NY 172: Another Large Normal (GAME OVER)

[DeasVail]

Hey!

[DeasVail]

I am talah! Are you town?

[DeasVail]

Vote: Doc Holliday

[DeasVail]

Mister Rogers, Talah and Doc all getting ~into it~ right out of the gate is lovely. Whether they are super-cool town or over-enthusiastic scum remains to be seen, however.

Doc Holliday, I have to say that your 'out of RVS' post was rather disappointing, and unfortunately I am inclined to believe that it was in reaction to my vote. Considering that there wasn't any in-game evidence to be had, I think it would have been more beneficial to wait if talah actually continued doing this later, before making an early accusation. It would have been appropriate as merely a pressure vote, but the post where you leave your vote on talah despite your dislike for the guy that claimed scum indicates that it's actually something serious. Talah may still be scum, I don't know, but I don't see how he/she/puppy would would be more likely to do that as scum than as town.

I can also confirm that talah was not burned by me whatsoever. Rogers, what was it that gave you that impression? Also, why are you so interested in the game? What do you hope to gain from having the link to it?

ThAdmiral, is there any point to your vote on bjc other than to look town?

I think that he (Deas) tends to get over-explanatory as scum, dotting i's and crossing t's where town probably wouldn't.

I think you are completely right about this.

[DeasVail]

Zdenek! I feel that our reads are similar (I can't say I'm feeling Damon-scum yet though), but you're scumreading me and that's not very good, so I'll kindly ask you to stop.

Also, Mister Rogers, I can't think of any reason for you to have ignored my question about why you were so interested in getting the link to the game with talah and I, so please answer it.

Doc, 62 is not anything like what you said at the time.

[DeasVail]

I'd like to hear more from DV on what he thinks of talah's opening post. DV, do you think it's scum indicative?

No.

[DeasVail]

So this proposal just seems like a way to squash free conversation and possibly give yourself a reason to complain about excessive activity if you decide to lurk.

Why do you think this could potentially happen?

Yeahno. You're not a player who can read me,

What makes you say this about talah?

Current scumreads in no particular order:

Doc Holliday
Aptil
ThAdmiral

There might be 1 or 2 more, I don't know.

[DeasVail]

Sorry, I planned to post tonight, but I'll have to postpone it for a day.

[DeasVail]

I'm back!

Talah, I was asking why you thought it possible that mastin's attempt to squash activity would succeed.

Regarding Mastin, I was more concerned about her than I was about you, but I think that her making a huge deal about how she only voted for you and didn't call you scum is kind of silly and also happens to be rather townish!

116 is townish from Rach imo.

I like Bipolar too.

I feel like aptil missed the most important part of talah's 87?

Snow, regarding 122, I wouldn't say Damon's really a townread for me, but I don't agree with the scumread because it's not like Damon's trying to pretend that he thinks bjc is scum. Maybe I'll be proven wrong as I read through, but I'm more interested in looking at what he does next.

Still not feeling Damon-scum, actually leaning town. (Will be explained later).

I like Projectmatt's reads.

Ok, Bipolar-town feelings are fading away fast.

Zdenek, I feel really conflicted about Bipolar's reaction to your fakevig. I completely agreed with your scumread, but considering that the dayvig gambit has become so common that it's often used as a joke, I don't know if I trust his reaction. What are your thoughts?

Projectmatt, why are you upset about Bipolar being most likely town?

Yates is so town. <3

~~

I am only at the end of page 10 (I may or may not have only skimmed Rogers' post though, so I'll actually do that later) and I don't have the time for read explanations, but I'm fairly happy with them and they'll be sure to come later. I apologise for not being as on top of things as I had hoped to be (stuff has come up the last couple of days), but I do anticipate being able to be more involved soon.

Reads within each category are not in order of strength.

Some form of townread:

Mister Rogers
talah
bjc
Yates
PeregrineV
mastin2
SnowStorm
Damon_Gant
RachMarie
Zdenek

Pending or Null or I can't really be bothered:

Smudger
Luca Blight
BipolarChemist
Nero Cain
Projectmatt
4nxi3ty

Scum:

Doc Holliday
Aptil
ThAdmiral

Reads obviously may change once I finish reading up and actually ISO people. Sorry again for not being completely caught up.

[DeasVail]

271 is odd because I wouldn't expect 'gut-feels' to have the impact that they did on ThAd's reads.

And Mister's on top of it.

324 is trying to sound confident while also not at the same time. Weird....

358 is potentially townish (will cover in my explanation of the ThAd read)

Just being transparent here, but this reason for thinking I'm town and the dislike of me being OMGUSy are both not great.
Me as scum (under the alt Schillinger) attacking Reck precisely because I *knew* he wouldn't be lynched
viewtopic.php?p=5345108#p5345108
(the Curren$y youtube at the top of that page is frockin' AWESOME just by the by)
Me as town and my theory on OMGUS
viewtopic.php?p=5348546#p5348546

Talah, convince me that there was any point to posting this other than to make yourself look more town.

Explanation of some reads coming tonight!!!

[DeasVail]

Talah Townread

I will note that this isn't a super-strong read, as I do not doubt that talah has the ability to fool me as scum. I also am not getting the 'I <3 talah so much' feels that I got from him last time we played together (I was scum though, so this may not be a valid influence on my read!). I would lean towards a townread right now because of a number of things I like.

-I think the analysis of my tendencies as scum was spot on. Not using it against me when it would have been possible to later on was also very logically sound and townish.
-The whole multifaction theory and how he went about revealing it was weird and wonderful and kind of town.
-His approach to AP, particularly the parts about how he joined the game and his ability to read Mastin.

~~

Bjc townread

I believe there is more credit to the townreads based on his first post than some people think. Actually consider it.

Scum generally want to avoid attention. This already makes his post quite undesirable for scum, and I think that someone fairly new (as bjc seems to be) would be especially hesitant to do something so potentially controversial. The other scum option is to attract attention, and use it to create early townreads on oneself (e.g. by claiming scum and then making it clear it was a reaction test and 'scumhunting' from it). However, the posts that follow his 'scumclaim' seem to suggest that he isn't trying to look good, but at the same time, the fact that he actually scumhunts from it leads me to conclude that he's genuinely scumhunting while not being showy about it as I feel scum would be.

~~

Yates Townread

10. This is the big one. I'm really confused as to why everyone is handing out Town reads for an obvious fake kill? I mean... look at this:

Spoiler:

Kill: BipolarChemist

Fuck this noise.

...

Man, you don't really get that I'm being sarcastic do you?

Well it doesn't matter cause you're dead and I won't have to worry about it any more.

