New York 180 (Endgame)

[goodmorning]

Won't lynch: Cheetory6, Aeronaut
Could lynch: Marquis, dragonspawn, SilverWolf
Would lynch: Shinobi, Ozgin, Kitz
Should lynch: T S O, elusive

This is kind of where my head is at right now.

[goodmorning]

My biggest problem with elusive is her fade-out. She's become less active and less of a pusher, and seems to be trying more to blend in. Actual content in her posts has been decreasing since before her lack of posting and subsequent V/LA.

I get that she's on V/LA right now. That's not really the activity I'm talking about.

[goodmorning]

That's like 8 people in your lynch pile, and your entire "would lynch" is a bunch of people fighting amongst themselves.

'could lynch' means i'd vote them at deadline but otherwise no.

[goodmorning]

You're there because I think you're Scum.

[goodmorning]

I feel like there's probably a plausible explanation there for those things.

Probably.

[goodmorning]

Not right this instant.

[goodmorning]

It's almost as though you've never played me before.

Except that you have.

[goodmorning]

stop acting fucking coy gm it's not cute

explain now

oh u

It's almost as though you've never played me before.

Except that you have.

Yeah, once; you were scum.

You made terrible reads between players that were attacking each other and came up with reasons not to post, which is exactly what you're doing now.

Obviously you missed when I said: "Oh you poor thing. I am the type of person who replaces into L-1 slots. Votes do not and have never bothered me as any alignment."

I object to 'terrible reads' too. If they were so terrible then I'd have been lynched. The whole point of being Scum is to justify your reads well enough that you're left alone but not so well that you can't go back on them.

I'll just let you two get back to arguing now.

[goodmorning]

Your reads were bad then and they're bad now for the exact same reasons.

Well, the reasons can't be the same. My reads were bad then because I was trying not to lynch my partners. My reads are bad now because I'm bored and apathetic and I want to lynch TSO but don't have the fortitude to push it.

You're ignoring the fact that I called you out for it then and writing it off as meaningless when you know for a fact that it's not, which is mega scummy.

You have yet to explain why you think the situation is similar. I don't think it is, therefore there's nothing for me to answer and it's pretty fucking meaningless.

[goodmorning]

Because she played a lot like this in my only game with her when she was town.

And you're ignoring Shinobi saying she also played exactly like this as scum because ...?

Presumably because I didn't actually play like this in the game I was in with Shinobi.
It's more similar to the game I was in with SilverWolf but still not very.

[goodmorning]

GM is town, I'm pretty sure of it.

GM is borderline not playing this game at all - I feel twitchy and uncomfortable about that. Make her do things.

I've not been playing any games at all over the past couple days.

Your attempts to characterise me as especially lazy in this game have not gone unnoticed.

@GM: This post was my main issue with you, and you're doing it again. You've got a bunch of people fighting amongst themselves in your "would lynch" list and you're putting no effort into figuring out who it is

again

.

If there's a 1v1, you're going to talk about it. To be honest, that post was probably the closest thing to my towngame that I managed to post that game. The rest of it was me trolling Toffee so he couldn't get me lynched.

GM-I would like you to at least try to explain your list of reads a little bit, I feel like you are not going to be lynched and you are using it to your advantage.

I could be lynched, I think a couple people are voting me.

Anyway, I already elabourated on elusive. I don't feel like doing every single person, especially because not many changed too drastically since my last readslist. Are there one or two in particular that you want me to explain?

Same question to Shinobi.

I think Marquis's townread on gm reads as kinda off and I'm probably going to be looking there for his partner after him because I think he's trying to psych me out by hard townreading his scumbuddy.

Why are we doing associatives before flips again?

I think NS could have been low-priority as a target due to inactivity etc. - but there -are- scumkills missing, which maybe he blocked, and they got sick of it. I think this is more likely than my theory about you.

Also, goodmorning knew that Nobody Special is in general inactive and not very helpful at all as town to the scumhunting effort. I could definitely see her prioritise shooting players over PR's, only for NS to block them.

Let's be real. If I were Scum, we'd have targeted you and only you until you died.

I doubt NS was on you all 4 Nights.

Catching up.

My biggest problem with elusive is her fade-out. She's become less active and less of a pusher, and seems to be trying more to blend in. Actual content in her posts has been decreasing since before her lack of posting and subsequent V/LA.

I get that she's on V/LA right now. That's not really the activity I'm talking about.

Yea, I see that a bit. I feel like this sort of applies to a lot of people, though.

Kitz maybe. Not so much anyone else.

[goodmorning]

Not necessarily.

[goodmorning]

@Gm: Everyone in your lynch lists that wound up fighting among themselves. Your "would lynch" list, specifically.

My 'would lynch' list is you, Ozgin, and Kitz. You and Kitz hadn't really gotten into it when I posted that and Ozgin hasn't fought with anyone that I remember.

How is that 'fighting among themselves,' exactly?

[goodmorning]

I'm afraid you won't actually be able to get it, little man - I have something which makes me 100% town, and you don't, though I'd really rather not reveal it unless I have to.

I don't believe you.

The reason I think that it's possible that NS absorbed my kill is that there are missing scum kills, and I see no way for them to disappear unless NS blocked them. Furthermore, he most definitely knows the calibre of my town game - a few months ago, as town, I caught his scumpartner in his first post d1. I strongmanned the lynch through, before we went on to lynch NS the same day and win in 15 pages.(It was a Double Dip mechanic.) I don't see who NS would protect here over me, to be arrogant.

I clicked through and saw that it was just Hopkirk? Come on, man, he's often lynchbait-y anyway. Try catching AP in one post, then you'll have a story.

Anyway, NS is familiar enough with my play that he knows I'm occasionally underestimated. Like the time I got Scum-him lynched as a 3p and went on to win.

It's not like Town-you is the only person Scum would try to kill (unless I was Scum, see my last post). See the various claimed PRs etc.

explained why night actions somewhat exonerate me

l o l
wait, maybe you are not dead

because you are scum

O M G

[goodmorning]

I mean, at this point any investigative, protective, or probably even blocking claim is probably Scum.

[goodmorning]

Since Deputy is technically 'Backup Cop,' I'd say probably.

p-edit: ZMuffin was screaming it because I kept stealing the ring back from him and he was pissed.

If you're saying Math was killed by Town, then you're an idiot, unless you're claiming that you're a Vig who shot her, in which case you're still an idiot but for different reasons.

I'm not particularly interested in manipulating anyone. That's not characteristic of either my towngame or my scumgame.

[goodmorning]

:/
Can you say whether you were one of the kills on N1?
I have a hard time seeing scum fakeclaiming vig in a game which I'm pretty sure has one based on N1.

I have an easy time seeing an SK fakeclaiming Vig. Actually I don't see why Scum might not fakeclaim Vig anyway given that there's been a certain amount of role doubling and on the offchance that it's an SK who probably wouldn't CC.

@Gm: Everyone in your lynch lists that wound up fighting among themselves. Your "would lynch" list, specifically.

My 'would lynch' list is you, Ozgin, and Kitz. You and Kitz hadn't really gotten into it when I posted that and Ozgin hasn't fought with anyone that I remember.

How is that 'fighting among themselves,' exactly?

I've been fighting with both of them.

They certainly haven't seemed to notice, and neither have I.

[goodmorning]

@Ozgin: Have you been fighting with Shinobi?

[goodmorning]

@Shinobi: OK, first off 'Ozgin' appears only 12 times in your ISO, and 4 of those times were when you quoted me, so no, you haven't been fighting with Ozgin. You had one conversation with Ozgin, which you terminated because you were getting 'annoyed.' It was ended calmly and without any apparent bad feeling.

Shit, I've argued with Ozgin more than you have, though most of that was because I was pissed at ABR.

