted after Shinobi and before Quaroath on Red.

Hey, please do something with bacon next vc. Doesn't matter what just so long as it has some delicious looking, crispy bacon. mmmmmm......................bacon.

[SilverWolf]

Also, Red is town. Like, I'm basically going to confirm him as town for myself due to the fact that Nam replaced because I was in this game. He's never played with me before, so if he was scum, he would have thought I was an easy mislynch. I don't see that slot having a chance at being scum.

No he didn't. Aero said twice already that he was just joking. Are you reading.

186 is terrible. Everything he's scumreading me for is personality/playstyle shit and not scum indicative at all.

Super happy with my vote here.

[SilverWolf]

186 is terrible. Everything he's scumreading me for is personality/playstyle shit and not scum indicative at all.

how so

Read your post. Nothing in that is alignment indicative but you insist on using your personal opinion of my personality/playstyle to throw a scumread at me. I don't really give a fuck if you think my posts are uncalled for or if it's the mods job to prod or if I said I was going away and came back. Tell me how that is scum indicative in any way or show me how I don't do that shit in every game I play regardless. Your reasoning is terrible or you are trying to instigate shit because you are scum by focusing on the drama.

The fact that you concentrated solely on me and ignored anyone else on your wagon is a dead giveaway also.

[SilverWolf]

I said might be. I didn't vote for you for a reason. There isn't anything solid against you, but you look slightly suspicious. Not as suspicious as nosferatus (however it's spelled).

UNVOTE: redff
I don't really suspect redff of anything.

Something in these posts don't jive.

[SilverWolf]

186 is terrible. Everything he's scumreading me for is personality/playstyle shit and not scum indicative at all.

how so

Read your post. Nothing in that is alignment indicative but you insist on using your personal opinion of my personality/playstyle to throw a scumread at me. I don't really give a fuck if you think my posts are uncalled for or if it's the mods job to prod or if I said I was going away and came back. Tell me how that is scum indicative in any way or show me how I don't do that shit in every game I play regardless. Your reasoning is terrible or you are trying to instigate shit because you are scum by focusing on the drama.

The fact that you concentrated solely on me and ignored anyone else on your wagon is a dead giveaway also.

my wagon has nothing to do with my scumread on you. i guess we disagree on what is alignment indicative ay

my wagon is a random early day 1 bandwagon, they happen a lot i usually hop on them (not today obviously because the wagons on me)

Bullshit. If you were town, I'd expect you to examine the votes on your wagon whether it's a RVS quickwagon or not. For precisely the reason that scum jump on them because of the excuse of "well, it's a quickwagon so I don't need a reason and here's a way I can blend in" The fact that you are blowing it off is you just pretending to be cool with it to look like you are town and don't care. Scummy af. Sorry, but I think you replaced into a scumslot.

FUCK PEDIT

I said might be. I didn't vote for you for a reason. There isn't anything solid against you, but you look slightly suspicious. Not as suspicious as nosferatus (however it's spelled).

UNVOTE: redff
I don't really suspect redff of anything.

Something in these posts don't jive.

hey m8 i just said the exact same thing 6 posts before u, nice try tho

I said might be. I didn't vote for you for a reason. There isn't anything solid against you, but you look slightly suspicious. Not as suspicious as nosferatus (however it's spelled).

UNVOTE: redff
I don't really suspect redff of anything.

u go from finding me slightly suspicious to not suspecting me of anything wtf

Oh no, I repeated something similar to what you said in a fast moving large normal.

And no one else has done that right? What's your point? Your attacks on me are extremely weak and you are doing a terrible job of trying to establish any sort of credible scumread on me because there isn't one.

But nice try though.

Can we please lynch this scum today? He's so fucking obvious scum it hurts.

[SilverWolf]

The whole redff train seems like total bs, he said the post seemed forced, and was told that it was a quote from a previous game, why would anyone kepp a vote after that?

Possibly.
Do you have a better vote?

You for starting the train for no reason.

Why didn't you vote for Shinobi here?

^ Right here, I was asked why I didn't vote Shinobi. I never said that I was scumreading him.

My question was in response to 97. You straight up said Shinobi was a good vote for starting the wagon but didn't vote him. Now you said you were never scumreading him. You do understand how contradictory this is right?

[SilverWolf]

Yeah, Nosferatu looks like scum but so does Red and it kind of makes sense considering how strong of a reaction to Red's wagon Nosferatu had.

I don't usually do associations before flips but still, I'm at least going to make a note of it.

[SilverWolf]

Why don't you lynch me or Red to test that theory of yours?

Shinobi is nulltown btw, Red has actually said some scummy things lately so, he's nullscum for me rn.

I'm voting for Red and have been pushing him as scum for awhile now.

[SilverWolf]

Judging by the speed with which this wagon has had, I suspect Scum are on it, and favor it.

If the wagon was on Scum, do you think it'd be allowed to reach L-1/L-2 so quickly?

What? It wasn't anywhere near that. It had 7 votes out of 11 before Shinobi unvoted.

Please explain how this wagon is scum driven or is on town by:

-Who is scum on it and why?

-Why is Red town to you?

Also, what is your opinion of the cw on Nos and how does that relate to Red's alignment?

@Aero

-Red is voting for me.

[SilverWolf]

VOTE: wake

sheep me ppl

Can you please give me your reasons for thinking Wake is scum?

[SilverWolf]

I will repeat myself since people are clearly not reading. The wagon never got to L-1. The most it ever had was 7 out of 11 votes before Shinobi unvoted. If you think it's a shit wagon and the people on it are idiots, feel free to say why Red is town or who else is scum instead of complaining.

[SilverWolf]

wake is follwoing his scum meta.

Let's put some pressure on him then and see what happens.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Wake

What are YOUR reasons for thinking Wake is scum?

[SilverWolf]

i love SW trying to save her scum buddy

I thought you were better than this. You make me sad.

[SilverWolf]

i love SW trying to save her scum buddy

I thought you were better than this. You make me sad.

Its not sad when you FOS wake and then seem to be defending him now. its acutly quite funny

as for ebign better, i can be but i dont care enough in games

LOL, nope.

[SilverWolf]

wake is follwoing his scum meta.

Let's put some pressure on him then and see what happens.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Wake

What are YOUR reasons for thinking Wake is scum?

It's been a while since I played with Wake. I voted him because I want to put some pressure on him and see what happens. (You know, what I stated in the post you quoted.) You seem more defensive (angry?) than normal Wolfie. What gives?

Besides that one post where I was pissed at crappy scumreads thrown at me for no reason and where people who have played with me many times are lying about my meta, tell me again where I've been defensive and angry?

I want to know what you think about things. You asked ika what he thought about Wake and then sheeped his reasoning for voting him. I find that scummy. I also find it scummy when people deflect back onto me when I question them.

I really don't feel like obvtowning myself this game or explaining why I no longer think Wake is scum. Now, you do something to show me you are town instead of sheeping other people's reads and misreading me.

[SilverWolf]

Yeah I did because pisskop was lying about my meta and being a rude obnoxious jerk to me to try to push me into an emotional state. It's not an alignment tell for me to be bitchy in games.

Skybird has misrepped me twice already when she should know better and I consider that a slight scumtell coming from her.

[SilverWolf]

I agree you get frustrated as town, but you usually don't get frustrated this quickly. Your reaction seems closer to you scum game than your town game.

It's been a while since I played with Wake. I voted him because I want to put some pressure on him and see what happens. (You know, what I stated in the post you quoted.) You seem more defensive (angry?) than normal Wolfie. What gives?

First post is her saying me getting frustrated quickly in a game is closer to my scum game. That's a lie. In 185 I was pretty calm and easygoing much of the game until the end. She was a player in that game and has played in many a town game with me when I've gotten frustrated. That's a deliberate misrep and I want her to explain it.

The second one is her sheeping others reasoning for a vote, and deflecting back onto me when I question her and trying to put me on the defensive which is scumplay 101 and not the town Skybird I know.

pedit: I can only vote one person at a time ika. Skybird is a FoS but Red is scummier and I want him lynched.

What? OK, which is it? Me getting defensive and angry makes me scum or not? You just pointed out how I did not do that in my last scum game until the end of the game but at the same time you are implying that I'm doing it here so it's scummy.

Make up your mind ika.

Also, You've been outright calling me scum all game.

Why are you not voting for me?

[SilverWolf]

Yeah, well I invite anyone to actually meta me and figure it out for themselves.

I have quite a few town and scum games here now.

And BTW, I am perfectly capable of changing my meta. I did it in 180 quite convincingly. Like I said, I'm not interested in obvtowning myself this game.

It's too much work and I've found a waste of time since I've been losing a lot of my town games lately.

[SilverWolf]

I don't think Wake is scum per interactions with me.

[SilverWolf]

So? 185 was multiball where there was an Sk and another 3 person scumteam. I didn't know who any of them were. I only knew my two scummates. What difference does me knowing or not knowing who the scum are make when it comes to my frustration level in games? That makes zero sense ika.

[SilverWolf]

So? 185 was multiball where there was an Sk and another 3 person scumteam. I didn't know who any of them were. I only knew my two scummates. What difference does me knowing or not knowing who the scum are make when it comes to my frustration level in games? That makes zero sense ika.

Cus you have a diffrent set of frustration as town and scum like i have been saying forever

You make zero sense.

I don't even......................................

[SilverWolf]

Anyway, I still don't get how you are so set on me being scum and yet are still calling for Wake's head.

Why don't you engage him like this?

[SilverWolf]

Anyway, I still don't get how you are so set on me being scum and yet are still calling for Wake's head.

Why don't you engage him like this?

did i ever say wake was town?

if you were reading me you would see that i think hes also scum

Where did I ever say you said Wake was town?

I am reading you. I think you are town because as scum you usually don't give a fuck about the game and here you are putting in an effort to get reads and interact with me.

My question was, why aren't you interacting with Wake since he's the person you are voting for and trying to lynch right now?

[SilverWolf]

Oh god game going so fast already.
VOTE: boon

You know you want to vote him.

UNVOTE: boon
VOTE: redff
Why not

UNVOTE:
VOTE: texcat

Don't buy the sal vote.

This is an FoS as well BTW.

[SilverWolf]

LOL at Skybird calling me angry and defensive over nothing and then getting angry and defensive at me over nothing.

That's pretty good. I needed the laugh.

Guess what, my friend, I'm town here as well and I never like it when people are calling me scum for no reason or crappy reasons.

Do you think me being angry and defensive is scummy? Is it scummy when you do it?

Cuz right now, you are most definitely doing it. I guess you know how I've been feeling so far and guess what? You only have one person calling you scum.