Fair enough. At least I'm just VT, yo. I assume I can post until I'm actually dead? At least that's what I got from the rules.

Whelp

Unvote

Vote: Gant

^Ye sorry bro. Antagonizing you was fun, didn't really expect a vig

Well at least we know you're town.

Or do you?! MUAHAHA. No ya I'm town.

This all happened in the span of like 15 minutes. This actually looks

organic

to some of you???
Matt?

Unvote

Aww man, BipolarChemist is most likely town

ThAd

??

Ok I take back everything I said about zdenek. The fake-vig was golden. bipolar is now basically conf-town, that reaction doesn't look fake at all.

Gant??

Also, I like the fake vig - a lot.

What's weird is that I haven't been reading Zdenek as scum, yet I can't shake the feeling that the fake vig shot interaction looks super contrived. That bjc chainsaw defense is also standing out in a vacuum.

Going against what seems to be an already established opinion, while making a point that I actually agree with? If he was a girl and I was a girl, I'd probably say something like 'You go gurl!' Hey, I'll say it anyway. YOU GO GURL!
Wacky theories like this being some huge set-up (I actually see Bipolar being scum more likely than Zdenek being scum at this stage) are also pretty town in my opinion!

~~

PeregrineV townread

I find him quite vapid as scum, so it's the force and personality behind is play here that's making me like him.

~~

Damon_Gant townread

That's not scum logic - that's bad logic. Unlike others in this thread, you will not hear me chuck around certainties like "you're scum" - certainly not at this early point of the game. My scumhunting is merely analysing the probability that I feel each person is scum. That anti-town joke upped bjc's percentage chance immediately in my eyes, and the others still have some catching up to do. As long as bjc's percentage is the highest, my vote will remain there - but I am by no means close to certain of course, because certainty at this phase of the game would be idiocy of the highest order.

DG staying strong and sticking to his guns, even if it means he has to say how different he is from everyone else! There is no attempt to fit in here. He is an individual and reveling in it! Also note his lack of rush to provide reads.

~~

Aptil scumread

Talah's point about aptil claiming that bjc was lynchbait is a good one. The fact that aptil doesn't even provide a response to this makes it look even worse. You'd think that if you believe someone is lynchbait, you'd take the opportunity to actually.. well... stop them from being lynchbait, especially when someone asks you why you townread them! I think he's just scum.

~~

ThAdmiral scumread

24 is very odd to me. It feels more like scum trying to come up with the most 'town' reaction to the reaction test than anything else. Look how cool I am, voting for bjc even though I

know

it's a reaction test! Um no that's not how it works.
Why couldn't he just vote for bjc without making a big deal out of the reaction test thing? It looks like scum trying to cover themselves!

His opinion on bjc in 103 is very 'fencesitty'. It feels less like an opinion and more like pressure dodging.

I find his scumhunting lacklustre and disappointing. Examples include the bjc scumread in 143 and his questions in 91.

I think the rapid turnaround on Zdenek despite scumreading him previously doesn't make much sense, especially considering how he admits he's 'a sucker for a fake vig gambit' and only brings forth 'gut-feels' as the reason for the rapid turnaround.

I'm less convinced about what I saw as townish before, so the scumread stays.

~~

Despite having more to say about ThAdmiral than Aptil, I don't actually feel that confident in ThAdmiral being scum right now (I suspect that I may be conf. biasing so I'll have a re-look later), so:

Unvote: Pisskop
Vote: Aptil

Pisskop still hasn't given us anything that I consider very town, so he could still potentially be among my scumreads. 4nxi3ty may have moved there as well, but I will investigate this more later.

If there's a read I haven't given an explanation for, feel free to request it.

[DeasVail]

@DV: There is scum motivation to go against the grain on ZD-Chem.

You also have provided 7 reads in a 20 player game. You could just go through and fill in the remaining 12; especially Mastin.

There really isn't. Since everyone that had expressed an opinion beforehand said they were town, there wasn't really any reason for Yates as scum to think that he had a big chance at making Bipolar a potential mislynch, and 'you're scum freaking out about people being townread too easily!' seems to be a common enough accusation that I believe scum would predict. So, I just don't think it would have been worth it for Yates as scum to take such a strong stance. The fact that I'm one of few thinking this reinforces my point.

As for my reads, I did provide a full list earlier, but if you want me to elaborate on others, I'm probably only likely to actually do it if I believe you're genuinely interested in my opinion. This post makes me think that you're just asking me to do it for the sake of it?

Dels, your most recent post is like a wind of joy. I'm glad you're town.
And no, I'm not fooling you, or anyone. I'm just town.

Let's face it. I'm probably going to be paranoid of you as long as the two of us are alive, but every so often as I'm reading through the game there's a moment where I believe you're town without a trace of paranoia, and it's wonderful.

Talk to me about Mister Rogers and Zdenek. I need to get out of tunnel mode while waiting for Pere to get in here.

I'm just going to give my general impressions and not hone in on specific posts, but if you'd be interested in that then I'm happy to do that too.

I get the vibe that Mister Rogers is more keen on the whole scumhunting thing then would be necessary for scum to look town (a lot of it also looks rather genuine). He also comes across as having an idea of how things should be done, and wanting everyone else to do things his way, which is something I'd associate a lot more with scum than with town. I think he still could be scum, but it's not something I really want to concern myself with right now.

As for Zdenek, I generally found his scumhunting genuine and pro-active. I particularly liked his attack on Bipolar and while I personally find the concept of fake dayvigs silly now that they're used all the time, I think that the way he went about it was fairly town if Bipolar is town (scum aren't really looking to hand out free townreads, and there wasn't really any way for Zdenek to scumread Bipolar from that). It's possible it could be some big set-up like you suspect, but I think it's a lot of effort for scum to go to and considering that I don't have a huge problem with Zdenek otherwise I'm not too concerned.

Can you explain what felt different about Talah before and why you think he could fool you as scum?

I felt that talah was less conventional in our last game. Here he seems to be more 'normal', if that makes any sense. I do think this could be explained by just having been on the site longer, but I'm not sure. I think he could fool me as scum because he's a very good player from what I've seen, so I naturally assume he's good as scum as well!

Are you my alt?

~~

I'm not caught up (I have read more than what I've responded to though), but I think I'll have to save the full catch-up and read updating for tomorrow. I definitely should be more involved over the weekend.

[DeasVail]

Ok, I'm pretty much caught up. I may not have read absolutely everything, but just pretend I have and we'll be good.

I've also realised that I just don't have the time right now to keep on top of constantly updating my reads on every player, so I'm going to mostly be focusing on scumreads for the time being.

