NY175: Sycamore Scuffle

[TheAdrienC]

Confirmed

[TheAdrienC]

I was gonna wait til everyone confirmed to make a random vote joke about that post. Lol

[TheAdrienC]

Vote farside22

for putting a third vote during RVS

[TheAdrienC]

I guess Hunterseeker's vote on NM isn't counting?

And, Farside, don't be too quick to judge a book by its cover. Take some time getting to know the person first, I always say.

That right there was the reasoning behind what I was doing, granted I was trying to keep it in the spirit of the RVS. I understand throwing a random vote on someone for that type of pre-game slip. However, I thought starting a bandwagon before we even finished page 2 was a bit excessive.

And why exactly are you telling farside to not be so quick to judge and get some time to know him and then you turn around and do the exact same thing farside did and throw the 3rd/4th vote on Not_Mafia? A little hypocritical, don't you think?

FoS: Wake88

[TheAdrienC]

Dear God, you guys posted a lot while I was writing mine...

[TheAdrienC]

Ah fuck it. I wouldn't hammer yet until we get some more info, but here's my vote.

Unvote
Vote: Wake88

[TheAdrienC]

Wake, you do know your vote is still on Not_Mafia after everything you've posted?

[TheAdrienC]

What's the vote count at the moment?

[TheAdrienC]

@Alinda

Like I initially did with farside, right? I'm one of two people so far to change votes if I recall correctly. The other 19 have either not voted or kept their vote on one person (yourself included). Don't think I'm the person to criticize about not putting more pressure on multiple people with my vote.

I'm putting pressure on him (wake) until he gives me reason not to suspect him. But don't fret as I'm keeping an eye out on other potential scummers. Something else I'm trying to do is figure out who I believe to be town. Process of elimination is a powerful too. I've got my vote on my best scum-read. Is it a 100% scumread? Maybe not that much (more like 70 or something as it is still early), but he's my top candidate so I'm keeping my vote on him for now. When another person I believe is suspect to me pops up, I will put my vote there. For the time being, I want Wake88 to explain himself better or someone to screw up worse before I change my vote.

As for the page count, it was still RVS when farside put up the vote I criticized on page 2. My page 3 vote came when I saw something actually scummy from someone who I believe has a chance to be scum.

I do agree that reinoe's explanation on wake was a bit lacking, but I don't really know what's going on with his V/LA which may have rushed his post. I'm perfectly willing to prod him to get him to explain it more when he returns as he's my second read for the moment.

I don't understand Aegor's post either. Can you explain that better, Aegor?

Anyone else notice there's a lot of people who have yet to post?

[TheAdrienC]

hmm...

Content please?

FoS Boonskiies

. I'm upgrading that to a vote if your next post lacks it.

[TheAdrienC]

FoS Boonskiies

. Tag fail.

[TheAdrienC]

Or until a lynch occurs. Whichever happens first.

[TheAdrienC]

Hot damn I feel sorry for Reinoe. But I'm going to keep a clear head about this as it is a new game and it's not about the person but the role they have.

[TheAdrienC]

To be fair, this is my first time in a game this huge and my first non-newbie game. Not to mention my first game on this site in YEARS.

[TheAdrienC]

FoS = Finger of suspicion.

Basically telling someone that they suspect you without voting, I guess? I think you can find a better explanation on the wiki.

And this is my second game ever, lol. I thought it'd be scary but it's actually not all that bad.

Could've fooled me. You sound confident and like you know what you're talking about.

[TheAdrienC]

I lurked on the site for a couple months and read some games before actually signing up and playing. And trust me, I'm not that confident, lol. My last game my reads were all over the place. I'm hoping I can fix that this game instead of flip-flopping on people every other post. Also, I want to hear more from boon than just "hmm," and I don't feel like voting Soren anymore so

VOTE: Boonskiies

Give thoughts or something please?

Not a bad vote. But I'm a man of my word and I said I would give him one last chance to post something worthwhile before voting him so I'm keeping it.

[TheAdrienC]

He's still my top scumread. Boonskiies is number two, HunterSeeker is a scum lean for me because of this post then disappearing.

Hi I'm mafia

VOTE: Not_Mafia

Thanks for the replies guys. I was super town just from asking that question. At least I 100% townread my self.

[TheAdrienC]

Is that L-4?

[TheAdrienC]

Love the detailed analysis, Burning. So much information. A lot of people are really only posting the bare minimum.

[TheAdrienC]

random.org=13
VOTE: vote Farside

Whoa, whoa, whoa!! What the hell is this?

HoS sharpest

[TheAdrienC]

You'd hammer someone you don't think is scum? Opportunistic much?

[TheAdrienC]

You'd hammer someone you don't think is scum? Opportunistic much?

I come from a different place and a different philosophy of play. I do not agree with the sit and play patty cake strategy here. Some others have at least shared the logic so I understand the perspective a little. Where I come from games are run someone up, get a claim, evaluate, make a decision to either lynch or run someone else up. Dueling run ups are always beneficial imo as well. Granted, where I come from things move much faster. But my policy is my policy. If I think someone is town I probably won't be on the vote but if they get to claiming point, there is need to claim. Patty-cake is weak imo.

While I understand your logic, it doesn't mean I agree with it. Sorry, but I'm gonna remain a bit suspicious of you moving forward until info dictates otherwise.

[TheAdrienC]

Scum or not, Sharp, your actions and posts are anti-town. You have to see that.

[TheAdrienC]

Dude, what you are doing is NOT helping the town no matter how much you think it is. Let me repeat that...NOT...HELPING...THE TOWN!! Now both of you need to get the votes off each other and start lynching scum and not people you hate for other reasons. Because we are NOT going to win if you two keep this up. Understood?

[TheAdrienC]

Thank you. Fuck!

[TheAdrienC]

I've listed a few of my top scumreads. You want to share your reads aside from Wake and SKOT, Sal

[TheAdrienC]

Mod, SKOT took his vote off Aegor.

[TheAdrienC]

Never mind, I saw the vote count reversed. Please ignore me.

[TheAdrienC]

How is a player ordering/pressuring somebody (twice) to vote for someone

not

manipulative?

It depends on how the person being voted flips. If he's pushing for a lynch on someone who turns up scum, I don't think it's manipulative at all. He's trying to rally the troops in that instance. If he ends up flipping town, okay, that looks pretty manipulative.

Although Wake hasn't responded in awhile since a lot of the later votes were put on him. This is why my vote remains on him.

[TheAdrienC]

And it looks like wake is scum

Funnily enough, I'm not suspicious of him. And you forgot to sign you post >.<

Well, yeah, I'm still reaction testing.

I'm gonna milk this cow for all it's worth.

Moocows.

Love the detailed analysis, Burning. So much information. A lot of people are really only posting the bare minimum.

Yeah, reasons are for the other guy

I think wake is scum because the hypocrisy and fluff in his opening was terrible. I didn't vote him because he's at L-3. Where I have my mafia roots, L-2 is claim time! Also I'm very paranoid!

Alina just oozes new town

Skot, probtown

-B_E

SKOT isn't the smartest branch on the tree but I agree that he is probably town.
I actually feel that Wake is town, he did help to move things out of RVS after all, even if it was at his own expense.

Wake's intro is kinda out there. But it seems in character for me.

I'm more interested in the people on his wagon, BP's vote was purely oppertunistic, also Scarab slipped on there in the butter zone as soon as it looked like other people were interested.

Vote: Scarab

You are literally voting me for not sitting at my keyboard refreshing this game. I voted wake

18 minutes after his post

because that's when I saw it. This post of yours is just absolutely blatant opportunism. You acknowledge that there's something off with wake's intro post, then discredit its potential scumminess due to meta that other players may or may not have (hint: I've never read a game that had wake in it), then call people scummy for voting him for that post straight out of the RVS? Yeah, sure.

Unvote: Wake88

Vote: Mirhawk

Wake may or may not be scum, but this guy almost certainly is.

I doubt Wake is scum, I know he knows how to fly under the radar. Also, this is a Large Normal.

VOTE: reinoe

You ought to post more. Talk to me. Who are your top town reads and who are you most suspicious of, besides Wake?

p-edit: What do you mean, HunterSeeker?

~tn5421

Did you vote for someone who is on V/LA for not posting enough? Or change your vote midpost?

[TheAdrienC]

My top townread is Alina at the moment. Despite his anger and my annoyance at him, I'm pretty sure Aegor is town too. Slightly lesser town reads of mine are farside and not_mafia.

My other scumreads not named Wake are HunterSeeker and boonskiies. Both of them have posted and been online but have not contributed at all or helped us scumhunt. Everyone else I see is pretty null at the moment.

[TheAdrienC]

Was just answering tn's question, farside.

[TheAdrienC]

If you truly believe that he is manipulating the town, why aren't you voting for him? Show some backbone. Personally, I believe it was a request than a demand.

[TheAdrienC]

Was just answering tn's question, farside.

*smacks TN* bad hydra.

If you truly believe that he is manipulating the town, why aren't you voting for him? Show some backbone. Personally, I believe it was a request than a demand.

Humor me for a moment.

Vote for clusk.








Does that sound like I'm manipulating you?

Sounds like you're just requesting I do it. Not really forcing me to.

[TheAdrienC]

I've been reading from my phone at work. I'll post some analysis when I get home and have access to my laptop. I'm not even gonna try to pull a BP.

[TheAdrienC]

I'll try to be as concise as possible on each of these responses. (P-edit, I actually started writing this right before Sal's post about me but there were some posts about me including Sal's there and after so I've kept adding on afterwards).

Big block of words from 234

Half of what you said is honestly just repetition of what you have said before. What did your responses to Clusk or Farside contribute to what we have already discussed? I agree that Aegor's post needs a lot of explanation but several other people beat you to the punch (though I did enjoy the image you posted). I mean, in the end, how many people have you accused of being scum? The reason I don't trust you is that you clearly said you truly believed the person your vote on is town. So why is your vote on him, even if it is the only one? Our job is to vote off scum, in the end. With all the people you've accused of be scum, including me, wouldn't your vote be better cast on one of them? Hell, a vote on ME would should you're at least trying to follow through with your read. I'd call that more useful than voting someone you said is town. That is why my vote remained on you for so long. You know the scum are working together. What does the town need to do to respond? Work together as best they can. What are you doing? Disrupting any synchronization the town which is what a good scum should do.

Block of words that contained responses to me from 266

I'm glad I've finally got to read this post on something other than an iPhone to give it the proper attention it deserves since you finally responded to what I laid out on you. And yes, I do find it hypocritical to attack someone for doing one thing and then turning around and doing the exact same thing. That is the very definition of the word.

hyp·o·crite [hip-uh-krit]
a person who feigns some desirable or publicly approved attitude, especially one whose private life, opinions, or statements belie his or her public statements.

Your initial post reeked of that. And you know what, your response said that my FoS (which lead to my vote after you posted a few more times and the hypocrisy and backtracking bothered me even more) was warranted. Glad you saw my point of view. ...Let's see, accusations at farside, Salamance, reino, Aegor, Scarabs, Clusk...which goes back to the "attacking almost everyone" that some have pointed out. You asked me about what I felt about Alina's 91, which the short version is she did word it a bit better than I did, but I want to wait until reino gets back before doing anything about that. But I assure you, I will, as I assume a lot of you also will.

That being said, your vote will be removed by the end of this post. But I'm keeping my eye on you and you're not immune to having it put back on you.

Oh boy, quote wall time (Starting at my post #58)

FoS: Wake88

Glad to see people use FOS still, but this is pretty weak. A vote would have been better.

Ah fuck it. I wouldn't hammer yet until we get some more info, but here's my vote.

Unvote
Vote: Wake88

And see, this is why I don't like Adrien, especially when Wake flips scum. This is what we like to call bussing, for all those that are new to this game. Also we are NOWHERE near hammer, so why bring it up?

A vote would have been better. Guess what I decided to do only 7 posts later (8 minutes later too) after it sunk in and I saw more nonsense I disagreed with. I voted. Don't tell me you think I should do one thing and then attack me for actually doing it. You were pushing for Wake's lynch just as hard I was. And you don't like me for that post? Is it because it looks a lot like this one?

Interesting. NM's paranoia here raises him a bit into the Townie list.

VOTE: wake

RVS over. Serious vote.

You're accusing me of bussing now? It was vote 5 of 11. I wanted to put pressure on him to get him to explain his actions a lot better than he did in the previous posts. That's why I didn't want him completely lynched til he had that opportunity, yet you believed I was bussing him, not to mention that we are all speculating and none of us (except for a select few I'm not a part of) know his alignment for sure. But all in all, don't knock me for making very similar actions if you have. Like me or not, we need to work together to lynch scum.

The rest of your post is just yelling scum at me. Nice argument.

Looking at the vote count, actually, I was the only vote on Boon. There was Adrien's FoS, but I don't believe there was ever a second vote? I might be blind though.

I share your concerns with Adrien, actually; I think it's worth noting that it seemed like he was trying to buddy up to me after I first questioned him, possibly in an attempt to lower my suspicions of him via the power of friendship or something.

I agreed with you on about two of my posts and it was buddying up. I think there was more of an interaction between me and farside than me and you. Do I believe you to be town? A bit more than anyone else. Am I trying to be your friend? Not right now. Friends between anyone here are for after this game is over. I just agreed with you. I've agreed with a few people this game. And don't worry about boon because my last section is...

hmm...

Content please?

FoS Boonskiies

. I'm upgrading that to a vote if your next post lacks it.

I swore I would be voting for you if you didn't post anything meaningful on your next post. So what was your next post?

[quote="In post 259

@Boonskiies, @BroodKingEXE, @Aeronaut

: Post.

Sup[/quote]

Unvote
Vote: boonskiies

You've got eight posts, six since the game began (nine/seven while I was writing this final section). Not one lick of content in any of it. Not one opinion. And I know you were there for at least the big wake situation because your "hmm..." was dead smack in the middle. You were posting just to post. To help lie low and keep your head down, something I would expect from a newbie scum.

[TheAdrienC]

The bickering really aggravated me. That was me lashing out and asking those two to grow up.

[TheAdrienC]

I'm not talking about your post count. I'm talking about the lack of content in them.

[TheAdrienC]

Alright then, Clusk/Adrien are my scum reads. I don't actually feel that Wake is scum, he just is a scummy guy in general. Don't get all semantic-y on me. Acting scummy and being scum are two entirely different things. Don't be ignorant.

Yeah, clusk basically just repeats everything in question form, states the other person's opinion, or gives an obvious piece of advice. It's his scum style. He's scum.

Adrien is just voting people with weak cases

, generally scummy as well, and the vote on me. really? just to scare a person. Wants me to give reads on a thread I obviously haven't kept up on. Please. And the fact, they haven't really engaged with each other at all, besides once when Adrien gave Clusk a tip/answered Clusk's question. And when someone tried getting a case against Clusk to Adrien, he completely shrugged it off as if it were nothing without even humoring the idea.

I'll vote for either.

Can you show me evidence for the italics? My farside vote was during RVS. My Wake vote, I posted many, many posts about why my vote was there and the case wasn't weak enough for it to reach L-4 at one point. And my vote on you was something I promised I would do so pardon me for following through. Because what kind of player is going to post a lot of weak posts with no actual content just to make sure he's posting and not being prodded by the mod? Scum lurking. That's my read and two other people agree with me, which includes people who didn't really agree with my Wake vote.

As for me and Clusk, I don't feel strongly either way about him. He's a null read as I've seen things I've liked and things I didn't like from him. If you want me to do an analysis on clusk showing both what I like and don't like, I can.

[TheAdrienC]

vote sala...

You wanna explain that vote any?

[TheAdrienC]

@BP

Post 123 was me agreeing with someone. I do that from time to time. 143 was a sarcastic remark. 149 was no worse than anyone else's reaction to sharp's idiotic vote.

And yeah, I'm a bit weird. Kinda what makes me the person I am.

[TheAdrienC]

What the hell? What did you accomplish by claiming? Even if he isn't using a day kill, you just revealed your role for the mafia to see!

[TheAdrienC]

I do tend to not think things out fully when I get pissy...

You should considering changing that if you're gonna be playing mafia.

[TheAdrienC]

I feel uncomfortable anytime someone throws out that J word. Makes everyone uncomfortable doing a lynch.

[TheAdrienC]

What's wrong with being weird? I'd rather be weird than what everyone likes to call normal.

[TheAdrienC]

Could you do something other than making non-game related insults at most of the players?

[TheAdrienC]

I think the following links are appropriate for this thread and day phase at the moment.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... t_Charisma
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=12228

[TheAdrienC]

Don't do anything stupid, Scarab.

[TheAdrienC]

You people? Who else is that directed at?

[TheAdrienC]

Yeah...he's gonna end up modkilled...

[TheAdrienC]

and fuck it that may be a gambit but if you did kill me you just off a tracker... and if a gambit you just exposed me. Congrats. Moron.

Does anyone else notice he doesn't say "town" or "town-aligned" tracker, he just says tracker?

[TheAdrienC]

Alina made something simple for me to copy and paste to give my reads so far.

1. Sharpest-knife-on-tree = Leaning slightly scum. Probably the person I'm most on the fence with
2. Salamence20 = Leaning town
3. Alina = Leaning town
4. reinoe = Need more info
5. Wake88 = Strongly leading scum
6. Burning_TowN = Mixed based on which hydra head it is
7. shaddowez = Need more info
8. Damon_Gant = NMI
9. Mirhawk = NMI
10. Not_Mafia = Pretty sure he's town
11. Aegor = Leaning town.
12. Scarab = On the fence, leaning very slightly town
13. farside22 = Leaning town
14. Boonskiies = Strongly leaning scum.
15. BroodKingEXE = NMI
16. Soren = NMI
17. Aeronaut = NMI
18. HunterSeeker = NMI, though what I've seen, slightly leaning scum
19. Clusk92 = On the fence about, maybe barely leaning scum, but he could totally be town too
20. BP = Rude

Granted, these are Day 1 reads. Day 1 reads are usually going to be scratched out and replaced with newer reads.

[TheAdrienC]

I'm town.

Well since you put it that way...read stays same.

