In post 9, PeregrineV wrote:Vote: ThaD
You haven't posted in the neighborhood QT yet. What's up with that?
NY 172: Another Large Normal (GAME OVER)
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Zdenek Jack of All Trades
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Cool. You are scum.In post 24, ThAdmiral wrote:
Lolz, I'll get on thatIn post 9, PeregrineV wrote:Vote: ThaD
You haven't posted in the neighborhood QT yet. What's up with that?
In other news I like being out of rvs within 3 live posts. While its sort of forced (what super early day 1 case stuff isn't) I still like rogers better for it.
Lemme guess: "reaction testing"?In post 21, bjc wrote:I'm scum.
vote: bjc
There you go, now you can call me scum for "taking the bait".I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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And with Doc Holliday, yeah?In post 25, Doc Holliday wrote:
There is no legitimate purpose to this as Town. bjc is either scum or not worth listening to. Obtuse gambits are anti-Town.In post 21, bjc wrote:I'm scum.
Sticking with talah for now, but this deserves a vote later.I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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And 4nx, I presume?In post 34, 4nxi3ty wrote:
overstating a tad hereIn post 11, Mister Rogers wrote:That's even more scumtastic.
Obfuscation is now added to the lack of sincerity.
post 20 logic's got an overexplainy vibe
hyperagressive scum? shrug, too early to tell.
vote: Mister RogersI have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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Who are you?In post 52, Mister Rogers wrote:Welcome ZD.I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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#4In post 44, Damon_Gant wrote:
What a peculiar post. No meaning, no purpose, no humour. Everything else in this game thus far is smoke clouding my vision.In post 21, bjc wrote:I'm scum.Vote: bjc
(Note: Kinda busy today and tomorrow. Home with my family for my birthday. Though I still should have enough access to post and keep up, I won't be able to make more substantive posts until Monday.)I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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Taleh, is this DV dotting i's and crossing t's?In post 40, DeasVail wrote:Mister Rogers, Talah and Doc all getting ~into it~ right out of the gate is lovely. Whether they are super-cool town or over-enthusiastic scum remains to be seen, however.
Doc Holliday, I have to say that your 'out of RVS' post was rather disappointing, and unfortunately I am inclined to believe that it was in reaction to my vote. Considering that there wasn't any in-game evidence to be had, I think it would have been more beneficial to wait if talah actually continued doing this later, before making an early accusation. It would have been appropriate as merely a pressure vote, but the post where you leave your vote on talah despite your dislike for the guy that claimed scum indicates that it's actually something serious. Talah may still be scum, I don't know, but I don't see how he/she/puppy would would be more likely to do that as scum than as town.
I can also confirm that talah was not burned by me whatsoever. Rogers, what was it that gave you that impression? Also, why are you so interested in the game? What do you hope to gain from having the link to it?
ThAdmiral, is there any point to your vote on bjc other than to look town?
I think you are completely right about this.In post 27, talah wrote:I think that he (Deas) tends to get over-explanatory as scum, dotting i's and crossing t's where town probably wouldn't.
I really dislike that first sentence and that question about why someone would ask for a link to a game odd.I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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You attack Mr. Rogers for reasons that suggest that you think that he's hyper-aggressive scum, or whatever phrase you used, but cheapen it by saying that it's too early to tell if that's what he is.
I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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That is where you are wrong.In post 70, Damon_Gant wrote:The only point I see zdenek making about me is "#4", which you'll forgive me if I don't find it to be spectacular analysis.I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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No problem DV!In post 76, DeasVail wrote:Zdenek! I feel that our reads are similar (I can't say I'm feeling Damon-scum yet though), but you're scumreading me and that's not very good, so I'll kindly ask you to stop.
No way mastin. (But I don't mind wagonning people and lynching someone and not drawing day one out to 100 pages for instance.)In post 90, mastin2 wrote:I have a proposal: larges these days have exploded in length. I am proposing we limit posts per person to be five a day, to see if we can get the shortest recent large game.