As for Kitz, calling someone stupid doesn't mean you're arguing with them, it just means you're a dick. Asking someone to explain their assertions also does not equate to arguing.

Finally, Ozgin has scumread Kitz occasionally, but that also doesn't equate to arguing. I scumread TSO but I am very much not arguing with him at present.

ANYWAY, thanks for telling me to read the game. It has been incredibly illuminating.

[goodmorning]

(By which I mean

Vote: Shinobi

)

[goodmorning]

Shit, I replaced in after Ozgin and Shinobi refers to me more than to Ozgin (21 total, under goodmorning and gm combined).

INTERESTING.

[goodmorning]

(By which I mean

Vote: Shinobi

)

???

Your revisionist history of this game is, quite frankly, enough to bump you straight to the head of my 'should lynch' list.

[goodmorning]

Your revisionist history of this game is, quite frankly, enough to bump you straight to the head of my 'should lynch' list.

Except that's not at all what happened?

Even if you think your point between me/Ozgin is good, it's really not because at best there's still the issue of me/Kitz which has been happening since forever, which is still valid.

I went looking in your ISO again, this time for the part where you directly engage Kitz, and it doesn't exist. You talk about Kitz occasionally, but talking TO Kitz, all you seem able to do is just quote a post, call it scummy or stupid, and then fuck off.

That's not an argument.

I can go through all your posts in a spoiler to demonstrate that you're a liar if you really want.

[goodmorning]

It's also not a 1v1 or anything else.

[goodmorning]

Coincidentally, even if you had been arguing with them both you'd still have to prove that it was scummy for me to scumread the three of you at similar levels.

[goodmorning]

goodmorning is an utter scumfuck today.

oh u

[goodmorning]

TSO, why are you bothering calling Goodmorning scum when you've said that we all have to choose between Marquis and you?

Because I'm a threat?

[goodmorning]

Because the future?

[goodmorning]

[quote="In post 4766, Shinobi"]You can go ahead and quote as many posts as you want and show me that you have no idea what you're talking about. Unless you really want to dig into the "she's been calling him scum all game so they're definitely not interacting at all lolz" and try to sell that as a vote, which isn't really going to fly.

Calling someone Scum/Town =/= interacting with them. I have a pretty hard townread on Cheetory but I don't think I've said two words to him all game.

No, I'm going to prove you haven't been arguing with Kitz.

P-EDIT: HELLO STRAWMAN

IF YOU ONLY HAD A BRAIN (you could while away the hours conversing with the flowers etc)

[goodmorning]

Nobody fucking cares what you think about the interactions or how they matter at all. Kitz is voting me for bullshit as of right now and she was on the exact same spot on your lynch list as I was, and it didn't seem to bother you at all.

You said it's scummy that I scumread you both because you've been arguing. I'm going to prove that you haven't been arguing.

Anyway the reasons I scumread the two of you are totally different, so I don't see what you're getting at.

p-edit: tso if i was scum you would have been dead a long long time ago

[goodmorning]

Right back at you, sweetheart.

idk if i believe that

[goodmorning]

Right back at you, sweetheart.

idk if i believe that

b/c you're not necessarily the type to worry about players

[goodmorning]

If I have nothing particularly interesting to do with my nightkill, eg. PR's, then yeah I kinda am.

you have had prs though

[goodmorning]

Pisskop kill makes sense from a vig standpoint but mathblade does not.

THAT'S WHAT I SAID

Btw, if someone wants to tell me why a serial killer would be totally invested in this game and have the highest postcount out of everyone, then I'm all ears.

...because they want to win? I don't know why this is difficult.

But that's easily verifiable - if NS's target received a message, then players would have got that message, as I strongly doubt NS was on me -every- night. So, it's highly, highly doubtful that all of NS's targets received messages, as the only one who's ever got one was vikingfan on n1.

Boonskiies? Both Docs? Who knows?

Who cares?

@Marquis

, do you really think TSO wouldn't be worried about a counterclaim if he was some kind of scum fakeclaiming right now? Like, even if he was the SK, wouldn't the vig just counterclaim him and he'd be fucked? I feel like his course of actions here just doesn't make sense as scum and if he's lying he's fucked anyway.
I don't get how you're seeing this situation any other way?

You are obviously not reading.

Why would you target MathBlade? Just why?

THIS, TOO, IS WHAT I SAID

[goodmorning]

You are obviously not reading.

What do you mean?

Just what I say.

I shot MathBlade because I felt she kept talking nonsense and making up ridiculous shit. Like her Bulletproof claim. I knew that was a lie. My read on her is blatantly clear in my ISO, I even softed the fact I was shooting her.

She made up less nonsense than ABR. Also, she was obvTown.

ANYWAY. Less setup stuff and more lynching Shinobi, pls thx

[goodmorning]

Which one?

[goodmorning]

At best I can argue that she wouldn't be this blatantly bad as scum, but even then shooting her is still fun.

I really hope that you're Scum.

[goodmorning]

And, in case people don't remember this - Wake hammered the town fucking cop d2.

See, things like this make me think you're either stupid or Scum, and I know you're not stupid.

[goodmorning]

And, in case people don't remember this - Wake hammered the town fucking cop d2.

See, things like this make me think you're either stupid or Scum, and I know you're not stupid.

How does reminding the town of wake's bad move, make him scum when he is trying to argue for a lynch of wakes slot?

Everyone else on that wagon is equally complicit. The hammer carries no more weight than any other vote.
So you're equally complicit, and TSO, and SilverWolf, and Ozgin, and Shinobi. All carry equal weight.

TSO's I might actually weight heavier given how hard he pushed it.

[goodmorning]

But, you know, he can be a hypocrite if he wants to be.

[goodmorning]

Marquis already claimed, please read.

TSO, stop with the AtE, it's getting really irritating.

If we're massclaiming we'd better massclaim.

[goodmorning]

How can you 'refine' a VT claim???

idgi

[goodmorning]

Spoiler: Sample PM

Citizen

Welcome XXX you are a

Citizen

Your abilities
-You have the all important power of voting

goal: Eliminate all threats to the town

K.

[goodmorning]

Anyway you should claim now, since Marquis is popcorning to you and apparently that's what we're doing.

[goodmorning]

I'm being silly. Popcorn.

[goodmorning]

How was he supposed to refine the words that he literally said????

p-Edit: We may as well, given that like half of us are claimed already anyway.

[goodmorning]

I'm PR. I'll specify which when elusive clarifies her claim.

[goodmorning]

Not me. It can only be a bad idea, but I can't

wait

to see what goodmorning claims.

It really can't, if you think you'd like to kill me and it's unlikely that any other Town PRs exist.

[goodmorning]

There isn't a 0% chance you are what you claim to be.

Either way, my claiming means everyone knows that you know what I am so that if you decide to kill me anyway you can be judged for it.

[goodmorning]

VOTE: pisskop

For replacing into a scum slot.

It seems rather bizarre House called pisskop out on this given that pisskop was one of four replacements.

I get this was RVS, but still.

I said that like 2 Days ago and nobody gave a shit.

2 Docs plus unlimited BP on Town's side? TSO, if you are SK you should scumread the shit out of elusive.

Actually maybe elusive BPSK?

Regardless, I'll claim now.

Town Neighbouriser. Aero and SilverWolf can confirm.

[goodmorning]

Yep. Confirmed.

Why did it never open again, though GM?

I'm a 1-Day only variant, apparently.

@elusive: I Neighbourise people.

I don't see why it couldn't.

It's very possible for you to be SK and BP. BP is a reasonably common modifier for SKs because it's pretty hard to win as SK without help.

[goodmorning]

@elusive: What don't you understand about a Neighbouriser?

[goodmorning]

GM, which night did you take which action?