And LOL at getting mad at me for asking you why you are voting for someone. Sorry, but that's how the game works. You know that as well as I do.

So is frustration/anger, being defensive a scumtell or not?

Also, I damn well will be more than happy to say you are misrepping me if you are.

[SilverWolf]

Yeah, well I invite anyone to actually meta me and figure it out for themselves.

I have quite a few town and scum games here now.

And BTW, I am perfectly capable of changing my meta. I did it in 180 quite convincingly. Like I said, I'm not interested in obvtowning myself this game.

It's too much work and I've found a waste of time since I've been losing a lot of my town games lately.

Why invite people to meta you when you turn around and say you are quite capable of changing your meta?

Because I'm being attacked due to meta.

[SilverWolf]

Oh and Skbird-You can't get mad at me for so called ruining your reaction test to Wake because you basically told him you were doing that when you made your vote. So that's on you, not me.

[SilverWolf]

wake is follwoing his scum meta.

Let's put some pressure on him then and see what happens.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Wake

I do know you get bitchy/upset/angry in every game you play.

OK, See your vote for Wake? You said it was pressure. Now, you are blaming me for ruining your pressure vote.

You just said I get frustrated/angry/upset in every game I play, rightly or not, and but you keep calling it out and acting like it's unusual for me.

pedit: Neat, go ahead and FoS me for something you say I do all the time as either alignment. That's not contradictory at all. Nope. LOL

[SilverWolf]

Oh and Skbird-You can't get mad at me for so called ruining your reaction test to Wake because you basically told him you were doing that when you made your vote. So that's on you, not me.

And if I told you I had reasons but didn't want to say you would have done what, exactly?

Moved on.

[SilverWolf]

Again, Red's wagon was NOT close to going through. Also, he's now saying I'm scummy for "defending Wake" a person he has never once expressed any suspicion of in this game at all which is just plain bad reasoning. His reaction yesterday to his wagon was to blow it off 224. I called him out on that here 239 and today it's an issue. That shows me he is concerned about how he looks and going with the numerous comments saying his wagon was close to lynch when it wasn't.

Nosferatu is also scum for his behavior around the Red wagon calling Shinobi out and saying the reasons are terrible, then saying Sal's reasons are understandable, then voting back on the wagon, and now unvoting for no reason. This is scum not knowing how to deal with the wagon.

greyfoxxxx's VT claim for no reason was horrendous and his vote for Texcat sucked and so do his other votes. He's likely scum as well.

I'm fine with lynching any of these three today.

[SilverWolf]

I'm sorta feeling scum SW, for bringing up the whole meta argument, and then getting pissed and defensive and claiming she can change her own meta when she's accused using meta as a central argument.

What in the world is this?

You know what? I've had it with this game. I'm sick to fucking death of it.

[SilverWolf]

Fuck off, how's that?

[SilverWolf]

Good pagetop.

[SilverWolf]

@Aero

Replace out please.

[SilverWolf]

I have asked the mod to stay in the game, since he hasn't replaced me yet, I'm assuming it is o.k. I feel like I've been completely smeared and misrepped since I asked to replace and I really don't appreciate it at all and I feel like the people doing it are scum or really bad town who know better. Probably scum.

T S O is scum and Skybird is likely scum. I do not replace out as scum. They are making it sound like that's a tactic with me when I have a town games I've replaced out of as well, one of which T S O was in and for some reason decided not to mention.

If you read that Sweet Dreams game you will see that I had other issues going on that I talked to the mod privately about and he was the one who reached out to me and asked if I needed to replace. I discussed my reasons post game. The game T S O linked was a Team Mafia game and him trying to say that's my scum meta when he played with me in both 180 and 185 where he's seen a ton of my scum meta and using the team mafia game to say I was caught was a joke. And yeah I was scum but I literally had 2 fucking posts in that game and yes, I replaced. Aero, T S O, and cabd were in the team mafia PT with me, which unfortunately never got released and I no longer have access to but they know my reasons for replacing there. I was not going to be able to put the time and energy into that game and I was trying to avoid hurting my team mafia team and the scum team. I also V/LA'd in my two other games one of which was a town game and one of which was a scum game.

I've also replaced in some town games.

Here's the most recent one which was a rage quit because two people decided to use my ban against me. I was town here. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=62627

Here's another town replace due to being too busy. I actually stayed in a scum game I was in because I had more invested in that one and left the one I was in the least which was town http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=59485

I also have about 25 games, about a third of them scum, that I never replaced out of.

I am really irritated that Skybird is trying to insinuate I replace out as scum like that's some sort of tactic of mine.

I am really irritated that T S O is completely misrepping my scum meta and my replace out in Team Mafia. His whole attitude this game reeks of his scum game of which I've seen twice now.

Also, ika's being bad as well. His latest list shows he has me as his main scumread. But he's voting for someone he's ignoring. His not giving a shit is typical for him. More so as scum but not uncommon as town.

I also have zero problems with Lapsa's vote because he has the experience with me in Sweet Dreams.

I agree with Quaroath that greyfox is playing like scum and he's right that people are ignoring his meta while concentrating on mine.

Mahonster is correct that I was trying something new this game. Yes Skybird, I can change my meta but meta is being used to scumread me this game so I'm sure as hell going to use it to defend myself.

Can anyone possibly look at my statement's and read further into them?

When I say I don't want to obvtown myself like I have in other games, why do you think that is?

When I say Wake isn't scum due to interactions with me, did anyone check our interactions? No, ika just assumed I was incompetent as scum and that Wake and I were scum together and that I'd be stupid enough to jump on people when he had only two votes and others had a lot more and paint all kinds of associatives because apparently I'm super naive and don't know that would be ridiculously stupid play if we were scum together. And ika drawing associatives right now is super bad

Bottom line some people are playing like shit and the game is largely inactive as there are many who have barely contributed or not at all.

Shinobi is town. I feel pretty good about that. Wake is town. I feel pretty good about that. I think Texcat is town but it's a weaker read. greayfoxx and T S O are scum and I have a weaker scum read on Skybird

Everyone else I need to check into a lot more but I want the mod to verify I can stay and re-send my role PM before doing anything else.



VOTE: T S O

[SilverWolf]

Oh, here is the town game I replaced out of that T S O was in: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=60825

That was a rage quit too.

And here's another scum replace because I was in too many games and couldn't keep up with it and had to let go of the one game where I had the least posts.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=61037

So now, you've seen where I've replaced out 3 times as scum and 3 times as town.

I've also played 25 other games, a third of which were scum, where I didn't.

Sorry for the previous wall. I had a lot to say after I read this game and saw the attacks.

[SilverWolf]

Oh and T S O saying Red is town because I was pushing him and Skybird saying Annadog is bussing me because he RVS said I was scum is both laughable and really super bad. Both of them are better players than this which is another reason I think they are likely scum.

I really hope these posts are o.k. I didn't seen my slot in the replacement queue either and I've sent PM's to both Aero and Cheetory.

If they are not, I'm really sorry for being a huge distraction but I was pretty unhappy to see the tactics being used and I didn't even have a replacement in here to speak for this slot while it was being ripped apart like that. Most of the attacks were about me and my play as well which is super unfair for a replacement to deal with.

Even if I end up getting lynched for this, at least my flip can be useful going forward and I'd rather it's me than some replacement having to deal with my crap.

[SilverWolf]

I don't make it easy for scum to mislynch me. If I do act scummy or whatever and they jump on me like that, I will make sure it is pointed out. I'm not trying to brag or say I'm some great player or anything. I just have gotten better at recognizing when scum is trying to fabricate a scumread because I've had it done to me before and have done it myself as scum many times. And one of the things I would most definitely do as scum, is selectively point out the things about me that T S O did here to paint me as scum. Now, town can do that too but it just feels like a scum push from T S O. I'd be interested to hear his response to all of this now.

[SilverWolf]

I generally don't put much stock in people saying they are town. They have to show it for me to believe it. Read my last 4 posts which should clearly lay out my scumread on T S O. Some of this is just a gut feeling but I feel pretty confident in my read on him right now.

[SilverWolf]

I don't make it easy for scum to mislynch me. If I do act scummy or whatever and they jump on me like that, I will make sure it is pointed out. I'm not trying to brag or say I'm some great player or anything. I just have gotten better at recognizing when scum is trying to fabricate a scumread because I've had it done to me before and have done it myself as scum many times. And one of the things I would most definitely do as scum, is selectively point out the things about me that T S O did here to paint me as scum. Now, town can do that too but it just feels like a scum push from T S O. I'd be interested to hear his response to all of this now.

Firstly, just call me TSO. The spaces were required in my username, but there's really no need.

When you say "If I act scummy and people attack me for it, I'll point it out", this sounds like another way of saying that you have no problem OMGUS'ing if you have to. I can remember exactly one time when you replaced out. That was Team Mafia. When Nacho caught you early, you replaced out. In NY 180, when you were universally townread as scum, you did not replace out early. So the pattern is that you don't like early pressure as scum. Your anger in this game has also been irrational. This isn't an opinion, this is a fact - there isn't basis for it. Ika also provided scum meta of you replacing out, I have scum meta of you replacing out, you seem to be faking emotions for unknown reasons. So when I see you come under pressure, fake anger and replace out, it's pretty basic logic to conclude you're probably scum.

I think, if you are town, you should probably take a look at the people voting with you. I've been pushing Lapsa-scum for a while, and I've explained it. His scumread of me magically appeared out of nowhere in response to this, and he certainly hasn't explained it. You have GrayFoxxx, who is apparently a decent town player, and who I know lurks and plays mediocrely as scum. He is lurking and playing mediocrely here. I have no idea what Shinobi is doing, I don't think Shinobi knows what Shinobi is doing.

This whole thing feels like you're particularly annoyed that I'm calling you scum, and you really want to me to be scum. That's understandable, but it's not going to catch many scum.

That's fair that I don't like early pressure as scum. I don't like it as town either. I feel like you were incomplete and very selective in what you decided to use to call me scum and I feel like I had to fill in the blanks because there's plenty of evidence showing I've acted this way as town. It's not behavior I'm particularly proud of at all. I don't like getting emotional in games but it's a complete null tell for me and not scum.

I also feel like your blustery comments saying, "yes, yes we know SW is scum" and similar statements were exactly like you behaved in 180 trying to mislynch Marquis. I know you are more engaged in your scum games because in 185 you were town and barely played. Although you were killed off early there.

I don't fake emotions ever. If I have them they are real. Full stop.

I mean, the things you are using to call me scum are incredibly tenuous. You link a game that I barely played before also replacing out of as evidence that I've seen you replace out as town? Then you link another game where you've replaced out as scum that I wasn't in? And this is why you're voting me? Please.

