NY175: Sycamore Scuffle

[Aeronaut]

/Confirm

[Aeronaut]

Hello, everyone, and sorry I had to be prodded. Lots of stuff going on.

So I understand its like page 21, but I'll sort of introduce myself. I'm Aeronaut. This is my first non-newbie game, and I also haven't played in a few months so it's a little overwhelming with so many people, but I think it's going to work out fine.

That being said, it seems we have a bandwagon to deal with.

Interesting. NM's paranoia here raises him a bit into the Townie list.

VOTE: wake

RVS over. Serious vote.

Not much explanation for this vote. Seems a bit opportunistic.

Unvote: Not_Mafia

Vote: Wake88

What the fuck...?

Again, not explaining your vote. Communication is the key to this game.

Checking reactions.

Alright, if you guys run me up give me time to talk.

OK, let's get down to brass tacks. I voted NM because I wanted to pressure him for him maybe-slip. Because that's what ii is, a potential slip.

Of COURSE I'm going to

FoS

the other guy who's also voting you over the maybe-alt-slip. I

know

I'm Town, but I don't if he is, so I want a reaction, and I certainly have gotten some. And NM's faulty post about fluff was interesting, too, because methinks it's him just being cynical and/or paranoid, which makes me think that comes from a Townie mindset. What I did find a bit odd was his 55's last sentence, where he says I pretty much called everyone who didn't post "/confirm" Scum, which I didn't. Huh.

Then NM wonders why I find his post interesting, and that his paranoia raises him up a bit in my list. Which in itself is interesting. At least to me.

Salamence et al should explain themselves a bit more, too. I vote NM for what looks like a gaffe, and then FoS another guy doing the same thing, to gauge reactions. You can call that bad all you want, but you'd be incorrect. It's not hypocritical in the slightest if you're trying to Scumhunt.

Also, Salamence's 64 needs to be remembered. That he's seen other people called Scum for the maybe-slip NM did is immaterial, I'm not sure NM's Scum at this point, but I want to see more of his reactions regarding it. 65's crap, because it's an appeal to authority that has no weight to it. Farside I think he's paranoid because he's overreacting a bit in a paranoid fashion in regards to my post. That tells me he's maybe more likely Town than Scum.

Reinoe's vote is crappy, too. This is Day 1, folks. Day 1 is nothing

but

paranoia and speculation.

Step back and breathe a bit, mob.

Now add more reasoning for why you're voting the way you're all voting, and be

very

specific. I want more details just in case Town shoots itself in the foot.

This whole post seems pretty lax for someone a bit under the gun. However, he is still at L-6 I believe, so it's not that much pressure... yet.

While a few of those votes for Wake seemed a bit too quick, there were some that were explained and did make sense. He

did

contradict himself in post 50, with

Let's put some on this little nut for his maybe-slip: VOTE: Not-Mafia.

Now, Scarab, why exactly are you voting NM? He may be a nut, and an innocent one at that, so why be such a hardass on him? Probably capitalizing on the gaffe, eh? FoS: Scarab.

So that is also something.

My main point is, while he seems a little suspicious, I don't feel like I have enough information to give him a vote at the moment.

Will probably post more as I read up on more of the post, but that's it for now.

[Aeronaut]

Hey farside. Anything I do that looks scummy is a reaction test to generate discussion.

Hmm.... so you're telling us that every time you seem scummy, it's alright because you're just scumreading? Seems a bit shady.

[Aeronaut]

VOTE: Hunterseeker

Been waiting for him to make a post more than a sentence long, and that actually means something. Not really satisfied yet, so i'm cool with putting on some pressure.

[Aeronaut]

[quote="In post 587
It's a problem with my play. I always come off as scummy when I'm town. Even if I scumhunt to the max.[/quote]

Is this a serious post? Because saying you "come off as scummy even when [you're] town" seems like quite the coverup.

[Aeronaut]

Boon is obvtown, knock it off.

I'd like to know what exactly makes him obvtown to you.

If people don't agree with you then should can and will simply disregard your noise.

No one is above inquiry, and you'll not be shielding anyone from suspicion here.

I want to know exactly why you think he's obvtown when he isn't, and why you feel the need to try and put yourself between him and other players.

What has he done to be scum?

You will reply by saying active lurking.

I will counter by saying I would lurk actively if I suddenly saw 20 pages too.

You see though, if you are actively lurking, which means actively not contributing to finding scum, you would not be helping the town. If you aren't pro-town, you're anti-town. So that's why my vote is staying where it is

[Aeronaut]

I think adrien and Salamence are both a bit out of line, but at least Adrien is giving coherent thought. Salamence, you're not helping anyone by holding personal vendettas. Adrien is right in the fact that you've been calling whatever he says "fake" and then not explaining yourself. So maybe try to explain yourself better instead of screaming aimlessly and OMGUSing

[Aeronaut]

My thoughts on just a few people, partially because this is a phone post and partially because there are actually still people I didn't know were in the game. :/

Sal/Replacement - null leaning scum. Sal seems like someone who finally got a scum role and was defending it like crazy. He also was just sort of crazy though, so whatever. However, some of the replacement's posts(sorry, your name isn't on this page) seem sort of... off... I don't know. They're insightful, yes, but something strikes me off about them.

Adrien - null leaning town. Seems to be genuinely helping the town. It seems like someone who was scum wouldn't be trying so hard to scum hunt, however I feel like a scum could do that to try really hard to look town... Hmm.... Most of your logic makes sense to me at least though, so you're leaning town for me. Don't ruin it.

Clusk -

acting

quite scummy at the moment, however, I actually think it's more likely that he just got sick of this game and hasn't felt like coming back and reading this clusterfûçk. I'm not so sure he's actually scum, because I feel like scum might be a little more engaged than he is being. Seems like someone with a power role, but is just angry at the game to me.

Hunterseeker - Needs to post. Something. Anything.

Basically, considering changing my vote from Hunter to a Cluck, because I had originally voted Hunter because he wasn't helping town, so that made him anti-town. However, Clusk is now doing the same thing, but actively, and while already seeming a bit scummy in the first place. So Clusk strikes me as someone who is just trying to get through the night because he wante to use his role, whatever it is.

FOS: Clusk

[Aeronaut]

Hahaha, change "a cluck" to Clusk. Lol at autocorrect

Also meant to hold people's names. Sorry if that's annoying

[Aeronaut]

Not for being a PR, but for lurking quite a bit. And as Farside has pointed out, he's been doing it actively. I think he got some pressure on him, and then decided to leave the game for awhile so that he could make it to the night.

But that's just how he seems to me. Not quite sure about it yet, which is why I haven't switched my vote quite yet.

[Aeronaut]

I guess, But I don't see this a particularly more likely for PR's over other players.

Personally I would think if he was a PR he would be trying harder to not get lynched.

That's true, I guess. I think he needs to make a post, though.

[Aeronaut]

Can there be a vote count whenever you get the chance Toomai?

[Aeronaut]

Aeronat what is with the flip flip read on clusk
One point you think he maybe town but the say he is scummy.

Yea...

I think what I was trying to say is that I was unsure about Hunterseeker or Clusk. I made the post over the course of an hour or so (like I started typing, got up, and came back, did some more reading on the two of them, and then finished my analysis), so I guess my opinion sort of changed halfway through typing.

But basically I agree that it's strange that Clusk is in other games and ignoring ours, so he could be scummy because of that, but also on that point, he could just be really lazy town.

I'm sure both he and hunter will magically appear right before they get prodded though, so maybe we'll get something out of them then.

[Aeronaut]

VOTE: Clusk

That's a scum replace out

I want to see what the replacement has to say first, but yea, I sort of agree.

[Aeronaut]

unvote

, mainly because I've decided I agree with this.

I don't like the wagon. I don't want to waste our lynch on a lurker when we get way more valuable information from lynching a active.

Hunterseeker was my original vote because of the lurk, but honestly if hunter isn't going to speak up, there's no point keeping the pressure on him if there's scummier people to confront. For now, at least.


I'm waiting on giving a vote to Clusk, until his replacement can make a post. I'm already pretty sure of what's going to happen here, but Id like to be absolutely sure before I add to this wagon.

[Aeronaut]

I am scum with the clusk slot but want to give the slot a chance to dig out before I bus.

Nope, I'm perfectly alright with lynching him now, actually. I'm just not so quick to want to end the night like some other people.

[Aeronaut]

I can't figure out why. It's weird.

(It's because he's scum)

Can there be some evidence for this please? Just saying that someone is scum, believe it or not, doesn't make them scum. If you have questions you want me to answer, I'll give it a go.

@Alina, the reason I may seem sort of 'off' might be because this is only the second game I've ever played, so I'm not so used to the way you some of you speak. I more just say what's on my mind, but maybe I'm conveying it differently, idk really. I also don't tend to get as emotional as some of these people, so that could be it too. If you have questions or something you want me to answer to, I'm cool with anything.

[Aeronaut]

Vote: Clusk92

Reason: lets makes some flips happen

STAHPPP. Stop. Stop magically appearing before a prod and post something of substance you gobbler!

----

@Aegor yea, I want to lynch him too, but I feel like lynching a lurker at this point is much less beneficial than lynching someone who is much more likely scum. That being said, Clusk is indeed a lurker, but his slip ups and the timing of his replace-out show that signs point to scum... Or at least it seems that way to me.

@wake's wall post, I agree with most of what you said about Mir. As a few people said, you read Mirhawk as townish mostly, so there's not much to talk about. It's awesome that you spent that much time doing that though, and I'll definately refer back to it if I need to know something about Mirhawk

[Aeronaut]

Disclaimer: I am willing to join any wagon to lynch any of these three. I personally feel they are, among the 21, the ones most deserving of the vote. I feel that as a town we are miles away from a consensus, and we should be aiming towards that, rather than holding on to each personal reads only. I mean, 18 days left to lynch (I think), but we are all over the place on this one so far.

I'm on my phone, so I can't check on who's closer to the noose but don't be surprised if I start changing my votes yo the one that has more votes.

I don't know how I feel about this post, BP. I took out most of it because the first two paragraphs were fine, but here you talk about how you think we should just bus and come to a consensus as soon as possible? And that you'll vote for whoever is closer to the noose? That seems a little bit sketchy to me.

[Aeronaut]

Adrien continues his fake-sounding posting.

@Aegor yea, I want to lynch him too, but I feel like lynching a lurker at this point is much less beneficial than lynching someone who is much more likely scum. That being said, Clusk is indeed a lurker, but his slip ups and the timing of his replace-out show that signs point to scum... Or at least it seems that way to me.

Do you then not think that there is any case on Hunter beyond lurking? Why do you mention Clusk even though you are not even voting him? Why are you not voting anyone? Why is HS much less likely to be scum?

I will answer these one at a time.

Do you then not think that there is any case on Hunter beyond lurking?

I do not. I think Hunter is just somebody who grew very disinterested in this game, and posts every few days to avoid a prod. Also, as was seen in his #8, this was his first name out of newbieland. So, he probably saw the game size, got overwhelmed, and decided he couldn't keep up with it.

Why do you mention Clusk even though you are not even voting him? Why are you not voting anyone?

I've answered this question here. I'd quote it for you, but I'd probably mess it up.

Why is HS much less likely to be scum?

