NY 179: Cute and Fluffy Mafia (Town Win)

[I Am Innocent]

vote Albert B Rampage

for being scared of the scumputer

[I Am Innocent]

Even me....but I'm innocent!!!

[I Am Innocent]

This rvs sucks. Dragonspawn is the only townie here apparently.

gg

unvote Albert b rampage
Vote flubbernugget

RVS any better now?

[I Am Innocent]

hahahaha like she ever uses it anymore

What??? DGB is this true?

[I Am Innocent]

It's because of turtles...I mean, who doesn't love turtles?

[I Am Innocent]

Even tho it took him 2 guesses?

[I Am Innocent]

And the alternative to starting a game is [fill in the blank]

[I Am Innocent]

Talking, interacting, maybe discuss set up, what the title of the thread might mean, introducing yourself etc. All of these progress your reads of other players so far and provides the rest of town with information. There is quite a bit we could start on, it is not really that difficult to use your imagination.

Well set up is off limits this early in the game, cause that could lead to outing power roles.

But the rest I'm game. I'm town, I have nothing to hide. So talk to me, interact with me, show me how this is done.

Cause honestly, RVS works for me. I'm getting a feel for a few players...but if this helps you, let's do it.

[I Am Innocent]

I use to have a pet turtle. Asked my girlfriend once to watch him while my family went of vacation. Forgot to tell her that he ate live worms, and you had to keep them cool/refrigerate them. Thought that was going to be the end of the relationship. We're married now.

So did the OP hurt your turtle or something?

[I Am Innocent]

Hey Nero, ur obviously caught up, how about a vote? And since u hinted me, how about explaining why?

Not feeling TDA folks. My gut is feeling queasy over the following 4 players so far: flubbernugget, yuni, Nero, and pacman.

[I Am Innocent]

I <3 u too

[I Am Innocent]

Prod dodge, catch up today, tomorrow at the latest

[I Am Innocent]

Catch up post(s) coming, my apologies all for the delay in getting to this.

[I Am Innocent]

VOTE: TDA

Though I do find it very interesting that dragonspawn never called out TDA on his misrep and actually tried to argue it as a genuine case.

DGB hopping on the misrep is also yucky.

Are you attacking dragonspawn & DGB for attacking the person you are voting here?

VOTE: tda

I find quote editing scummy behavior so the best evidence we have so far is tda.

plus id like to see where this wagon goes.

What has this wagon showed you? Does the lack of a counterwagon make you feel any better or worse?

This is not the time for discussion. This is the time for quicklynch and hammertime.

Can anyone tell me if scum ABR would be this bold?

Flubber joins the list of people who don't know what and means.

When I get home I'm going to post an image of bill Clinton talking about the definition of the word "is" is. Until then vomit smilies to evilpacman and drippinggoofball for calling people scum but not voting or pressuring their suspicions.

This guy is town. So is dragonspawn and TDA to this point.

I'm happy to vote TDA but would rather the round last a bit longer as to give an opportunity to develop reads on other people rather than just revert back to RVS day 2 in order to generate more leads. I'm holding off changing my vote right now for that reason.

@TDA the reason your truncated quote of him was scummy is because it changed the context of the sentence to something he wasn't trying to say.

Who else do you suspect?

Do you think that he used the fact that he didn't know Nero as a reason for why he couldn't be buddies with Nero.

it would be difficult to be buddies with someone I don't know and still haven't interacted with.

Do you think scum talked before the game opened? Cause as someone who thinks strongly that Nero is scum, I'm guessing he chatted with his teammates before he

finished lurking and

posted in this game

all of course without a vote despite having a "gut scum read" of another player

.

Flubber is town.

Just curious how you've come to this wrong opinion. Please explain this read.

*****

thru page 8

[I Am Innocent]

Yunis 240 & 241 make me feel better about that slot. Agree with their not liking firebounds 238, which feels forced/trying to come off as townie.

Notice flubber's also calls that out in 257. less sure of my scum read there. :-/

I'm neighbours with Nero and d3x. d3x is probably town, so lynch Nero.
If that's not enough, look at Nero's posts.

D3x, can you confirm? D3x & TDA, how much has nero posted in there?

I need to say, in the neighbour QT, d3x started out by giving some out of game things that he wanted to talk about and they seemed like the sort of things that would be used to justify a lack of contributions. I attacked him for using out of game excused to preemptively justify lurking. He then said that they wouldn't afftect him this game, and then Nero acted eaither as though I should have been aware of those things in advance or that using out of game excuses isn't scummy. Either way, i don't think that it looks good for Nero, since the former is awful and out of game excuses is a pretty common scumtell. I think he was using the opportunity to buddy with d3x.

This makes alot of sense (scum nero buddying to town d3X) based on a game I can't quite talk about yet.

Neighbors eh? Well that explains TDAs obsession with Nero at the beginning. Problem is the assumption that since they are neighbors one or them must be scum. Last game I played with neighbors I was in a hood with pacman. Everyone assumed there had to be scum among us and there wasn't.

tell me, has Nero said anything there to indicate he is scum or are you just assuming one of you is scummy?

Did you start D1 with a neighborhood, or was it one where you recruit people? If the former, how many started in the neighborhood vs how many in the game?

I'd personally be shocked to see 3 townie with neighborhood powers and likely no other, giving scum free shots at the rest of town for stronger power roles. Just sayin'

@Everyone is the only neighborhood ? Because I feel this games theme may be about communication.

What town motivation do you have for asking this question?

*********

Town so far: PeaceBringer, dragon, AlternateAccount(?), TDA, Yuni, kid a, randomidget, d3x

Null: garmr, DGB, ARS, killapenwin, drake cusader, nakedjogger

Scummy: flubber(?), nero, pacman, firebound

Thru page 13

[I Am Innocent]

flubbernugget, yuni, Nero, and pacman.

Could you talk about these?

Yeah, flubber dropped a few early game scum tells, yuni for the whole fuss about not rvs'ing in her first post, nero was the weak opening post where he throws my name around, but doesn't vote for me (or anyone else despite being caught up). almost like he is waiting to see if someone else will take his bait. pacman's opening post and lack of a vote hasn't sat well with me.

holy **** those quoteception

really, this is all you have to add at this point?

I believe that's L-3 with 2 weeks left and 2 players that haven't posted even a single time.

While I think the outing of the Neighborhood was freaking stupid on Dude's behalf and Garmr should be ashamed for his part in it, I think the fallout points to TownDude. Scum would already know about the Hood if he was Scum. He'd have no reason to vomit that **** all over the thread.

Great point, d3x is town

If your assertion is that Dude is Scum... and he's

in

the Hood... well...?

You haven't caught on to my meaning have you. You are pushing the assertion that scum either had pregame chat or daytalk. It could be they didn't and his outing the neighborhood to his scum buddies so why the assumption they have day talk or pre game chat?

Can't remember a scum game I've ever played when I didn't have pre game chat.

That just doesn't track, man. I highly doubt the Neighborhood had pregame, but the Scum didn't. I also can't even remember a game where Scum didn't have pregame.

Yeah, definite town

Spoiler: @d3x

I believe that's L-3 with 2 weeks left and 2 players that haven't posted even a single time.

While I think the outing of the Neighborhood was freaking stupid on Dude's behalf and Garmr should be ashamed for his part in it, I think the fallout points to TownDude. Scum would already know about the Hood if he was Scum. He'd have no reason to vomit that shit all over the thread.

Scum cough up information when they feel pressured, as a distraction. Why would town vomit that **** all over the thread?

Welcome to my scum reads list.

@Jogger&Garmr- If he was legitimately getting DayVig'ed and felt that Nero was Scum based on interactions in the Hood, he'd want that info out there for Town. I don't agree with his assessment of what happened in the Hood, but I don't think he's misrep'ing it.

@Garmr- I just peeked at the QT and you guys actually did have pregame chat according to the time stamps. The QT was opened and you were welcomed by the Mod a day before she closed it for the start of D1 {which she announced}. According to the postgame, you didn't read your RolePM until halfway through D1. That doesn't mean you didn't have pregame, dude. That means you didn't read your RolePM; it was your choice to handicap yourself.

Yeah not liking the fact that Garmr is trying so hard to keep this wagon on TDA.

So TTA says that dragon is scum along with his RVS target, then dragon says something about buddying and things got repetitive and silly from there.

This was a lackluster, easy-to-blend-in-for-scum misunderstanding, and I hope someone cares to elaborate on what they found that was alignment-indicative about it and in what way.

Spoiler: @d3x

@Jogger&Garmr- If he was legitimately getting DayVig'ed and felt that Nero was Scum based on interactions in the Hood, he'd want that info out there for Town. I don't agree with his assessment of what happened in the Hood, but I don't think he's misrep'ing it.

That's a pretty far-fetched line of thought, which you could easily have confirmation or denial for if you'd ask him, which you didn't so..

VOTE: d3x

I'm ready to lynch this thing with fire.

******

pacman's 354 is better, but still don't like the lack of voting. Why no vote pacman?

And since u hinted me, how about explaining why?

For some reason I wasn't a big fan of 62.

Nice OMGUS on me. Thought I do like that Yuni read.

Well then you probably won't like that I have a town read on Yuni. Can't believe you drew scum twice in a row there, huh?

oh almost forgot, IAI wanted a vote so....

vote:IAI

Wasted vote noted.

*******

Not liking killapenwin's willingness to hammer if he has to, as he states in 360

Hows that lurking working out for you IAI?

I have literally norhing to comment on what is going on there is prob scum in the hood that isnt dex.

This is the part that makes me think TDA is town. Looks like he attacked D3x pregame in the neighborhood, meanwhile he started this game by attacking nero (trying to connect him with dragonspawn).

Why would scum in the neighborhood 1) attack his fellow neighborhooders & 2) want them lynched, which the quicker that happens the quicker it likely leads back to the scum in the neighborhood.

This TDA wagon is bad folks, the fact that a counterwagon hasn't sprung up, is further proof. Some teammate would be trying something...

Help me lynch the Dragon Spawn.

Take off your blinders dude, dragon is town.

7 votes still on thedudeabides... some things just do not change

This right here.

DGB hasn't moved her vote either.

That one vote on you is really bothering you, huh?

Why are you so lynch happy?

Game doesnt seem to be going anywhere

[/quote]

Pick one of Nero, firebound, and nakedjogger and let's get a flash wagon started. What do you say?

[I Am Innocent]

Updated

Town so far: PeaceBringer, dragon, AlternateAccount(?), TDA, Yuni, kid a, randomidget, d3x

Null: garmr, DGB, ARS, killapenwin, drake cusader, pacman

Scummy: flubber(?), nero, firebound, nakedjogger

[I Am Innocent]

Hey, anyone ever want two votes in a day?

Next person to vote Nero, firebound, or nakedjogger, gets my vote there too. Serious offer...let's get a flash wagon started people. Best way to catch scum.

Can you feel that power???? lol

[I Am Innocent]

Hey, anyone ever want two votes in a day?

Next person to vote Nero, firebound, or nakedjogger, gets my vote there too. Serious offer...let's get a flash wagon started people. Best way to catch scum.

Can you feel that power???? lol

GIMME

VOTE: firebound

unvote flubbernugget
Vote firebound

[I Am Innocent]

IAI-I have a serious question. Do you think that Dudes reasoning to suspect DX was good?

No it sucked, and it is not the reason I suspect u. But it's the motivation that I'm focusing on. Scum TDA should have zero motivation to go after his town neighbors.

Then I look at you and dex, and you two are going after non neighbors, which is what I'd expect out of scum. The fact that dex has come off as more townie, trying to stop the TDA wagon, and you semi coming after what I know to be a townie (me) has me suspecting that you are the scum in the neighborhood.

