NY 170: Georgetown II (Game Over)

[Sotty7]

/confirm.

Lets not spam the thread if none of these votes are counting. Plus the three of you are probably town anyway.

[Sotty7]

I disagree with this we are putting out a lot of information before the game begins and pretty much destroyed the rvs stage early on which I like so I don't see a reason for stopping the discussion.

Fair enough, I'm being mostly selfish as I have to go to work soon where I have no access to the internet and wasn't looking forward to sifting though 10+ pages. But I shall deal. So for the record, if this game spins out of control I work 40+ hours a week where I won't be able to post. My content will come mostly in the early mornings and late evenings.

In game related news - Maenara's vote on emogirl is pretty terrible and is probably scum.

[Sotty7]

Can this happen in a vanilla game? The signup post just says "no PRs", so I guess it is still possible, as well as maybe serial killer or something similar?

You're new but you know what multiball is?

Vote: Maenara

I like emogirl.

[Sotty7]

Speculation isn't important, but the stance people take on it and their motivations for doing so are.

About a mountainous setup? No it's just noise to make people look like they are doing stuff. We can worry about multiball for example if there are two kills night one. There won't be, but can. Till then this is all pointless.

This a scummy post as a no lynch is a bad idea and you never point out reasoning why I you think I am scummy. This is opportunistic,omgussy and a nonsensical this where people should vote.

But he didn't say we should no lynch as he voted in his post.

The main point was he was using that to sneak a opportunistic vote under with out explaining himself. What do you think of his voting so far?

If that was the point why lead with the scandalous "he said no lynch!" cry?

If your post contains setup spec in this, a mountainous game, I'm probably not going to read it.

Garmr is probably town, at least I got strong town vibes from him in the confirmation stage. He seems to be all over the place right now and is seemingly trying to dictate the game ("Me or Aegor!") it's making him a tasty treat. I would like him to explain himself a little more but scum being this brazen, well I just can't see it.

[Sotty7]

While I agree emo should have waited for Garmr to post himself (accused players defense is always best heard first before any defenders step in.) Calling chainsaw this early in the day/game is just terrible and shouldn't be done.

[Sotty7]

I don't care what he says, it is noise. I care why you are making associations of two unflipped players.

No, game generated content by him, which is what his defense would have been, is never noise. I have town reads but that never means I don't care what they have to say, I always care cause reads should be fluid and flexible. maestro is right in this case, you cut off his discussion before he had a chance to put it out there. He can still come in and defend himself but now it's tainted.

[Sotty7]

Aww man I was really hoping we could work together in this game ABR. emo is so town, what is this vote about?

@Sotty7: Really?

Yeah you're scum. I'm happy.

Whoever brought up multiball, and whoever followed that up with the big discussion about town win percentages in various size games, and whoever else participated in that circus side-show of a conversation, none of these things even remotely resemble scumhunting. It's all white noise that looks on the surface like helpful activity but is actually just a fine place for scum to hide. I'll have to go back and read it all later because my eyes glazed over the first time. I believe Sotty already called this out. Listen to her.

Emogirl wagon is like flypaper for easy, lazy votes.
Maenara, have you policy lynched (or tried to policy lynch) before as town? Can you link to a game where that has happened?
Albert, hi. Nice to see you. Speak up.
NS, hi. Am I interpreting your reference to "Maestro's townbloc" as a townread on Maestro correctly? If so, where are you getting that townread from?
More importantly the emogirl wagon is drawing votes away from garmr, which despite emo's insistence on townreading him (and saying that defending him is defending herself, which it isn't) is still the wagon we should actually be pursuing.

Yup yup. Needed to be double posted.

I would support a Maenara lynch

Way ahead of you.

The irony is, Maenara can be our default policy lynch. I don't see the reason for multiple people to point out her posts are bad.

Not policy, not at all. Seriously, why use that word here?

[Sotty7]

Maenara has taken the ultimate easy stance with emo, policy lynch! Get out of here with this crap. We're not lynching scum based on who is the most annoying.

emo is so earnest and posting so much I just can't get a scum vibe. Her tone in many posts has annoyed me but that doesn't make her scum at all. It's the way she is trying to come across as a experienced mafia player, when she clearly doesn't seem to be. Argh it's hard to explain exactly what I mean, but that is the closest I can come up with.

Maestro has gotten swept up in emo's little cloud and I think it has clouded him. But his interaction has given all these other people the shield to jump onto emo with no reasoning. It's crap.

Garmr is probably town as well really. There is a few things that ping me funny, him asking what his hyposcum motivation is for one. But he seems waaaaay too naive right now with how he is posting to be scum. Just another low hanging fruit for people to pick at.

I'm seeing a lot of town kicking up a dust cloud for scum to ooze into and hide behind. Lets stop that.

[Sotty7]

Most people paying attention noticed, but really this is mostly ABR being ABR.

[Sotty7]

Pray tell what are the criteria for lynching scum?

Having them be scum is the first step.

VOTE: ABR

Wrong. Try again?

Nah I got my vote on scum Maenara, you should sheep me. That or point out where I am wrong, I'm open to that too.

[Sotty7]

Maenara is a disguised policy lynch at best. Stating otherwise and trying to generate discussion on that point is nonsense and should be stopped.

Why would anyone policy lynch Maenara...

Exactly. We're not policy lynching

anyone

today.

So what do you think of sooty emo?

:-/

What do you think of me? You asked this question a bunch of times.

Prediction: Sotty and emogirl are scumpals. (Hey, Sotty -- blatant coaching is bad, mmmkay?)

lol

Yeah, thanks I'll remember that for future games!

I refuse to talk about my association read of Sotty and Bulbazak until I am no longer in danger of being hammered. I don't need Sotty hammering me on the basis that my reads are toxic for the town.

I have called you town this whole game. From the very start, why in the great blue hell would I hammer you?

Unvote, Vote: Chevre

Totally with you here

Unvote, Vote: Chevre

That unvote of emo felt a lot like a panicing scum unvote after being railed on how crappy his first vote was. I'm also happy to call the four who quick voted Chevre on that one page as town. My vote now places Chevre tied with emogirl and I am completely happy with that.

I really don't understand the Maenara town read (she is also lurking) I'm not really interested in meta but I might have to look if most think I am looking in the wrong place.

[Sotty7]

Basically, I'm just very skeptical about Day 1 anyway so that first lynch is going to be a crapshoot, and if it has to be me then fine. I'll take one for the town.

Step off the soap box and scum hunt. Please and thank you.

I'm cool with that until I've read

I like you already but he is probably town here. He's actually posting!

emogirl, you're perplexing me. Good town shouldn't focus on being read as town, they should be finding scum.

Yes they should. Who are you voting again?

I really want to ask where emo got her link between me and bulb but the idea of even

thinking

of partners is so silly at this point I just keep biting my tongue. I'll be honest in that I have almost completely tuned out bulb v Tebow debate and I really need to look back at that because I have an unexplained town read of Tebow and a slimey kinda read on bulb. I should probably try to figure out why.

[Sotty7]

First thought, does Maestro actually have wagon summoning powers? It's worked twice so far, on emogirl and chevre. Is he being townread or does every just agree with his reads? Is there some meta / group history that I wouldn't know about?

How has it worked twice? He was a big push behind the start of the emo but he was the 4th vote on a momentum wagon of Cherve. What do you think about him being on both wagons? As for your point on Brain Skies, I could see him as scum. His catch up posts aren't really bringing anything to the table and he might as well just jump in the deep in rather than spend forever on out of date catch posts to make it look like he is doing some work. He seems to be asking a lot of empty questions rather than scum hunting.

The problem with the Chevre vote is that it implies that jumping on emogirl without really adding anything new due to a self-proclaimed difficulty with getting going is scummy enough to vote for, whilst also, y'know, doing the same thing.

Not really. Chevre isn't scummy for jumping on emo without adding anything new. Chevre is scummy for jumping on emo while at the same time equivocating about not having a good read on emo but still insisting its a good vote (or some other BS idk I'm at work and not going back to read right now), then bailing on the vote pretty much the moment the heat got turned up on it.

AKA the flip for information BS that enables a quick backing away the next day if needed. The way he abandoned the vote makes it even worse. His hand was caught in the cookie jar pretty much.

I'd call ABR's presence in this game so far as lazy, for jumping on the largest wagons and not much of anything else. This intrinsic fact, that is, without applying his meta or whatever, should suffice for a scumread, and should be target for scrutiny.

