Mafia 64: The New "C9" - Game over!

[HungryJoe]

I've got to admit Albert, I'm not really followin' ya here.
Not enough for a vote, though, mind you. =)

[HungryJoe]

Yeah, I kinda do. I don't know if that's good or not, and I guess it doesn't really matter on day 1. =) But still!

[HungryJoe]

Sorry about this fellas, but I'm gonna be gone probably without internet access until Monday night/Tuesday morning. I'll talk to ya folks then, and I'll drop in if I have the chance. =)

[HungryJoe]

Well, BM, I hate to be harsh on you in both games, but you're kind of bringing it upon yourself here.

dont change what he said Glork. he said he expected you to play well here as town. i dont know why you are defending him, when his obvious intention was to set you up for a lynch tomorrow.
trying to get him off the hook on semantics is a poor show... Rolling Eyes

I think you're trying to take this joke way too seriously to be a pleasant vanilla townie here. I think it might behoove you to make a defense here, rather than attack, so that I might have a reason to take this off you...

Vote : BM

[HungryJoe]

Bleh. I'm feeling wierd and that last bit doesn't make sense to me anymore. What I mean is: Defend yourself solidly, and I will rethink my vote on you if you are logical and persuasive. =b

[HungryJoe]

Ehm. I am thinking that maybe this is just BM's playstyle, fellas. And as much of an ass as he makes himself out to be (with great joy, it would seem), it might just be the way he plays. It's quite the distraction from real scum, and makes him a horrid townie. =\

BUT. Neither is he defending himself, but just giving up and "Oh, hurry and lynch me already", which I'm pretty sure is a minor scumtell here. Without a defense to look at, how are we supposed to NOT lynch you? If you're townie, you should at least be trying.

[HungryJoe]

Actually, I was also wondering why that was, Yogurt.

As for Glork: BM really has been a bit odd here, you've got to admit. But, the more I read other games he's in, the uneasier I get with his playstyle. Regardless of whether or not he's mafia/town, he really just LOOKS like really bad scum, I think.

Nonetheless, I still consider him the most suspicious, if only because in this game he's adopted a 'Go ahead! Kill me!" posture, which I don't think a townie would do, honestly. So your slap is noted, Glork, but ignored until BM does something like defend himself, or at least look like some kind of townie to me.

[HungryJoe]

Well, I can see that in my absence, I've been accused. Interesting, no? Well, let's go backwards in time a moment:

I'm not in favor of a meta-lynch of BM either. I'm in favor of getting him to adapt his playstyle so that he isn't practically

always

an immediate suspect

Now, you're saying I shouldn't vote/not vote for metagame reasons, then? Good! Because BM is acting quite suspiciously, and I stated so! I think this is the way he plays in every game, but I'm trying not to metagame this, and go with what I'm seeing in this game.

Well, BM, I hate to be harsh on you in both games, but you're kind of bringing it upon yourself here.

dont change what he said Glork. he said he expected you to play well here as town. i dont know why you are defending him, when his obvious intention was to set you up for a lynch tomorrow.
trying to get him off the hook on semantics is a poor show... Rolling Eyes

I think you're trying to take this joke way too seriously to be a pleasant vanilla townie here. I think it might behoove you to make a defense here, rather than attack, so that I might have a reason to take this off you...

Vote : BM

Now, what I'm actually saying here is that I'm in two games with BM, both of which I'm highly suspicious of him being scum in. In both games, he acts like bad scum, then refuses to set up a solid defense. I'm rather frustrated honestly, and I just want him to do something for the town, if he's a townie. I mean, even scum should realize they need to try and defend themselves a little. It's just... exasperating.

In fact, you said yourself, Glork:

lol i seem to be getting more and more games like this.

This is a sign that you should probably be doing something about your gameplay.

But this is still metagaming, and it doesn't rule out that he could be acting this way because he's actually scum.

And what's this:

As frustrated as I am with BM, I don't like the speed with which this wagon has grown. I'm going to take aim and

Unvote, Vote: HungryJoe

for his behavior regarding BM.

You pick me, out of the many who are on BM,

including you

, when there are quite obviously better targets. In fact, I actually put up a REASON.

These two votes are far more suspicious than my own, for instance:

unvote, vote:Battle Mage

Might as well get it over with today.

unvote, vote:Battle Mage

Might as well get it over with today.

