NY 172: Another Large Normal (GAME OVER)

[Mister Rogers]

Vote Talah

Your entrance to this game is not genuine.

[Mister Rogers]

O_o

That's even more scumtastic.

1) Have you ever played with DV before in a game?
2) Please explain how "knowing more people" relates to your actions upon entering this game.

Obfuscation is now added to the lack of sincerity.

[Mister Rogers]

I am talah! Are you town?

Yuppers, sure am.

Well this is good news!

Perhaps if mastin is town too we shall be an unstoppable scumhunting force.

For someone that burned you as scum, you are letting him off far too lightly which reads as insincere; this was indicated by my question #1 to you and was meant as a form of an answer.

you are asking me to provide *more* information which you apparently find scummy.

You used "knowing more people" as a reason for your entrance post. I still don't understand the connection and you have not explained it; thus it remains obfuscation to me. That and the emotive "yawn" just isn't clicking for me here.


Opportunistic, unexplained BW also noted.

[Mister Rogers]

I am talah! Are you town?

Yuppers, sure am.

Well this is good news! Perhaps if mastin is town too we shall be an unstoppable scumhunting force.
Or the first three nightkills ><

Rogers, add trying to build a coalition of friends based on past exploits rather than current-game evidence.

Unvote
Vote: talah

Out of RVS

Town reads are easy for scum; no townie paranoia at the OK Corral today Doc.

[Mister Rogers]

I answered it in post #17, but to further the point, there is a certain cog-dis in your query of DV (whom apparently you have seen recently as scum):

Instead of pressuring him you RVS vote Mastin as a way of greeting him; you pass up pressuring someone who you portend to be alignment concerned over for a non-pressure RVS "greet vote". You then declare them town for no objective reason and appear to bait the person you RVS voted for into a town bloc.

Because of the above, you were obviously not concerned about DV's alignment (nor Mastin's for that matter). It was only window dressing. Its the reason your entrance post was insincere and its proven by your subsequent actions.

Scum want town buddies and are not alignment concerned.

[Mister Rogers]

@Talah: Can you please link to that game with Deas?

[Mister Rogers]

I'm sheeping Deas to get a more solid read on

him

, and

I think his vote on Doc was legit

And I'm sorry but this absolutely needs an explanation.

Whom do you mean by the underlined?

Can you please explain the bolded (how, why etc)?

[Mister Rogers]

Unvote

[Mister Rogers]

I'm scum.

There is no legitimate purpose to this as Town. bjc is either scum or not worth listening to. Obtuse gambits are anti-Town.

Sticking with talah

for now

, but this deserves a vote

later

.

I think somebody looks a little too wagon happy...

Vote Doc

[Mister Rogers]

@BJC: What's your take on the game so far?

[Mister Rogers]

@Mod: Any chance you can differentiate some colors/fonts/formatting in the VC for clarity?

[Mister Rogers]

Doc's RVS vote was bad and the vote by Deas was something i would have done too .

But his posts afterwards read town to me .

Which posts how/why etc?

[Mister Rogers]

I can also confirm that talah was not burned by me whatsoever. Rogers, what was it that gave you that impression? Also, why are you so interested in the game? What do you hope to gain from having the link to it?

Hi Deas! You town

this time

?

It was more of a hunch and a suitable point to push on. I liked her reaction under pressure quite well.

[Mister Rogers]

Doc's RVS vote was bad and the vote by Deas was something i would have done too .

But his posts afterwards read town to me .

Which posts how/why etc?

His 2nd and 3rd post .

Ok...

What did you like in particular about his 3rd post?

[Mister Rogers]

Welcome ZD.

[Mister Rogers]

So far, I'm the guy that likes your entrance.

[Mister Rogers]

Dang are you in my head or what!?

[Mister Rogers]

Roger, what specifically has zdenek posted that mirrors what's in your head?

