NY 173: Knight-Errant 2 - GAME OVER!

[GreyICE]

Apparently according to the mod I'm a jester.

Anyway, that presents an easy win condition.

Vote:GreyICE

[GreyICE]

VOTE: Antihero

Only villains are anti-hero.

If I wasn't a jester I'd be lynching this guy for being obvious scum.

[GreyICE]

you're not getting a reaction

Coaching your scumbuddies already bob?

[GreyICE]

Vote: Bob

[GreyICE]

Call me crazy, but Hopkirk it feels like you are busing Twisted. I know you aren't me but gosh do you remind me of a game where I basically came out of the gate busing my teammate.

Even if you aren't bussing I don't get the feeling that your posts are genuine in anyway.

VOTE: Hopkirk


I like Kublai, they make me laugh.

This post is full retard

Never go full retard

That's Metal Sonic's job

[GreyICE]

(also we should note that KKK is ranting about alignment-nonindicative things, like 'bad reasons for voting', 'how terrible it is when people roleplay' and 'secret hydras are so terrible'. These have nothing to do with anyone's alignment in game, and are a general distraction from mafia. I am sure he feels passionately about him, but like KKK himself, these are utterly irrelevant)

[GreyICE]

Here I'll give you a failproof way of reading me.

1) Is it day 4+?
2) Do the scum have a night kill?
3) Are there no 'confirmed town' players (like masons) who need to be shot alive when a night kill was made?
4) Is GreyICE alive?

If the answer to all of the above is yes, then scum. This so far has failed like twice.

[GreyICE]

Annnnntiiiiii!

You don't have an opinion on me Anti!

I'm sad.

Why meta anti?

[GreyICE]

Annnnntiiiiii!

You don't have an opinion on me Anti!

I'm sad.

Why meta anti?

never pegged you for the needy type, greyice...
._.

what about meta (who's meta)...?

"You don't sound like you did in X Bob!" Meta makes me sad, Anti. Sadness can only be cured with murder.

Is jbomber the scums, anti?

[GreyICE]

Knowledge that you have behaved differently in scum games is why meta is worthless, Bob.

My vote is in a good place.

More need to join.

[GreyICE]

PSA: Monkey is town

[GreyICE]

PSA: Katarina is also town

PSA: Bob is hitting the stage of scum where he knows that there's people with solid scumreads on him, but he's not quite sure what behavior will make him not be lynched.

[GreyICE]

Bob--avoids engaging on points, like the coaching accusation. Dismisses people citing earlier games of his without elaboration.

you aren't serious about the coaching accusation are you

please provide a game where I talked trash as scum

Knowledge that you have behaved differently in scum games is why meta is worthless, Bob.

My vote is in a good place.

More need to join.

my point is that antihero's meta-accusation is worthless

Also he forgot his original post was addressed to Turkish Van, not antihero.

Ze flail

[GreyICE]

my point is that antihero's meta-accusation is worthless

Your response to it, however, is interesting.

But I'll toss you a bone. Find a scum suspect. Make it not shitty players. Unless they're Metal Sonic, because he's scum.

[GreyICE]

I think that does make guza seem even worse, because he seems to be employing the same strategy.

A clever deduction.

Vote: jbomber

I CANNOT TAKE IT ANYMORE

GO BE NEWBSCUM IN A DIFFERENT TOWN

[GreyICE]

No.

I've played with plenty and plenty of newbie town. They have a variety of playstyles. Some of them even come out and tell the town they have no bloody idea what they're doing and need guidance.

You're dancing back and forth like you need to pee but don't want to make any noise, waiting for one of us to give you permission to do the voting thing.

[GreyICE]

Yes, I've noticed you waiting for our permission to vote Guza.

[GreyICE]

Now, kindly explain your vote please.

You rolefishing.

Blatantly.

gg, scumfuck.

'kay drugs are bad

This is a public service announcement

[GreyICE]

Yo Genghis, you scum? Because after MoI I'm no longer believing that long walls full of zero content come from town because they are long and horribly, horribly written. Shall we summarize the content in yours?

Katarina:

Calling yourself town is scummy.

Metal Sonic:

Null!

Hopkirk:

Town, except that he might be scum (so... null?)

Beast:

Scummy-ish

Grey:

Null! Too good of a player (haha, thanks for the compliment. I guess I'm good enough to read you then)

Bob:

Town

PereV:

Null

Notscience:

"You know all that shit about not offending people? Yeah, that's just my usual passive-aggressive bullshit. I'm an asshole whenever I want, I just get mad if others treat me with the same lack of respect that I treat them with."

