New York 180 (Endgame)

[SilverWolf]

Do you think ika absolutely follows Normal Guidelines?

Don't all Normal games have to follow the guidelines?

[SilverWolf]

OK.

So if we have a Cop it's still alive.

It should investigate vikingfan.

Does anyone know if someone claimed Cop already?

If so, judging by the fact that person isn't dead, maybe the dead Doc protected that Cop player, and could mean we're looking at 3 killing factions. The unique part of vf's claim rings a bit with that sentiment.

vf claimed he was told he was attacked and protected, ever heard of this before?

He's the only one who claimed cop so far. He said he got no result last night.

Those unique slots can also include mechanics.

This includes original ones not in the wiki.

Let's think on this for a minute. Why would VF, if Scum, go through the trouble of making an incredibly dubious-sounding claim when he could go the easy route? Do you remember when I claimed Sensor and how everyone reacted in spite of my honesty? Let's not forget the lessons of the past so quickly (I often tell this to myself).

The guy who claimed Doc, sans the RB and our Doc, may be killed Day 2. That much is obvious.

No one claimed doc. Boon crumbed it. He was killed. No one else has claimed doc.

[SilverWolf]

So why in the world wouldn't we force the scum to shoot him tonight. No RB, no doc.

Yes, what about this then? If he's alive tomorrow we question his results and his claim further rather than lynch someone who may actually be the cop for all we know right now?

[SilverWolf]

mathblade-don't ever change, you have no idea how badly I need to smile right now

[SilverWolf]

mathblade-don't ever change, you have no idea how badly I need to smile right now

Your wish is my command

Comedy? Romance?

Comedy, you've been doing great so far.

[SilverWolf]

Alrighty

Here's a free comedic wedding from your "videographer"

http://homestarrunner.com/sbemail205.html

I meant to catch up with this today but too much going on elsewhere.

Just leaving a note for myself (ISO pisskop for interactions, ISO NakedJogger, ISO FA_Q2, look back at who else was on which wagons)

SW, what kind of music do you like? This makes me feel pumped up-> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdLEz4OklXU

These are great, thanks!!

[SilverWolf]

Too bad not optional. Opinions now.

What if I can't figure it out yet?

[SilverWolf]

Guts are awesome. I hear every person has one. They help with digestion. Think in the thread.

ABR-made some genuine sounding posts today that made me think he really believes vf is fakeclaiming scum-I don't know why he lied about his tracker claim but apparently that's something he does all the time as either alignment. I don't really see anything scummy here.

vf-may be scum, he was highly scumread and then claimed cop before he got to L-1, then comes back with a very complex claim that isn't really all that believable, OTOH I wonder why anyone fakeclaiming would do such an elaborate claim which makes me think there might be some truth to it, especially after all the other set-up discussion was had, his flip would tell us a lot about those pushing him right now, I think

If I had to pick, he'd be the scum. BUT, I would rather not lynch him because IF he's being honest, I don't want to lynch the cop. SO, I say we wait until tomorrow to see if he survives the night and what his results are and exactly how he receives them and anything else he can tell us to show he's being honest. We give him suggestions on who to check at the end of the day, and he doesn't say who it will be.

So I'm not really up for a lynch on either of these two today and instead, after my V/LA is up:

-ISO pisskop for interactions

-wagon analysis on both wagons

-ISO's and read on people I'm wondering about

-vote

[SilverWolf]

Not to mention pk was defending him.

pisskop defended him a ton but I wonder if scum would defend each other like that knowing it would come back if associations were done?

[SilverWolf]

Noted. Thank you for your opinion. However I think not lynching in these two is a mistake.

I need a big stick to make people say opinions yo. Troll stick.

Which one do you think we should lynch? I'm open to listening to reasons.

[SilverWolf]

I think at this point we need to lynch Viking Fan.

Reason being if they are town they aren't likely to live very much longer to provide needed results. I also have significant doubts about their claim.
Secondly a doctor is dead. While possible there may be two docs I don't want to bet on us getting results from VF tomorrow. That bet is just bad.
Thirdly I have seen an assocation in D1 between NJ and VF. If VF is scum then we may be able to get NJ afterward pretty damn quick.

Now let's look at the converse and assume VF is town. Then ABR's play with the fake claim and how he immediately entered suggested a strategy of wanting to lynch VF out of the gate. His entire posting isn't really talking about anyone else and it suggests a certain confidence. One I'd expect him to put his own life behind. Therefore if VF is town then ABR very likely scum.

Therefore lynching VF from my POV will net us 1 scum or 2 in two rounds. It's protown to do as we can't put off lynching VF for results that may never be true or that we may never see.

Yay big sticks are awesome

So logically my head says VikingFan. My gut says ABR. Hence I'm down for both.

This makes sense and a lynch of one of these two will provide us much needed information. I would pick vikingfan over ABR if we go this route because it will also give us info. on all the people pushing him right now. I was going to suggest saving it for tomorrow if necessary but due to the info. that can be obtained and the distraction this will be until it is resolved, today is fine.

I'm going to do an vikingfan and pisskop ISO first just to make sure.

[SilverWolf]

I agree completely. I've thought about it and it really is the best way to go.

VOTE: vikingfan

[SilverWolf]

@SW: I'm still "meh" on the whole "lynch VF" train. I'm only considering lynching him because it seems like a necessity to get people to stop stuffing their heads up their asses.

I accept the fact that he could be scum, but I think the way we're going about this is completely wrong and I think the lynch is kind of lame based on the circumstances.

What do you think of ABR?

[SilverWolf]

Well, I've just decided to give VF one more night because I don't think it's fair that someone be lynched for poor circumstance.

You're one of them TouchyFeely LIBERALS who thinks everyone should get a trophy just for showing up, aren't you?

Hey, Don't knock TouchyFeely LIBERALS. That said I don't agree with him about Vikingfan, hence my vote is still there.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

To All:

I am waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay behind on this game and my V/LA officially ends tomorrow and I have a shit ton of work to do tomorrow so I may try to get on here tonight to post or it will be tomorrow night, maybe afternoon if I'm super lucky.

[SilverWolf]

OK ABR, First you get a couple votes and claim town tracker, then you say you mixed up role PM's and are actually VT, now you say you are the cop, VF is fakeclaiming, and ellie is guilty and is scum.

How on Earth are we supposed to believe a word you say? You probably could've gotten a VF lynch eventually.

Now say VF is lynched and flips town cop, you will be outed as scum fakeclaiming and will die the next day. There will be no discussion of your fate. You will be lynched. You do realize this right?

So what is your point? You either believe so hard that VF is lying that you are willing to risk your life to prove it or you are lying and want to get rid of the town cop in the worst way and are scum.

I have very little experience with multiple fakeclaims so I don't know what to believe right now. You and VF are probably both scum on opposing teams for all I know.

Damn, I picked the worst time to go V/LA. I have no idea what to think and I have a headache.

[SilverWolf]

Enough with all the damn lies!!

[SilverWolf]

I breadcrumbed shinobi town in case I died already.

I found this. ISO ABR and look for Shinobi.

[SilverWolf]

Yes, let's have all of town out their roles while ABR fake claims over fake claims over fake claims.

I think there should be no more claiming or soft claiming at this point. It helps no one but scum.

[SilverWolf]

I breadcrumbed shinobi town in case I died already.

I found this. ISO ABR and look for Shinobi.

So? We've only had one night since we started with day. He says he has a guilty on ellie and an innocent on Ellie but we've only had one night. That's impossible.

No, I meant the Shinobi is town breadcrumb. I'm not sure what to think of it yet, I'm just saying it's there is all.

[SilverWolf]

I honestly do not know what to think right now and every time I try to post something I hit submit multiple times and can't cuz people are posting at the speed of light. I need to read this when I have a minute to think it through.

[SilverWolf]

What. The. Fuck.

Are you sure that ABR isn't a jester / fool or whatever?
At this point he just threw the game in all sense of directions.

Not possible in a normal game. I wish it were that easy.

[SilverWolf]

Well, I gotta go. I will read through everything very carefully tomorrow.

*Hopes for less than 20 new pages*

[SilverWolf]

Some one tell me who to vote for..................GO!!

[SilverWolf]

Mmm veggies. I'm hungry.

... You've all lost your minds...

WEEEEEEEEEE.............................................................

[SilverWolf]

Poor wake...

Dude's gonna have a cow when he comes back here and see's this.

[SilverWolf]

Poor wake...

Dude's gonna have a cop when he comes back here and see's this.

FTFY

I totally needed a laugh.

[SilverWolf]

Was thinking more the one where the bottle hits the cameraman if we're talking soda disaster feels, BUT YES

OUCH!!

[SilverWolf]

You're not the cop. If you are gambiting town, my role is evidence that VF is town and you should adjust accordingly.

How does it prove which one of ABR or VF is telling the truth?

[SilverWolf]

I see ABR fighting harder than VF. He just feels more like town believing he's caught scum than VF does with his lack of any conviction or emotion behind them his posts on this. If I were him, and the cop, I'd be screaming my head off right now to lynch ABR. He's not doing that. It seems off the way he's letting others fight his battle while ABR is right out there in front fighting his.