1) Doc mudslinging the BJC wagon
2) Yourself fencesitting my vote
3) DV's bad queries/statements

[Mister Rogers]

Doc Holliday, I have to say that your 'out of RVS' post was rather disappointing, and unfortunately I am inclined to believe that it was in reaction to my vote.

Your vote had nothing to do with it. It looked like a standard "provoke and see how he reacts" thing, to which I couldn't give a crap. I was much more interested in talah. Talah 1) Called for allies 2) Blindly sheeped those allies 3) Reacted badly to a case being made. For early day one, that's a slam dunk case that I'm not going to "wait and see" on.

If Talah is so hot, why did you use the phrase "for now" in reference to her wagon?

[Mister Rogers]

uhh ahem doc never mudslang the bjc wagon and I never fencesat on anything, explain?

you didn't agree with zdenek on damon gant? I thought it was decent considering damon thinking it was necessary to post something substantive weirded me out.

I am using "mudslinging" here meaning throwing fuel on the fire on a bad wagon.

You totally fencesat my vote and ZD pointed it out.

Hmmm, ZD's DG analysis didn't make my notes. Thanks for pointing it out but of course I agree there and specifically how DG is sheeping Pere's logic and not using his own. He also appears to be overjustifying his absence but happy birthday to him anyway.

[Mister Rogers]

You voted but showed an expressed lack of conviction while doing it. That is fencesitting your voting.

You are also fencesitting your DG vote here even though I support the vote.

[Mister Rogers]

lack of conviction != fencesitting, neither does wanting to wait to see how other people interact while leaving my vote on the person I am most comfortable with wagoning.

I think you have a slightly zealous understanding of terms like "obfuscation", "opportunistic", "fencesitting", "mudslinging" but I don't think it is alignment related.

Look if you express reservations when you vote it allows you to excuse your behavior using said reservations as an excuse.

I mean everything I say even if it differs from what you think it should mean.

[Mister Rogers]

I can also confirm that talah was not burned by me whatsoever. Rogers, what was it that gave you that impression? Also, why are you so interested in the game? What do you hope to gain from having the link to it?

Hi Deas! You town

this time

?

It was more of a hunch and a suitable point to push on. I liked her reaction under pressure quite well.

I just wanted proof of her explanation. It also does provide meta of your scum game and her town game for reference.

[Mister Rogers]

@BP: Have you read the entire thread?

[Mister Rogers]

mmkay. Carry on.

[Mister Rogers]

Aww I was hoping for some questions. MR, whatchu think about bjc's wall of text up there^?

WoT kicks the proverbial butt.

[Mister Rogers]

Dang Talah calm down my head is on fire reading your :goodposting:

I have two SERIOUS issues because players I look up to and respect are confusing me badly:

1) Thad -- You are a very experienced player. Can you please explain to me why you are taking BJC's post so literally? If I didn't know it was you, I would think I was reading a low experience player.

2) Mastin -- A) How does Thad get a townread for his BJC vote? I mean on its face how does he become town for basically coasting RVS and buddying me & voting low hanging fruit? B) How does Aptil get a townread for throwing around opinions but no vote for his scum suspect? I mean how on its face does that make him town??

[Mister Rogers]

@Mastin: Please add to that C) How does Luca get a townread for a naked Doc vote?????????????

(Sorry posting at work)

[Mister Rogers]

OMGOSH. Mastin is voting Talah with his SCUMREAD.

[Mister Rogers]

[Mister Rogers]

Questions for you:
a) who are you an alt of?
b) why were you not in my neighbourhood mafia game? Would have been a perfect fit (although the game sort of sucked).

Well, I'm not really an alt of anyone but I have been playing Mafia for years on various sites. There is an account on this site (that I thought was lost but apparently its still here) called Lamont_Cranston.

lol. I think I have heard of this game being mentioned many times; I just started playing Mafia again and well, I only play 1 game at a time and so, I guess I just missed it. It must of been pretty cool.

[Mister Rogers]

@Thad: Well I guess the point is that my instinctual response is to simply ignore it and treat it as null and I have far less experience than you do.