My shortlist for lynching is.....

4nxi3ty (mostly for 213 as it completely ignores that he's actually proving himself that town do indeed have doubt)
Pisskop
Aptil

I could possibly be convinced on others, but you'll have to sell me.

Vote: Pisskop

[DeasVail]

talah, do you get an almost Wake-from-Gundam-ish vibe from Mister Rogers? I think he's town.

[DeasVail]

DeasVail, would you mind giving your perspective of DG and Talah?

I think they're both town.

[DeasVail]

I feel better about my townreads than my scumreads fwiw.

[DeasVail]

p-edit: Why anyone is pushing MR is outside my ability to understand. His intentions are so transparent. Another reason Talah is scum. MR comes around to scumreading him, and voila, MR is a magical lynch option.

This is a pretty bad reason to be scumreading talah. The only reason for him to be scumreading MR is because he as scum would want to look town from it. No way someone like talah as scum actually thinks he has a chance of lynching MR.

Talah, I guess I disagree. Mister Rogers just seems

really

into the game and wanting everything done his way to an extent that I can't see scum mimicking. I will also say that I doubt your push on Mister Rogers (nor your self-vote) is going to lead anywhere today and you most likely won't be getting my support, but feel free to prove me wrong, as I acknowledge that I could be wrong about MR.

[DeasVail]

I guess I think the reasons why he frustrates you so much come from him being town rather than scum.

[DeasVail]

Nice thread research but what exactly do you mean? Is he somehow asserting that town shouldn't have doubt?

Uh yes?

Talah, regardless of your alignment, don't let this game affect you too much. Esp. if your town, players will be players and do silly things and be frustrating etc. and if you're scum then I understand even moreso.

@DV: What do you think about the Gundam Seed meta post I found? Why is there such a stark difference between town Talah there and Talah's play here?

I think it's a good post.

And I don't know! But what I do know is that you could find many previous town posts of mine and make a case for how they are oh so different from my play this game.

By the way Snork, talah is not the only one being frustrating here. I mean, your response to me in 976 is all over the place with a whole bunch of points that contradict each other. Do I think you're scum for it? No.

@DV: Also, you played in that game with him. How come you didn't notice the difference in his play?

Is this a question, or is it just the beginnings of an accusation that you're cleverly but not really disgusing?

@Talah: Are you and DV scum buddies?

Hahaha, to be completely honest, I'm almost at the point where I've stopped caring about talah's alignment. It's us against the world talah! Yeeeaaaahhh.

SnowStorm, I know, right? I mean I'm reading it all and it's just ehhhhh.

It's not worth reading, trust me. None of it.

Um what? Isn't it the nail in the coffin of scum-talah? That would be pretty worth reading if you ask me!

Snork, why is AP town?

Btw, I can feel the scum trembling at the synergy here.

Oh yeah I'm trembling all right! Oh wait...

Note that this is a negative interaction in that Talah didn't do something. There is pretty strong motivation for him not to if he wanted you as an ally, don't you think?

I have other reasons to townread him.

[DeasVail]

Mister Rogers, if someone has a different opinion from your own, it doesn't necessarily mean that they're blinded by emotion, just dumb, or scum.

PEdit: Yes, I'm noticing a tonal change as well! Well done!

[DeasVail]

Are you referencing something specific here or just throwing out general tips?

Did you answer my question that you have dodged once (twice?) already?

I am referencing your previous post.

I didn't and don't intend to (basically it's a question to which there is no reasonable answer and I think discussing it would be wasting everyone's time).

[DeasVail]

Are you referencing something specific here or just throwing out general tips?

Did you answer my question that you have dodged once (twice?) already?

I am referencing your previous post.

I didn't and don't intend to (basically it's a question to which there is no reasonable answer and I think discussing it would be wasting everyone's time).

No reasonable answer.

He is contradicting his town meta in this game and all you have to say is that "there is plenty of variance in people's town games and so its not a significant tell".

So its perfectly OK that he hasn't scum hunted this game and normally he's a scum hunting bunny? <=== Could you please answer that question?

So the only reasonable answer is to swoon from your hot hot scumhunting and pledge my fealty to you for the remainder of the game? Ok.

[DeasVail]

Did I say that? Its and actual, real live question. Please answer it.

I don't know how many times I have to say I'm not going to before you get the hint.

I can also confirm that talah was not burned by me whatsoever. Rogers, what was it that gave you that impression? Also, why are you so interested in the game? What do you hope to gain from having the link to it?

As I mentioned, it does provide a meta sample of Talah's town game for a reference, right?

Yes, it does.

[DeasVail]

Are you trying to scumread me?

[DeasVail]

So far once for each of two questions. But don't worry, I won't ask you the same question twice.

@DV: Don't you find it odd that you are doing more scum hunting than Talah and that you defend better against the meta case than he does? <=== How about this?

Oh well I don't really care for that one either.

Me defending better than he does probably is more an indicator of town-Talah than scum-Talah and since I also tend to have much poorer scumhunting when I'm being hounded, I don't find it incredibly odd, no.

PEdit: I think that saying that Talah is not scumhunting is an exaggeration.

[DeasVail]

Ok, but its clear he isn't scum hunting like his normal happy go lucky, vociferous self, wouldn't you say?

I think it's pretty understandable, as I can relate to a few of his feelings and I'm not even the one being attacked.

[DeasVail]

Meh. Anyway, I can tell you like Talah and you want him to be town and that's about it I guess.

Please do not disrespect my opinion.

[DeasVail]

No.

[DeasVail]

p-edit: Why anyone is pushing MR is outside my ability to understand. His intentions are so transparent. Another reason Talah is scum. MR comes around to scumreading him, and voila, MR is a magical lynch option.

This is a pretty bad reason to be scumreading talah. The only reason for him to be scumreading MR is because he as scum would want to look town from it. No way someone like talah as scum actually thinks he has a chance of lynching MR.

Uhhhhhh. So scum only ever scumread lynchable people? I hope you aren't serious.

No, but Snork's accusation relied on Mister Rogers being a 'lynch option'.

~~

I will have updated explanations for reads of importance up by around this time tomorrow.

[DeasVail]

Town Talah: Ya I'm really sorry. You're right there is a,b,c reasons and x,y,z extenuating circumstances. Here's what I've got so far: [blah, blah, blah]. Here's what I am thinking: [blah, blah, blah]. Let me go through some ISO's and post more data the best I can anyway.

I'd kind of expect this from scum.

and not slow down after several players have expressed frustration

Why is this being used as a point in favour of Mister Rogers being scum?