[I Am Innocent]

@dex, I just reread ur case and u make some good pts. The thing that comes to mind for me regarding pen is trying to come off as town (like not wanting the day to end too early).

I wish I could join you, but I did make my promise to give my vote to the next player who voted one of my three scum choices.

Let's make this interesting, if DGB moves to penwin, I'll follow her. In the meantime, will you and garmr ISO fire bound and consider joining us?

@everybody else, why don't you join one of these two wagons?

[I Am Innocent]

@Ren-or IAI is defending town TDA. I mean I do (kinda) like his "TDA is town 'cause no CW" thing but that's pretty much all.

Can you give me a valid reason why scum TDA would attack his two neighbors, as oppose to use them? If he is scum, that makes you both likely town, so what happens when they both flip town...who does that lead back to. Esp when that is his reasoning for attacking you:

I'm neighbours with Nero and d3x. d3x is probably town, so lynch Nero.
If that's not enough, look at Nero's posts.

What about D3x's comment on TDA announcing who was in the neighborhood when garmr faked dayvig him, what scum motivation (vs town motivation) was there for this comment, esp since it was likely scum had pregame chat since the neighborhood did?

@IAI-What was your reasoning to call me scum in 150?

Lurking is suspicious

I agree. Good thing I'm not doing that.

guts leaning scum on IAI.

not sure what to think about TDA yet.

Page 6, first post (lurking), no vote (RVS or otherwise), only read is on me (who I know is town, once again, why no vote, afraid to make enemies early?), only other comment is on TDA (nothing on anyone attacking him or anyone else), which you leave as null, which is very convenient for scum who may want the option to jump on that later.

It felt very much like our last game together.

[I Am Innocent]

IAI-I have a serious question. Do you think that Dudes reasoning to suspect DX was good?

No it sucked, and it is not the reason I suspect u. But it's the motivation that I'm focusing on. Scum TDA should have zero motivation to go after his town neighbors.

Then I look at you and dex, and you two are going after non neighbors, which is what I'd expect out of scum. The fact that dex has come off as more townie, trying to stop the TDA wagon, and you semi coming after what I know to be a townie (me) has me suspecting that you are the scum in the neighborhood.

I'm a little confused then.

This makes alot of sense (scum nero buddying to town d3X) based on a game I can't quite talk about yet.

Here you agree that I'm buddying. TDA's "case" on me is that b/c I agree'd that scum do use out of game reasoning to lurk or whatever that I should have pounced on D3X. How exactly is that buddying as opposed to just you know? Thinking the reasons suck?

While I can understand that paranoia says there's once scum in the hood there's NOT always one scum in the hood.

But if we are going t talk about each others scum tendencies: I've pegged you twice for sheeping/shadowing posts wich is exactly what you are doing here.

Because between 468 and 485 there was this, the 3rd party bystander in the neighborhood who helped clarify what really happened:

@anyone curious {mostly answering IAI's questions}- We don't have Daytalk, but we were open during pregame. There wasn't a whole lot said in the Hood by anyone. We weren't Neighborizered, we're just Neighbors. I wouldn't say that Nero was trying to Buddy me in the Hood, Dude just read a bit more into my posts than were actually there. Nero asked if there was anything that anyone wanted to discuss and I said some iRL stuff that will happen later in the year. Dude didn't catch the 'later in the year' bit and Nero thought Dude's reasoning was lame. That's pretty much it. We were in the process of trying to figure out Dude's main when the thread was locked.

Before d3x clarified what was said, I thought from TDA's comments that yes, I would expect scum Nero to buddy to town d3x, esp after our last game together where I thought town d3x played very well (and I would guess you would have agreed with that).

***************

RE "While I can understand that paranoia says there's once scum in the hood there's NOT always one scum in the hood"

Oh I agree. But even if it is 75/25, and I feel very confident in my town reads for TDA and d3x, and your 20 pages in and still only have one vote and one scum read from what I can remember, yeah, I think your a great lynch today.

Speaking of reads, care to give a full reads list of every player? I mean, we're only 20+ pages in to this game already. And with 3 viable wagons, you really think your lone vote on me is better than any of those wagons? Did we nail one of your buddies on one of these two counterwagons, and your afraid to show your cards too early? I want reads darnit!

[I Am Innocent]

late for work now, will have to catch up on the other stuff later, wanted to make sure to keep things moving with Nero.

[I Am Innocent]

re: Nero- Meh. I'm largely ambivalent on Nero. In spite of the insistence of others, I'm not convinced that there has to be Scum in the Hood. He's been mostly under the radar, but is taking some stances. If I had to give a Read, I'd say NullTown.

Please list the stances you have seen Nero make, cause I see a guy who has only suspected me and ignored my request to provide a reads list of every player.

Ps - like naked joggers last post

[I Am Innocent]

I hardly like this lynch candidate any better than the last one

My vote is useless right now, so what are you proposing, I'm listening?

Feeling Nero at all?

[I Am Innocent]

Please list the stances you have seen Nero make, cause I see a guy who has only suspected me and ignored my request to provide a reads list of every player.

Well, suspecting you

is

taking a stance. I could be mistaken, but it feels like he's taken a stance on me as well. And there's nothing that says he has to give you a Reads List.

So you have a lean town on someone who has

only

suspected me D1, MAY have taken a stance on you, and is refusing to provide reads. Really?

re: Nero- Meh. I'm largely ambivalent on Nero. In spite of the insistence of others, I'm not convinced that there has to be Scum in the Hood. He's been mostly under the radar, but is taking some stances. If I had to give a Read, I'd say NullTown.

Please list the stances you have seen Nero make, cause I see a guy who has only suspected me and ignored my request to provide a reads list of every player.

Ps - like naked joggers last post

this is just silly-
day one and you want a reads list on every player on your say so-
here, turn it about, give me a reads list on every player NOW-

I'm not asking for a dissertation on every player, just a general reads list. These are guys I won't vote for. These are guys I can't get a read on. These are guys I find scummy.

Why is that silly? At least two players have done it. Do you think you could do it? What is your read on Nero so far?

[I Am Innocent]

When someone can actually summarise why I am being lynched (before I claimed tracker) without citing a dozen posts then maybe I will get back into the game. Otherwise this is pretty much it for me.

Did you crumb the role.

This

[I Am Innocent]

biggest scum reads are Dripping ABR and Garmr, I would probably put naked in there for a 4th, too

What happened to your TDA read?

[I Am Innocent]

So you have a lean town on someone who has only suspected me D1, MAY have taken a stance on you, and is refusing to provide reads. Really?

I have a NullTown Read on someone who has taken a stance on you, a probable stance on me, hasn't done anything overtly scummy, and fought against the weaksauce aggro Dude was throwing my way in the Hood {and backed that up in thread here}, yeah. I'm not calling the guy ConfTown, I don't even have him in my Town pile. I have him as NullTown, which to me means slightly North of no Read at all.

It doesn't bother you that he is ignoring my request to provide reads? Why would town hide that? (I know why scum wouldn't want to do that...)

[I Am Innocent]

Didn't forget this game, post and vote within 24 hrs

[I Am Innocent]

@mod, I think you missed this vote

Questions: There is a claimed hood. IAI and TDA are pushing the fact that there HAS to be scum in the hood, do you think this is valid.

No.

Who do think is scum and why?

I haven't been liking TheDudeAbides myself. I think his cases on Dragon Spawn and Garmr are fundamentally weak. Garmr himself can go either way quite easily but I really don't think he's scum with TDA. Peacebringer seems to have gotten aboard the killapenwin wagon too easily in #534 and never provided an adequate reason for voting him. (In fact, I'll VOTE: PeaceBringer while I'm talking about this.)

Why are you asking for a summary with only a quarter of a hundred pages?

Interesting that you quote the part of my post that

DOESN'T

have the answer to your question... (Admittedly, it was a skim the first time.)

[I Am Innocent]

And with that, I'll join that wagon.

vote PeaceBringer

[I Am Innocent]

Nero, Kthx, Dragon, know what's funny, you don't even look at why SC or I am voting PeaceBringer.

Do you know he has 4 votes D1, 3 of which are for the two dead townies?

He defended Nero by attacking me for asking for general reads on all the players. Most likely protecting a scummate, and the scum in the Neighborhood.

Then he posts today, ONE POST AFTER GETTING A VOTE, and doesn't vote himself. Lurking, and still hasn't voted (aka taking stances).

But you three come after me because I'm posting FROM WORK (look at the time and where I live), ON MY CELL, WHICH I HATE DOING, a correction to the mod and getting my vote out there (yeah, I update my vote analysis on my work computer since I have excel on that).

So go screw yourselves.

95% likelihood of at least one scum in {Nero, Peacebringer}

The fact that the majority of the players continuing ignoring/defending these players makes me only feel better about these 2 scumreads I have.

[I Am Innocent]

With scumIAI on it? The hell is wrong with you?

Hello scum. How about that reads list?

[I Am Innocent]

Wagons today so far suck guys. More PB, or Nero votes would be great.

[I Am Innocent]

Garmr's slipping down even further into my scumreads. I agree that NakedJogger's case on d3x is lacking, but I do like his deconstruction of Garmr's case on him much better, and #777 is really just mudslinging and little else.

FoS: Garmr

.

So your willing to ignore a mud sling from naked jogger yet your willing to point out mine. Double standards?

maybe he is protecting his team mate?

Maybe he is town?

[I Am Innocent]

are you never home or something? why do you need to post from work and on cell? only time I do that is when I want to. Its a forum game, you're not in immediate danger, so why do you feel the need to post from mediums you don't enjoy posting from?

I work, have 4 kids, and am very involved in my church. Yeah so a little busy. I try to follow on my phone, but get overwhelmed when I fall multiple pages behind. Easiest time for me to post on my home computer is at night after the kids go down.

Today at work I updated the votes for D2. Then I compared with the mod and saw he missed one. Ales looked to see who hadn't voted D2 and PeaceBringer stood out. Looked at his vote history for D1 and it seemed as good a place to stick my vote outside of maybe Nero. So I voted. Figured I'd see how others react or don't react to it, and try to post after the kids went down.

Then scum Nero ticked me off, so I left 3 kids alone downstairs (wife is out with the 4th), and shot off a few posts.

[I Am Innocent]

also IAI, have you read the WHY of the RM wagon?

Because he didn't realize ika replaced AA?

[I Am Innocent]

Wasn't it d3x who called out RM for voting like 6 different players D1? Is that what scum usually do, move their votes around that much? Not from my experience. I still lean town on that slot.

[I Am Innocent]

U've been tunneling me the whole game. Then the 'you haven't posted in a week crap' which is just mudslinging since there was this thing called a night phase mixed in there.

I really can't see ur slot as town.

Ps my oldest is almost 12...she can handle it

[I Am Innocent]

3 players, 2 of which are town vs 6 players, 1 of which is town

Yeah a bit different

[I Am Innocent]

Plus I like how u ignore both my points about D2, his lack of voting and immediately posting after SC votes him.

Your case on me is built around lurking, so why does PB get a pass?

[I Am Innocent]

Hey Nero, just curious to get your thoughts on the following:

Do you know he has 4 votes D1, 3 of which are for the two dead townies?

its also super hilarious in a cong dis kinda way that he's arguing that PB is scum for having 4 votes (2 on dead town) but is aslo arguing that RM and his 6 votes is town?

you know who knows for sure who is town...
I am innocent rockecting up the suspect list

still have negative pings regarding strange coug but IAI, Gamr, and DGB have recently drawn my attention...