Well, I don't think HS is scum because of the reasons I posted to the first question, but why do I think Clusk is

more

scummy? Well Clusk gave a lot of actual posts with meaning in them near the beginning of the game, unlike HS. However, as soon as he got some pressure on him, he decided to lay low for awhile,

as scum tend to do.

Someone who was town would be more prone to defend his choices because if they are right, it would help the town, and in turn them. However, he just stopped talking completely, and when Farside finally called him on his shit,he immediately switched out of the game.

Does that not look scummy to you?

[Aeronaut]

Scarab, you're not making yourself look any better by overreacting to something that was barely an accusation. BP's just covering all the points. The fact that you felt the need to start making personal attacks on BP doesn't reflect well.

[Aeronaut]

I do not. I think Hunter is just somebody who grew very disinterested in this game, and posts every few days to avoid a prod. Also, as was seen in his #8, this was his first name out of newbieland. So, he probably saw the game size, got overwhelmed, and decided he couldn't keep up with it.

Why is that more likely than scummy lurking? What posts suggest your theory instead of scum?

I've answered this question here. I'd quote it for you, but I'd probably mess it up.

That in no way answered my question. You have not explained satisfactorily why you are not joining the Clusk wagon, which is still far from lynch and therefore entails no real risk. You did not respond to others' questions about it (from Cabd, IIRC?). You also have not explained why you are not voting someone else in the meantime.

Vote someone in your next post. I cannot have players totally disengaged and waiting for a wagon to hop on when it is near lynch.

Well, I don't think HS is scum because of the reasons I posted to the first question, but why do I think Clusk is

more

scummy? Well Clusk gave a lot of actual posts with meaning in them near the beginning of the game, unlike HS. However, as soon as he got some pressure on him, he decided to lay low for awhile,

as scum tend to do.

Someone who was town would be more prone to defend his choices because if they are right, it would help the town, and in turn them.

Unless they get lynched anyway, but sure.

However, he just stopped talking completely, and when Farside finally called him on his shit,he immediately switched out of the game.

Does that not look scummy to you?

It does not look that much scummier than HS to me, no.

Alright, guess I'm not being clear enough. I haven't voted for anyone. Correct. Now the question is, why haven't I voted for Clusk or HS? I've explained my reasoning for both, but I'll spell it out simple so everyone understands.

1. HS looks like a stupid or disinterested town at this point. Why waste a vote on him?

2. For Clusk, I was going to wait for his replacement to say something, instead of jumping on a wagon that I think formed way too quickly.

3. There's 18 fucking days left in D1. And you're yelling at me for going to slowly? I'm sorry that I'm not ending the day fast enough for you to make your nightkills.

Scarab, you're not making yourself look any better by overreacting to something that was barely an accusation. BP's just covering all the points. The fact that you felt the need to start making personal attacks on BP doesn't reflect well.

This is garbage. Way to suggest that

yet another

player is scummy while doing jack to push anyone or -- God forbid -- vote someone. What was the point of this post? What did it accomplish? What were your goals?

By "yet another player", do you mean "a third player"? I'm scum hunting. I'm making sure of who I want to lynch before I tag along the wagon, because I'm honestly not sure who needs to get lynched. You, and your scum buddy there, on the other and, seem to be

quite

sure of yourselves.




For now, I will vote. This vote is subject to change, especially when/if Clusk's replacement makes a post. Basically, not voting hunter because I'm convinced he's just an idiot, but nothing more.

VOTE: Clusk

[Aeronaut]

Also, about Scarab. Maybe he didn't quite overreact, but it seemed like a lot of extra back and forth for no real reason. It just seemed strange to me at the time. It still sort of does, I don't know, just seems sort of too much. BP just sort of mentioned him at the end. Maybe just me though.

[Aeronaut]

Also, about Scarab. Maybe he didn't quite overreact, but it seemed like a lot of extra back and forth for no real reason. It just seemed strange to me at the time. It still sort of does, I don't know, just seems sort of too much. BP just sort of mentioned him at the end. Maybe just me though.

So do you have any reads on BP or Scarab, or is the interaction itself null to you?

The only read I got out of it was that Scarab was being jumpy. Interpret that as you see fit

[Aeronaut]

Just so everyone is aware, Clusk is at L-2 and Hunter is at L-3. It's a close one.

[Aeronaut]

Alright, correction, Clusk L-1 now. HS still at L-3

[Aeronaut]

I don't think a replacement will come, honestly. As much as I'd like there to be one, people aren't stupid. Would you replace into this position?

[Aeronaut]

It's a rough situation, definitely.

[Aeronaut]

It's null because replacements don't know the alignment until once they're in already.

[Aeronaut]

Cya later, Cluskbucket.

[Aeronaut]

Imagine if there was just one villager, and everyone else was scum?

It wouldn't be allowed, but it'd be pretty hilarious

[Aeronaut]

And by everyone else being scum I mean seperate factions. >>

[Aeronaut]

Imagine if there was just one villager, and everyone else was scum?

It wouldn't be allowed, but it'd be pretty hilarious

Then who would be scum really? O_o

It's getting philosophical...

[Aeronaut]

Welp, here we go. Hope we all survive through the night! :3 (Except the scum. They can die.)

Since I already claimed, I guess I can guarantee that I will still be around. It's the next night phase I'm worried about.

When did you claim?

[Aeronaut]

Aaaand just like that, Hunterseeker has doubled his post count.

[Aeronaut]

@Aeronaut why did you provide reads on this set of people in particular?

Those people were the people who we were talking about at the time, and I had some limited posting time, so I figured it's better to give a read on them than nobody at all.

I also am unsure about a lot of my reads thus far. [The last game I played](http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=31336), I gave some really bad reads, so I'm trying to be more sure of myself this time around.

Aeronaut's over-defense of a non-case is noted.

Ehh, I wouldn't say it's a non-case. Someone called me out as scum and didn't explain themselves, so I wanted an answer.


---------------------

I haven't looked back at the ISO's of the deceased yet, but will do after this post. My only thoughts are that I originally had Adrien in my town pile, but the more he posts, the scummier he looks. It bothers me that SKOT wasn't killed after his supposed claim as tracker either. Hmm....

Hunter, welcome to the game. Please stop lurking and give us actual thoughts.

P-Edit= Woaaaaah everyone. So many votes. I honestly am not sure about voting for HS yet. While he's an idiot and is not helping the town in any way, I feel like scum would be playing smarter, don't you? I'd rather take out a goon tonight than another fucking policy lynch.

[Aeronaut]

You are absolutely doing number 3. If you can't play the fucking game then don't play the fucking game. I am not appealing to emotion, I am stating fact. And you will not be allowed to live until end game because you are just a troll or scum.

You are not stating a fact IF you are unclear. You are making a comment IN GAME and IN CHARACTER, for all i know, Yes, you may be very well be town and are genuinely concerned because we are one blue down on D2 with who knows how many ML to go, but you could also still be mafia and forcing a reaction to appear town when and if i do flip blue and this is ATE.

Fuck this.
Adrien can wait (and it pains me to say that because I have been waiting all night to push his lynch). This guy can't be town. He's trying to plant seeds of linkage.

So be it. If you are town and actually think this is optimal.

Hey bud , how about instead of only talking to one person you give us your reads on the rest of the game.

---

Also, I'd like to remind everyone that this comment

Adrien is THE lynch today. I will fight tooth and nail for this. So, please, just sheep me now.

and this comment

Fuck this.
Adrien can wait (and it pains me to say that because I have been waiting all night to push his lynch). This guy can't be town. He's trying to plant seeds of linkage.


VOTE: Hunterseeker

were made one page away from eachother. Sure, fighting tooth and nail for Adrien, until a better wagon comes along.

[Aeronaut]

Those people were the people who we were talking about at the time, and I had some limited posting time, so I figured it's better to give a read on them than nobody at all.

If I recall, Salamance/Adrien weren't being discussed as serious lynch candidates. Sure they had their argument but I don't think anyone latched on to that. It seems odd you would provide reads on them alongside HS and Clusk.

P-edit: HS has pissed me off, Adrien is still my lynch of choice but I can't deny how blatant HS is being and he will just be a distraction. Seriously, he tried to make an argument about bussing Adrien and then being a scum-partner with me. What town motivation would he have for doing that? Now do you want to passive aggressively call me scum or actually do it? Hint: the former is a scum-trait.

Yea, but I think they'd just had they're Caps Lock war, so that's why I included them.


I legitimately don't know if you're scum. Most of that post was just me clarifying some of my choices, but the last comment struck me as odd. That's why I felt the need to share it. You're still null to me. It all changes with time, though.

[Aeronaut]

As far as HS goes, yea, he's a distraction. I just feel like if we mislynch, then he's become the

ultimate distraction.

[Aeronaut]

and sorry,

unvote

not going to jump on wagon pushed by someone pushing such BS.

Oh hey Skot. Did you, the Tracker learn anything useful last night?

[Aeronaut]

So SKOT moves off the wagon in 1007, and Aeronaut calls him the Tracker in 1009. Did SKOT say he was the Tracker earlier, or is this news? If so, why the hell would Aeronaut out a PR?

He claimed tracker very early on, sorry I should have clarified. I'd find it for you, but I'm phone post ATM unfortunately.

As for the rest of that, I guess I'll be the first to answer your questions. For one, I don't actually see your posts as forced, per say. There are plenty of people who seemed more strained than you. However, I tend to have trouble seeing stuff like that sometimes, so I'm not entirely sure.

I don't entirely believe your first post was for reactions. I think you decided to ya this particular game with that persona, and then these people called you on it. So, naturally, you hid behind the cover of "it was for reactions." The rest of your posts seem alright to me though, so you're null to me. Leaning slightly town, because you've made logical sense as of late.

Alina seems extremely town to me. It might be worth it to meta her at some point, to see how she acts in scum games vs town games. It also is a little bit bothersome that none of the scum thought to kill her. That might mean something.

Could the setup be 2 scum groups of 3, and then two Vigs for the town? I dunno, it's sort of hard to tell at this point.

[Aeronaut]

Right.

Why did SKOT claim?

Nobody knows. Or at least I have no clue

[Aeronaut]

Were there any other claims besides SKOT Day 1?

Adrien claimed commuter.

[Aeronaut]

Aeronaut, you're online. Where are you?

I'm on a subway at the moment. When I get home I'll go through everything and answer. I've just been checking in

[Aeronaut]

Anyone else want to chime in on the Adrein/Commuter claim?

Many PR's are hard to verify. Neither outed PR got killed. I think there's nothing that can be done about it for the time being.

But onto more important matters...

Why do you think about HunterSeeker explicitly stating that he knows there's 5 mafia? People are saying that he's just trolling but taking yesterday and today into account I think his behavior is scummy.

HELP! MAFIA is voting me

And this town is doomed. we are 14 blues against 5 mafs.

He doesn't say 5 scum. He says 5 mafs.

/confirm for 1st game outside newbie town. Is there a setup/role list and/or do we know the town/scum ratio?

This is HunterSeeker's very first post in the game. It includes setup speculation.

I know I'm not the only person who realized his play this game is different from his play in his first newbie game.

Can we get lynch HunterSeeker now please?

That is pretty sketchy. I guess he's a good option I think, but I don't know.. It just seems too obvious. I didn't like being wrong about Clusk, and if we have too many more mislynches we're going to be in some serious shit.

