Mafia 60: Face-to-Face - Game over!
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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Something like that.
I'm guessing our last two scums are likely among {Zindaras, CES, Nightfall}.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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I think we should lynch Nightfall and ask for an overnight modkill on Zindaras. Who's with me? <.<-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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I think I could see Nightfall/MBL, actually. I need to go re-read MBL to see how feasable that actually is.
I could still see Zindie/CES, Nightfall/CES, or Nightfall/Zindie, too. Considering moving my vote to Nightfall, but I really, really, *REALLY* think that we need to hear back from Zindaras soon.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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Actually, yeah, MBL/Nightfall is looking really good right now. After isolating MBL's posts, he really never says much against Nightfall other than "thin contribution" early on. He defends Nightfall against Ether, saying that Nightfall's analysis is more substantial than that of "any other player" in the very same paragraph where he passively notes that Nightfall failed to analyze anyone between MGM and Zindaras, alphabetically. He later posits that Ether is scum for her stance against Nightfall. It seems to me that MBL has commented more readily on just about every other player, and he's asked critical questions of other player's posts/analyses. The extent of his questioning Nightfall is in Post 706 where he more voices disagreement than a critical question of Nightfall's posting habits. I don't really buy his "I was trying to obfuscate the situation because I thought you were being too obvious as a Cop" attitude. It doesn't seem like something that makes any sense to me, and it looks like a really weak explanation of why he defended CDB early on like that. His defense is entirely contingent upon us believing that he's a pro-town palyer who decided (even after calling CDB's wagon "suspiciously scum-driven") that I was the Cop. Unfortunately, none of us can take that on face-value. I find it just as likely that MBL *is* scum and that he knew CDB was doomed to failure. I think that once I dropped the cop-hints, he went back and looked at my posts and realized why I all of a sudden trusted Fritzler. And that's why I think Fritz was nightkilled instead of me.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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Unvote, Vote: Nightfall
Definitely more confident in Nightfall than in MBL... I'm willing to put MBL off until we learn Nightfall's alignment. But I'm glad that I've sparked some additional interest. I'm becoming increasingly convinced that Nightfall is today's play, and that the fallout from his lynch will really help steer us from here on out.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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MBL: My vote for Ether was pure pressure. I wanted her to post something significant. I liked her case against Nightfall, I've had lingering suspicions of Nightfall (in spite of the fact that I also found Ether somewhat suspicious). All of this was lost in the crash.
I have also already explained why I thought Fritz was a cop: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 406#574406
I was not picking up any coptells from CES, and Thesp was certainly not behaving like a Cop. Mostly, though, it's the fact that Fritz's "X is pro-town" play is soexclusivelya sign that he's a Cop (or, at least, that he has reliable role information) that I couldn't see him doing it as either a Townie or a Mafiate.
I would also like to point out that your comment me saying "I still believe Thesp is pro-town" is a misrepresentation. The wordstillis in there because I was responding to CES's point that Thesp misreported deadline lynch rules. If you look at the context of that post, it should be fairly clear that the sentence reads "Even though Thesp told us the wrong deadline-lynch rules, I believe that he is pro-town." The "still" should read "in spite of X."
I like what you're trying to do with the whole "look at you suddenly turn on CDB" thing. But you're pretty much completely wrong. First of all, even if I were scum and thought FritzCop and ThespTown, that would give me no incentive to suddenly want to bus CDB. Thesp was the only person attacking CDB at the time; Fritz didn't start voting CDB until I basically told him to do so. I don't understand how realizing Fritz was a Cop would suddenly give me the drive to bus CDB. Secondly, I can say with 100% confidence and honesty that if I thought Fritz were a cop during my re-read, it wouldNOTchange my opinions that much as scum. Look back at Mafia 49 when I correctly picked out FritzCop as scum and said or did *NOTHING* to change my stance. I reported to my scumbuddies that night and we killed him. Plain and simple. It makes no sense whatsoever for me to go "Hay, I know Fritz is the Cop and I'm changing my stance because of it" as scum. Continue along the same track (going after Zindie/CES mostly) and just off Fritz quietly in the night.