If I were scum would I play it as badly as this? Of course not,

See, I feel like this is an attempt at a defence where there really isn't one. One could also say that his lurking is anti-town, so he could just as easily ask the question, 'If I were town would I play it as badly as this?'
There also happens to be no remorse whatsoever for his town play, while I believe that if he really felt he was playing too badly to be scum, he would also think he was playing badly as scum.

Oh you guys are the best.

Nero, do you really think Mister Rogers and Talah are scum together? I feel like they would have both been fine if they hadn't insisted on attacking each other.

~~

Why I think we shouldn't lynch Talah:

-I think the analysis of my tendencies as scum was spot on. Not using it against me when it would have been possible to later on was also very logically sound and townish.
-The whole multifaction theory and how he went about revealing it was weird and wonderful and kind of town.
-His approach to AP, particularly the parts about how he joined the game and his ability to read Mastin.

These are what I was thinking from before. I would like to say on the first point that I don't think having someone known for being completely non-influential (me) as an ally is incredibly worth greatly reducing his future ability to scumread me.

I think his early attack on Mastin is genuine and good scumhunting (regardless of whether he's right or not), so I don't understand why people are making such a big deal about him not scumhunting.

I also have to say that I don't like accusations that Talah was voting for Luca because he couldn't fabricate anything on someone else. Even this game, talah has proven that he's capable of making up stuff as scum to a reasonable level of competence, so there is no reall

need

for talah as scum to attack Luca in the way that he did.

nyway I've got a long day ahead of me and I need a break, so I'll be back around my prod timer because you fucks obviously need time to work things out between yourselves anyway. Did I mention that I'm an excellent wagon for those of you that want to push a policy/information lynch? Probably.

I think this kind of stuff is wonderful town attitude.

739 is great.

I really don't get the scumreads on him. I can relate to his frustration with Rogers because sometimes this game I've felt like I just can not be bothered responding to him in a reasonable manner.

Yeah... I don't know. All in all I find the accusations against Talah pretty underwhelming and think he's pretty town!

I am prepared at this stage to try and get a save-Talah wagon going (whether I'm the only one calling the wagon this isn't of great importance to me!)

I would be unwilling to lynch the following:

Mister Rogers
talah (obviously)
Snork
Nero Cain
Yates
PeregrineV
Mastin2
Damon_Gant
Zdenek

When it comes to everyone else, I either would attack with you a hug if you suggested their lynch, be prepared to compromise on them, or would still not consider lynching them but have not put them in the list because I'm too lazy to have read them properly yet.

Honestly, since Luca seems vaguely scummy and is the biggest non-Talah wagon, I am happy putting my vote there. Basically he's not delivered his promised posting but is not aspiring to be better whatsoever where I think town here would want to try harder, especially considering his comment about being too bad to be scum.

Curb your inner puppy-murdering urges and vote Luca Blight today!

[DeasVail]

Unvote: Pisskop
Vote: Luca Blight

[DeasVail]

The fact Luca hasn't been replaced makes me think maybe he *IS* playing to his wincon...

I don't know about you, but I've never seen town replaced for not putting much effort in. What makes you think this is in anyway relevant to Luca's alignment?

No it wasn't? He omgus'd mastin, made a meta case on him based on his entry post (which he never elaborated on or backed up in anyway) and then decided he didn't care about mastin and wsa going to leave her to me to sort. So, no, no scumhunting happened there, just posturing and backpedaling out of what was looking like a 1v1. What about Talah's points on mastin were good by any stretch of the imagination? Given you have mastin in your not-lynch pile, this is particularly mindnumbing.

I mean 'good' as in town. I wouldn't actually know how accurate the case was. Also, deferring to you is something I feel is pretty sensible (esp. since he didn't really want mastin lynched day 1 anyway and is known to wagon around to improve reads). It has nothing to do with my read on mastin, but rather Talah's approach.

In response to your other comments:

-Your reaction to the policy vote thing shows concerning one-dimensional thought processes.
-You sit at the 'attack with hug' tier.

I have to say that while the disappearing townreads on me offer me great amusement, I actually think it's rather silly. Is it because I'm townreading someone you're scumreading? I'm kind of assuming it is because 'less than sensible' opinions is pretty underwhelming!! (and my not-lynching list was only one less than my previous town list with Rach and Snow no longer being in and Nero being the new addition so I'm not sure what the deal is there). It probably doesn't matter though as I've been thinking AP-scum for the last couple of days (I guess the secret's out!). I also am of the opinion that investigative PRs should be able to target whoever they like and believe that telling them who to target is pretty bad but whatever.

ThAd, while I would be happy with an aptil lynch, I don't want there to be trouble with that going through and have people compromising on talah because people are split between Luca and aptil. If lots of other people express an opinion like mine then I'd be willing to make the switch, but otherwise I'd prefer to stick with Luca. I mean, I'd actually feel wonderful about wagoning AP now, but if I tried to do that then I feel I'd just hurt talah's chances of surviving and not achieve anything else. Tomorrow I guess!

Also, how is Luca trolling?

[DeasVail]

I feel that once people have expressed frustration, scum would be more likely to avoid that, and could actually do so without being scummy since it would be quite reasonable for town to do so in their position as well.

[DeasVail]

This isn't an attempt to save myself

Really? If you know you're town and you don't know what talah is, wouldn't it be much better from your perspective for talah to be lynched?

Its because you haven't done anything that looks very town recently and some of your opinions (about Talah in particular) are eyebrow raising.

Must be very town all the time. Ok, got it.

Oh btw guys Im scumreading AP for reasons that I don't care to share except that he said he wanted me investigated. Right.

Well the reason you provided has nothing to do with my read on you, but other than that you're spot on!

[DeasVail]

Snork, in my experience, judging wagons by how 'town' the wagoners are is a very flawed way of judging the alignment of the wagonee.

I also don't want Snork to think that I'm dumb - just a simple Zdenek trying to do his best.

But do you want me to be absolutely crushed and miserable for the rest of the game? Vote for Luca.

Talah, don't let yourself be lynched.

~~

Luca is not a lurker lynch, he is an actual proper lynch, and I think he's scum. I ask everyone who's willing to consider it to vote for Luca and not Talah. I can't be completely confident of my opinion here, but I

am

town and feel that it should be fairly clear that I am from my posts here, so know at the very least that my reads are coming from a genuine place.

[DeasVail]

tl;dr

VOTE FOR LUCA BLIGHT

[DeasVail]

Penguin, I would be quite up for an AP lynch tomorrow (maybe even aptil, but the idea of roast pidgeon just feels so juicy, ya know?) but now I'd really like to go with Luca. If there is a reason why you think he's town, I'd like to hear it, but I'm becoming increasingly pessimistic about talah's chances of surviving as it is and I thought Luca was fairly scummy out of his exchange with talah.