I agree he has been lazy, but you could put that label on a lot of the players here. Sladnaar, Kabooooom, Taco, Goodfather to name just a couple off the top of my head. What do you think of NS switch between the two wagons for example?

Chevre is a good day 1 lynch. You can't just run up everybody to L-3 and then freak out when someone places that player in danger of a lynch, then choose to disintegrate that wagon and bandwagon the new player. This is mountainous, we're not going to get a game-changing claim. Instead of getting caught in a circular suspicion loop, I say we lynch Chevre.

This is a pretty excellent point about running people up in this game.

Both Tebow and yes can go in my town group. I liked their little back and forth here.

[Sotty7]

Offtopic, your pic and ohgodmylife's look too similar, I keep confusing you two.

I never really gave that any thought before. We have both had these avatars for a long time. If it is that bad I can probably change mine for the game. I know how confusing that can be.

Garmr ignored my questions to him, so clearly my vote is ineffective where it sits.

So the big question is, why leave it there?

Zdenek's vote on Goodfather is pretty great. His push on Garmr back in post 566 seems like a terrible reason to keep his vote there and doesn't actually explain why he thinks anything Garmr says is wishy washy. His attacks feel safe and very pot shotty the point on his yessir criticism is very much on point. This is a considerable upgrade from Maenara.

[Sotty7]

Sotty, why are you town reading ABR?

I'm not anymore actually. I really loved Yessir's push on him, he responded somewhat reasonably but I'm looking to see what's next from him. I don't buy the "big game slow start" excuse he tried to pull before either.

Mod, since it's kinda pointless now, can I replace my own alt?

Yes, that's fine with me.

I remember Tebow was an alt, but I couldn't remember who's. I was thinking CDB.

I will read Chreve's post spam after I have my supper.

[Sotty7]

So early game it seemed like you had a strongish scumread on maenara, now that zdenek replaced in does that affect your read on that slot?

Of course. The Maenara read was a strong gut kick but when a player slot starts actually posting (good) content that read is going to change. Not 100% out of the woods but zdenek is a big upgrade there so far.

Is there any reason you posted a scum/town list without being prompted to?

@Sotty Why don't you read any large game I'm in and see if you buy it or not.

Fair enough. When I get some spare time.

Nothing scummy about OGML, in fact, I happen to support all of his votes.

This.

I read Chreve's scum reads and they roughly line up with mine so it makes me more willing to see him as town. I really hate any kind of PBPA so I skipped his page by page run down but I'm feeling generally better with him. Most of what I read feels earnest enough.

I don't want any lynching for a while (on anyone) as I am conducting some very valuable investigations. I half oppose half don't care about the chevre wagon; it seems very meh to me.

How's this coming?

Vote: Slandaar

ABR, you should come back this way, I'm not sold on emeraldemon being anything more than a little bit out of his depth.

[Sotty7]

V/LA until Sat evening

[Sotty7]

Did you look at emeraldemon's completed game?

Was this directed at me and why would I look at his game?

How's this coming?

Stalled while Kabs is awol.

I don't know what this means. Turns out you are talking about Kaboooom? Seems like you have a great go to excuse to not post content. Having your investigations rely on a player who is barely here is pretty laughable.

Alright. I lied. I fell asleep. I'll put this game at the top of the priority list.

This is a good lynch too.

@sotty
I posted a list b/c I thought it would be good to show my reads. Is that bad?

Just wondering if there was a reason you did it after Chreve did and was called town by some in doing so.

yeah no

VOTE: Brain Skies

What this guy said.

Unvote, Vote: Brain Skies

[Sotty7]

I am feeling lucky that I am basically keeping some what up to date right now. I should have more time after the weekend to look a little deeper at some slots and hopefully get a better grip on the game.

[Sotty7]

Because I feel it. I don't like to meta, I barely have enough time as it is.

Aegor is strange. I thought he was lurking earlier but it's more like he is posting and no one seems to be paying him much attention. Not sure if that makes him scum.

[Sotty7]

Because I heard though the grapevine Brian was supposed to be a good player. This forever catch up thing is bullshit so are his empty pointless questions.

Zdenek you're also asking a lot of questions and not providing a lot of analysis. I don't like it much.

[Sotty7]

I apologize for missing the last two days, life caught me.

I have little later start for work today so I will catch up before I leave is in about two hours.

[Sotty7]

Well I'm sure not voting emeraldemon, that wagon is a poor distraction from Skies and yourself. But I appreciate you trying to dilute my vote or maybe link us together with that little "you should vote me" BS. Why not convince me why I shouldn't? You don't strike me as the type to just give up. Even more so if ABR is "confirmed scum" like you claim.

The interaction between Slandaar and Skies does have Skies coming out on top, Slandaar's transition over to voting him feel extremely forced and not wholly believable. It's like he realized half way though the back and forth that he was still voting for the Goodfather without actually pursuing a case on him. It just feels like he is positioning himself in a good light, rather than actually scum hunting. I don't know, I just don't buy it.

If Skies is going to start interacting like he did with Slandaar then he is producing a lot better than the empty content he had been putting out before that.

Unvote, Vote: Slandaar

I'm just not seeing any genuine attempt at scum hunting. It's a lot of reactionary stuff.

Holy crap - posting while I was typing. Pretty sure we have a lynch.

[Sotty7]

How is that even remotely playing to your win condition?

Is he the type to scum self hammer?

[Sotty7]

A summary of ABR's case on me:
Sland is lurking
ABR can read me if I post a lot
I am second highest poster

I am town

ABR is scum, lynch him tomorrow.

If you're town you're doing it wrong.

Like really super terribly wrong.

[Sotty7]

Unvote, vote Slandaar

regardless you still voted against town

Vote: ABR

Are you sure you want to play this game? You're setting an incredibly high standard that I'm sure not even you can live up to.

emo what do you think of Zekrom now?

Garmr, Skies was pretty awful most of the day but what did you think about his reasoning for voting Slandaar when he finally gave it? Thor can be a positive player for this game and I'd rather give him a little time to look town before I am willing to lynch him again.

Getting some bad juju about Zdenek again which probably has a lot to do with his voting record. I just looked back and he does have logic for the ABR which runs along the same lines Matias but Fonz's #985 is a pretty nice breakdown of that particular tell in this game. I don't know, I guess I feel the ABR vote is kinda a cop out at this point. An easy vote. I need to look back again when I get some time to put names to faces with the replacements.

[Sotty7]

emo what do you think of Zekrom now?

Don't know. I find players like Zekrom to be terribly hard to read. Maestro is always scum.

You were pretty convinced he was scum in this game, but then you kinda drifted away from that. Would you still lynch the slot?

A NS vote is extremely tempting but at this point I'm looking to see his reaction to all this. He is really the type of player I would vig night 0 if given the chance, but his voting has been weak so far this game so it could be worth the pursuit.

On that note, Sotty was a fan of my The Goodfather vote and voted Slaandar, so that criticism of hers seems fabricated.

You also have votes on Aegor, emeraldemon and ABR that are all pretty terrible. Why are you pushing on ABR today and not emeraldemon? What do you think of Fonz #985? I just see you jumping from place to place with relative easy and no real conviction with any of your votes. You ask questions but I don't feel any pressure from you. Combined this with my earlier scum read of your slot before you replaced in and I'm not liking it much at all

Vote: Zdenek

Sadly, it is well within ABR's meta to...well, flat out lie to make a case when he is town.

You don't think that NS's play is within his meta?

Defend with a deflection back. Have you played with ABR before? Your probe on Thor can be flipped and applied to you.

[Sotty7]

I still need to take a look at bulb and again I skimmed over Chreve but I will take a look at those couple of posts as well.

[Sotty7]

So, what's your read on Aegor, you haven't given one yet, and what is your current read on ABR?

I'm voting on ABR today for the reason that I gave recently and because I felt like pushing a wagon to see what would come of it.

Fonz's 985 is fine, but less relevant to what I'm thinking about than Thor's 1016.

I'm reading Aegor as newer town. I go back and forth on ABR, right now I have him slight town, his back and forth with Slandaar felt appropriate to me yesterday, something I would expect of town ABR.

Talk to me about emeraldemon then? It looked like after the Goodfather fell flat he was your strongest read as you jumped on every chance to wagon him that cropped up. You have now basically done the same with ABR, joining the wagon rather than convince people of your reads. Is he still one of your top scum reads? Is ABR more likely to flip scum than him?