However, your case isn't quite the same. When you came to your realization, there was already a substantial voting bloc (Thesp, Glork, Fritz) on CDB -- and you *KNEW* that none of us would be moving, because Fritz knew Thesp was town and I knew that both were town (both cases barring ThespGF, of course). You haveeveryreason to jump aboard and try to gain some footing with that bloc, which is why it makes far more sense for you to be the CDB-buser than me.
MBL, what do you think of the interactions between me and CDB during Days 1 and 2? Do you think they're indicative of a scumpairing?-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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Zindaras wrote:I'm having such a horrible week.
I'll review pre-deadline.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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Thesp, you should seriously vote for Nightfall.
MBL, I'd like to hear a response to my most recent post. I'd also like you to drop the hammer on your scumbuddy Nightfall.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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I don't really have anything to say about you. You're already voting Nightfall, so I don't need to tell you to do so. And you're less likely than MBL to be scum, so I don't need to remind everybody of that fact.
You just like the attention, don't you?-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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*shrug*
I don't see why what he did is "horribly scummy." Hedidmake a point in that you were still avoiding any kind of List of Suspcions. Though his CDB comment was a little over-the-top, I don't necessarily see that as an indication of scumminess.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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I posted this in V/LA, but I'm going to haveseverelyreduced access over the next 8-10 days. I'm still going to try to post in all of my games every other day or so.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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I agree with CES that we should lynch somebody today. Furthermore, Zindaras seems to be back on-site, so here's hoping that he actually makes that lifesaving post in the next day and a half or so.
Patrick, would you rather lynch Nightfall or CES? I would obviously prefer Nightfall, but if that's not going to happen, I'd move to CES before the deadline.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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MBL, could you please point out what post(s) Nightfall has made that "scum could not possibly make" and could you explain exactly why you don't think he could/would post as such if he were scum?-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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EBWODP: Actually, do the same with Patrick, Ether, and MGM, too, please.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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....
Pro-Tip, MBL: When you find something definitive as "no person could make this post as scum,"note where you found this tell.I would think that by now, you'd realize that making such a bold statement would eventually elicit an inquiry or two as to what extreme pro-town tell you found.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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Patrick wrote:Vote: Zindarasno reason not to go back to my top suspect with deadline extended.Glork wrote:Why?-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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I don't know about Zindaras yet. I want summary cases against him so that, in the next few days, I can review them myself and see where I actually stand. I've wavered on Zindaras a lot lately, and more than anything I just wish he were around to answer the questions being asked of him. My only thought right now is that if he's not going to show up, and if he'll be modkilled at the end of the day, we might as well lynch him now and potentially save ourselves from having to No-Lynch down the road.
Nightfall's posts bother me. If you'll notice, his most recent suspicions have been CES, Glork (to a lesser extent), and Ether. I find it interesting that in Post 1326, the VC shows the three of us voting Nightfall, and in 1328, Nightfall continues his quest against Ether (they've been sparring all game) but adds that last sentence that Glork/CES are "giving [him] grave concerns." It feels like nothing more than mass OMGUS to me. Everyone who suspects Nightfall is suspicious. Nightfall, could you recap your case against CES please? Why do you think he is scum? Why do you want him lynched?
I'm also waiting for MBL to outline his case against Zindaras. I am especially interested in hearing his opinions.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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I'd still rather be lynching MBL and Nightfall. I refuse to switch to Zindaras at this point. I'm alsostillwaiting for MBL to restate his case against Zindaras.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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The hell, MBL? I dropped my case against Zindie long ago, and I've got my sights setsquarelyon you and Nightfall. I think that I've made thisabundantly clearby now.
I will also point out that you never bothered to go back and look for any of the "posts which no scum could possibly make" that you said you would try to do.
Unvote, Vote: MBL
Your aversions to my inquiries end here and now. Answer to me or I will do nothing but call for your lynch until one of us is dead. You're scum and I know it and the fact that you're getting away with doingnothingis really starting to piss me off.