[DeasVail]

Deas, how can you be so sure Talah is Town? You two buddying up seems to have been a theme throughout this game.

In what way was I 'fairly scummy' in my exchange with Talah?

This is the main part.

You think that town have to believe one or the other of us, which says that you think town need to believe one of us is most assuredly scum.

I think that you're scum, however there is no way that I would expect town to know either of our alignments, only scum.

How is that the same opinion?

We both seem to agree one of us needs to be lynched tonight, right? I don't know where you're getting this idea that town must know either of our alignments from, at the end of the day it boils down to which one they believe more, that's not to say either of us are necessarily lying.

[DeasVail]

Talah has had more meaningful interactions with other people . Analysing his wagon would be more useful than Luca on day2 . We have a good deal of information to go by from there on .

No, I'm not going to let talah be lynched with this as a reason.

As for Luca, I did actually like talah's point in the post I previously quoted regarding the thing about believing one of them over the other. That makes it sound very much like it's a scum v town situation (e.g. 3P LYLO) and isn't what I imagine someone would say who was unsure of talah's alignment (as Luca claimed to be).

I have been generally busy of late, though I don't expect you to believe that so it's a pointless question. I never said my lack of activity was a town tell, I merely commented that the manner in which I was posting was such that if I was another player, I wouldn't expect someone who plays in such a way on day 1 to flip scum. Obviously this is a moot point, WIFOM etc.

Also, this really bothers me. Wasn't he saying that it was a towntell? If it's not a towntell, is he scum? I think town here would just say it was a towntell and not try to say they weren't claiming that.

[DeasVail]

No Talah. You will be mourned.

Also I have to say I'm relieved that I wasn't wrong about you. That would have killed me.

AP, I am also reconsidering my read on Damon, but I'm thinking of voting for you, so this is kind of awkward!

Nero, give me a short thing on why I should vote for PA.

I'll work on sorting my reads tomorrow.

[DeasVail]

Ugh. sorry. Tomorrow.

Really sorry/

[DeasVail]

I'm a bit run-down at the moment, and my days have been longer and more tiring this week, so I'll be catching up on the thread and posting thoughts, but I won't be re-ISOing people as I'd like to do before pushing scumreads. This will happen in full force most likely on the weekend/the beginning of next week which I have off.

I don't see what is awkward about that
Nero has been talking about Rogers all of Yesterday, did you not care then?
This post just -feels- fake to me

It just is, ok?
Not really. I care now though.
Cool.

Snork, my reads on talah and Luca only grew stronger as the day progressed. Talah started off as only a moderate townread who I ended up deciding I didn't want lynched at all, while Luca went from someone I didn't have a read on, to a great alternative to talah that I actually thought was scum.

1777 is pretty bad. How does one 'blow' a predecessor's towncred. Don't your reasons for thinking Mister Rogers strongly town still apply? Or does PA's lack of posting make the slot scummy?

Really? a well that sucks tell?

It did actually suck.

AP, why not actually wait and see whether I end up voting for PA before telling me that's what you think I'll do? Also, doesn't the fact that I've expressed lots of interest in voting for you mean I don't need anyone else to vote for? Unless I don't want to vote for you because we're scumbuddies! I have the answer!!!!

Bipolar slot is pretty town imo.

First impression is that Rach could be scum. Will need to think about it more later though.

Snork, why do you not consider that AP could be scum?

Sorry, I have to end at page 76. I can't read things properly anymore tonight. Again, I'll try to become completely caught up over the next couple of the days, but within a week I should definitely be completely involved again.

[DeasVail]

Prod dodge.

[DeasVail]

Once again, apologies for the delay, but this is happening now, right now, and there's nothing that can stop me.

Firstly, catching up on the thread:

Snork, I will say that Rach saying things irrelevant to the game is not alignment-indicative. I want to ISO her to clarify my read on her (I think I could go either way at this point), but I do encourage you to consider alignment over how productive her play is.

4nx, why are you not considering talah's townread of me, considering that he was the one that mentioned crossed t's and dotted i's being a scumtell of mine in the first place?

I also (surprisingly!) agree with AP who first brought this up.

So this is awkward but me agreeing with you about Damon is not? Ok then!

sorta waiting for mastin's response and dv to start playing again.

Today is the day!

@Damon (and anyone else I guess): Why does SnowStorm as scum stop voting for talah (who is a pretty ideal lynch for scum as he's actually a good player) and change it to ThAdmiral?

~~

Ok, completely caught up, now onto reads:

I want to exclude the following players from a lynch today:

Penguin
Snork
Egg (As I think someone else mentioned, I believe Bipolar would have been super into the game after pulling off the daykill thing successfully, whereas his subsequent posting and replace-out matches up more imo with town struggling to keep up with the game. Egg has been good so far too).
Nero Cain
Aptil
Yates
PeregrineV
RachMarie (Nero's defense has sold me)
ThAdmiral

Projectmatt
Mastin2

The last two here are probably a tier below the others, but I actually thought Matt's last post was much more town than scum (contrary to popular opinion) and I think mastin's read of me is quite genuine (I feel he could easily just scumread me if he were scum) and I have no problem with the rest of his posts.

That leaves me:

TheWayItEnds
AngryPidgeon
SnowStorm
Damon_Gant
4nxi3ty

I think I have slight townreads on the last three, and AP > TheWay at the moment, so:

Vote: AngryPidgeon

Explanation coming today.

Also, there are a couple of my 'do not lynch' reads that I think could be potential scumreads, but I want to wait before lynching them.

[DeasVail]

I don't like TWIE's latest post...

But anyway, onto AngryPidgeon:

-I think his suspicion of Talah is forced, highlighted by his use of OMGUS as a reason why talah was scummy.
-I feel that his interaction with me in 440 is quite telling. Obviously he agreed with me about a few things and also had a townread on me at the time. The problem then, is how he reacts to me later in the day when I more forcefully townread talah. The leap from at least having some respect for me as a player in 440 to assuming that I'm 'less than sensible' when it comes to talah and less likely town too is one that I don't think would be made to that extent as town (I'd expect the change here to be more gradual and less certain). So, either the comments in 440 were specifically tailored to improve my opinion of AP and not genuine (scum), or the unrelenting scumread on talah and complete dismissal of my opinion + subsequent suspicion was forced (scum).
Also, such unwillingness to reconsider his scumread on talah also is scummy when you consider how easily he reconsidered other reads such as the townread on me (showing that he is not particularly prone to confirmation bias).
-1409 seems to come right about the time that he's decided not to townread me anymore. How convenient! Never mind that what he's accusing me of is completely ridiculous (my townlist had one less player with the players taken off being completely reasonable choices if he actually cared to investigate) and hopping onto Luca was obviously the right move if I wanted to prevent a talah lynch, so I feel like it's scum trying to build up a scumread on me there. I don't think he ever addressed these problems when I brought them up either.
-The last bit of 1482 is trying too hard to discredit my opinion.