Bulbazak and Zekrom currently gut level scums.

vote: Bulbazak

I kinda agree although

maybe not about Zekrom

(the smiley post irks me so he can go in here too). You have anything about bulb that is itching you in particular?

I was fighting for it until my read of Chevre changed. He's now firmly in my town pile. I agree with the Sotty read coming out of the Slandaar wagon analysis. Something felt off about her yesterday that I couldn't quite put my finger on, but looking back it does feel like she was mirroring my positions at every opportunity.

Vote: Sotty7

We happened to agree. I'm not going to apologize for that, I will shadow protown looking people if I can. I like to work in teams.

The vote on Sotty is pretty awesome.

Not even slightly.

[Sotty7]

I'm not sure of Sotty's reasoning for his vote on Slandaar, but it is not permanent I see.

I thought it was pretty obvious with the quote I included that I thought his post about "other investigations" was bullshit. I pushed him further when it turned out he was waiting for a poster that barely posted which was a great excuse to lurk.

I drifted off wagon because I feeling Skies was more likely to flip scum but when we came near the deadline I changed my mind again in my post lynch vote for Slandaar which actually detailed my thoughts a little clearer.

[Sotty7]

Do you still feel the same way about brian skies slot as I do.

Right now I am giving Thor a chance.

[Sotty7]

Sotty "likes" yessiree in 461; on terms of playstyle or as town it is unclear but Sotty7 could clear that up for us.

Both.

As I just said, Sotty7's reason for her Day 1 votes feels genuine but otherwise she's still super weird

If my votes feel genuine what's so weird about me? Is it the way I followed OGML? We don't have a huge history but I have played a couple of games with him awhile back. I just like genuine sounding town like people. His actions today are off beat, I don't think his vote on me really stands up, but I'm willing to see where he goes from here.

I agree with you RE: Zekrom25 and probably ABR, but more content from both would be good.

[Sotty7]

I'm sorta caught up but I am going to set a V/LA until the 15th because I have an intense next few days of work. I will try to squeeze in some reading if I get the time, but I will be back.

[Sotty7]

kabooooom

Because lurker sauce? I can get down with that.

Hey Fonz, which questions didn't I follow up on? Because it looks like you're just copying something Sotty said here? But upping the ante.

TBH, I haven't been paying a lot of attention to Sotty. I can't remember any of her case on you. But sure, it's easy enough to find in your ISO. Just a stream of questions which seem to exist for their own sake. Let me go find.

Yup, thank you. It's almost questions for questions sake. I thought I was the only one seeing it.

I was half expecting to come back to a lot missed but it isn't really too much which is kinda helpful and a little unsettling at the same time. Thankfully I have more time later next week to actually dig a little deeper into the game than just a surface read.

I did think a little more about OGML vote on me and I don't really like it much considering yesterday he seemed more than perfectly happy to have me follow him everywhere, he barely mentions me even when asked about our pairing he ignores it. But today I am scummy enough for a vote? I would have thought he would have mentioned some unease about me yesterday following him around or maybe the timing is off, I'm not sure. I would just like a more detailed reasoning outside "wagon analysis." when he comes back from his prod.

[Sotty7]

I'm worried about Fonz and Sotty because they are both capable players who have decided to be rather pathetic in this game.

This is pretty fair at me right now. I am off work tomorrow so I will get to actually reading stuff.

[Sotty7]

@Sotty - how would you feel about a shift to Inhim?

I'm asking because I'll admit to a gut town on Zdenek right now. I could possibly even swing over to a Nobody at this stage because...meh, I don't really have a take there one way or the other and I like that better than ABR or Zdenek as a lynch choice.

I could possibly switch to inhim, mostly because he replaced the terrible Goodfather, but it would be a apathetic vote for sure. AKA I'm not keen on doing right now.

EDIT: This has actually changed since I just saw deadline is this Friday, which kinda sneaked up on me. But I would like to do my reading first.

I have been clamoring for votes on Zekrom, kabooom, and NS for some time now. No traction AT ALL, except a little on NS. And now I am at four or five votes in like a page? Come on. Why do you think that is?

I don't remember any of this clamoring at all.

@Sotty7

Well I'm not lynching you. I had a relatively strong scum read on Skies but everything is reading green when I see your posts, you're a town read.

Aegor is being pretty terrible, his whole bluster of clamoring for votes is not exactly how I remember it. If anything he has blown with the wind, changing his vote on a whim and going with the flow of the town. His vote on you is the first one that didn't seem to fit that description. I remember there being a reason for why I had a town read on him so I will be looking back to refresh myself a little more on him.

I am real tempted to vote NS but it feels like a cop-out. This is why I don't like playing with him much because he never seems to be productive. I don't remember much of what he has posted to be honest but I am always willing to lynch him as a personal bais from me.

Thor is a really dangerous player.

True but he also feeling very town and if he is town this can only be good for us.

I dunno, maybe you want revenge on Brian and it is clouding your reads.

I have recently suffered from this, but links would be a good idea.

[Sotty7]

So, Aegor is still probably town.

Reading though his ISO there are a couple of things that I kinda almost hate. An unexplained vote on Chreve, the way he abandons his good early pressure on Garmr for an easier ABR vote. Also his vote on himself is terrible, even more so after he made a point to comment on emo’s “almost self hammer” back on day one. I also don’t like the Thor vote.

His votes on Chreve/ABR/NS could be explained away by this comment on wanting to lynch all “lurk sacks” and his desire to achieve a lynch. He takes stands against both the emo and Eld wagons which I heavily agree with and even though he is bouncing around I don’t really get any scum vibes from his moves, it’s hard to explain because Thor is right. There is no real pressure from him to make people vote his lynch targets, but I’m not feeling the undercurrent of scum motivation either.

I would like him to explain the differance between this post and this one. I have a idea, but would like it in his own words. Also some clarity on his Chreve vote would be good. The back and forth between him and Thor just feels like two frustrated townies that are tangled up together.

so the question to debate is - are the above listed actions because he's scum, or because he's a weak player who has become offended at me on a personal level and stopped playing the game?

I don't think I would say "weak" but I do think he has allowed himself to become overly frustrated with the game state and wants to provoke something,

anything

even if that means a vote on himself for example.

I guess it basically comes down to when I read his posts all together I can see where he is coming from and I don't feel like he is actively looking for his next move, it just feels like natural transitions at times. He feels genuine when he posts, even if I don't agree with him all the time.

[Sotty7]

Next up is NS

As expected his ISO is pretty empty, but he does post a few stances here and there. Lazy votes on both emo and Chreve and perhaps ABR although he has stuck with this one lately. One thing that sticks in my craw is when he accuses me of coaching emo. Despite it being a dumb accusation, I don't see scumNS sticking his head out and making himself a target of mine. It just goes against scum survival instincts, even more so when you have a meta of lurking and can just bury your head in the sand. It just seems risky.

A) Being on both emo and chevre
B) Self-admitted coasting
C) Emerging from a lurk to place a useless vote
D) Showing up at the deadline and not providing an opinion
E) Votes the flavor of the week wagon this morning with no reasoning.

Out of all of these D is probably the biggest felony B, C and E are all hallmark NS tactics. I guess I'm just not moved by this wagon. I get it, I understand it and if push comes to shove I will likely join it. But it's not compelling to me by a long shot.

[Sotty7]

Are you willing to vote with me on ABR right now?

[Sotty7]

Fair enough. I forgot you moved off Thor, I was working off the last VC.

Unvote, vote: ABR

The lurking. The lack of passion. The POE. The deadline. All good reasons why my vote is moving here.

[Sotty7]

I'll consider it.

Hey Fonz, what's your read on bulb right now?

[Sotty7]

There won't be a no lynch. I'll promise you that.

[Sotty7]

I'm heading off to work, but I will be back around 7pm CST to switch my vote if needed.

[Sotty7]

Vote: ABR

This guy really needs to die.

Bulb is also probably scum at this point. His whole interaction with fonz/Tebow on day one was really off. Fonz pours the heat on him and at one point Bulb makes a comment about how he was barely paying attention to him when all he had done for posts before was reply in their little back and forth. Their whole interaction just really struck me as off. Throw on his weak suspicion of emo that he just keeps falling back on and we have scum.

[Sotty7]

Okay I'm glad it wasn't just me having trouble logging in yesterday. Are there a lot of posts missing?

[Sotty7]

Bulba also posted an awesome case.