Nope, I felt like your scumread on me was fabricated and I had some gut and meta stuff also. That's why.

[SilverWolf]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: TSO

I think an explanation from you on this vote would be particularly helpful right now. Please provide one.

[SilverWolf]

What does YMMV mean? I'm too lazy to go look it up.

[SilverWolf]

I'm going to go ahead and out something now. Anna and I are in a neighborhood together. In the neighborhood Anna is saying she wants to lynch you. That's in post 6 so after the game you will see the proof of that statement. I suspect there are other neighborhoods. Her behavior there is also part of my scum read on her.

Skybird-As soon as the mod resends me my role PM, I want to ask you more about your neighborhood. Please remind me later or tomorrow. I need to see something first though.

[SilverWolf]

@Aero

-check your inbox

[SilverWolf]

Skybird-I'm just waiting for Aero to read my PM asking for my role PM. He can ignore the whining about wanting to come back to the game and just send the role PM. I deleted it in a fit of pissiness when I decided to replace out and also un-preinned from other games I was invited to at the same time cuz I'm having a bad time and it's best if I just do this one and hopefully calm down and play better.

TSO-I'll look at your games. That one post where you were explaining why you think I don't like pressure as scum and why you thought that made me scum was actually fair. I also remember voting you in Delicious and you talking your way out of it but House and Bookitty did the same thing to me. I sucked in that game sticking with my scumreads so I don't want to move on until I'm sure. I really felt you were scum here with your push on me. It seemed opportunistic after I replaced. If I can get past it and think you are town or at least not scum, I can consider voting grayfoxxxx.

Wake-If you think TSO needs pressure, why are you not voting for him?

Anna-why did you tell Skybird you wanted to lynch me?

Lapsa acts weird as town and has no scum meta. Read that Sweet Dreams game. It's not unusual to have a hard time understanding him. He reminds me of Boon. I need time to figure him out. I am going to do with him what I decided to do with Boon and just null read for D1.

[SilverWolf]

ika is probably town, this seems like ika town but it's ika uncooperative town when I'm used to ika nicer/trying to figure things out town-I don't know why he's doing it and tbh, I don't care. I've decided to not address it further or engage him while he's acting that way. As long as I can maintain a townread on him, I'll leave it alone. If it changes, I'll address this again.

[SilverWolf]

Silverwolf

———

Respectfully, I'll vote for TSO if and when I wish to.

I don't care if you vote for him or not. You said he needs votes/pressure so I was asking why you think that but aren't going to vote it. That was my question. Why?

However, you are voting for Nos. Do you think Nos is scum and why?

I go back and forth on Nos, sometimes I think he's scum and sometimes I think he's not giving a fuck town. idk here so if you have an opinion on this, or his wagon, that would be great to hear.

[SilverWolf]

Would you be willing to provide links to your latest scum games, Wolfie?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=61824

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=60652

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=60334

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=59865


These are just the ones I remember off the top of my head and haven't been linked already. I think I have a few more if you really need them I can pull. I would just have to go look at my topics.

I don't really have a wiki yet.

[SilverWolf]

I have great respect for SW's play as both town and scum. I can't always tell the difference between town and scum games. If she is town, it is definitely worthwhile keeping her in the game.

Thanks Skybird.

[SilverWolf]

Welcome Fro99er!!

[SilverWolf]

Because I do not know if she is Scum, and I'd rather search through her scum games because there may be slight hints in there that could be used here, to better discern if she's scum or not.

This looks like selective meta hunting.

I would think to get a complete picture, you would want to see town games as well.

[SilverWolf]

Things I don't understand:
1. A whole lot of people expressed suspicion of Wolfie.

Wolfie

, why did you decide that TSO was the scum out of the bunch?

It was mostly his behavior around the pressure on me and my replace request. It felt like a scum push to me on an easy target that already had a lot of pressure and a way to set up a scumread before the replacement could even get into the game. He was also selective in what he picked out to scumread me for-this point has been nullified after he explained it better. Some of it is gut, paranoia, and meta as well. I've explained it in more detail in some of my posts after I came back to the game.

[SilverWolf]

I think I just figured something out.

UNVOTE:

I am going to re-ISO some people I don't have reads on and vote again tomorrow. I need to re-read a few things.

[SilverWolf]

I would vote for grayfoxxxx right now but he's not here and I don't know how much good it would do unless we are ready to lynch him. He's very inactive unfortunately.

[SilverWolf]

Things I don't understand:


4.

Skybird

, can you shed any light on Anna's thinking that Wolfie was not a real player? I didn't understand her sheeping of Lapsa and the doc claim from someone, I'm not even sure whom. When she said in the hood that she wanted to lynch Wolfie, was that before or after it was pointed out that Wolfie was a real player? Her sheep of Ika with the picture of the sheep was sort of funny, but I'm not sure it was very townie.

I really can't shed any light on this because it was really weird to me. I felt she was voting SW for real and I totally missed she thought SW was a fake player until she mentioned it. I did go look at some of her other games to try and get a better read on her. I looked at a newbie game she was in (1612 take 2) and one that is on-going so I can't say anything about that one. But in the newbie game she posted in a much more normal fashion, though was still a little off-beat. She was town in that one.

I'm just guessing here. I have no idea how to read Anna. Is it at all possible she didn't see a player named Wolfie on the playerlist?

I mean, that's the exact reason I put it in my signature because quite a few people call me Wolfie from USMB and here now that it is just best if I put that there so it doesn't confuse anyone. BUT, some people have sigs turned off so maybe?

I mean, this might clear up a lot of confusion people are having around this issue. I have quite a few people I need to look into more ISO and meta and Anna is one of them.

How much have you guys chatted in your hood?

[SilverWolf]

I would vote for grayfoxxxx right now but he's not here and I don't know how much good it would do unless we are ready to lynch him. He's very inactive unfortunately.

...

Hm....

...

Can't tell for sure...

Hm....

I'm not scum Wake. Not this game. Try to dial back the paranoia a touch will ya?

Sheesh................

[SilverWolf]

ika-because I've had time to cool off and am in a calmer mood and Wake's paranoia doesn't bother me right now

Shinobi-do you think he will respond the votes/wagon if we vote him up and start playing better? I haven't gotten any indication from him that he even gives a shit.

[SilverWolf]

Good point.

VOTE: grayfoxxxx

[SilverWolf]

grayfoxxxx-my vote on you is purely for pressure and to get you to contribute so I can read you, please post more and give us thoughts on the gamestate and reads

Also, it sure as hell doesn't help that none of your votes are explained. Please explain them all.

[SilverWolf]

OK, Well if you can give some reads, thoughts on the game that would help.

I consider speedlynching very anti-town. I see zero benefit to it. Information gained in the first days is extremely useful late game.

pedit: large's are like this, I've played in some that have gone to 70 or 100 pages first day which I agree is a lot, but there's 21 people and they all should be talking at least some, therefore early game=lots of pages and fast moving, it will slow considerably when there are less players

[SilverWolf]

Also, FYI RedFF has been posting in another game and avoiding this one. Re-ISOing and I can still see why I was scumreading him.

Nos-Who is your biggest scumread right now? I don't like your ISO either.

[SilverWolf]

Sure Oz:

RedFF: Posting elsewhere and avoiding here-I consider this a slight scumtell.

I still don't like his Lapsa vote and unvote which I've explained.

His vote on me is entirely personality based and OMGUS.

He said he didn't care about his wagon, I called him out on it by saying town would examine the wagon, he comes back and does that in a super superficial way-he called out Sal's vote but didn't say he was a scumread for example.

Also, he very lazily sheeped ika's I'm defending Wake to scumread me for it when he never even suspected Wake-it's like he was looking for an excuse.

I don't like how his wagon dissolved and people were unvoting or voting elsewhere or saying it had to be a town wagon because it got to L-1 so quickly when clearly it never got close to that. I felt like all those comments and vote switches completely removed the pressure from Red before I could even get a chance to figure out if my scumread was correct or not and since the pressure has eased, he's away from the thread.

[SilverWolf]

silverwolf is clearly an attention craving drama queen, feel like my read on her is clouded by that
@wolfie im not talking about ongoing games and u shouldnt be either

You don't know me at all. DO NOT make personal attacks and name calling like this again or I will report you to the mod.

I absolutely can post that you are posting in another game and not here as long as I don't say what is in that game.

I love how you post the minute I make a post about you when you haven't bothered with this game in days.

Your opinion of me on a personal level, is not relevant at all and you have a habit of insulting people in games. Knock it off.

[SilverWolf]

Oz-on Nos the biggest problem I have with him is his contradictory behavior on the Red wagon which I've explained and that his ISO is very shallow. He has no strong opinions on anyone and seems to be playing it safe and going with the flow.

I am shit at reading people like anna, Lapsa, and Boon early game-I really don't have much of an opinion right now on them.

I think I've given an opinion on most everyone else and if I haven't, it's because you've made no opinion on me and that's not good.

[SilverWolf]

@Aero

-psure Wake is voting TSO

Also-please put some sort of fruit smoothie in the food queue

Thanks

[SilverWolf]

I like Nos' 737. Spiffeh looks town.

idk, Who's scum guys?

mahonster-I'd love to hear more from you, I know you are capable of it, what do you think?

[SilverWolf]

Kop 519 is IIoA, a few posts on how you don't like turbolynching, a question to gray about his votes, a question to mah that doesn't tell us much, and a meta question to gray.

This is looking more like your scum game then your town game.

Have you fully caught up and do you have any reads or opinions on things?

As I side note, I had no idea what topkek meant before this game.

[SilverWolf]

31 pages guys? Really?

Have you ever played in a Large Normal before?

[SilverWolf]

I like Nos' 737.

Really? It reads like he's hedging every read he has.

Fair point, he does have a lot of nulls. I though his points on Anna matched up with my own pretty well and he finally gave some reads and thoughts on the game. No, I don't townread off of one post but it wasn't a bad post, IMO.

31 pages guys? Really?

Have you ever played in a Large Normal before?

How many town wins are there in a Large normal?

I don't know. I haven't done stats. Town won in 185, lost in 180-the two recent ones I am in. I guess I should of asked how helpful do you think it is to cut conversation short and speedlynch people and/or complain about how many pages there are or ask for a speedlynch over and over which also clogs up the game and is anti-town and unhelpful? Like I've already said, I think this kind of info. can be helpful later in the game. Wagon analysis, voting, reads flipped players have given, associative tells, etc so we need to talk at least some.