[Aeronaut]

As far as HS goes, yea, he's a distraction. I just feel like if we mislynch, then he's become the

ultimate distraction.

While I

sort of

agree with this statement, it has the feel of "He's too scummy to be scum" or "She's too townie to be town"....It's a completely speculative argument, with no good conclusion.

I actually do agree with this. I want to sort of look at Farside's death some more though. Cabd was pretty obviously town, so I guess that makes sense, but I feel like Farside was a bit quieter and on more people's Null lists than anything. Why kill Farside, someone who's more ambiguous, over someone like Alina who everyone seems to have on their town list?

I'm going to read Farside's ISO a bit more, because I'm curious about his reads and what he may have said to end up dead.

TL;DR:

I'm hesitant to join the wagon for sure because I want to see about why Farside died first.

[Aeronaut]

Alright Wake, with your extensive 'scumreading' for four pages,

what are your scum reads?

Give us a list. If you need to, explain it. Four sentences or less.

[Aeronaut]

Giving Scumreads for 20 other players is impossible to do in four sentences, unlike explaining what makes one feel Adrien is Scummy.

Apples and oranges.

Alright, then just your reads then. We don't need all eighteen people. Just your top, say, 3-5

[Aeronaut]

@Alina

About you not dying, I'm just saying that you seem to be an active, very pro-town individual, at least to me anyway. To a lot of people in the game. So why would scum keep you around and out someone like Farside, who could potentially be more likely to be lynched?

And It doesn't nesessarily mean anything about your alignment, I'm just trying to use the deaths to gather as much information as possible before the sun sets again.

Oh, and don't take it like I want you to die, you're quite fun and delightful to play with.



Carry on.

[Aeronaut]

HS is at L-4, everyone.

Just so everyone is aware.

[Aeronaut]

We also have two weeks to make this decision. Not that I want to wait that long, but we can at least evaluate some more before making dumb decisions.

Not that HS is a dumb decision. There's other decisions we could maybe mull over as well.

Adrien

, where've you been? What's your take on the day's drama?

[Aeronaut]

I'm going to be honest, here. Hunterseeker is probably the most annoying person I've played with. He's lurking, he's using the terms from friggin Epicmafia, he's distracting us and not helping us at all.

I hate him.

That being said, we

need

to make the right move. Say that we mislynch. Say we have an SK. That's three potential villagers we lose tonight. It's going to go downhill fast if we jump to conclusions. By only focusing on HS, we're totally overlooking the other 17 people in this game.

I'm not against lynching him. I'm against lynching him

too quickly.

[Aeronaut]

Alright. So I've been looking through Farside's ISO, and found something sort of interesting.

Last minute thoughts.

Hs needs to post.
Bp still bugs me.
Damon should also be looked into.

This was a post on page 38, the last words of our fallen Farside. I find it interesting that BP and Damon have remained pretty quiet as of late, and are both on Farsides list of people to look at.

Maybe he was getting too close to being right?

[Aeronaut]

Aeronaut, do you discount the notion that there's possibly an Odd-Night Vigilante?

Actually, yea I had forgotten about the odd/even thing. I sure hope there is still a smart vig out there, because this town needs it.

[Aeronaut]

This game is crazy, that much is for certain. Seems like almost everyone hates everyone else. Thank god we aren't playing in real life or some people might actually die.

Nah, I had an awful newbie game once. Much worse than this one.

And much less interesting.


P-EDIT = Wake, man, I really don't know. There could be, definitely. I certainly hope so, so that they can just kill each other.

[Aeronaut]

Wake, what do you make of Damon? Just curious about this.

I've been reading his ISO (It's not long really) and It seems off to me. Very... self aware. He also seems to be buddying with you a bit. I dunno.

[Aeronaut]

Also everyone else can give their opinions too, not really sure why I just asked only Wake.

[Aeronaut]

Wake, what do you make of Damon? Just curious about this.

I've been reading his ISO (It's not long really) and It seems off to me. Very... self aware. He also seems to be buddying with you a bit. I dunno.

He's like my third nipple. There but barely noticeable.

So what's your aim here, Aeronaut? You trying to make me suspect you even more with your lackluster attempt to drive a lynch on Damon_Gant?

You suspect everyone.

My aim is to ask your opinion on someone who I think is shady. I'm trying to get as much information on these people as possible before the night comes, because I could be dead come Day 3.

[Aeronaut]

Lol, I told you guys boon was scum. Spamming the pages with nonsense to derail discussion. Also, I don't think he would be NK till N3, because we lost our even-night vig.
VOTE: Boonskies

I'd like a full reads list from you

As of now
Scummy:
SKOT, Wake, Boon, HS, BP. Aeronaut a little.

On the fence:
Adrien C, Reinoe, Burning_Town, Mirhawk, Scarab, Not_Mafia, Aegor

Townie:
Alina, Juls, Damon, Shaddow

You want to explain some of these? Like, how does damon seem town to you when he's barely posted?

[Aeronaut]

@Aboona

Get a room

If hunter isn't happening then I am voting Adri

E

n but I'm not ready to give up on hunter yet. Being a troll does not get you a pass. Especially when he's from epic mafia. That wifom is not town. The wagon grew quickly because he is legitimately scummy. How long of a pass do we give him? What if we mislynch a town anyway? Then we still have to deal with him later. I don't think it's a mislynch but if it is it would be better to do it now before we are really in the weeds.

P-edit: yes. That is what I was trying to explain. His trolling is not town no matter which way it is sliced (I.e, town wouldn't submit that wifom)

Is there anyone else here from EpicMafia that can confirm this? Not that I don't trust you Juls, (I don't trust anybody), but I'd like to hear more about that pro of lynching Hunter.

For now, however, my vote remains off him. I wish Damon would post something, but the longer he stays silent the scummier he gets. It doesn't sit well with me, so I took a look at his ISO.

It's basically just him being way too self aware, and complaining about how fast the game is going. I also came across this.

I've had a very busy week until now. Starting from tomorrow I have 4 consecutive days off and therefore my excuses are running out in this game!

Where's those 4 consecutive days, bro? Yea, you're right, your excuses

are

running out. Post something useful, or get lynched.

VOTE: Damon_Gant

[Aeronaut]

I'm not comfortable with Mirhawk's lack of presence so far. I will analyze him first.

Haven't you analyzed him already?

[Aeronaut]

So,

Damon_Gant

is L-6,

Boonskies

is L-8,

Broodking

and

Adrien

are at L-9, and

Hunter

is at L-5

Nobody else is L-anything, so I think I'll give a bit of an analysis on these five people.

HunterSeeker:

Still feeling like he's a VI. He should post more. I feel like we were about to lynch him for the same reasons we lynched Clusk, and we know how that turned out. I think the town needs to get it right tonight, so we can get a little wiggle room. That being said, if we mislynch again, I'd be all for putting HS on the chopping block, and maybe going through with it. If what Juls and Not_Mafia are right about him and how a scum acts over at EpicMafia, then he could indeed be scum, or a SK or something. However, for now, He's just on my Idiot radar. Beep Beep!

BoonSkies:

I really, really he hadn't spent seven posts spamming up the game with that fight. However, his gameplay

right now

isn't screaming scum to me. It seems like he is legitimately scum hunting, just in a very destructive way. I feel like someone who was scum would be a bit less in the spotlight, but I guess everyone has a different playstyle. He's null, with a slight lean towards town at the moment.

Broodking:

Has been a little lurkey but has posted a lot recently. I don't know why, but your posts just seem very... off to me. They seem a bit forced, but that could be only me. You also seem so sure of yourself that Boon is scummy and Damon is townie. And we're supposed to just take your word for it from "another game"? Link. The. Game. Null, leaning scum.

Adrien:

Adrien, you want to know how your posts feel "forced". First of all, I wouldn't call them "fake", but forced. And the answer to that is that it's hard to find a real instance of that, as it's in your style of writing, not the information you've given us. So yea, you come off a bit forced, or

manufactured.

It's freaking some people out. I however, don't think it's as scummy as some of these other people. You're mostly Null for me.

Damon_Gant:

Hasn't posted anything in like a week. Has posted anything

useful

ever. Yes, he's pretended to be useful, with cheesy self aware posts that just raise more questions than answers. His posts sound much more manufactured than Adrien's, which is why my vote is instead on Damon. Damon is anti-town, and is seeming scummy in the process, especially since he's apparently been looking at the thread and not posting. Floater, GRAB A LIFE VEST!

[Aeronaut]

Readup on Aero
He softdefends HS a few times, and also makes note of lynching him on a later day instead of today. If HS flipped scum I would probably look here first.
Established a position where he can jump onto any of the five wagons without too much trouble. Boon would be the hardest, but seeing as how he called him destructive in the same post that he cleared him I could see it.

Would you call boon

not

destructive? Just because he's being destructive doesn't mean he's necessarily scum.

Repeatedly advocates caution in not lyching a lurker too quickly (ie Hunterseeker), then jumps hard on DG for lurking.

Nope. Not what I said at all, actually, great reading. Yes, it's true that Hunter and DG are both lurking hardcore right now. However, I said that the reason my suspicions are on DB is because he was one of Farside's two reads, and that I really, really don't like the wording on his posts. They're shallow, non informative, and extremely manufactured. So yea, that looks a bit scummy to me.

Overall I don't get the impression that he's looking too hard for scum, more that he's commenting on other people's scumreads.

Pot. Kettle. Black. Until this post Mirhawk, I actually sort of forgot you were in the game. You should post more.

Aero

-Made a vote in either in response to pressure or to follow Cabd's insistence on a quicklynch. Looks funny in relation to the rest of the post in which he expounds on not quicklynching.

No, I withheld my vote for a pretty long time, actually. After Clusk switched out, he was looking pretty scummy, but at that point I still wasn't sure, which i shouldn't have been sure because obviously we were wrong. So no, I didn't just slap down Clusk's name right away like the rest of you people. I thought about it, and I ultimately decided he was the most scummy at the time.

-------

-Aero continues to tacitly defend HS while saying he's a viable lynch.

The point of Mafia is the lynch the person who is the

scummiest

. So yes, while I feel like HS may be scummy, there are people who are scummier, in my opinion.

Boonskiies may or may not be infuriating, but he doesn't strike me as scum.

Yea, but his most recent few posts kind of rub me the wrong way.

[Aeronaut]

he gives Aero a hard time about not joining the Clusk wagon

I gave Aero a hard time about just fueling the fire from a distance. He was withholding his votes for no good reason. That is scummy, and exactly what scum often do: push for mislynches while staying at a distance from them.

Hmm.... I don't know about that. After all, I may have been a part of that mislynch, but I wasn't the one who hammered Clusk without any explanation

(link fixed by Toomai)

So you're telling me that it's scummier for me to hold back my vote and gather reactions, than it is for people like you to jump on the wagon as quick as possible? Are we in backwards-world? Do you really think I would have taken so long to vote for Clusk if I wanted a quick lynch? Especially If I knew for a fact he was town already, I'd have to be an idiot to even plant the seeds of disillusion with the rest of these people.

So, Aegor, I have a question for you. Why were you so quick to lynch Clusk? Why did he seem scummy to you? Link me to an earlier post if you need to, but I'm curious what was so scummy about him. I know why I thought he was scum, but why did you, Aegor?