I believe I Neighbourised Aero N2 and SilverWolf N4. It took effect at the beginning of the successive Day in each case.

Why haven't you added more people or are you limited shot?

I'm not going to answer this.

And then its possible that you can neighborize scum so why are you certain of both people being town?

The townreads came first. Having chatted with them has reinforced the townreads which already existed. Confirming myself to people as a weak PR still means I'm confirming myself as a PR, and moreover a PR that's most usually held by Town, which means if I confirm myself to Scum it might make me a target. Mainly I've been playing it as a Friendly Neighbour. The chatting is just a bonus.

The reason I read TSO in ISO before anyone else was because I was considering Neighbourising him but ultimately I decided he looked too scummy for me to take that chance.

[goodmorning]

Wait, goodmorning, walk me through your thought process there?

You didn't want to get me in a PT if you thought I was scum so you could firm up your read and then push it? Instead, you picked your townreads, and then with them and you in the PT you did ???

Mainly I've been playing it as a Friendly Neighbour. The chatting is just a bonus.

I'm thinking the neighborizing thing again. Is it possible for a fake claim from the scum where their buddies verifies it? I'm not sure how likely that is but it makes me wonder.

It's probably possible.
Not very good strategy though.

[goodmorning]

Shimobi is trying

awfully hard

to make ABR's no-result a thing.

[goodmorning]

Shimobi is trying

awfully hard

to make ABR's no-result a thing.

Already noted by someone else but still meaningless.

If you had votes on you and one of our information roles claimed a check on you, you'd be doing the exact same thing.

Yes, except that Tracker is meaningless and, as unreliable as ABR proved, is doubly meaningless.

Also, random question. What Non-SK neutral killers are accepted in Normal Large?

SKs are the only accepted 3p (that is, non-groupscum) in Normals.

Elusive and GM are literally shoveling so much shit in my driveway that it has to be impossible for other people to not see it.

Literally everything that happens in thread - they use as ammo. They're not interested in my answers to anything because they don't care.

I really don't know what you're talking about here.

P-Edit: Yup, dragon is definitely Town.

[goodmorning]

Well, there's the strategy that says if you leave the SK alive then crosskills can still happen.

[goodmorning]

Well, no, worst case is he's an SK not on a leash. Or groupscum. Actually he's more likely to be groupscum than he is to be SK at this point, imo.

[goodmorning]

ctually he's more likely to be groupscum than he is to be SK at this point, imo.

With who?

1. I don't do associatives before flips.
2. Mafia>SK is not an equation that includes the 'Town' possibility.

-Why the fuck did I kill Boonskiies n1 if I'm the SK?

Something is wrong with this but I can't see what.

Why do I have to address this bullshit instead of directing the town like I should be? Jesus.

Because you're wrong about me and probably wrong about Marquis, Shinobi, Aero too.

You also killed obvTown Math so no Town directing for you.

TSO maybe you should focus your ire on little old Shinobi since you're safe for today and that one is about to hit the chopping block because he can respond with "you tell me" but he can't be effed to make a case on his scum reads. Any of the three of them.

As for Marquis, maybe if you *GASP* built an actual case instead of thinking that spouting of one liners was somehow miraculous, town might care.

Y E S

He's got a voting bloc who won't lynch him, dragon. {Marquis, goodmorning, Aeronaut, Ozgin} straight up won't. Shinobi and elusive probably won't. That's a majority right there.

Anyone in this list who's town; you need to be fully aware you're tossing the game if you refuse to vote Marquis.

This is heading past annoying into the territory of 'you can fuck right off.'

Do you not see the validity of my arguments against GM/elusive or no?

I'll ask again: what arguments?

Plus, she hasn't clarified her role at all - she neighbourised 2 people in one day and after that the 'hood never re-opened? Because that's town?

YOU ARE NOT READING

GM, which night did you take which action?

I believe I Neighbourised Aero N2 and SilverWolf N4. It took effect at the beginning of the successive Day in each case.

YOU CAN FUCK RIGHT OFF

Also why not shoot Marquis if you're so confident?

He'll be dead today.

You've just admitted that he won't, as too many people won't vote for him.
Your thought processes are irritatingly inconsistent.

goodmorning's role is completely unclear and she needs to clarify it the fuck up.

OR YOU COULD JUST FUCKING READ IT THE FIRST TIME TYVM

Lynching likely scum is far better than shooting likely scum. It's more difficult to lynch likely scum because the scumteam can try to disrupt it. So, if we can be successful with our lynch, and trust in the guy who's 1/2 for scum shots, we're more likely to hit 2 scum than not.

HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

I TRUST YOU

NOT AT ALL

YOUR EGO MAKES YOU AN IDIOT

I really don't like that the wagons have been so cleanly forced into a dichotomy.

[goodmorning]

@Shinobi:

Elusive and GM are literally shoveling so much shit in my driveway that it has to be impossible for other people to not see it.

Literally everything that happens in thread - they use as ammo. They're not interested in my answers to anything because they don't care.

I really don't know what you're talking about here.

Do you not see the validity of my arguments against GM/elusive or no?

I'll ask again: what arguments?

[goodmorning]

@Shinobi:

Elusive and GM are literally shoveling so much shit in my driveway that it has to be impossible for other people to not see it.

Literally everything that happens in thread - they use as ammo. They're not interested in my answers to anything because they don't care.

I really don't know what you're talking about here.

Do you not see the validity of my arguments against GM/elusive or no?

I'll ask again: what arguments?

We've fought on this repeatedly already.

What arguments then? Please quote them.

[goodmorning]

No. Read the thread.

This will be the end of me explaining my arguments to you.

I DID

YOU HAVE NOT ACTUALLY SAID ANYTHING COHERENT AGAINST ME

[goodmorning]

at least my reads aren't fucking diabolically bad.

Except that they are.

No. Read the thread.

This will be the end of me explaining my arguments to you.

I DID

YOU HAVE NOT ACTUALLY SAID ANYTHING COHERENT AGAINST ME

Not how it looks fmpov. I see a crazy person trying to lynch me because of "revisionist history" and "tracker claims lol," both of which I thought that I had adequately explained, relevancy aside.

It's kind of like a merry-go-round. I scumread you, I explained why, and then you thought it was wrong and scumread me. And then I tried to explain and it seemed like you just kept going with it, so I thought that was scummy...Etcetera.

Bizarrely, I still cannot find any instances of you saying anything coherent against me. The only explanation you have ever given for scumreading me is the following:
'Well, gm medium-scumread two people who were fighting last time we played and she was Scum. Now she medium-scumreads three people who haven't really done anything that could be described as fighting despite my claim that they have, so I think she's Scum again (even though 1 experience doesn't make a trend).'

that does not make sense

[goodmorning]

Fighting is, by definition, a back-and-forth. Nothing of that nature has occurred between you and Kitz, and only one small skirmish between you and Ozgin. I really didn't want to have to waste my time proving it, but apparently I have to.

Sniping at someone does not equal fighting.

[goodmorning]

Fighting is, by definition, a back-and-forth. Nothing of that nature has occurred between you and Kitz, and only one small skirmish between you and Ozgin. I really didn't want to have to waste my time proving it, but apparently I have to.

Sniping at someone does not equal fighting.

Even if you don't agree with Kitz (despite the fact that she's still voting me for whatever reason) there's no reason for you not to realize that the spat that happened between Ozgin and me was similar to the one between uctriton and me, even if you think it's not exactly the same.

Given that your fight with uct was long and large and loud, going so far as to be THE 1v1 for Days, and that your fight with Ozgin was small and soft and silent, and lasted only for ~7 posts from each of you...

They really couldn't be less similar if you tried.

P-EDIT: T S O

FUCKING READ

[goodmorning]

Why are people voting for Aeronaut? @Everyone

No idea.