Nobody is allowed to read mastin except me. Not after anything goes. If matin is scum, I'll know by D2 at the latest. If I die tonight, consider that a mastin scum claim as well.

Talah insists that I be responsible for reading mastin because of SELFMETA from mastin stating that Im good at reading her.

lol

Using street racers as an example of why flashwagons are bad feels fake.

AP continuing to scumread me today despite disagreeing with him on talah being how it came about feels forced as well.

Again, the accusation he makes of me in 1797 shows that he's more concerned with explaining himself than scumhunting. He thinks that I'm asking for a case on PA so that I can sheep it, but the only way this can be validated is if I do actually sheep it, and AP mentioning it means that it can't be validated ever, so basically he doesn't care about working out my alignment.

I haven't gotten to the second page of his ISO yet (most of it's been covered though), but I probably will later.

[DeasVail]

DV do you have games with AP where he was scum and if so can you provide links? Because I am not so sure he is scum. I am town reading him.

The read is based entirely on his play this game. Why do you townread him?

[DeasVail]

cuz I'm not talah and have my own opinions of people. Tho I should be open to considering the reads of dead players, true.

You are using talah's view of my scum-meta though, so this doesn't quite cut it!

[DeasVail]

AP:

-Regarding the 'awkward' thing, I was referring to a post earlier this day where I said I was agreeing with you on Damont, but thought it was awkward because I was scumreading you. You then said that it wasn't awkward. Now, in a very similar situation with Nero, you've posted an 'awkward hug' gif. HMMMMM.
-I don't get why there's the need to discredit my posting so much. If you actually want to know why I read someone the way I do, all you need to do is ask. And while I am totally jelly that Nero got a gif and I didn't, that's not what I was saying.

Egg:

I was referring to Zdenek's fake daykill on bipolar, following which bipolar started racking up townreads. Also, by 'good' I mean town-looking.

AP:

-You're reading way too much into the 'decided' wording. I don't think it has to be scum that decide what their reads are?
-I think I was focusing on that point for Snow because it was used as a reason for him being scummy. That's what set him apart from the others that did the same thing.

DV: If some players have a naturally scummy tone, I feel like DV has a naturally town tone.

What are you basing this on?

~~

I don't know if it's just a temporary thing, but I'm feeling less confident of my reads tonight. I'm going to keep my vote on AP for now, but TWIE is someone I may change my vote to. I'll have a closer look at people tomorrow.

[DeasVail]

I am not sure that TWIE and AP can be scumbuddies and TWIE's recent posting along with rising concerns that I'm conf. biasing on AP has me wanting to go here.

Unvote: AngryPidgeon
Vote: TheWayItEnds

I am still unsure of AP and so would still be happy to discuss concerns about him, but I do feel more confident of a TWIE scumflip.

[DeasVail]

Snork, I haven't played a lot with AP, so my read on him is really uncertain. I'd still put him in the scumgroup but I think I'd prefer TWIE, and I've said most of what I wanted to say about AP.

Also, my reads are the same as they were in my last relevant post except with Yates, ThAd and SnowStorm (and possibly 4nxi3ty) forming a 'slight scum' group above the other scumreads (as in they are weaker scum than TWIE, AP, Gant)

I am not strongly townreading Snow by any means, but I found his reaction posts town enough to not be interested in lynching him today. One of the big recent things about TWIE for me is that I found the sarcasm of his posts over-the-top and likely scum trying to fabricate a town attitude rather than a natural town reaction. There were other things about TWIE that I may explain later on ISO too, but I'm not up to it right now.

[DeasVail]

but SRS question, how do you tell the difference between town attitude and scum faking a town attitude?

I don't think I can say anything other than gut here. I'll probably ISO TWIE tomorrow and see if I can explain things more logically, but for now I don't think I have anything really convincing to say.

[DeasVail]

Wow, thank god you are paranoid of me. Like I really could not understand why you were seemingly writing me off as town all game.

Why would it be so odd for mastin to read you as town if you are?

I liked Nero's reason for voting ThAd, but I'm still hesitant to lynch there.

Snork, I don't see 2080 as being that incredibly town.

I have a townread on PV.

Regarding the current wagons/suspicions, I'm not going to support lynches on Nero, PMatt or PA without some heavy swaying. SnowStorm I could compromise on, but he's certainly not a preferred lynch right now. I'd probably go with ThAd over Snow, but I wouldn't make a decision between those two without going over ISOs again first.
TWIE and AP are my favoured options right now. I don't know how to reconcile the fact that they're attacking each other, but I think they're each individually scummy, so one of them lynched would be real nice.

~~

With the TWIE slot, I'm going to focus on TWIE himself, as I had mixed feelings about pisskop and it's only since TWIE's appearance that my read there has solidified.

The first post that concerns me is 1977. I think it's really easy to see from Yates' post that he may not necessarily mean that every player second on a wagon is scum, but TWIE pretends that that is what Yates is saying (without even asking for clarification) and makes a huge deal out of it while discrediting Yates in the process. Also, in this post it's really unclear what TWIE actually thinks of Yates. The mocking tone of both the first line and 'GG town. Yates just broke this game wide open.' make it sound like he thinks Yates is town, but then there's the weird vote thing? I feel like the post as a whole shows that TWIE cares too much about the accusation in a way that is completely unrelated to his read of Yates. I believe this is scummy.

As I've alluded to before, a lot of the sarcasm in 2117 feels to me like what scum would fake rather than what town would naturally say. The line, 'looks like you got me,' is probably the most significant example.

So this is the way it must end for TheWayItEnds... With rope!

[DeasVail]

Pretty sure both JOATs are town.

[DeasVail]

Or wait, maybe not.

Hmmm... we'll see.

[DeasVail]

Can we please stop arguing about the JOATs? We're not lynching either of them today. Scum will probably kill whichever of them is town and sort it out for us.

[DeasVail]

Pretty sure both JOATs are town.

Can we please stop arguing about the JOATs? We're not lynching either of them today.

Scum will probably kill whichever of them is town and sort it out for us.