You are right, and after reading his scumtell,

Vote:Battle Mage

Might as well join on the Wagon

Basically, you brought no argument to your vote for BM, then voted for me when I had actually brought a reason to the fight. In fact between you and Albert, who follows you without doubt:

Vote: HungryJoe

I'm uneasy with a BM vote, and the only other bandwagon is on me, so let's see if HJ can defend himself against Glork's arguments.

Maybe Glork can expand on HJ's behavior ?

...even when

there is no argument from you.

I find both of your attacks quite suspect right now, although still not as bad as BM. So, my vote on BM stays, because I am not frivolous with my votes, and actually believe he is scum.
I will however, lay down

FoS : Glork, Albert

[HungryJoe]

I will furthermore point out that just because a player gives a reason for voting somebody does

NOT

automatically make them less likely to be scum. You seem to be implying the opposite. In fact, I would argue that in a significant percentage of cases, people who throw on supplementary, or additional weak reasons are scumbags who join the wagon, hoping to fan the flames against their victims.

Maybe so, Glork, but as a townie I would find it hard to get on a bandwagon without showing some kind of reasoning. I mean, I haven't been in that many games, but jumping on a BW without a good reason is not exactly pro-town here.

HungryJoe's FoSes of me and Albert seem too OMGUSy for my liking. My vote stands as is.

Take it that way if you like, it was just looking an awful lot like you and Albert were being a little odd to me, didn't seem right, I guess. Albert jumps onto whatever you're saying for little/no reason, and then you reprimand/FoS him. It just kinda looks like a good scum telling a bad scum "No! Get away!", I guess. And you're definitely not voteworthy, it's just something I feel is worth noting for later reference as a bit suspicious.

[HungryJoe]

Also, if I do seem a tad overdefensive (which, upon looking back, I guess I kinda do), it's just me. When I make arguments/defenses, I get a little bit wordy and do my best to be thorough. Can't help it, I just like to try and leave nothing out.

[HungryJoe]

Okay, two parts here:

First, responding to YogurtBandit, cuz I totally missed his questions for me the first look.

dont change what he said Glork. he said he expected you to play well here as town. i dont know why you are defending him, when his obvious intention was to set you up for a lynch tomorrow.
trying to get him off the hook on semantics is a poor show... Rolling Eyes

This is the post that I really went after BM originally for, just because he was pressing a case that was really unfounded. Pressing hard, when it was pretty obvious to me there was no ground unerneath it. I thought that was pretty scummy, so I voted.

lol i seem to be getting more and more games like this. i dont think Albert is anywhere near as scummy as some people here, so i wont wagon him to save myself.
what i will say is, once i am dead, ffs kill Guardian, Glork, and keep a close eye on HungryJoe too.
now hurry up and kill me. i DO hate a dragged out demise...

lol before i die, can somebody explain the scumtell i have committed?
apart from pointing out the logical fallacy of YB, i havent actually said anything. lol
man, id hate to be the remaining protown players, when this happy wagon turns sour Wink

These are the reasons I kept my vote on BM. With a lack of defense and him asking for death baltantly and then insinuating it again, he's just doing a lot of scummy stuff here that I'm not going to ignore.


Part two:

What? I just made a post in which I was trying to say "Albert and Glork look a little bit suspicious here", and you jump onto my boat and vote for Glork?

...what? O_o

[HungryJoe]

Ho hum. I should really be participating more, I suppose, but this argument seems kinda odd to me. I mean, even if I were in a position where I needed to claim to stay alive, why on earth would I want to claim an actual power role? I mean, the chances of townies not lynching you is a bit better, but your death at the hands of mafia is quite nearly assured that night anyways, at that stage. Claiming vanilla, while perhaps the least believable of all claims, is still the way I would see the best survivability in. I mean, then your chances aren't any *worse* for being lynched/NK'd.

I guess I haven't seen enough games to know that, but it seems to me that claiming anything *but* vanilla townie is a good way to assure your own death.

[HungryJoe]

Eh, I'm sorry about this folks, but I don't have enough time for this 4th game right now, I have very little time as it is.

I will be asking for a replacement, sorry for the trouble. =b

[HungryJoe]

Well guys, I'm honestly very busy IRL, mostly because of my finals scrambling. But, I'll be back in about a week more solidly.

On a different note, however, this game is honestly just completely disinteresting me in pretty much every way. I see very little meaningful debate(it's really more like nitpicking, and people accusing people of accusing people for accusing people than anything solid.), and more importantly, this particular game just isn't very much fun. =b

I'll try to be here more often, but I just don't have the time to check that often, even when I don't have finals.

[HungryJoe]

Well, I'm not totally absent, forgive me for not being more active, this is one of the wordier games that I'm in.