@GM - Why does my fighting with Shinobi

even matter to you?

Why does the

magnitude

of our fight even matter to you?

Shinobi claims that (A) there was fighting amongst the three of you (you, Shinobi, Kitz) and that (B) me medium-scumreading the three of you for completely unrelated reasons therefore makes me Scum.

The magnitude of your fight matters not at all to me, excepting that Shinobi is attempting to justify (B) with it.

[goodmorning]

She's learned the art of subtlety.

Since when have I played the subtle game?

I mean, I guess I'm a fan of the sleight-of-hand redirect, but that's about it.

I must have missed where you scumread us three, can you direct me to where you did that, or refresh me on what those "completely unrelated reasons"?

It was in my last reads post which is slightly outdated at this point. The reasons will be in various places if I did so choose to share them.

[goodmorning]

So you don't wanna share the reason for your reads?*** -Fix

Some of them, no. Some of them, yes.

[goodmorning]

I don't even know what the point of me doing anything in this game is anymore.

[goodmorning]

Facepalmcat has never been more appropriate than right now.

[goodmorning]

It's likely to be goodmorning, Kitz or elusive.

elusive is unlikely to be a Town BP anyway what with the whole '2 Docs' thing.

I don't know why I even bother.

[goodmorning]

we have three n1 kills proven. there is moderator precedence to back up viking's protected claim

I wish you were here when the Cop got lynched for claiming that.

goodmorning? You can prepare your apology.

Fuck off. You're still wrong on me and you're still wrong on Shinobi.

There is literally 0 reason not to shoot elusive if Aeronaut flips scum here.

Zero.

ELUSIVE IS FUCKING CLAIMED BULLETPROOF

JESUS CHRIST

[goodmorning]

I could actually agree with a shot on Kitz. That would probably determine whether I'm right about Shinobi or TSO is.

[goodmorning]

Straight up; I went for the goodmorning kill because Aeronaut was so against it, because I've thought she's scum all game, and because she was one of the people pushing the counterwagon to Aeronaut. Nothing happened.

oh fuck off

maybe i should have neighbourised you last night after all just so i could shout at you

If GM has neighborized again, that person should confirm it again today.

I didn't.

Anyway I'm not BP or anything, as far as I can tell there's no reason TSO shouldn't have been able to kill me, unless maybe Math was actually killed by the Mafia and TSO is in some way incapable of killing Town but that sounds a little too OP to be true.

So that means some kind of block/protect. RB, JK, something like that.

I have one question : Is either of these roles possible in Normal? Kill visitors, Multi-Direction-Shot.

I don't think so.

I'm totally chill with an elusive lynch today.

[goodmorning]

for the longest time I though you were the vig and I'm not the only one

This is why elusive is SK. It's not only the BP claim though that does help.

Gm why didn't you neighorize anyone again?

Because I didn't feel there was much point.

Now elusive is changing claim again? GROSS.

WOW THIS FIGHT

SW: You've been absent in ways which aren't related to V/LA (which is a thing that I said like Yesterday, sooooo....)
e: I was V/LA, fuck off
SW: bitch
e: no u

Can you guys not, please? There's no particular reason to be angry.

Also tbqh I probably wouldn't tell anyone else on this playerlist to fuck off except tso because I know he can deal with it.

@elusive: A claimed Vig is a really obvious target to block, js.

[goodmorning]

The idea of your wagon got dropped too fast and it bothers me but for lack of it being discussed, what do you think of elusive?

[goodmorning]

Because I didn't feel there was much point.

VOTE: Goodmorning

I'm sorry but the paranoia has overflown.
By not expanding, you make sure to keep to a "certain group of players".

If I were you, I'd continue with more players to prove it's not just a scum team and that anyone can be part of.

It's not a group. Me and the person I Neighbourise get a thread that's only open the Day after the Night I Neighbourise them in.

Has this not been clear?

[goodmorning]

All of those have been asked and answered at least twice each.

[goodmorning]

@elusive: I don't understand why this is difficult for you. If I can remember who TSO claims to have targeted you can probably remember who I've claimed to have targeted.

The questions you asked have not only been asked before, but asked

by you

before.

@TSO: I really don't think SilverWolf is Scum.

[goodmorning]

@GC: TSO is a claimed Vig and thus probably actually Vig, though he could be SK.
I'm a claimed Neighbouriser.

There was a sort-of massclaim, pretty much everyone has claimed VT.

[goodmorning]

Which is why I said 'pretty much everyone' and not 'everyone'.

[goodmorning]

POST I WROTE RIGHT AS THE THREAD GOT LOCKED:

@TSO: I really don't think SilverWolf is Scum.

Like I said, I agree. Meaning it's you or Ozgin.

It really isn't me.

I know, I know, you didn't manage to kill me. You're an obvious block target though.

GM, people ask for others to repeat answers for many reasons. One of them is to see if the answer if phrased differently. It helps if town answers questions and what has irked me about Shinobi is his refusal to answer direct questions.

Which is why I'll repeat anything once. After that it gets a little dull.

Besides which we all know that's not why you asked again.

Won't lynch: Cheetory6, Aeronaut
Could lynch: Marquis, dragonspawn, SilverWolf
Would lynch: Shinobi, Ozgin, Kitz
Should lynch: T S O, elusive

This is kind of where my head is at right now.

Meh, found this so I guess just ISOing is useful after all.

To revise the list based on events since then:
Won't lynch: T S O, SilverWolf
Could lynch: Marquis, dragonspawn, Cheetory6
Would lynch: Shinobi, Ozgin, Kitz
Should lynch: elusive

One of her scum ticks is that she and her buddy post one after the other.

...seriously?

It's not a group. Me and the person I Neighbourise get a thread that's only open the Day after the Night I Neighbourise them in.

Has this not been clear?

The issue is that you have a select amount of players floating about in the neighbourhood.
Potentially, all of these could be scum with you, faking the concept of neighbourhood.

No, it's a new thread every time. Me and the person I Neighbourise get a thread that opens ONE DAY ONLY.

I don't know how I can make this clearer.

GM, why we're you town reading aero so strongly?

Meta mostly. Probably a lot of confbias. A little bit of him having similar thoughts.

the hints do fit in line with a bulletproof sk preparing to potentially claim vig,

That's what I said.

I'm clearly town

lol

i have priorities and i don't much care for the gm distraction at the moment. the elusive wagon

needs

to go through.

you think the Commuter claim is a lie?

You think it's true? You think elusive lied in massclaim instead? Even though there's no difference in her situation between then and now?

Especially after all that ABR nonsense?

@elusive 5760: Trying to pretend that similar situations always can't be applied to each other is quite incorrect. I used the concept to catch emeraldemon in N1451.

We all have personal experiences that affect the way we play whether we discuss them or not. At least SilverWolf's being open about this one.

[goodmorning]

Are you saying you think GC is Scum?

[goodmorning]

Are you saying you think GC is Scum?

Is the reason because "SW is town"?
The reason of that was pure based on meta, it's not something I'll take in consideration.

I Neighbourised SilverWolf. If you think I'm Scum who is only Neighbourising Scum and we are all stupid enough to claim it, then you must therefore truly believe that slot is Scum.

The thing about you seem to have "magically vanished" too. Why ain't you dead? You're supposed to be dead because of T S O.

I'll say again, TSO is an obvious blocking target for Scum.

Ohhhh by the way Elusive flipped a Commuter, if you forgot.

In case you didn't notice the line at the top of that post, I wrote it right as the thread got locked.
That elusive lied in massclaim is shitty, possibly even shittier than what ABR did. I think we'll not be playing together again for quite some time.

Aaaand why are we even pushing for SK's? Why is T S O off the radar on that one? We have a Vig or a potential SK under control, so the whole attack on Elusive made no sense.