Especially since you said this earlier about me:

And since u hinted me, how about explaining why?

For some reason I wasn't a big fan of 62.

Nice OMGUS on me

. Thought I do like that Yuni read.

Either way, i don't think that it looks good for Nero, since the former is awful and out of game excuses is a pretty common scumtell. I think he was using the opportunity to buddy with d3x

So you are claiming that you acted scummy and b/c I didn't pounce on you that I'm scummy?

Still time to bus ur partner. DGB, you had my vote D1, how about you make the leap over here. Garmr, room for you too.

@NJ, if I didn't have bigger fish to fry with PB/Nero, I'd consider joining you on the d3x wagon, this is not the same d3x I played with last game.

[I Am Innocent]

Spoiler: Garmr

I don't under stand why anyone would kill evilpacman he had no field presence.

Maybe because it would be easier to make other players look like scum? Like, trying to push the scum label on pacman might backfire as he would be too easy of a target? So they might as well get rid of him before one of the actual scum members accidentally/stupidly resort(s) to that?
That would be kind of thinking ahead, I guess. Just a thought, really.

Spoiler: Kid A

I could swing either way...

what are you referring to?

Did you ever make that reads list I asked for?

no, i dont think reads lists are helpful to town

And why not?
It can be pretty effective at finding scum if the lists are analyzed right.
Or maybe that's why you don't want to make a reads list.

Spoiler: Nero

vote:RM

Where did that come from? Seriously, here you are trying to look towny, responding to quoted things and asking questions, and then you vote someone who you didn't mention much at all.
You just hopping on the wagon?

Not sure if someone mentioned this already as I haven't yet read through all of Garmr and NJ's thing going on right now, but wasn't the pen lynch something of a counter-wagon to TDA's?

@Yuni, who are your scum reads? Any reason you haven't voted yet today?

[I Am Innocent]

@mod, about to get hit with 2 feet of snow, and possible power outages. V/LA until Saturday

(longest I've been without power since I moved up here was 4 days)

[I Am Innocent]

@IAI

IAI's p583 feels out of place to me. In p486 he supports the Wagon and says that if DGB shifts, he'll follow. She does. He doesn't. At the time of 583, pen is L-2 and DGB has been on the Wagon for ~2 pages. He admits his Vote is useless and there's definitely room on the Wagon, but he tries to start a FlashMob on Nero. After the Claim, he lightly prods pen, but still doesn't really take a stance.

It's interesting that in your very next contribution after I posted this, you put in a soft push against me. It's also interesting that as of page 21, you are "very confident in your Town Read" on me. The vast majority of behaviors that Jogger is screaming about occurred while this was the case. At what point did you change your mind? You clearly didn't disagree with my stance on pen's Claim; you posted after I did and questioned pen expressing doubt.

Question time!

1. <

see above re: your Read change

>
2. What is your response to the above quote?
3. What is it that about Jogger's case on me that you most agree with?
4. How much stock do you put in meta?
5. What is your Read on Kthx?

1) My town read was based on your reaction to TDA. You totally diffused that wagon, which based on my read of TDA was very town. Since then, you've lost points. Your wagon on pen (which was your only vote D1 btw), whether I agreed with it or not, flipped town. I feel randomidget is an easy wagon too. And Kid A as well. I don't feel you have gotten your hands dirty, it feels like you keep going after the low hanging fruit (TDA wagon aside).

2) I think that quote totally characterizes how I felt. I like multiple wagons. We had two large wagons D1, as someone pointed out, with many of the same people. Neither wagon crossed with the others. I feel like multiple wagons gets information. With more than 1 wagon, there is a greater chance at one of those wagons including scum. Which forces the scum to bus, vote a counterwagon, or try to start a new wagon. We gained none of that information D1 because there was never any CWs.

Long story short, I was okay with Pen, but I personally would have rather seen a 2nd wagon. My preference at that moment was it be Nero, which nobody agreed with.

3) Jogger hasn't swayed me, my read on you is based on gut/feelings from #1 above. Like I said earlier, this doesn't feel like the same d3x from YCBA 2.

4) Not as much as Pirate Mollie, but I do put some stock in meta. Like I said in #3, your game feels different from our last together, yet garmr's feels the same. Early on in a game, that holds quite a bit of weight, at least until we get some scum flips.

5) kthx also feels a bit different from last game. Not a fan of his two votes (NJ or randomidget) either. Tho I will say randomidget lurking is not making me feel great about my town read there. NJ is coming off as very town in my eyes.

[I Am Innocent]

Would lynch PB even more now that he has posted rubbish.

I'll be surprised if PB is scum.

Why is this?

[I Am Innocent]

Food for thought everyone, a player votes 4 times D1, 3 different players.

Someone is then lynched, and their role is revealed.

A kill at night happens, another role is revealed.

Lots more information to use, yet this player goes thru all of D2 up to this point, 26 posts in all D2, still without a vote.

What is your take on that peeps?

[I Am Innocent]

Back from V/LA

Wow, three votes gets you from 36 posts to 49, with all kinds of flailing in between.

And what was the point of this:

vote:ika

i know that its "hypocritical" since I am lurking but I think IKA is probs scum here.

Your vote was already on ika?

Oh wait, it's cause your scum and trying to draw attention to someone else, someone who has made one vote this game and it was a hammer on a claimed power role (when someone else already claimed intention to do so). If that is ika's scum strategy, more power to him...I don't buy it.

Your the lynch today. Your a neighbor, so we don't force any more claims today, and I'm still pretty sure that one of you three neighbors are scum. The fact you were pushing against that theory so hard D1 makes me believe it is you. Plus the coming out of the woodwork after 3 votes, basically a scum claim.

If you don't vote Nero in your next post, I want a reason why.

vote Nero Cain

[I Am Innocent]

I will go back and answer the questions I've missed, but this one caught my eye cause it's on the same page:

IAI is voting PB and PB is voting IAI with 2 days to deadline. Considering what they've done day1 if I ever were to play like this it means I either got into an accident that lead to braindamage or I'm scum.

I've been on V/LA for almost the whole week. PB's wagon was at 3 or 4. PB has been the only person to vote for me today, and as an OMGUS. How in the world are you linking the two of us together? And what have we done day1? And by we, I care more about me.

[I Am Innocent]

1- How is Kid A an 'easy Wagon' or even 'low hanging fruit'? Is there some groundswell against him that I'm unaware of? Do you disagree with my assessment of his push on me Yesterday? How do you reconcile me not getting my 'hands dirty' and at the same time chastising me {no matter how slight} for leading the Wagon on Townpen? If I were truly Scum in this scenario, I'd know he was Town. His blood is all over my hands either way.

2- That's nice and all, but it doesn't really speak to my quote in the least. I'm saying you went against your word. You're responding with 'I like choices'. You said that you would follow DGB onto the penWagon and then you didn't. Why? If you truly were ok with pen, but would've liked a CounterWagon, why did you offer to ghost DGB's Vote in the first place? Did you actually have any intention of following her?

4&5- Up until this point, I'd say I was having serious doubts about you. If you'd have said that you had a TownRead on Kthx and that you put any amount of stock in meta, I'd switch to you in a heartbeat and call in any markers I had to see you swing. As Kthx has said, we've been friends for decades and have played in nigh countless games together. We aren't always 100%, but to ignore his metaRead on me in favor of your own single point of data would be very scummy indeed. Having doubts in Kthx's alignment calls into question the veracity of his meta Read on me. I'd still like an answer to my new questions, but you've largely sated my suspicions.

1) Felt like Kid A was an easy target, that not many people support him. He only has 24 posts, so while that adds that slot as one for me to keep an eye on/prod more, it also could be as easy lurker mislynch if he is town. Someone with so few posts is not likely to fight back if they are town, so I stand by my calling that slot an easy wagon to target for scum if town.

And yes, I disagree with your assessment. I think it was a valid question, why keep a lone vote out there when moving it around/creating pressure on others you suspect is a better way of playing when your town. Votes are not just to mislynch, but to put players thru the ringer. Look at how Nero responded with just 3 votes...can be very telling.

That's a fair point about getting your hands dirty about Pen. Can I be honest with you (and everybody here)? I am surprised not one person jumped off his wagon post claim. I kept waiting and waiting for a town to at least say 'let me take a step back and think about leaving him as NK bait and if he is still alive, lynch him tomorrow instead.' That never happened. The mislynch was great for scum. Which makes me think scum was on that wagon and not wanting to get off. You were there at that point, and one of those I am worried about because of it.

2) When I made that promise, Penguin was at THREE votes. Yes I was willing to put some pressure there, but that wagon jumped up pretty quickly after my promise. At which point my vote wasn't needed anymore (DGB's vote was the SEVENTH where ten was needed) except to pretty much lynch at that point. Which I never felt great about lynching. I was comfortable watching (see my last paragraph in #1 above) and waiting to see what others did.

If DGB would have been the 4th vote, I would have followed. Remember TDA was at 7 votes at the top of that page where I made that quote, and you and I were both strongly against that. I would have been happy to see a strong CW to it, and would have been okay with that being Penguin....point was, by the time DGB did vote him, it was already strong and the only major wagon.

4&5) I will always trust my own read of another player over the read that someone else has on another player, whether I have them as town or not. Sorry I'm pretty arrogant that way.

[I Am Innocent]

1- How is Kid A an 'easy Wagon' or even 'low hanging fruit'?

Kid A is extremely difficult to lynch. Why, I cannot say.

Sure. That's why I'm asking IAI how he's categorized Kid A as such.

Yes looking back at my vote count history, he only ever had two votes, so he has been tough to lynch (tho in truth, that could be said about everyone not named Penguin). You need to remember, easy wagon to target does not equal easy wagon to mislynch. I promise to keep a better eye there, but if Kid A is town, it would make an easy wagon to target for scum as I mentioned in my prior post as those usually don't fight back.

****************

daughter's b-ball game at 8am, will finish responding to the other questions later.

Until then, don't make the same mistake we made in 2012 with Obama....vote Nero!

[I Am Innocent]

Why Nero wants another claim (ika) when two players have already claimed today?

[I Am Innocent]

Does it bother you the amount of people voting RM that also finished on the penguin wagon? You should come over to the Nero wagon, dragon.

[I Am Innocent]

Resistance = L-1???

[I Am Innocent]

That would be pretty incompetent scum to claim vanilla and not try to out the doctor if there is one.

Because everyone who's scum is playing like it's 2013 the meta updates it's much safer to claim vanilla because it's the safest claim because there's guaranteed vanilla townies in almost every game.

Yeah right, the buying of maybe one extra day for scum RM by claiming vanilla town is much smarter than drawing out a doc via CC.

[I Am Innocent]

@IAI
Surely your not that blind to see that this wagon has been consistent through the whole day it's not been one of those last minute wagons. You have had people push numerous counter wagons against it.

Dbg wagon
Nero wagon
peace wagon

These wagons have risen and falling they haven't much consistency or any actual good cases made against them. Which makes me believe these are the poor mans attempt at a counter wagon.

Good case, like what you had against RM last game together? Or is it possible that scum is laying low letting the VI's take all the heat.

You should know better after that game, which is making me wonder about my town read on u.

[I Am Innocent]

Yeah meant rach...and don't recall her voting FIVE different players D1. But Nero on the other hand...

[I Am Innocent]

...voted only me D1. Then more than doubled his total posts late D2 when a wagon formed on him. Now trying to get a 3rd claim D2.

[I Am Innocent]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=38899

this is my only scum game with ika. He lurked.

Looked at the vote counts in this game and his votes there seemed "safe."