[SilverWolf]

I see ABR fighting harder than VF. He just feels more like town believing he's caught scum than VF does with his lack of any conviction or emotion behind his posts on this. If I were him, and the cop, I'd be screaming my head off right now to lynch ABR. He's not doing that. It seems off the way he's letting others fight his battle while ABR is right out there in front fighting his.

I've been fighting for ages and screaming my head off about ABR being scum. What else are people wanting? I'm not going to post walls of posts like ABR has.

I'm not expecting walls. I'm just thinking how I would behave if it were me in either ABR's situation or yours. It isn't easy to figure this out and that's the best way I have of doing this right now. My experience with fakeclaims is very minimal and I have RL too........................

I may be a more emotional player than you but I would still be screaming from the rooftops to lynch ABR if I were you and the cop, like he's doing now about you.

[SilverWolf]

SilverWolf, I have seen very passionate and convincing scum weasel their way out of a sure lynch and get townies killed. Is there anything else that belies you to believe that?

Because I'm having such a hard time figuring out who is scum and who is town in this scenario and who is telling the truth and who is lying, I have to put myself in the situation as either alignment.

-I'm scum fakeclaiming cop at L-2, I get saved. The next day I claim I was killed but protected and was informed of this. Two others were killed. One person starts screaming for my lynch right away. Then later, claims cop and tries to lynch me. I would very likely make a case for myself but not show a lot of emotion and hide more while the others fight for me or against me and only show up if I feel it is necessary.

-If I'm town and cop and someone is fakeclaiming cop and I knew they were scum for it, I'd be throwing a fit. I would be doing everything in my power to get the scum lynched. I would not stop until he was dead.

-If I'm scum trying to lynch the cop, I would say I'm the cop, do what I need to do in a calm, calculated manner. I would present my evidence, I would try to get the other one lynched, I would be as logical as I could.

-If I were town and the cop and there was scum fakeclaiming cop, I'd be screaming over and over and over to lynch that person. I'd claim, I'd get worked up, I'd probably miss work LOL, I'd never stop until he was dead.

-That last scenario is exactly what ABR is doing. And according to others that know his meta, is his town play over his scum play.

[SilverWolf]

I suck at this game......................................................

VOTE: ABR

[SilverWolf]

If we did have a town day or night vig, here you are - any of these are not only fair game but will die if I don't die first (hey town I'm a claimed PR, why not lynch me next):

Dragonspawn, FA_Q2, silverwolf, Naked jogger, ABR, mathblade, ozgin shinobi, wake88

You know, if this is supposed to be everyone who was wrong about VF, you should add TSO and Nobody Special to this and FA jumped off this wagon before the lynch happened.

I mean if you want to kill most of the game over being wrong about something and making a mistake, you might as well get it right.

I mean you and GM have never made a mistake or gotten something wrong in a mafia game right? I guess we should all be chastised, mocked in future games, and killed in this one.

I mean, that makes perfect sense. Everyone on that wagon has to be scum. None of us could be town who made a mistake. Or maybe not dealt with this scenario before and didn't find VF claim believable.

I mean that's not possible right?

And everyone who was right here is confirmed town now right? None of them are scum who knew the truth and wanted no part of the lynch right?

[SilverWolf]

I need to go re-count but I think ABR is at L-1 now.

[SilverWolf]

However, I suggest that you move the game forward instead of engaging in theatrics at this point.

What do you think the first two posts of yours in this game was anyway? OR GM's first few posts?

Please stop dividing town. And you don't get to tell us who is off limits and what we get to do and don't do here.

I did move the game forward by saying ABR was at L-1 to prevent a quickhammer.

Your welcome. I'll come back later when I am less annoyed.

[SilverWolf]

SW, I don't see you fulfilling your town meta in this game SilverWolf and also your annoyance has no worth to me since there is no reason for it. Nonsensical nonsense.
GM, don't get involved with SW's nonsense. It's become on par for the course.

Excuse me. Do I know you? You have no right to talk to me like this. You should of asked me why I was annoyed. Could be you said over half the game should be killed in your opening posts or that mathblade is filling up this game with garbage or that yesterday was a complete and total waste of a day and that this one looks no better. Perhaps you should learn to think first before you spout off your BS and post it here.

Kitz is fucking off limits because Ellie was sure on her and at this point in the game I trust Ellie's reads above anyone else's.

Did you go back and look at her reads besides Kitz and see who she was scumreading and who she was townreading? That might be a better use of your time then telling me my words are nonsense. Stop diving town right now.

[SilverWolf]

Anyway, lynch me if you have to. I tracked Mathblade to Ellie last night.

And we should believe you because?

[SilverWolf]

Dragonspawn isn't voting ABR right now so it's actually L-4 since mathblade voted herself again.

[SilverWolf]

Mathblade is a bulletproof SK.

I think this is possible. I can't think of any town roles where someone can only be killed by lynching and are immune to scum Nk's.

Can anyone else?

[SilverWolf]

As for Ozgin, its the going with the crowd that annoys me.

Can ALL OF TOWN please give a reads list. Take the players name from the OP, put it in spoilers and a short thing of what your current feelings are. Thanks.

Ozgin replaced House, House was town, Ozgin is town. I know what I'm talking about here.

I will give you the reads list you are asking for as soon as I have time to do a couple ISO's later today.

[SilverWolf]

Mathblade is a bulletproof SK.

I think this is possible. I can't think of any town roles where someone can only be killed by lynching and are immune to scum Nk's.

Can anyone else?

....Called X-shot bullet proof townie...My X just happens to be missing and I have a stupid post restriction

I don't believe this is a town role because town BP's have modifiers. It only makes sense if you are an SK. Otherwise, it's too powerful.

Acryon didn't seem to be under any kind of post restriction.

I would like input from those who have modded or know something about Large Normals.

[SilverWolf]

Wait house replaced out? No? What?

Who are you and what did you do with elusive?

[SilverWolf]

ABR is at L-1.

[SilverWolf]

This is super bare bones and I need to ISO people and flesh these out but wanted it in here quick before the day ends again. BASIC reads subject to change on further investigation.

Spoiler:

Playerlist:
acryon* Mathblade-don't like her claim, before that leaned town but ABR flip could help with this if he isn't lying again about being the tracker
Kitz-leans town
joker443 Naked jogger-scummy
TheFireRises Shinobi-who the fuck knows
croboss Nobody special-leaned scum, then town so meh
GGG Pisskop-dead scum, good riddance
dragonspawn-lean town due to meta
Klingoncelt-RIP town
elusive-lean town but needs to stop being so divisive
Grib-townread Grib, do NOT townread GM-tbd
Wake88-scummy for many reasons-not reading, only voting to quickhammer, not giving input-bleh
Aeronaut-lean town
House Ozgin-town
T S O-some scum motivated behaviors, some townie looking actions also-could he be both town and scum? LOL
Cheetory6-lean town
Jared615 Ellie-RIP town
Boonskiies*-RIP town
julianmolina13 ABR-possible scum or lying town-will find out soon
FA_Q2-seems a little off, possible scum
vikingfan-RIP and very sorry

[SilverWolf]

please unvote ffs

Kitz unvoted, he's back to L-2, all is well.

[SilverWolf]

Aero-Please spoiler all future reads lists. TIA

I put dead flips in my reads lists to help ananlyze the overall game state.

Not sure what you expect but I have a ton of posts in this game and was V/LA most of D2.

Why is almost everyone on your list a scumread?

[SilverWolf]

Hint: It is protown to lynch me. Please do so now.

OK, mathblade is officially weird this game.

[SilverWolf]

Also, she's probably 3P something or other.

[SilverWolf]

Hint: It is protown to lynch me. Please do so now.

OK, mathblade is officially weird this game.

Nooooooooo I'm not weird....not at all. Oh and ABR is town and I'm town. But I promise that things will make sense. I'd probably be your best lynch today as then I can explain why certain people are conf town. Please lynch the MathBlade

Really?

[SilverWolf]

Why is almost everyone on your list a scumread?

He's got like 5.5 out of what, 17? 18?

That's about how many Scum there are likely to be.

Hi Aero,

Did you just change your name to goodmorning?

[SilverWolf]

Hint: It is protown to lynch me. Please do so now.

OK, mathblade is officially weird this game.

Nooooooooo I'm not weird....not at all. Oh and ABR is town and I'm town. But I promise that things will make sense. I'd probably be your best lynch today as then I can explain why certain people are conf town. Please lynch the MathBlade

Really?

Really. Lynch me.

Will it help town or just you?

[SilverWolf]

Really?

... Focus on someone else than MethBlade.

I've got my vote on ABR still. Not moving it.

[SilverWolf]

Kitz I'm MathBlade not MethBlade.

I don't see a calculative person.
I see a person high on meth.

Figured MethBlade was more appropriate to your play.

I didn't even catch that...................

[SilverWolf]

UNVOTE: I reserve the right to hammer myself

Kitz I'm MathBlade not MethBlade.

@SilverWolf -- It will help all town Scum would hate me.