I don't think I'm white-knighting him. I mean I don't have a take on him yet. I do think that the people voting him over claiming scum are somewhat scummy - you for trying to dodge the accusation of taking the bait by making light of it in your post, and Gant for voting him while only saying that he found his post peculiar, plus making out of game excuses.In post 91, ThAdmiral wrote:Can you explain why you're white-knighting bjc so much?
I don't like that you are accusing me of white-knighting someone you're voting.I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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This looks good.In post 107, mastin2 wrote:Yeah, you're scum. This line of thought simply doesn't come from a town player. Town player? "Why do you think Rogers is town? Why do you think I'm scum?" Scum player? "Why do you think our interactions are town vs. scum?" (Making an assumption that interactions have anything to do with the read. They might contribute to the overall picture, but are largely irrelevant.) "...Also, he unvoted me; surely that makes him either scum or wrong." (That's essentially what talah's saying, here.)I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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We could lynch this, for instance.In post 115, BipolarChemist wrote:
This is just...no. No. Stop it.In post 90, mastin2 wrote:Yo.
I have a proposal: larges these days have exploded in length. I am proposing we limit posts per person to be five a day, to see if we can get the shortest recent large game.
Mr. Rogers is a cutie pie thus far! (also seemingly town)
VOTE: mastin
Your posts annoy me. Please make them not, thx.I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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Cause she's scum.In post 116, RachMarie wrote:how the heck do you have me leaning town when I have barely posted Talah?
Prolly with BioChemist.In post 117, BipolarChemist wrote:
Prolly cuz posts like this. I'm townreading you pretty hard right now, Rachy.In post 116, RachMarie wrote:how the heck do you have me leaning town when I have barely posted Talah?
And him.In post 118, Damon_Gant wrote:Mastin's play continues to be very bleh. Giving garbage reads, and now trying to spoonfeed us what his meta is. That's not going to work - when I have time tonight I'll be looking at Mastin's meta for myself. It does need doing, because of the unorthodox playstyle - but I'm not going to be told by the player himself what his meta is, and essentially that his meta this game corresponds with his meta for town.
Anx isn't as bad as I thought.I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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*bets on Doc being buddies with Taleh*In post 25, Doc Holliday wrote:
There is no legitimate purpose to this as Town. bjc is either scum or not worth listening to. Obtuse gambits are anti-Town.In post 21, bjc wrote:I'm scum.
Sticking with talah for now, but this deserves a vote later.
It drives me nuts when people assume that others have the same knowledge as they do.In post 95, RachMarie wrote:I have played with BB a lot and he replaces out due to RL issues not because of alignment.
Gant complaining about Mastin's reads is rather hilarious considering he apparently doesn't have many of his own.In post 104, Damon_Gant wrote:People's reaction to my first post has been stupid. Mastin's in particular seems like he just has a problem with just the way that I weighed my words. It's how I post - particularly if I'm making a post with quite a simple and concise point. Indeed, just in general, I don't find Mastin's reads to be very good. The certainty in them is obviously part of his meta, but I do disagree with pretty much all of it. I'm not sure if posting such disagreeable reads is part of his meta! I don't have any particularly strong feelings on his proposal for a limit of posting - but as others do, I guess that's not happening.I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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Yes, but that doesn't need to be the reason that they think you are scum.In post 134, talah wrote:- Zdenek, from your perspective don't you think it's a reasonable assumption that if a person votes you and says on the very next line that the person attacking you is town, that they're assuming an argument is town vs scum?
All of this fits with the Mastin I know and I don't think it's alignment related. However, I think you are misrepresenting what actually happened. Mastin read your content, thought it was scummy, voted you and also didn't like your reaction to the vote.Couple that with the fact that for a supposed 'reaction vote' on me - I was the player who'd already come under the most scrutiny up to that point. So mastin's happy to townread, say, aptil on the basis of one very shonky post, but needs to reaction-test me when I'm the player who already has the most in-thread content to read from?I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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I feel like those aren't the words you meant to use.In post 138, Damon_Gant wrote:Bad logic is anti-town, therefore scum. Good logic is anti-town, therefore increased probability of being scum.