[SilverWolf]

Like, why even join a Large Normal if all you are going to do is complain about how long it is and say you are only going to post when we can get a speed lynch and otherwise you are not even going to read the game? Why put post after post in this game saying that shit?

Go join a micro game and replace out so someone who isn't going to complain and play anti-town can replace in.

[SilverWolf]

Like, why even join a Large Normal if all you are going to do is complain about how long it is and say you are only going to post when we can get a speed lynch and otherwise you are not even going to read the game? Why put post after post in this game saying that shit?

Go join a micro game and replace out so someone who isn't going to complain and play anti-town can replace in.

So you personally think that 30 pages of information isnt enough to work with and want to run more pages of "information" instead of flipping something?

I mean, fucking lynch me if it means you can anaylize the flips tomorrow and get scum.

Nope, it isn't the number of pages. It's what people say. I don't have shit for a read on Kop cuz he's a lurksack that's done nothing. I don't have much of a read on Frogger because he's still catching up. I've asked mahonster to post more. Gray says he's going to post more. I have no read on Boon but I know enough not to expect one one D1. We have 21 people in this game and I'd like to not end D1 until they've all gotten to speak.

Yeah, we can lynch you and what will that tell us? Who was pushing you? Not if you are asking to be lynched. Who voted you and why? Not if you are asking to be lynched. It tells us nothing.

Anyway, I'm not getting bogged down in theory talk.

[SilverWolf]

Ozgin-no fun being scumread for lame shit is it? Tell me about it.

On that note, do you have any reads right now?

[SilverWolf]

I assumed you put that list there Ozgin because you are a friend to a few of us and I took it as someone who wants to be considerate of when he won't be here while at the same time talking to his friends about his life. I read it as null completely.

I also read your "fear" of TSO as a joke response to 180 where you faced off against him and he got you to vote yourself out of the game and out yourself as scum while he was the SK. LOL

Also, null.

tbh Ozgin-I am null reading you right now so hopefully that changes soon but I don't think your V/LA or your TSO comments are alignment indicative at all.

I feel like Frogger is really reaching with that one. I also feel like he's reaching by calling out Texcat for using FoS this game when he didn't in a past town game. I sometimes use it. I sometimes don't. I can't see reading this as anything other than null.

Again, really reachy stuff there.

Kind of gives me the heebie geebies.

[SilverWolf]

I'm tempted to townread red for insulting SilverWolf because he's likelier to not give a fuck as town rather than scum.

I completely disagree. I've seen scum get nasty before. Especially when pushed.

[SilverWolf]

I remember him claiming vig in the hood and telling me TSO was the SK. That was fun.

[SilverWolf]

Yeah, if someone else votes Grayfoxxxx, keep in mind that would put him to L-2 and ika and boon can finish him off. Make sure you are ready for the day to end if you decide to vote him.

[SilverWolf]

I find it interesting that the only people who talk with fond memories of that game are the scumteam or SK. Everyone else wants to pretend it doesn't exist.

[SilverWolf]

Do you have a better scumread Mahonster? You and Quaroath I'd like to hear more from.

[SilverWolf]

What do you think of Quaroath, like last game or not?

[SilverWolf]

Why did you unvote Red?

[SilverWolf]

I'm tempted to townread red for insulting SilverWolf because he's likelier to not give a fuck as town rather than scum.

I completely disagree. I've seen scum get nasty before. Especially when pushed.

except u had already 'replaced' out the game, so i wasn't really getting pushed was I?
i dont think my comment about your replacement fake out was particularly 'nasty', i find your continuous attempts to victimize yourself to be suspicious behavior
your overly emotional play as well as the fact that you have 30 more posts than anyone else at this point is distracting from scumhunting imo

Yeah, you personally insulted me after I put a post here saying you were scum for posting elsewhere while avoiding this game among other things I scumread you for. I was back in the game and pushing you so your reasoning doesn't hold water.

I am not victimizing myself by saying scum can get nasty when pushed and that you absolutely insulted me for no reason. If you think me posting a lot and being emotional is distraction, I find your insults and complaints about my play equally so as they are not relevant and remind me of someone who is looking for a fight.

There is nothing wrong with my posting frequency and I feel like you are just complaining to complain.

Do something productive instead of bitching about me which does nothing but make you look extremely petty and childish.

[SilverWolf]

Fine, you and boon can kill Gray and I'll just check out of this game then.

[SilverWolf]

UNVOTE:

[SilverWolf]

VOTE: Salamnece20

[SilverWolf]

My vote is purely advocating a PL on Salamence20.

Just an FYI.

[SilverWolf]

I hate this game.

[SilverWolf]

You spend 30+ pages and want to result to "policy"?

Ok. 10/10,

youre definatley helping town

.

This is really rich coming from you.

[SilverWolf]

You act like this is something unusual for form mafia at mafiascum and especially in a Large.

[SilverWolf]

Here is where I think the scum is:

-Nosferatu, redFF, Lapsa, Frogger, Ozgin, Kop, Quaroath

I believe this group will give us most, if not all of them.

-Nosferatu: Has done nothing all game but make aimless comments and has pretty much zero scumhunting in his ISO

-redFF is going after an easy mark with Anna while at the same time slinging arrows at me for no reason

-Lapsa's recent vote on the Gray wagon was absolute shit and he's done nothing but troll

-Frogger's scumreads are very weak with really bad reasoning

-Ozgin is not scumhunting or doing reads like he did in 185 but looks more like 180 with his play so far

-Kop has only 12 posts with no votes or any real scumhunting this game at all

-Quaroath only has 9 posts and is basically a non-entity

There ya go guys: My scum picks for this game. I would be willing to add Boon to this list if he doesn't do anything D2. I'd be willing to add Salamence in due to the complete over-reaction to my call for a PL but I'm not sure scum would be making such a complete spectacle of themselves like he has all game. My PL comments were a reaction test and I'm meh about his reaction.

I do not think anyone I haven't mentioned here has much of a chance of flipping scum.

[SilverWolf]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Ozgin

[SilverWolf]

Actually Lapsa, I don't care anymore. I have lost all interest in this game.

The following neighorhoods are in the game:

• Northeast Common-Room
• Southwest Corridors
• Orchard Hall
• The Penthouse (Off Limits)

I have the ability to visit one of these each night except The Penthouse. I can get access to the PT and ask questions through the mod if I want to.

The official role is called Town Neighborhood Inspector. I believe this role was put in the game because the neighborhoods are going to be key to finding scum. If they were all town, I don't think the mod would bother with this.

I'm guessing The Penthouse is a neighborizer hood possibly but I'm not sure why it can't be visited.

I'm probably not going to post much more in this game for the rest of D1 unless someone has a specific question for me or to move my vote to help us avoid a NL situation.

Unfortunately, this game has not been fun for me in any way and I'm done with it for now. I may get interested again, but it depends on how the players decide to play. If it is just going to be anti-town crap, trolling, insults, complaints, etc. then I'll be gone. Frankly, I have better things to do with my time.

[SilverWolf]

But whatever, can you prematurely claim scum again?

So, I feel like I have to point out this was in reference to my previous ban. I have zero issues with his other anger/insults because it was heat of the moment and anyone can do that but I do have a problem with this.

There is a line and I feel like this crossed it.

[SilverWolf]

@Aero

-Are you going to change the deadline to make up for the time the thread was closed?

[SilverWolf]

Why would a Mafia PT be called the Penthouse, and why would a claimed Town PR be allowed to ask questions there through the Mod?

I can't visit the Penthouse or ask questions there.

[SilverWolf]

Well, I just can't believe any mod would give me the name of the ScumPT and say I can't visit.

Do you guys have any idea how close to game breaking that would be?

[SilverWolf]

Why would a Mafia PT be called the Penthouse, and why would a claimed Town PR be allowed to ask questions there through the Mod?

I can't visit the Penthouse or ask questions there.

OK.

Do you assume the Penthouse must be a Scum PT?

Because I don't think we should assume that just yet.

It could be a design to throw us off, and make us think it must be a Scum PT. Remember that one game where I put you in a hood with three other Scum? Something tricky like that.

I don't assume it's the ScumPT.

My role PM said I know of the existence of all the neighborhoods in the game and listed those 4.

I assume they are all neighborhoods.

I believe me not being able to visit that one is a check on my role for some reason that will become evident at some point in the game.

[SilverWolf]

Silver for some reason thinks his role is OP.

Someone please tell him hes not. Just because he knows the NAME of the PTs doesnt mean he knows what they are or their meaning to the gamestate.

However, outting that made Wake defensive over the locked hood, which makes it seem like he may be mafia in the locked thread

I am a she and if I thought I was OP, I wouldn't have outed. I think the fact that I can't access the 4th hood is because it would provide me with more information that I should have.

[SilverWolf]

Aero is the mod. Cheet and Vetrock are co-mods.

[SilverWolf]

This PR isnt something mafia care about today.

Someone ask areo the definition of Neighborhoods

Why would mafia not care about this PR? Would you like to elaborate your point here, because as far as I think about SW role, surely with her questions to the mod, she can gain information, to something that mafia won't want her to get, or am I barking up the wrong tree here?

Not TO the mod. THROUGH the mod. It's just a way to talk in the hoods without them knowing who I am. If they were all town hoods, why would that matter?

When I was scum in 185 we all had access to the hoods because there was a member in each. So we all knew who was in what hood, names of hoods, what was said in hoods. We could see who town was suspecting, pick up PR hints, find out what was being said about each one of us and bring it back to the Scum PT. In 180 Ozgin, myself, and Aero all manipulated neighborhoods to our advantage. The only time I have not wanted neighborhoods outed is when I've been scum.

More information is good for town. Scum has a good chance of already knowing what I know. Now, town knows it too.

[SilverWolf]

This PR isnt something mafia care about today.

Someone ask areo the definition of Neighborhoods

Why would mafia not care about this PR? Would you like to elaborate your point here, because as far as I think about SW role, surely with her questions to the mod, she can gain information, to something that mafia won't want her to get, or am I barking up the wrong tree here?

Not TO the mod. THROUGH the mod. It's just a way to talk in the hoods without them knowing who I am. If they were all town hoods, why would that matter?

When I was scum in 185 we all had access to the hoods because there was a member in each. So we all knew who was in what hood, names of hoods, what was said in hoods. We could see who town was suspecting, pick up PR hints, find out what was being said about each one of us and bring it back to the Scum PT. In 180 Ozgin, myself, and Aero all manipulated neighborhoods to our advantage. The only time I have not wanted neighborhoods outed is when I've been scum.

More information is good for town. Scum has a good chance of already knowing what I know. Now, town knows it too.

Isn't it true that a Scum player could be given the same exact ability?