You are giving me a headache.

BTW everyone-ABR is back to L-3 with dragon's unvote and math voting herself again.

[SilverWolf]

Why is almost everyone on your list a scumread?

He's got like 5.5 out of what, 17? 18?

That's about how many Scum there are likely to be.

Hi Aero,

Did you just change your name to goodmorning? [/quote]
Since goodmorning is currently trying to read you and that question is both non-essential and odd, no.

If this town can't lynch claimed scum it deserves to lose.

I CLAIM I AM A SCUMFUCK!

oh god don't take me back to RAGE

RAGE[/quote]

But I may actually of had a reason for asking Aero that question......................................how do you know it was non-essential and odd to me. I might of wanted further clarification on his reads since just about everyone is null or scum and his FA townread/considering he says FA is under the radar seemed weird to me.

So yes, I did have a method to my madness.

And math-FFS

SERIOUSLY

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Massive quote fail and I don't really give a fuck. Not fixing it. I'm tired of quote striping.

[SilverWolf]

Aero-I asked the question for the reason I stated in my quote.

[SilverWolf]

But I may actually of had a reason for asking Aero that question......................................how do you know it was non-essential and odd to me.

I knew it was non-essential because it was based on a false premise, and I felt that it was odd because it was based on a false premise.

I might of wanted further clarification on his reads since just about everyone is null or scum and his FA townread/considering he says FA is under the radar seemed weird to me.

Then surely you would ask him to clarify his reads, rather than asking why he had so many scumreads, since the answer to the latter would surely be "I don't."

How do you know I wouldn't of asked him to clarify? The problem with this line of questioning GM, is you don't know where I was going with it because you interfered and answered for him. All his answers are a direct result of things you said.

I was opening up a discussion on his reads specifically to get him to talk to me about them. I would of appreciated you let him answer and saw where I was going with it before interfering and answering for him. If you would of had a problem with the way I approached it, then you can ask me about it after I'm done talking to Aero.

[SilverWolf]

Aero-I asked the question for the reason I stated in my quote.

Yea, I'm not satisfied with that answer, really. Why wouldn't you just ask me to clarify my reads instead of asking me a different question altogether, one that was based on a false statement?

And, to be honest, no, not everyone is null or scum in that pile. I also have 4-5 town reads there. So you're

still

making things up.


P-edit: yea, that.

I'm not making anything up. I was opening up a dialogue about your reads. Your hyper defensiveness over it and buddying with GM is disturbing at best.

Anyway, I got the answers I needed.

Thanks

[SilverWolf]

Anyway, I got the answers I needed.

Thanks

What answers have you gotten?

Because I did not elaborate on FA, yet. And that's what you asked me. So in reality, you've gotten no answers, you just sort of want to end this before you make too much of a scene?

Please do not put words in my mouth insinuating I was going to make a scene. That's just blatantly false. I never got a chance to ask you about FA or anything else because GM answered for you. Feel free to answer any of the things I said to her about your reads. However, the both of your reactions to me asking this question tells me a heck of a lot more than the actual answers I was looking for anyway so I'm good. Thanks.

[SilverWolf]

.how do you know it was non-essential and odd to me. I might of wanted further clarification on his reads since just about everyone is null or scum and his FA townread/considering he says FA is under the radar seemed weird to me.

But, to answer this.

The part about everyone being either null or scum is false, so I don't really know what to tell you. It says town next to like five people's names.

Nope, I said just about everyone. Not everyone.

[SilverWolf]

One of the real problems I see with this is it looks like GM is doing some serious buddying in this game. Most noteably to Aero and Kitz but also to a lesser extent to mathblade and this is something I'm going to take note of in my read on GM. I do not like it.

[SilverWolf]

Ok, well SW, your readlist has 2 scumreads, and the rest are null or town. Is

THAT

scummy?

Re-read it Aero. I have more than that. I'm voting one of them. I've got NJ, Wake, and FA on there too plus I think math is 3P or SK.

And nope, giving reads isn't scummy and I never said it was. Do you see me accusing you of using a false statement here though? Nope.

GM's buddying is a far bigger concern to me right now. It directly conflicts with my earlier townread of Grib.

And yeah mathblade, we need a better explanation of why you should be lynched.

[SilverWolf]

LOL@ika-sorry about our excessive posting making things difficult for you.

And GM, I tried to answer you point by point but screw quote striping.

FFS, I keep messing it up.

What does that busy bumblebee line mean?

[SilverWolf]

GM-If anything I screw up my buzzwords more than anything. I think I need to go refresh my wiki definitions of some of these things to prevent that.

BUT, I've been accused of buddying when I've been town just being friendly before and also been the victim of some serious scum buddying/manipulation that has worked super well on me so I'm just paranoid and wary of it no matter what.

I welcome friendliness, that's what makes these games fun, but it might take me a minute to distinguish the motivation behind it due to past bad experiences with it.

[SilverWolf]

Well, I'm still voting ABR.

[SilverWolf]

I really give up on trying to figure out math. I tried and I simply do not get it at all.

I don't think ABR is a town tracker.

[SilverWolf]

I'm a doctor, full BP, vigilante, tracker yo.

[SilverWolf]

Awesome

I wish I was all those things

I'm like a super PR.

Can't touch this.

[SilverWolf]

No, look, seriously.

With a Full Cop and a Full Deputy, a Tracker wouldn't exist in a game this size.

I agree that three investigative roles are too many in this game.

My vote is still on ABR.

[SilverWolf]

I'm a doctor, full BP, vigilante, tracker yo.

knew you were town

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I also am a wolf-horse.

[SilverWolf]

I'm a doctor, full BP, vigilante, tracker yo.

knew you were town

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I also am a wolf-horse.

I knew that too lol

I figured as much.

[SilverWolf]

I was thinking more about the tracker role. If I was a tracker and we had a claimed cop that no one believed, I would have been tracking that cop to find out if he was truly investigating who he said he was. And I would do that before leading the charge to lynch him the next day.

So why, if abr believed Viking was lying about being the cop, wouldn't He have followed him the first night to prove or disprove his claim? It doesn't make any sense to track someone else.

Agree'd yet N1 he said he tracked Shinobi to nowhere. The same person he said he investigated as the cop.

Why does anyone believe he's the tracker?

[SilverWolf]

Sorry math, but you've lost all credibility to me with your play and I just can't understand or get what you are trying to do and therefore I'm not going to be able to listen to you today on lynching you.

I don't believe ABR's tracker claim. He's lied numerous times. This is enough for me to lynch him today.

End of story.

[SilverWolf]

Why are you voting No Lynch?

Did I miss something again?

[SilverWolf]

I guess who I'd vote comes down to who will tell me the most with their flip.
. Klingon claimed VT, House softed neighbor with Klingon. Besides her reads, I'm not seeing any other benefit.
. NJ was a townread independent of his interactions and reads. His flip will only affect those pushing him.

Vote: Klingon

I'm not sure what connection you see between me and Ellie as there is no in-game connection

Really?

Does this make sense?

My opinion is it's scumposting.
MathBlade derailed this line of questioning - but putting it out there because I want opinions.

[SilverWolf]

OMG-I mean to say....................My opinion is, it's scumposting.

Don't know how it got inside that quote.

[SilverWolf]

elusive: naked jogger
naked jogger: mathblade
No Lynch: elusive
mathblade: ABR, Cheetory6
ABR: Wake88, Aeronaut, silverwolf, Kitz, dragonspawn, TSO, goodmorning [L-2]

not voting: Shinobi, Nobody Special, Ozgin

[SilverWolf]

@Nobody Special

Do you have an opinion on the gamestate right now since I believe you are the only one we have not heard from yet?

I would prefer we do the least shitting up the thread as possible with the remainder of this day if you guys don't mind.

Thanks

[SilverWolf]

Wake-do you have any reads on any of the players in this game right now?

[SilverWolf]

Wake-do you have any reads on any of the players in this game right now?

I've not had enough time and energy to read enough to develop reads.

If I post reads on people based on a handful of posts I've read in the last few pages people will

bitch

.

I'm f****** busy, and struggling to find the wherewithal to play. It's aggravating. It's 9pm here and I feel like I've been beaten up by a 500lb gorilla.

Sorry life is tough and busy for you. A simple read on a few people from anything you have seen in this game at all would be extremely helpful.

[SilverWolf]

Wake-do you have any reads on any of the players in this game right now?

I've not had enough time and energy to read enough to develop reads.

If I post reads on people based on a handful of posts I've read in the last few pages people will

bitch

.

I'm f****** busy, and struggling to find the wherewithal to play. It's aggravating. It's 9pm here and I feel like I've been beaten up by a 500lb gorilla.

Sorry life is tough and busy for you. A simple read on a few people from anything you have seen in this game at all would be extremely helpful.

Not when I then hear bitching about it.

"Oh, why didn't you read all 3,500 posts four times over? Why? WHY?

WHY

??? WHY?!?!? SCUM! SCUM!!!"

It's never good enough. If I pull over and put 20 minutes towards a light read players will then find excused to bitch about it and demand I put hours and days in when it's not gonna happen.