Also,In post 132, Zdenek wrote:So why did you disagree with Mastin's reads?I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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Ha ha. You are scum with Gant. That is the most boring interaction imaginable.In post 142, BipolarChemist wrote:I agree with Smudger and Nero, would like to see posts from them, but poking a projectmatt is kinda dumb. He replaced in just about an hour before your post.I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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I've seen no reason to have given out any town reads yet.In post 143, ThAdmiral wrote:Zdenek - what's it up to now 6 scum reads and no town reads? Bullshit alarm is going off. scumI have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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Yes - trying to undermine mastin, your argument for why Taleh could be town reading Rach.In post 147, BipolarChemist wrote:
Aw dang man, ya caught me. Great comment by the way, totally not boring and meaningless. Any specific reason you think I'm scum?In post 144, Zdenek wrote:
Ha ha. You are scum with Gant. That is the most boring interaction imaginable.In post 142, BipolarChemist wrote:I agree with Smudger and Nero, would like to see posts from them, but poking a projectmatt is kinda dumb. He replaced in just about an hour before your post.I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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The post you are talking about came AFTER Taleh a gave a town read on Rach and could not have been the reason why Taleh was town reading Rach. So the fact that you are defending Taleh's town read on Rach by citing that post makes absolutely no sense.In post 151, BipolarChemist wrote:Rach made posts questioning why someone else thought she was town. I think that's pretty town, as I don't see scum questioning that. I also see it as some decent scumhunting.I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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It's pretty clear to me.In post 117, BipolarChemist wrote:
Prolly cuz posts like this. I'm townreading you pretty hard right now, Rachy.In post 116, RachMarie wrote:how the heck do you have me leaning town when I have barely posted Talah?I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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The time for you to have come clean about being sarcastic was in 151. I also was very specific about you defending Taleh's town read on Rach. I did not say that you were generally defending Taleh.
Frankly, I don't believe that you were being sarcastic - You quoted a post of hers that you said was town and you've since argued that it was town. Are you trying to argue that you actually don't think that Taleh's town read on Rach is justified, and that is the thing that you were being sarcastic about?I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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Well, what I think is that I gave some reasons for why I think that your scum, you reacted by becoming angry and insulting, and now you're trying to weasel your way out of the situation by saying that you were being sarcastic. I also think that if you were town you would have explained that you were being sarcastic off the bat. Right now, I'm trying to work out just how full of shit you are.In post 164, BipolarChemist wrote:
You're assuming I garnered an opinion on Talah's read, rather than making a general statement. I didn't have more of an opinion on Talah's read because I didn't care enough about it to make more than a sarcastic comment.In post 162, Zdenek wrote:The time for you to have come clean about being sarcastic was in 151. I also was very specific about you defending Taleh's town read on Rach. I did not say that you were generally defending Taleh.
Frankly, I don't believe that you were being sarcastic - You quoted a post of hers that you said was town and you've since argued that it was town. Are you trying to argue that you actually don't think that Talah's town read on Rach is justified, and that is the thing that you were being sarcastic about?
I'm not to sure of the point you're trying to make with this either. Would there be a problem if I did think Talah is correct in his townread?I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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In post 172, Mister Rogers wrote:@ZD: Can you clarify which posts from the rapid cluster you are referring to?
Thinks I'm scum.In post 151, BipolarChemist wrote:You two in love in your little scummy corner?In post 166, BipolarChemist wrote:But you're also wrong?
Okay make sense if he thinks I'm town.In post 168, BipolarChemist wrote:I got that feeling.I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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Well it doesn't matter cause you're dead and I won't have to worry about it any more.In post 174, BipolarChemist wrote:Man, you don't really get that I'm being sarcastic do you?I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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It was fake.In post 185, BipolarChemist wrote:
...was that a fake shot? Or are you just trying to get my hopes up?In post 184, Zdenek wrote:You're not dead.