Patrick, Thesp, Ether, CES -- take a long, hard look at MBL's posts. I want you to speak up and tell me whatyouthink of him. Because I feel like with all the shit MBL is spewing, he's just being completely overlooked. Look at his behavior towards CDB. Look at his interactions with Nightfall and with other living players. Look at his "case" against Zindaras. And for the love of God, if you think he's still pro-town after all of that, please explain it to me.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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Come to think of it, your post doesn't even makesense at this point, considering I had just said that I would REFUSE to move to Zindaras. I don'tANYHAVEa case against Zindaras. In fact, I'm practicallyDEFENDINGhim, because I feel tha this absence is being taken advantage of by somebody (namely you, MBL) who wants to stall the day and result in a Zindaras-lynch or a No-Lynch+ZindieModkill.
I also want you to tell me, MBL, who you'll be looking at if Zindaras is today's only death and he turns out to bepro-town. What happens if you're wrong?
So... just to repeat myself and make things completely, 100% clear, I want you to answer three things to me immediately:
1) What posts did people make that you think "no scum could make"?
2) Why do you think that Zindaras is a scumbag and that he should be lynched?
3) Where would your suspicions lie if Zindaras were lynched today as a pro-town player?
I'm sick of this "you're not looking, so I'm not going to tell you" attitude. After the shit you pulled with CDB -- claiming you saw something "naughty" in his posting and telling people to go look for it, and then backtracking to say that you were bluffing all along -- I'm not going to accept any of this "go look for it yourself" attitude. I want you to answer me clearly, directly, and concisely.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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You know what, <<EXPLETIVE DELETED>> it, I'm just going to keep on going with this. I also knowfor a factthat Zindaras' activity across the board has practically disappeared in the past month. I've known him since we were on MafiaScum, and I know that he's got Real-Life issues that are preventing him from participating. The fact that he kept trying to come back and run analyses is something that I now see as a distinctpro-townsign, rather than a scumtell. It says that he was trying to contribute even when he knew he couldn't keep up. This "way Zindaras keeps floating in and out" bullshit that MBL was spewing when he said Zindie was 40% likely to be scum (yes, I just went back and glanced at MBL's earlier posts) comes from nothing. It comes from the fact that MBL is taking advantage of the fact that Zindaraswantedto be here, butisn't.
Perhaps by now he's just given up. I don't know. I'd like him to come in and, if nothing else, answer that for us. But I no longer for a second believe that he is scum, and I will not stand for us to sit back doing nothing while he gets lynched or modkilled. Zindaras' absence isNOTHINGlike Nightson's absence in the late portions of Space Monkey Mafia. He isn't scum. I don't know how many more times I can say that.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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Heh. Strange response, CES.
Let's just say that if I were a vig, I'd be killing MBL overnight. I'll either be like 95% confident or back down to 50% confident after he responds. But for now, I think he is definitely the play of the day. I think that MBL has a lot to answer for.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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Well yes, but I have been known to be over-accusatory towards MBL before, so I'm trying to take into account the fact that his playstyle is just off-putting to me.
I also see Nightfall as my other top lynch candidate, but we can't seem to get more than two people to vote for him. I want one of them lynched today, and I won't move my vote elsewhere.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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...at least I'll very, very likely get an answer to my Question #3.... I still want MBL to answer both Questions 1 and 2 -- yes, even the one about him outlining his case against Zindaras.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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...so your defense is essentially "I was wrong, but the scums were sitting back not attacking Zindaras so I'm not scum." Am I missing something?
MBL, I demand that if you go to lynch anybody today, it's me. I'd rather die and have my alignment revealed to everybody so that they can take you down in a fiery salvo tomorrow. I think you know that once I'm revealed as town, your house of cards will collapse all around you. Ever since the day started, you've accused me of being scum, but you still refuse to lay a vote down on me. I think it's for one of two reasons: You're worried that you can't actually get anybody else to follow you for a mislynch; or you're petrified that once I'm revealed as a pro-town entity, it will bedamningfor you as a player.
My old case against Zindaras was laid out long ago, back on Day Three when I was making my analyses. I posited that he was scum for his own rights, and I eventually connected him to CDB when I decided that CDB was likely scum. However, as today progressed, I obviously moved away from that stance. You say that I'm being opportunistic by going after Nightfall and yourself, yet you were the one pushing a lynch against an inactive player without making a substantial (or even well-defined) case of your own.