[Aeronaut]

Hmm.... I don't know about that. After all, I may have been a part of that mislynch, but [I wasn't the one who hammered Clusk without any explanation]

Shite, meant to quote this post in the parenthesis. Mod If you have time could you fix that? It's alright if that's going to be too annoying

Eh well it's at the end of a page where the correction isn't simultaneously visible so alright.

[Aeronaut]

Also I don't think your final vote on the Clusk wagon is what Agor was talking about.

I can't speak for anyone else but I find that you seem to tacitly agree with a lot of other players opinions without actually committing to them. And I don't mean commitment as in voting for anyone, I mean commitment as in calling people scum.

Sure I agree with some of the opinions of the people in the town. That's the job of the town, no? To agree on one person and lynch them. And as far as commitment, I don't really like the thought of setting my sight on one person and only one person, or saying that "for sure" somebody is scum. I don't say anyone is scum for sure out loud here, because I don't do so in my own thoughts. Not including all possible options or scenarios creates tunnel vision, and tunnel vision is bad. Basically, If I were to look at a person's posts after I've marked them as Scum in my own mind, chances are I'm going to read that person's post with that Bias.

Look at Aegor for example. He's been stuck on lynching Hunterseeker since D1. Tunnel Vision.

[Aeronaut]

So, Aegor, I have a question for you. Why were you so quick to lynch Clusk? Why did he seem scummy to you? Link me to an earlier post if you need to, but I'm curious what was so scummy about him. I know why I thought he was scum, but why did you, Aegor?

I was fine with the lynch, and he was getting replaced or whatever. The wagon was already huge, and the day was IMO stalling. I wanted a flip.

It just seemed shady to me how quickly you (and in your defense, other people) jumped on that wagon.

As for "stalling my vote", I stopped doing it since about ten pages or so ago. I want DG to join the conversation, so he's my vote. I don't want a mislynch today.

[Aeronaut]

Vote HS. GOGOGOGOGOGOGO

Aegor, you seem pretty quick to want to lynch HS. Do you know something about him that you'd like to share with the rest of us?

[Aeronaut]

@Aero
Do you think Aegor is scum?

Well, most of what he's done seems pretty normal, except for the crazy push on HS. All he wants to do is get to N2. He's pushing a wagon insanely hard that doesn't need to be pushed.

So yea, he's in my scum pile. He's not the top of the list, but he's looking scummier to me for every post he makes.

[Aeronaut]

@Mirhawk:

What are your thoughts on Aegor? Do you think his quicklynch was warranted?

[Aeronaut]

Oh, and

@Aegor:

I believe your read on Mirhawk is town/null. What has he done to earn that read? Has he done anything, anything at all, that seems Scummy to you?

[Aeronaut]

Aegor strikes me as relatively town. The naked votes are a thing I suppose, but I think that's just a part of his playstyle.

Why is it suddenly Aegor's quicklynch. That lynch belonged to Cabd, he called for it and half the town went along with it.

Whoops, I dun confused myself. I meant his wanting to quicklynch HS for D2. Sort of mixed up what I was saying, sorry it's late

[Aeronaut]

Eh. Aegor's pushing for it yes but probably less then some of the other people who voted HS today.

I would call Juls the driving force, and it's not like Aegor is more guilty of wanting HS lyched then the other eight people who were on his wagon when he was at L-1.

Why are you still voting Damon Gant? Do you believe he is lurking without picking up his day two start.

Thats a good point.... I still think the slot may be scum and he may just be flaking out, but you're right it's starting to make less sense.

I'll probably reevaluate that in the morning.

[Aeronaut]

So Mirhawk, you're saying that out of all these people, I am the one who is scummiest to you? So far, all you've got me on is "withholding my vote". Think of something more solid than that.

Inb4

Aegor follows right behind that vote like cattle.

------

In other news, I'm going to UNVOTE: , because Damon clearly is not actively lurking, just not coming online at all. If a replacement comes and we still haven't lynched anybody yet, then we'll see I guess. For now, I'm off that vote.

AdrienC has started to peak my interests a little bit more. He's become a little quiet as of late, and I'm starting to suspect his Role-Claim for "Town-Aligned Commuter" was false. First of all, I don't understand why someone would claim that role D1 at all. Adrien claims that it was because Salamence had "pressured" him into claiming, but Adrien was at L-11 at the time and had no need to be worried. That doesn't make sense to me.

So why claim? First of all, doesn't that hurt the town quite a bit? Scum could have been wasting their kills on you, and we could have higher numbers right now. We've lost that advantage now, because the scum, if they believe you, know now.

So

Adrien

, explain the reasoning behind that a little bit more?

[Aeronaut]

How are my reasonings fluffy, boon?

@Mirhawk: Nope, I openly called him scum. I shouldn't have to spell it out for you people. And Yea, we do have to be fucking careful with who we lynch, because shits gonna hit the fan pretty fast if we policy lynch our way through this game. I asked you and Aegor questions, because I didn't like how easily you two were buddying each other. And you both game the same generic answer. So yea, I found out some information from that. It doesn't mean you're scum, and it doesn't mean I should let you know every thought that goes through my head.

[Aeronaut]

@Toomai: Legitimately sorry if I broke a rule in that post, I just completely forgot about.

[Aeronaut]

A color coded list of my reads as of this morning. It's pretty self explanatory, but if you can't figure it out, Adrien and Aegor are my top scumreads at the moment. Adrien for what I mentioned here, and Aegor because of his constant pushing of PLing instead of actual scumhunting.

TheAdrienC
Aegor

Damon_Gant

HunterSeeker

Scarab
Wake88
Boonskiies
BroodKingEXE

Juls
Mirhawk
SKOT

Burning_TowN

shaddowez

reinoe
Not_Mafia

I still don't like Adrien's claim, it makes zero sense to me. Explain it Adrien. That on top of some real manufactured posts, make you lynchable in my eyes.

VOTE: TheAdrienC

[Aeronaut]

@Aeronaut

Uh...where am I? I don't see myself. >_>

Oh, whoops. You're in between Brood and Juls.

Going to read Hunter's game after posting this

[Aeronaut]

Everyone read this post

And I just read a game that he was in just 5 hours ago in which he was mafia. Most games start with night on epic mafia. There was a gunsmith who gave a gun to HS. The first thing he did was come in and say "JJ hook holland he is the cop". Neither JJ or holland was mafia and he shot the real cop (basically sacrificing himself) but he put the wifom out there. In the graveyard after he was lynched, he said "how was my wifom". He literally does this. Go see for yourself. This is a scum tactic on epic mafia!

VOTE: Hunterseeker

So I looked through the games he's played. He's only finished one ever, and in that one he was a Vanilla Kitten. He's in a second newbie game now which just started, and this game. Am I looking in the wrong place?

[Aeronaut]

@Adrien

Why did you ignore my question?

Seriously. I wish we could just DK HS, get him out of the freaking way, and then lynch Adrien at this point.

Then why haven't you voted for him then?

@Aegor
I'm comfortable where I am.
If HS flipped scum I would be certain Aero was scum. But if he flipped town that would only downgrade Aero to probably scum.

Oh, gee wiz, only probably scum? Yay!

And how come it's only me who's scum if HS flips? Why not Alina or Burning_Town or BP? None of them want to lynch Hunterseeker today yet I seem to be the only one who's guilty. Interesting.

[Aeronaut]

@Aero
Interesting? What's that supposed to mean? Because it looks like you're trying to imply I'm scum without outright calling me scum.

Nope. I find it interesting. Not everything I say implies anything. And if you cared enough to read my posts instead of skimming them and then giving fluffy reasoning, you'd see that you're in my null, leaning town list. If I thought you were scum, I'd say it. Thank you for your paranoia, though.

[Aeronaut]

I also want you to answer my question, please, and don't divert it this time.

[Aeronaut]

@Aero

Why do I need to answer the question? You yourself just admitted that you don't find me scummy and the question itself isn't important.

It's an important question because it invalidates your claim entirely. I'll post it again so that you can answer it properly.

And how come it's only me who's scum if HS flips? Why not Alina or Burning_Town or BP? None of them want to lynch Hunterseeker today yet I seem to be the only one who's guilty to you. Interesting.

[Aeronaut]

Oh he was in the game the whole time

I don't remember what he's done

I came in late/had to be prodded. My bad, just had some life stuff and should have been V/LA

[Aeronaut]

I don't find either Alina or BT scummy, therefore I don't find their distancing from HS suspicious. Or at least not nearly as suspicious as yours.

So you find me scummy because you find me scummy? Seems legit.

-----------------------

I'm done being distracted, now. Adrien, I still don't fully trust what your saying to me about the roleclaim, and it still seems off to me. Hoping someone replaces into the Hunter slot, because then we might get some more information to work off of. Oh, and Scarab's replacing? We're all going to be replaced at this rate.

[Aeronaut]

Because frankly their pushes on each other sound halfhearted for two people vehemently angry at each other

I don't know about that, but I've been wondering about SKOT's claim as tracker. As with Adrien, I feel like it was unprovoked and didn't make much sense. I dunno, I have to look at it more.

[Aeronaut]

Unfortunately, this lynch seems inevitable. When Hunter flips town, I think the next plan of action should be to lynch Aegor, because he's been on board to lynch lurkers, and has been pretty open about doing it as quick as possible before we can get reads.

[Aeronaut]

If HS flips scum you most definitely MUST lynch Adrien.

And if he flips town, you'd be one to look into, Juls.

[Aeronaut]

Unfortunately, this lynch seems inevitable. When Hunter flips town, I think the next plan of action should be to lynch Aegor, because he's been on board to lynch lurkers, and has been pretty open about doing it as quick as possible before we can get reads.

Y'all be crazy.

What reads do you expect to get? What have you done to produce them? What do you still need to do to get them or develop them to your satisfaction this day?

Do I have the power to unilaterally end the day? No. Have I day-vigged anyone? No. Am I stopping you from posting? No. What I see is a game that is stalling. We have a decent wagon. No one is making any real effort to interact with the living players, and so we are all waiting for replacements that may come today or may come in two weeks. And somehow I am responsible for pushing this lynch through.

Don't like it? I suggest you build a case on someone else or ask incisive questions based on play. Otherwise, stop complaining about the situation that we all

collectively

have produced.

Never did I say you alone created the situation. You're completely right, you are just one vote of nine people who agree with you. Having said that, you have been the most vocal about wanting HS gone very quickly.

Yeh it was a stupid move all right. Certainly doesn't make me want to move my vote off him.

You should move your vote off of him and onto HS.

Vote HS. GOGOGOGOGOGOGO

So yea, if he flips town, you seem like scum to me. Also, while we're on the subject, you completely contradicted yourself here VV.

Like when Clusk was going to be replaced and you voted with the intention of your vote to hammer him?

No, since I have no intention of getting HS killed pre-replacement.

And then, just a day later, before HS gets replaced,

Someone just hammer, please.

So yea, while you're not the only one doing it, you've done it the most. So if he flips town, you seem scummier to me. If he flips scum, then you're going to look a lot less scummy to the rest of us. So you should really hope he's scum.


P-edit - Boon, how would unvoting him make the game move quicker?

Toomai fixed the quotes in this post.

[Aeronaut]

Gahh, messed up the quotes... again.

Mod, fix if you have time, really sorry.