Do you remember what exactly you liked about that Garmr case?

[Sotty7]

Currently sick, but I see I'm not missing much.

V/LA until around Sat afternoon.

[Sotty7]

@Rainbowdash
The last two times we lynchee some one who was lurking, we got town. kabooooom is playing anti-town, yes, but not scummy, and I'm not about to lynch another lurker just to have them flip town. Our numbers are dwindling. We have 16 slots left in game, and 14 that are usable. Tomorrow, it's more than likely we'll be at 14. And if we still haven't caught any scum and we mislynch tomorrow, if there are six, which seems highly likely for a big game, the games over.

To people saying not to lynch the ABR slot- if I think it's scummy I'm gonna try to. And I do.

VOTE: ABR-SLOT

Why are you voting for the ABR slot if it isn't for lurking?

I like ABR more for scum than Kabooooom at this point which is why my vote is there. Switching to Kabooom would be more for his annoying info-less playstyle than me thinking he is scum.

[Sotty7]

Time is freeing up for me, let's kick this game's ass!

VOTE: Aegor

What am I missing on Aegor? I feel like he is town, but both you and Thor are two of my stronger town reads and are reading him as scum, break it down for me.

[Sotty7]

Okay i'm here, I'm sorry.

I will be catching up today.

[Sotty7]

Sotty, you asked why I thought Aegor was scum, what do you think now?

I appreciate the case effort but I'm still not overly convinced. I think Zdenek said it right when he said that Aegor's actions have matched his posting and while I don't always agree I don't get a scum vibe from him either. His hopping around and lynch pandering is getting kinda annoying but I understand somewhat where he is coming from even if it grates on me.

Wow.. I just realized we really only have 11 people able to vote...
I think zdeneck is scum. I'm not about to go through nearly 200 posts of his right now though because I don't think I can form a wagon on him in 2 days...

Don't waste time with this. He's town.

HS, vote kab.

Oooor, you could vote ABR and we would only need two other people to reach a lynch.

Yes. This.

PEOPLE VOTING ABR, SWITCH TO KAB. Surely no one can argue that kab is so useful as to merit another shot at life, so join the wagon.

You need to move back to ABR. Thor should move back too then we have lynch -1.

I really think ABR is the best of the three top lynches right now. I will compromise if I have to but ABR is the scummest out of the three by quite a way for me.

[Sotty7]

Good on you, Thor.

vote: Bulbazak

This one dies Today imo.

Totally down for this.

Vote: Bulb

[Sotty7]

Rainbow is a good second option at this point, but Bulb pushing on emo again is just ridiculous. Dismissing ABR as policy. Yeah, ick.

[Sotty7]

Okay, let's put aside your shit for every phase so far this game where you default to "my scum read, the emogirl slot, is still alive so this means I can just coast with emogirl is scum every phase with zero effort just for everyone to dismiss your claims yet you still default to that point. Let's put aside that. In this post alone you try to justify my lynch without even referencing my interactions with ABR. Then you say that it is disturbing no one is looking at the associations between people when ABR was alive when I was the main aggressor along with yessiree on ABR for Day 1.

Yup, exactly. That bulb vote is a terrible coast and his pressure on your slot has been for the longest time.

@Sotty - I'm with you there. My other one is Aegor, though, not Bulba. What are your thoughts about that?

Basically I could be convinced when it comes to Aegor now. His pressure on me to unvote ABR yesterday when he was the leading wagon was all out of whack. I have a much higher scum read on bulb mostly because of his push on the emo slot, I pretty much hate it. There is also some gut thrown in there RE: my bulb read.

And emo's case on Chevre is not half-bad, especially by this game's standards.

This isn't a good enough reason to like a case. What in particular do you think is good about it?

[Sotty7]

Also, pay attention to, at a point when ABR was the bigger wagon and Kaboom was coming up, Aegor did that odd move to Kaboom all while constantly re-stating that he was good with either wagon, but only really selling the Kaboom one. Feels like a bus he got spooked on. I'll admit I say this without really paying attention to ho whe got on the wagon (and I probably should look at that) but his actions there do read as nervy buddy to me rather than frustrated town looking for any lynch at all.

Yeah, that's what really made me move from town towards scum when it comes to Aegor. The fact he basically refused to vote ABR until it was painfully clear Kab wasn't being lynched even though ABR was the biggest wagon. He kept going on and on about wanting a lynch and stating he will basically freak out if there was a no lynch and yet his actions weren't matching up with what he was ranting about. There was a strong disconnect. The read is weak and I feel like both him and Rainbow aren't scum together but I am much more willing to vote him today than I was yesterday.

Can you give me the quick bullet points for the Bulba wagon? I get the feel a lot of it is centered in the earlier game days that I didn't read.
I don't feel I have a good grasp of it.

Quick points are basically this:

Bulb votes Emo on a connection in the very early game between her and Garmr that was based of her use of the phrase "actual case". Emo voted for bulb because she found his reasoning to vote Garmr at the time to be BS. She said something along the lines of that she was willing to vote anyone who had an actual case on Garmr no matter who and that someone happens to be bulb. I really feel like he blew the whole thing out of proportion and has used that exchange at the beginning of the game to anchor in most of his scum hunting, there is little to no adaptation from him - see his vote back on that slot despite the ABR flip. This all happens early, I would probably recommend reading the first six pages or so and seeing what you think.

Another thing that is grating on me is that Bulb also has an interaction with Fonz/Tebow that feels off to me. The biggest thing is that half way though bulb tries to brush of Fonz by claiming he wasn't paying any attention to him when all he was doing was responding to Fonz. It was just out of place and looked like he was trying to belittle fonz and I don't really get the reasoning as to why he would go out of his way to do that.

[Sotty7]

Sorry weekend was busy. V/LA until tomorrow.

[Sotty7]

Holy crap it's Thesp! Long time no see!

Can you tell me why Rainbow is a good lynch option but yet you are voting her big wagon? Seems like a disconnect there.

Catching up on the rest I missed, just had to acknowledge Thesp first

[Sotty7]

You must have me confused with someone else. I never pressured you to unvote ABR. In fact, I maintained throughout the entire day that I would be perfectly content with an ABR lynch. Please quote my statements that led you to believe I was pressuring you to unvote ABR specifically

Ok.

I am going to shit myself in anger if there is a No Lynch today.

Anyone not voting kab is hardclaiming scum.

PEOPLE VOTING ABR, SWITCH TO KAB. Surely no one can argue that kab is so useful as to merit another shot at life, so join the wagon.

You need to move back to ABR. Thor should move back too then we have lynch -1.

I really think ABR is the best of the three top lynches right now. I will compromise if I have to but ABR is the scummest out of the three by quite a way for me.

You have to compromise. We have no time left.

Lynch kab today. Lynch ABR tomorrow. Everyone wins. Why is this so effing difficult to do? Clearly there is support enough for both lynches so can we please just do it already?

I will let the indomitable Madeline Kahn express my feelings:

Spoiler:

And to the people who said we had plenty of time like five days ago, maybe you now understand why I was trying to get a lynch settled then.

ZDENEK VOTE FOR KAB YOU INSUFFERABLE DONUT

etc.

Yes you expressed a desire to lynch ABR today but that still doesn't explain why you wouldn't switch when he was the biggest wagon. You were talking the talk but not walking the walk.

This however, is a great post and I also like your posts on bulb. This is the stuff we need more of, not the throwing toys out of the pram stuff.

I can see how pressuring a scumread is such a great sin.

But it's really lazy pressure. You're not going out of your way to get anyone to vote with you, you just fall back on that vote when you don't seem to have anything else to do. It's like you don't believe it, the pressure feels extremely empty. And now your new point on Emo is that she was distancing her buddy, your taking the new info of an ABR flip and instead of using it to look at your positions again, you are stuffing it to fit your emo is scum view.

You remember Garmr, right? He was the guy who kept trying to derail building wagons d2.

Wagons on who?

1) I just finished a game with scum kaboom: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=36651 . That game had some serious problems, but it might be worth checking out. kaboom has lurked a lot more in this game, but a newbie is easier than a large game like this.

Since you were in the game, what is your opinion on him compared to this game?

I'm backing off on Aegor. I think a lot of people are voting him because they are annoyed with his "sissy fit". Yes I still very much dislike his wagon position at the end of the day but he seems to have two sides. One being the annoying anti town I am always right BS that sadly, a few players have in this site meta. But he is also pushing good cases today that some people like emeraldemon just aren't acknowledging. The more he makes those kinds of posts the better, but Rainbow is right, the behavior it's antitown which doesn't equal scummy. Unless of course anyone has any real hard meta against him, then speak now or forever hold your peace.