Did you ever stop to think for maybe just one second that the reason nobody would put forth a case against Zindaras is because players slowly realized that said case was little more than steam? That, combined with Ether's post (which was lost in the crash) convinced me that Nightfall was probably scum, and you (along with a re-read of interactions between you/CDB and you/Nightfall) have convinced me with your recent actions that you are the other scumbag. If you bothered to read the thread, you would notice why other players' suspicions have waned. The reason that Zindaras wasn't getting lynched is not because scum were too afraid to do it. It's because as it turns out, none of the Townies (except Patrick and, to a lesser extent, Ether IIRC)reallyactually thought that Zindie was scum when all was said and done.
You accuse me of not diligently hunting scum in the past day. I will admit that my activity today has not been up to snuff. I mostly blame graduation. But I think I proved mydiligenceyesterday when I read through some 27 pages, noted everything that looked interesting to me, found the Cop, decided Thesp was scum, voted for CDB, and got Fritz to follow me onto CDB -- whicheventuallyled to his demise.
You also say you wanted to hear my DEFENSE of Zindaras. I gave it to you. I fulfilled your desire. What do you think of that defense? You say nothing about it -- nothing at all, except your unfounded repetition that I'm acting weird, thatyouwanted to see what everyoneelsehad to say. I find it more-than-alarming that while you use this as your excuse for saying nothing, you attack *ME* for doing essentially the same thing. Yes, I said that I wanted opinions to formulate my own opinion. That was... a half-truth. I was already moving away from Zindaras, but I wanted to seewhypeople were attacking Zindaras becausemotiveandintentare important at this stage. I said that if we were going to pussy-foot around and do nothing, that we might as well just lynch Zindaras, because Zindie getting modkilled would likely mean a forced no-lynch the following day. I meant that 100%. Now it *does* look as though (unless you get lynched today and Nightfall the day after) we're going to have to no-lynch before this game is over. Either that or we can just deal with a 6p or 4p endgame. *shrug*
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Note, everyone, that in a lengthy post attacking me,mytactics, trying to discreditmycase against him, saying thatmybehavior doesn't ring true, he slips in one "likely scum" comment about CES and Ether, and votes for CES.
His tactic is obvious: Push a mislynch against CES, push a mislynch against Ether (or Thesp/MGM, if one of them becomes more opportune), then go all-out against me in endgame.
If you think I'm a dirty birdy, MBL, I demand that you put your money where your mouth is right now. Don't save me for endgame. Lynch metoday. I dare you.
In fact, I'm going to suggest to the rest of the town that we lynch one of MBL/me today. It's obvious that there is a scumbag who wasastuteenough to notice that Fritz -- not Glork -- was the last power role remaining, because Fritz -- not Glork -- was killed last night. I acknowledged having recognized FritzCop yesterday. MBL has acknowledged having thought about the Cop situation yesterday (though he'd probably try to pass it off as me being "obvious" with my Cop-tells). We are both very, very observant players. It is extraordinarily likely that one of us is a scumbag.-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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MBL, this is the second time you have accused me of a slip-of-the-tongue in this game. I'm stating my observations from my perspective. I think that you and Nightfall are the scums, meaning that yes, Ether and Patrick would be Townies. I didn't mention Thesp because I do not recall if he had voiced substantial suspicions of Zindaras. All I remember is that he seems dead-set on lynching CES, and I have not re-read today's happenings in great detail -- in fact, I've mostly focused on your isolated posts.
Furthermore, I would call both Ether and Patrick pro-town based on my metagame of them over the past several games I have played/watched involving them. Can't say much else about that. They both seem like townies to me.
Ether has correctly assessed that this headstrong "you or me" attitude is a pro-town tell of mine, but I suppose it won't be well-publicized until this game is also over. Nevertheless, it *was* accurate in LO2. Now granted, I was wrong about that, and yes, I *am* taking my past experiences with MBL into account. We've butted heads a few times (LO2, KM2) as two townspeople going at it. I'm still put off by his wild speculation that I'm scum with X, Y, Z, or maybe A while his vote sits very quietly on CES.
Why exactly did you move it to CES and not Ether or me?
Why have you not answered my earlier questions?
What are your answers to my earlier questions?