What do you make of his hammer of a claimed power role D1 when someone else claimed intent to hammer? Do you feel that that kind of attention goes against the principle of trying to lurk/lay low?

[I Am Innocent]

The first quote is working from the hypothetical you imposed of randomidget flipping scum. The second is not.

You're working very hard to make it look like I'm contradicting myself when I'm not. Why is that?

Psst....cause he's scum

[I Am Innocent]

Willing to move to RM to prevent a no lynch, tho with some time left I'd like to see those not on one of the major two or three wagons move to one of them already.

[I Am Innocent]

Not seeing Nero-scum still.

pretty sure IAI is scum at this point, so ignore what he says imo...

Says the lurking player, who OMGUS'd me, and the reason is:

I like his posts, why, am I missing something?

Why are

you

voting IAI? I iso'd to find your reasons, I didn't find any. Did I skim too quickly?

my reason is I suspect him...
reasons for my suspiscions, I am intuitive and the way he is reacting triggers my internal alarms...
since you have play with me/skot before within the past year, um, you should know that...

intuitive, reacting triggers, internal alarms

Yeah, nice concrete case. Oh wait, then you try to do that AFTER this post, by going back and iso'ing me. Could you be more scummy?

[I Am Innocent]

Hey nero, why are you trying to draw yet another claim today. Your push on ika after RM claimed vanilla is pretty scummy.

What is your read on RM currently?

As a follow up I fell like if he were legit scumhunting he'd be more worried about the guys that were AGREEING with me than is attacker.

Who has agreed with you? Who has voted me (non RVS) besides you and PB, and we know where his vote came from?

Him attacking gis attacker is 100% in line with his scum meta.

Great, let's see it. Name a game, heck we just played one together, one where Mollie nailed me D1 (and I pretty much ignored her).

[I Am Innocent]

What is your read on RM currently?

don't really care. I don't really put that much stock into him "slipping" though. What about you?

I do care, what is your read on him?

[I Am Innocent]

If that is ika's scum strategy, more power to him...I don't buy it.

Are you saying that you haven't seen scum hammer a pr or that you haven't seen scum lurk or that you haven't seen the combination?
Because I really don't buy the first two options and if it's the third then I question why you don't want Ika dead.

I haven't seen scum replace into a game, cast only 1 vote that day, it being the hammer on a claimed power role after someone else (i believe flubber) claimed intent to hammer. All whilst lurking, no.

Usually when I see scum lurk, they tend to get real active once pressure comes, e.g. nero cain this game.

[I Am Innocent]

I haven't seen scum replace into a game, cast only 1 vote that day, it being the hammer on a claimed power role after someone else (i believe flubber) claimed intent to hammer. All whilst lurking, no.

This is incredibly specific.
Do you think that scum don't lurk or something?
I just can't fathom why you are using this as a reason to defend Ika.

No I think scum lurk alot. I think the point of lurking is to avoid attention, which is counter to what ika did by hammering a claimed power role when scum ika could have just lurked it out and let flubber do it.

[I Am Innocent]

Says the lurking player, who OMGUS'd me, and the reason is:

No, I did not OMGUS you, as I you voted me on nothing.

If you say so...

Nero, Kthx, Dragon, know what's funny, you don't even look at why SC or I am voting PeaceBringer.

Do you know he has 4 votes D1, 3 of which are for the two dead townies?

He defended Nero by attacking me for asking for general reads on all the players. Most likely protecting a scummate, and the scum in the Neighborhood.

Then he posts today, ONE POST AFTER GETTING A VOTE, and doesn't vote himself. Lurking, and still hasn't voted (aka taking stances).

But you three come after me because I'm posting FROM WORK (look at the time and where I live), ON MY CELL, WHICH I HATE DOING, a correction to the mod and getting my vote out there (yeah, I update my vote analysis on my work computer since I have excel on that).

So go screw yourselves.

95% likelihood of at least one scum in {Nero, Peacebringer}

The fact that the majority of the players continuing ignoring/defending these players makes me only feel better about these 2 scumreads I have.

(PS still stand by by 95% prediction there)

[I Am Innocent]

So, there is no way I'd vote for Nero today.
IAI appears increasingly scummy.

Because I don't see why scum ika would hammer/draw attention when he could have just lurked and let flubber do it?

Or maybe it is because I've defended all the VI's and lurkers this game so far (you, RM, ika), that is my strategy. Defend every easy lynch in this game....Oh wait, or maybe they're all (including u) my teammates right?

When did people stop learning how to play this game? Scum don't say "Here I am, here I am". They lurk, they refuse to make stances, they go after low hanging fruit. It is a simple formula people...

Nero/Peace, will one of you two kill me tonight? Please???

PS - Nero, I thought RM was town D1, after voting 5 different players. No way his personality is one to bus, and I don't see scum RM leaving such a big trail to town players.

His lurking D2 has not giving me warm fuzzies, but I'd still say much better lynches today are you and Peace.

[I Am Innocent]

*

Case on IAI is skeletal.

My case on IAI is much better than his case on me.

say it with enough conviction and people here might start believing it

[I Am Innocent]

They lurk, they refuse to make stances, they go after low hanging fruit. It is a simple formula people..

What stances has ika taken? His two votes are a hammer and a OMGUS type vote. Your formula for describing what scum do seems to fit ika well me thinks.

Why would scum ika hammer if flubber was ready to? You get me past that, and I'll vote him tomorrow after you're lynched today.

[I Am Innocent]

When did people stop learning how to play this game? Scum don't say "Here I am, here I am". They lurk, they refuse to make stances, they go after low hanging fruit. It is a simple formula people...

is too simplistic too be realistic, so I have a hard believing that you believe in it.

No those are just a few things to go by, it is not an all inclusive list. But motivations dude, motivations...where is the motivation for scum ika to hammer and draw wrath of players like yourself the next day when he could have just let flubber do it? Do you think he is a bad scum player?

Same as you D1, I saw no scum motivation in the fact that you went after your neighbors. Heck I believe strongly that one of the three of you are scum, so the scum would be smart and NOT want to go after the neighbors creating a POE later (hence why I am less sure about Nero and d3x at this point).

It's motivation. Look at me. Do you really think 1) scum IAI would defend so many easy lynches himself (you D1, RM and ika D2) if they were town, or 2) defend lost causes like you seemed D1 and RM seems today if we were teammates? Cause I can tell you, I bus my idiot neighbors.

One of my first games as scum, Sotty nominated me for a Rookie scummy, I bussed my teammate the whole game. By the end, the only suspicion I got was because I was the last one suspecting my teammate, lol.

Look at the players, look at what they are doing, look at their motivations. If you still see mine as scummy, well then I personally think your either a poor mafia player or one heck of one (if you fooled me and ur really scum).

[I Am Innocent]

him hammering really has no drawbacks me thinks. Do you have evidence that he does so as only town?

Why do you think there's so much more resistance to a Ika lynch than a RM lynch?

Because RM has said so many things that contradict themselves.

No I don't have evidence he does so as town. I just DO NOT SEE WHAT MOTIVATION SCUM WOULD HAVE TO DO IT?

No Drawbacks, why is TDA voting ika...hmmmm?

Sorry those answers were in reverse order.

[I Am Innocent]

*

Ignoring his neighbors.

I feel like there's very little reason to suspect either D3X or TDA beyond "OMG I'M IN A HOOD. LETS BE UNRATIONALLY PARANOID!" Even if there were scum in TDA/dx there's still 3 scum outside of the hood.

*

Case on IAI is skeletal.

My case on IAI is much better than his case on me. If you had such an issue with my case on him why are you just now bringing it up?

*

Lurker wagon votes are meh.

How is my thinking that Ika is lurking it out any different than you accusing DS and SC of active lurking?

how do you know there are four scum?

Good catch. Neeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrooooooooooooo? What say u?

[I Am Innocent]

how do you know there are four scum?

b/c I'm not a moron. 3/16 seems low and 5/14 seems high so a 4/15 split seems reasonable to me.

lol....all aboard players!!!!!! the train will soon be leaving....lol

[I Am Innocent]

And how is this any diffrent than other games where I speculate on game size?

"Even if there were scum in TDA/dx there's still 3 scum outside of the hood." doesn't sound speculative, it sounds pretty certain to me.

[I Am Innocent]

Why do you think there are less than 4 scum or more than 4 scum?

Didn't u scum slip our last game together? I think someone in the dead thread caught u lol...

off to check

[I Am Innocent]

No, I'm through.

It doesn't matter what I say, everyone's insistent on ika or randomidget and I absolutely refuse to be on a wagon with StrangerCoug, dragonspawn, or d3x. I'll stomach Nero's company if that's my alternative.

Ummm, Nero's wagon was the 2nd biggest, why won't you consider that?

[I Am Innocent]

how do you know there are four scum?

b/c I'm not a moron. 3/16 seems low and 5/14 seems high so a 4/15 split seems reasonable to me.

Nero has a system to work out a estimate amount of scum if I remember correctly.

Our last game had 25 and 7 bad guys...why couldn't 5 with 19 be reasonable?

[I Am Innocent]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... start=3325

3328 he used the word teammate. Granted the player he used it on was Garmr, a townie, but his coverup on the next page was pretty weak (had a town read on garmr so he thought of him as a teammate). Teammates are how scum think, so it was definitely a slip that scum would use...

With 19, 5 scum would be reasonable based on the number of town powers there could be, or heck there could be multi-ball with two teams of 3 and one hit a BP or doc protection last night...so many different possibilities to be sure that there are 4 scum

If Nero flips scum, garmr moves way up my scum list for his pop-in and diffusion. Lurk much?

[I Am Innocent]

happy scumday IAI

holy cow, i turn 5 tomorrow!!!!

[I Am Innocent]

amazing how many people are coming out of the woodwork after that slip lol

even more amazing that a nero wagon isn't taking off

[I Am Innocent]

I feel like there's very little reason to suspect either D3X or TDA beyond "OMG I'M IN A HOOD. LETS BE UNRATIONALLY PARANOID!" Even if there were scum in TDA/dx there's still

a bunch of

scum outside of the hood.

Spoiler:

townie response

[I Am Innocent]

PEOPLE IT DOESN'T MATTER IF NERO IS RIGHT OR NOT (AND IF HE IS, IT'S PROBABLY MORE CONDEMNING), BUT IS IT A SCUM SLIP?????

[I Am Innocent]

taking a break to snowblow another friggin foot of snow.....grrrrr

[I Am Innocent]

Nero, are you really claiming vig? I assumed that was a joke earlier. If so, did you shoot pacman?

Willing to move my vote to RM once this is answered.

[I Am Innocent]

Well this has taken an interesting turn.
@d3x what was the question I missed?
If you have any questions for me please post them amd I will answer them before deadline.

Your game play dramatically changed from D1 to D2. Can you explain why?

[I Am Innocent]

Interesting that of the first 7 players on penguins final wagon, 6 are either currently voting RM or have voted him today. (The 8th vote on that wagon was RM himself, followed by the self vote then Ikas hammer.)

I'm going to do a 180 here and:

unvote Nero Cain
Vote ika

I believe this makes 7 votes a piece (will move to RM to prevent a no lynch)

[I Am Innocent]

VoteCount 2.12

Day 2 ends in (expired on 2015-02-03 10:00:00).

<crickets>

[I Am Innocent]

My count is two more votes are needed for either player.

[I Am Innocent]

12 hour extension requested

Tho if we get enough people to make the request, we should easily have enough to swing a lynch lol

[I Am Innocent]

Nero, are you really claiming vig? I assumed that was a joke earlier. If so, did you shoot pacman?

Willing to move my vote to RM once this is answered.