Yep.

[Aeronaut]

Aegor

is pushing way too hard for this lynch, is contradicting himself, and is deflecting questions rather than providing content.

How am I not providing content? I have explained very clearly why I want HS dead. I have wanted him dead since yesterday. I compromised on Clusk near deadline.

Just because you do not like the lynch does not mean that I have not been doing anything. If you have questions about why HS is a good lynch, ask. If you feel that my ISO is vacuous, you clearly have not read it.

What makes this a decent wagon?

Read my posts.

The fact that he's only one vote short of ending the day?

Read my posts.

So you're allowed to ignore questions by just saying "Read my posts"? Nah, that shit ain't gonna fly.

VOTE: Aegor

[Aeronaut]

Again. It is a basic expectation that you read a game you have been in since the beginning and it is not the onus of other to do your work for you. And this pointless hostility is exactly the kind of apathy inducing thing that we do not need in a stagnating game.

I'm not really trying to be hostile, and if I am, then I don't mean that. I agree, everyone should read the game, but Shadows asked what I think are legitimate questions, and Aegor passed them off without really trying to answer them. I've had to repeat myself loads of times, and so has Aegor. I understand how that's frustrating, but he could have very easily just quoted himself or linked to a post, instead of refusing to give information at all. So yea, when Aegor is asked to explain himself, and just says "read my posts", it comes off pretty Anti-town to me.

[Aeronaut]

I'm seriously considering replacing out. I don't think I have ever played with such a group of unenjoyable players. Obviously there are exceptions but this game is not very fun for me at all.

I really don't feel that way, but I'm sorry if anything I said is making the game less enjoyable for you.


That goes for anyone. I don't like games where people are disinterested, period. I'm not going to talk about it anymore, just wanted to get that out before we got too far.

[Aeronaut]

Juls,

Just wait until game-tomorrow and make a decision then.



I will 1-1 HS. Just please, please, someone hammer.

What does it mean that you'll "1-1" HS. I legitimately don't understand what it means, sorry

[Aeronaut]

He's volunteering to be lynched if HS is town. But it's probably not the wisest move to lynch Aegor even if HS is town. There are way scummier people then Aegor. This whole game has been people equating attitude with scuminess and that is just not so. Take Boon for instance. He got attacked like crazy because he was jokey jokey. That is why I think he is town because so many people jumped on him early.

Hmmmm... I agree that a bad attitude doesn't equal scumminess, necessarily. That's one of the reasons I'm not up for a second lurker lynch.

Aegor, while that's an interesting proposition, I don't think I'm going to take that opportunity. Someone else might, but I feel like that's not really helping the town for you to resign to a lynch like that.

[Aeronaut]

And you know what is really irritating? That you continue to mention lynching lurkers as a bad idea when HS' posting is scummy for reasons that have

nothing

to do with lurking. And that you are doing

jack shit

other than complaining about a lurker lynch.

Which is both dumb and scummy.

Are we having a conversation about what I've done now? I've called out Adrien, I've called out Damon, I've called out you. I've spent time not being distracted by stupid HS.

You're right, he's not just a lurker. He made some really idiotic and scummy posts. I just don't think anybody is that idiotic.

[Aeronaut]

I also don't understand why I'm the one you people are trying to get to hammer this guy. There are like seven other people who could do this, not just me.

[Aeronaut]

I figure he knows HS's alignment and knows he'll look bad when it's revealed.

Being honest, if he was my scumbuddy, don't you think I would have just jumped on at the last second and lynched him like the rest of you? Because yeah, getting any sort of support for an Aegor lynch or a lynch on anyone else is obviously looking a little bit bleak right now. It'd be the optimal time for me, if I were "with" him, to jump on board and just say "oh it's to keep the game going". But I'm not going to hammer the stupid VI today, because it's an idiotic wagon.

P-edit:

@Mirhawk

, so I'm voting for Aegor over Hunterseeker, right? I'm doing that because Aegor, this whole game, has only wanted one person gone, and has contributed not much more than wanting that one person. He has also made various "LET'S LYNCH THIS PERSON REALLY QUICK GOGOGOGOGO" posts, a few naked votes, and on a few occasions has buddied with Mirhawk which makes me suspicious. They're always on the same page, and although I do really think Mirhawk is town, Aegor's interactions with him make me weary. All Aegor seems to do is want to lynch people as quickly as possible, (I know it's later in the week now, I'm talking about near the beginning of day 2), and it's not making him look town in my eyes. Hunter just seems like a deflection to me.

Aegor, if you want to disprove what I've said with posts you've made, go right ahead. That's the vibe I get from you.

[Aeronaut]

Except it's likely multiball. I just doubt you two are on the same team.

So then it'd make zero sense to suspect me based on my interaction with/for HS, because I'd want him out.

[Aeronaut]

@Mirhawk

, so I'm voting for Aegor over Hunterseeker, right? I'm doing that because Aegor, this whole game, has only wanted one person gone, and has contributed not much more than wanting that one person.

Which is why your reject of my 1-1 offer makes no sense. If you are that convinced I am scum and the chance of my lynch today is low (as you admit), then there is no reason whatsoever you should not rid the game of a lurker and then get my auto-lynched the next day.

So please explain to me how your behavior makes any sense whatsoever.

Because I feel like a deal like that wouldn't work. Sure, you yourself can say "Vote me tomorrow if I'm wrong today", but that doesn't necessarily mean that the town will do it. I don't think the town would nessessarily vote for you just because you ask them to, which makes it sort of a null offer. So more for that reason, I guess.

They're always on the same page, and although I do really think Mirhawk is town, Aegor's interactions with him make me weary. All Aegor seems to do is want to lynch people as quickly as possible, (I know it's later in the week now, I'm talking about near the beginning of day 2), and it's not making him look town in my eyes. Hunter just seems like a deflection to me.

From what? The

nothing

that forms the rest of the substance of this game?

See, that's the problem. All you see is HS. Are you telling me every other person seems null or town to you? That's obviously not true, or hopefully not true.

[Aeronaut]

As much as I want this game to move on, stuff is seemingly happening now. I didn't feel quite right voting Hunter yet, but meh. Granted, I'll probably hammer if it gets to L-1. For the sake of hammering.

It's at L-1.

[Aeronaut]

As much as I want this game to move on, stuff is seemingly happening now. I didn't feel quite right voting Hunter yet, but meh. Granted, I'll probably hammer if it gets to L-1. For the sake of hammering.

It's at L-1.

Actually, he's at L-2 thanks to Boon unvoting.

Well that's pretty shitty.

[Aeronaut]

Because I feel like a deal like that wouldn't work. Sure, you yourself can say "Vote me tomorrow if I'm wrong today", but that doesn't necessarily mean that the town will do it. I don't think the town would nessessarily vote for you just because you ask them to, which makes it sort of a null offer. So more for that reason, I guess.

I am publicly staking my life on this. I hardly consider the offer void when three players all voted for me within hours. If HS flips town, I have little doubt that you will find the support your need.

See, that's the problem. All you see is HS. Are you telling me every other person seems null or town to you?

Most seem null, as they should. HS' flip will sort most players.

That's obviously not true, or hopefully not true.

Then maybe you should just STFU until you start coming out with all the reads and cases you are demanding other players produce.

When did I demand other players produce a read? I believe Mirhawk did that, though. Maybe you're thinking of him.

And even if he did, there's nothing wrong with asking players for their reads. It's the point of the game. If someone doesn't have reads, their useless to the town.

And i've linked you my reads several times, even given a color coded list. Your point is null.

Well that's pretty shitty.

I blame you specifically for that, since you express clear suspicion of HS but refuse to vote him. shadow is also culpable.

Nope. No suspicion of HS. I don't think he's scum. So I wont vote him. If you can find the point where I said I thought he was scum today, and didn't vote for him for no reason, I'll reneg my vote and hammer him right now. However, there is no such post, so that won't be happening. Please stop making up things you thought I've said.

[Aeronaut]

Sorry if the above post is hostile, I'm just frustrated.

Shadows, I don't understand the point of posting Aegor's entire ISO at the end of that post earlier.

Oh yea, and where is Notscience been? I guess it hasn't actually been that long, but still.

[Aeronaut]

When did I demand other players produce a read?

Hmm, let us see...

All you see is HS. Are you telling me every other person seems null or town to you?

I'm not demanding anything of you there. I'm telling you something I noticed, and you even confirmed it.

And even if he did, there's nothing wrong with asking players for their reads. It's the point of the game. If someone doesn't have reads, their useless to the town.

Great. HS has no reads. Vote him. [/quote]
That actually is a point I hadn't thought of. You're right, he's not giving reads. The problem with using

only

that reason to lynch someone is that there are also like five other people who are just lurking and not giving reads as well. It's something to think about, though. You are at least pushing for something. However, that's not my only reasoning, so I don't know.

And i've linked you my reads several times, even given a color coded list. Your point is null.

Except now, you are opposing the HS lynch WITHOUT DOING ANYTHING BETTER. I think HS is scum. I am trying to get him lynched. You can tell me that I only care about HS, that I am tunneling, that I am useless, etc.,

but the fact remains that I am attempting to bring about the lynch of the person I find scummiest.

I have no idea what you are doing, but it certainly is not that, otherwise you would be telling me why someone else is a better vote instead of wasting my time with this vacuous nonsense.

Once again, the person I find the scummiest is you. I may not be right, but it's what I think is the best move, so that's my vote. So yes, I too am attempting to bring about the lynch of the person I find scummiest. Just because it might not happen today doesn't mean what I'm doing now wont help during the next lynch, and the lynch after that. You could be at D6 and the people with you could look back at this and revisit the things I've said. If they lynch you because of it, and I'm if i'm right, I've helped.

I don't know if we're getting a replacement any time soon for HS. Maybe we should hear from that person. Because maybe HS is a cop or something, and maybe, just maybe, we won't be fucked.

[Aeronaut]

Ah, didn't know he claimed. Couldn't speak whatever language he's speaking.

[Aeronaut]

Aero, again, for a moment, be rational.

HS is at L-2. You want me dead. That will not happen today. It could happen tomorrow.

Why would you NOT want to vote HS? He flips town. My lynch is easier tomorrow, and you have made tomorrow come sooner. He flips scum. We have lynched scum and you can still push for my lynch tomorrow anyway.


EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT THE PROBLEM IS HERE.

You're really sure he's scum, huh?

[Aeronaut]

You're really sure he's scum, huh?

Yes. I am also sure that I want to cast you into an abyss so unfathomably deep that you would exhaust your life before reaching its bottom.

Thanks.

Honestly, you know what, fuck it. It's going to happen so I might as well let it happen. I went back and read the last 8-9 pages, and I decided to change my vote for three reasons.

1. Yea, he did claim VT. Didn't really realize it until you guys said it. After doing that, he goes from stupid town to anti-town.

2. Aegor, by trying to be rational at least, and the fact that you've put yourself out there in the last few post has actually made you seem a little less scummy to me, anyway. You're still on the list, but lower.

3. At this point, he's caused a giant distraction. I've even been saying it. So getting him out gets rid of that distraction , and gives us information. Looking back, he's just impeding our conversation so that it can't go forward. So yea. He can get lynched. I don't think he's scum, but he's hurt the town a lot, and I wish I wasn't stuck in my ways and saw it sooner.