Speak, sir! The Glork commands it!-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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Reposting for MBL's convenience:
....and adding a new #3:Glork wrote:1) What posts did people make that you think "no scum could make"?
2) Why do you think that Zindaras is a scumbag and that he should be lynched?
3) Since you say you were looking for how and why people defend Zindaras.... Whatdoyou think of my defense of Zindaras right before his modkilling?-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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Also Thesp, you posted in other games recently. Are you around? Have you read recent developments? What are your thoughts?-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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Patrick's right... MBL's list is inaccurate. It should look more like this:
MBL/Nightfall
MgM
CES
Thesp
Zindaras
Ether
Patrick
Nevertheless, MBL, again I ask you: If you're mounting all of this evidence against me, how come you're not coupling it with a vote for me?-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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Dear Everybody Else,
Please also ask MBL why he refuses to vote for me even though he believes I am so incredibly scummy. Maybe if he gets enough people demanding an answer, he'll finally give one.
XOXO,
Glork-
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Glork Burdened by Proficiency
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I don't see how you're speaking in certainties, MBL. Ineverexpressed "certainty" that Zindaras was pro-town. Let's look at what I said about Zindaras:Glork, [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=595182#595182]Post 1384[/url], wrote:I'd still rather be lynching MBL and Nightfall. I refuse to switch to Zindaras at this point. I'm alsostillwaiting for MBL to restate his case against Zindaras.Glork, [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=595331#595331]Post 1387[/url], wrote:Come to think of it, your post doesn't even makesense at this point, considering I had just said that I would REFUSE to move to Zindaras. I don'tANYHAVEa case against Zindaras. In fact, I'm practicallyDEFENDINGhim, because I feel tha this absence is being taken advantage of by somebody (namely you, MBL) who wants to stall the day and result in a Zindaras-lynch or a No-Lynch+ZindieModkill.
I also want you to tell me, MBL, who you'll be looking at if Zindaras is today's only death and he turns out to bepro-town. What happens if you're wrong?
So... just to repeat myself and make things completely, 100% clear, I want you to answer three things to me immediately:
1) What posts did people make that you think "no scum could make"?
2) Why do you think that Zindaras is a scumbag and that he should be lynched?
3) Where would your suspicions lie if Zindaras were lynched today as a pro-town player?
I'm sick of this "you're not looking, so I'm not going to tell you" attitude. After the shit you pulled with CDB -- claiming you saw something "naughty" in his posting and telling people to go look for it, and then backtracking to say that you were bluffing all along -- I'm not going to accept any of this "go look for it yourself" attitude. I want you to answer me clearly, directly, and concisely.
Let's look at exactly what I said:Glork, [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=595340#595340]Post 1388[/url], wrote:You know what, <<EXPLETIVE DELETED>> it, I'm just going to keep on going with this. I also knowfor a factthat Zindaras' activity across the board has practically disappeared in the past month. I've known him since we were on MafiaScum, and I know that he's got Real-Life issues that are preventing him from participating. The fact that he kept trying to come back and run analyses is something that I now see as a distinctpro-townsign, rather than a scumtell. It says that he was trying to contribute even when he knew he couldn't keep up. This "way Zindaras keeps floating in and out" bullshit that MBL was spewing when he said Zindie was 40% likely to be scum (yes, I just went back and glanced at MBL's earlier posts) comes from nothing. It comes from the fact that MBL is taking advantage of the fact that Zindaraswantedto be here, butisn't.
Perhaps by now he's just given up. I don't know. I'd like him to come in and, if nothing else, answer that for us. But I no longer for a second believe that he is scum, and I will not stand for us to sit back doing nothing while he gets lynched or modkilled. Zindaras' absence isNOTHINGlike Nightson's absence in the late portions of Space Monkey Mafia. He isn't scum. I don't know how many more times I can say that.- I refuse to move to Zindaras. I want MBL to explain his case against Zindaras.
- I don't have a case against Zindaras -- in fact, I've been defending him.
- I FEELthat his absence is being taken advantage of. Note the lack of certainty -- this is myOPINION, not a statement of fact.
- I want to know what MBL would do IFZindaras were killed as a pro-town player. Note I'm speaking theoretically here; there is no statement of fact.