Nero please answer

[I Am Innocent]

Three players voting ika that have or are willing to switch to RM...but none the other way.

Makes me want this ika lynch even more

[I Am Innocent]

No it's not it's the same people that pushed penguin

[I Am Innocent]

Do we still not have a lynch

[I Am Innocent]

L-2 already, really? As the person who led/continued the attack on Nero most of D2, he is not the best play today.

I stand by what I said the end of D2, which led me to the ika wagon over RM:

Interesting that of the first 7 players on penguins final wagon, 6 are either currently voting RM or have voted him today. (The 8th vote on that wagon was RM himself, followed by the self vote then Ikas hammer.)

I'm going to do a 180 here and:

unvote Nero Cain
Vote ika

I believe this makes 7 votes a piece (will move to RM to prevent a no lynch)

The six players are {d3x, DS, DGB, garmr, NJ, & PB}. There is definite scum in here.

Here's food for thought.

d3x had one vote D1: Penguin (flipped town). Pretty much led the charge on him

d3x had two votes D2: RM (the CW to ika, and similar votees as Penguin wagon) and Kid A (flipped town)

Plus I still think there is scum in that 3 person neighborhood, just no longer think it is Nero, but d3X. His flip would almost confirm Nero as town at that point.

vote d3x

[I Am Innocent]

I'll be on periodically for the next few hours. After that, I cannot guarantee that I'll be around for the deadline.

RM 6 votes, ika 5

Then....

@Kthx- IAI just said he'd Hammer midget to avoid a No Lynch. Why are you switching?

/sigh

Your thoughts on ika include this...

Maybe RM is a scum PR and ika isn't

And just because he isn't here now, doesn't mean he wouldn't be here at the deadline, but w/e.

No use crying over spilled milk.

Hey look! IAI's here...

Look someone wasn't only here, but upset by the wagon shift.

[I Am Innocent]

Wagons today so far suck guys. More PB, or Nero votes would be great.

We are not lynching Nero Cain and I will do everything within my power to protect that from happening.

Hey SC what happened to this read?

[I Am Innocent]

Wow this is a bad post as it shows strange cougar not paying attention to what's happening.

It's only 3 votes. 2 of those votes were me and ds. Me and ds discussed who we thought was scum and we both thought he was most likely scum.

I don't know about Abr through.

There only being three votes doesn't mean those three votes can't be piled on insanely fast. Quality, not quantity. The most your post says to me is that, if scum is voting Nero, I should be looking at ABR. So your post really doesn't do enough to discredit mine.

OK, the Nero Cain wagon sprung up

WAY

too quickly for my liking. At least one person voting him is scum. I'll tell you that right now.

Holding off voting until I actually look at the people on him.

And this?

[I Am Innocent]

Oh, and my Scum List as it stands right now is...

Scummiest Scum

Garmr*
dragon*
ABR
midget
Jogger
TT
Peace

Towniest Scum

*one flipping Scum all but clears the other

So why did you vote SC to start the day if you don't find him scum?

[I Am Innocent]

Yeah that Nero wagon reeks of scum, bet at least 2 are on there

[I Am Innocent]

It was a Hood thing.

Lol, that was the one thing that made me hesitate at the beginning of the day, was that I liked that vote

[I Am Innocent]

Garmr, abr, SC, who are your top 3 scum reads.

[I Am Innocent]

His flip would almost confirm Nero as town at that point.

What if one of Garmr/DS flips scum?

Like I think DS is scum and he's whining that that I figured out that how many scum are in the game. His Ika vote also felt like bussing. This makes me think scum are

DS/Flubber/SC

@NJ-What did I say that made you change your mind on Ika?

Still think there are much better lynches than d3x today though.

It would help the town case on ur hood members yes, but not confirm in my mind.

Confirmation bias can be tough, I was sure you were scum D2 so I totally saw that as a slip.

Now I'm fairly confident ur town, so I don't see the RM mislynch as a slip. In fact I'd probably characterize it the same way as I'm fairly confident RM is town (his and penguins wagons being so similar)

[I Am Innocent]

Nero, randomigdget, and DrippingGoofball in roughly that order.

So they all bussed ika?

[I Am Innocent]

I've seen it before.

So that makes it likely?

[I Am Innocent]

Never mind, if you have RM as scum, they could be protecting a power teammate

[I Am Innocent]

I've seen it before.

So that makes it likely?

Actually, I can see Nero Cain and randomidget not being scum together if I'm wrong about my reads quite easily. It's not

LIKELY

, but it's

POSSIBLE

.

Yeah why would you have them as scum together, your reason for voting Nero is a slip that he know RM is town?

[I Am Innocent]

Count me in the group that isn't voting Nero.

unvote d3x
Vote ABR

Willing to also vote SC.

[I Am Innocent]

Garmr, abr, SC, who are your top 3 scum reads.

Nero,strange,naked

What changed on your RM read? Rereading D2 you were adamant he was scum.

[I Am Innocent]

Why would scum kamikaze for AB fucking R?

Just thought of this scenario he may be scum fake claiming a guilty on a buddy.

Yeah his goal is to bus all his buddies as a fake cop (ika now ABR), then hope nobody wonders why a cop is still alive at end game lol. Reach much?

[I Am Innocent]

Whether you believe Nero is a cop or not (I'm skeptical esp after the vig claim) he should entirely get a pass today for leading a lynch on ika.

ABR is scummy independent of any cop investigation. IMO he or SC are much better lynches.

[I Am Innocent]

Well Nero, you got what you wanted. If ABR doesn't flip scum I'm putting you on ignore for the rest of the game.

And if ABR does flip town, do not automatically go after Nero tomorrow. d3x and StrangerCoug are still scum.

Someone better unvote Nero right now, we are not having another short day like yesterday.

For those on neros wagon, why would Scum Nero NK TTH when she would obviously not vote him today based on above? Why not kill someone on his wagon from D3?

I still think Nero is town, this quick wagon + DS intent to join probably contains at least 2 scum. I will compare it to my vote analysis that I have at work and place a vote shortly.

I still think it is very likely that d3x may be scum. At least one neighbor is. Could possibly be garmr or DS tho too. I'd expect one scum to be on the flip side of this Nero case, could be him.

Srsly, if someone hammers I will auto vote them D5. Please someone unvote and let's have some discussion.

[I Am Innocent]

Okay never mind on the unvote, he is at L-2.

[I Am Innocent]

I'm game.

vote StrangerCoug

Want to look at a few more things surrounding the ika wagon too. Unless something new comes of that, I would prefer RM over Nero for the main wagons.

PS - Nero voters I'm still waiting for a reason you think scum Nero Nk'd TTH, and please no WIFOM arguments, cause as the only person who has brought this up so far, I'm not buying that.

[I Am Innocent]

PS - Nero voters I'm still waiting for a reason you think scum Nero Nk'd TTH, and please no WIFOM arguments, cause as the only person who has brought this up so far, I'm not buying that.

You ask a question that will only ever attract WIFOM responses, yet you reject WIFOM responses as valid. So what pro-town good is this question supposed to further?

So you think it was a WIFOM kill? Yet nobody brought it up until me (how TTH was adamant against a Nero lynch today even if ABR flipped town). So why didn't Nero come in and claim that as a reason (WIFOM) he is likely town to start off the day? Or one of his teammates? I'd ask you if you thought that would make me a scum mate of Nero, but I strongly believe you already know my alignment so I'm not going thru those shenanigans.

Still need to research D2. For some reason, I remember RM having a chance to join the Nero wagon but did not. But as soon as ika self-voted, RM hopped on. Would scum RM hop on scum ika's wagon but ignore town Nero's wagon? Or why would scum RM not hop on scum neighbor Nero if his supposed PR was so great? Like I said, I need to review, but I still have trouble seeing RM and Nero as anything but town. If pressed against the deadline, I will be switching to RM, but would still prefer SC or d3x at this point.

[I Am Innocent]

yes, there is a simple answer to that. Here is one player's total vote history:

D1 - killapenguin (flipped town)

D2 - Kid A (flipped town)
D2 - RM (unknown, but similar wagon to that of killapenguin)

D3 - StrangerCoug (unknown, but likely short term bus vote)
D3 - Garmr (claimed mason)

D4 - Garmr (claimed mason)
D4 - RM (unknown, see note from D2 tho)
D4 - Garmr (claimed mason)

You want your scum in the hood, it's not nero...

unvote StrangerCoug
vote d3x

[I Am Innocent]

Oh, and my Scum List as it stands right now is...

Scummiest Scum

Garmr*
dragon*
ABR
midget
Jogger
TT
Peace

Towniest Scum

*one flipping Scum all but clears the other

So why did you vote SC to start the day if you don't find him scum?

It was a Hood thing.

Re: the SC vote...doesn't even suspect him

[I Am Innocent]

need to reanalyze the votes, but NJ and/or Flubber are probably the last scum (besides d3x and SC)

[I Am Innocent]

flubbernugget, yuni, Nero, and pacman.

Could you talk about these?

Yeah, flubber dropped a few early game scum tells, yuni for the whole fuss about not rvs'ing in her first post, nero was the weak opening post where he throws my name around, but doesn't vote for me (or anyone else despite being caught up). almost like he is waiting to see if someone else will take his bait. pacman's opening post and lack of a vote hasn't sat well with me.

holy **** those quoteception

really, this is all you have to add at this point?

I believe that's L-3 with 2 weeks left and 2 players that haven't posted even a single time.

While I think the outing of the Neighborhood was freaking stupid on Dude's behalf and Garmr should be ashamed for his part in it, I think the fallout points to TownDude. Scum would already know about the Hood if he was Scum. He'd have no reason to vomit that **** all over the thread.

Great point, d3x is town

If your assertion is that Dude is Scum... and he's

in

the Hood... well...?

You haven't caught on to my meaning have you. You are pushing the assertion that scum either had pregame chat or daytalk. It could be they didn't and his outing the neighborhood to his scum buddies so why the assumption they have day talk or pre game chat?

Can't remember a scum game I've ever played when I didn't have pre game chat.

That just doesn't track, man. I highly doubt the Neighborhood had pregame, but the Scum didn't. I also can't even remember a game where Scum didn't have pregame.

Yeah, definite town

Spoiler: @d3x

I believe that's L-3 with 2 weeks left and 2 players that haven't posted even a single time.

While I think the outing of the Neighborhood was freaking stupid on Dude's behalf and Garmr should be ashamed for his part in it, I think the fallout points to TownDude. Scum would already know about the Hood if he was Scum. He'd have no reason to vomit that shit all over the thread.

Scum cough up information when they feel pressured, as a distraction. Why would town vomit that **** all over the thread?

Welcome to my scum reads list.

@Jogger&Garmr- If he was legitimately getting DayVig'ed and felt that Nero was Scum based on interactions in the Hood, he'd want that info out there for Town. I don't agree with his assessment of what happened in the Hood, but I don't think he's misrep'ing it.

@Garmr- I just peeked at the QT and you guys actually did have pregame chat according to the time stamps. The QT was opened and you were welcomed by the Mod a day before she closed it for the start of D1 {which she announced}. According to the postgame, you didn't read your RolePM until halfway through D1. That doesn't mean you didn't have pregame, dude. That means you didn't read your RolePM; it was your choice to handicap yourself.

Yeah not liking the fact that Garmr is trying so hard to keep this wagon on TDA.

So TTA says that dragon is scum along with his RVS target, then dragon says something about buddying and things got repetitive and silly from there.

This was a lackluster, easy-to-blend-in-for-scum misunderstanding, and I hope someone cares to elaborate on what they found that was alignment-indicative about it and in what way.