Basically, I'm not used to the large game yet, so I'm more accustomed to having to lynch scum much quicker. We still have time though, I guess. if he's town, it's not the end of the world.

VOTE: HS

[Aeronaut]

Oh wow, this game finally opened again, hurrah!

Hunter was town, gee, what a surprise. I suppose it's good that we can focus on everyone else now. The game was stalling a bit.

Reinoe really surprises me. Notscience also really surprises me. I honestly thought Reinoe was pretty town. Reinoe was scum, so I dunno how beneficial it would be to look at his final reads, but maybe we should look at what Notscience had to say before he bit the dust.

[Aeronaut]

I wish it hadn't taken so long for Scarab to get a replacement, but people are lame I guess. TheWayItEnds, you have a lot to catch up on, but props to you for replacing into a game this big.

P-edit: Nah, I didn't mean he looked super town, he was pretty quietish. I dunno, I just got that vibe. My vibes are wrong a lot though :/

[Aeronaut]

I'm confident. Reinoe swung both sides for me for awhile like you said, but I eventually settled on town. I was obviously wrong though. Only human.

[Aeronaut]

For whatever reason, when I opened the page and Aeronaut had changed his avatar back. It made me jump.

Yea, I tried to change it to a Gallifreyan symbol which said "Hi, I'm Aeronaut, nice to meet you" but this forum is dumb about avatars, and it looked stupid when I tried to shrink it down. So I changed back to angel-guitar guy.

Also, I think I want to lynch Boon less than I did before.

Why is this?

P-Edit: Yea, I don't know why the whole list of people wasn't there. I just copy pasted from one of the vote lists, I probably screwed it up. That list is a bit out of date now, anyway.

[Aeronaut]

Hmm.....

I dunno about Boon, to be honest. I think he's just being obnoxious.

I've watched Adrien come online for a few minutes and then go offline again. Adrien, start responding to the questions you've been ignoring.

P-edit: Yea, Aegor pushed that lynch extremely hard. From the start of D2, he wanted HS quicklynched as quickly as possible. Of course, he wasn't the only one on that wagon. I just don't like how much he pushed for it when there were clearly some scummier people to lynch. My vote is between him and Adrien at the moment. Waiting for both of them to say something before I do anything though.

PP-edit: Realistically, I don't know if we were ever going to get a replacement.

[Aeronaut]

Reading Reinoe's ISO, there's not a whole lot of conclusions that can be drawn without a lot of assumptions, really.There were only two things I saw of note.

1. Reinoe defends SKOT without much real evidence except that "admitting to an unorthadox playstyle is very townie", and that Reinoe had played with SKOT in unnamed other games, and that it was normal. Again, not a whole lot of conclusion to draw here, just something to keep in mind.

2. Reinoe calls out Boonskies a few times, which would be unnessesary if they were scum buddies. Of course, it could've been an act, but Reinoe provides some solid evidence against Boon, or it seems pretty solidish to me, so I don't think they were together. That being said, we don't know if it's multiball or no, but if we find out there's an SK or vig, we should come back to this.

Reinoe on Boon vvv

Boon, due to events that took place in OPEN 562 I no longer believe that you're just a VI playing VI. I believe that you're scum.


The tl/dr is that we had a player in that game playing the VI but a lot of people were saying he was "too scummy to be scum". However not only was that player scum, he was a Serial Killer.

Now the common perception is that people will not play in such a way because it greatly increases the probability that they'll wind up getting lynched. The common perception is that Serial Killers will especially play cautiously. But what a learning experience that was.

VOTE: Boonskiies

[Aeronaut]

@Wake I've checked it already. She's the same.


@SKOT forgot to ask, what made you want to investigate N_M?

[Aeronaut]

I don't like how aero hammered with deadline well off then is now distancing himself greatly from the HS lynch
-B_E

I didn't hammer, I'm not distancing, and I would have to be the dumbest scum ever to delay a mislynch that long.

If AdrienC did breadcrumb being an Odd-Night Commuter, I don't see why Scum wouldn't have targeted him. A Doctor didn't protect him Night 2, and

assuming

there's an Odd-Night Vig in play, two Scum factions murdered last Night. Why did neither strike Adrien, but reinoe and NS?

Don't assume. It makes an Ass out of U and Me.
As for why Adrien and Skot didn't didn't die

again

, I agree that I'm pretty confused why they're both still alive. Adrien, yes, is sort of lynchbait, but SKOT has been off the radar mostly. Hmm.... I also don't like how Adrien is trying to say he breadcrumbed that he was the

odd

commuter. Yes, he breadcrummed that he was the commuter, but no odd or even.

I think it's reasonable that there's an Odd-Night Vig, because an Even-Night Vig died.

Hmm... I don't know if it works like that. Like I doubt every single role has a odd or even day. Based on the first day where two very town players died, I doubt there are Vigs with us at this point. More likely, a second scumteam or an SK got lucky last night.

[Aeronaut]

Adrien or Aeronaut

are you going to explain your suspicions this time, or are you going to continue to post single sentences with no substance at all?


P-edit: Why are you listening to other players opinions instead of forming your own, TWIE?

[Aeronaut]

Adrien or Aeronaut

are you going to explain your suspicions this time, or are you going to continue to post single sentences with no substance at all?

Go over his ISO. That's all he does.

Yea. Wow, I never really noticed until now, but a lot of his posts are sheeping or useless jabber. Almost every vote is a naked one as well.

Aeronaut for whiteknighting the HS lynch. also didn't like his reaction just now or to Reinoe's "reaction test" thing

My reaction to you not explaining yourself ever? You're not helping anybody by just throwing out names and pointing fingers without a hint of reasoning. All that does is cause unnecessary paranoia and taking the spotlight off of yourself. Supply an original opinion soon, because you're getting more anti-town by the moment.

P-edit: I can't even read Boon anymore. I'm really not sure my stance on him, but currently it's leaning town because of the thing with Reinoe. That doesn't necessarily mean anything, but Its sort of a lead.

I've also decided I don't like SKOT's reactions lately... He's been pretty quiet, and I still don't believe that he really felt the need to claim D1 because of "pressure". I also don't believe Adrien's claim for the same reason. Planning on going through some of SKOT's other games to see if this has happened before.

[Aeronaut]

@Adrien & Aero
Just to be clear are either of you actually calling NM scum? Or are you just making indirect cuts at his credibility?

I called him Anti-town, Mirhawk. For somebody who makes a lot of indirect cuts, you sure hate indirect cuts.

[Aeronaut]

I didn't think the fact I thought you were scum was a secret.

Vote: Aeronaut

Anyways, I would probably call NM as pretty clearly town.

He's probably town, yes, but he's currently not

helping

the town. Anti-town. Learn the difference.

Inb4 NM sheeps that vote.

[Aeronaut]

Nah, I wasn't "WhiteKnighting" HS. I seriously thought he was town, and surprise surprise, I was right. Honestly, would someone who is scum act that idiotic? No. But in spite of that, it was pretty obvious that nothing was going to get done until he was gone, so he got lynched.

P-edit @Boon She said the middle ones are interchangeable.

[Aeronaut]

B_Town seems like he's not reading the whole game to me. It's as if he reads the most recent page and then says something pretty obvious.

[Aeronaut]

@everyone:

At this point, does anyone else feel like Wake has something nefarious to gain by getting other people to believe there are two vigs? I really cannot understand his factually untenable and weird push for the two-vig theory, which has never made any sense. Now he has started ignoring posts that explain why his theory makes no sense

while continuing to peddle it upon on us

.

Yea, I don't quite understand it either. Maybe he's an SK trying to throw us off of the trail by making us believe there's a Vig? That's the only thing I can think of that would make any sense.

[Aeronaut]

Welp, Boonskies said he was town, he must be town.

[Aeronaut]

Oh yay, An Aegor/Wake/NM flamewar.

A bit busy right this moment, but I have a few things to add.

@Wake I personally have no real answer as to if there is a Vig or not. I don't understand how you are so sure there is one, and I don't understand how Aegor is so sure there isn't. At this point, it's still guesswork, and it's not really information that's really beneficial at the moment. I don't understand why you feel it's so important. Maybe at D4 or D5 it's something to start thinking about, but right now there's too many variables.

@Aegor Why do you think we absolutely can't lynch Boon today? I don't know if you've answered that before, but you seem pretty sure of it. I also don't understand why It'd be OK to lynch him tomorrow but not today. Answer whenever

@Alina Nobody appreciates the color code, do they?

@BP Would love to hear your thoughts on anything going on. At all.

I have a few more, but I really have to go. Will be back in a few hours ~

[Aeronaut]

@Wake I personally have no real answer as to if there is a Vig or not.

I don't understand how you are so sure there is one

, and

I don't understand how Aegor is so sure there isn't

. At this point, it's still guesswork, and it's not really information that's really beneficial at the moment. I don't understand why you feel it's so important. Maybe at D4 or D5 it's something to start thinking about, but right now there's too many variables.

Fanning the flames of both sides of the arguement.

Not sure why Aero doesn't have more votes yet.

So then you're telling me we can say for sure which it is, Mirhawk? If you read carefully, I was saying they're both wrong, not both right. Read more carefully next time.

[Aeronaut]

Yes thank you for clearing that up Aero, we only speak German in my native Mongolia. I see now why I was unable to read it properly.

And yes, you totally fanned the flames there. You tacitly supported both sides by criticizing the other. And you didn't say that one side or the other was wrong or right, you said you didn't understand them, leaving you room to swing either way

I think you missed a bit of it there. I said I don't understand how either has any idea what the setup is, because there is little to no solid information about it. If there is, enlighten me. THEN, I said that it is pointless to keep up the stupid argument about it. So I repeat, they are both wrong. Again. You are just as desperate to Lynch me as Aegor was to lynch HS yesterday. While you have done nothing D3 except for give your only read, (surprise, it's me!), the rest of us are looking at every other person in the game.

I also never said there was no way that a second vig exists. I just said that the facts do not support that claim, and in fact strongly indicate the opposite.

I don't see how they strongly indicate anything. They don't. There's way too many variables.

[Aeronaut]

I don't see how they strongly indicate anything. They don't. There's way too many variables.

No, there are not. There is a finite and manageable number of variables.

We have two nights with two nightkills. That necessarily means two scum factions unless there are two even-night vigs and an odd-night vig. I am sure you will agree that is not at all likely.

We can therefore conclude beyond a reasonable doubt that there are two scum factions.

Setting aside NM's reasonable question as to how either of the N1 kills could reasonably be interpreted as pro-town, setup speculation also dismisses the idea of an odd-night Vig. In order for their to be an odd-night Vig, one of the scum factions would have had to not submit a NK or be blocked or target someone who was doc-protected. The probabilities of the block and protect are very low just based on the number of players. I find it very unlikely that scum did not target someone. While I am sure that it has happened, I personally have never had it happen in any game in which I have played.

Therefore an odd-night doc is unlikely.

Alright, that's logical.

Again though, it doesn't really matter at this point, because what would we actually do differently if we knew the setup? Probably not much, not much we can do really until the game gets smaller. So I guess that brings us back to why the hell does Wake care so much?

And @Aegor if you could answer my Boon question when you get the chance.

[Aeronaut]

vote areonaut

FOS:SKOT

I probably will. Just don't rush to lynch this time, hmmkay?