Also null I'm betting.

That's a lot of fucking nothing from a wall that long.

[GreyICE]

I failed english

Is the last quote me speaking or him.

I feel like burn/hopkirk will make their alignments known after a while, I've seen burn get run up every game he's had thus far and hopkirk is kinda out there. I'm waiting for a good non-lynchbait wagon.

with the kind of scumlords we have floating around out there? bob and khan, for instance.

you're really at that much of a loss?

Aaaaantiiii, the best way to keep me happy is to sheep all my reads and then shoot me night 1

Y/N?

[GreyICE]

*she

And my reads are godlike

Even when I change them

Especially when I change them

[GreyICE]

i dream of a day when you don't think i'm an incompetent stupid ass

sadly, i don't think that day will ever come...

I've never thought of you as that. Besides that one cop game, but we all had the idiot ball that game, so lets not go there. My play was pretty fucking awful too.

A good way to read me is to assume 50% of what I say is humorous and the other 50% deadly serious. And there's zero guidelines as to which is which.

[GreyICE]

@Twisted: Hopkirk is town. Vote scum.

[GreyICE]

Well how else could you replicate my performance?

Nah but it's mostly the way this is like the first real conversation we've had, and it's all sarcastic and shit.

[GreyICE]

Granted Khan is a scumbutt

[GreyICE]

super cereal time:

the main reason i dislike khan is his beast and monkeyman push

ok, fine, i can kind of accept it if he thinks i'm scum and i'm taking advantage of hopkirk (i'm kind of an abrasive asshole sometimes). but, come on, beast is pretty obvtown and monkeyman isn't that far behind him. to my understanding, the beast case amounted to "he's aggressively pushing his hopkirk read", which is pretty weak. the monkey case is even thinner.

now, i'd like to hear more about the "strongest scumreads": grey and jbomber, which apparently failed to come up in the last post.

My major reason is that in his 7 posts, he's managed to RVS vote with 2 of them, spent 3 of them debating with a random hydra about anonymous head reveal, asked a bunch of random questions in 1, and posted a read list that was "le wall de null" with his final.

But all of your reasons are great too.

Also you're town Or at least my favorite serial killer

Vote: KHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

[GreyICE]

@Twisted: I don't do towncases. Read his ISO, you'll convince yourself.

Then vote Khan or Bomber. Or maybe Bob. All good wagons.

[GreyICE]

Grey, I'm not sure about Khan right now; I agree that his stances are less than solid, but I'm also seeing some genuine attempts to figure people out in the process. I disagree about jbomber quite a bit though. His reaction to you calling him out on not voting doesn't read scummy. He eventually places a vote but didn't exactly leap to appease you in the process. I'd expect scum to move one way or hte other, especially with the slight town read on you he professed right around the time you called him out. Brown-nosing scum seem more likely to do that along with placing a vote, or get paralyzed and not vote at all.

Genghis has been a member since what, like 2008? He's had six years on site. He knows the basics of appearing town, he's just

really rusty at it.

Yah, the bomber is probably town tbh.

[GreyICE]

Claim: Rumpelstiltskin

Try it you lousy hag.

[GreyICE]

Why are people not voting to lynch Khan?

I really am curious.

PV - your list is the most confusing thing ever

[GreyICE]

Oh god you use meta to lynch people.

You must be very confused as to why you always get townies

[GreyICE]

Greetings and Hello everyone!

Sorry that guzame didn't post anything of content.

Ashmed Tell, 100% autolynch

Vote: mnemonicdevice

Free day 1 scum lynch

[GreyICE]

Everyone

Sheep Ashmed

Applied properly, it never fails

[GreyICE]

I did catch that, and it doesn't sit well with me. The post surrounding it was also not great. Is it really worth making an instawagon of though? Someone may need to walk me through the theory behind it- is it simply "town don't iso their predecessors"? Because I totally do that.

Iago

Shut up

Vote scum

Your theory

Is done

[GreyICE]

I don't care for your tactics. I'll vote when I'm good and fucking ready.

Iago

Look let me help you

Find a clue

When I'm shot

You can derp on day 2

[GreyICE]

hmm did you not see the post where I vote for him? Does that answer your question?

@grey why does that give you an instant scumread? He seems scum but I woudln't vote for him for that 1 post.

Because, as I said, the ashmed tell, properly applied, is infallible.

And I'd rather vote a person for 2 posts than 20. All you'll get from 20 posts is a person's overall mentality and personality. Bob is a troll, Genghis is a pompous, passive-aggressive ass, antihero lacks self-confidence but is better than he gives himself credit for, Iago thinks they're super important, Malakittens is an awesome person.