I am not saying you are Scum. I am saying your role claim does not automatically confirm you as Town.

No it doesn't. But I'm not sure I'm liking how worried you are about this info. getting out or casting doubt on me when I want it to be outed.

We should be selective on what we reveal and what we don't about the hoods to a certain extent sure.

I do think my role, and the fact that I could remain anonymous means they are not all town. I have the word inspector in my role.

[SilverWolf]

...

...I said your claim does not automatically confirm you as Town—and it does not—and in your response you mention how you don't like how I'm supposedly worried about this info getting out.

Also said is you saying I'm casting doubt on you.

Am I casting doubt on you when I state the truth, that your claim can't auto-confirm you as Town?

You agree with me. You just said so. How is that then doubtcasting?

My belief, as an honest member of Town, is that members of Town should reveal nothing regarding their specific roles unless they're at L-1 and someone has claimed intent to hammer. That has and always has been my stance.

What I don't like is how some players here are trying so carefully to twist that. There's no getting around it. Doing that is not good for Town, and it gives info to Scum. That's not me being worried Scum, that's me being Town saying 'hey, you're helping Scum by revealing role information.' Why do you think Scum in general try to pry information out of players as to what they are power-wise?

There do exist roles in normal games that at face value sound Townish, but can be utilized by Scum. Mafia Doctor, Mafia Tracker, Mafia Role Cop, Mafia Inspector? Whether the game is single or multiball, it is indeed possible that Scum could have that power role. Just the possibility is what I'm pointing out to stifle rampant assumption. Whether you are Scum or Town I do not know, and your PR revelation doesn't really sway my mind on it one way or another. That's just how I honestly feel at the moment.

Wake-You earlier said I will now be a target for scum. You go from that to saying I could be scum with this role.

If I were scum with this role, I would in no way shape or form, share what I know with town.

I would keep this to myself, investigate the hoods, and share what I know with my scumbuddies in the ScumPT and in no way shape or form would I put it out in the thread. I disagree with you about being so secretive. More info. is good for town. It just depends on how you want to use it.

This is a town role Wake, but now I'm not so sure you are town.

[SilverWolf]

Believable claim by SilverWolf.

I am for outing of the neighborhood members, and I would like to get claims.

I am not in a neighborhood. That makes me, GrayFoxxxx, Silver (and like one more I think I missed) not in a neighborhood so far.

I believe this is a town response to my claim.

I don't know what to do. I had reasons for thinking Wake is town but his reaction to my claim is not very townie.

Plus, a lot of his play reminds me of his scum game from 181. Like a lot.

Ugh................................

[SilverWolf]

*Important-IF you decide to out your hoods today, please give the name of your hood so I can better decide which ones to look at or talk to at night. If I visit you, I would like you to talk to me and not hide.*

grayfoxxxx is an o.k. D1 lynch but he's probably town VT like he said and it would be a lynch based on being anti-town

Ozgin is scummy and reminds me of his scum game, I'd rather we pressured him tbh

pedit: Wake, I don't think TSO was being insulting. Believe me, I should know when someone is trying to insult someone.

[SilverWolf]

I am happy to see this game going in a more productive discussion now. As long as that continues, I will stick around and help. It was getting far too toxic for awhile there.

Aero did well to do the cooldown as well-good modding.

[SilverWolf]

Wake you keep saying you are a member of town.........

[SilverWolf]

Phone posting so I can't quote but I don't think townies need to constantly remind us they are town. Show it through your actions.

[SilverWolf]

VOTE: wake

VOTE: Wake

VOTE: wake

All of you, explain these please.

[SilverWolf]

Thinking Fro99er and Ozgin are scum.

I'll explain later. I gotta go for awhile.

[SilverWolf]

Wake, Who is the scum on your wagon and why?

I really gotta go now.

Later

[SilverWolf]

Nope, I never left.

I've been switching between phone posting and computer posting because my computer is fried and I'm looking to go buy a laptop. I am using my husband's but he needs it too.

Also, one of our dogs bit the mailman today and I'm trying to find shot records, home owners insurance policy, etc. so that they don't take our dog away from us in front of my 6 year old daughter to quarantine if we can't prove he's had his rabies. We are probably going to get fined and maybe sued as well.

So excuse me for being preoccupied o.k?

Now I am leaving to go find a mailbox to install outside our gate and maybe pick up that laptop.

Please do not insinuate I am leaving and coming back while your wagon grows because that's BS.

[SilverWolf]

VOTE: Grayfoxxxx

[SilverWolf]

VOTE: Grayfoxxxx

Silverwolf, I urge you to be cautious with TSO.

Look closely. Look at how he's been navigating these last pages.

Consider why I am saying this, in spite of him being on my wagon without much good reason.

Grayfoxxxx is one issue, but also consider TSO, and what he is doing.

Do you think TSO is scum for his GrayFoxxxx push?

[SilverWolf]

VOTE: Grayfoxxxx

Silverwolf, I urge you to be cautious with TSO.

Look closely. Look at how he's been navigating these last pages.

Consider why I am saying this, in spite of him being on my wagon without much good reason.

Grayfoxxxx is one issue, but also consider TSO, and what he is doing.

Do you think TSO is scum for his GrayFoxxxx push?

Reading the exchanges in the last ten pages, you would see there is much more to it than that.

OK, I see TSO pushing a scumread he has, I see GrayFoxxxx defending himself from that push, I vote GrayFoxxxx, You object and tell me to be cautious of TSO.

My question is very simple. Are you scumreading TSO? Are you townreading Gray?

Otherwise, why do you object to my vote?

[SilverWolf]

I'd love to get an Ozgin wagon going.

[SilverWolf]

OK, I see TSO pushing a scumread he has, I see GrayFoxxxx defending himself from that push, I vote GrayFoxxxx, You object and tell me to be cautious of TSO.

My question is very simple. Are you scumreading TSO? Are you townreading Gray?

Otherwise, why do you object to my vote?

...

Presuming you are Town, shouldn't you be asking me

why

I am suspecting TSO?

Once you asked me if I thought TSO was Scum for the Grayfoxxxx push, and once you asked me if I was scumreading TSO.

Since your vote on Grayfoxxxx in 1110, you have not asked me why I am suspecting him. 'If,' and 'if,' but not 'why.'

Would you like to start by asking me why I am suspecting TSO?

It's rude to answer a question with another question.

[SilverWolf]

Yay!!

VOTE: Ozgin

[SilverWolf]

I do know how to play the game, and I am not unfamiliar with how Scum can play.

It is odd, in my humble opinion, how during my pressing of TSO for answers regarding his behavior, Silverwolf comes in, does not ask me why I suspect him, but votes with TSO onto Grayfoxxxx, while seemingly 'not understanding' what it is I am seeing in TSO's behavior, trying to manipulate me with flattery and emotions onto a potentially convenient target. Knowing I will not be dissuaded, and not willing to be manipulated by TSO into voting for Grayfoxx in spite of what Grayfoxxxx was doing, I see TSO logging off for bed, Silverwolf asking me questions but not really asking me why I suspect TSO, Shinobi coming in about an Ozgin wagon, and Silverwolf nearly immediately saying that she, too, would love an Ozgin wagon.

Silverwolf does not answer my 1127. Shinobi shrugs off the idea of a Wake wagon, and votes Ozgin. Then Silverwolf immediately votes for Ozgin, and then does Grayfoxxxx. Nosferatu ignores my suggestion to engage, seemingly ignores that have happened, and proceeds to naked-vote Ozgin. Feels like Shinobi, like Silverwolf, is playing dumb about TSO's manipulative behavior, if 1137 is any indication.

Cool recap. I've had my vote on Ozgin all day and explained why in my reads list here 887.

You answered my questions with more questions. Now, you say I'm ignoring TSO but I'm not Wake. When I first voted TSO and others followed me, I expected a huge pushback from him and possibly even a vote/tunnel/push. He'd have every reason to do so as scum because I was scumread by a bunch of people, under pressure, and replaced back into the game. He didn't though. He backed off me and gave me a very fair reasoning behind his original scumread.

I have a tendency to vote scum, then let them go and chase after lurkers and VI's and mislynch people-as town. It sucks that I am so indecisive as town. Especially D1.

If you think TSO is scum, then you need to tell me why now that I've told you why I think he's town. Work with me. Not against me if you are town.

[SilverWolf]

Wake-I think Ozgin is scum because I know his scum game pretty well after being scum with him in 180 and he was much more engaged in 185 as town. He had a reads list, he was pushing his scumreads, trying to figure out the game, dealing with a Titus tunnel with townie rage. I knew he was town but since I was scum I let him be mislynched.

I feel nothing town about Ozgin here but he is lurky, doesn't have very many reads, and little to no opinion on things. He was very indecisive on his reads as scum and asked me a lot in the hood for my opinions on people and waited for others to give some before voting.

I think there's a good chance he's scum here.

I totally feel Fro99er as scum. His entrance into this game was very weak and has been every since. His scumreads are flimsy with reasoning that doesn't hold water and look fabricated.

He never really did a catch up either even though he said he would before throwing a naked vote on a growing wagon-his vote on Wake.

I've been saying Red is scum all game and have explained it many times.

These are my current scumreads but I do admit that people like Boon really need to be looked at more in future days.

[SilverWolf]

Regarding the 3 major wagons: I'm good with Ozgin. I would be willing to switch to Gray as a compromise. I'm not joining a Wake wagon.

[SilverWolf]

I see her as weird but not scummy. I have her as null. Do you see something in the hood I'm missing?

[SilverWolf]

Yeah, there is no way I'm taking my vote off Ozgin until he does the "more to come" and I ask that anyone one Ozgin's wagon stay there until he contributes. I don't really mind if Wake's wagon dies. GrayFoxxxx I'm meh on. I could maybe vote Anna. But I'm sticking to Ozgin and if he doesn't do anything, he needs to die. He's scummy also for reasons I've said.

[SilverWolf]

@mod

I think Creede73 is due a prod.

Thanks!!

[SilverWolf]

You have got to be kidding me that you are impressed by Red and there isn't a whole lot to hate on. I can't even believe you are reading the same person as me.

And kop has lots of wall posts and has good stuff?

And Anna-good questions, town motivated, you won't lynch at all? Huh?

You like Quaroath's effort?

Townreading Boon?

Hmmmm...................................

I feel like you are reading a different game than me.

[SilverWolf]

You are correct about me though. So you don't have to re-evaluate your understanding of players you know.

[SilverWolf]

Ozgin's town. He has no reason to town read the Boon; 1: he can't expect me to defend him, 2: i've been known to hardcore push/get into games when someone town reads me. Scum has no incentive to town read me. Ozgin is ALWAYS mislynched early game.