Few people listen to me anyway in this game, so why should I even care? Hell, the other people of this so-called Town team didn't help me all that much when I simply asked for a brief recap of what happened, and if I had been given just a tad more information maybe I wouldn't have made a mistake here or there along the way.

I'm getting the feeling that it's becoming impossible for me to play Mafia while I'm working, because I function best when I put in either all or nothing.

What can I do to help you Wake? You should stick to one game at a time.

[SilverWolf]

Wake-What Ozgin and elusive said. I know what it is like to get upset in a game when I've posted when RL is hell or I'm tired or stressed or whatever. You've seen it from me before. So just relax and take some rest and come back when you are a little more relaxed. Mafia can be fun but it can also be stressful if you let your RL stresses get into it and even if you are in a great mood, it can aggravate you if you let it. It's only a game. It's o.k. friend.

[SilverWolf]

Unilaterally going on Limited Access for work-related reasons until 3/13/15

*I really should stick to only one game at a time.

Perfect.

[SilverWolf]

Y

Thank you, Wolfie.

Anytime.

[SilverWolf]

well cus ppl are now making vc in my absense......

No offense ika, LOL.

[SilverWolf]

well cus ppl are now making vc in my absense......

No offense ika, LOL.

Its fine for players to make their own makeshift VC when i'm not around. I try to do it at least once every 48 hrs. Im almost always around in gneral so if a player wants one they can jsut ask

I like to do it. It helps me keep track of who voted for who and when and make sure there are no more lolhammers and we don't NL before deadline and to do a brief VCA etc.

It's just me being anal retentive ika so no worries.

[SilverWolf]

@ika, I love the rainbow ones

I second this. The rainbows are awesome.

[SilverWolf]

Perfect ika, exactly.

Now I already feel happier, LOL.

[SilverWolf]

VC 2.0

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Mod notes: RAINBOWS!

This is really good ika!!

[SilverWolf]

Colors!!

Spoiler:

#368BC1 Glacial Blue Ice
texcat

#FFA62F Cantaloupe
ika

#EDDA74 Goldenrod
ds

#347235 Medium Forest Green
mika

#E8ADAA Rose
egg

#7FFFD4 Aquamarine
artist

#FBB917 Saffron
flubber

#FC6C85 Watermelon Pink
abr

#F3E5AB Vanilla
nika

#8C001A Burgundy
sw

#8AFB17 Chartreuse
tso

#E77471 Light Coral
house

#FFD801 Rubber Ducky Yellow
kc

#4E387E Purple Haze
garmr

#FF2400 Scarlet
anen

#7D0541 Plum Pie
delta

#8A4117 Sienna
shiro

#008080 Teal
elusive

#B4CFEC Pastel Blue
dave

[SilverWolf]

LOL @ika

The best troll mod evah!!

[SilverWolf]

SilverWolf, any thoughts on the ABR discussion or NakedJogger?

I think they are both scum. I'm voting ABR.

I don't believe ABR is the tracker. I don't believe that is balanced in this set-up with a cop and a back-up cop. I believe he lied about that and lied about a lot of things in this game. His flip with be informative.

It is perfectly acceptable to think scum would risk this because pisskop was a RBer and therefore likely the only one-not certain of this but probably unless there are two factions that can RB-don't know how that would work in a Normal. So they would have to kill the cop overnight. Getting him lynched means they don't have to worry about him and can kill Ellie. VF's claim was very unbelievable and would therefore not be too hard to convince town to go along with, especially since VF was scummy D1.

Depending on the size of their team, they probably thought it was worth it to try.

This is my best guess and why I think we should lynch him and the vig should take out NJ or Wake as they are both obvscum as far as I'm concerned. If there's a SK-they can do the dirty work as well.

Math-I don't know what's going on with her. Honestly, I don't have a clue. I ISO'd her again and basically got her screaming for ABR's head one minute and swearing he's town the next and saying she's a BP troll with a post restriction that needs to die to help town but I have no idea why.

[SilverWolf]

Hey elusive can you explain how the scum could have role blocked Viking after their rb was dead

No, but the doctor is dead so they would have a better shot at him yeah?

Assuming no second doc

There could be another nonconsecutive one of these.

[SilverWolf]

dragonspawn is prob town

[SilverWolf]

Can I just say I have my reasons for now or?.............................................

[SilverWolf]

Can I just say I have my reasons for now or?.............................................

I'm fine with that. Would it be fair for you to share them with us tomorrow, though?

Sounds reasonable.

[SilverWolf]

FA reminds me of this no nonsense teacher I had in school that would tell us all to pipe down and pay attention.

[SilverWolf]

Wow OK.........................................

VOTE: Naked Jogger

[SilverWolf]

If I read that correctly, it means that ABR even lied about following math and that she visited someone night 1. Am I incorrect about that?

You know what stinks? We don't even know who he followed for real both nights....................

[SilverWolf]

Wake, I wish you'd stay but I understand. See ya in another game.

[SilverWolf]

Town,
Who are your top 2 scum reads today and why?
Who were you voting yesterday and why?

How about I answer this in more detail that than even?

Naked Jogger and Wake-Wake has done nothing all game except complain about not staying caught up, getting really angry/defensive over posts that do nothing but ask him for reads and opinions while at the same time refusing to give them, quickhammered VF and never explained why, only voted one time all game, and kind of feels like his scum game because as town he's usually more easygoing-at least when I played with him offsite in a town game. As scum, he doesn't like to take a stand. I don't like his replace out either. I mean, you are unhappy town lied so you are going to leave the game? That seems off to me.

NakedJogger-Besides his quickhammer on Klingon, what has he done to help the gamestate move forward? Voted elusive as a PL, has done no actual scumhunting that I've seen, has mostly been in the background and under the radar, he looked townie at the beginning of the game and just kind of faded and a lot of the people he has voted for are not explained.

GM's fencesitting could mean she's scum. Grib's few posts looked like town Grib but he didn't make a lot of them and GM's mostly been talking set-up spec except when she's buddying people or talking about how she can't read people. Some of her posts also are kind of not explained well is the best I can say right now. I thought her buddying up with Aero to attack me over a semantics issue was pretty fishy and calling Cheetory town over one post was meh.

NS could be scum but there are a couple posts which make me re-think that and I'm not going to speculate.

TSO, Aero, Cheetory are light townreads because there are a few things that have given me pause but they can lean town for now. Kitz, elusive, Ozgin, dragon are townleans.

FA and Shinobi I'm not really sure of-sometimes they look town, sometimes they look a little scummy but it's a hard call on them for right now.

I was voting ABR yesterday elusive and explained why here 3634.

[SilverWolf]

As a side note, while I've had a lot of fun this game, I think it's so long now that it would be anti-town of me to do anything but post content posts from here on out or make observations, ask questions, etc.

In other words, I'm not going to fluff or shit up the thread and in that regard I'd like to talk about what's out there that's against us in this post.

N1-3 kills/kill attempts: boon (doc) this has got to be a mafia kill or maybe ww/other mafia faction or possible SK, it wasn't a vig I don't think, pisskop-this was vig/SK/or rival mafia group if there is one, attempt on VF-since he claimed cop it's not a vig shot but more likely mafia but since he was RB'd, then likely rival mafia group or WW

N2-Only Ellie died, this tells me if there's a vig they are nonconsecuitive or X-shot, and/or she was attacked by mafia twice maybe and SK? Seems unlikely so we might be able to rule out SK-not sure.

N3-only mathblad died-scum kill, had to have been, she was telegraphing pretty loudly about how her lynch hurts scum, again negates a SK being in the game because a SK would also be scum hunting if they were smart and playing smart.

Now, other thoughts. There could be a BP SK in the game that is getting hit and not dying-again the lack of more than one kill makes me wonder except for N1.

So my guess, there's a vig or SK (one or the other, not both), and probably 2 mafia factions due to the number of kill attempts N1 and they must of gone for the same targets last two nights.

pedit-Yes GM on a couple issues, also I've seen your towngame once and you seemed like you didn't really want to get involved in the game at all and although I haven't played with you as scum, my understanding is you are more involved as scum than as town.

[SilverWolf]

Silver, what's making you lean town on TSO?
Do you disagree that his transitioned read on ABR is ridiculously sketchy?

I'll look over what you wrote about him in context and in detail when I have more time but this is mostly a feeling of frustrated town I get from him because a lot of his frustrations/annoyances are pretty much in line with what I'm thinking.

His transition on ABR was interesting lets say. I think because I pretty much agree'd with that lynch, I didn't think much of it. I also don't have good meta on TSO so I guess I need to look into that more as well if I try to flesh out this read some.

[SilverWolf]

@dragon-Can you elaborate on why you think GM is a gloating scum? Why is voting for you gloating?

GM-I think it's mostly you talking about not being able to read people that made me think you were fencesitting but I have some reads I haven't figure out yet and other than that, I don't see much fencesitting in your ISO. I think there is just something bothering me about your posts and I'm having trouble articulating or figuring out what it is yet but you are not a top scumread of mine or anybody I would support a lynch on today anyway.

Perhaps I need to meta you and TSO in particular when I get some time.