Anyway, what I don't like about 4nx's post is that he both Mastin and Gant are scum reading Doc, 4nx is interested in Gant's scum read, calls Mastin's read garbage. The only way this makes any sense is if Anx is town reading Doc, but as far as I can tell he doesn't have a read on him.I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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I think mastin's view of the townie thought process is about right. I think that talah asking about interactions, which mastin never mentioned, is an attempt to get mastin to argue for something that the never claimed, force him into arguing a particular point or have him admit that he doesn't think that the interactions are scummy. The second comment seems to me to be simply manipulative. To me it boils down to Talah saying: if you think I'm scum, then you must think that I've fooled Mr. Rogers, Mr. Rogers is town, but wrong, which is really not a remarkable opinion to hold in a mafia game at all.In post 199, Mister Rogers wrote:
Really? Am I missing something because (no offense to Mastin) but it read to me like a barely substantial semantics argument which would be better suited for RVS.In post 124, Zdenek wrote:
This looks good.In post 107, mastin2 wrote:Yeah, you're scum. This line of thought simply doesn't come from a town player. Town player? "Why do you think Rogers is town? Why do you think I'm scum?" Scum player? "Why do you think our interactions are town vs. scum?" (Making an assumption that interactions have anything to do with the read. They might contribute to the overall picture, but are largely irrelevant.) "...Also, he unvoted me; surely that makes him either scum or wrong." (That's essentially what talah's saying, here.)I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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At this stage of the game that's just silly.In post 201, ThAdmiral wrote:I would expect a normal town player who is actually trying to determine people's alignments to have come up with approximately the same amount of scum reads as town reads.I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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Yet Doc is a scum read of yours?In post 202, Damon_Gant wrote:Provocative in the right ways. His other posts are neutral, but I definitely feel this one leans town.
Anx goes back down the list.In post 205, Mister Rogers wrote:both myself AND DG but
Those have little bearing on any read that I have on bjc. I've explained some of them already.In post 217, Yates wrote:@Zdenek - can you explain how you arrived at what must be an obv Town read on bjc that's so strong it lead you to the conclusions posted in posts 50, 51, 53, and 56?
I think Gant is scum and I think that there are positive things that BipolarChemist could have brought up, but he focused on something incredibly boring. It was a really weak interaction between someone and a scum read of mine and I wanted to provoke BipolarChemist.In post 217, Yates wrote:Also, on a kind of related but unrelated point, can you explain post 144 to me? I mean, I agree with Chemist that Gant calling out a dude [projectmatt] for not posting that has only been in the game for an hour is pretty sketch. Do you disagree? What am I missing, here?
What does the time frame have to do with it?In post 217, Yates wrote:This all happened in the span of like 15 minutes. This actually looks organic to some of you???I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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Because they aren't about him.In post 234, PeregrineV wrote:
How can those reads have any validity without a read on bjc?In post 233, Zdenek wrote:I don't have a read on bjc at the moment. What I have are reads on people's reactions to his scum claim.
The issue I had with ThAd's post was that he shielded himself from complaints that he was taking the bait by making a joke about it.
The issue I had with Doc's post was the comment about this deserves a vote later. It's him opening up the door to get off the Talah wagon.
The issue I had with Damon Gant's post was that he was making out of game excuses. I also didn't like that he called the post peculiar (as opposed to scummy).I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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Why in God's name should anyone have the same number as town reads as scum reads?In post 235, ThAdmiral wrote:Why?I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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It's like you just demonstrated how I don't need to have a read on bjc, since you gave possibilities for each of those things regardless of what alignment bjc is.In post 238, PeregrineV wrote:
I don't feel you can adequately assign alignments to reactions-to-bjc without assigning a bjc alignment (without MSU).In post 236, Zdenek wrote:
Because they aren't about him.In post 234, PeregrineV wrote:
How can those reads have any validity without a read on bjc?In post 233, Zdenek wrote:I don't have a read on bjc at the moment. What I have are reads on people's reactions to his scum claim.