There's no fairness in mafia, bomber. If it were fair, we'd give the new guy a pass for Guzame's behavior. We'd let them commit a few scumtells. We'd be real nice and let them get into the game, etc. etc. etc. That's not playing to your win condition. Not at all.

He replaced scum, he knows it, we know it. Let vote follow thought.

[GreyICE]

I don’t like any of beast’s early posts as the logic is dreadful.
167 is an pretty false statement he’s making to try and get an easier lynch.
I changed my mind about the earlier stuff after viewing it again with less bias. It does look bad.

I dislike the way mafiassk only made 3 posts- with nothing but votes- then his last was to hop on a big wagon.

Bob does look bad.

@Mnumonic: You say several times I voted/unvoted with no explanation. Are you saying this because you didn’t read the later explanations or because you disliked them?

I like you. You're going to go far in life.

[GreyICE]

what why is that quoting hopkirk's post.

This software some days

[GreyICE]

Yo PV and Bob

Flirt in Guys Pt 2 or something

It's time to lynch scum.

[GreyICE]

Maybe one of them is the serial killer. We're kind of guaranteed to have one.

I dunno, I just know a scumclaim when I see one.

This could also be a Peregrine/Lootifier situation tbh

[GreyICE]

Genghis, your fence sitting "he's scummy but I'm not voting because I'm going to milk this fake scumread for as much bullshit as the town will buy" is noted and ignored.

[GreyICE]

Implication that I'm seeking to end the day quickly to avoid the 1-vote wagon on me.

Why haven't we lynched this clown?

[GreyICE]

I mean honestly. Lets assume for one second that this read was genuine, and you were actually town.

You would have spent the entire day doing nothing at all. Leaving me 9 votes away from lynch, and pushing the wagon with about as much effect as a flea pushing a lion.

I mean lets pretend you've learned SOMETHING in the 8 years you've spent on site. Does that strike you like you've used that knowledge for anything productive, Genghis?

[GreyICE]

Yeah except I'm not pushing for a 24 hour speed lynch. In fact we're on page

Motherfucking 22

.

We've had reads out the ass. The fact you post wall of null is a reflection of you. Not of what's available.

Reads mean nothing (especially null reads). Blood means everything. If you think you have a non-shitty read, push it. Shit or get off the pot, assclown

[GreyICE]

Yeah except I'm not pushing for a 24 hour speed lynch.

Sure you're not. The minute anyone says "Woah, hold on let me consider my options..." you assault them with colorful gems like: "Shit or get off the pot, assclown".

Also, didn't post a "wall of null". That's your unshared reality that you're hoping to make true by repeating it over and over.

You know, oddly, everyone can go see the wall, and my analysis of it. I do believe they are quite capable of forming opinions themselves.

Your lies are short lived. All anyone needs to do is read.

[GreyICE]

Yeah, lemme offer you a little hint. Experienced players aren't gonna be strongarmed by town. Especially not ones who think they're good (yes, he's delusional. Am aware)

Khan is scum because of behavior, and deserves his inevitable lynch. That being said, he's counting on his clownish behavior covering for his buddy at this point, with the idea that if I get distracted he'll be able to wiggle out of the wagon through being a better player.

It's not going to work. Mnemonic is scum, and Khan is just revving a chainsaw.

[GreyICE]

No, Captain Fuckwit, the stupidest happens every time you post. I could raise the average IQ of the thread 10 points by lynching you.

If you're not going to take part in anything of interest this game, sit down and shut up. You're barely playing at all at this point, so at least spare the rest of us your inane babble.

[GreyICE]

Why did I ignore an argument that isn't based on anything?
Because it's not based on anything.
And I don't even recall any sort of argument, but maybe I missed the arguing part.

that's an unnatural response to slander

the argument was pretty one-sided because you didn't participate

And secondly, what I was expecting was why others think you are scum, since you did manage to go to L-1. To me, it seems like you should/would/could analyze your wagon to see where it comes from, and try to find scum on it.
So far, you've avoided doing anything remotely like that.
Why is that?

I don't like to hunt on my wagon

I do read you and device as scum though

YO BOB

YOU WANNA FOLLOW THAT DEVICE SUSPICION WITH A VOTE?

BECAUSE YOUR PV READ IS CRAP

[GreyICE]

HI GREY

NO I WANT TO SORT THIS OUT FIRST

I RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE

Your entire point is that "PV isn't playing to X meta."

That's not a point and it's not refutable. It's like saying "Saturn is transiting the belt of Orion, and every time that happens, you're scum."