I'm still very much leaning on bulbscum with a dash of Rainbow. This Thor pressure is BS, he is total town. I can't help but feel the scum would be looking to take down active members of the town to further the apathy that has gripped us and it's crap. Just like this Kab wagon. I mean why is he scum other than he is annoying. Maybe I missed the case, but we did just flip a scum and I'm not interested in a policy lynch at this point.

I have been admittedly ignoring Cherve, his review of the days last wagons were full of IIA but I will have to look back to really place emo's attacks on him. He is currently null with a slight pull to town.

[Sotty7]

I acknowledge RainbowDash was pushing kabooooom hard yesterday. I also acknowledge I might be wrong about RainbowDash. Heck, part of me wants to go for RainbowDash instead of kabooooom simply because kabooooom was the other wagon when ABR flipped scum. Yet I have some misgivings due to how hard RainbowDash was pushing kabooooom and directly disavowing the ABR wagon. I think scum are more likely to be indirect in defending scumbuddies.

This whole thing is fair enough.

Oh, and can someone tell me why there are several people saying that emeraldemon is likely town? I don't get that at all, but I swear I saw some people saying that.

I was reading him as town (I forget why off the top of my head) but that Aegor vote post has changed that to a slight scum read.

Every single wagon d2.

I'll check it.

[Sotty7]

That said, you're voting a counterwagon to scum yesterday.

I forgot about this. It's a excellent point and another reason why I'm not keen on voting for Kab.

[Sotty7]

I'll be catching up here later today.

[Sotty7]

I don't think Aegor is just anti-town (see 1712). I think he is scum. I'd like to know which cases from him you like. Aegor's vote pattern today has been Bulb, RBD, Chevre, RBD, Bulb, kaboom, Bulb, kaboom. He also says he's scumreading inhimshallibe and highshroomish. He throws out these scumreads like candy on Halloween, but there hasn't really been much pressure that I've seen. There was a little on Bulba (1970, 1996), but then he backed off and is now voting kaboom again, for reasons I can't fathom (it's another vote without any explanation). I will say it seems kinda town to me that he'd townread the people leading a wagon against him (Thor and myself).

I really thought I mentioned the cases I meant in my post, but for some reason I didn't. I was talking about the bulb and Rainbow, the only real cases he has made today. Your post 2007 just mentioned about his anti town behavior before you put your vote on him and not what actually made him scummy. It felt like you were simply echoing others. Which is why I didn't like it.

Could you also give your read on Kab's meta, since you provided us with it?

Hint: I don't think Aegor is playing that good, but he's probably playing townishly due to speaking his mind even amidst the horror that are his actions.

Pretty much this.

You don't suddenly over N2 realize "oh hey player X who I have been passively defending all of the previous day is playing to his scum meta I better vote him now".

You can. I basically did night one over ABR.

Then you know what happened. He voted Aegor. Then he tried to get the Aegor wagon to move to kab. Then shortly before deadline when it looked like ABR was likely the only way for a lynch to happen he returned.

True. I'm a little more open to ThorScum after his backing off over Aegor today and now basically calling him town. That's kinda strange to me and I'm trying to sort it in my mind how that works. It looks like I help defuse the Aegor wagon and then he doesn't bother to fight that, which could mean he didn't really believe in the vote in the first place.

Basically I'm not buying the ABR bus.

Sotty7 feels like she is coasting.

True. I'm trying to change, but it's hard.

Also: Hi!! I'm loving these replacements lately.

Instead, you seem to assume that the people who were not on your wagon (Tebow, OhGodMyLife, and Sotty7) were Town because they "understood your motives" and did not vote you to begin with.

I don't think this is true RE:me. At one point Emo freaks out about the possibility of me hammering her despite the fact I had been calling her town since the start of the game.

I'm not really sure why you are focusing so much on your town read of emo instead of your scum reads. You should probably change that.

[Sotty7]

I'm not really sure why you are focusing so much on your town read of emo instead of your scum reads. You should probably change that.

It's a scumread of Emo.
Other than that, I agree with this point.

It is? We're talking about PJ here right?

I currently have a Townread on emogirl123, but one thing is actively confusing me:

@Sotty - here's my dismissal of Rainbow for you. Notice that you quote her complaining that my meta shift happened oveernight (as insane as that is already to call a scumtell, at least it's a stance) I have since shown her that the suspicion started at the end of the previous Day phase, and not overnight.

Her reaction?

To complain that I didn't mention meta at that point (even though I did instantly on Day Start) and to, otherwise, have her case totally unaffected.

You think this is a good case still because...somehow my Aegor interactions look weird to you? I'd love to hear your thoughts.
And get your sheep.

I hear ya. I think that whole point is null anyway even if what she says is true and you did shift over night because I have done that before myself. Basically it's junk either way. Right now I'm getting some town flickers just because whenever she posts she sounds so genuine with it even if I think it is crazy. I'm wondering if scum would make it a one v one against you considering how many people are town reading you. I'm just a sucker for genuine sounding posts and it's making me second guess myself.

Also, is emo right about your Aegor vote being a bait vote true or is this fulling things up to make you look worse? I got a little lost in your back and forth, I'm not afraid to admit that.

[Sotty7]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=43234

Oh also, there seems to be a fuck up with the vote tags today. We should just go old school and use bold to stop things from being confusing, unless it is just my browser in that case ignore me.

[Sotty7]

No, looks like you're right, she called Thor/Kab and voted Kab at the start of day, and it's the first real push there.
She didn't move off Kab though till after I made more of a noise about it and scumread her.
Eh...I dunno, for me it's the case, I just don't think a town Rainbow would push this sort of case on me,a nd I do think a scumRainbow would be willing to toss me into a scumspect pool regardless of the amount of support that was there, and functionally I was the one who pushed the scumread into 1 v 1 territory.
Any thoughts on that?

Well as soon as she put her vote on you it made things clear as far as 1 v 1 goes. I don't really think it matters either way who started it first. Is your case on her basically the ABR miss + the bad case on you? I take it you also have experience with scumRainbow as well.

She calls it baiting, I would call it 'parking my vote and seeing what happens there because I'm going to take some time to get back into the game' but it functionally equates to the same thing. Basically I admitted that my vote was placed there off a very microcosm view of his play yesterday, and when I looked at more of his play I decided the vote had no real merit. I don't have an issue with it being called baiting, and I do think there is bait energy there, but it was not my sole nor principal goal in placing my vote as I did.

Okay, looking back you do basically park your vote there and then basically do other things which ties up with your reasoning. For some reason I thought there was more fire there, maybe I am remembering yesterday.

[Sotty7]

@thsp - Just lynch Thor tomorrow. That's all I ask of anypony who is voting me. Lynch Thor tomorrow. He is pushing me in a minimalist (being generous to him) case that only popped up once he got concerned that I was going after him. This is scum who sees a mislynch figuring things out and is trying to diffuse the situation.

Why are you already so resigned to your lynch?

[Sotty7]

So you say that you more open to Thor-scum, but then you say that you're not buying a bus? I don't see how those two thoughts work together at all.

If you read my whole post you would have. My issue was with him backing of Aegor. The ABR point from Rainbow is junk.

If she doesn't "buy" the bus it means she doesn't think I bussed convincingly enough to look town.
Her comment is still nonsensical - but it makes internal sense.

I guess I wasn't clear enough. This whole point of Rainbows is junk, I don't think it is a good case. It doesn't look like a bus to me, which means it doesn't make you scum.

Because I can read gamestates fairly well.

I think that this is going to end with a deadline lynch on me. Its going to be lazy and im going to make sure that those who are going to end up voting me vote Thor tomorrow because he is trying to sneak this lynch too early.

Kinda like yesterday, ABR was almost for sure the lynch for at least a few days before the lynch actually happened.

If it does end with a deadline lynch on you it's because of posts like this. You should fix that.

Why do you agree you have been coasting?

Because it is mostly true. My free time has been sparse but I could be posting more. I'm trying to improve this.

Why did you describe emogirl123's reaction to the possibility of you hammering as "freaking out"? From what I recall, she was basically saying that she did not think it was wise to poke at you while she was at L-1 because poking at people who are not voting you might cause them to vote you:

I call it freaking out because I had been calling her town ALL GAME. The idea I would come along and hammer her despite that was insane.