The issue I had with ThAd's post was that he shielded himself from complaints that he was taking the bait by making a joke about it.(Scum bait or town bait?)
The issue I had with Doc's post was the comment about this deserves a vote later. It's him opening up the door to get off the Talah wagon.(To vote scum bjc to bus or vote town bjc to mislynch?)
The issue I had with Damon Gant's post was that he was making out of game excuses. I also didn't like that he called the post peculiar (as opposed to scummy).(so is he distancing from scum-bjc or fencesitting on town-bjc?)I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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Good. Then you know what I am thinking and should be town reading me.In post 267, talah wrote:I saw Zdenek's vote coming from halfway around the map.
I think that if he's scum, then he's scum who claimed VT on one day one of a large game and will get busted any way.In post 286, DeasVail wrote:Zdenek, I feel really conflicted about Bipolar's reaction to your fakevig. I completely agreed with your scumread, but considering that the dayvig gambit has become so common that it's often used as a joke, I don't know if I trust his reaction. What are your thoughts?
I also think that his responses to what I did look legit.
Nope. I contend that a bunch of people reacted poorly to a day one scum claim.In post 289, PeregrineV wrote:
Because how scum interacts with scum is different than how scum interacts with town. You are trying to contend that all are scum merely because they interacted?In post 241, Zdenek wrote:How do you get from giving me examples of things scum could be doing based on bjc being either town or scum to asking me about whether ThAd, doc or damon is scum or not scum?I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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I like to think they are just being a bit obnoxious and pressuring me a little because it's all pretty obvious stuff.In post 323, Yates wrote:Why do you think there are at least three people asking you how you jumped to these conclusions?I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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So you think it should have happened faster?In post 323, Yates wrote:Everything? The timing makes it look orchestrated.I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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Zdenek Jack of All Trades
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What certainty?In post 340, AngryPidgeon wrote:ESPECIALLY the certainty that came with it.
It was page two and I was trying to provoke reactions. I find it hard to imagine that you could think I was doing anything differently.In post 340, AngryPidgeon wrote:Actually it makes perfect sense. You are trying to assign scum motivation to people's reaction to the bjc post whilst leaving the -exact- motivation up for interpretation. Is there a distinct -lack- of town motivation in the responses? I don't see any. Its realllly not going to fly to say "Ya these reactions are scum-motivated for whatever reason you want them to be". Justify yourself or get dunked.I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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Zdenek Jack of All Trades
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Actually, that last sentence by AP is so fucking stupid I can't imagine that it's coming from town-AP. It's pretty fucking standard reasoning in mafia to express the point of view that someone is scummy for something for different reasons depending on the unknown alignment of another.I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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Zdenek Jack of All Trades
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Zdenek Jack of All Trades
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He's pretty new, so him taking it face-value isn't really that surprising. Personally, I still think that he could be scum, I really hate the sarcasm excuse that he kept using, but having him locked into a claim is okay for me for now.In post 345, AngryPidgeon wrote:The part where he auto-claims without bothering to figure out at all if you are full of shit. Townies are generally paranoid about that.
I'm arguing with PV about them because he's bringing them up. They are doing little to inform my reads at the moment.In post 345, AngryPidgeon wrote:Ok, well this is page 10 and you apparently still believe those reads are good because you are arguing them with PV so cut this crap about it being page 2. I think PV's points make sense.I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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Zdenek Jack of All Trades
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Zdenek Jack of All Trades
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Zdenek Jack of All Trades
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I believe everything that I wrote, but I'm not going to try to drive anyone to the gallows because of those things.In post 348, AngryPidgeon wrote:Do you believe them or not? You clearly at least partially believe those points since you are bothering to argue them with PV.I have secret plans and clever tricks.- The Enormous Crocodile.-
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Zdenek Jack of All Trades
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Zdenek Jack of All Trades
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