Spoiler: @d3x

@Jogger&Garmr- If he was legitimately getting DayVig'ed and felt that Nero was Scum based on interactions in the Hood, he'd want that info out there for Town. I don't agree with his assessment of what happened in the Hood, but I don't think he's misrep'ing it.

That's a pretty far-fetched line of thought, which you could easily have confirmation or denial for if you'd ask him, which you didn't so..

VOTE: d3x

I'm ready to lynch this thing with fire.

******

pacman's 354 is better, but still don't like the lack of voting. Why no vote pacman?

And since u hinted me, how about explaining why?

For some reason I wasn't a big fan of 62.

Nice OMGUS on me. Thought I do like that Yuni read.

Well then you probably won't like that I have a town read on Yuni. Can't believe you drew scum twice in a row there, huh?

oh almost forgot, IAI wanted a vote so....

vote:IAI

Wasted vote noted.

*******

Not liking killapenwin's willingness to hammer if he has to, as he states in 360

Hows that lurking working out for you IAI?

I have literally norhing to comment on what is going on there is prob scum in the hood that isnt dex.

This is the part that makes me think TDA is town. Looks like he attacked D3x pregame in the neighborhood, meanwhile he started this game by attacking nero (trying to connect him with dragonspawn).

Why would scum in the neighborhood 1) attack his fellow neighborhooders & 2) want them lynched, which the quicker that happens the quicker it likely leads back to the scum in the neighborhood.

This TDA wagon is bad folks, the fact that a counterwagon hasn't sprung up, is further proof. Some teammate would be trying something...

See I was having a strong townread on IAI up to here. Even the noticing the fact that there's no counterwagon is good. Because that was niggling at the back of my mind. And then this happened...

Help me lynch the Dragon Spawn.

Take off your blinders dude, dragon is town.

7 votes still on thedudeabides... some things just do not change

This right here.

DGB hasn't moved her vote either.

That one vote on you is really bothering you, huh?

Why are you so lynch happy?

Game doesnt seem to be going anywhere

Pick one of Nero, firebound, and nakedjogger and let's get a flash wagon started. What do you say?

I don't know what to think about this deliberate call for a counterwagon. Nero is super-null. Firebound could be scum but could just as easily be confused newbie. Nakedjogger though...

IAI is a town read but if TDA flips scum IAI will be re-assessed.

[/quote]

Thoughts as I ISO AA...No way he busses DGB that hard D1. Plus the post above, typically wish washy read on a scummate "Firebound could be scum but could just as easily be confused newbie."

Only time AA mentions firebound that I saw (SC's predecessor)

SC or d3x....anyone else is a bad lynch today

[I Am Innocent]

stupid quote tags fail...my words start at "Thoughts as I ISO AA..."

[I Am Innocent]

For DS

, AA's post obsessing about DGB. Now one could make the case that he never moved his vote to someone he was obsessing, meaning distancing. I don't buy that. D1, AA went hard after two players. TDA and DGB. To go that hard after a teammate doesn't allow much back tracking later. Plus it didn't seem like AA was supporting other's suspicion about DGB, but driving that suspicion himself. Which is an odd play D1 to do to a teammate when the only material wagons that ever formed were TDA (which AA voted) and killapenguin (who eventually was lynched/flipped town).

Spoiler:

I am not actually a fan of RVS, I feel it just gives scum the opportunity to vote without reasoning, which I do not think is good for town.

It's the part of the game that is the most revealing of the player's inner conflict.

Who's shown inner conflict so far? You've called several people scum including calling d.s. a mafia traitor but your vote is parked on ABR.

TDA did a really nasty hackjob to justify a vote on dragonspawn so let's put a vote there.

VOTE: TheDudeAbides

Flubber joins the list of people who don't know what and means.

When I get home I'm going to post an image of bill Clinton talking about the definition of the word "is" is. Until then vomit smilies to evilpacman and drippinggoofball for calling people scum but not voting or pressuring their suspicions.

Btw I can't help but notice you dodged my question

She's dodging my questions too. She's an equal opportunity Dodger fan. I'm at work now, but is Dripping still not voting a scumread while on the sidelines making 7 player scum lists for a 19 player game? I can't give this game my full attention at the moment but that's what I thought I saw from skimming.

Btw I can't help but notice you dodged my question

She's dodging my questions too. She's an equal opportunity Dodger fan. I'm at work now, but is Dripping still not voting a scumread while on the sidelines making 7 player scum lists for a 19 player game? I can't give this game my full attention at the moment but that's what I thought I saw from skimming.

Thank you for remaining seated on my scum list.

It's got six other people keeping me company so it's all good. We're watching a LoTR marathon and making jokes about how you're not pressuring any of your scumreads.

Flubber joins the list of people who don't know what and means.

When I get home I'm going to post an image of bill Clinton talking about the definition of the word "is" is. Until then vomit smilies to evilpacman and drippinggoofball for calling people scum but not voting or pressuring their suspicions.

ABR is town because of gut feel.

Kid A is town because of how he voted TDA.
The mindset that generated that vote is good.

DGB is scum for doing pointless busy work, lulz readslist, and no scumhunting: basically hiding in plain sight.

This is a surprisingly light on content game so far.

On this I agree with. I have a lot of people who are null and I'd like to fix that...

What is your opinion of people who scumread players but don't vote or pressure their scumreads?

What is your opinion of the TDA wagon? Is garmr's push scummy or townie and why do you think that?

Looking at the VC I would guess Garmr and Kid A are scum on TDA's wagon. Switch ABR and Garmr and I'd be pretty happy with DGB's placement list.

I've pointed out a couple of times now that DGB hasn't attempted to interact with most of the players in the game. Although this is true for pretty much everyone but in that case her reads list would be based on practically nothing. This is one of the reasons why I think her reads list is fake. Are you familiar with her playstyle? Could you provide a link to a game where you played together if you are familiar?

[I Am Innocent]

@IAI we aren't doing dx today move your vote onto SC. RM is a deadline compromise but SC is that scum lynch we are looking for.

d3x has the worst vote history of any player here, esp when you take out that his SC vote wasn't even his choice. Plus I still think there is scum in your hood, which a d3x flip clears you.

But yes I agree, SC will be the easier lynch today. Willing to move back to d3x, and compromise with RM.

unvote d3x
vote StrangerCoug

[I Am Innocent]

1) Nero did a WIFOM kill - then why didn't he take credit for that 'why would scum Nero kill TTH when she indicated she would've against an auto lynch of me D2'

2) Nero may have had a reason to kill TTH - please provide any reason you can think of cause I don't see it

3) maybe Nero didn't have a reason, but IAI did - once again I like to hear what reason you think that could be

Cause right now it feels like an omgus

Ps - no thoughts on my d3x voting analysis? Big surprise

[I Am Innocent]

*auto lynch of me D4

[I Am Innocent]

Would like a prod of RM

[I Am Innocent]

Well Nero, you got what you wanted. If ABR doesn't flip scum I'm putting you on ignore for the rest of the game.

And if ABR does flip town, do not automatically go after Nero tomorrow. d3x and StrangerCoug are still scum.

Rereading TTH's last post, I hadn't even noticed who the 2 scum reads are... So a TTH kill not only took out Nero's likely biggest supporter D4, but d3x's and SC's biggest thorns.

Yeah I feel good about my reads

[I Am Innocent]

I don't buy it for a second.
VOTE: StrangerCoug

VOTE: d3x

VOTE: d3x

No I don't want to vote dex I just Had a dream I was dreaming of this game lol.

I know. I wanted to trick you into thinking you were dreaming. Sadly, didn't seem to work.

Actually, I can see Nero Cain and randomidget not being scum together if I'm wrong about my reads quite easily. It's not

LIKELY

, but it's

POSSIBLE

.

Yeah why would you have them as scum together, your reason for voting Nero is a slip that he know RM is town?

Make a scumslip on purpose to give randomidget town cred? I'm not exactly here to predict the Mafia's actions, I Am Innocent.

So, to review:
You reverse the rock-solid town read on Nero on a theory that Nero

fabricated a

fake

scum slip

to give his buddy

randomidget

, of all people, towncred?

This is absolutely unbelievable.

VOTE: StrangerCoug

And her 4 D3 votes lol

[I Am Innocent]

VOTE: d3x

Sorry this one slipped off somehow

[I Am Innocent]

Guys I guarantee you if we lynch these 2 players the next 2 days, we will get at least one and maybe two scum.

[I Am Innocent]

Nero Cain an SC are both scum reads but I don't think they're scum together

So you think one scum is in Nero/SC? Who else is scum reads for you?

[I Am Innocent]

So I'm 100% that I want a Nero lynch, and 100% that I don't want an SC lynch.

95% OK with a RM and I'm pretty much back to 95% with a d3x lynch.

If someone other than IAI with his wifomy nk speculation bullshit, that he's using to skate through this day, can summarize the case on SC that would be lovely.

I'm skating thru this day? Because I'm against an RM wagon (already mentioned the similarities between his D2 wagon and penguins final wagon) and Nero, the one guy who pushed the ika wagon the hardest. The one you were against and voted at L+1?

I've pushed for alternate wagons and given reasons why (sc and d3x). And if u don't want my take on their scuminess, see the recently Nk'd townies D3 analysis.

But when sc and/or d3x flip scum, u've moved way up my list of possible teammates.

[I Am Innocent]

wow, SC becomes the leading wagon at L-2, and the RM hate comes out full force. Makes me feel better about the wagon I am on.

[I Am Innocent]

DGB, DS, and garmr, you can still make this happen.

[I Am Innocent]

Firebound could be scum but could just as easily be confused newbie.

Well Nero, you got what you wanted. If ABR doesn't flip scum I'm putting you on ignore for the rest of the game.

And if ABR does flip town, do not automatically go after Nero tomorrow. d3x and StrangerCoug are still scum.

VoteCount 4.0

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

TellTaleHeart has died. She was a

town even night rolecop

.

Day 4 ends in (expired on 2015-02-19 18:00:00).

[/color]

...

[I Am Innocent]

So I'm 100% that I want a Nero lynch, and 100% that I don't want an SC lynch.

95% OK with a RM and I'm pretty much back to 95% with a d3x lynch.

If someone other than IAI with his wifomy nk speculation bullshit, that he's using to skate through this day, can summarize the case on SC that would be lovely.

I'm skating thru this day? Because I'm against an RM wagon (already mentioned the similarities between his D2 wagon and penguins final wagon) and Nero, the one guy who pushed the ika wagon the hardest. The one you were against and voted at L+1?

Nero didn't push the ika wagon the hardest. He was being erratic like he always is but he was switching votes between RM and Ika. When I fucking asked him to give me a reason he was unable to, asked me what I'll do when ika flips scum; hello?!

To compare RM with pen you need to be off your meds.

I've pushed for alternate wagons and given reasons why (sc and d3x). And if u don't want my take on their scuminess, see the recently Nk'd townies D3 analysis.

You've pushed for AA and still AA wasn't even close to be a leading wagon: Sounds like you've accomplished exactly what scum wants which is distancing without getting your buddy killed just yet. You saved it for Day2 so everyone of your buddies can hop on board.

But when sc and/or d3x flip scum, u've moved way up my list of possible teammates.

You failed the reaction test. I said I don't want you to give me a case on SC and you fucking didn't. You're not town.
And shut up with the NK already. TTH said not to AUTOlynch Nero, she was probably for an eventual Nero lynch.