[SilverWolf]

pedit-Yes GM on a couple issues, also I've seen your towngame once and you seemed like you didn't really want to get involved in the game at all and although I haven't played with you as scum, my understanding is you are more involved as scum than as town.

Can you elaborate on this? I've played with her as scum and I came to the exact opposite conclusion.

Very first game I played here with her she was town and was scumread by almost everyone for her lack of participation in the game. She kept saying she didn't want anyone sheeping her because she was the IC but she didn't vote, her reads were not in depth, and she avoiding making too many comments at least D1. After that she was out as a PR and I don't remember what happened.

When I did some meta on her in that game, this was awhile ago so my memory isn't crystal clear, we are talking my first game here, I noticed she did a lot more in here scum games then she was doing in that game.

But if you've seen a more recent scum game of hers, that could of changed. I should re-meta her at any rate.

[SilverWolf]

Can I just say I have my reasons for now or?.............................................

I'm fine with that. Would it be fair for you to share them with us tomorrow, though?

Sounds reasonable.

Silver, I'd like you to answer this now.

He picked up on something that I think scum would of handled differently than he did.

Is there something specific about him you want me to look at? I have played with him a few times.

[SilverWolf]

Can I just say I have my reasons for now or?.............................................

I'm fine with that. Would it be fair for you to share them with us tomorrow, though?

Sounds reasonable.

Silver, I'd like you to answer this now.

He picked up on something that I think scum would of handled differently than he did.

Would there be harm in telling us that thing?

I think it would be a distraction at this point in the game and not really help move the game forward really. I think there's been enough of that for awhile.

[SilverWolf]

pedit-Yes GM on a couple issues, also I've seen your towngame once and you seemed like you didn't really want to get involved in the game at all and although I haven't played with you as scum, my understanding is you are more involved as scum than as town.

Can you elaborate on this? I've played with her as scum and I came to the exact opposite conclusion.

pedit-Yes GM on a couple issues, also I've seen your towngame once and you seemed like you didn't really want to get involved in the game at all and although I haven't played with you as scum, my understanding is you are more involved as scum than as town.

Can you elaborate on this? I've played with her as scum and I came to the exact opposite conclusion.

Very first game I played here with her she was town and was scumread by almost everyone for her lack of participation in the game. She kept saying she didn't want anyone sheeping her because she was the IC but she didn't vote, her reads were not in depth, and she avoiding making too many comments at least D1. After that she was out as a PR and I don't remember what happened.

When I did some meta on her in that game, this was awhile ago so my memory isn't crystal clear, we are talking my first game here, I noticed she did a lot more in here scum games then she was doing in that game.

But if you've seen a more recent scum game of hers, that could of changed. I should re-meta her at any rate.

Scummy. Why? Because when a dude asks you a simple question you don't write 3 paragraphs and close it with 'I should re-meta because everything I've said is proabably bullshit'

Shinobi-If you need any further details on this you can check newbie 1532.

[SilverWolf]

@ Dragonspawn, what's your read on NJ
@ NJ, what's your read on Dragon?

I've been saying he is scum from day 1. He has gotten worse.

Did you see my earlier question?

@dragon-Can you elaborate on why you think GM is a gloating scum? Why is voting for you gloating?

[SilverWolf]

good morning still seems like gloating scum who just so happens to vote for me when I was calling him on his scumminess yesterday.

If you read us in ISO I think you'll find that I called you Scum first.

But ok.

@Kitz: In a bit, maybe.

Wake's replace is weird.

Understandable if it is absolutely wrong. It does not sound scummy though - why would scum want out of a game they were being handed?

Wake is leaning scum for me atm because of earlier shenanigans (that hammer he did was VERY questionable) but his replacement does not lead credence to him being scum.

Except it adds to the out of character behavior he's been displaying all game.

[SilverWolf]

VOTE: NakedJogger[/]

Is that a vote?

I should probably look at a vc again to see where we are at then.

And Aero-NJ is a he.

[SilverWolf]

unofficial vc:

Naked Jogger: FA_Q2, Kitz, Nobody Special, SilverWolf, elusive [L-3]
dragonspawn: goodmorning, Aeronaut [L-6]
T S O: Cheetory6 [L-7]
goodmorning: dragonspawn [L-7]

Not voting: Shinobi, Naked Jogger, T S O, Wake 88, Ozgin

With 14 alive, it's 8 to lynch.

deadline: (expired on 2015-03-23 00:00:00)

ika's going to love me being a mini-mod, LOL

This is assuming elusive's vote counts and just to let everyone know where we are at so we don't quicklynch.

[SilverWolf]

What do you think about what I said about him Aero?

[SilverWolf]

NJ is worse that dragon. Did you see his fabricated scumreads earlier today? People were scum together for asking/answering questions or talking about reads. He's not doing anything whatsoever to advance the gamestate. He hammered Klingon and voteparked elusive. He whines all the time about the players in this game almost as much as Wake whines about not wanting to read or vote.

He is scummier than dragon.

I'm not understanding your resistance to NJ if you think he's scum and why you are so persistent on dragon right now.

pedit: @Aero

[SilverWolf]

Is Jester possible in this setup?

No

[SilverWolf]

Well, damn. Wake and NJ were my top two scumreads. One was town and the other is replaced.

I have no clue where to go from here.

[SilverWolf]

Silverwolf, why does wake being replaced make him not a scumread anymore?

That slot is still a scumread but I usually like to let replacements catch up and give thoughts first and I don't think he's going to be able to answer questions I had for Wake.

[SilverWolf]

unofficial vc:

Not voting: Shinobi, Naked Jogger, T S O, Ozgin, marquis, Nobody Special, SilverWolf, elusive, goodmorning, Aeronaut, FA_Q2, dragonspawn, Cheetory6

With 13 alive, it's 7 to lynch.

deadline: (expired on 2015-03-25 00:00:00)

anal retentive mini mod with a new deadline and vc because I like to annoy ika

[SilverWolf]

What is the mylo and lylo situation? How many more mislynches can be afforded if any?

I have no idea because I have no clue how many scum are left, if there is one team or two, if there's a SK still out there.

Ugh....................................I know nothing except Pisskop is the only dead scum and his kill was most likely the result of a vig but possibly SK or other faction.

I really do not know at all.

I'm going to go take a look at other Large Normals to see what was done in the past so I can at least try to figure out how bad our position is right now. :/

[SilverWolf]

I did find this:

Balancing Mafia games is an art unto itself. However, in general a Mafia should make up about 20% to 25% of your initial population of players. The number of total scum in the game CAN go up to 33% of the total players if the Town is particularly strong, but this 33% usually does not come from one faction.
Generally, a faction is stronger when it has more members. This is why six-person Mafia teams are not at all common.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mafia

So yeah, not in mylo right now I don't think with 13 alive and pisskop dead.

[SilverWolf]

good morning still seems like gloating scum who just so happens to vote for me when I was calling him on his scumminess yesterday.

If you read us in ISO I think you'll find that I called you Scum first.

But ok.

@Kitz: In a bit, maybe.

Wake's replace is weird.

Understandable if it is absolutely wrong. It does not sound scummy though - why would scum want out of a game they were being handed?

Wake is leaning scum for me atm because of earlier shenanigans (that hammer he did was VERY questionable) but his replacement does not lead credence to him being scum.

You may notice the word I use there is "weird."

I'm starting to think SilverWolf is Town? I don't know, this game doesn't make sense anymore.

elusive could be Scum. I don't know anything.

What makes you think elusive is scum?

[SilverWolf]

Nobody Special: T S O

Not voting: Shinobi, Ozgin, marquis, Nobody Special, SilverWolf, elusive, goodmorning, Aeronaut, FA_Q2, dragonspawn, Cheetory6

With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch.

deadline: 12 days, 10 hours, 53 minutes

@ika

You are missing Kitz so isn't it 13 alive still?

[SilverWolf]

OK Cheetory-I will ISO T S O and look at NY 178 and find a town game of his and look at it as well and get back to you later today or tomorrow.

[SilverWolf]

Poking "Nobody Special", "Shinoby", "T S O" and "Aeronaut".

Are these your current scumreads and if so, why?

[SilverWolf]

Ika can we get a vc

I am trying to pin down a motivation for this post.

I am not succeeding.

Why do you think asking for a vc is alignment indicative in the least?

[SilverWolf]

Ika can we get a vc

I am trying to pin down a motivation for this post.

I am not succeeding.

Why do you think asking for a vc is alignment indicative in the least?

I doubt it is. But it is odd when no one has votes yet.

I don't get why it's a problem to see the new countdown and how many are still alive. Again, why is this even an issue right now?

[SilverWolf]

Aero you scumbucket for asking for a vc.

Sheesh.........................................

[SilverWolf]

GM/Aero buddying noted.

[SilverWolf]

That was for everyone. I'm buddying everyone.

Between that and asking for a VC, I don't know why I haven't been turbolynched yet tbh

No shit!!

Get the rope!!

[SilverWolf]

VOTE: Marquis

This post should explain.

3714

[SilverWolf]

GM/Aero buddying noted.