Whose attack on elusive? If there were three kill attempts N1 then the logical answer is an SK.

all we know of is an opposing mere goon and a roleblocker.

Exactly. Scum probably has something quite strong that we haven't seen yet based on the massive OP-ness of Town.

Where does a Neighbour fit in with such a powerful setup? Vigi seems just as unlikely, but Neighbour is far unlikely now.

Who the fuck knows? It's ika, don't expect his Normals to conform to what we think is usual.

The lack of kills, and eventual lack of protection, doesn't warrant an excuse of you living.

What part of "TSO WAS A LIKELY TARGET FOR BEING BLOCKED" don't you get?

also kitz the neighborizer itself is pretty dumb to doubt exists. whether the role as gm is/is using it is town or scum is the main issue

Wouldn't a flip help in any case? T S O attempted to kill, and failed.

TSO WAS A LIKELY BLOCK TARGET

ffs

[goodmorning]

Like, if I am claiming that my role has LITERALLY NOTHING TO DO WITH ME BEING ALIVE, my flip will NOT tell you why I am not dead.

[goodmorning]

Do people think Ozgin really hammered his partner after yesterday?

Scum hammer Scum all the time for all kinds of reasons. There's no reason the hammer necessarily came from Town.

[goodmorning]

I don't see a world where we go "okay, we just lynched mafia. Let's lynch the people on the right wagon."

There are so many things wrong with this I don't really know where to start.

Would you say, for instance, that on D2 the viking wagon was the 'wrong' wagon?

[goodmorning]

The viking wagon was fairly highly contested, just not by quite enough people for it not to happen.

[goodmorning]

Or is 10 on and 8 off not highly contested enough for you to count it?

[goodmorning]

On a different note, I've been going through the VCs to see if anything sticks out.

- TSO is unlikely to be groupscum, though this isn't really a new idea.
- dragon also unlikely to be groupscum.
- need to check and see why Pisskop got off Kitz wagon between 947 and 1051.
- why did Aero tunnel Marquis D4 but not D5?

That's about it.

p-edit:
@Shinobi: I hope that when you say 'when mafia is at stake' you don't mean 'when it's going to be/could be mafia lynched.'

[goodmorning]

@Shinobi: Every Town player thinks that the person they are voting is Mafia. There is no difference before the lynch happens. Every vote has Mafia at stake, even if they flip Town.

Trying to look at votes on Mafia differently just because they happened to be right is like thinking someone who guesses your "I'm thinking of a number from 1 to 10" did something differently than the people who didn't guess it.

They didn't do anything different. They had the same motivations, etc, etc.

(If I was Scum I'd use this to push you as having a clear disconnect from the Town thought process.)
(but ftr I think you're just wrong about this particular item of theory.)

[goodmorning]

@Shinobi: Every Town player thinks that the person they are voting is Mafia. There is no difference before the lynch happens. Every vote has Mafia at stake, even if they flip Town.

Trying to look at votes on Mafia differently just because they happened to be right is like thinking someone who guesses your "I'm thinking of a number from 1 to 10" did something differently than the people who didn't guess it.

They didn't do anything different. They had the same motivations, etc, etc.

(If I was Scum I'd use this to push you as having a clear disconnect from the Town thought process.)
(but ftr I think you're just wrong about this particular item of theory.)

This post just made me wanna neighbourise tso so...

[goodmorning]

I don't agree with you GM, and I don't really care about what you have to say about it because I'm going to continue scumhunting this way.

So you didn't think viking was lying Scum when you voted him then? You knew he was Town and voted him anyway?

I wouldn't push you on this if I didn't mean it. And again, this isn't meant to be used as any part of a case; it's all theory stuff.

[goodmorning]

- need to check and see why Pisskop got off Kitz wagon between 947 and 1051.

In process of search this came up:

Hey Kitz, why are you still voting a claimed PR?

Could be coaching or could just be Aero trying to look useful.

Pisskop doesn't state any diminishing suspicions of Kitz, just heightened ones of elusive, saying she was pursuing LHF and being defensive and antagonistic. (1025)
He votes for Kitz in 917 for no apparent reason. Right before his vote, he said the following to House: "What makes you refer to a post 30 pages ago as your sole reason to vote [for Aero]? And why did it come right after the flashwagon on Kitz?"
His only mention of Kitz near that is in 918 which is more coaching than casing.
-"Why haven't you considered his playstyle from prior games? Or what other players say about his meta?"
-"Is the use of meta a good or bad thing?"
-"What are your town/scum reads?"
In 926 he tells House he voted Kitz "because I'm unsure if Elusive's VOTE: on you is some kind of bussing or what. If you don't want the focus on Kitz then that's where I think it should be atm."
Which, wtf?

His vote on Kitz was his first mention thereof.

In 1440, he suggests that a Kitz lynch could be informative.

[goodmorning]

This is what I really want to be talking about.

[goodmorning]

Right now I'm trying to talk to Shinobi in a language he understands - in this case, analysing people's voting patterns and going more in-depth when something looks weird.

I may not trust him but I trust TSO and TSO trusts him, so we're gonna make this shit work.

[goodmorning]

And me?

[goodmorning]

the biggest question mark I have is would scum house replace?

Given that he replaced out because of a disagreement with the mod, I'd say his replace-out is pretty non-indicative.

[goodmorning]

@Shinobi: what do you think about what I said about Pisskop interactions with Kitz the other day?

[goodmorning]

@Ozgin:

And me?

[goodmorning]

This game is going slow this weekend.

Games usually go slowly over the weekends.

[goodmorning]

@Shinobi: what do you think about what I said about Pisskop interactions with Kitz the other day?

[goodmorning]

@Ozgin: Or TSO was blocked?

[goodmorning]

Yes, yes, but I want to talk about it.

[goodmorning]

Do you think scum would suggest an information lynch on their own partner? Why does pisskop suggesting an information lynch on Kitz make her scum?
Why does pisskop voting Kitz for no reason make her scummy?

I don't think he

was

suggesting an info lynch on Kitz. He voted Kitz with 0 explanation. It was never ever explained.
That makes it look like he put his vote there solely to distance.

Why is that interaction only coaching instead of anything else at all?

Well, it certainly isn't an explanation of his vote for Kitz, and seeing as he hadn't said anything to her before it's not a continuation of a line of questioning. It's not a case. What else could 918 be?

Like I said, Aero's 988 could just be fill on his part. But 918 is something else.
In 918 he runs a couple missed questions by viking. He makes bits of a case on elusive. And then he asks Kitz some softball questions.

The whole time he 's been saying elusive would be a decent lynch. He's given actual reasons to vote elusive. Yet he's voting Kitz, whom he's said nothing about and hasn't given reasons to be voting.

It looks like distancing.

[goodmorning]

EBWOP: It was never ever explained; calling it an info lynch would at least have explained it in some small way but he never called it one.

[goodmorning]

Why are you not mentioning the stuff about House and me, and why not quoting this? If you want to consider scumreading me on associations...

I'm voting Kitz because I'm unsure if Elusive's on you is some kind of bussing or what. If you don't want the focus on Kitz then that's where I think it should be atm.

What stuff about House and you?

I literally quoted that exact thing.

gm, what do you think of Ozgin?

I wouldn't cry if we lynched him.

[goodmorning]

@Shinobi: Well ok.

[goodmorning]

I think House was telling 100% truth in 11 and 931.

Discuss.

[goodmorning]

I think it's possible. Of you think house is scum are you voting for oz?

I don't think I'm voting for anyone at the moment, but yes, Ozgin is a vote I'd be pleased to make. I'm just waiting on a VC first. I don't think he's L-1 but it's nice to be sure.

Why would he do that though? :/

Because he was feeling a little bit cocky, why else?
It's perfectly in keeping with what I know of him.