- I know that Zindaras' activity is diminished. This is because of his V/LA posts and because of the fact that I had to replace him in my minigame, Mostly Mute: Haiku.
- I state that his attempts to provide some kind of participation earlier were something that I. Again, mySAWas a pro-town tellOPINION. There is no statement of fact.
- I again state that MBL is taking advantage of Zindaras' position. I do call this a fact, but it's evident that this "fact" comes from my conclusions on Zindaras' behavior and MBL's posting, especially with regards to Zindaras. I should note here that, if MBL wants to accuse me of using "facts," then the only "fact" I expressed is the "fact" that MBL was actively taking advantage of Zindaras. So yeah, MBL, if you're going to accuse me of having absolute/certain information, then you're basically stating that we would have to be scumbuddies if I "knew for a fact" that your intentions were malicious.
- I state the observation that Zindaras' absence does not hold parallels to Nightson's absence from Space Monkeys. That's probably the biggest reason that led to my conclusion that Zindaras was pro-town. I then re-state my conclusion that Zindaras is not scum.
concludedthat Zindaras was not scum based on myobservationsof this game. And if that's taboo, I'd really, *REALLY* like to know how you think Mafia should be played.
I'll get a response regarding Patrick later. He's been low on my list pretty much all game, though at this time, I can't properly articulate why that is so. When I get some spare time, I'll look at his posts again and try to explain why I think he is pro-town.-
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I disagree completely. There were obviously mixed emotions over Zindaras' alignment for the town as a whole, and I truly believe that at least somebody would have stepped up to agree with me. If nobody thought similarly to me, MBL, Zindaras would have been lynched a long time ago. The mod did no favors in choosing to modkill Zindaras when he did (though now that he's posted his upcoming absence, we at least know why he chose to do it at that time).
Why do you find it so difficult to believe that I came to a correct conclusion by completely legitimate means? Is it just because you didn't see it that way and you're being obstinate?-
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....so changing one's opinion over the course of a few weeks is unreasonable? Is that your argument against me? Nevermind that I made a significant change on CDB/Thesp/Fritz over the course ofdayswhen I did and posted my re-read of the first 20-something pages of the game.
Gas. Your case against me is all gas.-
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Okay, quick thing on Nightfall's PBPA posts.
You're saying that you couldn't feasably see scum making detailed PBPAs, but you could see me as scum making Glork125, Glork126, and Glork131 (my detailed PBPA of most of the entire game up to that point)?-
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Unvote
I'm going to try to re-read most/all of game at some point (not this weekend though... busy both Saturday and Sunday). MBL/Nightfall are still my top two suspects right now, but I may end up eating some of my own words before too long.-
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FoS: Thesp
I expectsomelevel of analysis on everything that has happened recently.-
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Stating that you think somebody was defending a pro-town player as if the "knew" they were pro-town is ridiculous. In Lights Out 2, back on D1, I made a list of players who I thought were pro-town. As far as I can remember, everybody on that list who died did so as a pro-town player. If you think that she did it in a way such that she "knew" he was pro-town,show that. Explainwhyher posts indicated that sheknewhe was pro-town, rather than just defending somebody who shethoughtwas pro-town. Saying "I think she knew information that only scum could know" just does not cut it. Point out the specific posts, lines, and phrases that led you to your conclusion.-
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*BUMP*
I would like to remind everybody that we have less than five days to arrive at a lynch. Considering Thesp, MGM, and Ether have contributed little to nothing in the past five days, this is a very serious issue.
I'm going to go ahead and PM Stoofer asking for an extension, and I encourage at least 3 others to do the same. But the main reason I want an extension is because I want some more very sharp, modprods -- preferrably with a branding iron. Make sure it says "GLORK'D!" please, Stoofer.-
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So because she took the opposite stance as Thesp and happened to be right, she had inside information?
I haveadamantlydemanded people whom I felt were pro-town, even withoutknowingit in past games. I still don't understand how this specific case is different in your eyes.
Out of curiosity, Nightfall: What do you think of Ether's failure to hammer Thesp at the end of Day Two? I do believe that you've posted your thoughts, but my memory fails me...