[Sotty7]

Above is talking to Aegor, and I just don't really see where it's coming from - if I could get the context of this cleared up I'd be right by Sotty.

So I went into this game looking to work with ABR, I was kinda upset he was distant but he can be like that at times. However as the game wore on it became something I could deny less and less as his meta until it became somewhat clear he was actually scum. I gave him plenty of time, maybe too much to kick into townABR and he just didn't, so I changed my mind on him. That's pretty much it. I didn't really change my mind during a big discussion in thread so there looks to be little progression I am sure.

Out of the wagons around I would switch to Rainbow and maybe PJ but not Kab. I do think bulb is the best option of the viable wagons right now. Lets lynch there okay? Okay.

[Sotty7]

4.) Sotty7, could you explain again why you changed your mind on Albert B. Rampage.

There really is nothing to add to what I posted in 2265 unless you have a specific question.

[Sotty7]

PJ, yes, but Sotty votes for ABR in that post, so again, I give slack.

Things change when you actually vote for teh scumz.

Plus I'm pretty sure I have been voting for bulb since the ABR lynch so I'm not sure what his point is on that.

[Sotty7]

Or to put it another way, there are two people on the Rainbow wagon and five of us on the bulb wagon. What is stopping you from swinging over and putting him at lynch -1 at this point?

[Sotty7]

My point is that I consider it a scumtell when somebody votes scum while actually pursuing a case on somebody else simultaneously. It is an easy way to distance while being open to (and advocating) alternate lynches.

This was actually the note I thought inHimshalllibe might have been making to himself. But then he never followed up on it. And apparently now Sotty7 gets "slack" because the vote was on scum. I also think it is possible inHimshallibe is partnered with Albert B. Rampage and so was purposefully trying to highlight for the future players who technically voted for Albert B. Rampage but could arguably be lynched for pursuing other players. I do not like his lack of follow-up, especially after I directly asked him about his post. At the very least I would like to know why the post was so notable.

In sum, I am actually convincing myself while thinking on this issue that I think at least one of Sotty7 and inHimshallibe are scum. The entire interaction between the two seems they are at a point where they are both overly polite / not trying to step on each others toes, but I have seen no reason for why this would be the case. (Not the best wording, hopefully the essence is coming out here).

Your point is extremely weak.

I voted for ABR and spoke about about bulb at that time because I was still trying to sort bulb in my mind and believed ABR to be more likely scum because of mostly meta reasons. I was happy to lynch ABR while I reviewed bulb (which I did). Now maybe I would think you were making good points if I just never went back to bulb or used any excuse to jump of the ABR wagon and he flipped scum. Since I did neither of these two things I really don't see why having two scum suspects at once is scummy.

Your whole push on me has been pretty scummy to me. For example, your pointless question in asking me to explain again when I voted ABR when I literally just did post before yours. If there was something you didn't believe or wanted more explanation on you should have asked, it's like you are trying to engage me in empty pointless discussion and it is grating on me this close to the deadline, even more so when you are going V/LA soon. Now you think I am scummy because I voted ABR and spoke about my bad feelings for bulb, who I am still voting and have been, pretty much since ABR's death. I feel you're reaching pretty hard.

It's bullshit so yeah, I am saying "get a load of this guy" because I'm just not seeing scum hunting here.

As for the inhim scum movement. I'm not sure what the case on him is. He lurks a little and posts minimally, but is there something he actually did that was scummy? I'd have to look back but I don't remember. I have a null to slight town read on him.

[Sotty7]

"People need to be willing to compromise"

"Stop trying to convince people to compromise your way - compromise my way instead"

Meh.

This could be applied to you too

[Sotty7]

Stressful ass day at work and now I have to go to the dentist so this will be a flyby until probably late tues/weds.

PJ and Thesp are my top two. PJ's vote for Rainbow at deadline just felt big timing wise. Thesp mostly just because how HARD bulb was trying to link emo with his slot.

[Sotty7]

So I'm working on the idea that there is three scum which means we have one more lynch to win. Why would we no lynch today when we basically have to mislynch a bunch of times to lose now? Admittedly I'm terrible at the game math, but at this point surely we just lynch until we find the scum. If the math strongly points away from this then let me know, but I'm currently not interested in a no lynch at all.

So when I spoke about the timing of the PJ Rainbow vote, I just felt at the time that it was almost a pivotal vote looking to swing momentum the other way. Looking back I see suspicion from PJ on Rainbow but it all just feels pretty weak to me. I was probably overly harsh but I'm just not moved by any of his posting so far. His opening day suspicions still on me and Rainbow seems extremely contrived, waiting to see what his re-read draws out.

[Sotty7]

Oh, and I think emogirl died primarily because Bulba's case practically cleared her, rather than because her reads were awesome (which they were -- she nailed Bulba) or in an attempt to frame someone. But I could be wrong.

Well yeah. she was obv town from the start of the game, but bulb flipping scum made her as confirmed as you can get in these games.

[Sotty7]

No lynching's dumb in this instance. With current townreads we're close to POEing this puppy.

This exactly.

I don't really remember a lot about HS, he replaced OGML who I thought was really town on day one cause we basically had the same thought process 90% of the time. Then he suddenly voted me day two in a pretty poor manner before dropping off the face of the planet. That peaked my interest a little, but I would have to pay more attention to HS to figure out if that was just a misstep on OGML's part. He's been somewhat of a null factor for me in all honesty.

[Sotty7]

@Sotty - stop being useless Sotty. I've played with dynamic Sotty before, I'd like to play with dynamic Sotty now. Please bring dynamic Sotty out.

Hi. I was on both the bulb and the ABR lynch. You can stop calling me useless now.

[Sotty7]

The most straightforward example: suppose you are convinced 6 players are Town ("Town pool") and the scum are therefore necessarily within the 4 remaining players ("elimination pool"), which is exactly how many lynches we have. No Lynching can only increase the odds of winning because it increases the odds scum will kill one of the 4 remaining players in the "elimination" pool. If that happens, then there will be 3 players to lynch between 4 lynches. That way, if it turns out the "elimination pool" was faulty in the first place, the Town will still get one last attempt at a lynch between the players who were considered Town (when in actuality one of them was Scum). And of course even if scum manage to only hit the "Town pool" then it will not change the fact that all 4 players int he "elimination pool" will be lynched.

Isn't the fundamental point of no lynching at it's peak when we get down to four players? Isn't that when it increases our chances the most? I mean unless you are arguing we no lynch more than once, I just don't get why we do it now rather than near the end.

Thor what's your scum pile outside PJ? I'm curious on your reads of Rainbow, Kab and inhim right now and if they have changed. I should have some time today to look back though HS and emeraldemon, two slots I'm not really sure on at this point. That way I can sort them either side of the pile.

I do think PJ's points on Thesp feeling outside the game are pretty good. It kinda struck me as a red flag after we have lynched two scum, for him to feel despondent like that.

[Sotty7]

Of course, the real question, and the more difficult one: does all this mean PJ is scum?

I think the real question is why didn't you provide us with your opinion along with this question?

Since when is being 'right' and being 'useful' synonymous? You know exactly what I mean.

Perhaps, but I feel like you were calling me out for no reason, I'm working though this game and calling me useless was pretty bullshit so I wasn't about to let you slide with that. AKA I'm pretty sure I have done more to lynch scum this game than you.

That aside, I actually want to lynch Thesp at this point.

Kab is pretty obv town. He seemed open and willing to engage with you and all that is perfectly fine. Do I like how he is playing? No, I don't, but it doesn't make him scum. Rainbow I think is also town, but like you this is mostly a gut reaction. Just the way her wagon was going yesterday and instead of fighting it she just wanted us to lynch you the next day. I mean, I just don't buy scum giving up. I just got all kind of town pings towards the end of the day that I didn't want to even compromise with her lynch like I said I was like a day or so before.

inhim is town like I thought, but didn't you have some suspicions on him yesterday? Or am I mixing that up with Thesp? I'll have to look back. I just remember people pushing weakass scumminess on him.

My current scum pile is Thesp, PJ, HS and emeraldemon. Thesp playing weak at the start of the day was extremely out of sorts from what I remember of him. I just don't see how town, even town that has been wrong at every turn, can come into today feeling down. We're a lynch away from winning the game. Considering how relatively painful it was to get both of those lynches I really feel like strutting around all day today, fuck the haters. I'm going to look back on the vote exchange between Thesp's slot and bulb in the early game, you were quick to clear his slot for that despite not reading day one, can you detail why?