[TheAdrienC]

Scum read count:
Boonskiies: 3 (Aegor, BurningTown, Me)
Scarab: 5 (Not Mafia, BurningTown, Alina, farside, BP)
Me: 2 (Alina, Sal)
Clusk: 2 (Alina, farside, BP)
BP: 1 (farside)
SKOT: 2 (Me, Sal)
Wake: 3 (Me, Sal, BP)
Farside: 1 (BP)

We're not agree much. And most of the people stating Scarab (who has the highest with five) aren't even pushing for him to be the lynch.

[TheAdrienC]

You forgot Scarab also thinks me and Mirhawk are scumbuds.

I must have missed that post. That brings you to two and Mirhawk to one. Still makes the list a mess.

[TheAdrienC]

Hey we are not letting the scums coast to victory here are we. Let's push on some of the lurkers here.

Kettle. Black.

[TheAdrienC]

^ "The part of the problem." As you can see my brain is running at full power.

You. Sleep. Game will be around when you wake up.

[TheAdrienC]

I didn't forget. I still have my vote on Boonskiies.

[TheAdrienC]

Which makes Boon up to 4 scumreads on him and Scarab with 6. Seems like we can possible agree to lynch one of them.

[TheAdrienC]

I listed him as "Need more information, but leaning scum on him". Anyone I said leaning scum on, I am willing to lynch.

[TheAdrienC]

Let's see if this gets him talking more.

Vote HunterSeeker

But I'm not done with you, Boonskiies.

P-Edit: Must have missed his post. But he helps boost that Scarab and Boon are the most likely to be lynched at the moment.

[TheAdrienC]

Sleep deprivation at it's best.

[TheAdrienC]

@Mod

, vote count?

[TheAdrienC]

I'm listening. I'm just taking your reasoning with a grain of salt.

[TheAdrienC]

So you decided you're gonna OMGUS vote and not attempt to scumhunt at all...even selfvoted? Tell me what you would do and what you would think if you saw someone doing that, Boon?

[TheAdrienC]

Fake posts? Care to explain how my posts are fake?

[TheAdrienC]

I know I had a town read on Salamance, but scumbuddies?

[TheAdrienC]

interesting shift...

Hi! While you're online, would you like to give us reads?

[TheAdrienC]

I'm really close to putting my vote back on him. I asked you a question about your evidence against me. You ignored it and are now backtracking it saying you think I just give off a scummy-vibe like you do. Answer me, Boon.

[TheAdrienC]

Explain yourself, Adrien. 578 has you saying you're listening but taking my reasoning with a grain of salt. Yeah. OK. Why? Walk us through this for us all why don't you? Hey, don't look at me like that. You're the one who made the comment, so you might as well explain the thought behind it.

Basically what I'm saying is that I'm reading everything you're saying, but I don't trust you. You're still one of my top scumreads. That's why I'm saying I'm taking everything you say with a grain of salt. I'm taking your word as someone who may be an enemy or may not be any enemy. Until I figure out you're on the same side as I am or not (which is that of the town), then I'm going to be very cautious with you. Sound fair?

[TheAdrienC]

I think Sal is honestly just a paranoid townie acting a bit like a VI, at the moment. I could be wrong. I am a bit irritated that every other post he posts, he's calling me fake, which sounds more like a personal shot and insult at me.

What I don't understand is that I held my vote on Wake longer than a lot of other people on this list, listed you high on my scumreads list and I'm still willing to lynch you if that's the way the town wants to go, yet everyone is trying to couple me with you as a scumbuddy. I'm not your scumbuddy. I'm not anybody's scumbuddy. I'm doing my part to try to help us, the town, win by lynching scum.

As for your thoughts on your larger posts, I'll do an ISO on you and give you a summary. Off work today so I'll spend a bit of time doing it.

[TheAdrienC]

My thoughts on your larger posts. Apparently my brain needs more caffeine to function properly.

[TheAdrienC]

I think Sal is honestly just a paranoid townie acting a bit like a VI, at the moment. I could be wrong. I am a bit irritated that every other post he posts, he's calling me fake, which sounds more like a personal shot and insult at me.

What I don't understand is that I held my vote on Wake longer than a lot of other people on this list, listed you high on my scumreads list and I'm still willing to lynch you if that's the way the town wants to go, yet everyone is trying to couple me with you as a scumbuddy. I'm not your scumbuddy. I'm not anybody's scumbuddy. I'm doing my part to try to help us, the town, win by lynching scum.

As for your thoughts on your larger posts, I'll do an ISO on you and give you a summary. Off work today so I'll spend a bit of time doing it.

first of all, this isnt personal, nor a shot at your intelligence.

Secondly, you are fake because you didnt vote wake UNTIL A WAGON FORMED BY ME.

But hey, nice jab by calling me a VI to discredit me. Cool job

Roughly half your posts were three lines or less saying "LYNCH <NAME>!! HE'S SCUM!!" and repeating yourself a lot. If the shoe fits...

[TheAdrienC]

Because everything you say is FAKE AS SHIT

DEFINE FUCKING FAKE, FOR CRYING OUT FUCKING LOUD AND STOP FUCKING REPEATING YOURSELF!!! WHAT THE FUCK MAKES MY POSTS FAKE?! BECAUSE I HAVE PUT MY HONEST TO GOD OPINION ON EVERY SINGLE FUCKING POST THAT I HAVE FUCKING DONE EVERY SINCE I STARTED THIS FUCKING GAME1 SO EXPLAIN TO ME HOW THE FUCK MY POSTS ARE FAKE IN SPECIFIC FUCKING DETAIL OR SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT IT!!

Fucking dumbass!

[TheAdrienC]

That was my honest reaction to the bullshit random post Sharpest-Knife posted. Quit posting my shit out of context.

Wake, give me a moment to cool off, but I promise you the answers you want when I do.

[TheAdrienC]

Okay let's all tone it down a bit with the caps-rage-lotta-swears posts.

For the sake of this post, I'm going to try to clean up and keep things lower case. But just know that as I started writing this, it looked like my quote right below this one.

Because everything you say is FAKE AS SHIT

DEFINE FUCKING FAKE, FOR CRYING OUT FUCKING LOUD AND STOP FUCKING REPEATING YOURSELF!!! WHAT THE FUCK MAKES MY POSTS FAKE?! BECAUSE I HAVE PUT MY HONEST TO GOD OPINION ON EVERY SINGLE FUCKING POST THAT I HAVE FUCKING DONE EVERY SINCE I STARTED THIS FUCKING GAME1 SO EXPLAIN TO ME HOW THE FUCK MY POSTS ARE FAKE IN SPECIFIC FUCKING DETAIL OR SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT IT!!

Fucking dumbass!

DONT YOU EVEN FUCKING TRY ME WITH THE FAKE RANT RANTING BULLSHIT. YOU HAVE BEEN FAKE ALL FUCKING DAY. YOU FOSED WAKE WHEN PEOPLE THOUGHT HE WAS ODD BUT WHEN A REAL WAGONED FORMED YOU DECIDED JUST FUCKING THEN TO VOTE WAKE BECAUSE YOU NEEDED TOWN FUCKING CREDIT WHEN HE GOT LYNCHED BUT YOU GOT FUCKING LUCKY THERE WASNT ENOUGH PEOPLE TO LYNCH WAKE. AFTER THAT YOU ARE TRYING TO ACT LIKE THE FUCKING VOICE OF REASON AND LOOK GOOD FOR YOUR BUDDY. EVERYTHING HAS BEEN FAKE AND THE ONLY REASON THIS HAPPENING IS BECAUSE WAKE HASNT FLIPPED SCUM YET. AND FUCK YOUR OPINION SINCE YOU DIDNT FUCKING VOTE WAKE IN THE FIRST PLACE YOU FAKE ASS BITCH

WHEN WAKE FLIPS SCUM YOU DIE. NO FUCKING DEBATE. DIE DIE DIE

PEDIT: AGAIN FAKE TOWNIE POSTING AT BEST.

I will rant at you as well as I damn please because I have already addressed the FoS/Vote situation in a previous vote the first time you brought it up (A little lower for that quote). And you have to excuse me if I can't make any post whatsoever on this thread without you replying "Huhuhu, Adrien's fake, y'all!" and get a little pissed of about it (which me being pissed is a very rare but very scary occurrence). And excuse me if I give off a bit of a "voice of reason" vibe because as the levelheaded person around a group of impulsive family members and friends, it tends to be part of my personality. To insult that is to insult me personally.

My issue is that we don't know Wake's alignment, we don't know your alignment, and everybody except me has no knowledge of my alignment. Yet for about the last 10 pages, you have completely tunnel-visioned yourself on me and kept targeting me in pretty much everything you've posted without asking questions nor answering mine. No discussion. Just "Adrien is scum and fake, hehehe".

Oh boy, quote wall time (Starting at my post #58)

FoS: Wake88

Glad to see people use FOS still, but this is pretty weak. A vote would have been better.

Ah fuck it. I wouldn't hammer yet until we get some more info, but here's my vote.

Unvote
Vote: Wake88

And see, this is why I don't like Adrien, especially when Wake flips scum. This is what we like to call bussing, for all those that are new to this game. Also we are NOWHERE near hammer, so why bring it up?

A vote would have been better. Guess what I decided to do only 7 posts later (8 minutes later too) after it sunk in and I saw more nonsense I disagreed with. I voted. Don't tell me you think I should do one thing and then attack me for actually doing it. You were pushing for Wake's lynch just as hard I was. And you don't like me for that post? Is it because it looks a lot like this one?

Interesting. NM's paranoia here raises him a bit into the Townie list.

VOTE: wake

RVS over. Serious vote.

You're accusing me of bussing now? It was vote 5 of 11. I wanted to put pressure on him to get him to explain his actions a lot better than he did in the previous posts. That's why I didn't want him completely lynched til he had that opportunity, yet you believed I was bussing him, not to mention that we are all speculating and none of us (except for a select few I'm not a part of) know his alignment for sure. But all in all, don't knock me for making very similar actions if you have. Like me or not, we need to work together to lynch scum.

The rest of your post is just yelling scum at me. Nice argument.

Yeah, that argument look familiar? It's what I posted all the way back on page 12 in response to what you are claiming now to be "my fakeness". And you know what? You never responded to that. You never asked any follow-up questions, you never answered my question about how my vote didn't look all that different from yours. In fact, your very next post was this very enlightening gem.

Who me? No.

Plz tell me, though that Adrian is bad and Boonsikes is VI.

But let's talk more about my FoS to Vote. You called it "me switching to a vote because I was bussing my scumbuddy". Anyone happen to know how many votes were added on Wake between my FoS and Vote? Anyone want to guess? ZERO. Please refer to page 3 for confirmation, I'll give you a minute. What made me switch my FoS to a vote was when he started calling his caught hypocrisy (which is what earned my FoS) to trying to do "reaction tests", which was something we all called BS. After Wake posted this...

Checking reactions.

AND STILL HAD his vote on NM, that's when I decided he was worth my vote. If I was scum and was just going to bus just because there was starting to have a wagon develop on him, I would have done so

on my first post

. But neither of those "if" statements are true, I was voting for who I believed (and to a point, still do) was the best option for US THE TOWN to lynch.

And you know what, I'm pissed off enough for me to do this...

Unvote
Vote: Salamence20

Because I'm looking at your ISO and you've stopped scumhunting. You're just satisfied on your reads from over ten pages ago and just want to string up someone already. Forget that new information has come since page 14. You don't care. You just want to lynch someone you've had a hard-on to lynch and move on with a day. Updating your reads to new information? Naw, I'm just gonna start shooting down people and hope my first instinct was right, forget that it was early day one when I got my current reads...trying to look for stuff past that is for fake people. /sarcasm

Is a lynch on you during this day phase likely? Probably not. And you know what, I hope to GOD you waste your mafia/vig night kill or your inspection or roleblocking or whatever the hell power you have during the night because if you try that crap on Night 1 with me, you're wasting a night. Did I just breadcrumb my role? I don't even care. I just want you to get off your high horse and realize "Oh, I might have been wrong" because those are the mafia players who sicken me: those who can't admit they might actually be wrong. It's Day One. We know absolutely nothing at this point unless we have a day inspector which I don't see happening in a normal game.

[TheAdrienC]

Yeah, I was expecting you to do that. And I don't even care anymore. Do your worst, Salamence. You're not winning this round with me. You're not a Mafia God.

[TheAdrienC]

I don't know nor care if you have some sort of night role or not. I really don't. And when I said "Mafia God", I was referring to the game in general. Guilty conscious, much? And I'm not replacing out. Because I know I'm right. Like I said, you're not winning this round with me.

[TheAdrienC]

How the hell could I know something? Ever heard of a day-role cop in a normal game. I repeat because apparently you need a lot of repetition for things to sink it: I do not know nor do I care if you have a night role. I just hope you waste it on me if you do because I want to see karma bite you in the ass.

[TheAdrienC]

I breadcrumbed my role.

[TheAdrienC]

You want a claim. Town aligned Commuter.

[TheAdrienC]

Fuck you, Salamence.

[TheAdrienC]

Good luck catching up, Juls.

[TheAdrienC]

Unvote

[TheAdrienC]

FTR I'm at work right now so srs reading and posting will probably be waiting a bit until tonight, but if somebody wants to give an objective summary of the game that's cool too.

Based on how high tension are between a lot of people, I'm not sure anyone can really give a good objective summary aside from maybe a few. It's been a long Day One post-wise. Take your time.

[TheAdrienC]

28 pages is actually really short for a day one given I'm a survivor of FE:A and NY169 and ran Tales, but sure.

Ah, never mind then. Go for it, dude.

[TheAdrienC]

I'm gonna do some ISOs and PbPA on Wake (I'm hoping this will answer his questions of why I'm suspicious of him) and a couple of others that strike my attention.

[TheAdrienC]

NOW IM DONE WITH YOU. YOU CAN STILL FUCK OFF AND SHEEP ME THOUGH.

VOTE: Wake

Wtf? Please explain why you provoked a newb to claim?

Well CABD will have to answer. Clearly though I am not the only one to get pissed off and react to someone else's nonsense...

New player gets fresh slate, in my opinion.

[TheAdrienC]

NOW IM DONE WITH YOU. YOU CAN STILL FUCK OFF AND SHEEP ME THOUGH.

VOTE: Wake

Wtf? Please explain why you provoked a newb to claim?

Well CABD will have to answer. Clearly though I am not the only one to get pissed off and react to someone else's nonsense...

New player gets fresh slate, in my opinion.

Why? Players replacing for each other still have the same role PM.

How are you supposed to know what was going through Salamence's head when he posted a lot of what he said to me? You have the same role PM but not the same mindset. Your actions and postd will tell me what I need to know about you. Keep in mind that in one of my posts, I did say Salamence was behaving, in what I thought was a leaning town VI. After I start reading you, I'll re-evaluate what your alignment is.

[TheAdrienC]

So many people misspelling my name...if it's easier, you guys can just call me Ade. I would have told you that was an acceptable nickname if I had a chance to do an introduction post.

[TheAdrienC]

ISO ON WAKE88

I previously went over my thoughts on a couple of your posts in my 287 post.

I'll try to be as concise as possible on each of these responses. (P-edit, I actually started writing this right before Sal's post about me but there were some posts about me including Sal's there and after so I've kept adding on afterwards).

Big block of words from 234

Half of what you said is honestly just repetition of what you have said before. What did your responses to Clusk or Farside contribute to what we have already discussed? I agree that Aegor's post needs a lot of explanation but several other people beat you to the punch (though I did enjoy the image you posted). I mean, in the end, how many people have you accused of being scum? The reason I don't trust you is that you clearly said you truly believed the person your vote on is town. So why is your vote on him, even if it is the only one? Our job is to vote off scum, in the end. With all the people you've accused of be scum, including me, wouldn't your vote be better cast on one of them? Hell, a vote on ME would should you're at least trying to follow through with your read. I'd call that more useful than voting someone you said is town. That is why my vote remained on you for so long. You know the scum are working together. What does the town need to do to respond? Work together as best they can. What are you doing? Disrupting any synchronization the town which is what a good scum should do.

Block of words that contained responses to me from 266

I'm glad I've finally got to read this post on something other than an iPhone to give it the proper attention it deserves since you finally responded to what I laid out on you. And yes, I do find it hypocritical to attack someone for doing one thing and then turning around and doing the exact same thing. That is the very definition of the word.

hyp·o·crite [hip-uh-krit]
a person who feigns some desirable or publicly approved attitude, especially one whose private life, opinions, or statements belie his or her public statements.

Your initial post reeked of that. And you know what, your response said that my FoS (which lead to my vote after you posted a few more times and the hypocrisy and backtracking bothered me even more) was warranted. Glad you saw my point of view. ...Let's see, accusations at farside, Salamance, reino, Aegor, Scarabs, Clusk...which goes back to the "attacking almost everyone" that some have pointed out. You asked me about what I felt about Alina's 91, which the short version is she did word it a bit better than I did, but I want to wait until reino gets back before doing anything about that. But I assure you, I will, as I assume a lot of you also will.

That being said, your vote will be removed by the end of this post. But I'm keeping my eye on you and you're not immune to having it put back on you.

Now on to the other stuff you have posted. This is a tidbit from your intro post at 50 that caused the initial uproar.

Let's put some on this little nut for his maybe-slip: VOTE: Not-Mafia.

Now, Scarab, why exactly are you voting NM? He may be a nut, and an innocent one at that, so why be such a hardass on him? Probably capitalizing on the gaffe, eh?

FoS: Scarab

.

I selected a section of that post here and bolded something I thought was interesting. We (or maybe it was just me) were focusing on the Farside FoS but you also contradicted yourself on the next line after your vote when you mentioned Scarab was being a hardass for voting NM when the very previous line, you did the exact same thing Scarab was doing. The Farside contradiction was the only one I initially caught, but reviewing it again, I notice the Scarab part as well and makes me a bit more distrustful of you.

And then there was this...

Interesting. NM's paranoia here raises him a bit into the Townie list.

I made the decision to throw an FoS your way after this because I wanted an explanation why you thought he was a townie but kept your vote on him. I upgraded it to a vote when your response was...