Assuming this was aimed at Aegor, could you explain this as Aegor wasn't actually the hammer on either lynch?

I think he was talking about everyone in general, since the lynches this game seem to escalate quickly.

So... not sure what the naked vote is about. I've given my reasons for wanting to vote SKOT in the past, and that vote just seems sort of stupid. Opportunistic. etc. As I've also said in the past, randomly pointing fingers instead of giving reasons doesn't help anybody. Also, at least have the decency to spell my name right.

Alina, I haven't read the writeups yet but I'm going to sit down with some tea and give it a go.

P-edit @Alina haha yea sometimes I refresh the page for longer than I'd like to admit

[Aeronaut]

Interesting points on SKOT, not going to commit on that till I have an opportunity to go back and reread as I don't really remember a lot of that stuff very well.
Also going to check if Reinoe is prone to defending teammates, I can't recall if he directly intervened on Chaoslord or JoshB's behalves in our last game.

Decision to track NM is what stands out to me. If the track was about vote placement, then what was it about his vote placement that made him the choice.

Yea, I was wondering why he would pick NM to track instead of someone like Aegor who he was pretty vocal about hating, or Salamence/CABD who he also really wanted lynched, but who incidentally died instead... NM seemed pretty townish D1/2 I believe, and I don't think SKOT had any reservations about him IIRC

Reading through his ISO, I see quite a bit of defending his play by saying it's because of "where I came from" and whatnot. He basically wanted Wake run up to L-1, so then he said that he would state intent to hammer on Wake. He claimed it was so that Wake would claim, and that's just the way he played, but I dunno... Seems like an awfully easy way to get somebody quicklynched.

Moving on, he passes off almost every single comment against him as "Harping on Shit" which I guess just magically makes it irrelevant. Sorry, SKOT, but no. Aegor continues to question him, and SKOT proceeds to effectively ignore Aegor's questioning by calling it bully-sticking. I didn't read what Aegor was saying as really aggressive or hostile, and in no way was it "bully sticking." So in that regard, SKOT is still giving as little information as possible.

Then, Salamence makes him claim. This part makes zero sense to me. None. SKOT had spent 23 posts telling us that when you get run up to L-1, then, and only then, you claim. And guess what happened in post 24? He clams. He was like L-9. News for ya buddy, that's not L-1.

SKOT goes on to claim that it was because he was angry and frustrated and that's why he claimed. That's sort of a valid reason, but wait... didn't he just spend 30 posts telling us that he's been playing Mafia for over ten years at a different place, and that's why he's playing so differently than the rest of us? Wouldn't someone who's been playing this game for ten years be a bit used to the emotions it derives, and be able to deal with them instead of claiming D1 for no reason?

People strongly question his wicked early claim (for good reason), and he immediately goes back on it saying how poorly executed and dumb it was to do. Wishy washy. Timey Wimey.

Aegor tells him he is playing poorly. SKOT votes for Aegor..... and

then calls Aegor town

....

In the same sentence

..... ugh who is this guy. And nope, it's not a policy lynch either... here's the real reasoning.

@skot, why are you voting aegor?

because He pissed me off and I wanted to slap him in the face.

The rest of the game is SKOT doing a whole lot of nothing besides short little sentences of agreement. Also, funny thing, almost every single vote he's ever done, is actually a naked vote. However, he covers it up by commenting on something completely unrelated, and then voting offhandedly.

Guess he just got lazy with me.

SKOT, I'm glad you decided to naked vote, because I never realized how fucking obvious this was. Have a nice day.


VOTE: SKOT

[Aeronaut]

>.> why Juls

[Aeronaut]

I'm sorry SKOT, that that wagon went so quickly. You should've had a chance to speak, regardless of your alignment. :/

[Aeronaut]

VOTE: Juls

VOTE: Skot oops

[Aeronaut]

Juls, explain that BS hammer.

[Aeronaut]

Hm... Now that's odd.

Juls, why'd you do that? I don't know if Scum would deliberately do something so anti-Town, but it sure was dumb of you to do that.

Agreed. I was very put-off by the fact that Hunterseeker flipped town. I didn't like SKOT lurking or his night choice target. When I saw you trying to slow/stop the lynch I decided to reaction test to see reactions to the hammer. I didnt like Aeronaut's or AdrienC's.

VOTE: Aeronaut but would gladly vote Adrien.

You didn't like my reaction to you hammering without stating intense with your only explanation being "Whoops"? Are you drunk?

[Aeronaut]

Juls is the lynch for today, for lurking the entirety of D3, then quick hammering without intent, and then giving a BS reasoning for and OMGUS vote.

I refuse to change my vote today, Juls is scum.


P-edit: saying you're "OK with a lynch" doesn't mean intent to hammer. That was before we were anywhere near a lynch as well.

[Aeronaut]

I didnt apologize to SKOT for voting for him. I thought he was scum, and I voted for him. I apologized because everyone he should have been allowed to say something before scum like you came in and quicklynched. If you seriously think you can hide behind "reaction tests" for that BS, you're wrong. The fact that you're now back to saying adrien is scum because of "his gameplay" and not because of your alleged reaction test, means it wasn't a reaction test at all.

[Aeronaut]

Also, I'd rather not have the good townsfolk forget my thoughts on the possibility of an Odd-Night Vigilante. Apparently if there is one, he or she didn't answer my prayers last night. What sort of cruel being does that? And let's not forget that there were two deaths Night 2, in spite of the Even-Night Vigilante dying the night before. If there is one, I don't quite understand these latest happenings. Oh well. Something to ponder later I guess.

Aeronaut, if Juls is mislynched, may I have your head tomorrow? I considered Aegor, but I don't think there's much there.

Are you asking my permission? I'd like to not be lynched, but if it helps you to narrow down who's scum and who's not then go for it. There are far scummier people at this point.

Some notes on a few strange Juls/Mirhawk reactions....

Mirahawks is Aeronaut's buddy if he flips scum.

Here, Juls accuses Mirhawk of being my scumbuddy. Anyone who's read the game at all would know this probably is not true. Mirhawk's been very vocal about thinking I'm scum, and at this point it would be against win condition. This accusation strikes me as some hollow distancing that nobody could actually use to prove Mirhawk is scum.

I was going to explain how what Juls said made zero sense, but then I decided that I wanted to hear Mirhawk's reaction. Here's what happened:

An interesting assertion, care to elaborate? Is it because I didn't vote Aero?

Mirhawk, instead of calling the accusation out for the fallacy that it is, gives a very... safe answer. He doesn't call out Juls at all.

@Juls
Objectively speaking that hammer was pretty bad, at the least you could have allowed time for SKOT to explain his reasoning on following NM. However I'm more inclined to take your word then disbelieve you on your reasoning.

Helped in part by the fact that yes I do find Adrien and Aeronaut scummy. Though I should note that I am getting some paranoid vibes off the fact that you have the exact same scumreads as me.

Once again, calling Juls scummy without calling her scum. While Mirhawk says that the hammer was very bad, it's apparently ok for the sole reason that Mirkhawk is "inclined to take your word than disbelieve [Juls] on [her] reasoning". Mirhawk, why are so inclined to believe Juls, exactly?


Note, that the rest of the game, Juls and Mirhawk have usually been in agreement on both things, and have haven't interacted much. Only now, are they engaging in distancing.

If Juls flips scum, Mirhawk could be her buddy.

Scum may very well be trying to capitalize on Jul's

stupidity

reaction test.

If she flips Town, I have no problem primarily suspecting Aeronaut and Aegor.

...

...should memory serve,

both

of them were

quite

happy on the last three mislynches.

Ehh.... I wasn't very happy with HS if you recall. I sort of just realized it was necessary to move the game along. And so it did. The other two were acting very scummy, so yea, I voted for them.

[Aeronaut]

That's L-3 plus an intent to hammer. Remember Aeronaut tomorrow and if/when he flips scum, do Adrien possibly Mirahawks.

I also have lurker scum reads on Brood and tn. Good luck town, it's practically a lost cause. Take it as a challenge cause it's gonna be one.

Yea, I don't like the lack of effort from Brood and the random naked vote from tn. Who gave intent to hammer?

Tn, explain yourself.

Brood, start contributing or die tomorrow. We're on D4, it's too far in to still be passing by as a lurker.

[Aeronaut]

Lol, a little twerp like you couldn't freak me out if you tried.

I honestly don't care if I am lynched. I am only annoyed that everyone is so lazy and won't look back at my entire game and are going to judge me on one action. Why, would I, as scum bring so much attention to myself? Everyone voting me are absolutely ridiculous because there is no fucking way I would have done that as scum. But because this is village idiot mafia I'm going to be lynched.

The reason I'm voting you is sort of the opposite, actually. During all of D3, you were out of the spotlight most of the time. It seems like you deliberately stayed

out

of the spotlight. Now, granted, there are a few other people still doing that, but the fact that you didn't interact with anyone at all for the whole day, and then came in at the last second and quick hammered, without an intent or explanation, seems extremely scummy to me. It's not one thing, or another, its the mixture of both.

I also don't understand your play at all for D4. You seem to just be calling out everyone you possibly can. It just seems like flailing to me, and the more you do it the more I don't like it. So my vote is staying.

[Aeronaut]

I'm really not a fan of this Juls wagon growing so fast, especially with Brood barely contributing to the game at all and hopping on it with almost a naked vote. I'd especially like to hear more from TheWayItEnds before anything happens since I was leaning scum on Scarab.

Brood is next on my scumlist. He's just a bit too quiet, and a bit too quick to sheep.

I agree, TWIE and BP need to talk before this lynch goes through, if it even does.

P-edit: Juls, I don't see a town motivation for it either, though. You're saying "why would I draw attention to myself", which makes some sense, but the better question is "why would town quicklynch?" What did you gain from hammering before SKOT could even log on?

Basically, the scum motivation makes more sense than the town motivation.

[Aeronaut]

Why do I think Aero's scum? Because he IS scum.

During the first two days he doesn't take a hard position on anything, and a lot of the things he does comment on he hedges so that he doesn't have to stick to that later. Not to mention he did zero scumhunting day one or two.

This is laughable. Besides the very beginning of the game, Mirhawk's only scumread for three days has been me. Only me. He added on scapegoat Adrien so it

seems

like he's really trying. You, my friend, are tunneling. I've been completely open about my reads the whole game, and you haven't given a decent read about anybody in a long, long time. How about you give us a full reads list and then we can talk about who's giving hard positions.

Look at how absolutely reluctant he is to put a vote on Clusk it's actually kind of comical. This is really only matched by how hard he fought to not vote HS. He made sure everyone knew he didn't want to be on either wagon, then jumped on them anyways.

Nope. I changed my mind. And I'm still happy with that lynch. One again, if you read my reasoning, I decided to vote him because he was so fucking distracting to the rest of us, and I was sick of him pissing on the town. So he's gone.

He continually insinuates that players are acting in scummy manners without calling them scummy. He also keeps commenting on discussions he has no stakes in and usually uses this opportunity to insinuate one or both of the players involved are doing something suspicious, but never calls anyone scum due to it.

What are you even talking about? Just because someone does something suspicious doesn't make them automatically scum. You softdefended Juls like it was your job, and that's suspicious to me. It doesn't make you scum, necessarily. It makes you less town. Unlike half this town, I don't jump on every wagon at the drop of a hat and without a reason. If someone acts scummy, I'll point it out, and see how they respond.