1) Nero did push the ika wagon. See posts 1116, 1119, 1121, 1123, 1133*, 1141, 1142, 1145, 1150, 1152, 1167, 1168, 1171, 1174, 1176, 1178, 1212, 1219, 1222, 1229, 1239, 1240, 1249, 1285, 1290, 1295, 1338, 1350, 1351, 1353, 1355, 1374, 1378, okay, i'm tired of this, stopping here. Point made tho???

*1133 has an interesting subquote of d3x defending ika (824 - "I have a hard time believing that's a thing Scumika would do. Unless something drastic changes, ika is Town.")

2) I didn't compare penguin with RM, I compared their wagons. It's why I voted ika over RM:

Interesting that of the first 7 players on penguins final wagon, 6 are either currently voting RM or have voted him today. (The 8th vote on that wagon was RM himself, followed by the self vote then Ikas hammer.)

I'm going to do a 180 here and:

unvote Nero Cain
Vote ika

I believe this makes 7 votes a piece (will move to RM to prevent a no lynch)

3) When I said I pushed for alternate wagons, I meant alternate, as in 'other' wagons D4...like d3x and SC. I was not referring to any suspicion I may or may not have had on Alt Acct/ika earlier in the game.

You said I was coasting today. I'm saying I'm one of the few people working towards a different wagon than Nero and RM. One, we've been there done that. Two, I think they're both town. So unless you think scum include {IAI, Nero AND RM}, coasting for scum-me would have been hopping on the townie of Nero an RM, no?

4) I gave a case on SC long before your supposed reaction test. Get with the program bud.

5) I love when players say scum use their NK for WIFOM. No scum use the NK FOR THEIR BENEFIT and then either themselves of let VI's put out that WIFOM crap. SC and/or d3x are scum and Nero is town. After this game you can tell me how great my play/reads were.

[I Am Innocent]

Time to look at D1. Maybe there's something that will help crack our Lynch for Today. Note- this builds directly off of Kthx's p691.

DudeWagon at it's pinnacle...

Albert B. Rampage (0):
AlternateAccount (0):
d3x (0):
dragonspawn (1): TheDudeAbides
Drake Crusader (0):
Dripping Goofball (1): randomidget
evilpacman18 (0):
firebound12 (1): Dripping Goofball
Flubbernugget(2): I Am Innocent, Peacebringer
Garmr (1):

killapenwin

I Am Innocent (1): Nero Cain
Kid A (0):

killapenwin

(2): d3x, NakedJogger
NakedJogger (0):
Nero Cain (0):
Peacebringer (0):
randomidget (0):
TheDudeAbides (7): Garmr, AlternateAccount, Kid A, Albert B. Rampage, Flubbernugget, dragonspawn, YuniChikako
YuniChikako (0):

Not Voting - Drake Crusader,

evilpacman18

, firebound12

With 19 alive it takes 10 to lynch.

penLynch...

Albert B. Rampage (0):
d3x (0):
dragonspawn (1): TheDudeAbides
Dripping Goofball (1): Kid A
evilpacman18 (0):
firebound12 (1): I Am Innocent
Flubbernugget(0):
Garmr (0):
I Am Innocent (1): Nero Cain
Ika (0):
Kid A (0):

killapenwin

(LYNCH): d3x, NakedJogger, Garmr, dragonspawn, Albert B. Rampage, Peacebringer, Dripping Goofball, randomidget,

Killapenwin

, Ika
Kthxbye (0):
NakedJogger (0):
Nero Cain (0):
Peacebringer (0):
randomidget (0):
TheDudeAbides (2): Flubbernugget, YuniChikako
YuniChikako (0):

Not Voting - Kthxbye,

evilpacman18

, firebound12

Thoughts in no discernable order...

The penLynch was the immediate fallout from the DudeWagon. Frequent fliers are Garmr, dragon, ABR, and the Hammer from AA/ika, with an honorable mention going to Flub. That's a lot of carryover.

ika- Assuming Scum, he knows that he's about to lolHammer a PR. Hell, he races Flub's Intent to Hammer. I have a hard time believing that's a thing Scumika would do. Unless something drastic changes, ika is Town.

IAI's p583 feels out of place to me. In p486 he supports the Wagon and says that if DGB shifts, he'll follow. She does. He doesn't. At the time of 583, pen is L-2 and DGB has been on the Wagon for ~2 pages. He admits his Vote is useless and there's definitely room on the Wagon, but he tries to start a FlashMob on Nero. After the Claim, he lightly prods pen, but still doesn't really take a stance.

@Flub- In your assessment, when did this happen?

killa decided to scumclaim via ate

Also, your 762 is a super strong reaction to 2 Votes on ika. Why?

Something feels off about Garmr.

Look at this - d3x tries to frame our claimed masons (DS & garm), confirmed dead town ika, and "honorable mention going to flub" (Hint hint, which one's the scum in this group...)

Also defends ika, flipped scum. Damage control for the scummate hammer of a town power role?

[I Am Innocent]

Anyone but d3x and SC is a bad play today.

[I Am Innocent]

4&5- Up until this point, I'd say I was having serious doubts about you. If you'd have said that you had a TownRead on Kthx and that you put any amount of stock in meta, I'd switch to you in a heartbeat and call in any markers I had to see you swing. As Kthx has said, we've been friends for decades and have played in nigh countless games together. We aren't always 100%, but to ignore his metaRead on me in favor of your own single point of data would be very scummy indeed. Having doubts in Kthx's alignment calls into question the veracity of his meta Read on me. I'd still like an answer to my new questions, but you've largely sated my suspicions.

Why should I have not believed that her? Why should I suspect DGB when you don't even suspect her?

Paranoia.

Oh, but I do suspect her....just not as much as certain others atm. I trust nobody in this game. d3x is dropping his town tells all over the place and I have no real reason other than POE to think he scum and yet the only reason I'm not calling him possible scum every other page is because I'm keeping my paranoia in check with him. I got a solid read on him and I'm sticking with it. It's new.

I think it is time you start listing this dropping of d3x's town tells that are all over the place.

[I Am Innocent]

Sigh I'm starting to have doubts about nerocain. He might of been stupid enough to believe dbgs thing.

Yes the Nero wagon needs to die. Lynching him (the guy who pushed the one scum wagon the hardest) from the neighborhood over d3x (the guy who pushed penguins wagon the hardest and defended ika D2) is stupid.

And lynch Nero before RM is also stupid. People are saying Nero was pushing ika over RM because RM was a power scum where ika was vanilla. Well lynching RM and a town flip of him kills those reasons too.

So for those that think RM is scum or want D2 info, okay, I get it. But the counterwagon needs to be SC or d3x, not Nero. And you, DS, and DGB need to join it

[I Am Innocent]

Next post, I want everyone's read on d3x and SC. If they survive today's lynching, I at least want this on record. I'll even go first.

Scum and scum

[I Am Innocent]

Next post, I want everyone's read on d3x and SC. If they survive today's lynching, I at least want this on record. I'll even go first.

Scum and scum

garmr, cough cough.

[I Am Innocent]

I kind of got a selfish request for scum. If they have to night kill a mason can they night kill me. Because dragonspawn is newer I think it would be a good experience for him to be confirmed town for a bit.

I think there's a good chance of this. Claim you have a strong town read of Nero now, and the scum will leave DS because of the two scum slips belief he has. Then NJ will say it is just WIFOM

[I Am Innocent]

Time to look at D1. Maybe there's something that will help crack our Lynch for Today. Note- this builds directly off of Kthx's p691.

DudeWagon at it's pinnacle...

Albert B. Rampage (0):
AlternateAccount (0):
d3x (0):
dragonspawn (1): TheDudeAbides
Drake Crusader (0):
Dripping Goofball (1): randomidget
evilpacman18 (0):
firebound12 (1): Dripping Goofball
Flubbernugget(2): I Am Innocent, Peacebringer
Garmr (1):

killapenwin

I Am Innocent (1): Nero Cain
Kid A (0):

killapenwin

(2): d3x, NakedJogger
NakedJogger (0):
Nero Cain (0):
Peacebringer (0):
randomidget (0):
TheDudeAbides (7): Garmr, AlternateAccount, Kid A, Albert B. Rampage, Flubbernugget, dragonspawn, YuniChikako
YuniChikako (0):

Not Voting - Drake Crusader,

evilpacman18

, firebound12

With 19 alive it takes 10 to lynch.

penLynch...

Albert B. Rampage (0):
d3x (0):
dragonspawn (1): TheDudeAbides
Dripping Goofball (1): Kid A
evilpacman18 (0):
firebound12 (1): I Am Innocent
Flubbernugget(0):
Garmr (0):
I Am Innocent (1): Nero Cain
Ika (0):
Kid A (0):

killapenwin

(LYNCH): d3x, NakedJogger, Garmr, dragonspawn, Albert B. Rampage, Peacebringer, Dripping Goofball, randomidget,

Killapenwin

, Ika
Kthxbye (0):
NakedJogger (0):
Nero Cain (0):
Peacebringer (0):
randomidget (0):
TheDudeAbides (2): Flubbernugget, YuniChikako
YuniChikako (0):

Not Voting - Kthxbye,

evilpacman18

, firebound12

Thoughts in no discernable order...

The penLynch was the immediate fallout from the DudeWagon. Frequent fliers are Garmr, dragon, ABR, and the Hammer from AA/ika, with an honorable mention going to Flub. That's a lot of carryover.

ika- Assuming Scum, he knows that he's about to lolHammer a PR. Hell, he races Flub's Intent to Hammer. I have a hard time believing that's a thing Scumika would do. Unless something drastic changes, ika is Town.

IAI's p583 feels out of place to me. In p486 he supports the Wagon and says that if DGB shifts, he'll follow. She does. He doesn't. At the time of 583, pen is L-2 and DGB has been on the Wagon for ~2 pages. He admits his Vote is useless and there's definitely room on the Wagon, but he tries to start a FlashMob on Nero. After the Claim, he lightly prods pen, but still doesn't really take a stance.

@Flub- In your assessment, when did this happen?

killa decided to scumclaim via ate

Also, your 762 is a super strong reaction to 2 Votes on ika. Why?

Something feels off about Garmr.

Look at this - d3x tries to frame our claimed masons (DS & garm), confirmed dead town ika, and "honorable mention going to flub" (Hint hint, which one's the scum in this group...)

Also defends ika, flipped scum. Damage control for the scummate hammer of a town power role?

Crap that was suppose to read confirmed dead town ABR

[I Am Innocent]

DS, I believe RM is at 5 votes and SC and Nero at 4. While d3x doesn't have any, both PB and myself have at least mentioned being willing to switch.

[I Am Innocent]

Anyone but d3x and SC is a bad play today.

I see your points. Though if tell managed to get a read, it was only one of them at max.

I don't see a reason for an rm vote today. I'd still prefer Nero but d3x or sc would be acceptable. We are likely to find scum in their midst.

I am confident that either Nero or d3x is scum.

d3x may be a better choice because if he flips scum Nero is probably not scum. If he flips town Nero is more likely.

also if he flips town it makes sc more likely.

not changing my vote yet but I'll look it over. What is th vote count right now on the four we are considering? Its hard for me to check on the phone.

DS, as much as I want either d3x or SC lynched, I'm not going to lie and say it has to do with a N2 investigation by TTH. Why then would she have switched her vote back and forth a few times between them D3?

No it is likely her one investigation was on you or garmr. Looking back she did seem adamant you two were town D3.

But still she did strongly suspect d3x and SC going into N3, was also ready to defend an auto lynch against Nero too. Unless Nero is town and/or they are scum, it was a poor NK choice for scum.