[goodmorning]

ika

stop getting pagetops if you're not going to put votecounts in themmmmmmm

what are you talaking about?

[goodmorning]

We have five days to a deadline and most of the living people haven't voted. What up with that? We can't even analyze votes since no one is bothering to vote. If town manages to win this game we so dont deserve it

If analysing votes is your #1 way of scumhunting you should try something new.

Anyway we have time and I'm interested to see what TSO says when he gets back.

[goodmorning]

Different neighbourhoods Shinobi, how many times do I have to say it????

[goodmorning]

It's obviously of some use, given that Neighbourhoods are sometimes capable of making associatives weird.

[goodmorning]

w t f

Right, so one of GC and TSO is SK. I'm guessing GC is SK because otherwise SW would have CC'd. It's possible that there are 2 Vigs given the ridiculousness that is Cop+Dep+Track, but I sort of doubt it.

@GC: Claim your (SW's) N1 target.

@Kitz: Ozgin/SW don't claim Neighbours as Scum probably.
Stop trying to Burden of Proficiency people, it's fallacious and silly.

[goodmorning]

Right, so it isn't 2 Vigs because if it was one of them would be claiming the Boon kill (I assume Scum tried to kill the Cop claim for reasons that should be obvious).

So one of them is an SK. And it's GC.

Also, 3-Shot? Really? In a setup full of fulls and non-consecutives?

That said, we should leash GC. Crosskills will help us.

[goodmorning]

Groupscum doesn't claim Vig, dragon.

[goodmorning]

elusive got modkilled in the same decision that led to you replacing innnnnnnnn

[goodmorning]

which ika needs to update in the OP!

[goodmorning]

elusive was modkilled in 5764 and you replaced in in 5767 so idek.

p-edit: it's been semi-out since before I replaced in I think.

[goodmorning]

Anyway elusive was a commuter so...

[goodmorning]

But you people think that SK would put himself in a 1v1 position outside of LYLO, so I guess y'all love not making sense.

Sure, if he thought he could win it.

But you people think that SK would put himself in a 1v1 position outside of LYLO, so I guess y'all love not making sense.

Yeah.

Why are we lynching the Sw slot?

We aren't. Neither GC nor TSO is likely to be groupscum in this situation, thus it doesn't make sense to lynch them today.

F U C K people please use some goddamned logic

NEITHER GC NOR TSO IS GROUPSCUM, THUS IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO LYNCH THEM TODAY

Ozgin is the 3-shot vig. His discussion in the PT looks super genuine, and I believe him 100%.

I claimed so scum would kill me tonight so I can get out of this game. And so you lot wouldn't lynch Ozgin today. But I'm not going to suffer a mislynch because town lynches a counter-claimer WHO HAS NO REASON TO FAKE COUNTERCLAIM.

If I see one more fucking fakeclaim in this game I am going to throw a fit.

[goodmorning]

that i believe, and is easily confirmable. it's near impossible that those two are groupscum together too. ozgin's play when tso claim was still being dealt with makes a shit ton of sense too now.

VOTE: tso

hi gm. why would we not lynch sk today?

Probably there are 3 Maf alive which means SK actually wants them dead as much as Town does at this point, and moreover can shoot them.

Something is weird in the pudding with SW's behaviour towards Ozgin/TSO but idk rn

[goodmorning]

Ozgin claims to have shot you but not successfully.

You also claim to have shot gm but not successfully.

Bizarrely, this would make TSO being JK'd the simplest option.

GC claimed, however, that elusive was N4 shot though who knows if that was true.

[goodmorning]

now that you mention it, I'm totally a seer.

HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[goodmorning]

@Marquis: I think the word I used was 'simplest.'

[goodmorning]

Wait, since when did we have doctors?

Boonskiies - Town Non-consecutive Doctor killed night 1

Nobody Special town Non-consecutive Doctor killed night 4[/color]

[goodmorning]

Vote: Kitz

My vote isn't moving. At all.

[goodmorning]

Where the heck is this concept of a Bp SK coming from?

dragon for conftown

[goodmorning]

The only reason I see for speculating that tso is a bullet proof serial killer is if you took took a shot at him and missed.

dragon for superconftown

[goodmorning]

I don't want to lynch either of them because I think they're unlikely to be groupscum.

If it comes down to deadline I'd hammer Ozgin but not TSO.

[goodmorning]

If either TSO or Ozgin/GC had claimed aiming for Boon then I'd have totally been down with the possibility of 2 Vigs, ftr.

P-Edit: I'm not completely aware of the D1 situation but TSO makes a point about pisskop.

[goodmorning]

Maybe I took a random shot because this is my first time being the vig, and I got both trigger-happy

and

lucky. Speculation as to why I took my shot is so fucking stupid, it's numbing.

Shooting randomly would be incredibly anti-Town, and thus a Town Vig would and should abstain from doing so.

Motivation is everything in this game. Speculation as to whether someone is telling the truth is also important.

[goodmorning]

On the other hand, expecting Town to fucking ACT LIKE TOWN this game has not been the best strategy, so there is that too.

[goodmorning]

Would Ozgin just randomly shoot pisskop though? Is that a believable thing?

In this game I could believe any horrible thing.

[goodmorning]

Why couldn't elusive have been the scumkill N3, for instance? Makes an equal amount of sense.

And, again, me not being dead N5 only makes sense if TSO was in some way blocked.

[goodmorning]

There's a day left on the deadline.

JK, another RB, a JOAT?

[goodmorning]

tso get down off your high horse

[goodmorning]

Ozgin being Scum means GC is probTown and we go back to the Ozginslot-pisskop-Kitz links.

Vote: Kitz

I'm not moving this vote unless someone gives me a very good reason to.

[goodmorning]

@Marquis: It's based totally on associatives.

[goodmorning]

- need to check and see why Pisskop got off Kitz wagon between 947 and 1051.

In process of search this came up:

Hey Kitz, why are you still voting a claimed PR?

Could be coaching or could just be Aero trying to look useful.

Pisskop doesn't state any diminishing suspicions of Kitz, just heightened ones of elusive, saying she was pursuing LHF and being defensive and antagonistic. (1025)
He votes for Kitz in 917 for no apparent reason. Right before his vote, he said the following to House: "What makes you refer to a post 30 pages ago as your sole reason to vote [for Aero]? And why did it come right after the flashwagon on Kitz?"
His only mention of Kitz near that is in 918 which is more coaching than casing.
-"Why haven't you considered his playstyle from prior games? Or what other players say about his meta?"
-"Is the use of meta a good or bad thing?"
-"What are your town/scum reads?"
In 926 he tells House he voted Kitz "because I'm unsure if Elusive's VOTE: on you is some kind of bussing or what. If you don't want the focus on Kitz then that's where I think it should be atm."
Which, wtf?

His vote on Kitz was his first mention thereof.

In 1440, he suggests that a Kitz lynch could be informative.

I think House was telling 100% truth in 11 and 931.

Discuss.

[goodmorning]

I should probably see if House claimed Scum with anyone other than Kitz.

[goodmorning]

Oh, and I Neighbourised TSO last Night but he's obviously dead so it didn't work.

[goodmorning]

holy shit guys

we are probably at 2v5 rn

o m g

[goodmorning]

I HAVE POSITIVE FEELINGS ABOUT THIS GAME FOR THE FIRST TIME IN FOREVER

[goodmorning]

Though I suppose it could be 3v4.

[goodmorning]

Unvote

guys

guys seriously why so quick

[goodmorning]

VOTE: shinobi

and gm we need to touch up on this. I let this read fall to the wayside with the TSO focus, but now that I'm feeling much much much more confident about my old reads around then I'm thinking this and/or kitz could be it.

I don't disagree, but I think there's more evidence for Kitz.