Welcome, Y2 and AE! A little late, I know, but still.

I find myself agreeing with HackerHuck about Guardian jumping on and off the BM bandwagon at convenient times, but for the most part, what Guardian's saying isn't coming across as all that scummy to me, just the action. However, in light of:

BM, you are becoming incredibly hard to tolerate in this game. You have attacked me twice for moving off your wagon and looking for more likely scum candidates. There is a point at which being attacking of everyone and unreadable should be sacrificed for realizing that my actions are legitimate attempts at finding scum... You finding it scummy that I acknowledge that you may not be scum... just doesn't make sense to me.

...I mean, I can't really disagree with that either. In the games I'm with BM in, they are increasingly exasperating. Nonetheless, he's still made himself out to be quite scummy in this game, and I'm pretty dang comfortable with my vote on that guy.

As for Y2, something is coming off to me as not quite right here. I'm not sure what, maybe just the support of BM.

Well... I was going to say that I didn't see much of a case on Albert, but going back on it, I guess I do. Nothing but back and forth, with almost no reasoning, wishy-washy with his votes and just in general seeming pretty eager to bandwagon someone, anyone. All in all, doesn't seem too pro-town, I pose. However, from his posts, I still don't get a scum vibe, I really just get a confused/easily swayed and indecisive townie out of it, although that's just the tone, and nothing solid.

[HungryJoe]

HungryJoe--if you think this game is boring (as per post 182), why don't you try spicing it up? Make a case. The best post you made was when you were accused (by Glork). I can see you're absent till tomorrow, but maybe this will help? FoS: Hungry Joe.

Thank you for some spice, AE. =) Sorry about my absences, I'll be getting on more often soon, hopefully. As it is, I have to admit to a couple of major flaws in the game I've been playing here.
1) regarding BM. To take a step back from this particular issue, it took me a bit to realize I really wasn't separating my games with BM in them. My suspicion/hate of his playstyle transferred over here quite fully and tainted my views. On re-reading his posts, I realized this, and was embarrassed of my previous posts that were trying to emphasize me *not* doing this.
Alas, I could not help but be irritated, if not pestered by it. Nonetheless, the vote on him wasn't that fair, and I think someone is a bit more suspicious right now anywho.
Therefore:

Unvote : Battle Mage

2) Regarding my 'boredom' : My miscommunication. I was trying to convey the sense that we were throwing about a lot of theories, but not a lot of gameplay, at least thats what it was feeling like to me. (credit goes to AE for this one, though.)

Lastly: Everyone is just ignoring the TCS vote dealio? It really does seem a bit suspicious to me. He advises others to jump on and have a great time on the Guardianwagon! Yee-hah! However, he does so, admittedly, without any evidence or backing to show for it. Just because. Gut is one thing, but not enough for a vote in my book, although a good enough reason to go looking for a small reason to vote. =)
But not having a reason at all, that just reads to me as scummy here, I guess.

[HungryJoe]

Whoops! With all that talk of TCS, I forgot to do the following:

FoS : TCS

[HungryJoe]

What? Why on earth should it ALWAYS be on someone? Just because we haven't made any mistakes yet, so you don't think that we need to take careful consideration, or what? That doesn't make sense to me.

[HungryJoe]

Well, MBL, I can see where you're coming from on this. I guess I'm a bit cautious and don't really like the thought of voting for very little provocation. Nonetheless, you are probably right about not doing it so that lurkers don't feel that they can do the same. Nonetheless, I don't feel particularly strongly towards anyone being scum in this game for the moment, soo... =)

[HungryJoe]

Why in the world would lurking in another game, where he may have had IRL problems/business, mean ANYTHING AT ALL in a mafia game? Honestly, that's just a pile of BS, Glork. You're really grasping here I think, and that's not cool. That really just doesn't sit well with me.

[HungryJoe]

I agree here with ya, MBL. Not everybody has time to post every hour, yknow? I'm a bit drunk, but I love the mental sparring online here, forgive me. =)

Nonetheless (whether or not you're also calling me stupid), I still think that you are posting more than most of us by far, and that it would take a lot of grasping toi accuse you here.

[HungryJoe]

Yeah, no need to be an ass here, AE. It never hurts to hear from other people who aren't trolling *hint hint*, at least, if you're townie. Let them pile more evidence on themselves, or bring up a point to note. Your opinion is not the only one that matters here, and neither is MoS.

[HungryJoe]

That's nice but

I

consider the whole thing mildly WIFOM. And my response didn't have anything to do with your thoughts on MoS/Billy whoever. It was just the way you're going about it I didn't like. Just because you think someone is or isn't scum isn't a reason to be an ass towards people.