Agree. x2

I'm a bit sad about the strike-out. That was my favourite part of the post!

[DeasVail]

I AM growing increasingly wary of DV.....

Um, ok.

Pretty sure both JOATs are town. Move on guys.

tbh, I felt the mafia gods were punishing me 'cause your play really stunk and I HATED defending you. BUT I felt important. I think its very very very likely that scum are in that chorus of "yeah Rach is town" DV especially.

I'm pretty sure my reasoning is sound though. Your explanation of why Rach's thoughts made sense was good, and then the question arises of why she would use that reason for her read on Luca as scum. There'd be so many better reasons to use that it doesn't make any sense.

SiX I would not use your bodyguard ability anytime too soon.

Seriously, if you guys didn't understand how sarcasm works you should have said something a week and a half ago.

Post 1977 has 2 sections. Theres the sarcastic mocking section, and the actual content section. If you replaced everything in that post other than the first and last lines with "this reasoning is bad and you should feel bad for using it" that post would literally have the same meaning.

If you guys are going to read sarcastic posts literally then you might as well lynch me because we are not going to get along.

I like that your attack on post 2117 is about faking sarcasm.

*WARNING THIS IS SARCASM AND NOT TO BE TAKEN LITERALLY*
It's a good thing you've just demonstrated how great your grasp is on the use of sarcasm that you've graduated directly into determining alignment based upon it. I'm sure that will be wonderfully accurate.

My post was pretty obviously not taking your sarcasm literally so the fact that you're trying to make it sound like I was is pretty odd!

[DeasVail]

Pretty sure both JOATs are town. Move on guys.

This part's slightly outdated except for the 'move on' part obviously!

[DeasVail]

Speaking of the struck out. How can you say that you believe both claims yet say "scum will kill whichever is town" that makes it sound like you think Six might not be town.

I don't really want to discuss this now. I'd probably be willing to later though! Looking at my posts will perhaps give you the answers you need, perhaps not.

[DeasVail]

DV which of the three top wagons will you be willing to be on? We really need to consolidate here

The one that I'm currently on (TWIE).

[DeasVail]

I have a weaker townread on PMatt. I'll ISO him and see if I can find anything concrete.

[DeasVail]

Projectmatt Townread

2275 shows that he knows he's coasting, and knows that it's making him suspected. But he doesn't really change this. This shows that the coasting is irrelevant to alignment at the very least. You could also possibly argue that scum would be more motivated to make the time to look town, but this is possibly player-dependent.

2217 comes across as genuine. I feel that scum would actually make more effort to have proper scumreads, whereas I can definitely relate to the difficulty in forming scumreads as town.

I feel like scum could easily have a more reasonably short PoE list in 2002 than PMatt has done. This comes across as someone who is genuinely struggling to keep up with the game and form reads etc.

The above are the recent posts of PMatt's that I find town. The read is still relatively weak, but I wouldn't be happy lynching him.

Yeah. You did. Every part of you talking about 1977 was you taking sarcastic comments at face value.

That's different from thinking you're scum faking the sarcasm, which is what I was arguing, and what you recognised to be my argument, so

[DeasVail]

Deas, you are assuming that projectmatt plays scum a certain way. Snow's meta of him suggests he doesn't play scum the way you assume he would.

Is PMatt's scum meta 'pretend to be struggling with reads'. If so I'll reconsider my read. If not, I won't.

PEdit: I'm not. I don't know what else to say...

[DeasVail]

DV
That was your argument for 2177. That didnt appear to be your argument for 1977.

The only line I can see interpreted as taking your sarcasm at face value is this:

The mocking tone of both the first line and 'GG town. Yates just broke this game wide open.' make it sound like he thinks Yates is town, but then there's the weird vote thing?

and I think it's pretty obvious I'm assuming it's sarcasm.

PEdit: Town meta doesn't matter. People play differently as town all the time. The problem is that you're arguing my defense is invalid because of PMatt's meta, but the 'probably' in the second line reveals you don't know what it is.

What I do know is that PMatt is experienced enough that he wouldn't be scared to call people scum. And my townread isn't because of his lurking, it's because of what he says in the posts he does make.

[DeasVail]

Deas, people play differently as scum too. Saying that he's try harder to do things as scum is just wrong. He doesn't have a history of doing that, so why does it make sense to assume that if he drew scum in this game, he'd definitely change his style? My point is we can't use any meta tells here and we can't take his lurking as a tell either way. You also say he's experienced which means he'd post scum reads as scum. Do you have evidence of this or are you just assuming again?

I'm not saying he'd try harder necessarily as scum, but it'd be much easier to just fake some scumreads as scum or pretend to have more townreads (to avoid having a super large leftover list and thus attract attention and be different) because you don't actually have to

read

people. It's much easier to be unsure of reads to PMatt's extent when you don't have the time to read people as you'd like to, and sometimes it can be a struggle to get good reads even when you do have time.

I have evidence that he's experienced at mafia. I've played with him a couple of times, one of those times being ~ two years ago.

TWIE > Mastin for me.

[DeasVail]

I'm going to stick with TWIE just in case that becomes viable, and I won't be here before deadline, but I think that there should be no problems with getting a lynch through.

[DeasVail]

AP was my strongest scumread after the end of day. I haven't read up, but if hes confscum then that's cool!

[DeasVail]

I will be here in full force tomorrow. Sorry for my absence.

[DeasVail]

Ok, so here are my thoughts.

Snork, I know this is overdue, but you did great. I hope this isn't seen as ass-kissing as I'm (almost?) conftown, so please consider it genuine.

-Weak townlean on Damon for 2653. This was exactly how I felt about AP. After mastin flipping scum, I thought that AP being scum made more sense and my scumread on him became more confident throughout the day as well, so it makes sense that someone would feel similarly. The reason why I don't think it's from scum is admittedly rather weak (so this probably will be one of many things that impact my final read here), but I would feel pretty uncomfortable as scum trying to make it sound as if I was legitimately scumreading AP. Note Yates' contrasting reaction and also the speed with which Damon voted for AP.

This may be covered later, but is 2694 from Yates hinting at a doctor role? If so, I would be reasonably confident saying that all innocents are accurate with SiX's role intended as the possible false positive, but I'm not currently sure where I stand on the SK argument.

Skimmed quickly, but catching up for real now. Will say that Yates has found a secure place in my town reads now though. Was it worth the wait, Yates?

I would like to hear an explanation for the above.

This...is not how gunsmith works in normals as far as I know. I hate to give up my pretty Snork town read, but really. Go wiki a role before you fake claim it.

Hmmm?