How about you vote actual scum for good reasons

[GreyICE]

Give me one reason that I should read back on this thread and make genuine reads.

Keep up like this and I'll give you 8 of them tomorrow.

[GreyICE]

No, Captain Fuckwit, the stupidest happens every time you post. I could raise the average IQ of the thread 10 points by lynching you.

If you're not going to take part in anything of interest this game, sit down and shut up. You're barely playing at all at this point, so at least spare the rest of us your inane babble.

Feel free to cut it out with the ad hom whenever you're ready.

No no, Iago, that's not Ad hom. See, an ad hominem is where you say "because Kublai Khan is a complete idiot, his post is meaningless and all the points are invalid." See, I'm not interested in refuting his points. He refuted them himself when he pointed out his entire argument is WIFOM (maybe mnemonic is the scum roleblocker. Or Khan is the Serial Killer and thus has no idea who scum is, he just doesn't want to be night killed. Or maybe he thinks it would be scummier to join me on the wagon after voting me all day and is trying to 'be consistent').

I'm just tired of him scumplaining about a wagon

on someone he thinks is scummy and worthy of voting.

If what he's going to do is come in here and complain about a wagon on someone

he has a scumread on

then he should not be posting. Period. It's obnoxious, shitty, terrible, awful play from a player who has pursued a personal vendetta against me outside of this game and is now angry that I don't particularly like him.

[GreyICE]

Okay.

Let me see if I can parse this.

Your initial argument was that PV was scummy because he was posting
Your new argument is that PV is scummy because he wasn't sufficiently angry about how incredibly ridiculous your initial argument was

I am... not sold.

[GreyICE]

oh right I also have something substantial to back up my vote

pv ignored the "engaging pv is scum pv"-comments which were made during his first burst of activity. I'd expect pv, having changed his town meta for the better, to say something like "I've changed guys" when the fact that he's active is brought up against him

especially since he's a pretty conversational player

What would you call this, bob?

[GreyICE]

Okay, you've lost me. From the fact no one besides you seems to care about this, you've probably lost the rest of the town too.

Is there a point here that can be communicated clearly and without referencing meta?

[GreyICE]

Why would he address the meta talk? Especially if it's just random noise that's not supported by votes?

[GreyICE]

@grey: I just can't see where you get this scumread on KK. He proves valid points, is helpful, genuine, and he was right when he said that it would be easier for scum to hop onto the wagon.

Honestly? He's not my strongest scum read (dats the guy my vote's on). Also honestly? He's a horrible human being, and if I had realized he was in the game I probably wouldn't have joined. And yes, he is a scumread.

He's previously attacked me outside of game, and then decided in this game to play 'condescending high road prick'. He has contributed LITERALLY NOTHING to this game. Here is the list of what is worth his attention:

• Anonymous Hydras
  
• The meme 'going full retard, never go full retard'
  
• Me playing off his name
  
• Incivility from other people
  
• Posts he deems fluff (that he never follows up on, but man he likes to note it)
  
• Calling yourself town
  
• Defending himself from any suspicion

Here is a list of things he's not interested in doing:

• Pushing wagons on people he claims to have scumreads on
  
• Discussing things with people to try and determine their alignment

I think he's doing the very common scum tactic where he takes a little bit of genuine emotion (annoyance over anonymous hydras, or my insults) and blows it up into some huge conflagration, so he can sit behind "look, I have tons of genuine emotion!"

So is the emotion genuine? Sure, it's genuine. But if he was town, he'd have WORKED PAST IT to try and win. As scum he's hiding behind it, because he can.

Go look over the valid points. Then start ticking the ones that are playstyle. Natirasha always self-voting. Posts he deems fluff. Etc. Go count the number of valid points when you've removed all playstyle critiques (and trust me, any player can critique a playstyle, town or scum). Go look over when he was helpful, and see how much of that help actually helped the town, and how much of it just helped people play more like what he'd like them to play like.

I think you'll find the list of actual helpful and insightful points starts dropping like a stone.

[GreyICE]

It works because of a simple rule of thumb that you can always count on:

Every scum replacement ISOs their predecessor.

Period. You have to! You have to know what they claimed. You want to know what level of hot water you're in (or if they left you pretty good). You want to know what they did. You can't replace into a scum slot without needing to ISO your predecessor. Good scum play? It's the very basics.

The first thing you commented on was the thing that was foremost on your mind. Human instinct. The biggest thing that stuck out to you this game was your predecessor's play, because it's the thing you care the most about.

It's not grasping. It's not flailing about. It's simple, human psychology. We tend to talk about what we are thinking about. And you were thinking about Guzame

[GreyICE]

Are there any statistics as to weather replacing out is more often scum or town?