PJ because a little of Chreve but mostly because he's come in and been very off the beaten track of this game despite reading it twice or at least almost twice now. The no lynch thing is crap, I feel like he knows it too. I might need to review his Rainbow push, Scum loyalty didn't make much sense to me the first time he said it, so we'll see.

HS because he fell completely off the radar for me. I can't even tell you what he has done lately cause I don't know. Defaults into scum.

emeraldemon is tricky. I thought he was town in the early game because of his newbiness, but he comes out and starts talking about things like multiball and even SKs, it just feels a little wrong. Bulb does vote him early and abandons it with much thought. I just feel like his posts are hiding something, it's little things like in his last one asking about PJ being scum rather than offering an opinion on what he posted himself. It's like he knows more than he is letting on and I can't put my finger on what that is.

PJ has fallen down my lynch list at this point a little. But I am still very eager to see what more he has to put into the game.

[Sotty7]

You're clearly horribly misreading something since I never indicated this.

He might be talking about the fact you said you would lynch either me or Thesp when yesterday you thought I was town

[Sotty7]

inhim is town like I thought, but didn't you have some suspicions on him yesterday? Or am I mixing that up with Thesp? I'll have to look back. I just remember people pushing weakass scumminess on him.

I see this wasn't you. You came around on him after the ABR lynch. Ignore this now.

[Sotty7]

VOTE: Petroleum Jelly

emeraldemon why the hell are you voting PJ?

[Sotty7]

It's hard for me to play to my old levels because I work way too much. But I standby the fact I have been far from useless in this game. This argument however is pointless so I'll leave it there.

I don't suspect HS for giving up. I don't think he has given up at all. He has been posting I just don't remember what he has been posting because it's probably a bunch of empty stuff. I mean, his vote is on Aegor right now? I have no real idea why. OGML was really townie in day one but it's all been down hill from there. This is nothing like the Rainbow situation at all at least to me.

Please make a emeraldemon town case because I just don't see it. If I am wasting my time there it would be nice to know so I can just focus on maybe Thesp or PJ.

[Sotty7]

and what do you think of thor??

I really want him to be town, but I feel like he keeps tripping up and it gives me red flags and it's annoying me. I guess it's annoying me because he is probably town and I just want him to get on the same page as me but instead he's all off in another land saying things I don't agree with and it's making me pout.

[Sotty7]

Eeeeehhhhh

Maybe. He's not my top lynch candidate at this point, he needs to explain why he is voting PJ and maybe we can work from there.

[Sotty7]

Really I just have this feeling that the last scum is in the group who is saying "its the ones that didn't bus" and if that's the case get some serious conversation on which of them (by them it means which of Sotty/Thor) played the bus card.

Yeah, I haven't said that. I don't think Thor really has either.

[Sotty7]

@sotty
When Chevre came under pressure early day 1 for his vote, he chickened out and unvoted in a way I thought was suspicious (387, see my post 2145).
Chevre's early game had multiple big walls that felt like IioA to me (e.g. 1118).
Bulba actively fought against Chevre being lynched (1995, 2128, 2157), even though there wasn't much of a wagon on him at that time.
emogirl's NK may not mean anything, but it may mean PJ/Chevre was nervous.
PJ's first post on joining the game and rereading was to FoS people on Chevre's [his] first wagon (2204). That one may mean nothing, but it bugs me.
I disagree with PJ's no-kill logic and think it might be scum looking to stall for night.

I intentionally ended my post with a question because I wanted people to answer it. So sotty, what is your read on PJ/Chevre?

Thanks for this.

I agree very much with the IIOA, some of your other points not so much. I'm pretty sure emo was killed for being super active town and the bulb defending, it's weak but I can maybe see it. I will agree that PJ's opening into the game was very poor and it made me much more open to his wagon especially after he went back and forth with his supposedly town emo read. I felt he was stalling for time when we were so close to the deadline, it was pretty pointless. I voted for Chevre after his terrible emo vote and I still don't like it looking back.

I am still torn a little between him and Thesp. Thesp still pushing on Kab is almost mindnumbing. I get it he is bad and we had the badness but there seem to be no arguments for why he is scum, at least nothing I have seen. What's your read on Thesp?

[Sotty7]

I think what he meant was the ones who were saying "but I was on the scum wagons! There is no way scum would do that!"

Well we weren't saying that either. I was bristling against Thor calling me useless when I haven't been. Our argument was him strictly telling me to pull my socks up and me saying "well I have limited time but I was on both scum wagons what more do you want me to do?"

Nobody used that against anyone else as a form of a scum push which is what Rainbow is claiming happened. AKA when she says:

Really I just have this feeling that the last scum is in the group who is saying "its the ones that didn't bus"

With me and Thor that never happened

[Sotty7]

There's also a point where Brian Skies and Slandaar are big wagons with ~2 days to go. ABR moves from Slandaar to emeraldemon, which implies to me he doesn't care which of Slandaar and Brian Skies gets lynched.

This is actually a really good point and I forgot this happened. I went back and looked at emeraldemon's point in defense of the Thesp player slot in post 2348 and it got me reading back over some of the first day. It does look very much like ABR is just jumping around trying to secure any lynch that isn't his when Slandaar starts to pick him apart. He looks like he is panicking which would mean I am barking up the wrong tree with emeralemon.

[Sotty7]

I will admit I frankly take PJs last post as a scum claim.

The discouraging post or the real post before that?

[Sotty7]

I can honestly say I didn't even consider it.

You also apparently think no one bussed ABR and that if any bussing happened on Bulba it was done last minute. So it's not like you're coming that far out of left field compared to us. Why do you find our stance unusual then?

I also hadn't consider it either. Which is why I hadn't brought it up. I don't really want to say either way that no scum would never buss or would buss because it could happen either way. I'm looking more at behavior than voting record because I don't want to get caught in a trap of my own making.

Ignoring every other player? Are you even reading today because that is blatantly not true.

[Sotty7]

I'd like for PJ to post again at least. More from HS would be good too.

[Sotty7]

I voted Aegor for continuity. I didn't have any one else that I felt was scummy. Until now.

UNVOTE
VOTE: SCOTTY

You were practically a non-entity until this game day. You say you aren't useless because you were on both wagons, but I've barely even noticed you all game, but I guess that feeling is mutual.

There is no scotty in this game.

[Sotty7]

Actually, I am going to start with an argument for why I am Town. I will stick with the Rule of Three.

This basically made me want to skip the whole post. I'll come back to it later, but lets here more about who is scum first then maybe we can figure out if you are town that way.

[Sotty7]

Sotty are you going to vote someone?

Yup!

I was gonna just leave it at that but I realized that is pretty lame. I was torn at the start of the day on who to vote, at least before I had real targets now it's down to the last little push and I need to figure it out. Right now I'm holding back my PJ vote, mostly because I'm not ready to end the day yet.

Just reiterating - If Thesp and PJ are town, its Sotty or Thor as the last scum

So you were just arguing that no scum wouldn't be on at least one of the scum lynches. Lets flip it and say what are the odds of scum bussing both partners in this kinda game?

(This also applies to Sotty7 to a lesser extent)

I'm sorry! I was never trying to be an ass to you, I apologize if I came off that way, I get frustrated sometimes. <3

Also how confident are we that there are only 3 scum? 4 is also possible yes?

Pretty sure we riot if there are four scum.

Had a long day but I have tomorrow and weds off (getting a tooth pulled :sadness: ) So I will commit to reading though PJ's latest post again and seeing if I am missing something big. I understand inhim's issues, but I would love to hear more from him as well before the day ends.

[Sotty7]

Do you think that scum would never bus at any point in a mountainous game? Especially with ABR and Bulb as scum?

I think maybe a one or the other could happen but not both. Especially bulb, I never felt he was in danger of being lynched until we got pushed into a deadline crunch and people compromised. bulb was much stronger than ABR and you can see that by the fact that there was never a serious wagon on him until the end. I think your reasoning surrounding the bussing and lack of bussing is pretty weak considering you have set it up to basically clear you and cast doubt on people that actually voted scum. It's making it hard to take you seriously.