We have been for ages, I'd almost thought we'd gotten away with it.

I caught onto it for my own reasons.

~cryptic~

[SilverWolf]

The thing about the Wake replace is that it really doesn't make sense from Scum. Shitloads of Town PRs are dead, sounds to me like Scum want to finish the game.

It's not the replace out but the rest of his out of character behavior and uselessness all game that makes him likely scum.

[SilverWolf]

I've been kind of busy lately but I can pull specific posts when I have time if necessary to explain further if anyone wants me to.

[SilverWolf]

Aero you scumbucket for asking for a vc.

Sheesh.........................................

I wasn't calling Aero scum.

I never said you were. I was talking about NS implying it.

A little defensive this game or what?

[SilverWolf]

I completely disagree that Wake's replace out is town. Seriously, he was scummy as fuck before that and he could of just decided he needed to replace and did it in such a way so people would think it's townish.

I am not letting him off the hook when he's been obvscum the whole game and it looks like I'm going to have to case this latter when I have time.

Wake is scum. Marquis has done nothing to make me change my mind on that spot either.

[SilverWolf]

Who says he's throwing away an easy win? He's not getting himself modkilled. He's just replacing. He's been extremely busy. It's the perfect WIFOM replace out. I would not of voted him for that alone but due to his other extremely out of character aggressive behavior, refusal to vote except to hammer VF and doing nothing but complain about how long the game is and how he doesn't want to read it or post any reads or do anything but complain about how long it is and be useless or make excuses, if he isn't scum, I don't know who is. I'll post some specific posts that show this.

He's gotta be scum.

[SilverWolf]

I've been thinking and got a theory.
What if the two missing kills are from immune-attacking eachothers? One kills, one hits immune. Repeated following night.

Let's say... A SK+GF setup. Would that mean that they know eachothers for having hit eachothers?
If that's the case, I'd like to engineer with current FoS and Scumreads to see informative counters and subtle omgus.

An unrelated theory that's sad, I think we lost all our PR.

And on an unrelated note, I'm kinda unmotivated and meh-ish. Betrayed by town, trolled by town, conned by town, and et cetera.

Do you mean that you think there's an SK immune player in this game still? Why would GF be immune?

[SilverWolf]

I think with only one kill the past two nights, that there was a missed kill for some reason both times considering there were 3 attempts N1.

[SilverWolf]

Do you mean that you think there's an SK immune player in this game still? Why would GF be immune?

With all these PR, I'm guessing he's vulnerable to investigation, and probably let his lackies attack for him.

After reviewing the setup of current dead players, I really fail to see that there's a vigilante.
If there's two mafia, that'd be too overpowered. Seeing the player interaction, I actually don't see two opposite team factions, so it should just be 1 organised faction.

So perhaps a 4-5M and 1NK versus town?

1NK? Do you mean SK? I still don't know how 3 kill attempts were managed N1 if we don't have a vig or another mafia faction? *scratches head*

The missed kills could be due to a BP with an X-shot modifier.

[SilverWolf]

I think with only one kill the past two nights, that there was a missed kill for some reason both times considering there were 3 attempts N1.

Damnit. I see it now, thanks. Well, my theory of GF+SK stands but there's a last Town PR by this information :

1. Three attacks.
2. Healed, two deaths.
3. Single attack two nights.
= Visited a visit-killer. That's possible, right?

Neither ABR, NJ, MB, etc, has been attacked and they're town. A Vigilante should have attacked. No one flipped that yet.

I agree if there was a vig, they should of acted N2 or N3. I'm not sure how to explain 3 attempts N1 and on 1 N2 and N3. My guess is BP is at play somehow.

[SilverWolf]

TSO reads like frustrated town to me. He worked a lot harder in 178 from what I saw. That said, his defensiveness and apathetic behavior is kind of annoying and I'd wagon him if it would get him to stop whining and start scumhunting.

Shinobi-no whining but very apathetic and won't agree to a read/vote/wagon whatever-I would wagon him as well if it would get him to commit to something for real.

[SilverWolf]

OK

VOTE: Nobody Special

Very under the radar and nitpicky about things that don't matter.

Be productive or be hanged<----------------------totally stole that line from House.

[SilverWolf]

Aero-Yes, Wake acts that way as scum and yes, I'd get behind a Marquis wagon but no one seemed interested when I tried to get one going and NS is acting scummy so moved to that wagon.

I'm also bored.

[SilverWolf]

OK

VOTE: Marquis

[SilverWolf]

i did look at pisskop's iso and i think it points to fa_q2 being scum both from his own and quoted content, though. if anyone wants to check up on that too that'd be fun we can talk about it together later

Can you please point out specific posts? I've gone through pisskop's ISO twice now and the only things I found noteable were him hard defending VF and NJ who were both town so if there is an association with FA that I missed, it would help if you point out where I should look.

[SilverWolf]

OK

VOTE: Marquis

Silver, this was a strange flip-flop. Why did you switch from NS to Marquis, seemingly after it was just lightly suggested to you?

3889

Start there.

[SilverWolf]

OK

VOTE: Marquis

Silver, this was a strange flip-flop. Why did you switch from NS to Marquis, seemingly after it was just lightly suggested to you?

3889

Start there.

Spoiler: What I don't get is:

How do you go from this level of conviction:

I completely disagree that Wake's replace out is town. Seriously, he was scummy as fuck before that and he could of just decided he needed to replace and did it in such a way so people would think it's townish.

I am not letting him off the hook when he's been obvscum the whole game and it looks like I'm going to have to case this latter when I have time.

Wake is scum. Marquis has done nothing to make me change my mind on that spot either.

To this level of, "Yeah sure, whatever.":

OK

VOTE: Nobody Special

Very under the radar and nitpicky about things that don't matter.

Be productive or be hanged<----------------------totally stole that line from House.

And then back to this, but this time almost naked:

OK

VOTE: Marquis

Over a span of 32 posts?

I've been scumreading Wake for quite awhile now due to his ooc behavior and play. As someone who knows him and have played with him, he was way off which I've explained. There's also a lot of everyone going their own way with not a lot of thought out reads or reasoning for votes like dragons vote on GM and GM's and Aero's votes on dragon. Everyone was too divided. Then NS asks these questions and casts these votes for the worst reasoning I've ever seen so I went there. I went back to Marquis again, when I realized NS might actually be town after re-ISOing for ~reasons~

That said, I just did see the post marquis put up on FA so now I have to look at that and those interactions and re-ISO FA again to see if he's got a good point there.

[SilverWolf]

You know elusive, you probably shouldn't make yourself green in those vc's because it's confusing because you are not flipped yet.

Also TSO, you said you wanted to kill NS today. I never did see you specify as to why yet?

GM-I fail to see what is scummy in those posts you quoted of elusives?

Still ISOing, etc. etc. but have been stressed out due to other issues so it may take awhile.

[SilverWolf]

LOL at the drunk vc

TSO-That is super suspicious because you picked up on something earlier in the game and pointed it out in the game and now you want that person dead?

WTF is up with that?

Do you not believe it now? Did you forget?

[SilverWolf]

OK, but not sure you need to claim yet FA.

[SilverWolf]

ISOing FA right now and pisskop again

FA's post looks a little AtEish

[SilverWolf]

Actually, I think scum would want to fake claim something at this point and not VT.

[SilverWolf]

Yes, and he's probably about the same me offsite-6 or 8 games.

I have more here onsite than him. I've got about 8 or 10 here and I think this is his first outside the newbie queue.

[SilverWolf]

Newbie games scum are far more likely to claim VT though.

[SilverWolf]

Actually, I think scum would want to fake claim something at this point and not VT.

Though it hurts my case I would say that is not the case.

To many PR have died - it is doubtful that there are many PR roles left if any. I have a rough idea what PR roles we have remaining and quite frnakly a PR claim would secure a scum read for me as there are virtually none left.

Well, what do you think of the fact elusive and NS have soft claimed roles? If you were paying attention, you'd know that happened. Do you believe them or not?

I question all claims at this point because of what's already happened in this game and scum can still try a PR claim and maybe get away with it.

That said, just based on VCA alone, elusive is likely town since Pisskop was voting her for 2 of those vc's on D1.

[SilverWolf]

Actually, Pisskop was on elusive 3 of those vc's D1:

Let's look at his votes:

T S O in RVS, later unvotes

Votes dragon 402, unvotes 770-this could be kind of a distancing thing if dragon was scum

Votes Kitz in 917 jumping on a Kitz wagon started by ABR, this leads me to believe Kitz town

Here he votes elusive 1025 on her scumreads of House, FA, and Wake-soft defending all 3 of them which is noteable and should be looked at as at least one or more could be scum in that group

Here joins the Klingon town wagon 1608 which I'd expect scum to do.

So based on this, and you guys can correct me if I'm wrong in this analysis:

-I think Kitz and elusive are more likely to be town because of pisskop voting for elusive all those vc cycles D1 and it doesn't seem like a good idea for scum to bus like that D1 of a Large Normal.