VOTE: shinobi

and gm we need to touch up on this. I let this read fall to the wayside with the TSO focus, but now that I'm feeling much much much more confident about my old reads around then I'm thinking this and/or kitz could be it.

I was the counterwagon to scum you imbecile.

Scum can also be the counterwagon to Scum.

I asked a million fucking times about 3P being something else than SK and all of you said SK is the only acceptable role.
This changes

everything

.

"The game should have at least one Mafia or Werewolf group (of at least two members). A second anti-town group can be given a separate Mafia family name, or can be a Werewolf group. There should be no more than two mafia/werewolf factions, and no more than one Serial Killer."
-Normal Game

Everyone denied the "Visit Kill Role" suggestion.

OH LOOK A SCUMCLAIM

Also, seriously? I have screamed all this fucking game that Meta is bullshit. You're associating me with Piss out of the blue as an early bus, I counter-logiced it with the circumstance that something's wrong with House and you should look there instead, and now you use House Meta against me? That's some meta bullshit right there.

Nobody's said anything about anyone's meta.

kitz: goodmornign
ozgin: Cheetory6, kitz, dragon, T S O, ozgin
T S O: Marquis, green crayons [l-2]

9 alive, 5 lynch

(expired on 2015-04-21 21:00:00)

Who isn't voting in this VC?

Shinobi.

[goodmorning]

OH LOOK A SCUMCLAIM

How is that a scum claim? I think you're just tunneling me at this point.
If this was a scum claim, I'd be all like "Hey fucks, I'm the actual serial killer".

I didn't even consider a reflexive element to the SK as being a possibility, though it does seem the logical conclusion now it's been brought up.

You

knew

there was one. So, looking back, did Ozgin.

I don't disagree, but I think there's more evidence for Kitz.

How about, shut up? Your tunneling is rather blatant and annoying now, with excuses and tunnel-slips everywhere.
If you want to get me, be more constructive and stop contradicting yourself.

There's no need to be rude.
I know it sucks being caught by associative cases, but there's really no call for that.

I should probably see if House claimed Scum with anyone other than Kitz.

Meta 1. This is Your piece of the meta. Otherwise, you wouldn't see it as a meta thing, it's a House related thing.

I was saying I should see if House claimed Scum with anyone other than you IN THIS GAME.
If he did it would dial down the likelihood of you being Scum.
That's not even close to meta. That's solely in-game actions.

house busses his scum buddies like crazy when he is scum. I can see his sarcastic comments being truthful

Meta 2.

That's not meta being used to say something new, it's just confirming that an existing point isn't impossible.

Nobody's saying "House always claims Scum with his buddies lol."

Except none of that is true.

No, you do perhaps reserve your vote a tad too much.

[goodmorning]

Stop turning logic against me.

Seriously?

[goodmorning]

So, Shinobi, what do you think? Scumslip or no?

[goodmorning]

That depends; are reflexive vigilantes a thing or no?

I honestly don't know the roles too well here on MS.

They're not. Reflexive as a modifier is rare.

Mass murderer is also not a thing.

[goodmorning]

How ika got this approved as Normal is slightly beyond me at this point.

[goodmorning]

Huh.

From what I can find, 'Mass Murderers' kill their target & whoever visits that target. Targets and visitors can both be saved by Doctors.

[goodmorning]

Unless they target themselves in which case they kill whoever visits them.

[goodmorning]

3weird5me

[goodmorning]

Can someone explain to me what the reflexive modifier is, and how it relates to N1 and what Kitz said or didn't say?

Reflexive means you target someone who targets you.

N1 saw 3 kill shots, 1 of which was unsuccessful because the target was protected (and informed of such) (which got him lynched) (even though he was obviously telling the truth).

The rest should be obvious if you've read the last couple pages.

oh ok

boon claimed mainly doc, but possibility of other PRs day 1

so pisskop had reason to roleblock boon, and tso had reason to kill boon

so piss died because he also visited boon?? i think

wow this solves things a lot more nicely

also this role is pretty far removed from normal role interactions so ugh tso got by only on the double kill there

I don't know what was going on D1 but this would make sense, especially if Mafia have another blocking-type role (for use to block the Cop).
Boon would normally have not died because of being elsewhere but if he was RB'd then I guess he'd still be home and NS protected viking.
I wonder if 'Neighbourising' counts as leaving for the purposes of TSO's role.

[goodmorning]

@Shinobi: 3 kills N1, probably.

[goodmorning]

@GM:

did you ever state why, in thread, you neighborized SW?

I was playing it like a Friendly Neighbour. I Neighbourised SilverWolf because I felt reasonably certain she was Town.

@Marquis: I'll go find where dragon towned hard so that you can see it. It completely reversed my opinion of him.

[goodmorning]

Now that I'm thinking about it, late in D5 I did threaten to Neighbourise TSO N5.

(While I'm looking for that quote, what was up with Kitz's attempted push for "you saw him crumb ages ago and now he's dead omg" 4315)

(I can't find that quote so maybe I imagined saying it but who else do you Neighbourise other than an un-CC'd Vig?)
I did find this:

Straight up; I went for the goodmorning kill because Aeronaut was so against it, because I've thought she's scum all game, and because she was one of the people pushing the counterwagon to Aeronaut. Nothing happened.

oh fuck off

maybe i should have neighbourised you last night after all just so i could shout at you.

@Marquis: dragon post is 4518.

[goodmorning]

Was working on VC stuff all yesterday.

People who rendered slightly less suspect by dint of VC stuff:
dragon
Shinobi

People who are rendered less suspicious by dint of role stuff:
GC

People who are rendered less suspicious by in-game stuff:
Marquis

So my lynch pool for today is Cheetory and Kitz. Given my fairly strong and lasting townread on Cheetory, it's Kitz for me or no-one.

[goodmorning]

People who rendered slightly less suspect by dint of VC stuff:
dragon
Shinobi

Why are Shinobi in that part?

Composition of the early TSO wagon iirc. I don't have that doc open atm though.

[goodmorning]

People who rendered slightly less suspect by dint of VC stuff:
dragon
Shinobi

Why are Shinobi in that part?

Composition of the early TSO wagon iirc. I don't have that doc open atm though.

Elaborate. Composition? Doc?

Composition is what something is made of.
Doc is short for document.

People who rendered slightly less suspect by dint of VC stuff:
dragon
Shinobi

Why are Shinobi in that part?

Composition of the early TSO wagon iirc. I don't have that doc open atm though.

dot dot dot
I'm super curious as to what you have to say about this tbh.

Just that. In the VCs it peaked at:
T S O (6): Shinobi, Pisskop, Green Crayons, Aeronaut, vikingfan, Ellie
So we have a lot of info here.
? S pT S T T

It's mildly unlikely that pisskop directly follows a partner onto a wagon at that point in the game.
On the other hand, your position on the viking lynch is iffy now that I go look at it.
vikingfan (LYNCH): Dragonspawn, Nobody special, T S O, Green Crayons, Naked jogger, ABR, mathblade, ozgin, shinobi, Marquis
? T 3p pT T T T S ? ?
It typically takes more than one Scum to push a PR lynch through though that's by no means 100%. When we see this the jump on is usually at the end for that last bit of juice necessary to get it done.

Anyway I don't weight this very heavily. Votecounts get manipulated all the time.

@Marquis: dragon post is 4518.

What is it about this post that makes you think dragon is town?

The emotion rings true.

[goodmorning]

The nice thing is that I have a couple pretty good options of people to Neighbourise tonight.

[goodmorning]

I also have a fever so don't expect much coherence from me for a little while.

[goodmorning]

Didn't he?

[goodmorning]

She tried to retroactively tell us that she took a different night action

No, I didn't.