Checking reactions.

I felt like this was you trying to cover up what your slip-up of still voting for him. You're next few posts is just reiterating that you were wanting reactions and asked a few questions to a few of the other players (some questions did make sense to ask such as your post 70 prodding NM's post 65...which it was appeal to an unknown authority), I'll give you that.

Post 234 which I initially responded to above. One thing that didn't occur to me at the time was you saying you know Aegor is clever and capable of better than that. Which poses a couple of questions for me: how familiar are you with Aegor's meta and how is he falling in line with that meta at the moment? Your quoted post was of him voting for you and only stating "For obvious reasons" in his explanation for his vote followed by his speculation the scum would wagon reinoe for some reason (something that still doesn't make sense to me). How does those actions follow his meta as well as his later actions?

Post 248 promised a Reads list. I dunno if I'm overlooking it or if your 266 was supposed to count as that, but I would like to see your reads list and am a bit suspicious we were promised this without it coming up.

I responded to everything you laid out for me in post 266 but here are some details I didn't get into.

Farside, in 67 you ask how NM's paranoia was paranoia. The way he responded by mentioning that my vote and FoS were over the exact same thing felt like a Townish thing, an action of vigilance borne of paranoia. From my perspective he actually called part of my initial post "fluff," and insinuated that I could be trying to look like I'm contributing. Knowing the truth from where I stand, that sentiment does indeed feel paranoid. This is furthered by him stating that I pretty much called everyone who posted—sans "/confirm"—Scum. A reach, it would appear, possibly backed by paranoia. In that same post I don't understand your comment about me either joking because of my previous post, and/or calling it an omgus. Would you clarify that bit, please?

I thought this was a pretty fair question to ask on farside's part, and it did make me understand why you thought NM was indeed town (the part I was concerned about was that you thought that and your vote was on him). But there is one thing that makes me feel off about you defending the sense of paranoia was the fact it was something you were accused of in a few votes, specifically set-up speculation and multi-ball paranoia (something I do feel like scum would be more worried about than town this early on and I think someone else mentioned that, either farside or reinoe So since you seem more experienced than me, here's some questions: Is there a time where paranoia is a town trait and is there a time where paranoia is a scum trait? Is showing signs of paranoia a reliable tell at either alignment? My read on NM is still pretty strongly town, but I want to know your opinion on this as a whole so compare some other cases of paranoia we have seen in this day phase and maybe help us dot a few i's and cross a few t's.

Another thing is that you never really addressed some of the latter things in my response to this post, more specifically, how the town needs to work together in order to lynch the scum because we all know the scum is working together to disrupt how well we are working together. I feel like most of your posts is stirring more distrust amongst everyone than a sense of working together to find out who we can trust and who we can't trust. Maybe this is just a difference in ideology but what is your take on that opinion (and this is an open question than any of the other 19 of you are allowed to answer). Wouldn't scum be more likely to make everyone distrustful of everyone in the game?

I'm going to post two related quotes:

Boon is obvtown, knock it off.

I'd like to know what exactly makes him obvtown to you.

If people don't agree with you then should can and will simply disregard your noise.

No one is above inquiry, and you'll not be shielding anyone from suspicion here.

I want to know exactly why you think he's obvtown when he isn't, and why you feel the need to try and put yourself between him and other players.

Like hell you're obvtown, Boonskies. What you are is impotent. 301: "Oh myyyy, they're voting meeee.... I guess I should vote myselffff... waaah..." Do not make excuses in my presence, Boonskies. You'll get no sympathy from me. I get none in general, and I expect you and everyone else not to, either. Have a spine and show an interest in the game, yeah? You've done NOTHING to be obvtown. All you've done is whine about how incompetent and Scummy you are. Newsflash: That's not being Townish. That's called being a Weenie. Show you've got some damned spirit and actually

question

people for once, why don't you?

Both times, you were sniffing at boonskiies's ankles and never really put any pressure on him outside of calling him a weenie and said he's not obvtown. What is your read on him? What were your thoughts on his reactions, the OMGUS votes and selfvoting, as possible reactions as a townie or a scum? What were your thoughts about the votes on him at the time, now, and do you see him as a lynch possibility?

Don't overdo it guys. You're not

that

convincing.

I was pissed and that kind of reaction from me is not the norm from me, no matter my alignment. I lost my cool, but I am wondering what you were expecting me (and Salamence) to be convincing of what.

In summary, I'm still distrustful of you a bit and hope your answers to some of these questions can give me a bit more of your mindset and maybe help me decide on my read on you. I feel you to be a bit forceful with the questions you ask (kinda a null tell as I've seen town and scum do that), and you do seem to ask for opinions on your own posts, which makes me believe you're trying to gauge how high you are on their scum lists (I feel this is slightly scummy as it could be a way to scout who your nightkill should be, but I could be wrong). The one thing I really want from you is a reads list like you said you would give us a long time ago.

Judgement: Willing to lynch

I'm going to read over boonskiies and Clusk's next.

[TheAdrienC]

That is a huge change from what the person you replaced thought of me.

[TheAdrienC]

ISO ON BOONSKIIES

This one won't be nearly as long. Once the game started, let me show you the first few posts from our good friend here (even his first was after the Wake drama).

hmm...

[quote="In post 259

@Boonskiies, @BroodKingEXE, @Aeronaut

: Post.

Sup[/quote]

I did post.

Going to night kill me if I don't?

The last two were in response to Aegor saying "POST OR DIE!" What does everyone notice about these posts? They have no content in them. No scumhunting. No "meaningful" questions. No votes, no reads, no partaking in the ongoing discussions. He was just there, looking at the thread and posting to make sure he isn't prodded. He finally makes a vote on his next post...

OMGUS
VOTE: Aegor

@Alina - I've read like the first four pages, and plan on reading the rest when I get to my computer. I fell too far behind, and hadn't had time to do any actual in-depth reading. But tonight, I'll catch up.

This was his response to Aegor's vote. He even admits OMGUS. He claims he hadn't read what happened, but seemed to magically pop up as soon as his name was said. I don't believe in coincidences like that, I'm sorry.

Will do.

His answer to Alina about what his reads were on me and Wake. After I was sick of him posting and not putting any effort after I saw this...

Yeah, scarab! You kill him in the night!

I switched my vote from Wake to Boonskiies. His response...

I posted more so I wouldn't get prodded..
Sure, I'll OMGUS once again. This one makes more sense though.
VOTE: TheAdrienC
Reasonings later. In the middle of something right now.

*facepalm* He OMGUSed again?! And both times, he never gave a reason. Votes started being cast on him. 9 posts later, we have this. Actually, his next three posts were in complete succession...

I haven't read had time to read the thread yet, how can I possibly even know what the questions are? haha. I'll probably just end up being a policy lynch regardless. whatevs.

VOTE: Boonskiies

here, I'll help you until I catch up on the thread. Go ahead and lynch me for 'lack of content' even though I've blatantly said I haven't had any time to read the thread. Damn...ignorance.

Alright then, Clusk/Adrien are my scum reads. I don't actually feel that Wake is scum, he just is a scummy guy in general. Don't get all semantic-y on me. Acting scummy and being scum are two entirely different things. Don't be ignorant.

Yeah, clusk basically just repeats everything in question form, states the other person's opinion, or gives an obvious piece of advice. It's his scum style. He's scum.
Adrien is just voting people with weak cases, generally scummy as well, and the vote on me. really? just to scare a person. Wants me to give reads on a thread I obviously haven't kept up on. Please. And the fact, they haven't really engaged with each other at all, besides once when Adrien gave Clusk a tip/answered Clusk's question. And when someone tried getting a case against Clusk to Adrien, he completely shrugged it off as if it were nothing without even humoring the idea.

I'll vote for either.

Never gave any specific detail about either of us. He says all this but claims he didn't read the whole thread.

Then with no explanation, no addition votes being cast on clusk, and not even an appearance by Clusk between the last two quotes, boon decides to do this.

VOTE: Clusk

No explanation. No details in either of his posts about Clusk. He just hops on with farside's vote.

I'm town.

*claps*

So what you give you explanations for them whatsoever. Saying they scumread without saying why is weird.

That your top scumreads are the group's means setting up to wagon a lynch

.

Explain yourself.

Or it shows that those 3 are the ones that are coming across as most scummy - which they are.

Other people haven't explained their scumreads either so I don't see why its weird.

I'll explain mine later if it makes you happy, can't be bothered atm.

It's a problem with my play. I always come off as scummy when I'm town. Even if I scumhunt to the max.

See, a good town player doesn't care if he's coming off as scummy or not if he is scumhunting. So hunt! Find someone who is on the mafia that the rest of us might be missing. There are more of us than them. I know that I'm willing to get killed in this game if it means exposing a member of the mafia. When there's 7 town and 2 scum, that makes the game become 6-1 if we trade a town member and scum member. I'm willing to make that trade any day. If you aren't hunting scum, you are useless to the town. We call that being anti-town, which doesn't necessarily mean your role isn't a town role, it just means you aren't HELPING the town. Dead weight is not in the town's favor. You come off as scummy because YOU AREN'T HELPING THE TOWN. Until I actually see you helping the town, I'm going to believe you are anti-town and possibly even scum.

Boon is obvtown, knock it off.

I'd like to know what exactly makes him obvtown to you.

If people don't agree with you then should can and will simply disregard your noise.

No one is above inquiry, and you'll not be shielding anyone from suspicion here.

I want to know exactly why you think he's obvtown when he isn't, and why you feel the need to try and put yourself between him and other players.

'Cuz I'm obvtown, boy...

____

To answer my reads on Clusk, he doesn't give any true meaningful scum hunt that can't be brushed off just by thinking a little, puts his top 'scum' reads, but no reasoning, and his top 'scum' reads are just people that can potentially easily get a band wagon on them just because their natural play can bring people to the conclusion that they are scum, a la me. And Adrien I am less sure, he could just be a scummy-like player like myself. Clusk doesn't naturally seem scummy, though, but his weak reasoning draws me to think that he is scum. Also, he doesn't refer to his scum buddies like ever, unless he is answering a question for them, WHICH he doesn't do unless it's his scum buddy.

source: I have been in a scum game with him.

You aren't obvtown. Nothing is a sure thing on Day 1. And you know who else doesn't give a true meaningful scum hunt? I'll give you a hint, you kinda hinted at it earlier. You are, good sir. Give specific details like everyone else has on Clusk. You claim his meta from past games is pointing at him being scum. Probably the most useful information you've given us. If you can provide evidence of this, all of us would really appreciate this. But your most useful post was also littered with the whole "I'm obvtown" which still makes me cringe upon reading. Because the point that no one is above inquiry is true and the fact that you think you are gives me a scumvibe.

Your last post.

Clusk, can you address the accusations against you?

You're not the only one prodding him. Thanks for helping.

In summary: I could be wrong and he could just be a VI townie. I'm willing to admit that. But he has clearly be posting without participating. Unlike Wake's ISO where I picked the posts I had something to say about, I literally posted every post by him since the game got going. I almost feel like he was attempting to fly under the radar. Scum and SK are the only people I can consider someone who would want to keep their head down and just make it through the day. So some questions for you, boon. What specifically do you think might be a sign Clusk is mafia (I want quotes of his posts and explanations)? What are your other reads with evidence as well? Who do you think is scum and who do you trust as this point in time? And were you ever caught up enough post what you did post about me and Clusk (because if you were, you shouldn't have claimed you weren't caught up, if you weren't you should've finished reading before pointing fingers)?

Judgement: Willing to lynch

Next is Clusk, someone I was on the fence about when I posted my read list, but obviously with all the people pointing at him, it shouldn't hurt to go over his ISO next.

[TheAdrienC]

Thank you. I'm taking an Xbox/Pandora break before doing Clusk's ISO.

[TheAdrienC]

*shakes head* All you've done is attack people who have attacked you and Clusk. Talk to me about Clusk. And you think there aren't strong arguments in my posts then be specific. Trolling with the obvscum when we were posting serious posts trying to figure out who we need to put our votes on isn't something town should be doing. But that doesn't hide the fact that

your actions were anti-town

. If you want to change that, do that! Give us your case on Clusk. I'm listening. I'm going to be doing his ISO before going to bed. It might help you earn my trust. Hell, give a detailed case ON ME if you have to. All of us are trying to give detailed reasons why we should vote a certain way, what makes you above that? That's what I'm trying to accomplish with these ISO's. Not only am I showing people why I believe a certain way, it gives me an opportunity to put people underneath the microscope to see how I really feel about them. If you have a problem with that, you're not going to have fun playing mafia on this site.

And just because you say it isn't an OMGUS doesn't stop it from being one. You still admitted you haven't read everything yet, but you are sure enough you've seen enough from me to go that way. And by the way, you were pretty quick to OMGUS vote my way after I posted your ISO analysis.

And please remember, I don't have a vote on anyone right now. Calm down, dude.

[TheAdrienC]

Fluff? Define fluff and what makes my posts that? Alina (someone who was suspicious of me) and cabd both gave positive reviews of my ISO's. Do you not see what I'm trying to do by doing them? And at the time you posted your reads, you said you weren't caught up yet (posts 300-302). Give me HARD evidence on SOMEBODY. This isn't the first time you've said something was fluff. Quit shrugging off actual questions as fluff and actually ANSWER them. ASK questions, boon. Get information from people. Alina is right, YOU ARE CAPABLE OF THIS.

And I was serious, I'm about to do an analysis on Clusk. If you give me evidence of what you've said, it could help all of us and I'll be able to add information from it to when I go over everything he's posted.

@Alina, yes I have. It's actually quite common when you do these.

[TheAdrienC]

Hunter will be my next ISO. I'm halfway done with Clusk's. Hunter's will have to wait until after I get home from work tomorrow though.

[TheAdrienC]

Hunter will take 2 seconds, dude.

Yes, but I have to leave for work in 6 and a half hours. I shouldn't be trying to do Clusk's but I want to get it done before it bothers me when I'm laying down.

[TheAdrienC]

I'm not falling asleep or extremely fatigued. I just will be when I wake up in the morning. It's not like my job is all that hard.

[TheAdrienC]

ISO on Clusk

For most of the game, I haven't really had a good read on Clusk. Boon pointed out there hasn't been a whole lot of interaction between me and him and I guess that probably does hinder my ability. And I understand that a lot of what people want out of Clusk is for him to respond to stuff, something I'm probably not going to pick up upon looking through his ISO.

His first few posts don't really make me feel strongly either way about him.

VOTE: Wake88

For voting for Not_Mafia then FoSing someone for voting for Not_Mafia for the same reasons he did.

We all kinda posted something along these lines so he blended in well with us.

Unvote: Not_Mafia

Vote: Wake88

What the fuck...?

Missed this post, why did you change vote, was it because he FoSed you?

Questioned Scarab's vote change. If it wasn't for the "Missed this post", I'd say it was a town read. I'm still reading it with a bit of a null read though, but it was something Scarab should've addressed (Scarab kinda side-stepped the question, but that doesn't say anything about Clusk). Clusk's next few posts were just some questions he was pressing Wake about their theories on how to do a reaction test in the game of mafia followed by his response to Scarab's response to the above quote.

Unvote: Not_Mafia

Vote: Wake88

What the fuck...?

Missed this post, why did you change vote, was it because he FoSed you?

Do you actually think based on his post that this is the most likely reason?

No, I'm just looking for specific clarification on why you voted someone.

In my opinion, Clusk should've shown a bit more backbone and press harder for a response from Scarab if he wanted an answer to the question. Because he didn't get "specific clarification" on why Scarab changed his vote. Could Clusk just have been satisfied Scarab was on his wagon? Maybe but then why did he ask the question in the first place? Maybe this is the "forced" everyone said some of my posts looked? Then there was this little argument with Salamence. I'll just post all Clusk's posts from that "manipulating for votes debate".

Trying to get two different people to vote for Wake doesn't reflect well on you, Salamence.

Whos the other person?

I thought you was talking to Alina but I now see you posted at the same time, so sorry.

But still, manipulating a newbie in to voting for someone is still suspicious.

@

Clusk92

Why does it not reflect well on Salamence? You're voting wake too, right? I assume he's your top scumread, so shouldn't you be happy people are pushing other people to vote for him?

Regardless of my opinion on Wake, I find trying to force votes on to people without letting them come to their own conclusions first pretty scummy, in my opinion.

I was more looking at his post of suspicion on sal for asking people to vote for wake, but his next line he has wake as a scum read. This is something of a newb scum tell (well maybe to me) you set up someone suspicious for pushing a lynch that you can point to later. The fact that clusk finds wake the scummiest added to my suspicion of his comment.
Short response: pushing a wagon on a player you find scummy shouldn't bother you when you were following that players logic in the first place.

So you think people should vote for somebody just because someone told them to without coming to a conclusion themselves and thats ok? Righto. Also my scumreads are totally irrelevant to the point I'm making.

Weirdly enough even though I think SKOT is batshit crazy, he stills comes across as town to me, and I am not a fan of policy lynches, 100% of the time policy lynches are bad.

How is a player ordering/pressuring somebody (twice) to vote for someone

not

manipulative?

How is a player ordering/pressuring somebody (twice) to vote for someone

not

manipulative?

Did he threaten the player? No. He made a statement.
Again people have a brain and can decide to vote or not vote.
Telling a player to vote once or twice is not manipulation. It's a request, so far you haven't explained how it manipulation.

Didn't seem like much of a request to me - more like an order. It's manipulation by definition of the word - stop splitting hairs.

That's seven posts about that, pretty much saying the same thing. He's got two more to bring it up to nine. Since his ISO has 24 posts, it's just a bit under half his posts arguing that Salamence was Jedi mind tricks to make everyone lynch Wake (which votes were being removed after all of that, not going on him, in Salamence's defense). Was all of these posts really required to make your opinion known? I know I get annoyed if I have to repeat myself a lot in mafia games so I know this wasn't something he didn't realize he was doing. And I did ask him a question about the one thing that bothered me a lot when all of this going on.

If you truly believe that he is manipulating the town, why aren't you voting for him? Show some backbone. Personally, I believe it was a request than a demand.