Hmmmm.................................

He can't expect you to defend him but he townreads you and here you are.

Listen, I had a serious problem dropping scumreads in the other Delicious game and I am wary about it now.

I thought Ozgin was super town in 185. I didn't fight his lynch but my reads were spot on in that game and I townread Ozgin. I"m not townreading him here. Plus, I am very familiar with him as scum.

Both Ozgin's and TSO's push on GrayFoxxxx is worrying me because I don't think there's a super strong chance he'll flip scum.

But at this point, his flip will be telling in regards to that at least.

And I want to point out that Fro99er was pretty set on Ozgin and suddenly unvoted Ozgin to vote Wake and is now voting Anna. Anna is someone Ozgin says he will not lynch today.

I really don't know what to make of all this.

[SilverWolf]

Yeah, I helped mislynch Ozgin as town in the last Delicious and don't want to do that to him again. I defended him hard in 180 even though we were both scum and actually felt bad for him in 185 for not defending an obvious town Ozgin and letting scum Titus and scum Bookitty mislynch him.

What I mean about dropping scumreads is I voted for House in the Delicious game at one point and Bookitty at one point and TSO at one point-all the scum. I never held onto those votes. I went after mislynch bait like Boon, and TN and Ozgin and Wrong Lynch and I was not happy with myself for that post game.

So now I'm worried about being all indecisive and wishy washy and giving up my votes on people that I felt somewhat strong about.

So I will check Ozgin's links and ISO the people I disagree with and see if I can see what he sees and go from there.

Probably not right now though. I'm tired and have had a couple margaritas and have a slight headache. LOL

pedit: Nos, no one is town based on a reads list, I have made that mistake before, if Ozgin is scum you are letting him manipulate you based on townreading you

[SilverWolf]

Ozgin-tell me what is so great about Red

[SilverWolf]

Also, point out some good wall posts of Kop's.

[SilverWolf]

Nos, no one is town based on a reads list, I have made that mistake before, if Ozgin is scum you are letting him manipulate you based on townreading you

I would change my vote even if he scum read me. His thoughts of me are irrelevant.

Because?

I see that he has been kind of defending you this game and you suddenly drop a scumread and vote for who he wants lynched off of one post.

Also, Oz has been buddying TSO all game.

And he likes Quaroath based on the play in the game he modded but I don't see much difference and Quar was scum there. He doesn't like Mah but Mah is no different than that game and was town there.

Like I said, I'll look into this more tomorrow but I have to be able to see a read progression that makes sense because that's one of the hardest things for scum to do, fabricate scumreads.

[SilverWolf]

Silverwolf - Town. I don't really care about going much into this read.

This is town silver, through and through

. I don't even really need to support this right now, and if I find myself wrong later I'll really need to rethink my understanding of players that I think I know. But yeah, this is town, so leave it alone.

Woah Silver,

I've been buddying TSO all game? I haven't interacted with him directly for more than maybe one post? And I've just been making jokes.

I thought you were town, yeh?

You change your mind already?

[SilverWolf]

Good posting 1236.

You basically just listed out the problems I had with Ozgin in a much better way than I did.

Yeah, Qua is in my town pile for that post alone because it mirrors my own thought process very well.

Boon-You jumping in to townread Oz and cast doubt on my alignment for not immediately dropping my scumread on him is noted.

[SilverWolf]

Silverwolf - Town. I don't really care about going much into this read.

This is town silver, through and through

. I don't even really need to support this right now, and if I find myself wrong later I'll really need to rethink my understanding of players that I think I know. But yeah, this is town, so leave it alone.

Woah Silver,

I've been buddying TSO all game? I haven't interacted with him directly for more than maybe one post? And I've just been making jokes.

I thought you were town, yeh?

You change your mind already?

Ozgin-tell me what is so great about Red

Also, point out some good wall posts of Kop's.

@Ozgin

[SilverWolf]

Mahonster scum: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=26028

Mahonster town: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=26028

Both these games are very recent. To me it looks like he was much more involved in his scum game. I do know we had problems with him in that town game because he didn't say much D1 or have much of an opinion but ended up contributing later.

Quaroath was scum in that second game as well.

@Quaroath and Ozgin-do you think mah is similar to his town play from the game he was in with us-yeah, I know you were the mod Ozgin but still interested in your input?

[SilverWolf]

I don't know what to think of Anna. It's hard for me to scumread someone based off conversations that I don't have access to right now. Her ISO is a lot of fluff with a couple decent posts. I have her as null right now and not really sure on this one tbh.

[SilverWolf]

redFF - null-town. Lame 186. Really, that was the lamest scumread I've ever read. Posts get longer and/or better (giggity) like his 363 and his string of posts from 710 to 754 in his ISO. 847 is good, too. It was a slow start, but I became pretty impressed with this guy. Not a whole lot to hate on.

As for Red, I like the way he handles his wagon in 186, also I like his 363 for his refutation of bullshit, and it seems like town frustration. Granted, I think he's a dickhead, but he's not a scum dickhead (no offense red, but you were kinda r00d).

How can you go from saying his 186 was lame to using it as a good post of his?

[SilverWolf]

Yeah no Ozgin. You didn't like 186 because you thought it was a bad scumread on me. I actually agree. It's one of the reasons I think Red is scum.

But you then list 186 as liking the response to his wagon which was nothing but him scumreading me that now you like when you didn't before.

Sorry Ozin, I really despise the thought of mislynching you if you are town after 185 but you look like inconsistent scum to me and I can't unvote you.

[SilverWolf]

Damn it Ozgin.

UNVOTE:

[SilverWolf]

I'm not running anyone else up to a claim today.

Fuck this game.

[SilverWolf]

Ozgin was not obviously town Boon. I'm annoyed tbh.

[SilverWolf]

Ozgin is CONSTANTLY mislynched Day 1. He's one of those guys that is MUCH better to wait until like day 3 before lynch.

This is such a load.

[SilverWolf]

Annoyed at what?

Because we are hindered in our ability to do anything else today because I don't want to run anyone else up to a claim at this point.

VOTE: GrayFoxxxx

[SilverWolf]

fuck off Wake

[SilverWolf]

Seriously the amount of inconsistencies pointed out by multiple people about Ozgin just makes me think anyone claiming to not have suspected him either needs to get over themselves or be lynched as scum.

I like you.

VOTE: Anna

I'd like to see more from her.

[SilverWolf]

@mod

-Also, BBQ ribs, fried chicken, corn on the cob, Chef salad, watermelon, lemonaide, French Silk Pie

[SilverWolf]

RedFF - Shinobi, Silverwolf, Quaroath, Salamence20, Creede73, GrayFoxxxx (L-5)
Nosferatu - Wake88, Spiffeh, Annadog40, Creede73 (L-7)

These two wagons are going on together. Red wagon dissipates because people are falsely saying it got to L-1 and therefore he's town (Wake), falsely saying I was scum pushing town (TSO), saying it was a shit wagon and people on it are idiots while also saying they didn't read Red's posts (TSO).

So then what happened to the wagons? I replaced back in and went after TSO. TSO hit Gray for his sheep of me:
T S O - Silverwolf, Lapsa, GrayFoxxxx (L-8)
GrayFoxxxx - Quaroath, T S O (L-9)
RedFF - Salamence20, Mahonster (L-9)

GrayFoxxxx wagon happens:
GrayFoxxxx - Quaroath, T S O, Shinobi, Creede73, Silverwolf, Ozgin (L-5)

Wake wagon gets going:
Wake88 - ika, Salamence20, Quaroath, Kop, Fro99er, GrayFoxxxx (L-5)
GrayFoxxxx - T S O, Creede73, Ozgin, texcat, Spiffeh (L-6)

Ozgin's wagon:
Wake88 - ika, Salamence20, Quaroath, Kop, Fro99er (L-6)
Ozgin - Shinobi, SilverWolf, GrayFoxxxx, Nosferatu (L-7)
GrayFoxxxx - T S O, Creede73, Ozgin, texcat, Spiffeh (L-7)

Anna's wagon picks up steam:
Wake88 - ika, Salamence20, Quaroath, Kop (L-7)
Ozgin - Shinobi, SilverWolf, GrayFoxxxx, Nosferatu, Skybird (L-6)
GrayFoxxxx - T S O, Creede73, Ozgin, texcat, Spiffeh, Annadog40 (L-5)
Annadog40 - RedFF, Mahonster, Fro99er (L-8)

Then later, after Ozgin claims:
GrayFoxxxx - T S O, Creede73, Ozgin, Annadog40, Nosferatu (L-6)
Annadog40 - RedFF, Mahonster, Skybird, GrayFoxxxx, Shinobi, SilverWolf (L-5)


This tells me that GrayFoxxxx would be a good lynch today. Thoughts? Agree? Disagree? I'm not switching my vote right now. I'd like to hear from Anna. But I think GrayFoxxxx would be the best flip D1 based on this.

[SilverWolf]

How do you know TSO isn't on my suspect list?

Hint: He is.

Info. wise your lynch would be the best IMO. I am asking for feedback on this.

[SilverWolf]

The problem is, we didnt get anyone to claim besides the wolf, which shouldnt have happened. Atleast 1-2 of those guys should have been claimed imo.

Confirmed not reading.

Ozgin claimed Town JOAT and GrayFoxxxx claimed VT a long time ago.

[SilverWolf]

The people who keep moving are probably town. The ones who either suggest it and didnt follow are mafia.

I move my vote around as either alignment. Wagon analysis post flips will help and VCA later in the game after we've had a few flips will help as well regarding how people are voting.

I tend to think scum is lurking hardcore at this point and those people need to be looked at. We can also look at those avoiding wagons like you and Shinobi have suggested. I don't have time to look at all the voting right now.

[SilverWolf]

Well, Red's a hardcore lurker and I was super annoyed that his wagon dissolved the way it did. People were unvoting and jumping off before he even got a chance to get into the thread and respond to it. Then we have people like TSO and Wake saying we were idiots, the wagon was shit, he was town because I was scum, it's probably on town because it was at L-1(even though I said repeatedly it never got past 7 out of 11 votes). I was frankly very frustrated with that.

[SilverWolf]

I'm probably just an idiot, and it's my fault for getting run up to a claim. I can't really blame anyone but myself for bad play, and I gotta try to stop being stupid. :/

<3

I'm sorry Ozgin. I should of known better. If any player in this game knows what you are like as scum it would be me. I misread you. You know me also and you didn't misread me. You are not stupid. I've seen some very good play from you as both town (185) and scum (180). I would argue I'm having a worse game than you are right now. It happens. It's D1. It's not your fault or anyone's fault.