I think that Bulb was actually trying to bus him but he couldn't ever get it going, kept bouncing off him and then back onto emo. I just think it was a complete failure on his part to be able to pull the bus off. All Bulb was trying to do was tie emo and Garmr. I don't see scum do nothing but try and tie together two town the entire game. Trying to tie together town to scum makes sense, especially with the really bizarre relationship between Garmr and Bulb. Being aggressive towards a partner really isn't all that abnormal either, it tends to far more be personality clash than anything else. Not sure I have seen players that get along as scum and then hate each other as town.

This was partly my reasoning for suspecting Thesp. It just seemed much too forced when bulb pushed on both emo and Garmr linking them together in his "amazing" case. From what I remember he also put a really weak vote on Garmr the start of day two or three and was still mostly pushing emo. It was out of place.

1.) I am not counting Sotty7 as a Townread. But in the event I am lynched I do not want my last words on Sotty7 to be that I think she is scum. I still think there is a good potential she is scum, but I find it less likely than I did before.

I... Okay I got nothing.

and what do you think?? you are not on pj wagon either.

What he said.

[Sotty7]

Sorry - V/LA until tomorrow.

[Sotty7]

Forgive me. Reading up now.

[Sotty7]

@kab and @sotty (almost misspelled that again) Can you just answer the fucking question. I'M TRYING TO DO STUFF. Except you kab. Oh, and you too, sotty. Wait, neither of you should give a flying fuck because the question wasn't directed towards either of you. And yes, I do. And sotty, I ditto Thor.

I thought it was a pretty empty question actually which is why I ignored it. Looking at the votes on PJ at the time you asked this question my answer is no.

Oh, I meant to list Thor's positives:

For me the biggest Thor positive is that when he replaced in the game was in super slow apathy mode. ScumThor could have easily slipped into that like 90% of the players and I don't think anyone would have battered an eyelid. Instead he joins in and becomes one of the biggest and most proactive posters.

For me I think we lynch PJ and if it's not him then Thesp. That should win us the game. This is pretty much what I was thinking when the day started and little has actually changed.

[Sotty7]

Yeah I'm going to hammer. I was just reading though Rainbow last post. I'll also let HS expand on his question about the PJ wagon if it was going anywhere, if not I'll drop my vote.

[Sotty7]

What was the point of the question? I'm curious.

[Sotty7]

Vote: PJ

[Sotty7]

Vote: Thesp

I still can't get over bulb linking emo to the Garmr slot. I mean, why do that to two townies? I need to take another look back but I do remember feeling Garmr was very town during portions of the game but I can't shake this behavior.

emeraldemon can you hot link me your Rainbow case again?

Thesp, why Rainbow and not Kab?

[Sotty7]

Unvote

Clearly I was too hasty with this. Reading bulb/ABR ISO I feel like I am completely off track. It's looking more like he is linking two players to link them rather than looking to bus.

If you weren't voting emogirl, who would you be voting?

Either Garmr or ABR.

I'm not feeling bulb throwing his whole team under the bus with posts like these.

Maestro (replaced by Rainbow) puts pressure on bulb right when he moves his vote to emo that felt very genuine to me. This was part of the reason I had a town read on this slot. Rainbow voters or pushers what do you think of Maestro's posts in this slot?

I'm trying to cram in as much reading as I can tonight as I know I have busy days upcoming.

[Sotty7]

This is all I've written so far. Honestly a lot of it is about PoE, I have townreads on you and Thesp, and I'm leaning town on HighShroomish, Thor, and Aegor. That leaves RBD and Kaboom.

Fair enough. Can you review Maestro's posts and tell me what you think? I'd also like a little detail on your HS leaning town read. A lot of people have been calling him town and I'm not sure why. I mostly ask because I just read this:

Bulbazak's Hierarchy of Reads (D3)

Town

Zdenek
Thor665
Chevre
Emeraldemon

Null

Albert B. Rampage
Rainbowdash
InHimshallibe
HighShroomish

Null/Scum

Kabooooom
Matias
Sotty7

Scum

Nero Cain
Aegor
Garmr

@Rainbowdash
The last two times we lynchee some one who was lurking, we got town. kabooooom is playing anti-town, yes, but not scummy, and I'm not about to lynch another lurker just to have them flip town. Our numbers are dwindling. We have 16 slots left in game, and 14 that are usable. Tomorrow, it's more than likely we'll be at 14. And if we still haven't caught any scum and we mislynch tomorrow, if there are six, which seems highly likely for a big game, the games over.

To people saying not to lynch the ABR slot- if I think it's scummy I'm gonna try to. And I do.

VOTE: ABR-SLOT

Says we should not lynch a lurker. Votes a lurker slot that is being replaced.

Unvote

Vote HighShroomish

Pages 62 and 66 respectively. Bulb doesn't address HS in between the list and the vote. HS in this time period votes for bulb and then ABR.

[Sotty7]

Maestro (replaced by Rainbow) puts pressure on bulb right when he moves his vote to emo that felt very genuine to me. This was part of the reason I had a town read on this slot. Rainbow voters or pushers what do you think of Maestro's posts in this slot?

It is true that Maestro questions Bulba's logic, but he ultimately sides with bulba and helps him wagon emogirl: 156, 221. Not sure if there's anything to 238. Some of it seems sorta town, nothing strong though.

You're right in that his emo vote was pretty crap. I'm pretty sure I disliked nearly every emo vote though.

[Sotty7]

Day one

Vote Count 1.19

Slandaar (10) -

Chevre

, OhGodMyLife, Aegor, Brian Skies,

Bulbazak

,

Zdenek, Matias, yessiree

,

Albert B. Rampage

,

Slandaar

Brian Skies (4) - Garmr, Sotty7, emeraldemon,

emogirl123

Chevre (2) - Zekrom25,

The Fonz

emeraldemon (1) -

inHimshallibe

emogirl123 (1) - kabooooom

Not voting (1) -

Nobody Special

Day two

Vote Count 2.14

Nobody Special (9) -

The Fonz

, emeraldemon,

Albert B. Rampage

, Aegor,

Bulbazak,

HighShroomish,

Matias, Chevre, inHimshallibe

Albert B. Rampage (3) -

Nobody Special

, Sotty7,

Zdenek

Aegor (1) - Thor665
Nero Cain (1) - Rainbowdash
HighShroomish (1) -

Nero Cain

Garmr (1) - Garmr

Not voting (1) - kabooooom

Day three

Vote Count 3.8

Albert B. Rampage (8) - Sotty7,

inHimshallibe

, HighShroomish,

Zdenek

, kabooooom, emeraldemon, Aegor, Thor665
kabooooom (3) -

Albert B. Rampage

, Rainbowdash,

Chevre

Aegor (1) -

Bulbazak

Bulbazak (1) -

Nero Cain

Not voting (2) - DisCode,

Matias

Day four

Vote Count 4.14

Bulbazak (7) -

inHimshallibe

, Sotty7,

emogirl123

, Aegor, emeraldemon, kabooooom, Thesp
Rainbowdash (2) - Thor665,

petroleumjelly

Aegor (2) -

Bulbazak

, HighShroomish
Thor665 (1) - Rainbowdash

Not voting (0)

Day five

Vote Count 5.9

petroleumjelly (6) - Thor665,

inHimshallibe

, HighShroomish, Aegor, kabooooom, Sotty7
Rainbowdash (2) - Thesp, emeraldemon
Thesp (1) - Rainbowdash

Not voting (1) -

petroleumjelly

I'm putting these here for right now. I'm not seeing anything major, but maybe they will help someone else. I was waiting for inhim to do this but it just never came about.

[Sotty7]

Rainbow's slot is voting for Cheve on the first lynch, so actually she isn't on any lynch.

[Sotty7]

Guys, you are amazing!

[Sotty7]

Would shorter deadlines have helped or hindered this game? I'm in two minds about this.

Shorter night deadlines for sure. Those nights were killer, no lie. The day deadlines worked for me simply because I was so busy most of the day but I'm sure you'll get different opinions on that.

I thought Rainbow did a good job of sounding pretty damn genuine when she became all resigned to her lynch and junk. I am just a sucker for that kind of thing. The only time I got tempted to lynch Rainbow was when HS helped me see that her slot wasn't on any of the lynching wagons. I found that to be a red flag, but I needed more time to read though some other things I was thinking.

Overall despite being apathetic at times we played well as town and I'm pretty impressed we were able to pull this one out. I agree with Thesp that emo stands out, she was crazy town and helped really push us a long when we needed it. I remember thinking she might had been an alt, just by the way she was posting and at times very insightful posts.

Thanks everyone for playing and thanks you Huntress for modding!