Because despite that one post, he's generally seemed like town to me. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

He wasted all those posts on how Salamence manipulated people (or just Alina) and called him suspicious. But as he was posting all of this, I addressed him and said "If you find it so suspicious and such a big deal, vote for him. He gave me a fair answer, but I felt like that if he felt he was town, why go through the whole exercise in the first place?

vote sala...

Fuck it. I havent had any bullshit yet in this game, so now is the time:

Kill: SKOT

When he flips scum aegor is town

Does this end the day?

Someone wanted the day to hurry up and end. Could he have been a mafia member who was getting impatient and wanted to get rid of someone? Farside and boonskiies had votes on him. Farside also was seen as pretty town by

most

of us (there are some exceptions on the opinion of farside, your mileage may vary). After all the arguing, he could've been a bit sick of farside and was ready to off her for the night. Granted, all of this is speculative and not hard evidence. The WIFOM is strong with this, but I thought it was worth pointing out.

^ That. If you thought it was still possibly a gambit, why claim?

because an exposed role player around here can be a good thing with a doc around since you can repeat protections. I am either dead, in which case you can factor that in for someone who is reactive and needs out of the game. It won't kill the game if I end up NK.

So I want Sala to admit his bullshit. Then I want him run up to a claim.

How do you know there's a doctor?

Rolefishing? Still hard to really pin this on him as that, but it rubs me the wrong way.

Top scumreads atm are Boon, Wake and Scarab

Can you please provide your reasons for these three being your top reads? You just listed who you thought was scum, someone being a vote you have had on since the beginning of the game. When someone asked him to explain his reads...

So what you give you explanations for them whatsoever. Saying they scumread without saying why is weird.

That your top scumreads are the group's means setting up to wagon a lynch

.

Explain yourself.

Or it shows that those 3 are the ones that are coming across as most scummy - which they are.

Other people haven't explained their scumreads either so I don't see why its weird.

I'll explain mine later if it makes you happy, can't be bothered atm.

And 36 hours later, we never heard from him again. No explanation, no reasons, no answers. And it can't be because he hasn't been online because as farside provided with us, he has been online and posting elsewhere. So clusk, here are my questions for you:

Are those three still your top reads? Why were they your top reads and why are your current top reads your top reads now? Why have you been avoiding this particular game thread and playing everywhere else? And why are you avoiding answering any questions or accusations pointed out by the rest of the group.

He's suspicious, alright. It took putting him underneath a microscope to really realize that. So my judgement...

Judgement: Leaning slightly scum. I could be talked into voting for him and may threaten to hammer if he gets to L-1

[TheAdrienC]

I personally want to get a read on his replacement before I vote. I think he stopped caring about this particular game and that was a cause of a lot of our suspicion. Could that slot be scum? He totally could be. But I want to get a good read on who is coming in to replace before we start talking about lynching.

[TheAdrienC]

I doubt the mod can answer that. Sorry for the short posts, I'm on my iPhone sitting outside my work.

[TheAdrienC]

Vote: Clusk92

Reason: lets makes some flips happen

No. No. Hell no. This is not a town action. Rushing a lynch cheats us out of information. As someone pointed out, this could be scum bussing scum or maybe scum trying to rush to the night by rushing a town lynch. I mean, look at this guy's ISO.

Hi I'm mafia

VOTE: Not_Mafia

Thanks for the replies guys. I was super town just from asking that question. At least I 100% townread my self.

This post made me feel uneasy. Every time I look back at it, I get even more suspicious of him. Sure, it was before confirms and a few people shrugged this post off because of that but then he posted this...

I think you guys didn't take my serious vote seriously.

Vote: not_mafia

With only one other post in 300 posts after that, he posts this...

Hey we are not letting the scums coast to victory here are we. Let's push on some of the lurkers here.

And almost another 300 later, he posts the quote from the top. He hasn't asked a single question in an attempt to get information except set-up info from the mod on his confirm. He hasn't made a single attempt to scumhunt, explain a vote, provide any reads, or even help us get a proper read on him. When we're over 800 pages into the game and you've been here from the get go without providing us with ANYTHING, that's something that should be noticed. So while you guys are pondering putting your vote on him or not, I'm putting this back on him.

Vote: HunterSeeker

If he flips scum, it might be worth checking out Clusk's replacement the next day phase to see if this was a bus attempt. But I feel HS is more likely to flip scum at the moment than Clusk's replacement.

I'll be V/LA until Sunday evening but I will be reading from my phone.

[TheAdrienC]

I still want to know how my stuff sounds fake. No one wants to answer me on that.

[TheAdrienC]

... I love being targeted by everyone for something that isn't even tangible.

[TheAdrienC]

I'm home for a couple of hours. I can hammer if it needs to be done.

[TheAdrienC]

His opening post had this gem.

"If a replacement occurs during Night, the Night will continue for 24 hours after the replacement is complete (unless this would make it shorter than usual)."

So

I would assume

the replacement would get the same amount of say as anyone else would about night actions if he was scum. I think our moderator has gone to bed for the night, and at this point, I severely doubt someone is going to replace that slot (P-Edit: It's a shame you replaced Sally instead then).

As for relationships, he did bicker a lot with Farside and Salamence over if Salamence was manipulating someone to vote a certain way and did vote for but at the same time, question others who were voting for Wake. It's not like there's no interaction whatsoever.

[TheAdrienC]

Freudian slipping that your town...or was that on purpose...

[TheAdrienC]

Fine. I am considering just pulling the trigger and hammering him. It's been almost 48 hours since the replacement was requested.

[TheAdrienC]

But like I said, it's been two whole days since he requested his replacement. Is there a point where we just say that it's not coming?

P-Edit: It's definitely a possible theory that can't be ruled out but I don't think we can say it's absolutely definite. If clusk flips scum, we might want to look at boon.

[TheAdrienC]

Aww, I was gonna do it!

[TheAdrienC]

EV of 50%?

[TheAdrienC]

That awkward moment when you think "Holy cow, am I the only actual member of the town and everyone is in this game (all 20 of you) is mafia?"

[TheAdrienC]

Welp, here we go. Hope we all survive through the night! :3 (Except the scum. They can die.)

Since I already claimed, I guess I can guarantee that I will still be around. It's the next night phase I'm worried about.

[TheAdrienC]

Salamence pressured me before he requested replacement. Town commuter.

[TheAdrienC]

O_O What the hell happened while I was at work?!?! Give me a moment to catch up this game and my other game though I see I'm a popular candidate for lynching. My V/LA is officially over as of this post.

[TheAdrienC]

I said "Sunday evening" on my original post.

[TheAdrienC]

Adrien

, where've you been? What's your take on the day's drama?

The reason I was on V/LA was a lot of work hours crammed into just a few days (it was more of a LA than the V because I wasn't on vacation, I just didn't have the necessary time to be online to be considered a regular active participant). I just got back from a 10 hour shift after a closing shift last night so I've been there all day. I'm still catching up, noticing that I still am being accused of fake (if I hear one more complaint that I'm fake, my head will 'splode). I also see we have a wagon on HS because he mentioned there being five scum (information we the town should not be privy to, so it could be a legitimate slip). I was on the wagon for HS when Clusk was lynched so I'm all for lynching HS, but Alina is right, we shouldn't rush the lynch without getting a bit more information (the only reason I'm not gonna vote yet). If HS is scum/town/SK/third party/our long lost brother, we could learn more from his flip if we don't rush it. I'm still catching up a little bit so I hope to give more thoughts soon (if not tonight, then sometime tomorrow).

[TheAdrienC]

Would you like to see my work schedule?

[TheAdrienC]

Our real life shit should not be relevant to our alignment in this game. Please do not make attacks on my personal life because you don't know my life and I don't know yours. It was completely unrelated to mafia and I only brought it up because I was asked where I was.

[TheAdrienC]

I noted it before you ever got here. Everything is relevant if it is on this site and your vla was.

Personal attacks are against MafiaScum's rules and frankly uncalled for. And before my post on here saying I was back, I hadn't posted in three days (which includes another game
I'm in). Those posts three days ago were several within a few hour window (look at my ISO if you don't believe me) when I got home from a late night at work and tried to keep up with everything. My V/LA was because of real life issues including work and attempting to find out where I'm going to live next month. So I'm going to ask one more time, please keep my personal life out of this.

[TheAdrienC]

I noted it before you ever got here. Everything is relevant if it is on this site and your vla was.

Personal attacks are against MafiaScum's rules and frankly uncalled for. And before my post on here saying I was back, I hadn't posted in three days (which includes another game
I'm in). Those posts three days ago were several within a few hour window (look at my ISO if you don't believe me) when I got home from a late night at work and tried to keep up with everything. My V/LA was because of real life issues including work and attempting to find out where I'm going to live next month. So I'm going to ask one more time, please keep my personal life out of this.

I have noT attacked your personal life at all. I disbelieve that you were really vla but that is completely within the context of the game. You also logged in yesterday as I noted because your "last visited" when I was doing my catch up was yesterday (Saturday).

You calling me a liar about my real life problems IS a personal attack.

[TheAdrienC]

It doesn't seem like people are even going to bother even trying to see if there IS an alternate option. Wonderful. :/

Adrien

, where've you been? What's your take on the day's drama?

The reason I was on V/LA was a lot of work hours crammed into just a few days (it was more of a LA than the V because I wasn't on vacation, I just didn't have the necessary time to be online to be considered a regular active participant). I just got back from a 10 hour shift after a closing shift last night so I've been there all day. I'm still catching up, noticing that I still am being accused of fake (if I hear one more complaint that I'm fake, my head will 'splode). I also see we have a wagon on HS because he mentioned there being five scum (information we the town should not be privy to, so it could be a legitimate slip). I was on the wagon for HS when Clusk was lynched so

I'm all for lynching HS, but Alina is right, we shouldn't rush the lynch without getting a bit more information (the only reason I'm not gonna vote yet). If HS is scum/town/SK/third party/our long lost brother, we could learn more from his flip if we don't rush it.

I'm still catching up a little bit so I hope to give more thoughts soon (if not tonight, then sometime tomorrow).

You're not being ignored.

[TheAdrienC]

No, I am questioning the honesty of your vla. Big difference. Especially since you logged on yesterday while trying to say you last visited 3 days ago.

I took the V/LA (in more than one game, might I add) because I wasn't sure how often I was going to be able to have computer access in the span of a few days, not because there was no way I could have access to the site at all (it is bookmarked on my iPhone for me to, at worst, read posts). I also had no idea the night phase would occur when I first posted that I needed it. Even if I was scum, I would not take a V/LA unnecessarily because I feel that V/LA is something that should not be misconstrued for an advantage. That's just cheap and unfair, in my opinion. I still checked the site when I had a few minutes from arriving home from work or reading my other game when I had a few minutes, but not nearly enough attention it deserved for me to consider myself active.

I don't care if you believe I am fake or scum or whatever. After the game is over, we can laugh about how crazy and awesome this game was. But keep my personal business out of it.

[TheAdrienC]

@Aegor Completely un-mafia-related: Thank you.

@Juls, I'm going to cool off for a second and go over your ISO, responding to everything you've said about me and I will do it either tonight or in the morning. You have my word.

[TheAdrienC]

I put all my responses in Italics. I tried to take out unrelated stuff and did my best to make sure context wasn't warped.

First my catch up post (some of it may or may not make sense anymore but I am not editing it)

(some URLs fixed by Toomai)

Spoiler: Page 19 through 39

The AdrienC post 498 is dumb. Nobody is going to claim scum tracker so what's the fucking point?

I was merely pointing out that there can be a scum tracker. He didn't add that he was town in his claim. He just said he was a tracker.

AdrienC - information gathering is not necessarily a town tell. I also hate when people do VCA with no analysis. Information is good, information without analysis is useless.

My intention with that post was for us to see where the consensus was leaning to help us figure out who we were leaning for a lynch. I figured it would help the town narrow down our candidates and make a decision between them. If you don't agree with that, whatever. I was doing what I thought was benefiting us.

AdrienC - LOLOLOLOLOL

For someone who complains a lot about questions not being answered, you don't think I have the right to be annoyed that NO ONE wants to answer this for me?

AdrienC - What?. My vote will reside on this guy until he ceases to exist. I pray a vig has already killed him in the night.

The equivalent of me pondering out loud. Now that we know Sal's role wasn't scum, I know that thought that came to my head was incorrect.

AdrienC translation: I will go whereever the wind of suspicion is blowing

I asked another question and was once again annoyed by it not being answered. I was one of the first people to point at boon that day phase.

LOL, fake..

You sound a lot like Salamance about calling my posts that without explaining it. There comes a point where you guys are just trolling me. And how is me getting as about as emotional as one can get even be defined as fake? That is the textbook definition of real when I'm lashing out in frustration.

Also, I am just coming off a game where scum claimed town-commuter so I REALLY am disliking AdrienC's claim.

I can't help what role I was given.

@farside: Um, I don't think salamance provoked Adrien to claim at all. Adrien did that for no apparent reason.

Post 666

AdrienC - what kinda of sense does this make?

I answered this in Post 721 when Cabd asked me about it in post 718, but I'll answer again. While their role PM remains the same, I want to give a replacement a chance to have their own actions to be reflected on because there is no way in hell Cabd would be able to answer what was going through Salamance's head when Salamance said a lot of what he said. No two minds think exactly alike. Besides, a lot of people were wanting to hear from Clusk's replacement before ending the last day, right? Same concept. It didn't mean I was going to automatically crown the replacement with a townread. I was just going to let the new person's actions be reflected in my read of them and not what the departed player did. If this is a bad thought process, I'll learn that the hard way.

Fantastic analysis by this player. Let's see who actually read it.

You really think highly of yourself. Not saying you didn't have good points in your analysis but the horn-tooting was a bit unnecessary.

I wouldn't know but a question for

SKOT

, do you find this post to be buddying or not? You seem to have some experience with this player.

Who the hell is this guy? How am I on page 30 and seeing this name for the first time? This slot is either scum or seriously needs to replace out because this is unacceptable as town.

Adrien and Alina sitting in a tree, K-I-S-S-I-N-G...ugh, you guys need to get a room. {this was petty, but seriously...after the game, you guys should chat...maybe meet up...you are obviously smitten. There's no shame in it, I met my husband online...we have been married 11 years}....I am loopy right now....too much reading.

(This comment is not a game related noted) *blinks* I barely know this girl. She seems cool and all but dang, wasn't expecting that to be brought up. So I'm going to give you the same generic comment I give to some of my real life friends who try to set me up with some random girls: thanks but no thanks, I'll try to find something on my own.

Also, it looks like its multi-ball.

In a game with confirmed vigs, you immediately went to multi-ball (and you didn't sound all that unsure about it), something that I am immediately concerned you brought up without having insider information. It could have been a Vig kill, SK, multi-ball (it technically can't be ruled out), or even a JOAT.

Your next few posts just say that you believe me to be scum without posting evidence (to be fair, you did thoroughly explain why you voted me) then you switched your attention to HS. Then wake prodded you and caused your post 1046, which doesn't have any new evidence and I addressed everything you said in that post in my response above. Also A-D-R-I-

E

-N. Six letters. If you can't be bothered to learn to spell it, call me Ade. Three letters. You continue with Wake and only repeating previously mentioned reasons why you hate me and think I need to die.

I directly responded to any other post you posted directed to me. Are you satisfied with those responses?

[TheAdrienC]

So we're looking at 4 Mafia, 1 SK, and Even/Odd-Night Vigilantes?

No. If that were the case, we would have had three NKs.

What is your hard-on for two vigs all about, exactly? Why would you even think there is a second Vig?

Usually when there's an "Even-Night" role, there's and "Odd-Night" role as well. I'm not saying there is, but I'm saying there

may

, which you seem to take issue with. You seem to neglect the possibility that our dead Odd-Night Doctor, Farside, may have blocked one NK attempt... or that a different role may have done so. Do you not think these things are at least possible? If not, why?

I just want to acknowledge that this is possible. Farside or a JOAT might have blocked an attempt on someone, or someone might have taken a shot at either me (no one was gonna be able to kill me last night phase but I figured I might have been vig bait) or someone else who can't be killed (aren't serial killers and some godfathers bulletproof?). Or maybe we are only dealing with two people with killing roles that night, but we can't rule out three being around.

[TheAdrienC]

@Adrien - thoughts on Aegor?

I thought you didn't trust me? Either way, I'll go over his ISO and give some thoughts.

[TheAdrienC]

WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU ROLECLAIM? ARE YOU STUPID? No. No. No. No. You're scum. If you're town there is no freaking way you would do that. That is so freaking dumb. If you are town, CONGRATULATIONS ON MAKING IT MORE POSSIBLE SCUM WILL NIGHTKILL A PR.

I do agree with this. Your roleclaim didn't help us.

P-Edit: Fair enough.

[TheAdrienC]

I'm driving Alina up a wall.

Is that really a good thing?

[TheAdrienC]

...So many trolls and people getting pissed off at one another...

P-Edit: Really, Alina? Really?

[TheAdrienC]

*blinks*

[TheAdrienC]

Wake seems to be setting a trend. I've seen the words reaction testing all over this. I'll look over Aegor's ISO for you with fresh eyes in the morning. The fact you let Alina off after a little flirting didn't exactly impress me though, boonskiies. Stick to your guns unless evidence proves you wrong and all that other crap. Though that might be the jealousy she flirted back with you and was horrified at Juls shipping us, who knows. Haha.

[TheAdrienC]

Oh god, you guys suck for posting so much while I slept.

@Adri

E

n -no, I am not satisfied. I made more comments about you on my pages 1-18 posts. Respond to those as well. I'm headed to work now so I will be able to post but not big. I will try to retort more verbosely when I get home.

Is the name thing really called for? Now you're just making fun of me and trolling me.

Your first post which had analysis on me on the first bits of the game that was pointed out by pretty much everyone else and I've ALREADY responded to.