On this note, I'm not running anyone else up to a claim now. GrayFoxxxx is a VT who's lynch will provide us information. He's the best bet, IMO.

VOTE: GrayFoxxxx

[SilverWolf]

Throughout these exchanges, Grayfoxxxx has pointed out TSO's wishy-washy case against him based on Scum meta.

Silverwolf jumps in, voting for Grayfoxxxx.*

TSO apparently back-pedals off the shit case against Grayfoxxxx, and instead redirects to why Gray is voting me.*

I caution Silverwolf.* Unsure if she is Town, I decide to check if she will play stupid, or be genuine. Having ushered her into the game, and knowing that she played more than some of my games as she learned, I have a better understanding of her play than other players, in general. That's the truth of it. I know that Silverwolf gets weary as Scum, and doesn't like having to play under false pretensions.

Again I caution her about TSO's atgtempt to manipulate me to strike at Gray, even though Gray is on my 8W for insufficient reasons.*

Guys, note these next exchanges.

Silverwolf asks me if TSO is Scum for his push on Grayfoxxxx.*

In effect I respond to her that if she read the last exchanges, she would see that TSO was trying to subvert my vote to Grayfoxxxx, through flattery, trying to capitalize on my predicament, which would benefit TSO and put another weight on Gray.*

Note this, guys.

She very simplistically decides to not actually read the exchanges or my posts, especially the ones where I actually posted to point out he was trying to manipulate me. Definitely over-simplifying it; Town Silverwolf would give a damn and not try to gloss something over. Something is wrong with that filter this game, which gives me reason to pause. She asks me if I'm scumreading TSO, townreading Gray, and why I objected to her vote. That is dancing around the question. She never once asked me

why

I was suspicious of TSO. No, that would draw attention.*

Basically, at this point a shade of doubt manifests, in that maybe, maybe, Silverwolf is running interference for TSO.

K, I am not running interference here. I asked you if you were scumreading TSO and if you were townreading Gray and what exactly the problem you had with my vote was. These are 3 separate questions all worthy of a response that you never game me. It stands to reason that if you said yes or no and didn't elaborate I would ask you why.

Shinobi timely pops in. Says Ozgin [who'd later be run up wrong and claim JoaT].*

Silverwolf is loving the idea. She wants to see that wagon going. Divert!*

Funny how you fail to mention I had my vote on Ozgin all day and was suspicious of him long before this. It wasn't like this was some brand new idea of mine that Ozgin needed to be wagoned.

I respond to her, brushing away the dodgy questions, and asking her exactly why she hasn't asked me why I'm suspecting TSO.*

She shuts down by saying I'm rude.* Doesn't want to answer, or really talk about it, which makes me think 'why?' I mean, she's presumably Town, so why wouldn't Town-Silverwolf actually engage? No, she'd be interested. She wouldn't be dodging. She wouldn't try to redirect the discussion. She wouldn't be playing obtuse. No, I point my finger at Silverwolf, and I keep my vote on TSO for now.

No, those were legitimate questions that you refused to answer. Don't think you can brush off my questions and then expect me to answer yours. That's not how it works if you want an open dialogue. It isn't one sided. You are word twisting big time here and I do not appreciate you manipulating my intentions like this at all. Not one bit.

Shinobi plays dumb, and also tries to redirect the discussion elsewhere, to the bad Ozgin wagon.*

Both Silverwolf and Shinobi refuse to engage me over TSO's attempt to capitalize on my predicament, and his attempts to flatter me to change my vote. They're just ignoring it, and I think I might know why.

TSO
Silverwolf
Shinobi

I'm keeping these three in mind. Did not like that flow of exchanges one bit: it was coordinated.

Again I point this stuff out.*

Shinobi completely plays dumb in a devil-may-care kind of way.*

Shinobi and Silverwolf are avoiding engaging me directly and genuinely on the TSO/Grayfoxxxx issue.

TSO does not engage further. Proceeds to go about as if nothing happened.

I'm calling it on those three, tentatively.

OK, First of all associations like this are really, really bad to do D1 without any flips. It's ridiculous. You assuming you know how I am thinking this game and being manipulative in how you are interpreting my actions to paint 3 people in this game as scum is terribad play Wake.

I am having a bad game. I think that's been obvious since it started. I'm not even going to deny it. I would not be surprised if people who know me are scumreading me for it. I started off trying to do something different and it back-fired, then I got crabby due to some stress I'm dealing with and some in game frustration as well, I replaced out because I was annoyed, replaced back in when I found my slot being scumread even harder and not wanting a replacement to deal with my shit like I did to unfortunate Titus when she replaced in for me in Sweet Dreams because she saw me struggling and wanted to help. I've been tired and you are right Wake, my "filter" or whatever you want to call it is off this game. I am off this game. I am having a bad game. I don't know if you read the dead chat in the game I just got out of that Oz modded but I was talking about being in need of a break and I think that's true. I un-preinned from another game I was invited to and turned down another invite to replace into but did say I'd reconsider in a month or so if the game is still going on. I'm not myself or on the ball in this game and that's just the way it is. I also am not playing as hard or putting as much serious effort in because damn it, I am pissed that so many are playing anti-town and it's kind of soured me on this game.

Right now, I think the active people are mostly town. Red and Creede should be replaced. I would not be surprised if at least one of those two is scum. I don't expect shit from ika or Boon and one of them may also be scum and Salmanence is either scum or also anti-town. I find this type of play very annoying because if they are town, they are hurting my wincon as well as their own.

I am town Wake and the fact that you can't even look at the rest of my play beyond what you outlined here is really disappointing. I claimed early, something I'd never do as scum. I replaced out and in-seriously almost breeching the point of being unethical if I was scum. And so far I have fucked up badly in my emotions, my read on Ozgin, and my ability to play right now.

Stop being bad Wake and stop being paranoid of me. It is seriously getting old. I'm only responding to it now because I know how much you dislike it when people don't respond to your long posts.

[SilverWolf]

Right now, I think the active people are mostly town. Red and Creede should be replaced. I would not be surprised if at least one of those two is scum. I don't expect shit from ika or Boon and one of them may also be scum and Salmanence is either scum or also anti-town. I find this type of play very annoying because if they are town, they are hurting my wincon as well as their own.

Adding Lapsa and Annadog to this list.

So right now the people not playing or playing so anti-town it is actually harmful to town at this point:

-RedFF
-Creede73
-Lapsa
-Annadog
-ika
-Boon
-Salamence

That's 7 people out of 21, fully 1/3 of the people playing this game, who are hurting town or need to be replaced or are scum. I guess if you are scum, I can't fault you because you have very little incentive to contribute at this point in the game. But if you are town, you are actually harming town's wincon and this is the main reason town loses their games IMO. I have zero tolerance for this type of play unless someone is on V/LA (V/LA doesn't really count as long as you contribute outside of that) or maybe flaked and the mod will replace (not much you can do about that). Otherwise, regardless of what happens, these people need to contribute or die because they are either scum or will hurt town late game by making the game apathetic or for sure should not be alive at a lylo situation. And tbh, I don't even give a damn what your role is at that point. Just replace or die.

I'd actually rather lynch one of these people than Gray because at least Gray has been posting now. Problem with that is twofold. We have outed roles. Outing another one (if that were to happen) would be more harmful to town D1 than not. AND, we have about 3.5 days until deadline and a NL would be more harmful to town than not.

So I have no choice but to stick with Gray but I'm calling this shit out. It needs to be brought out and highlighted so town can look for scum here or put people's feet to the fire to contribute.

[SilverWolf]

Gray-My reasoning is twofold:

-I don't want a NL D1-I seriously feel that would be extremely harmful to town-hence saying it's info. lynch

-I don't want any more roles outed, should be obvious why

-I don't think we have time to flashwagon anyone else

-TSO gets a real hard look tomorrow if you flip town, I for one will examine the votes/wagon on you as I always do with a town flip

-We will learn more after N1-possibly finding out if we are in multiball for example or maybe a PR will have caught someone, who knows?

[SilverWolf]

OK, Say we decide TSO is a scumfuck and wagon him. Is he gonna be here to respond to it? He mentioned being out with internet issues I think? I'd have to re-read. Maybe that was ika, idk.

What will NL do exactly? We won't find out your alignment for sure. So tomorrow we deal with TSO and who knows who else trying to wagon you all over again, thereby giving scum more room to coast.

I tried to keep lala around as long as possible in 185 because every single day phase people were voting her and trying to lynch her and it kept the focus on her and not me. It worked for awhile.

We need to eliminate that possibility so scum has one less distraction out of the way to hide behind.

[SilverWolf]

UNVOTE:

Did I tell anyone I was having a bad game?

I have to think about this some more and this puts him back to L-2 right now I believe.

[SilverWolf]

LOL-I don't even know what I'm doing right now.

It was Skybird's unvote. I think something happened in the hood.

[SilverWolf]

The only other person with a viable wagon is anna and while, due to her play, I'd be fine lynching her, I think Skybird's about face on her due to the hood makes me wonder if that's a good idea.

I would also vote Gray to avoid a NL but I took my vote off to get him off L-1 in case others wanted to talk more.

[SilverWolf]

Lapsa would be a good vote IMO. Getting away with shit play because you've done it before as town is not a good reason to keep someone around. He has no scum meta. How do we know this isn't scum Lapsa? Assuming he's town because he's bad means we might as well lynch him over Gray who also got wagoned because of bad play as well.

[SilverWolf]

Gray-I've been spending time I don't have trying to look into viable alternatives. If you think I've been passive this game, then I don't know what to tell you.

We have 3 days, 10 hours. Please don't expect me to lead town. At least not right now. Everyone should be scumhunting and pushing their scumreads right now.

Gray-look at the reason you were wagoned in the first place. You were naked voting people, jumping on every large wagon, claimed VT early, and making excuses about changing your meta. You are doing much better now but that is really why you were wagoned in the first place.

[SilverWolf]

Did I tell anyone I was having a bad game?

u have a v powerful PR and u claimed it in a fit of rage mid day 1 so its kinda obvious tbh

This isn't true BTW but I'm not going to get into this now.

[SilverWolf]

Salamence could also be scum. His reaction to my call for a PL was a huge, huge over-reaction. He wasn't going to be PL'd. I was trying to get him to stop spamming about the thread length and pushing speedlynches, etc. but he blew a damn gasket. Does anyone know if he gets super pissed off like that as town or scum? I could look it up but don't have a ton of time right now.

[SilverWolf]

Gray-I've been spending time I don't have trying to look into viable alternatives. If you think I've been passive this game, then I don't know what to tell you.