Plus the connections with Alt Acct/ika and both of them (more strong connection with d3x), I like either of them as the choice today, with d3x slightly preferable

[I Am Innocent]

unvote StrangerCoug
Vote d3x

[I Am Innocent]

So u think TDA is scum, and possibly one of the other neighbors (Nero) but not the other neighbor (d3x)? Lol

[I Am Innocent]

93 pages that scum list stinks

[I Am Innocent]

Sc, d3x, flubbernugget makes 4, possibly a 5th scum?

[I Am Innocent]

Without Nero, garmr, and TDA joining the d3x wagon, it will likely be RM.

He pushed the penguin wagon
Look at his vote history
Look at his defense of ika D2
He's in the neighborhood, and his flip will give us so much info (scum neighbor likely clears Nero and TDA, also RM for pushing him multiple days, including d2 vs ika)
N3 choice of TTH, one of the two people she suspected was d3x
Has he done anything townie the whole game, yet so many players have this magical town read on him (kith and SC are the first to come to mind).
Started D2 by pushing suspicion towards our masons and ABR, while deflecting from/defending ika and his D1 hammer

[I Am Innocent]

4&5- Up until this point, I'd say I was having serious doubts about you. If you'd have said that you had a TownRead on Kthx and that you put any amount of stock in meta, I'd switch to you in a heartbeat and call in any markers I had to see you swing. As Kthx has said, we've been friends for decades and have played in nigh countless games together. We aren't always 100%, but to ignore his metaRead on me in favor of your own single point of data would be very scummy indeed. Having doubts in Kthx's alignment calls into question the veracity of his meta Read on me. I'd still like an answer to my new questions, but you've largely sated my suspicions.

Why should I have not believed that her? Why should I suspect DGB when you don't even suspect her?

Paranoia.

Oh, but I do suspect her....just not as much as certain others atm. I trust nobody in this game. d3x is dropping his town tells all over the place and I have no real reason other than POE to think he scum and yet the only reason I'm not calling him possible scum every other page is because I'm keeping my paranoia in check with him. I got a solid read on him and I'm sticking with it. It's new.

I think it is time you start listing this dropping of d3x's town tells that are all over the place.

Kthx?

[I Am Innocent]

This big push of d3x right AFTER he says he'll pretty much be V/LA is suspect as hell.

I've went through IAI's case on d3x and this is the point in time where I'd be doubting my town read on him in most games. If I had started in this game, then sure, maybe he'd be using my meta knowledge of him against me to trick me, but I didn't start in this game, I replaced in thus he had no reason to start this game out full of his town meta other than the obvious conclusion that he's town.

I don't think a scum-Nero acts as he did yesterday. I've gone back and forth on this and I've come to the conclusion it'd be just too risky to try right after scum got lynched the day before AND the TTH NK fits with scum wanting to lynch Nero.

Nero Cain (3): StrangerCoug, Flubbernugget, NakedJogger

If there's scum still on Nero, I'd go with SC/Flubber. With RM being scum (wake up people), I'm not sure it's SC what with SC going after RM and all. I'm not scum-reading NJ anymore at this time, though today has me doubting myself on that read.

Lastly, TDA needs a harder look. After he escaped D1, he's pretty much skated under the radar. Pen was the reason TDA wasn't lynched and this has been overlooked I think. Once we get an RM scum flip, this is going to be addressed.

That's all the time I have for now. If I missed a question directed at me, let me know.

D3x had 3 votes before he claimed v/la, and the 5th vote was from nearly confirmed town garmr. So what is suspicious....PB who claimed to want to vote d3x just a few pages before the wagon took off.

No, that is a big reach on ur part.

[I Am Innocent]

My suggestion would be to vote SC and see who else hops on. Like I said earlier I would be happy with either SC or d3x over Nero or RM.

[I Am Innocent]

Oh hey, I love my ISO. IAI was defending Ika. So his attack on d3x for (partly) defending Ika is hypocritical.
I'd probably rather lynch IAI for that than d3x.

Yes I had trouble seeing scum ika hammer when flubber showed intent to do so D1 (why not let the other player do it instead of drawing attention to urself). Now I think it is likely they were both scum, so maybe the goon thought it was better to draw the heat over his partner.

Still you make a point that I'd like to counter, as they were some important diffences in d3x's defense and mine. If one person "partly" defended ika, it was me. I defended him in the middle of the day when nero was pushing him. d3x started the day

doing damage control in his first post

, trying to push blame to others (mason garmr, mason DS, town ABR, and to a lesser degree, Flubber).

Difference #1.

Difference #2, the bigger one, I was critical to getting ika lynched. RM was up 7-6 votes when I voted ika, and continued to push ika afterwards:

Interesting that of the first 7 players on penguins final wagon, 6 are either currently voting RM or have voted him today. (The 8th vote on that wagon was RM himself, followed by the self vote then Ikas hammer.)

I'm going to do a 180 here and:

unvote Nero Cain
Vote ika

I believe this makes 7 votes a piece (will move to RM to prevent a no lynch)

Three players voting ika that have or are willing to switch to RM...but none the other way.

Makes me want this ika lynch even more

No it's not it's the same people that pushed penguin

in reference to

Information-wise RM is the better lynch.

[I Am Innocent]

What was d3x doing during the RM vs ika saga:

I'll be on periodically for the next few hours. After that, I cannot guarantee that I'll be around for the deadline.

hint hint, cannot guarantee that he'll be around for the deadline....to change his vote. But then he magically appears:

omw

@Kthx- IAI just said he'd Hammer midget to avoid a No Lynch. Why are you switching?

/sigh

Your thoughts on ika include this...

Maybe RM is a scum PR and ika isn't

And just because he isn't here now, doesn't mean he wouldn't be here at the deadline, but w/e.

No use crying over spilled milk.

Hey look! IAI's here...

Someone not only was here, but didn't seem happy with the way things turned out.

So you had me, instrumental in getting ika lynched vs d3x trying every which way to keep ika alive at the deadline. big difference.

[I Am Innocent]

My preference is still d3x > SC > flubber > kthx >>>>>> RM (vanilla town compromise lynch to help ring up the players to the left) > then everyone else

[I Am Innocent]

IAI. Do you think me and TDA are scum?

Nope

[I Am Innocent]

I think you are both completely wrong on d3x. I think you are so worried that he might be town and if he is it will cost you an auto lynch D5.

[I Am Innocent]

TDA asked me my read on kthx, I had a strong town read on him at the end of D2, but he has dropped to null vs possible scum if there are 5.

[I Am Innocent]

I'll be around at the deadline, let's not panic folks, our one caught scum was a deadline lynch

I'd like to see those that suspect SC and/or d3x come together. The scum are obviously not bussing, or at worst pretending the way kthx did for about 2 secs on SC earlier.

[I Am Innocent]

garmr/DS, any chance you'd vote SC? If the answer is no, I think the two viable lynches are back to d3x for the good guys and RM.

[I Am Innocent]

VOTE: dgb

Ika wagon is shit. Reasoning behind it is shit. Last time you tried to push a shit wagon using your experience as an appeal to authority you were scum, which is kinda sad considering it was multiball. Ika is not whoever the fuck you're complaining about so get the fuck over yourself.

@nj wagon: Why is nj scum over a douche?

Flubber's last non-Nero vote.

Yo.

Nero/SC, TDA, and someone else is scum

Flubber's last scum list

Flubber, a Nero lynch isn't happening today, nor is TDA. Will you move your vote to SC then?

[I Am Innocent]

he claimed vanilla D2, no?

[I Am Innocent]

That isn't a slip. I was saying that if DGB was lynched, scum would be pushing his wagon. Dgb is a strong town read now. Kthxbye either has messed up and thinks he has a guilty on me, is scum or cannot concieve that I could do anything townie. Plz lynch lurkers look at the ones on my wagon there is scum there. I am a humble vanilla townie.

[I Am Innocent]

garmr, which of these 4 would you be willing to vote at the deadline?

d3x (i assume yes since ur on there now lol)
SC
Flubber
kthx

DS, you too. You two are likely going to be the drivers for whoever gets lynched...

[I Am Innocent]

Little less than 23 hrs til the deadline. Will wait to hear garmr and DS's thoughts before I consider moving my vote.

[I Am Innocent]

I wish u'd put d3x on ur permascum list

[I Am Innocent]

So SC has 4 votes, RM, Nero, and d3x have 3.

I have a town read on everyone voting d3x and SC currently. If the 7 of us stick together, I think we catch scum. Unfortunately garmr doesn't want to vote SC today and Nero and TDA don't want to vote d3x....sigh.

NJ and DGB, any chance you will swing over to one of these wagons?

[I Am Innocent]

@mod, please prod flubber...how many prods before a player is replaced?

[I Am Innocent]

still here, and still waiting.

While we're waiting, I have a question for kthx.

No. I will not let this stand. RM or bust.

Is bust in this instance, equal to a no lynch?

[I Am Innocent]

unvote d3x
vote StrangerCoug

[I Am Innocent]

Nero was town MVP, his reads were pretty amazing.

TTH as runner up. If it weren't for her words in her last post D2, Nero probably gets lynched D3, and the game takes a different spin.

Garmr, do you think you played a great game? I stand by what I said in the dead thread, did you, and DS for that matter, every consider why you were left alive over me, then PB? Both of our final lynch list included ALL the scum with only one town in it. Could it possibly be because your reads were off/not as good as you claim they were?

I enjoy playing with you, but sometimes your words about yourself come off as better than they actually are...

I personally would list Nero, TTH, PB, and TDA as all town MVPs over the masons.

Once again, I hope there is no hard feelings because I enjoyed playing with both masons, and had town reads on both of you most of the game, but please next time you're confirmed IS and not being NKd, please reevaluate ur reads

PS - thanks Brian for modding, great job! And thanks to the player list, I told my wife at one point that I hadn't had this much fun playing in a long time

PPS - I'll eat some crow now about my D2 comment that I was 95% confident that at least one of Nero and PB was scum lol. Glad we finally came together D3, D4, etc, a big key to the game!

[I Am Innocent]

If you say so, tho let the records show I didn't hop on the TDA or penguin wagons D1, voted ika over RM at a key moment D2, avoided Nero and RM day 3 & 4, and listed all 3 scum in my day four list of 4 players to lynch.

But keep telling itself our reads list were equal

[I Am Innocent]

If you say so, tho let the records show I didn't hop on the TDA or penguin wagons D1, voted ika over RM at a key moment D2, avoided Nero and RM day 3 & 4, and listed all 3 scum in my day four list of 4 players to lynch.

But keep telling itself our reads list were equal

Kinda like how you had none right in you could be anyone 2 and then replaced out

I was scum who took an SK bullet N2...not sure who you are confusing me with.

[I Am Innocent]

If you can't get people worked up or convince people you may as well be static noise.

Read the end of D2 again and tell me I wasn't instrumental in ikas lynch over RMs.

And once again I say I had all 3 remaining scum nailed in a group of 4 (which yes included dex) by day 4. So if you want to say I went back and forth between d3x and one of the scum, oh well, I'll still say I was more of a threat to be nk'd (which I was N4) over confirmed town who was never NK'd.

This is why people, in my opinion, get frustrated with you as you saw in the dead thread. You did not have a great game, but still try to twist it as such. Then taking pot shots at those of us who did play well and did most of the work. As Nero pointed out, there was a strong town block starting in day 4, that even RM got on board on, which led us to victory. The only mislynch that should have happened after day 3 was dex based on his suspicious voting history.

But as I'm sure u'll reply with, u disagree. Still I enjoy playing with u and would also play with DS again. I hope my comments don't come off as accusing u two of being bad players, just players that frustrated me with what I perceived were bad reads this game.

IAI out. Thanks again all, great game!