Page 12

-Aegor 279: is he seriously accusing boon of role fishing....for a scum role? bad vote.
-Adrien 287. This post is so fake. First the p-edit is not real. He is putting the p-edit at the top? Second, I hate how he finger wags at wake and says he is taking his vote off but he's watching him, etc. I also hate the "I'm not your friend" speech. This whole post feels like what Adrien "thinks" town should sound like but it just comes off completely manufactured. And then the vote on boon is just ridiculous. He says he wanted to keep his head low but why in the world would boon have posted "hmmm" if he was trying to lay low? That just brought attention to him. I disagree with Salamance that adrien is bussing wake. I think Adrien is scum and wake is probably bad-town like farside said.
-Town read on Alina is growing. If you are town, stop being so tentative. Trust your gut. If you are scum I will never believe the innocent routine again!

Is there something wrong with having a P-edit at the top? Why do you keep calling me a liar about things that are not relevant to my alignment? I was posting, kept refreshing the game in another window and noticed more posts. And as for the taking the vote off Wake but still saying I'm watching him, practically 20 instances of that has happened from almost everyone here. Why is it only scummy when I do it? And I just wanted to make sure that it was clear that I was not trying to manipulate Alina by what I was being accused of "buddying up" with her. You're the one who made the joke about us kissing in a tree.

Page 13

-Stupid self vote is stupid. Let's see who takes the bait. I predict the policy lynching king Aegor.

(Oh, I just remembered something I forgot to say on page 12. That big post from Adrien, he also copies farside with definition shit. This guy is seriously fake)

-Hmmm, day vig shenanigans. Since we are still d1, I assume this is fake.

How is using a tactic I've seen successfully done to get answers out of someone fake? No, you're not going to answer that because no one addresses anything I ask about how I'm fake...they just snicker and point like a bunch of middle school kids.

- Oh look more fake hysterics from Adrien.

This is the shit you want me to respond to instead of me trying to do any scumhunting since I got back?

-If AdrienC is town, I am probably never going to be able to read him ever. This guy is so scummy/fake.

And this.

Now, I have things that I want YOU to address.

1. Don't you think that you wanting me to go through your ISO and address every little mention of my name even though a huge chunk of it has no content whatsoever is distracting me of my purpose to find scum and lynch them? I wake up this morning wanting to do an ISO on Aegor per boonskiies's request and all I've done for the past hour is go through your ISO to find stuff like "Heh heh heh, Adrien is so fake...". Don't you think that's counter-productive for the town if I'm not participating in getting information and processing information and trying to get a lynch because we need every living town member (oh wait,

you

don't think I am town!!) to find the scum so we can lynch the scum after losing three townies so far?

2. Do you think there is any validity in this quote from this Mastin article?

If you attempt to make a Post by Post Analysis (abbreviated PbPA, wherein you list each of a target player's posts and critique each one), you are very likely to find yourself stretching to justify a conclusion you already had in mind beforehand with posts that don't actually add anything. In fact, PbPAs are quite possibly the most pointless ways you can waste time in Mafia.

You felt I was scum from the first few pages you read. Other people who have been suspicious of me eventually went elsewhere after more posts came along. You started to get vaguer and vaguer about why you didn't like each post I made. Maybe you started looking into my posts with a bias that you thought I was scum and that made you find scummy things that weren't even there? You don't think that target fixation is something that can happen in mafia at all? Don't you think that target fixation is NOT a good thing?

3. Fake? If you don't explain this, I'm ignoring you for the rest of the game unless you post something extremely profound and important.

[TheAdrienC]

inb4 dat post is fake to y'all! Derp derp derp

[TheAdrienC]

Is anyone else noticing that Not_Mafia basically hopped on every bandwagon started this day phase (with the exception of boonskiies)?

[TheAdrienC]

Hey Adri

E

n, I will respond to you in detail tonight when I am on my PC but in the meantime, answer the two true/false questions below:

True or false...
1) Scum must fake interactions with townies to sound like town
2) Having fake-sounding posts is a scum tell

1.) True.

2.) Define fake sounding. How have my posts sounded fake. I've been wanting this definition for almost 50 pages.

And insult my name one more time, I'm reporting.

[TheAdrienC]

Examples but not explanations. I don't see how my posts sound fake. I even gave you explanations of why I said what I said on some of those examples. And my name is a personal attack, something you seem to love doing to me.

[TheAdrienC]

Classic fucking bullying.

[TheAdrienC]

Your ENTIRE ISO. Unedited. The only thing I'm going to do is bold any mention of me being fake and take out spoiler tags. Let's see how many explanations we got in this.

Spoiler:

/confirm

UNVOTE:
I should be able to post tonight (at work right now)

OK, I am going to do this 10 pages at a time. I will place my vote when I get fully caught up.

Pages 1 thru 10

I am town reading Not_Mafia, SKOT, Slamence20
I am scum reading TheAdrienC, Clusk92
I am flip-flopping back and forth on farside22, Alina, Wake88

My town read on Not_Mafia is because he is asking questions that seem relevant to me. I especially like post 96 because he challenges Wake on his claim of reaction testing and his response to Burning_Town in 212 about them making a judgement call on Wake based on "getting us out of RVS".

My town read on SKOT comes from his abrasiveness regarding "patty-caking" and his OMGUS "slap in the face" vote of Aegor. I am not crazy about this and I worry we are going to butt heads but I am more and more reading this type of thumbing-your-nose-up-at-site-meta as a town thing. Until someone proves me wrong I am going to stick with that reading. I also think Aegor comes off looking bad in the exchange for suggesting we policy lynch SKOT and then voting him for his "slap in the face" vote (which is essentially the same thing as policy-lynching). However, I am not sure hypocrisy is strictly a scum-tell so I am not ready to lean scum on Aegor yet.

I can't really put a finger on one thing I like about Slamence20, it's just a gut-type read right now.

My scum read on AdrienC is based on several things. First his FOS of wake without a vote followed by a vote on Wake but then asking people not to hammer in the same breath.

His posts 149 and 154 feel forced

and he apologized to SKOT for being suspicious of him and has been white knighting. In general, I haven't seen a single post from Adrien to make me think he is town.

My scum read on Clusk is weak but it's mainly to do with his trying to push Salamence's "vote for wake" comments as a manipulation and a scum-tell.

OK, I am scared to go down the rabbit-hole with farside22 but I guess I have to. I have played two recent games with farside22 and both games I knew she was town from like the first 4 or 5 posts. I am not getting a strong town read on her here and that is making me nervous. If it is still relevant (might not be) I would like her to at least address a couple things: in post 144 where you call wake a bad-town read as opposed to scum. What differentiates him as bad-town vs. scum? Also, how do you feel your pushing on Clusk about the definition of manipulate led into your read of him? I admit I feel like a hypocrite because I scum read him based on his pushing of Salemance's manipulation but I felt like your hounding him on "definitions" just came off as a little too much of nothing. If you can elaborate on what you gained from it I would appreciate it. From the town-side of my farside read I have liked her vote on clusk, her paranoia over Alina buddying her, and her stance on not-policy-lynching SKOT.

Alina, my main waffling on her revolves around all the buddying she is doing of farside. I noted it in one, two, three places. I am trying to decide if this is a scum-scum, town-town, or scum-town association. But I don't think it is Alina town/farside scum associating. I guess it could be but that is the least likely to me. There have been some townie posts from her though.

I don't know what to think about Wake. He is just all over the place. I joined the majority in hating his first post but then the aggressiveness with which he defended it seems kinda townie.

So that's all I have time for tonight. I will try to do at least another 10 pages tomorrow night. If I was going to vote, it would definitely be on TheAdrienC at this point.

Alright I will pre-apologize but I am going to do this a page at a time until my daughters danc class is over because I am on my ipad and jumping back and forth between notepad and the browser like I do on my. PC is not happening on this. So....

Page 11

-Wake's enormous wall is a massive word count of saying one thing:

reaction test

-I don't like Mirahawks 269. It's pushing a very weak argument and I think Scarab's responses have been what I would expect from town.
-Salamance's 271 is fantastic except where he goes off the rails on SKOT.
-Aegors 274 is the first post I got town vibes from but I don't like the push to lynch lurkers. He keeps making policy-lynch threats but isn't doing too much scum hunting.

Page 12

-Aegor 279: is he seriously accusing boon of role fishing....for a scum role? bad vote.
-Adrien 287.

This post is so fake.

First the p-edit is not real. He is putting the p-edit at the top? Second, I hate how he finger wags at wake and says he is taking his vote off but he's watching him, etc. I also hate the "I'm not your friend" speech. This whole post feels like what Adrien "thinks" town should sound like but it just comes off completely manufactured. And then the vote on boon is just ridiculous. He says he wanted to keep his head low but why in the world would boon have posted "hmmm" if he was trying to lay low? That just brought attention to him. I disagree with Salamance that adrien is bussing wake. I think Adrien is scum and wake is probably bad-town like farside said.
-Town read on Alina is growing. If you are town, stop being so tentative. Trust your gut. If you are scum I will never believe the innocent routine again!

This is the only one where you generate any explanation of it but you didn't really explain how IT is fake. You said the P-Edit was fake. I started writing, saw new posts, edited my posts. Is sense of time something that can be faked? You said I posted something I thought town would post but never said what sounded like that. You just called the whole post, in general, something that I thought I should post to make myself look like town.

I responded to accusations and questions directed at me in that post. I posted my God honest opinions on who I thought was scum in that post. I don't see how that was fake. Your explanation did not break down and EXPLAIN WHY it was fake, you just said you hated how I took my vote off Wake and voted on Boon after I said that I would vote for him if you posted another post without any content to it. Excuse me for following through on my promises (something that I do not feel can be misconstrued as fake).

Page 13

-Stupid self vote is stupid. Let's see who takes the bait. I predict the policy lynching king Aegor.

(Oh, I just remembered something I forgot to say on page 12.

That big post from Adrien, he also copies farside with definition shit. This guy is seriously fake

)

-Hmmm, day vig shenanigans. Since we are still d1, I assume this is fake.

I responded to that earlier but still don't see how that is fake.

Page 14

-Why is BP rehashing things he has already commented on?

We will. I still don't know how to read you. You're either scum or just that looney guy in the village that always tries to make up conversation with the other people in the cafés and that goes to the hardware store on purpose to make friends and to pretend he's having a conversation but that no one takes seriously ultimately. So you're either that or you're scum trying to look that way

I LOL'd, you can be town.

-I'm liking Scarab more and more.
-Uh, this is a terrible claim by SKOT and my town read on him just completely reversed. No town would question the validity of a daykill then claim. More non-townieness from SKOT.

- Oh look more fake hysterics from Adrien.

Page 15

-No comments, just theory talk.

Page 16

-

If AdrienC is town, I am probably never going to be able to read him ever. This guy is so scummy/fake

.
-SKOT, if you are town, repeat after me..."what I did was dumb, I should not have claimed, I made a bad move." And holy shit I need to meta Aegor to see if he always policy lynches instead of scum hunting!

Page 17

-Oh wow, SKOT actually showed some remorse. I wasn't expecting that. Now I don't know how to feel.

Page 18

Scarab vs BP feels like town on town.

I'm done for now, daughters class is almost over and my eyes are glazing over. I might do a few more pages before bed but no guarantees.

Was too tired to read tonight, will definitely get caught by Friday at latest.

First my catch up post (some of it may or may not make sense anymore but I am not editing it)

(some URLs fixed by Toomai)

The AdrienC post 498 is dumb. Nobody is going to claim scum tracker so what's the fucking point?

Alina post 501 - Why does it matter that Damon has posted? What about his post made you think he was so town?

Damon_Gant, post 502 - second post of the game where he says he has a lot of town reads but doesn't elaborate. Two posts that are full of nothing. Anybody can say "I have a bunch of town reads. Thanks y'all, see ya later"

Burning_Town, post 507: How is making light of rule breaking and being a douche a scum tell? Why is reinfoe not a scumspect since he was "placing bets"?

Around 516 - All the suspicion of Boonskies seem opportunistic. It's clear to me the guy is just cutting up and people are latching on to that as a scum tell. He may be scum but not for anything he has done so far.

Salamence20, post 518 is super town. I don't agree with him/her 100% on SKOT but the arguments are sound (except the random vote one) and I 100% agree with his/her read on Boonskies.


Aeronaut post 523 --- learn sarcasm. You too clusk.

Not_Mafia is town

AdrienC - information gathering is not necessarily a town tell. I also hate when people do VCA with no analysis. Information is good, information without analysis is useless.

Hunterseeker post 536 is odd.


Hmmm, not liking this flashwagon on Hunterseeker. Not that I don't like the wagon, but I don't like the reasons. I am reading Hunterseeker as a troll at this point. So null. I like this post by BP for acknowledging this. And another opportunistic vote by Aeronaut.

Really dislike post 589 by Damon_Gant. He just grabbed a spattering of players and posted not-very-deep commentary on him. Geez, he even looked at my slot who I think had 3 posts? And then he jumps on the flashwagon. He is now in my scum column.

AdrienC - LOLOLOLOLOL

I'm starting to have a problem with the way Wake's posts are coming off. It might be a style thing but I feel like his posts are too forced. I don't know if I can explain it properly but the linked is an example. I'm probably still a little gun-shy to call him scum for it but it's just something I have been noticing. Another example in 601. The puffed-chest comment. And 604 with the snapping at Not_Mafia. Both feel over the top.

AdrienC - What?. My vote will reside on this guy until he ceases to exist. I pray a vig has already killed him in the night.

shaddowez 611: Hmmm, this is interesting that he chose to vote Clusk instead of HS when he suspects HS and HS is the leading wagon. If we find out that HS is scum or shaddowez is scum, this is a potential buddy-association to remember.

More policy-lynch hunting by Aegor instead of scum-hunting.

shaddowez post 621 - why the big case on Boonskies and instead keeping vote on Clusk where the case is much weaker?

I like farside's 626. Particularly the Aegor part. But knowing Clusk's flip I doubt scum-farside would be so "sure" in a read she knew was town, although if it's multiball that goes out the window. Another good post by farside. I didn't notice this.

AdrienC translation: I will go whereever the wind of suspicion is blowing

OK, I am getting really annoyed at reading the style of Wake's posts, so I am pretty much putting him on ignore and letting the rest of you figure him out. All his posts seem forced in their delivery but I am not necessarily getting a scum-read from the content of them so I just can't read him.

Contrast that with AdrienC who I find everything he says to be scummy and fake/forced

.


This is a town post by BP.

LOL, fake.. And fuck yeah to BP. Note to self: play more games with BP, I like this kid.

Oh look it's me. Hi me!

What the hell, Aegor? This whole post is great except for the vote. Why vote HS while you are making your case on AdrienC?

Also, I am just coming off a game where scum claimed town-commuter so I REALLY am disliking AdrienC's claim.

Note to self, if Alina ever suspects me, claim anything and her suspicion goes Poof!

@farside: Um, I don't think salamance provoked Adrien to claim at all. Adrien did that for no apparent reason.

AdrienC - what kinda of sense does this make?

Fantastic analysis by this player. Let's see who actually read it.

I wouldn't know but a question for

SKOT

, do you find this post to be buddying or not? You seem to have some experience with this player.

Who the hell is this guy? How am I on page 30 and seeing this name for the first time? This slot is either scum or seriously needs to replace out because this is unacceptable as town.

Adrien and Alina sitting in a tree, K-I-S-S-I-N-G...ugh, you guys need to get a room. {this was petty, but seriously...after the game, you guys should chat...maybe meet up...you are obviously smitten. There's no shame in it, I met my husband online...we have been married 11 years}....I am loopy right now....too much reading.

@Aeronaut why did you provide reads on this set of people in particular?

Even though it turned out to be wrong, I can see this as a good argument from Not_Mafia

@farside. Look up in this wall a bit, I noted one BP post in particular I felt was town but I have in general liked their posting. I could probably dig up more specific things if the ones I mention here doesn't strike you as town but I don't know that it is necessary at this point. For the most part, its been them saying/posting things I thought to myself as I was reading through.

Also, @farside: Why did it take you so long to come to this conclusion about Damon?

Good job SKOT, maybe we will get along after all.

Aeronaut's over-defense of a non-case is noted.

reinoe, spoiler that shit.

And BP/Scarabare back at it...

@Alina: I hope you mean you ISO'd HS instead of Clusk, otherwise this post makes zero sense. Ah, yeah, you did.Good.

This is an interesting question to ask. Probably not scum.


General note:

I feel like TheAdrienC's V/LA was meant to look as if he was "gone" in the night

but in reality he has posted a lot during the night on-site and last visited today (Saturday).

VOTE: AdrienC

Also, it looks like its multi-ball.

Crap, Mod, can you fix my last four URLs. I meant to double check that but I didn't

Yep.

Adrien is THE lynch today. I will fight tooth and nail for this. So, please, just sheep me now.

And crap, I forgot to add my reads list:

Town - Not_Mafia,

Salamence20/Cabd

, Alina, Scarab, Boonskies, BP
Scum - AdrienC, Mirahawks, Damon_Gant, Aeronaut

Back/Forth -

farside

, Wake, SKOT

Unknown - Aegor, everyone else(?)

Awww shucks, I thought I made a love connection.

5 would be weird if we are multiball unless we have a serial killer? I'm not sure if SK counts in multiball. This is a new term for me.

And Not_Mafia, you seem very town. Please join my lynch Adrien cause. I promise it will be worth it.

Hunter seeker, if you are town now is the time to stop trolling. I will let them lynch you!

If HS ends up being town I will report him to the mafia gods for playing against his win condition.

You are absolutely doing number 3. If you can't play the fucking game then don't play the fucking game. I am not appealing to emotion, I am stating fact. And you will not be allowed to live until end game because you are just a troll or scum.

Fuck this.
Adrien can wait (and it pains me to say that because I have been waiting all night to push his lynch). This guy can't be town. He's trying to plant seeds of linkage.


VOTE: Hunterseeker

Those people were the people who we were talking about at the time, and I had some limited posting time, so I figured it's better to give a read on them than nobody at all.

If I recall, Salamance/Adrien weren't being discussed as serious lynch candidates. Sure they had their argument but I don't think anyone latched on to that. It seems odd you would provide reads on them alongside HS and Clusk.