I'd like to see one more post from somebody else saying they've requested extension, just as insurance.-
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Vote: Nightfall
MOD: Did you send the prods that I had requested?-
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Yay, activity.
MOD:Will our Nightfall votes transfer over to Battle Mage? (If not,Vote: Battle Mage...)-
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You'll find the reasons for the votes during your re-read, BM. Just note every place where people attack Nightfall -- note especially those attacks made by Ether and the pressure put on you D4 (which is today).-
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Patrick wrote:
Yes.Mgm wrote:You really think attacks by Ether should get any credit?-
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Hi, please get off of your high horse and lynch Nightfall's replacement.Thesp wrote:Still here, still flabergasted by the lack of CES lynchitude.
Or maybe you reallyarehis Godfather.-
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So the whole thing about Nightfall deflecting "ChannelDelibird[SCUM] is lurkerscum" suspicions to Fritz[TOWN] (who was also lurking) is completely invalid?Mgm wrote:The cases against CES and the former Nightfall aren't any better.
And yes, you seem to be admitting that you don't actually have a case against anyone else, as Patrick just said.-
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Nightfall, Post 595 wrote:On the topic of Fritz I must ask, why of all the talk about how I am “lurking” or “not bothering to post” and of how CDB is “attempting to make it look like he is contributing” why isn’t more attention being given to the fact that Fritz too has contributed very little?-
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EBWODP: I daresay that'sleaguesmore substantial than anything you have presented, MGM.-
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Battle Mage's analysis was rather uninspiring. Why isn't he lynched yet?-
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Your claim that Nightfall "would obviously...distance himself from CDB" at Post 595 makes no sense to me. CDB was not in any particular amount of danger at that time, so distancing/busing hardly seems necessary. Could you explainBattle Mage wrote:could you addres your particular concern with post 595. as far as i can see, it reflects upon Nightfall as protownish, as Nightfall-scum would obviously be making an effort to distance himself from CDB, whereas in reality, he actually agreed with CDB openly. thats either incredibly stupid scum, or rather naive townie.
I cant see how that makes anything near a case however.
BMWHYdistancing would "obviously" be the tactic of choice?
The answer you have given above is nothing but WIFOM. "Nightfall as scum would do this, but he didn't do this, so he must not be scum."
Preview Edit: Actually, now that I look at it, Post 595 as a whole is *VERY* weird. He states multiple times that he agrees with CDB, but in his summary analysis, he gives a very, very neutral assessment of CDB's play. It's like Nightfall wanted to make CDB look good, but was afraid to definitively attach himself to CDB. And later, he brings up CDB again when he's talking about Fritz -- which indicates that he definitely has CDB on the mind.
Yeah, I'm like 95% sure that Nightfall/BM is scum now.
Now, to answer your question, MBL: Battle Mage's analysis just seems horribly disjointed. It's like he listed all of he actions in the game and then threw darts to see which ones he'd put down in his analysis. Some are just "X voted for Y." Others are "I see a possible distancing tactic." There's virtually no way to go back and check the analysis for accuracy or consistency without sitting down, reading the entire game, and trying to match up his statements with what happened where in the game. He also uses Burden of Proficiency as part of his evidence that I am scum (and, as far as I can tell, his point that I am "always the first to promote [my] brilliant scumcatching ability" is not only erroneous, but not relevant to this game in particular). He seems very eager to "remind" us that he "is pro-town," as indicated in his Burden of Proficiency argument, his comment on CTD's unvote, . In his comments towards me, he criticizes me for being confident that CDB was scum and not having a power-role, and questions why I didn't die. That discussion, I feel, was thoroughly exhausted, but he never acknowledges the fact that I made an explanation or that MBL and I had lengthy discussions on that whole situation.
BM's analysis contains a glaring logical fallacy, seems edited/catered to his end results, and he doesn't manage to address any of the points raised against Nightfall. When he replaced into the game and asked what points had been made against Nightfall, I told him to go look for and note those points. He claims that he did, but as far as I can tell, he only puts "X votes Nightfall" or "Y claims Nightfall is scum." He offers no insight as to his predecessors actions and no explanation for Nightfall's behavior until this most recent post, which reeks of nothing but WIFOM.