For newbies? Scum. By a rather large margin

[GreyICE]

There's stats from newbie games in the Mafia Discussion forum. It's on the order of a newbie who replaces out is 50% more likely to be scum.

Also Khan has had the moderator pass on that he would like me to limit my behavior to the extremely civil discourse that is his trademark.

Could the asinine "anonymous hydra" reveal their members

BTW - Don't reply for them notscience. Unless you're scum. If you're scum then by all means debate me on this topic and threadshit on the game

2) If an alt walks in and says "Hey, I'm alt of someone so famous that they need an alt!" then yes, it creates a false flag. Mafia is a game of honed gut instincts and strategic pattern detecting. If you're flaunting your dishonesty about your identity then you fuck with gut reads. And if you're doing this as town, then you should be banned from playing.
3) None of that has anything to do with

this current game

. So I don't give a flying fuck. Quit making

this game

harder by bringing all sorts of nonsense garbage into it. hence my request that you drop the dumb dumb dumb charade.

Ugh. Oh, it's you. Hidden in a hydra. You're one of the ones I've given up trying to convince that his "signature move" is just idiotic nonsense.

notscience gets an F for reading comprehension on that last bit.

Take someone like jbomber732. Is he a clueless town idiot or is he good at faking it.

Ugh. What is this? This is the stupidest..

I foresee a game of jolly civility ahead of us folks!

No seriously folks, read these quotes and tell me how much of his "outrage" over me insulting him is real and how much is faked. This strike you like someone who gets worked up over a few insults?

[GreyICE]

Ah yes, here is the exact thread: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p5723529

[*]Town newbies: 37% (450 newbies)
[*]Scum newbies: 52% (124 newbies)

Jumps from 37% to 52%, which is extremely significant, based entirely on alignment. While newbies have an enormous replacement rate across the board, more than half of all scum newbies will replace out. It's not alignment proof... but yeah, if you see a newer player flake, take a GOOD look at that slot.

[GreyICE]

So...which of the people at the end of this wagon are the most scummy?

^ Seems really sure that mnemonicdevice will flip town...

Not at all, regardless of the flip, the end of the wagon was suspicious.

Am in agreement. Some of those votes were bussing.

MafiaSSK is who people should be looking at though. MafiaSSK's ISO is a wasteland - literally

[GreyICE]

Nah, could be a Serial Killer claim.

That actually wouldn't surprise me, based on the way his wagon ended and how Khan chose to back off due to "how I'm pushing the wagon" while doing nothing to actually impede the wagon.

[GreyICE]

"Let Grey take fall while not actually defending non-Mafia player. Use flip to redouble push day 2"

Yeah, I could see Khan do that.

[GreyICE]

No Khan, "I think player X is scum, but I will avoid a perfectly viable wagon because... um... GreyICE isn't known for bussing or some shit" is pretty bad.

There we go. I bus. Now you can leave me alive and push me based on that tomorrow ^_^

[GreyICE]

But no seriously, if I'm shot, MafiaSSK, Kublai Khan, Bicephelous Bob, these are three players who need to be dead.

[GreyICE]

Why not Metal Sonic or Katarina LeBlanc? Their ISOs are equally as bad as MafiaSSKs...

Metal Sonic is probably town.

Katarina's a troll and I'm fine with lynching her.

[GreyICE]

Not to mention, sucking this much is well within SSK's meta.

Also, we're not lynching Khan tomorrow and possibly ever.

Iago

You can believe as you wish. I'm well aware of the fact you're anti-town (and probably have a good guess of who is in that hydra). You're not half as good as you think you are.

The rest of the town has better sense.

[GreyICE]

Although I admit a hydra of Faraday and Mastin is a hilarious concept.

[GreyICE]

Honestly I'd feel a bit better about your hydra if Mastin wasn't lurkaderping, someone should look into that at some point.

That being said, her engagement in games is way down, so it's not as much of a scum tell as it used to be. And you're just pissed at me because you think I'm bad at this.

[GreyICE]

Okay, well tell Mastin to post more, 'kay?

[GreyICE]

Why not Metal Sonic or Katarina LeBlanc? Their ISOs are equally as bad as MafiaSSKs...

Just saying our ISO is hilariously bad. At least SSK has a meta excuse.

And I'm pretty sure mastin's not in that hydra, GreyICE.

You're town. Have a cookie.

SSK isn't.

[GreyICE]

Also meta is for scum and others who want to lynch town.

Ignore it and you will go far. Worship it and you are doomed to mediocrity.