P-edit: HS has pissed me off, Adrien is still my lynch of choice but I can't deny how blatant HS is being and he will just be a distraction. Seriously, he tried to make an argument about bussing Adrien and then being a scum-partner with me. What town motivation would he have for doing that? Now do you want to passive aggressively call me scum or actually do it? Hint: the former is a scum-trait.

Hunterseeker is saying"blue" because he is from epicmafia: https://epicmafia.com/user/318243#/

If HS ends up being town I will report him to the mafia gods for playing against his win condition.

oh I hate that crap... someone claiming such... pure bullshit

You have such a stick up your ass when anyone says anything in line with site meta. Tell me then SKOT, how is making two comments about scum-buddies as town playing to your wincon?

Knowing that someone travelled to nowhere is useful info as well. Or are you claiming role locked. Being coy is not helpful.

I think Juls was onto something with his analysis in post eh 964. It was very good. It had me convinced really. I mean if I WERE MAFIA (im not, i just hard claimed blue), but IF I WERE MAFIA, I would bus adrien instantly. YES.

How is this town SKOT?

Note to self: actually Juls's interaction with me had been great had we been a maf team, Juls seems genuinely upset and I shud get towncred for fishing reactions. I mean no one would believe we are teamed even if one of us flip maf. /end note to self

How is this town SKOT?

Knowing that someone travelled to nowhere is useful info as well. Or are you claiming role locked. Being coy is not helpful.

you paying attention to the game at all. You should be able to add 1+1...
I did not act on an odd night...

Did you claim even night tracker? I just read a 39 page game, please be forgiving if I missed a detail or two.

I did think he was a town-troll until he started to throw that WIFOM shit out. Now I think he is planting seeds for whenever he is lynched, so let's get it out of the way.

My point is that if he is a town doing this then he is playing against his wincon. But I don't care that much about him getting punished, I can just personally blacklist him. So I will rescind my theat to report him. So can you stop plying Robinhood now and actually explain to me the town motivation of placing that WIFOM?

I also forgot to add in the wifom of the town/mafia count.

Fucking ipad just lost my long ass response to wake. The Tldr of it is you are talking to people like they are children and it is likely a style thing. I tend to town read your content but get hung up on the style in which you say it. Also, why did you not comment on HS's wifom? You just surface read that whole exchange and rehashed it instead of reading the reasons that are clearly and succinctly presented about HS.

And is it fair to say I flip-flopped? Only on HS. I still scum read Adrian. HS I was town-troll reading until he pulled that wifom shit.

If you want me to respect your words and wisdom then don't be an ass hole in the way you address people. You can find scum without being so in people's face. Hint: most of us aren't scum so stop talking to us like we are all caught-scum.

HS is scum for saying the scum/town ratio ( so we will be put off by it when he gets lynched), for saying he 'would bus Adrian' if he were scum buddies with Adrian, while a voting for Adrian, and for saying he and I couldn't be scum buddies together which is setting up for you to lynch me when he flips scum.

Adrian is scum because he is fake as fuck

. I will not repost every instance of it that I noted because you can hit that little 'ISO' by name to see them. And he constantly shifts with where the wind of suspicion is floating.

P-edit: read my catchup post. I have recently finished a game where scum claimed commuter so it is highly suspect to me on top of all the other reasons I am scum reading him.

Are you joking wake? I absolutely gave my reasons sbout Adrien but I am not going to link all the posts again when you can just look at my ISO. In case you aren't aware, doing links on an ipad is a pain in the ass.

Using your brain and your fingers isn't, Juls.

Look at his posts, and post in 4 sentences exactly why you find Adrien Scummy.

Is that too difficult?

I'm done with you. I did what you asked. You can fucking do what I said or not. I truly don't give a shit. If you want to vote me for doing exactly what you asked then good luck with getting me lynched.

Thank you not_mafia. Maybe you can do a better job of getting through to him on how he is acting.

Wake I literally have a very succinct ISO since I was catching up and not having conversations with people. I have my summary of the game in about 6-8 posts. You are just being an ass hole by not reading it and making it out like I am doing something wrong by pointing you to it.

OK, I am going to do this 10 pages at a time. I will place my vote when I get fully caught up.

Pages 1 thru 10

I am town reading Not_Mafia, SKOT, Slamence20
I am scum reading TheAdrienC, Clusk92
I am flip-flopping back and forth on farside22, Alina, Wake88

My town read on Not_Mafia is because he is asking questions that seem relevant to me. I especially like post 96 because he challenges Wake on his claim of reaction testing and his response to Burning_Town in 212 about them making a judgement call on Wake based on "getting us out of RVS".

My town read on SKOT comes from his abrasiveness regarding "patty-caking" and his OMGUS "slap in the face" vote of Aegor. I am not crazy about this and I worry we are going to butt heads but I am more and more reading this type of thumbing-your-nose-up-at-site-meta as a town thing. Until someone proves me wrong I am going to stick with that reading. I also think Aegor comes off looking bad in the exchange for suggesting we policy lynch SKOT and then voting him for his "slap in the face" vote (which is essentially the same thing as policy-lynching). However, I am not sure hypocrisy is strictly a scum-tell so I am not ready to lean scum on Aegor yet.

I can't really put a finger on one thing I like about Slamence20, it's just a gut-type read right now.

My scum read on AdrienC is based on several things. First his FOS of wake without a vote followed by a vote on Wake but then asking people not to hammer in the same breath. His posts 149 and 154 feel forced and he apologized to SKOT for being suspicious of him and has been white knighting. In general, I haven't seen a single post from Adrien to make me think he is town.

My scum read on Clusk is weak but it's mainly to do with his trying to push Salamence's "vote for wake" comments as a manipulation and a scum-tell.

OK, I am scared to go down the rabbit-hole with farside22 but I guess I have to. I have played two recent games with farside22 and both games I knew she was town from like the first 4 or 5 posts. I am not getting a strong town read on her here and that is making me nervous. If it is still relevant (might not be) I would like her to at least address a couple things: in post 144 where you call wake a bad-town read as opposed to scum. What differentiates him as bad-town vs. scum? Also, how do you feel your pushing on Clusk about the definition of manipulate led into your read of him? I admit I feel like a hypocrite because I scum read him based on his pushing of Salemance's manipulation but I felt like your hounding him on "definitions" just came off as a little too much of nothing. If you can elaborate on what you gained from it I would appreciate it. From the town-side of my farside read I have liked her vote on clusk, her paranoia over Alina buddying her, and her stance on not-policy-lynching SKOT.

Alina, my main waffling on her revolves around all the buddying she is doing of farside. I noted it in one, two, three places. I am trying to decide if this is a scum-scum, town-town, or scum-town association. But I don't think it is Alina town/farside scum associating. I guess it could be but that is the least likely to me. There have been some townie posts from her though.

I don't know what to think about Wake. He is just all over the place. I joined the majority in hating his first post but then the aggressiveness with which he defended it seems kinda townie.

So that's all I have time for tonight. I will try to do at least another 10 pages tomorrow night. If I was going to vote, it would definitely be on TheAdrienC at this point.

Alright I will pre-apologize but I am going to do this a page at a time until my daughters danc class is over because I am on my ipad and jumping back and forth between notepad and the browser like I do on my. PC is not happening on this. So....

Page 11

-Wake's enormous wall is a massive word count of saying one thing:

reaction test

-I don't like Mirahawks 269. It's pushing a very weak argument and I think Scarab's responses have been what I would expect from town.
-Salamance's 271 is fantastic except where he goes off the rails on SKOT.
-Aegors 274 is the first post I got town vibes from but I don't like the push to lynch lurkers. He keeps making policy-lynch threats but isn't doing too much scum hunting.

Page 12

-Aegor 279: is he seriously accusing boon of role fishing....for a scum role? bad vote.
-Adrien 287. This post is so fake. First the p-edit is not real. He is putting the p-edit at the top? Second, I hate how he finger wags at wake and says he is taking his vote off but he's watching him, etc. I also hate the "I'm not your friend" speech. This whole post feels like what Adrien "thinks" town should sound like but it just comes off completely manufactured. And then the vote on boon is just ridiculous. He says he wanted to keep his head low but why in the world would boon have posted "hmmm" if he was trying to lay low? That just brought attention to him. I disagree with Salamance that adrien is bussing wake. I think Adrien is scum and wake is probably bad-town like farside said.
-Town read on Alina is growing. If you are town, stop being so tentative. Trust your gut. If you are scum I will never believe the innocent routine again!

Page 13

-Stupid self vote is stupid. Let's see who takes the bait. I predict the policy lynching king Aegor.

(Oh, I just remembered something I forgot to say on page 12. That big post from Adrien, he also copies farside with definition shit. This guy is seriously fake)

-Hmmm, day vig shenanigans. Since we are still d1, I assume this is fake.

Page 14

-Why is BP rehashing things he has already commented on?

We will. I still don't know how to read you. You're either scum or just that looney guy in the village that always tries to make up conversation with the other people in the cafés and that goes to the hardware store on purpose to make friends and to pretend he's having a conversation but that no one takes seriously ultimately. So you're either that or you're scum trying to look that way

I LOL'd, you can be town.

-I'm liking Scarab more and more.
-Uh, this is a terrible claim by SKOT and my town read on him just completely reversed. No town would question the validity of a daykill then claim. More non-townieness from SKOT.
- Oh look more fake hysterics from Adrien.

Page 15

-No comments, just theory talk.

Page 16

-If AdrienC is town, I am probably never going to be able to read him ever. This guy is so scummy/fake.
-SKOT, if you are town, repeat after me..."what I did was dumb, I should not have claimed, I made a bad move." And holy shit I need to meta Aegor to see if he always policy lynches instead of scum hunting!

Page 17

-Oh wow, SKOT actually showed some remorse. I wasn't expecting that. Now I don't know how to feel.

Page 18

Scarab vs BP feels like town on town.

I'm done for now, daughters class is almost over and my eyes are glazing over. I might do a few more pages before bed but no guarantees.

First my catch up post (some of it may or may not make sense anymore but I am not editing it)

(some URLs fixed by Toomai)

The AdrienC post 498 is dumb. Nobody is going to claim scum tracker so what's the fucking point?

Alina post 501 - Why does it matter that Damon has posted? What about his post made you think he was so town?

Damon_Gant, post 502 - second post of the game where he says he has a lot of town reads but doesn't elaborate. Two posts that are full of nothing. Anybody can say "I have a bunch of town reads. Thanks y'all, see ya later"

Burning_Town, post 507: How is making light of rule breaking and being a douche a scum tell? Why is reinfoe not a scumspect since he was "placing bets"?

Around 516 - All the suspicion of Boonskies seem opportunistic. It's clear to me the guy is just cutting up and people are latching on to that as a scum tell. He may be scum but not for anything he has done so far.

Salamence20, post 518 is super town. I don't agree with him/her 100% on SKOT but the arguments are sound (except the random vote one) and I 100% agree with his/her read on Boonskies.


Aeronaut post 523 --- learn sarcasm. You too clusk.

Not_Mafia is town

AdrienC - information gathering is not necessarily a town tell. I also hate when people do VCA with no analysis. Information is good, information without analysis is useless.

Hunterseeker post 536 is odd.


Hmmm, not liking this flashwagon on Hunterseeker. Not that I don't like the wagon, but I don't like the reasons. I am reading Hunterseeker as a troll at this point. So null. I like this post by BP for acknowledging this. And another opportunistic vote by Aeronaut.

Really dislike post 589 by Damon_Gant. He just grabbed a spattering of players and posted not-very-deep commentary on him. Geez, he even looked at my slot who I think had 3 posts? And then he jumps on the flashwagon. He is now in my scum column.

AdrienC - LOLOLOLOLOL


I'm starting to have a problem with the way Wake's posts are coming off. It might be a style thing but I feel like his posts are too forced. I don't know if I can explain it properly but the linked is an example. I'm probably still a little gun-shy to call him scum for it but it's just something I have been noticing. Another example in 601. The puffed-chest comment. And 604 with the snapping at Not_Mafia. Both feel over the top.

AdrienC - What?. My vote will reside on this guy until he ceases to exist. I pray a vig has already killed him in the night.

shaddowez 611: Hmmm, this is interesting that he chose to vote Clusk instead of HS when he suspects HS and HS is the leading wagon. If we find out that HS is scum or shaddowez is scum, this is a potential buddy-association to remember.

More policy-lynch hunting by Aegor instead of scum-hunting.

shaddowez post 621 - why the big case on Boonskies and instead keeping vote on Clusk where the case is much weaker?

I like farside's 626. Particularly the Aegor part. But knowing Clusk's flip I doubt scum-farside would be so "sure" in a read she knew was town, although if it's multiball that goes out the window. Another good post by farside. I didn't notice this.

AdrienC translation: I will go whereever the wind of suspicion is blowing

OK, I am getting really annoyed at reading the style of Wake's posts, so I am pretty much putting him on ignore and letting the rest of you figure him out. All his posts seem forced in their delivery but I am not necessarily getting a scum-read from the content of them so I just can't read him. Contrast that with AdrienC who I find everything he says to be scummy and fake/forced.


This is a town post by BP.

LOL, fake.. And fuck yeah to BP. Note to self: play more games with BP, I like this kid.

Oh look it's me. Hi me!

What the hell, Aegor? This whole post is great except for the vote. Why vote HS while you are making your case on AdrienC?

Also, I am just coming off a game where scum claimed town-commuter so I REALLY am disliking AdrienC's claim.

Note to self, if Alina ever suspects me, claim anything and her suspicion goes Poof!

@farside: Um, I don't think salamance provoked Adrien to claim at all. Adrien did that for no apparent reason.

AdrienC - what kinda of sense does this make?

Fantastic analysis by this player. Let's see who actually read it.

I wouldn't know but a question for

SKOT

, do you find this post to be buddying or not? You seem to have some experience with this player.

Who the hell is this guy? How am I on page 30 and seeing this name for the first time? This slot is either scum or seriously needs to replace out because this is unacceptable as town.

Adrien and Alina sitting in a tree, K-I-S-S-I-N-G...ugh, you guys need to get a room. {this was petty, but seriously...after the game, you guys should chat...maybe meet up...you are obviously smitten. There's no shame in it, I met my husband online...we have been married 11 years}....I am loopy right now....too much reading.

@Aeronaut why did you provide reads on this set of people in particular?

Even though it turned out to be wrong, I can see this as a good argument from Not_Mafia

@farside. Look up in this wall a bit, I noted one BP post in particular I felt was town but I have in general liked their posting. I could probably dig up more specific things if the ones I mention here doesn't strike you as town but I don't know that it is necessary at this point. For the most part, its been them saying/posting things I thought to myself as I was reading through.

Also, @farside: Why did it take you so long to come to this conclusion about Damon?

Good job SKOT, maybe we will get along after all.

Aeronaut's over-defense of a non-case is noted.

reinoe, spoiler that shit.

And BP/Scarabare back at it...

@Alina: I hope you mean you ISO'd HS instead of Clusk, otherwise this post makes zero sense. Ah, yeah, you did.Good.

This is an interesting question to ask. Probably not scum.


General note: I feel like TheAdrienC's V/LA was meant to look as if he was "gone" in the night but in reality he has posted a lot during the night on-site and last visited today (Saturday).

VOTE: AdrienC

Also, it looks like its multi-ball.

There you go. Here are my four sentences:

Read.
My.
Fucking.
Posts.

This was a rehash of your old posts so I didn't bold the repeats.

The reason people are voting you is because you are being obtuse. Yeah, I am lazy. I am too lazy to do something I have already did. You ask me to explain my suspicions in 4 sentences, I did. I can't show you every instance in which I saw him as fake in 4 sentences. That is why you need to look at each individual one (in my ISO) where I explain why that particular post is fake or wrong.

P-edit: BP is one of my town reads. The vote is likely annoyance based. I get it. They will likely change their vote I would expect. But what you are doing is just fishing for non alignment based reactions. If I were scum, I would be just as annoyed at you. So basically what you are being is a distraction.

BP's either Scum or a bad player who gets in the way of Scumhunting. Just an impediment with a bad attitude, it seems.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

If you want me to respect your words and wisdom then don't be an ass hole in the way you address people. You can find scum without being so in people's face. Hint: most of us aren't scum so stop talking to us like we are all caught-scum.

HS is scum for saying the scum/town ratio ( so we will be put off by it when he gets lynched), for saying he 'would bus Adrian' if he were scum buddies with Adrian, while a voting for Adrian, and for saying he and I couldn't be scum buddies together which is setting up for you to lynch me when he flips scum.

Adrian is scum because he is fake as fuck. I will not repost every instance of it that I noted because you can hit that little 'ISO' by name to see them. And he constantly shifts with where the wind of suspicion is floating.

P-edit: read my catchup post. I have recently finished a game where scum claimed commuter so it is highly suspect to me on top of all the other reasons I am scum reading him.

Why are you unaccepting of the bolded?

You are flat out misrepresenting me. I answered your question in 3 sentences. One or which is directing you to all the examples in my ISO. How exactly would you answer the question more succinctly? You are calling me lazy for doing what you asked.



P-edit: holy fuck you are dense. You are unaccepting of it because you have spent the past two fucking pages saying I didn't do it. So therefore I made the logical leap that you have not accepted what I said.

No, I will not do it. I have done all I am going to do for you. Go gladiator on me, I don't care. I will ignore you as will the rest of town because you are being absolutely ridiculous. It is not my problem that you can't see that.

Sorry town for the last two pages. From this point forward I will be completely ignoring wake. If anyone else feels that he has said anything that truly needs my attention then ask me and I will do my best to answer.

Right.

Why did SKOT claim?

cause I was pissed at Aegoer and is bullshit

Um...it was Salamance that pulled out your claim wasn't it? With a fake day vig.

interesting point and sheds light on the passive aggressive, wifom comments.
The whole bit with juls then really gets odd.

Vote HS.

To who/what is this directed. What point?

It wasn't a slip, it was deliberate.

Ok guys unfortunately it has come to this. I hereby hardclaim blue/nilla town and am expecting to be uncced so votes off meh~



I think Juls was onto something with his analysis in post eh 964. It was very good. It had me convinced really. I mean if I WERE MAFIA (im not, i just hard claimed blue), but IF I WERE MAFIA, I would bus adrien instantly. YES.