I find it very scary that BM states that "MGM is proven town" by Adele's investigation when we alll know that there is a Godfather in the game. Given MGM's reluctance to join a Nightfall (and now a BM) wagon, and BM's assertion that MGM is cleared as town, I would seriously consider going after MGM if BM were lynched as the other Mafia Goon today. Of course, I still see MBL as a possible third scumbag among this group, too, regardless of which mafia role BM would be lynched with.
If BM were lynched as town today, I think I'd be going after CES the hardest tomorrow. I don't really know who I'd peg as the second scum at that point... but I really don't think it's going to be an issue.-
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EBWODP:Glork wrote:He seems very eager to "remind" us that he "is pro-town," as indicated in his Burden of Proficiency argument, his comment on CTD's unvote,and his comments before the analysis that it will "hopefully win the game for the town" (which I know isn't part of this analysis, but still fits the bill with the "Look, I am pro-town!" attitude that I find so scummy).-
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EBWOTP: To elaborate a bit on BM's terrible "analysis" of Nightfall's play... his comments on Nightfall's actions in his initial lengthy analysis are restricted to "doesn't make a lot of sense" (Re: Nightfall's "I thought Glork and Fritz are masons") and a "stupid comment" in response to Ether.-
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EBWOQP: By the way, the significance of BM's repeated "I am pro-town" comments are in the fact that he did the same thing as scum in another (currently-running) game before he was lynched as scum. I can't find the other game in which he was scum, but his self-declarations of being town and helping the town are consistent with what I saw in this other game in which BM was scum.
MGM:Could you please explain exactly why you thought Battle Mage made "fine post by post analyses"? Obviously, I have come to a completely different conclusion. What upsides do you see to his lengthy analysis?-
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Arg. MBL, I would appreciate it if you could hold any further thoughts on BM until MGM has responded to my question. I don't want you to give him his answer (whether intentionally or accidentally).
I do see where you are coming from about those two points, MBL, but I do have a response to each of them. I simply disagree with BM's assessment of the first one, BM actually commits two scumtells here. He states that "the only way" I could be so confident is if I were scum, which is a *VERY* black-and-white proposition. He also states that if I weren't scum, and I picked out CDB accurately, I would have been killed. Not only is this another WIFOM scenario, but it also fails to address the (very likely, IMHO) possibility thatthe scums, whether I am in them or not, found Fritz out as the Cop.
Then again, you're not one to think in Technicolor yourself, MBL. I made itVERY CLEARnot only in my lengthy analysis posts, but also in subsequent posts, that I was keeping my vote on Ether as pressure into voting, and that I would move it (to CDB) once she had posted. I even stated in Post 625 that I wanted to pressure Ether and lynch CDB. I had no intention of lynching Ether, and it was entirely a posturing maneuver. I made this very apparent, so I don't see why BM finds my Ethervote "amazing." Nevertheless, if I were to count one point in BM's favor, it would be the observation that you just brought up.
I honsestly get the feeling that MBL is intentionally playing both sides of the BM-coin so that he can decide whether he needs to bus BM or whether he can slide suspicion away from him at some point.
Still, his question at the end of his most recent post feels like a loaded question, which would point to MBLscum if BM were *town* definitely, and is at best difficult to judge if BM is scum.
MBL, I have a few questions for you, but I would like to wait until MGM has answered my questions to him, first.
In other news, I am still very frustrated with the lack of posts/contribution from Thesp and Cogito Ergo Sum.
--CES, I don't care if you're not that good at reading so-and-so. I want you to at least make an effort.
--Thesp, I just don't know what to do with you. I amseverelydisappointed in your play since the CDB lynch, and it's actually starting to make me wonder if you're not pro-town afterall. I think that, regardless of what happens today, you *will* come up as a potential lynch candidate before this game is over. You're not doing yourself any favors by sitting on your ass doing nothing.-
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You're jumping to conclusions. I'm not saying that I believe with any certainty that it is a loaded question. It just seems like one to me. And no, I'm not seeing what you're getting at. Surprise surprise. You're being cryptic again, and I have no idea what you're talking about again. And I have no idea if you're just spouting more crap like the whole "CDB did something naughty. You guys find it because you're lazier than I am" bit again.
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