[HungryJoe]

I tend to agree with Yos that lurker hunting is a pro-town tactic, but not as far as lynching someone simply because they lurk. It can be a point against them, surely, but needs evidence still (which is why lurking takes no skill and ruins games, really. No mental war involved here, just not responding. bleh.)

[HungryJoe]

Wow, Glork. That was a pretty big slip of the tongue (or fingers). I would ah, say you might have trouble explaining that one away. =\

[HungryJoe]

I can agree with that, he ruined the townie side of another game(as a townie) I'm in recently, so I think that BM is probably trying to intentionally ruin games.

On the other parts: Glork, I will buy that it was a typo, because it's nothing more than WIFOM, but it's definitely no point in your favor, nonetheless. Just speculation though, and no more, I suppose.

And HH, nice catch on TCS. What worries me more than the catch is that he doesn't seem to care at all that he's contradicting himself? He's been this way all game, I think, but it's kinda disturbing to me, at least.

[HungryJoe]

Actually, I'm still thinking that TCS looks the scummiest to me, really. And the way this thread looks, that's as good as I'm going to get for a suspect.

Ths

Vote: TCS

[HungryJoe]

Aiai. This game moves with a lotta words really fast. O_o

In any case, what was the point of your hypothetical, MBL? It just looks to me like you're trying to trap a couple of guys into making a huge hypothetical argument so that you can pick them apart and tell them they're scummy for answering your question.

All-in-all: It's obviously a trap. Why would a scum jump in, but why would a townie either? It just smells like bad mojo waiting to happen. =b

[HungryJoe]

OMG! This means that he totally *isn't* scum, YB! I'm

so

relieved now. I thought for a second there that he might be, but since he claimed town, I know he's really not guilty.

=) hehe.

[HungryJoe]

Wow. Um, Billy. That's a pretty freakin' awesome post. I think I'm sold on YB being scum here (not like it takes much convincing, the way he's been acting), but unless YB comes up as scum, I'm not sure that Guardian is scum here. He's under a lot of scrutiny, sure, but I don't think he's that unsensible, and while he's obviously something to watch, I still think TCS looks a lot worse than Guardian, really.

Anywho, I'm still quite convinced of YB at this point.

Vote : YogurtBandit

[HungryJoe]

How is it contradictory? At all?

[HungryJoe]

I'm sorry I'm not giving much info here guys, this particular game is moving incredibly fast (although not saying that ain't cool!) and I'm always a bit behind, it would seem. =b

@Yos2: I agree with that, no reasons or explanation of any kind and just a "SO-and-so is town." Is something that makes me grimace. =\

[HungryJoe]

Wait a tick, who's Plessiez? =b

How am I scum just by being swayed by a long and detailed argument against someone whom I already viewed as somewhat scummy? It's a convincing argument, and I'm not the only one swayed by it.

[HungryJoe]

And I honestly can't muster up the will or energy to d a re-read of this game. It's like looking at an apple bin full of paperwork that's due in the morning. XD

Anywho, I still think that YB is my personal favorie candidate for a lynchin', and while I can see some of the cases on Shteven and Albert, I'd say I'm still a bit of a throw away from being sold on all this Guardian voodoo.

[HungryJoe]

MoS has a valid point here, I think. Pretty much anyone can jump onto the Guardianwagon without reproach, but even when a large and thorough argument (reference to Billy) was made, very few people changed or even seemed to notice it. In act, when I was convinced by said argument that YB was the best candidate over my personal thoughts, I was actually attacked for voting a scummy player.

So why is it that everyone's so keen on lynching Guardian, when I see very little of him that's actually been anti-town, and yet YB who's been bandwagon-hopping and opinion-changing like a madman is so far from reproach? I think that the scum is diverting us away from one of their bad scummates, and hopping onto what has been made so convenient for them, if even just by the good intentions of good townie players, such as Glork, for instance. I don't know that he's town, but I do know that his reputation is not unearned, and people know they'll be safe piling evidence against the man that Glork lays his eye on, regardless of what side he's on. =\

But then, call me crazy. Maybe I'm just delusional, hm?

[HungryJoe]

I'm very sorry about my prolonged absence, folks! This is just a quick message saying that I will be here, and posting tonight/tomorrow.

I've had a rough 5 days, and although it doesn't matter what the trouble was, suffice to say it was urgent enough that all other concerns left my mind for the past 5 days.

My apologies to everyone!