If HS ends up being town I will report him to the mafia gods for playing against his win condition.

1. I did not suicide
2. I did not selfvote/hammer with the intention to lose the game for town
3. I did not draw votes onto myself with the intention of getting lynched

More importantly Stop the OGI threats and ATEing which IMO is more harmful for the game

Note to self: actually Juls's interaction with me had been great had we been a maf team, Juls seems genuinely upset and I shud get towncred for fishing reactions. I mean no one would believe we are teamed even if one of us flip maf. /end note to self

@Alina -town does not say things like this. Not even troll-town.

Adrien

, where've you been? What's your take on the day's drama?

The reason I was on V/LA was a lot of work hours crammed into just a few days (it was more of a LA than the V because I wasn't on vacation, I just didn't have the necessary time to be online to be considered a regular active participant). I just got back from a 10 hour shift after a closing shift last night so I've been there all day. I'm still catching up, noticing that I still am being accused of fake (if I hear one more complaint that I'm fake, my head will 'splode). I also see we have a wagon on HS because he mentioned there being five scum (information we the town should not be privy to, so it could be a legitimate slip). I was on the wagon for HS when Clusk was lynched so I'm all for lynching HS, but Alina is right, we shouldn't rush the lynch without getting a bit more information (the only reason I'm not gonna vote yet). If HS is scum/town/SK/third party/our long lost brother, we could learn more from his flip if we don't rush it. I'm still catching up a little bit so I hope to give more thoughts soon (if not tonight, then sometime tomorrow).

Your V/LA was manufactured

to make it look like you were away in the night. You have been posting on-site.

Instead of just saying "someone else calling me fake", go read all the reasons I said you were fake in my posts and respond ok? It will even help wake cause he is too lazy to go find them.

Would you like to see my work schedule?

I have a full time job and am the mother of two (one being an infant) so that's two full time jobs. I'm not V/LA, especially not corresponding to the length of night.

This wasn't calling me fake but you sure were trying to one up me.

I noted it before you ever got here. Everything is relevant if it is on this site and your vla was.

Take your time, I am in no hurry. It will give Adrien more time to flail.

I noted it before you ever got here. Everything is relevant if it is on this site and your vla was.

Personal attacks are against MafiaScum's rules and frankly uncalled for. And before my post on here saying I was back, I hadn't posted in three days (which includes another game
I'm in). Those posts three days ago were several within a few hour window (look at my ISO if you don't believe me) when I got home from a late night at work and tried to keep up with everything. My V/LA was because of real life issues including work and attempting to find out where I'm going to live next month. So I'm going to ask one more time, please keep my personal life out of this.

I have noT attacked your personal life at all. I disbelieve that you were really vla but that is completely within the context of the game. You also logged in yesterday as I noted because your "last visited" when I was doing my catch up was yesterday (Saturday).

No, I am questioning the honesty of your vla. Big difference. Especially since you logged on yesterday while trying to say you last visited 3 days ago.

I didn't dodge anything. I answered his question, he didn't accept my answer. I wasn't going tO feed into his distracting behavior anymore. Nice non vote though on a "scum claim"

I have noT attacked your personal life at all. I disbelieve that you were really vla but that is completely within the context of the game. You also logged in yesterday as I noted because your "last visited" when I was doing my catch up was yesterday (Saturday).

DROP IT. Logging in does not mean one has the time to post, and questioning others' V/LAs is completely inappropriate, as abusing the V/LA system for factional benefit is against the rules. If you think Adrien is cheating in this manner, bring it up with the mod. But it has

no place

whatsoever in this thread.

Where is it against the rules? I have never seen that rule and personally don't think it should be against the rules. But, show me where and I will be glad to drop it. I have seen people scum hunt all the time by seeing who is online or in scum chat or last visited so I don't see how this is any different.

I didn't dodge anything. I answered his question, he didn't accept my answer. I wasn't going tO feed into his distracting behavior anymore. Nice non vote though on a "scum claim"

He asked you about an

update

. You dodged.

~tn5421

An update? I literally posted my last catchup post at the start of this day! Nothing changed.

@Adrien : Ok...so get on those responses to my walls that are about 50% about you. We got all the time in the world so take your time if you need to.

@burning - you clearly skimmed because I did answer his question. He didn't like my answer, I asked what else he wanted, he kept saying 4 sentences, I asked why my particular 3-sentence answer wasn't acceptable, he asked me why I thought he felt it was unacceptable. /facepalm. At that point I threw in the towel because he was simply being obtuse.

Where is it against the rules? I have never seen that rule and personally don't think it should be against the rules. But, show me where and I will be glad to drop it. I have seen people scum hunt all the time by seeing who is online or in scum chat or last visited so I don't see how this is any different.

Read the activity rules for this game. Attempting to circumvent them via illegitimate V/LA is a clear violation. Furthermore, Site Rules prohibit bringing outside influences, of which this is most

definitely

one, into the game. You are more than welcome to poll mods on this issue if you do not believe me.

Meh, I won't push it but I don't see anything in site wide rules or mod rules that what I am accusing Adrien of is a violation nor do I see anything that says my questioning of it is a violation. Regardless, I'm dropping it and will dig inTo this deeper behind the scenes.

@Alina - lots of people are still scum hunting.

Also everyone else can give their opinions too, not really sure why I just asked only Wake.

Damon_Gant, post 502 - second post of the game where he says he has a lot of town reads but doesn't elaborate. Two posts that are full of nothing. Anybody can say "I have a bunch of town reads. Thanks y'all, see ya later"
...
Really dislike post 589 by Damon_Gant. He just grabbed a spattering of players and posted not-very-deep commentary on him. Geez, he even looked at my slot who I think had 3 posts? And then he jumps on the flashwagon. He is now in my scum column.

No. This is typical mafia behavior on epicmafia. Spread wifom when your lynch is inevitable. Now I can't figure out why he did it before he was being voted. Perhaps he thought since he was the counter wagon yesterday that he would be pushed today.

Oh god, you guys suck for posting so much while I slept.

@Adri

E

n -no, I am not satisfied. I made more comments about you on my pages 1-18 posts. Respond to those as well. I'm headed to work now so I will be able to post but not big. I will try to retort more verbosely when I get home.

If hunter isn't happening then I am voting Adri

E

n but I'm not ready to give up on hunter yet. Being a troll does not get you a pass. Especially when he's from epic mafia. That wifom is not town. The wagon grew quickly because he is legitimately scummy. How long of a pass do we give him? What if we mislynch a town anyway? Then we still have to deal with him later. I don't think it's a mislynch but if it is it would be better to do it now before we are really in the weeds.

P-edit: yes. That is what I was trying to explain. His trolling is not town no matter which way it is sliced (I.e, town wouldn't submit that wifom)

@Those suspecting BroodKing. Does this question look like it is coming from scum? This is pretty much the reason I am town reading Brood right now.

@Broodking - why does that make boon scum but not wake? (Sorry if you already answered, this game is becoming a bit hard to catch everything)

Hey Adri

E

n, I will respond to you in detail tonight when I am on my PC but in the meantime, answer the two true/false questions below:

True or false...
1) Scum must fake interactions with townies to sound like town
2) Having fake-sounding posts is a scum tell

Reporting for what? Go ahead. I don't give a fuck. If I get mod killed or even warned for that I will replace out because that is so fucking stupid.

And I have addressed

your fakeness a lot

. Gave examples and everything. So don't be disingenuous in saying that nobody told you why you sound fake!

Addressed? Yes. Examples? A few. Explanations? Not really.

If you are getting offended by me making a point to spell your name correctly then you're way too thin skinned to play this game and this is coming from someone with pretty thin skin. Also, I did explain in some instances. I actually made a point to sense I already saw all the places with you going "duh, how am I fake?". Also, not_mafia told you that "fake" is difficult to quantify and you passed it off as if it isn't easily quantified then it can't be a tell. Like I said, I will respond in detail to all your

trash

responses when I get home. In the meantime, here's another tell for you: Appeal to Emotion. What I am doing with you is far from fucking bullying and

you are acting

FAKE

in trying to present it as such

. I have a scum read on you for lots of reasons and I am pursuing those reasons. If capitalizing and bolding your fucking E is bullying then everybody on this site is a bully. Why were people calling SKOT by SNOT not bullying? Oh...cause it wasn't you huh? I found that way more offensive than bolding a fucking E. Get over your self!

I might have miscounted but you called me fake 13 times. Gave one really bad explanation as to why. Also how can I be fake and committing AtE at the same time?

You need to admit that you hold a vendetta against me and getting a personal vendetta like this IS NOT TOWN. You are attacking me and not trying to find ACTUAL scum. Target fixation.

[TheAdrienC]

I'm torn between boonskiies who we have a strong reason to believe lied about his claim and HS who may have slipped that he knew how many mafias we have and I was pushing the lynch for last night phase. Aegor, you're pushing hard for the HS lynch: what is your read on boonskiies?

Also, reinoe, can you give me a link to a Damon Grant game so I can see his play style a bit since you seem familiar by him? I do want to be informed on why a lot of you are voting his way.

[TheAdrienC]

These posts. Teasing that you

might

have been lying kinda eliminates anyone's ability to trust anything you say.

@Burning - I'm actually starting to become more convinced that we are dealing with a third party, whether it be a werewolf gang or a SK. Which would make sense on her playstyle of being her indecisive scummy, and at the same time co-existing with town. I want to say more SK than werewolf though.

How is it more awful? Let's face it, I am not going to get NK'd because I am an easy bandwagon for scum. Simple as that. As a power role, hell yeah would to try and protect myself from a NK. I want to win. My vanilla claim is null, as it really proves nothing, and scum won't necessarily take it seriously.

PEdit: Eh, I could care much less, because I do care a little. But let's face it. I believe it should be obvious I am not scum. But she already knows I'm not scum.

@Boon Okay. But why would you claim that you're not a power role? Do you not understand how that hurts town(assuming you're town...which I'm not.)? And it's couldn't care less. Couldn't. Not could. Thanks in advance.

It doesn't hurt town. I'd much rather have someone else die in the night than myself. Dying in the night gives me no chance to give my input on scum. And I could care less...much much less.

PEditt: i totally understand that. But you have no way of proving I was lying, nor do I have indefinite proof of me telling the truth. I don't necessarily need other town on my side right now; they'll come to eventually.

And if I had lied about being vanilla, I'm not going to claim unless it will ultimately benefit the town. And with that, scum is out of the question on knowing what I am. Thanks.

Unless I lied.

See? It really doesn't affect anything. You have no way of being certain. And that's why it makes you mad, isn't it? Not sure if you should waste a NK on me now.

[TheAdrienC]

You're aware people tend the lynch the people they can't trust, right?

[TheAdrienC]

It's blatantly obvious neither of those were vig kills, and even if they are, a vig who would make either of those kills n1 is negative utility to the point that they may as well be an SK.

I think someone already pointed this out but the two deaths were people who were strongly considered town. No way a vig did that. In my opinion, if there is a vig, their target probably either got protected by farside or they went after me to test my claim.

Personally, I think it's scum/SK. I could be wrong, but that's what I'm leaning towards. Someone who is more experienced in larger games, is there a different set of tells we should be looking for in possible SKs? I'd assume they don't care who is lynched as long as it isn't them (scum would at least be uncomfortable lynching one of their own), but anything else we should be on the look out for?

[TheAdrienC]

Can you please stop that? I'm asking you respectfully.

[TheAdrienC]

Consider yourself ignored from this post on unless you post something very important. All our bickering is doing is causing a distraction.

[TheAdrienC]

Dang, you guys post a lot when I'm at work. I'm off for the next 23 hours so I'll respond to everyone and post my thoughts.

[TheAdrienC]

AdrienC has started to peak my interests a little bit more. He's become a little quiet as of late, and I'm starting to suspect his Role-Claim for "Town-Aligned Commuter" was false. First of all, I don't understand why someone would claim that role D1 at all. Adrien claims that it was because Salamence had "pressured" him into claiming, but Adrien was at L-11 at the time and had no need to be worried. That doesn't make sense to me.

So why claim? First of all, doesn't that hurt the town quite a bit? Scum could have been wasting their kills on you, and we could have higher numbers right now. We've lost that advantage now, because the scum, if they believe you, know now.

So

Adrien

, explain the reasoning behind that a little bit more?

I let Salamance get under my skin, I guess you can say. I do regret the claim because it seems like a lot of people seem to keep bringing it up and it has done neither the town nor myself any favors. Though I severely doubt the scum would be killing me since there's a lot of people around who want me lynched anyway. I know that if I was scum (which I'm not), I would be keeping the lynch targets (like myself) around. I wasn't thinking straight when I claimed.

Juls post on 1510 was some pretty damning evidence on someone I was strongly believing to be town.

Everyone read this post

And I just read a game that he was in just 5 hours ago in which he was mafia. Most games start with night on epic mafia. There was a gunsmith who gave a gun to HS. The first thing he did was come in and say "JJ hook holland he is the cop". Neither JJ or holland was mafia and he shot the real cop (basically sacrificing himself) but he put the wifom out there. In the graveyard after he was lynched, he said "how was my wifom". He literally does this. Go see for yourself. This is a scum tactic on epic mafia!

VOTE: Hunterseeker

Do you have a link to this game? If you are right about this, we might have finally gotten rid of at least one member of the scum. I've been suspicious of HS almost the entire game for reasons in my older posts. I will support this lynch 100%, replacement or not if we can the tangible, physical evidence.

(Actually, just saw your 1552 post, I'll check your ISO in a minute to find it.)

wow, sorry thought I posted, it has been busy for me lately. I also have been content with vote and really did not see anything worth commenting on.

And you guys thought my "Hey, I'm back" posts were bad...

Also, it seems like a lot of people are twisting up who the hammer was in Day One. Aegor posted with the INTENT that his vote was the hammer. Apparently none of us knew how to count and NOT_MAFIA ended up actually hammering him in the end. The fact Aegor MEANT to hammer clusk does have to be remembered but keep in mind that I did post that I was willing to do it but was giving the replacement a chance to get in and Not_Mafia posted the actual hammering vote on a naked vote. So BP's 1534 does have some validity but at the same time, Aegor has some strong points against HS because it is not his first game out of newbton. The sheeping, the WIFOM, and his disappearance does have to be taken into account. Aegor is also right that lurkers can be town, can be scum. Lynch all lurkers isn't always the best policy but it is a thing because it occasionally gets it right...I just recommend do it more carefully.

Not_Mafia's recent posts on his ISO isn't making me very comfortable. I think his last post that he posted that I really liked was 1080. He hasn't really contributed to the game a whole lot ever since then.

My next post should have a vote in it.

[TheAdrienC]

I looked into HS's meta on EM...I think Juls is right despite how much we've disagreed about pretty much everything else. Maybe it was because I was suspicious of him the entire time and saw everything with a biased viewpoint but until his replacement comes in, I do think this is where my vote should go for the time being.

Vote: HunterSeeker

Just because the body's cold doesn't mean you can't hoist it up on a rope

What. The. Fuck?

[TheAdrienC]

Okay. So HS is now at L-3. I am curious about what his replacement has to say. We may as well wait for that to happen, so no one lynch, please.

We have plenty of time left, but unless someone strongly opposes the HS lynch or feels that someone else is much, much scummier, I do not mind ending the day early.

So... We're apparently lynching a guy who mostly lurked on bad meta based around EM.

What is your better idea?

Like when Clusk was going to be replaced and you voted with the intention of your vote to hammer him?

[TheAdrienC]

Juls post on 1510 was some pretty damning evidence on someone I was strongly believing to be town.

Did you not read the rest of the thread or do you just not understand grammar either? ._.

I did not vote for you, did I? We're all going to have SOMETHING on us if we survive in this game long enough. I'm just saying that you appeared way too perfect until this point and now you got your hands dirty like the rest of us.

I'm not saying you're scum. I'm just saying you're not "absolutely confirmed town" like most of us believed you were.

[TheAdrienC]

And I have been playing like this in almost every game I've been in. haha. And I am not playing cautious at all, so good luck on that.

This post makes me uncomfortable.

[TheAdrienC]

As much as I want this game to move on, stuff is seemingly happening now. I didn't feel quite right voting Hunter yet, but meh. Granted, I'll probably hammer if it gets to L-1. For the sake of hammering.

It's at L-1.

Actually, he's at L-2 thanks to Boon unvoting.

[TheAdrienC]

One more vote and Boon keeping his word, he's as good as lynched. As it was said many times, this lynch is inevitable. We just need to learn from whatever his flip ends up being.

[TheAdrienC]

Juls, are you calling an Aero/HS scumteam?

If they were the same scumteam, Aero would have probably bussed him a long time ago.

[TheAdrienC]

Adrien, notscience's entry was whack, as you noted with your WTF comment. Do you have any opinions on the slot?

Whacky and I do not think he's caught up (hence his comments about Salamance being scum even though he's already flipped). DG was definitely guilty of lurking and not exactly being helpful but then again, he might have lost interest, was never paying attention, or some sort of null reason. Notscience is posting enough for us to be able to eventually get a read on him, though it has definitely been strange posts but I haven't gotten a very good read on him quite yet. I hope he catches up soon and maybe we can get an accurate read on him by the beginning of Day 3.

For right now, he's in the middle of the pack of my read list for lack of information.

[TheAdrienC]

@Adrien:

Please share your thoughts on this post:

Juls, are you talking about this post?

Juls hasn't been satisfied with anything I've said and just keeps giving me the same arguments (i.e. he shouldn't have to say he was a town tracker, you posted information without analysis). I'm getting nowhere with getting her to change her tunnel visioning vendetta against me and I doubt anything I can say will ever change her mind about me. So I'm not wasting my time on a lost cause. There's nothing to gain for arguing with her about the same points over and over again all the while being treated with absolutely zero respect from her as a person rather than a player. So I'm just done with Juls.

[TheAdrienC]

Adrien, notscience's entry was whack, as you noted with your WTF comment. Do you have any opinions on the slot?