[goodmorning]

She tried to retroactively tell us that she took a different night action

No, I didn't.

That's not what this reads like.

Translation of that post:
TSO might possibly have sat home thinking I was going to come to him.


That said, it's still more likely that he was RB'd.

[goodmorning]

I don't claim to have made an action anywhere in that post.

[goodmorning]

In a different post, you claimed of having not neighbourized anyone the night T S O intended to attack you, because you did not feel like it.

Just saying.

Threatening to do something doesn't mean you're seriously considering it.

[goodmorning]

Vote: Kitz

Forgot I unvoted.

[goodmorning]

GM brought up votecounts about how I'm probably town, posted her findings and didn't come to a conclusion about anything. She brought up a votecount about how I voted TSO with Aeronaut and said how we probably weren't buddies only to turn around and say that me voting town in a TvT cross was scummy, and she couldn't draw a conclusion.

Like wtf? How is that town?

lololololololololololol

ALL ABOARD THE GOOD SHIP MISREP, MY FRIENDS

[goodmorning]

I said I didn't think it was very likely that groupscum would be pos1-2 on an early wagon. Sounds like a conclusion to me, one that doesn't reference Aeronaut in the slightest. In fact, none of my conclusions in that post have anything to do with Aeronaut. I also said nothing about TvT.
I also said that generally when Town PRs are lynched it takes an extra punch from Scum to push the lynch through at the finish, which means near the tail of a controversial Town PR lynchwagon is the most likely place to find multiple Scum, making you and Marquis mildly suspect for that.

I concluded by saying that I don't weight VCA heavily because Scum can and do manipulate their votes. Nowhere did I say that I couldn't draw a conclusion - in fact, you must have some sort of conclusion in order to have something to weight.

[goodmorning]

On another note, I pulled 27 VCs from D1-D4. You are voting in 15 of those, which is only slightly over half.
You are on an actual wagon in 4 of those. 3 on the initial TSO wagon and 1 on the final viking lynchwagon, hence why I pulled those two wagons to explain my analysis of you.
The other 12 consist of solo votes; 9 on Math (the entire rest of D1) and 3 on Cheetory (some of D2).

You did not appear on a single votecount during either D3 or D4.

All that said, based on the final VC of D5, KitzScum would 'clear' you pretty neatly. Cheetory's swap from you to Aero late in D5 looks weird, so I'll go look at that now.

[goodmorning]

Made a case on Shinobi, voted Shinobi, disappeared, came back, had no idea what was going on, unvoted, dithered, called out Shinobi, called out Aero, sheeped TSO and voted Aero.

Now

that

I can't really draw a conclusion from.

[goodmorning]

But by all means, let's lynch the last Town PR, even if it's a shitty one, on no case or reason besides "you didn't die omg."

[goodmorning]

“I saw with my own eyes the Sibyl of Cumae hanging in a jar, and when the boys said to her, 'Sibyl, what do you want?' she replied, 'I want to die.'”

[goodmorning]

I don't necessarily disagree.

[goodmorning]

What do you think of Kitz though?

[goodmorning]

Being a counterwagon doesn't make anyone anything.

[goodmorning]

Large Normals in particular (all wagons with >1 vote, from lynch to least):
NY178: T-T
NY177: T-T-T
NY176: T-T-T
NY175: T-T
NY174: M-M-T
NY173: M-T
NY172: T-T
NY171: T-T
NY170: T-T-T
NY169: T-M-M

So of the last 10 Large Normals, 7 had only wagons on Town at the end of D1.

D1 wagons in the last 10 Large Normals, for a start. I'll do more looking up later.

[goodmorning]

marq, dragon, and GM: how do you feel about the D5 counterwagons in relation to Shin's alignment?

I don't think it's necessarily that relevant unless Kitz is Scum. One Scum on a counterwagon to Scum could be a bus. Two is more likely Town.

GM am I town or scum?

I think you'd be the better person to ask that to.

I do think you lean Town.

D1 is its own special bird.

I don't disagree.

Spoiler: D1 Wagons >1 at Lynch, G>L

NY178: T-T
NY177: T-T-T
NY176: T-T-T
NY175: T-T
NY174: M-M-T
NY173: M-T
NY172: T-T
NY171: T-T
NY170: T-T-T
NY169: T-M-M

Spoiler: D2

NY178: T-T-T
NY177: M
NY176: T
NY175: T-T-M-T
NY174: T-T-T
NY173: T-T
NY172: M-T
NY171: M
NY170: T-M
NY169: T-M-T

Spoiler: D3

NY178: M-T
NY177: T-T-T
NY176: T
NY175: T-SK
NY174: T-T-T-T
NY173: T-T
NY172: M
NY171: M-T
NY170: M-T
NY169: M-T

Spoiler: D4

NY178: M-W
NY177: T-M
NY176: T
NY175: M-T
NY174: M-T
NY173: T-T
NY172: M-T-T
NY171: T-T
NY170: M-M-T
NY169: M-T-T

Spoiler: D5

NY178: W
NY177: T-T
NY176: M
NY175: SK
NY174: T-M
NY173: M
NY171: T-M
NY170: T-M
NY169: M-T

Spoiler: D6

NY178: W
NY177: T
NY176: T
NY175: T-T
NY174: T-M
NY173: T
NY171: M
NY170: M
NY169: T-T

Spoiler: D7

NY178: T
NY175: M
NY174: T-T
NY171: T
NY169: T-M

Spoiler: D8

NY174: T
NY171: T
NY169: T-M

Spoiler: D9

NY171: NL
NY169: M

Spoiler: D10

NY171: T

I'm now utterly astonished at the number of Days that end with only 1 wagon receiving more than 1 vote (slightly over 1/3).
69 lynch vcs sampled
24 single wagon lynch vcs
45 multiwagon lynch vcs
{19 only T
22 T + 1 Scum
4 2 Scum w or w/o T (1 diff factions)}

So 8.89% of Days ending in multiwagons will have multiScumwagons. Not quite as much as I thought it might be but not an insignificant number either.

[goodmorning]

I'm really glad my fairly baseless Cheetory townread was apparently right.

[goodmorning]

Now that I'm looking I think dragon's vote might have put Kitz at L-1.

Just so nobody derphammers.

[goodmorning]

At this point there's nothing I can say in a Neighbour thread that I wouldn't also be willing to say in the actual thread. I'm not very good at reading people via Neighbour thread either.

[goodmorning]

I'm not even going to dignify that with a response.

[goodmorning]

and yet you responded. If you are going to respond to it anyway you could put in an effort. You're not exactly one on my scum list but you aren't helping yourself in my eyes.

I've shared my night actions and my reasons behind them several times. I'm not going to repeat myself further.

[goodmorning]

Are we really doing the 1 hour to deadline thing?

[goodmorning]

You literally just lynched the (presumably) last Town PR! CONGRATS.

[goodmorning]

And if you don't lynch Kitz tomorrow I'm going to be DISAPPOINTED.

[goodmorning]

Or Marquis maybe. His voting's been mildly sketch.

[goodmorning]

I mean, I did post that I wished I were dead so I can't say I'm that bothered.

[goodmorning]

Could entertain Cheetory Scum on the basis of calculated risk but I'd like to think I was right about him so maybe not.

Shinobi is Town.

[goodmorning]

I'm really glad this game is over.

[goodmorning]

@Cheetory: I'm not so sure either elusive or NJ would have been easily mislynched, NJ in particular was only getting loudly scumread by a couple people but was a hard townread for several.
elusive could have been lynched on spec maybe.

@Shinobi: I don't take these things personally. Not my best deserved mislynch but I can understand it in a lot of ways.

[goodmorning]

idk, maybe i just feel like i feel because of my townread on him.

p-edit: well there's always going to be that one time that it's literally so stupid you can't cope with it.