If everybody who has done something scummy went directly onto my scumlist, every player in this game would be on my scumlist.

Get over. It's how I play.

In fact, here are some quotes from the last game I played. I was town, you can check. I just don't want to be wrong, or distracted.

Spoiler:

Hm.... Well, then I'm a bit suspicious of the lurkers right now.

I'm a little suspicious of Sakura and Mathblade for both nolynching together. It seems... odd. They seemed to overly cover it up, or Sakura did by very harshly questioning Mathblade's choice to follow in #9 and #11 posts. Seems like mathblade may have made a mistake and slightly revealed their teamwork, and Sakura tried to cover it up since she is a bit more experienced and knows what she's doing. Seems strange to me, but I may be misreading.

Turning right around and voting the person who is accusing you... Seems a little defensive.

I think I've decided that I should sit on my vote for now. For those people that want my vote in their bandwagon, why should I vote with you?

That's me,

as town.

Seem familiar?

Pedit
Look Aero thinks ANOTHER lurker is scum. This is what the fourth one, and that's not even counting HS.

Sorry, wasn't it you who voted for HS and Clusk?

[Aeronaut]

I also have some problems concerning BTown. Considering that there's two of them there is startlingly little content coming from them. The fact that the two of them are communicating between themselves and post next to no content makes me feel like it's deliberate.

Just to be clear, are you implying something about them? Even... insinuating?

[Aeronaut]

Aero, vote BP. Trust me. Doooooooooooooooooo iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit.

Ehh, I trusted you last time.

Actually though, I'm going to read that post tomorrow. It's like 3AM here. I'll give thoughts on it then.

[Aeronaut]

This has happened before.

Hammer HS and if he flips town, I will offer myself up to the town tomorrow, my life for his, i.e. our lives are one-to-one or one-for-one.

I will line up my own lynch. No joke. If BP flips town, I will 100% not accept any lynch tomorrow except my own.

Seem familiar?

When HS was at L-1, coincidentally, Aegor said he was absolutely, 100% sure HS was scum. He even offered to be lynched the next day, and that's how sure he was. Why should any of us believe him now? It's literally the same gambit.

BP has done very little to make me suspect he's scum. The HS hypocrisy thing is a bit sketchy, but there isn't much besides that. You on the other hand have wanted a quicklynch almost every day. Every day except today of course. Today,

you suddenly want to hear from everyone before lynching.

Why the change in attitude, Aegor?

-----------------------------

I think that Juls, Aegor, and TWIE are scumbuddies.

Here's what really happened.

D4 Begins

Aegor initially votes for Juls, using similar reasoning to me.

The wagon grows quickly. Aegor says that he doesn't think Juls should get lynched today, despite still having a vote on her.

He unvotes. Then, suddenly, BP is his target out of nowhere.

He then scolds the rest of us for wagoning too quickly. Again, a complete contrast from D1/D2 when Aegor wanted lynch as soon as possible.

Once BP's wagon starts growing, Aegor is suddenly back to wanting the quickest lynch possible.

Aegor counterwagoned.

He started this BS BP wagon to take the wagon off of Juls. He's using his "If BP flips town you can vote me tomorrow" thing again because for some reason, it worked last time, and it brings his scum team one step closer to winning the game. Why else would he change his mind so suddenly?

I've also been watching TWIE. Juls was still pretty close to being lynched, and he defends her with this gem. And then, he sheeps Aegor.

0% Aegor?

Thats good enough for me.

Unvote
Vote: BP

The rest of his posts for the game have been something along the lines of this.

STOP.

TALKING.

VOTE.

BP.

So you could say he's pretty eager for the day to be over as well. The two of them really don't want to vote Juls, so if they're scum it's likely she is scum with them. The reason I think Aegor picked BP is because he is extremely unavailable. BP won't be around to defend himself much, as he said a few posts above. The perfect scapegoat.

I'm alright with lynching any of the three of them. We should lynch Aegor, and when he flips scum, we should lynch the other two. If we vote BP now and he flips town, tomorrow is too late to lynch Aegor. We're running out of time, and BP is not the lynch today.

VOTE: Aegor

[Aeronaut]

Alright I'll fly with this

Vote: BP

Aegor is heavily implying he is certain that BP is scum, and instead of lynching BP some of you would rather lynch Aegor when it's abundantly clear that if BP flips town Aegor is getting lynched tomorrow anyways.
You do realize how stupid that is right?

I understand what you're saying as far as him being certain. If this was the first time he was certain, I'd probably take the bait. But what would be his motivation for the certainty on HS if he wasn't completely certain? Why do that?

[Aeronaut]

What read? Between pages 7 and 10,back when I was skimming through the thread? What read?

Are you not reading my posts? I'm gonna do that then.

Farside

- town.

Sal and replacement

- town
Aeronaut - null leaning town
Adrien - either scum or VI

Reinoe

- null

SKOT

- very idiot town
Wake - scum

Scarab

- scumrab

Hunter

- idiot, either town or scum

Clusk

- scum

Soren

- null null

Aegor

- leaning town

Alina

- town champion
BroodKing - nullker

Boonskiies

- town?

Non flipped reads (excluding myself and Boon)

Aeronaut - null leaning town
Adrien - either scum or VI
Wake - scum
BroodKing - nullker

I suspect she would spread the reads around which means we are missing a town read on a partner. And she lists Aero as town (which lines up for me cause I suspect him)

VOTE: Aeronaut
Please sheep me.

This is invalid, because of this:

Scarab

- scumrab

BP called Scarab scum, and he was scum. That means that everyone's alignment isn't necessarily the opposite of what BP said. Not sure why he'd call out scarab like that... maybe it's multiball after all?

moving on...

I'm actually leaning less scum on Juls I think... My theory before that she was being protected by Aegor and TWIE is less valid because Aegor was indeed the cop, but not nessesarily gone, because TWIE could have still seen the opportunity and taken it. Although now that I think about it, it doesn't make sense for him to buss one scum buddy to save another...

Juls is probably town, unless he really just didn't know what he was doing.

It might make sense to look more at Aegor's reads than it would to look at BP's and assuming that the opposite of what he said was always true. Anything could be distancing, bussing, or just random garble to throw us off.

@Wake:

If you were so sure Aegor was scum, why would you blindly vote with him?

[Aeronaut]

I'm appealing to emotion? You may want to look up your terms before you use them incorrectly.

[Aeronaut]

@Juls
Actually I think you're right about the Fibbonacci numbers. I was at first thinking it could have been the name of one scum faction, and that he was a cop that could only find one faction. But your idea seems much more likely, especially given the way Toomai worded the role.

@Aeronaut
Pretty sure Juls is referring to whether we know a players alignment or not when she says flipped.

In any case I figure we have either one or two scum left, as well as a serial killer. I also figure that if Aeronaut, Adrien, Burning_Town, and Wake all died we'd be done.

Vote Aeronaut

Did you have reasons for voting me besides the ones I invalidated?

[Aeronaut]

You had reasons all game, and then when I showed you a town me from a previous game, you stopped mentioning me all game.

If anyone is curious, this is the post -> http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p6083929

Mirhawk's reasoning for suspecting me are that I'm "careful" and that I sometimes imply that people are scummy without calling them scum. I do that no matter what, and I showed it to Mirhawk in the post above, which links a past game. I was town.

Boon, you say I'm Appealing to emotion, and that's why your voting me. Find where I actually do that, otherwise, that's essentially a naked vote.

[Aeronaut]

You realize the link you posted in your previous post linked to THIS GAME right?

Also Undermining a persons credibility when you have no intention of voting for them is scummy.

Hey wake do us a favor and kill scum tonight.

Hypocrisy.

----

No I didn't post a link to the full game, I posted it to the post where I linked it and explained it. Wrong wording. You can't defend you're suspicions by saying "Aeronaut is scummy, but he's acting town. But he could still be scum"

More questions for Mirhawk, or anyone I guess.

1. Why the hell, on N3, would I kill Alina or NM? Alina saw me as town for sure, and NM was sheeping everyone, and was bound to be a target for a lynch sooner or later.

2. Why would I randomly out TWIE like that? The consensus among the scum faction was obviously to bus BP, don't you think I would have just followed him instead of pointing out the scummy ness of yet ANOTHER member of the team? That doesn't make any sense.

3. What did Aegor think about me?

[Aeronaut]

Lol... Well I generally thought he had changed his mind about me mid game, implying he might have seen that I was town through his ability as cop.

I doubt he tracked me at all, then, because then he would have been "absolutely sure" one way or the other.


I'm going to go to bed now, though. Please don't hammer without intent. It would be detrimental to all of us.

Last thoughts: I'm not scum. Most of the people who have been NKed have been people who thought I was town of just didn't have desire to lynch me. At least one of <Mirhawk,Juls,Boon> would be dead at this point since they've all suspected me this point pretty hard, and it would be idiotic to keep them around.

Adrien seemed fake excited at "dat crossfire". Wake is being weird and contradictory, and he insists there's still a Vig. He really wants us to think there's not a SK.

Please examine Brood more. If he's scum we should all commit seppuku for letting a lurker scum make it this far.

I'm tired. I guess I'll post a bigger reads list in the morning if you people haven't lynched me yet.

[Aeronaut]

Wake, vote aero please.

Yes wake, please sheep us into Lylo

[Aeronaut]

Yea. If you're gonna lynch me, fine, but at least wait a bit for the actual scum to make a mistake, so you know who to lynch tomorrow. That's not a sarcastic comment, that's a real suggestion

[Aeronaut]

Ooooo, I call Wake out and suddenly he wants me gone? What happened to "using our time wisely?"

[Aeronaut]

VOTE: Wake[/v]

Lol your contradiction was so classic

[Aeronaut]

Adrien is scum for jumping on the wagon after never mentioning me as scum.

[Aeronaut]

This is a little late for a "Bah" post, but...

[Aeronaut]

Wooo! I lose regardless!

But actually, I had an awesome time playing with everyone here, and I'd be happy to play with most of you again. I'm pretty pumped that I got so far as SK in my second game ever. Really my favorite role and I hope I get it again some day.

Most of my kills were aimed at scum purposely. I realized halfway through that the town wasn't going to get it done, and I didn't want to be stuck in Lylo with four scum. Reinoe, I'm mad sorry that's how your game ended. That sucks.

I'll have everyone know that I was always legitimately scum hunting, I just apparently was scummy about it. I thought BP was town for sure, and I defended him like an idiot. Dumb, dumb Aeronaut

N_M was also killed because I thought he was scum. Farside was killed because he was onto me.

Good on Mirhawk and Juls for calling me on my shit.


As a whole, I really liked this game and Toomai ran it like a pro. Will definitely play in whatever game he mods next

Will stick around for post game a little

[Aeronaut]

Wake, the dead QT might be a rough read. I know as for myself, I think you played dreadfully, but you pulled it through at the end and that's what matters. As far as I'm concerned, I'd be fine to play with you again, but please just don't be the vig

[Aeronaut]

It's weird having this game over, It's been going so long it just feels like a part of my life.

Oh well, onto NY176

[Aeronaut]

Burning Earth is secretly 109.5 years old

[Aeronaut]

True. We can't all be god, though