Whacky and I do not think he's caught up (hence his comments about Salamance being scum even though he's already flipped). DG was definitely guilty of lurking and not exactly being helpful but then again, he might have lost interest, was never paying attention, or some sort of null reason. Notscience is posting enough for us to be able to eventually get a read on him, though it has definitely been strange posts but I haven't gotten a very good read on him quite yet. I hope he catches up soon and maybe we can get an accurate read on him by the beginning of Day 3.

For right now, he's in the middle of the pack of my read list for lack of information.

Translation: notscience is my scum buddy but I want to show enough hesitation so that I can bus him later but not so much that it actually sways anyone to lynch him.

Is that why his first vote casted when he came in was on me?

[TheAdrienC]

Put yourself in my shoes about all this.

[TheAdrienC]

How many suspected Clusk last day phase? Majority isn't always right.

[TheAdrienC]

Ok guys unfortunately it has come to this.

I hereby hardclaim blue/nilla town

and am expecting to be uncced so votes off meh~



I think Juls was onto something with his analysis in post eh 964. It was very good. It had me convinced really. I mean if I WERE MAFIA (im not, i just hard claimed blue), but IF I WERE MAFIA, I would bus adrien instantly. YES.

Juls is right about HS's claim

[TheAdrienC]

How many suspected Clusk last day phase? Majority isn't always right.

Who/what is this directed at?

The time I wrote it, it was after you compared how many suspect me vs how many suspect you.

[TheAdrienC]

Never said I that I actually suspect you. I think my judgment on you is compromised by all the crap we're going through this day phase.

[TheAdrienC]

I've watched Adrien come online for a few minutes and then go offline again. Adrien, start responding to the questions you've been ignoring.

I read when I have a few seconds between customers at work off my iPhone. If I can't make a meaningful response from the phone, I'm not going to post at all. I'm going to go through the posts directed at me.

[TheAdrienC]

Thoughts on Day 3 posts so far...

VOTE: Adrien

Naked vote again. We are way too late in the game for us be using naked votes.

So,

vote: Aegor

And another...

Hmm.....

I dunno about Boon, to be honest. I think he's just being obnoxious.

I've watched Adrien come online for a few minutes and then go offline again. Adrien, start responding to the questions you've been ignoring.

P-edit:

Yea, Aegor pushed that lynch extremely hard. From the start of D2, he wanted HS quicklynched as quickly as possible.

Of course, he wasn't the only one on that wagon. I just don't like how much he pushed for it when there were clearly some scummier people to lynch. My vote is between him and Adrien at the moment. Waiting for both of them to say something before I do anything though.

PP-edit: Realistically, I don't know if we were ever going to get a replacement.

That is something that definitely cannot be ignored right now.

Reading Reinoe's ISO, there's not a whole lot of conclusions that can be drawn without a lot of assumptions, really.There were only two things I saw of note.

1.

Reinoe defends SKOT without much real evidence except that "admitting to an unorthadox playstyle is very townie", and that Reinoe had played with SKOT in unnamed other games, and that it was normal. Again, not a whole lot of conclusion to draw here, just something to keep in mind.

2. Reinoe calls out Boonskies a few times, which would be unnessesary if they were scum buddies. Of course, it could've been an act, but Reinoe provides some solid evidence against Boon, or it seems pretty solidish to me, so I don't think they were together. That being said, we don't know if it's multiball or no, but if we find out there's an SK or vig, we should come back to this.

Reinoe on Boon vvv

Boon, due to events that took place in OPEN 562 I no longer believe that you're just a VI playing VI. I believe that you're scum.


The tl/dr is that we had a player in that game playing the VI but a lot of people were saying he was "too scummy to be scum". However not only was that player scum, he was a Serial Killer.

Now the common perception is that people will not play in such a way because it greatly increases the probability that they'll wind up getting lynched. The common perception is that Serial Killers will especially play cautiously. But what a learning experience that was.

VOTE: Boonskiies

I'm going to come back on this SKOT quote...I have a hunch involving him...

Now, my thoughts about the game in general...

My gut feeling is that there is only one actual "mafia" group because of the way Reinoe's flip was worded. I agree when NM said that this is either SK, werewolves, or a really good shot from a vig. We can eliminate something I think I've only seen once on a game outside of this site years ago where it was one scum faction with two night kills. Someone from the mafia did not kill there own godfather.

I have a question involving the tracker results. Assuming there's 2-4 mafia members remaining, how does their kill go through? Is there a designated member of the scum who delivers all their night kills or do they only send one to do it or does it show them visiting their NK if you track any one of them? Reason why I ask is because anyone who isn't shown to visit anyone could be a scum person who just didn't deliver the kill, right? Not saying I believe NM is scum, I'm just saying that tracker results in general will only be conclusive at someone's innocence or guilt is if they were caught visiting a person who was killed, right?

The quote I said I was gonna come back to about SKOT. Every single PR from the town we have had flip from the town had an even/odd night modifier with it. SKOT's claim, if I recall correctly, was a full tracker claim. That is drawing a red flag on my radar.

I know Aero went over Reinoe's ISO but I want to do it as well to see if maybe I catch something he might have missed.

I'm done playing defensive and getting sick of it. The last few phases I've been playing defense and trying to respond to accusations. I'm done with that. It's time for me to find scum so I can actually be of use instead of just a warm body with a vote.

[TheAdrienC]

Some things I'm noticing on Reinoe's ISO:

1. I dunno if my brain is just noticing this because their alignments are already revealed but he seems to have gone after a lot of our deceased players. Clusk, Hunterseeker, DG/notscience...

2. He seemed to be on Wake's back a lot during the early stages of the game. I'll acknowledge that it could be very skillful distancing but my read on Wake improved a little bit after going through this. Though there is more than one faction doing some killing so we could be looking at just the opposite killer. I doubt Wake was on the same team as Reinoe.

3. My opinion on the Boonksiies part of Aero's analysis is similar to what I said about Wake. It's either skillful distancing, werewolf/SK, or Boon might actually be a good guy.

4. I've kinda given my SKOT opinion already. In fact, I'm actually going to go ahead and

Vote: SKOT

. He had no reason or evidence to defend SKOT and with no real pressure on him (most people, myself included, felt like Reinoe was town most of the game). Was he not expecting to die anytime soon and for us to be sniffing around SKOT. I think the chances of them being buddies is probable.

Does anyone have a link to a game Reinoe has done as scum?

Also, another thought I just had was this gem:
Who would NK a player such as Reinoe who (though he ended up being scum) appeared to be town? I think this is a SK/WW...not a vig.

[TheAdrienC]

Hmm

I have to admit that I thought Reinoe was town. Looking back at his posts isn't very informative in regards to who he may be scum with either.

It's easier to discern players he probably wasn't aligned with, but these are also of limited use as there is still a very clear possibility of multiple scum factions.

The only observation I'd be willing to commit on is that he probably isn't on a team with Wake.

I also kind of think those nightkills make sense if there were two scumteams looking for one another. This would be an opportune time to do so as there are already a lot of townie bodies on the ground.

I agree with...well, all of this. Although I think if they were scumteams looking for eachother there are better targets out there. ALTHOUGH I suppose they could be leaving the obvious ones outside their own faction alive as lynch fodder?

@Adrien What's your hunch regarding SKOT? I'm curious. What do you mean by the way his flip was worded proves there's only one group? I was thinking the opposite. I assume that there are two scum factions and one shot notscience and one shot Reinoe...am I missing something w/the wording?

I think the Mafia designates someone to send to do the kill and they show up as the person visiting. So yes, NM could still easily be scum. He just didn't kill anybody. Unless SKOT and him are scumbuddies and are lying or something.

The quote I said I was gonna come back to about SKOT. Every single PR from the town we have had flip from the town had an even/odd night modifier with it. SKOT's claim, if I recall correctly, was a full tracker claim. That is drawing a red flag on my radar.

Do you have an even/odd night modifier? No need to say which you are, but do you have one?

My hunch is that his claim was a lie. Everyone else was a even/odd doctor or vig...he claimed he was a straight tracker...no odd/even. As for mine, I didn't outright say it in my claim, but I heavily hinted that I was an odd night commuter. I was daring someone to try to NK me on NIGHT ONE before Sally drew out my claim. I'm just as safe tonight. Last night was a chance for someone to get me.

P-Edit: I did not notice that until you said something. We are DEFINITELY dealing with some sort of secondary evil.

[TheAdrienC]

He could have been back tracking after we saw the odd/even modifier. I did my breadcrumb of my modifier before we even saw any flips.

Long story short: SKOT is the lynch for the day.

[TheAdrienC]

Is a lynch on you during this day phase likely? Probably not. And you know what, I hope to GOD you waste your mafia/vig night kill or your inspection or roleblocking or whatever the hell power you have during the night

because if you try that crap on Night 1 with me, you're wasting a night. Did I just breadcrumb my role? I don't even care.

I just want you to get off your high horse and realize "Oh, I might have been wrong" because those are the mafia players who sicken me: those who can't admit they might actually be wrong. It's Day One. We know absolutely nothing at this point unless we have a day inspector which I don't see happening in a normal game.

[TheAdrienC]

That post was made when Salamence was really under my skin and I posted it in frustration.

[TheAdrienC]

Adrien or Aeronaut

are you going to explain your suspicions this time, or are you going to continue to post single sentences with no substance at all?

Go over his ISO. That's all he does.

[TheAdrienC]

Alina and Boon is Town vs Town. Also Alinskiies is easier to say, the extra A in the middle makes it sound kind of disjointed.

@Adrien & Aero
Just to be clear are either of you actually calling NM scum? Or are you just making indirect cuts at his credibility?

Scum, maybe...maybe not. But I trust him less and less the more he posts without saying much.

[TheAdrienC]

Nah my vote is on Adrien for as long as he refuses to respond to the case on him

Let me go over how this process has been working, you little sheep. You guys attack. I respond to the attack. Someone counter attacks. I respond back to that. Then there's another counter attack and another attack and another attack and all I have been doing for a day phase and a half was defending myself and honestly, I'm not going to help find scum that way. I haven't been able to actually participate in any sort of scumhunting because I have to spend all my time telling people why I said something a certain way that they thought was fake. Frankly, it's getting exhausting.

Now, I have provided actual evidence based on the fact SKOT's claim doesn't match up with the other town PRs that have flipped and he is still alive. Why don't you focus on that instead of the "bad vibe" people got from my posts and everyone else decided to just sheep to it.

OR maybe you can do this thing that a lot of people in this game would prefer you to do and to actually think independently for once instead of sheeping Juls or Alina or anyone else.

[TheAdrienC]

FoS: Am_Mafia

You mind explaining that?

[TheAdrienC]

I'm actually not sure what whiteknighting is. Is it when scum tries to protect townie?

Something like that. It's when a scum, who knows that someone is town, basically defends a townie so that they look more town by protecting the townie.

P-Edit: Ninja'd

[TheAdrienC]

And with that naked vote, my vote stands.

[TheAdrienC]

I'm going over SKOT's ISO and I know a lot of people have been attributing his (what I think is) scummy play to his play style from playing on another site but here's a quick summary of his posts.

On post 152, he says he will hammer Wake if he is at L-1 and in the same post, mentions he doesn't think Wake is scum. On 158, he tries to defend it by saying he's from another site and that's just how he plays. 162, he criticizes shadow for calling out Wake's hypocrisy like a lot of us were. 163, OMGUS vote on Aegor after he called for SKOT to be PL and then calls Aegor a bully. Oh and he called Aegor town in the exact same post. On post 170, he criticizes Aegor for his aggressive play (who else was criticized at this point for having an overly aggressive play style?). 181, he defends his aggressive style to me once more (noticing a pattern yet?). 197, congrats, he doesn't have any reads. 319, randomly and unexplainable votes for now-confirmed town, Salamence. 336, claims tracker. Not even/odd tracker. Just tracker. Next few posts were justifying why he claimed. He votes for scarab on post 452, not sure why because he never explains it. 715, he demands Cabd gives a reason why Salamence pressured me into claiming. 889, he votes Clusk, who ends up being a lynched VT.

First D2 post (986) was a vote for me after Juls and NM throw one on me. And says he didn't get any information from N1, not necessarily saying he "couldn't track anyone". 1007, he unvotes. 1011, complains about this site's meta. 1014, calls Juls a bully for pushing a HS lynch. 1015, hints he is an even night tracker after the even-night vig (Cabd) and odd-night doctor (farside) flipped. 1019-1027, whiteknighting alert? 1118, THEN VOTES FOR THE GUY HE WAS DEFENDING. Posts mostly uninteresting, responsive posts after that, most interesting of which is prodding Aegor once more and saying he could get on board with lynching Boon.

Day 3, post 1848, gives his result on NotMafia, deciding to track someone who was a consensus town player. 1884, he claims he chose him because of vote placement. Defends his claim then a naked vote on Aero.

What I haven't seen: Him making any effort whatsoever to find scum and the fact he hasn't been NK'd after claiming an investigative PR.

My vote remains. SKOT is the smart lynch for the day.

[TheAdrienC]

Aero...this is the lynch. Put your vote on it. You know this guy needs to be strung up.

[TheAdrienC]

Adrien - I really like his Post #2037. I don't like that it seems he basically took my read on him and ran with it (I know others have said similar things too, I'm just using mine since it was the most recent). He never even acknowledged my read, and his next post with actual content appears to be scumhunting (There was one post about his vote standing because of SKOT's naked vote before this one).

I figured actions spoke louder than words.

[TheAdrienC]

INB4 scum/SK flip

[TheAdrienC]

A

[TheAdrienC]

E

[TheAdrienC]

Hm... Now that's odd.

Juls, why'd you do that? I don't know if Scum would deliberately do something so anti-Town, but it sure was dumb of you to do that.

Agreed. I was very put-off by the fact that Hunterseeker flipped town. I didn't like SKOT lurking or his night choice target. When I saw you trying to slow/stop the lynch I decided to reaction test to see reactions to the hammer. I didnt like Aeronaut's or AdrienC's.

VOTE: Aeronaut but would gladly vote Adrien.

Is it common for people to cover up their mistakes by claiming reaction test? I'm not buying this.

I have just skimmed the past few pages. I'm fine with a SKOT lynch. Also, remind me who not science replaced? The OP doesn't say.

Intent.

I'm also not buying this as intent. People were clearly saying "Don't do this yet." Your trigger finger got way too itchy, something I would expect from scum who wanted to just hammer the town, pick off another during the night and put us at an insanely more difficult disadvantage.

Mr. Revisionist, he was at L-1 when I said that. There were

literally 2 hours between my intent post and my hammer

. It's not a BS reason for a hammer but I agree I could have been less careless. I apologize to SKOT for that.

It was a spur of the moment

decision due in part to frustration with being unable to get back into this game since HS flipped town.

I am fine with being lynched, I am only a VT as long as you are tomorrow's lynch.

I bolded the two main points here. One, you really think 2 hours is long enough for hammering an offline but active player even if we count that really passive "Oh...I guess we can lynch him" post as an intent. And secondly, if that really was "intent", then two hours later isn't really spur of the moment. That's pre-meditated.

Does it even matter? Even if I hadn't have posted my intent it wouldn't have changed what I did. I did it for the reasons I noted regardless if intent was there or not. By saying I was ok with it I was letting you all know that I wasn't opposing it.

Yes, it matters. Because of what you did, we lost SKOT, Alina, and Not Mafia. I wanted to lynch SKOT just as much as the rest of us, I understand that, but I was not asking for the day phase to end that quickly. We could have discussed it more, SKOT could have defended himself, and there was a chance my mind could have been changed. What's done is done, but the only information we got from that lynch was from YOUR quick hammer.

I'm about to leave for work and I'm not going to put my vote on Juls just yet (I'm leery about another speedy run up). But I'm pretty convinced this is the way to go. If she's at L-1 when I get back, consider me intending to hammer, though only after we discuss it a bit more.

[TheAdrienC]

Brood replaced out on a game today.

[TheAdrienC]

VOTE: Boonskiies

~tn5421

Mind explaining that?

[TheAdrienC]

Are you saying Boon is where you think we should go next day phase, Brood?

[TheAdrienC]

Did Juls just accuse 5 people?

[TheAdrienC]

It's funny, you made jokes about me flailing...

And I said I would hammer Juls, Aero.

[TheAdrienC]

No, that being a reads list is as easy to buy as your reaction test hammer claim. You're clearly freaking out and getting hysterical. Forget hammering, I'm voting now.

Vote: Juls

[TheAdrienC]

@Adrien
Perhaps you didn't hear me the first time, why didn't you vote Juls if you thought she was scum.

Yeah, I missed it when you asked. I was leery about a quick run up after what happened last phase without any discussion going on before the lynch was final. My vote is on her now though.

[TheAdrienC]

You should consider doing what you're actually telling us to do. Your vote isn't on BP either.

[TheAdrienC]

My posts are shorter because they are exclusively coming from my phone. Home net just went down and I'm about to move anyway. I'm considering a V/LA

[TheAdrienC]

I'll look over the case on BP when I have a bigger screen to work with.

[TheAdrienC]

If he flips town, I'm voting Aegor. If he flips scum, if we do have an even doc, protect him!

Vote: BP

[TheAdrienC]

You're about to lose my vote too, Aegor, with all due respect. If he's not the cop then I can't blindly sheep him saying he's 1000% sure on BP.

I haven't unvoted yet because I'm considering your gambit that one of the two of you is scum and maybe if it led to you flipping scum the next day phase, it lessens the pain of another Aegor run mislynch.

[TheAdrienC]

Aegor, if BP flips scum, who is scum? Also, if he flips town, who is scum?

[TheAdrienC]

If we get rid of the assumed SK, at least we will only have one dead townie every night. Though the chances of crossfire is out the window.

[TheAdrienC]

And now we wait.

[TheAdrienC]

I hope he doesn't. At least let him be the SK even though, as Mirhawk pointed out, the crossfire might benefit us.

[TheAdrienC]

Dat crossfire! At least the mafia itself should be crippled by now. Wake, since you're the one who has been analyzing set-up, how many scums of either faction do you think are left?