I dunno, the odds of a new player thinking to claim two-shot JOAT as SK in a game where Rach is also a confirmed two-shot JOAT who had yet to claim when Six did are pretty low in my opinion. I'm kinda thinking Six pretty much has to be telling the truth here.

My thoughts are along these lines, as well as how nicely Aptil's claim matches up with SiX's. (I thought they were both town since their claims despite my posts indicating otherwise, but now that Rach is dead and there is opposition to SiX-town there's no real reason to hide that anymore). Obviously there's still the possibility that scum actually know SiX is SK, but as someone who has been much more convincingly framed as SK it's not something I'm all that concerned about right now!

Snork, AP is the lynch for today, obv. If he flips Mafia, I'll buy that you either don't understand your role or the mod's derping liek woah.

What's with the pretending AP hasn't claimed mafia?

I'm not sure why ThAd is getting suspicion after Yates' push on him. Even though ThAd wasn't a solid townread by town, as his mafia buddy I would be quite hopeful that he'd be able to last the distance and probably wouldn't try to get pressure on him after losing two buddies one after the other. Unless Yates predicted his own modkill somehow???

My thoughts at the moment...

Not for lynching:

Snork
TWIE
Egg
SiX

Probably not lynching:

Penguin_alien- Concerned about what I've quoted earlier in this post. Would like answers to these to improve my read.
Projectmatt- As possible scum are dwindling, my weak townread on him becomes an issue. Still can't justify a strong townread, but would still prefer to hold off lynching this slot.
PeregrineV- Again, despite a townread, he's someone I need to look at more closely. Again, probably would not lynch.

Maybe?

SnowStorm- Others see him as town and he's someone I definitely need to look at more.
Damon_Gant- Despite some vaguely town things I'll need to find more if he's to move up my lists.
ThAdmiral- Would probably be my favoured choice if not for Yates' push on him. Might still be my favourite option. We shall see!

I also have no idea where the N2 kill comes from and don't really care right now, but I will later, don't you worry.

So, I obviously have to sort out my reads properly and will go through ISOs and whatnot and share my thoughts. I'll start this tonight and may even get a post up, but I'll most likely finish it over a couple of days.

[DeasVail]

basically conf town:
Snork
TheWayItEnds

probably town vig:
SiX

remainder:
DeasVail

Ok

[DeasVail]

I feel more conflicted on PV now that I've gone through his ISO. Still need to work out my read on other people but I'll elaborate once I've decided where he stands in my reads.

[DeasVail]

Here, but not

here

until tomorrow. Sorry.

[DeasVail]

Then you would look at Rach's scumreads and try to decude who that might be. What have you deduced?

Do you actually expect Snork to do this considering it's only one of his possibilities?

[DeasVail]

Oh also, I've decided that I don't want a PMatt lynch. I'll go through PA, ThAd and Damon now.

[DeasVail]

Ok, so not going to finish everything I wanted to look at tonight, but I've done most of it. I'm not up for lynching Snow or PA today either, but I still see PA as possible scum. ThAd is probably out too for today with Damon being the only other one I'm considering at this stage but I want to look at him more closely first. I think it's probable that a PV lynch will happen whatever I decide and I wouldn't be unhappy with it at all, but maybe something else will pop out at me!

[DeasVail]

Projectmatt, try avoiding larges until you complete some smaller games without any trouble keeping up.

He's done this. It's probably just new stuff going on that's making him need to replace out.

Good luck with all that projectmatt.

[DeasVail]

FFery, not sure if you've seen this but Snork has claimed gunsmith with 'no gun' results on me N1 and TWIE N3, and a positive result on AP night 2.

[DeasVail]

it would be DV for praising my investigation on TWIE.

I was praising your investigation on AP, not TWIE.

[DeasVail]

Ok, going with

Vote: PeregrineV

I am cautious because his posting does feel town, but I feel there are better reasons for not lynching the others and what I keep coming back to is that in-thread Day 1 mason thing with AP, which comes across as showy to me more than anything else on reread.

[DeasVail]

UNVOTE:

That actually leads me more towards townPV than anything else.

I can understand this and could easily be wrong, but when I think about it I see much more reason to do it as scum with a scumbuddy (the best way I could describe it is hipster distancing), than as town, where I don't really see much reason at all?

Ok, going with

Vote: PeregrineV

I am cautious because his posting does feel town, but I feel there are better reasons for not lynching the others and what I keep coming back to is that in-thread Day 1 mason thing with AP, which comes across as showy to me more than anything else on reread.

Who are "the others"? And what are the reasons for not lynching them?

PA- I had a strong townread on Mister Rogers and not really a scumread on PA. I believe I may have been too premature in giving a townread to Rogers, but it still makes a PA a less desirable lynch in my mind. I also consider her reaction to Snork's gunsmith claim to be a bit weird and perhaps less likely from scum for that reason.

Egg- I like how he's been very pro-town. I think that BipolarChemist would have been more into the game after pulling off the dayvig thing so successfully. I liked Egg's reaction to Rach and her role/claim.

SiX- His claim makes a lot of sense with Aptil's but the lack of perfect fit makes it less likely from scum imo. Also, he was the first to claim a two-power JOAT when we know that Rach was a two-power JOAT, so I'm pretty sure he's a two-power JOAT and more likely town.

Ffery- I thought PMatt was town. I think you're town.

SnowStorm- Double vote from AP and Mastin is my main reason for holding off here, but there were also some posts from him from ISO that made me think town.

DG- Probably the closest to PV in terms of lynch desirability. His posting does generally come across as the kind that could be from scum except for a couple of small things that make me think town (e.g. the quick vote on AP and his thoughts matching mine there). Also nothing that makes me go hmm like the Day 1 Mason thing from PV.

ThAd- Yates maintaining suspicion on him after losing both Mastin and AP in such a short space of time (the mastin wagon being largely his doing) seems strange as I'd see scum more likely to hold off on the bussing for a while here. Yates does tend to have an aggressive playstyle here so it's possible that he was just doing that with a scumbuddy too, but the timing does not seem right for that.

[DeasVail]

I'll take another look at ThAd when I get the chance.

[DeasVail]

I've decided I don't want to lynch ThAd today.

[DeasVail]

I'll look at the recent big posts when I'm not so tired.

[DeasVail]

Sorry, but family drama has put me completely out of the mood for mafia and so my plan is to get to this tomorrow. It's possible I'll be suddenly in the mood later tonight, but probably not. Sorry again.

[DeasVail]

Ok, caught up (not that there was much to catch up on).

My favourite lynch would still be PeregrineV. Damon_Gant and ThAdmiral are probably on the next tier.