-He joined a wagon on Kitz while also joining one on town Klingoncelt later, leads me to believe Kitz is town-why join a wagon on your scumbuddy D1 and again, joining wagons on town is what scum likes to do.

-dragon vote and unvote could be distancing, I've mostly been townreading dragon but this is noteable at least

-when voting for elusive he soft defends the people she's scumreading by saying her reads are bad-FA, House, Wake-noteable for scum possibly being in this group, I've got a townread on House, scum on Wake and not sure on FA-could go either way, Ozgin I have less of a townread on then I did House but he's not really scummy, Marquis isn't scummy either which is causing me confusion on my Wake read because Wake was obvscum to me due to his play.

I don't even know what this tells us but maybe something?

[SilverWolf]

The only thing noteable about Kitz is the Klingon wagon popped up during and after the Kitz wagon and pisskop jumped off Kitz onto Klingon. This is the only thing undermining my townread of Kitz just a little bit. I don't know if there would be two big wagons on town D1 but it's possible and Kitz isn't really scummy to me.

dragon's wagon (hey that rhymes) was a counter to VF's which just so happened to be a town wagon. Would dragon's wagon also be on town? Would town be wagoned every single time on D1-meaning every town wagon is a counter to another town wagon? So this undermines my dragon townread a little bit and also because pisskop voted and unvoted him later and because he softly defended him as well

Not sure there's enough there to analyze but if all these people are town, that means town was being wagon and counterwagoned on two different occasions D1 and I don't even know how likely that is.

The other wagons are bunk because they all revolved around VF's claim and ABR's lying and NJ's acting scummy so meh.

[SilverWolf]

Actually I don't know if dragon was a counter to VF or VF was a counter to dragon because votes were being put on them both. Like VF would get some, dragon would get one, and that went back and forth for awhile so it was kind of like equal wagons and I have no idea what that means unless there was scum pushing one of them and pisskop never voted VF at all.

Also, NJ was a huge counter wagon to Klingon and they are both town.

That's another example of town being wagon and counter wagoned.

Why were we doing that so much?

I mean VF was scummy in the beginning before he claimed and NJ was scummy all game so maybe that's it.

I don't know.

[SilverWolf]

Cheetory-I put that up there looking for feedback and discussion. I did draw some conclusions with it but would like other's thoughts as well.

I'd like FA to respond to what is on this page-he doesn't get online until late and may not have seen it all yet.

@FA-Please give us your reads including your current scumreads.

[SilverWolf]

That's L-2-5 votes out of 7

[SilverWolf]

Keeping track of the vc before voting is kind of important with all the quick hammers going on in this game. Seems a weird thing to overlook.

I'm waiting for FA to respond.

[SilverWolf]

No one hammer until he responds please. His answers can be important for future analysis regardless of his flip.

Thanks

[SilverWolf]

Also, we still have 9 days so there is plenty of time yet here.

[SilverWolf]

Ozgin and Shinobi-thoughts?

[SilverWolf]

I'm trying to get discussion going but it seems between apathetic town/scum promoting apathy, that it really isn't going to happen.

I at least want FA to get a chance to speak again and get thoughts from the lurkers-Shinobi and Ozgin in particular.

We should at least give it another day.

This is critically important regardless of how FA flips.

[SilverWolf]

Wait until tomorrow Ozgin because he's on late and won't get a chance to speak until later. I can do it as well so no hurry.

[SilverWolf]

if it wasn't for the ambigious wake replacement also voting him.

Elaborating.

VOTE: tso

didn't finish reading

but i like this right now. a lot.

i have no more feelings

until i get another flip which will hopefully be my faq2 flip

which will in turn hopefully be a scumflip

that supertownifies me.

also i've been toying with the idea of tso!scum.

his treatment of the faq2 wagon and handling post-jump onto it kind of pings.

This guy.
He haven't read fully, positive of a scum FA, then jumps on TSO.

You read my mind.

[SilverWolf]

FA, still waiting on those reads/content/something at all.

I am waiting on this as well FA.

[SilverWolf]

Flubber isn't in this game FA-who are you talking about there?

[SilverWolf]

I agree with your scumread on GM and Wake/Marquis. dragon I am starting to see the case on as well only because his posing has changed dramatically but I doubt both he and GM are scum together. Kitz and elusive are townreads but I'd be willing to look harder at Kitz if needed. NS is town for now. Shinobi is a very hard read and null. I've been lightly townreading Aero but he's slacking big time and I could reconsider. Ozgin is a light townread due to House and other things. TSO and Cheetory-well I don't know if it's tvt or there is scum in one of them. I mean Cheetory puts up a good fight but backs down and gives up easily which is hard to believe that town would do if they think they have scum. T S O is defending himself well but he has to as either alignment-I've gotten frustrated town from him as well as defensive scum.

So yeah, I don't see too much that looks overly scummy from FA with his latest reads and it seems those pushing him gave up pretty fast as well.

So much apathy...............................

[SilverWolf]

I hate the site meta that townreads and therefore rewards people who lurk or play anti-town or talk about how lazy they are more than just once or twice. People who do this routinely should replace out, be lynched or vigged. No exceptions.

*frustrated rant due to.................things and not directed necessarily at any one in particular, just pent up vent*

[SilverWolf]

Wake is obvscum, but you're voting FaQ instead. That doesn't make sense to me.

Ummmm..........................No, I'm not? *scratches head*

[SilverWolf]

also why the fuck is everyone saying wake was obvscum

i can see it looking mildly scummy but overall a replacement is almost always null. just feels like people are trying to stack the wake accusations as something way more damning than they actually should be, like exaggerating how much you can get from a replace out

Because I know Wake and his behavior was out of character for him and his play was pretty scummy and reminded me of his scum game. He got angry/frustrated at me too easy at several points, refused to read or pay attention or post reads or vote plus the VF hammer was not like him at all.

The one thing that makes me doubt that read is that he didn't buddy me. He buddies me hardcore in games where he's scum. Like for real and he didn't here.

Marquis, You don't come off as overly scummy since you've replaced in so I'm questioning this now a little. I did get the feeling your switch off of your for sure FA read that was going to townify you to unvoting him so you can read, to going after TSO, to going back to FA as the right lynch, to now going to Aero is weird.

It gave me the feeling you were afraid FA was going to flip town and it would make you look scummy for pushing him but what really helps me townread someone is them being confident in a scumread and sticking with it with conviction unless you could of described what made FA town again and then made you go back there and now you are OMGUSing Aero because?

pedit: Hmmmm..........................your FA explanation seems like frustrated town maybe?

I don't even know any more. This game is driving me crazy. An FA flip would probably be more helpful in reading Marquis than not but is that enough? His reads looked townie, he did have those pisskop interactions.

Shit........................any other input besides those that have picked an FA or Marquis side here?

[SilverWolf]

with about 100 new post i think a vc is in order suggestion on what i should make it?

(im going to sleep first)

Nothing with yellow in it as yellow hurts my eyes on this forum.

[SilverWolf]

Cheetory-I don't understand why you are so frustrated and upset. I'm sorry but I really don't. This is weird.

[SilverWolf]

The one thing that makes me doubt that read is that he didn't buddy me. He buddies me hardcore in games where he's scum. Like for real and he didn't here.

Hm.
Hmm.
Mh?

This is your Obv-Meta?
1. What if he decided to change it?
2. Has he buddied you while the two of you were scum together?
3. Has he buddied you while you were scum?
4. Has there been instances where he did not buddy you like he should have?

Nope, this isn't my obv-meta. Just an observation. Of course he could of decided to change it. Wake and I have never been on the same scumteam together.

[SilverWolf]

Ozgin, I think your calculations might be off, not that I'm that good with math:

1st night there were 3 kill attempts and 2 kills including pisskop/scum-there has to be either a vig or SK or other mafia faction for pisskop to be killed, there also has to be another faction for the 2nd kill attempt. I'm going to assume with a vig, that they are not every night or they are X-shot if there is one. The thing that confused me is there has only been one NK per night the past 2 night so somehow, NK's are being blocked-they are either hitting a BP SK or a BP townie or a doc protect if we actually still have one of those.

So, let's just assume there is 2 kill possible a night and let's just assume 5 scum total including Pisskop. Now, if there was an SK or second faction the teams would be larger. There is no way there would be a 6 person scumteam in a game this size. If SK or multiball, we can go with 3 and 3. If SK and one team. We can say 5 and 1. I am going to assume with the lack of kills there is one team and a 3P for now. 4 scum left plus 3P/SK.

So we have 14 alive right now, worse case:

We mislynch and there are 2 kills and we are just crap down on our luck and town dies-11 alive tomorrow, 6 town, 4 scum, 1 3P

We mislynch again, good lord let's hope we don't but say we do, 2 kills and we have the worst luck ever and town dies, 8 alive-3 town, 4 scum, 1 3P-we are toast.

This all assumes the worst happens and we actually have an SK and multiball-just to be safe here, I'm assuming the worst.

We can mislynch once in the worst case scenario.

Check my math cuz I screw that up more often than not.

[SilverWolf]

We could have a vig, SK and scum team but then there'd only be one scumteam.

I am wondering how often an vig and a SK appear in a game together though?