I did not generalize your passive attitude to span the whole game. You seem to be resigning to let others do work the rest of the day, while you hover your vote over me.

We have 3 days, 10 hours. Please don't expect me to lead town. At least not right now. Everyone should be scumhunting and pushing their scumreads right now.

Again, you are bringing in variables I never mentioned

Gray-look at the reason you were wagoned in the first place. You were naked voting people, jumping on every large wagon, claimed VT early, and making excuses about changing your meta. You are doing much better now but that is really why you were wagoned in the first place.

What else do you do D1? Lynch VT's?
I claimed VT early, and explained I was changing my meta before anyone gave me pressure. What was I using it as an excuse for?

Gray-yes, I am resigned to let other do the work because my confidence is not real high right now, why can't I ask my fellow townies to help me?

I can bring in other variables if I think they are important to the discussion whether or not it deals with you specifically.

D1 you scumhunt just like you do every other day. Do I need to tell you how to play the game?

Because you brought up your meta argument before it was really necessary-therefore making sure we all saw it as an excuse for your behavior this game. You claiming VT hurt town because that narrows down the kill pool for scum.

[SilverWolf]

Gray-Why did you claim VT early?

[SilverWolf]

Gray-yes, I am resigned to let other do the work because my confidence is not real high right now, why can't I ask my fellow townies to help me?

Help you do what exactly? Do they need to tell you how to play?

I can bring in other variables if I think they are important to the discussion whether or not it deals with you specifically.

If the discussion is my lynch, I don't see bringing in topics that just foggy the waters.

D1 you scumhunt just like you do every other day. Do I need to tell you how to play the game?

why can't I ask my fellow townies to help me?

Because you brought up your meta argument before it was really necessary-therefore making sure we all saw it as an excuse for your behavior this game. You claiming VT hurt town because that narrows down the kill pool for scum.

So when I know I will be criticized for my meta,I should just wait until I'm called on it? Wouldn't it be more reasonable for me to just go ahead and tell the town what's going on, before it looks like I'm just making up an excuse?

-Help me figure out who is scum

-Bringing up the deadline specifically deals with your lynch, and there is more to discuss than your lynch unless you want us to just lynch you and end the day

-You were making excuses for bad play and frankly I consider a VT claim harmful to town because scum is more likely to hit a PR because they can avoid you, as a VT you should be playing super, super town. So town, that scum thinks you are a threat and you draw the kill TO YOU instead of TO a PR.

In fact, I am a little suspicious of your VT claim on further thought because it is very survivalist and VT's should NOT be worried about their own survival AT ALL.

pedit: I'm just checking out this VT angle. I am fine switching to Kop.

[SilverWolf]

Alright, nevermind about me catching up, I just can't get interested in this game. I'm on my phone, and can only get to this game from my phone. Aeronaut, can you replace me? Maybe I'll play on this site when it has a mobile version.

@mod

No offense Creede but this makes me super happy. It isn't personal, but I think a replacement of your slot will help me read it because I got nothing from you.

@Kop-No, we are not NLing D1.

It seems your major suspects are people town has already put under the gun and not original. Your stance on Ozgin was to come in, agree with us about him, not vote, then when he claims JOAT, you go and say you never voted for him.

I'm gonna ISO you cuz you look sus.

[SilverWolf]

Part of me really wants to lynch Red. He's lurky and his gripes about me are really coloring my view of him I think, I mean if you ISO him, he talks about me a lot and all of it's jerky comments. I really do not like but I'm not sure if this is scum being an ass or town being an ass. When you don't post much and you have to say something about one player every time you do, it really sours me on him quite a bit.

[SilverWolf]

I want to say Kop is scum going with the flow but when you look at Nos, he's going with the flow as well. They could both be scum or one of them is. Something tells me they aren't both town.

Anyway, I will still vote for GrayFoxxx if it's to avoid a NL. I really don't like his VT claim or the fact that most of his posting is defending himself. He does have some townie frustration going on though.

Kop's lack of stances is concerning. Most of his suspicion is on people everyone else has called out. I'd like him to come up with his own stances on things.

VOTE: Kop

[SilverWolf]

Mahonster could be scum too. Most of his stuff is discussing the neighborhoods and that's fine to a certain extent but it starts to look like busy work after awhile and he sheeps me on Red which is meh and there's not much else there.

[SilverWolf]

Oh hey, I forgot about the extra day added to the deadline. So we have 4 days.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Irrelevant post is irrelevant. Or is it? You decide.

[SilverWolf]

Wake-I took the time to respond to your post and even broke it up. If you want people to discuss things with you, don't brush that off. Tell me what you think of my points. 1431

Nos-you don't help with your constant little jabs at people when they have heated discussions. It does nothing to help the gamestate. You've made several immature comments that only serve to make thing worse. Stop, or be lynched. Seriously.

GM and Firebringer-Welcome!!

Firebringer-ISO GrayFoxxxx first would probably help you the most.

I'd love other opinions on things if you are town.

[SilverWolf]

Wake-I took the time to respond to your post and even broke it up. If you want people to discuss things with you, don't brush that off. Tell me what you think of my points. 1431

Nos-you don't help with your constant little jabs at people when they have heated discussions. It does nothing to help the gamestate. You've made several immature comments that only serve to make thing worse. Stop, or be lynched. Seriously.

GM and Firebringer-Welcome!!

Firebringer-ISO GrayFoxxxx first would probably help you the most.

I'd love other opinions on things if you are town.

You told me to fuck off, so I'm not really interested in talking with you that much. An apology would be a good start. Would you want to work with me if I told you to fuck off? I doubt you would.

I will continue asking you pointed questions, though, and I will brush off questions from you that judge are distractions. Having been Scum in past game, I know how to ask questions like that.

Why? Because I think some of these people reading this stuff will eventually sober up as the body count rises.

Wonderful. Here is the post that was in response to: 1308

I believe you said you don't have patience for our idiocy among other things. You implied we were all idiots who kept fucking up because we didn't listen to you. So yeah, my comment was appropriate.

Anyway, this game has 4 days left. I'm not going to get bogged down in this any further. If you want to talk. Let me know. Otherwise, Have a good night.

[SilverWolf]

Wonderful. Here is the post that was in response to: 1308

I believe you said you don't have patience for our idiocy among other things. You implied we were all idiots who kept fucking up because we didn't listen to you. So yeah, my comment was appropriate.

Anyway, this game has 4 days left. I'm not going to get bogged down in this any further. If you want to talk. Let me know. Otherwise, Have a good night.

The problem is that it's true, and yeah, I do feel frustrated and emotional about it, when people just can't listen. Like their ears drop off. They get stupid. You spend half an hour writing exactly what you think hoping to get some actual quality feedback, and you get much of anything valuable from them, because, hey, they might be crappy. Yeah, it doesn't sound nice. I'm being honest.

How many games have I been in?

How many times has Town Wake cautioned the rest to not do something, but they don't listen, and they do it anyways, and it backfires all to hell in their faces? It gets old. Different faces, same stuff. "Hey, Ozgin push is a distraction from the real deal." "Oh, Ozgin run up claimed JoaT." "Thank you very much. I love being shot in the foot. I'll have another."

And you, Silverwolf, I don't feel you're Town. You really over-simplified and tried to gloss over my slight push on TSO. It's like you didn't even read anything. I'm the one with ADHD, but you and others aren't paying attention. It's frustrating! Pay attention. Please. Read the actual exchanges, and actually respond to and about them. "Oh, Wake thinks TSO is suspicious because he voted Grayfoxxxx." NO. Read. I

know

Town-Silverwolf would actually care to get into it and discuss the issue, instead of finding reasons to either avoid or simplify it, while distracting peoples' attention elsewhere.

Is this somewhat of a vent? Yeah. That's just how I honestly feel. Make me wonder I would want to spend hours here tonight, when I could be doing something else.

Yeah, I've gotten frustrated and emotional as well and I don't like it when people don't listen either. You are too hard headed and I asked you to respond to my very reasonable points and you won't do it. Yet, you get on my case for not responding to yours even though I did and you refused to answer my questions. You have insisted I'm scum all game without even being willing to listen to me or question if you might be wrong based on OTHER information outside of your narrow little view of one small piece of this game. You are painting 3 people as scum on bad reasoning and when I refute it, you should be willing to listen to me, but you won't. You are stubbornly refusing to admit you might be wrong.

I hope when you see my town flip eventually, you will admit you were wrong and re-evaluate how you decided to approach this game and me in particular and have an more open mind in the future.

pedit: Nos is right. You are hurting the unity of town with your play.

[SilverWolf]

As for unity, fuck that. If I were Scum be fucking screaming for it, because then you're all united and easily fucking manipulated. Unity my ass: you're new to this game I bet. You didn't know that I'd be preaching for unity if I were Scum. There's not much you do know about who you're playing with. I want people talking and showing their fucking stances and not playing so damned safe or chickenshit. Scum don't like taking risks when it comes to conversation because it typically comes back to get them if Town is prudent.

This is BS. Scum doesn't like when town is united and working together.

Are you willing to compromise, considering we have 4 days left and you are very unlikely to get 10 more votes for TSO or not? Because if the answer is no, then I will move on and stop reaching out to you. Because every time I do, you slap it away and call me scum.

[SilverWolf]

How many times has Town Wake cautioned the rest to not do something, but they don't listen, and they do it anyways, and it backfires all to hell in their faces? It gets old. Different faces, same stuff. "Hey, Ozgin push is a distraction from the real deal." "Oh, Ozgin run up claimed JoaT." "Thank you very much. I love being shot in the foot. I'll have another."

I already responded to this. But as we can see here, you didn't listen to it because you are still going on with this ridiculous assumption that the Ozgin wagon magically started in response to your TSO push when I fucking said I had already voted for him waaaaaaay before that.

You preach about no one listening to you. Well you clearly aren't listening to anyone who says anything outside your narrow-minded view of things.

pedit: No matter how you are reading someone, if you yell at them to listen to you, then you better listen back-communication is a two-way street. Otherwise, not one damn thing gets done and the game disintegrates.

Also, GM Salamence was very anti-town with his play. Extremely.

[SilverWolf]

i replaced actual genius

He came in trolling and I fucking dig him for it.

Gross.

[SilverWolf]

I'm going to laugh so hard if TSO dies in the night and turns out to be a pro-town PR.

Or when I do or if Shinobi does.

Because anyone that is so damn set on 3 people being scum together on D1 over one interaction deserves to have their world shattered.

pedit: If you think he's a genius, you should see when Aero had to lock the thread for a cooldown and read him then.