[SilverWolf]

How certain of you of that Aero?

Sorry guys. I feel like shit and probably won't be posting much today or at all unless I start feeling better.

Back to bed.

[SilverWolf]

If I feel better I'll case Wake and FA and post it but my feverish mind and nauseated gut tells me it may not be today.

-Here's what I remember: Wake outed mathblade as a vengeful townie even though she was trying to make it look like she was BP who had to be lynched-she died that night as a vengeful townie, he refused to vote except to suddenly hammer VF out of nowhere, he complained about the length of the game and refused to read, got very angry with me for asking for reads and refused to do it saying it wouldn't be good enough and when I tried to calm him down, he called me scum. Marquis hasn't been scummy but the vote hoping and reasons is weird. Wake's replace out isn't really scummy either.

-FA has those pisskop associations and has been UTR most of the game until recently, recently he's looked fairly townie, his lynch would tell me a bit about Marquis and those opposing or pushing his lynch-that's about all I got on FA which isn't much-it's a compromise lynch

I am not interested in lynching anyone else today because we need a flip, they are both good lynches, and a NL would be worse than a mislynch.

If this doesn't make sense, blame the fever or me being tired and unable to sleep cuz I wanna puke, yeah staring at this screen doesn't help either.

[SilverWolf]

Reaching out to Ozgin and elusive-What do you think of either FA or Marquis? There isn't going to be a new wagon today unless something drastic happens and everyone else has made up their mind. I am willing to move my vote if I have to so I need to hear from you guys. Which one would you rather vote for today? That's all I need to know.

TIA

[SilverWolf]

We need a lynch/flip. This day is done.

Intent to hammer.

Any objections?

[SilverWolf]

VOTE: FA_Q2

Hammer time.

pedit: Full BP elusive?

[SilverWolf]

Never mind elusive-Do not answer that!!

[SilverWolf]

We need to WIFOM that shit elusive.

No one ask for clarification!!

[SilverWolf]

Fun when the day starts and the game were still locked for a while.

And there goes the Doc... Which is another PR, and he died without even telling if he did heal anyone.
Back to square one.
/TableFlip

With how the game turns out, I'm unfortunate to say I'm willing to look at the "Towny" players now. NS was being scummy, yet dies and flips Doc.
Those that are familiar with most of the players here are FoS', with meta and informative to their advantage.

Comments? SilverWolf, Aeronaut, Shinobi.
There's just no danger to these players.

First, What do you mean there is just no danger to these players? Explain that comment in detail please.

It's not uncommon for the doc not to reveal if they healed anyone or not. That info. isn't revealed until post game or if the doc claims for some reason. Doc's playing scummy is not unusual either.

What do you mean that those that have meta and are familiar with the players are FoS? Why is it suspicious to you that some of us are familiar with each other? I find that very odd.

If you are talking about NS, I've never played with NS before this game.

Comments? SilverWolf

NS could be scum but there are a couple posts which make me re-think that and I'm not going to speculate.

when I realized NS might actually be town after re-ISOing for ~reasons~

Well, what do you think of the fact elusive and NS have soft claimed roles?

Quick ISO with " NS" on the search. You crumbed him, and saw him out.

Gonna rush out for the doc now, seeya later.

Nice, How you call my comments out, have the time to post them here, and for some odd reason you left out everyone else's comments about NS. Huh, I find that real interesting. You are outright lying if you think I'm the one who crumbed and outed NS. You actually should of ISO'd NS and also GM, TSO, and elusive as well as me before posting this here.

Here's NS's posts outing himself or crumbing or whatever 2840, Here's TSO and GM talking about it right after that 2842, 2845, 2846, 2849, 2851, 2852, 2870, 2872, and 2873, 2883

If it becomes necessary, I'll continue because there's many more where this is discussed but I don't have the time for all that. You are an FoS to me now for your selective quoting and saying I outed NS though so there's that. Also, I'm not the least bit surprised that several others have been talking about this, this game because of all the fakeclaiming going on so I don't even find any of this suspicious.

[SilverWolf]

Quick ISO with " NS" on the search. You crumbed him, and saw him out.

So did myself and TSO.

I am starting to doubt the authenticity of the Serial Killer as well - one night of 3 kills out of 5 nights has me skeptical.

I agree. 1-Shot Vig maybe? But then what?

Or maybe we have some sort of blocking/protecting role that's getting very lucky.

Eh. probably no mileage in speculation anyway.

I should probably do some ISOs or something. There are still too many players in this game, I swear.

I doubt there's an SK in this game with only one kill per night the last 3 nights unless the doc has been doing a fantastic job of blocking every time. I'm pretty sure if there's a vig, it's one-shot and was used N1. I can't explain the 3 kill attempts N1. I have no idea.

I find trying to outguess the mod is a waste of time. I do it a lot but it never works so..........................No idea.

[SilverWolf]

Actually, you know what Kitz? You weren't even on my radar but you are now. I'm going to re-ISO you because you've been flying UTR most of the game for me.

[SilverWolf]

OMG I am sooooooo annoyed. I responded to everything in your wall Kitz and your last two posts and went to hit preview to see how it looked and my internet crashed and it is gone now.

Damn it!!

[SilverWolf]

Ummm dragon? GM is not the only one who picked up on that. Several of us did. How on Earth does that make her scum?

Kitz-I'll answer it later and yeah, I need to save things somewhere else before posting if they are long-have lots of quotes in them.

[SilverWolf]

Ummm dragon? GM is not the only one who picked up on that. Several of us did. How on Earth does that make her scum?

Kitz-I'll answer it later and yeah, I need to save things somewhere else before posting if they are long-have lots of quotes in them.

Well scum had to figure it out, so logically those announcing they knew it are scum candidates.

Gm can't help bragging about

GM is not bragging about anything. I really don't get why you keep saying that. GM noticed what TSO, elusive, and myself noticed and probably others that didn't say anything.

Your case on GM is shit and I don't like it. Give me a real case on why she is scum.

[SilverWolf]

Wake outed Mathblade as a Vengeful Townie in the thread. Even without that she was crumbing pretty hard.

Ellie claimed deputy so of course scum is going to go there.

Before that it was VF's cop business.

Then it was Boon-someone had to have picked up something from Boon because why would he be killed otherwise?

NS-who knows how long scum knew about it-for awhile or recently? I really can't speculate. It's WIFOM.

And considering all the fakeclaiming going on, discussing claims in the thread is to be expected.

In any case, I doubt you are going to convince me to vote for GM right now dragon. Your case looks fabricated and only makes you look worse.

[SilverWolf]

I want to spontaneously lynch Aeronaut I just do

Wut?

[SilverWolf]

Interesting how you suddenly unvoted GM after trying to lynch her for days dragon.

Did you sense resistance and give up? How much conviction did you have in the first place?

[SilverWolf]

Townpoints to gm for that, I guess.

Were the town points for noticing ns was the doc?

Wolf, when did you realize he was a doc?

Who else openly knew?

Back when he crumbed it and TSO and GM were talking about it.

I think elusive knew as well since she made a few comments about how that was a bad vote. Probably some other people I can't remember.

And your point is?

[SilverWolf]

OFF TOPIC

Aero-Check the PT or the Team Mafia thread and submit our game choices please.

They are waiting for us and a few others.

Get going team captain.

[SilverWolf]

ABR lied and said he investigated Shinobi as a cop N1 and got an innocent. Obviously, he wasn't the cop.

Then he said he tracked Shinobi to nowhere N1 and tracked mathblade to Ellie N2-basically the mathblade part was a lie so I don't trust him on the Shinobi part either.

I wish he would of told us the honest truth about who he tracked before he hammered himself.

[SilverWolf]

ABR lied and said he investigated Shinobi as a cop N1 and got an innocent. Obviously, he wasn't the cop.

Then he said he tracked Shinobi to nowhere N1 and tracked mathblade to Ellie N2-basically the mathblade part was a lie so I don't trust him on the Shinobi part either.

I wish he would of told us the honest truth about who he tracked before he hammered himself.

He told us about the bolded when he retracted cop and reclaimed tracker.

Though this is a fun way of trying to ignore in-game events.

Right and I never said otherwise. He lied so much I don't believe anything he said. If he would of said before he hammered-Hey guys, Here's who I really tracked N1 and N2 before hammering-I would of believed him. Things he said in the heat of the moment, while lying, I don't.

Even if he was telling the truth, that kind of result doesn't really mean much to me when there are likely multiple scum still alive.

Overall, it's null is what I'm saying.

[SilverWolf]

I'd still prefer to look elsewhere.

Why don't we look at some of the fa push? There has to be at least one scum there.

In one of my past games I was tracked to nowhere N1. Guess what? I was scum. I know right? Can you believe it?

Scum ended up winning that game so yeah, I'm not letting anyone off the hook or looking elsewhere only because of a went nowhere result.

[SilverWolf]

I don't see why looking elsewhere today is upsetting you guys so much. Especially since none of you are voting for him.

Who says we are upset? I don't want go nowhere results to discount anyone.

I've backed off of gm for the moment.

Because of the blowback you got for it today?