Can you show me games where this has happened before and you reacted the same way?

[Mister Rogers]

I'm not completely caught up or anything, but I just want to say that I learned about scum hunting the RVS from the Mastin School; i.e. I read the game where you lost your Mastin Mastin, Mastin and ever since I have tried to follow that philosophy as a guiding light. I feel hugely complimented that you agree on my RVS evaluation on Talah (I cannot yet comment on your stated follow-up analysis) but the 3 reads I mentioned feel terribly off to me and I feel myself agreeing with Talah here.

[Mister Rogers]

Ok time for some proper analysis.

Just throwing this in. I tend to agree with you that Mastin was buddying you earlier regarding your first post.

[Mister Rogers]

Doc, scummy. Talah, scum. Doc could be scum. Talah

is

scum. Also, even if scum, there is such a thing as bussing. Especially in the RVS.

That said, while talah's scum...
VOTE: Damon Gant.
...My scumread here is much, much stronger.

You're going to have to explain the whole "Talah

is

scum" but "My scumread here (damon gant) is much, much stronger".

I don't want this to be missed and it needs responding to.

[Mister Rogers]

@ZD: Can you clarify which posts from the rapid cluster you are referring to?

[Mister Rogers]

Doc needs to post.

[Mister Rogers]

Although I would be up for wagoning Luca, not for Luca's solitary Doc vote (that's null), for defending bjc while leaving room for doubt with "but it could be some sort of ridiculous

buff

"

I think he's an avid gamer.

lol sorry.

Town-wide analysis post soon .

[Mister Rogers]

Yeahno. You're not a player who can read me,

What makes you say this about talah?

This is important and needs responding to.

[Mister Rogers]

If I'm scum fo' sho' - why not get me lynched so you can be vindicated obvtown? Contrary to what you're presenting, you're an excellent orator, so it should be no problem for you to iterate specifics in my "case". You only have trouble explaining gut reads initially as town. You very rarely let time pass where your scumreads are gut if someone asks you *why*, in my experience.

This

personal distancing

is troubling to me.

Can someone, anyone, please explain what the bolded re the underlined actually means; I am having trouble getting the exact point and I feel its important.

[Mister Rogers]

Unless you're prepared to back them up where a direct question is asked, they're inauthentic.

Like hell they are. As I said, if you're so much as half as familiar as you claim to be with my meta, you'd know: scum-me can justify literally any read

specifically because they're faked

. Rather, because a scum me already knows the answer, I can fill in the gaps much more effectively, to present a clearer train of thought. So much so, that literally every single game where I was logically in the superior was a scumgame, and essentially every "guys, just...trust me, okay?" game is town.

@Talah: You didn't respond to this point. Is Mastin correct here?

[Mister Rogers]

Are you interested in why I think it's multi-scum based on your one post? Because I have a clear though process on that, too.

Well I'm certainly interested.

@Talah: I am going to ask that you come forth with the details of your assertion unless you want to state that you were wrong.

[Mister Rogers]

Ok, reading your post above, I will modify to:

If there is a significant chance you could be right.

[Mister Rogers]

Yeah, you're scum. This line of thought simply doesn't come from a town player. Town player? "Why do you think Rogers is town? Why do you think I'm scum?" Scum player? "Why do you think our interactions are town vs. scum?" (Making an assumption that interactions have anything to do with the read. They might contribute to the overall picture, but are largely irrelevant.) "...Also, he unvoted me; surely that makes him either scum or wrong." (That's essentially what talah's saying, here.)

This looks good.

Really? Am I missing something because (no offense to Mastin) but it read to me like a barely substantial semantics argument which would be better suited for RVS.

[Mister Rogers]

This needs to happen.

Unvote, Vote Gant

Doc is a scum read of mine but Gant, my gosh, somethin' ain't right there Lucy....

[Mister Rogers]

Although I would be up for wagoning Luca, not for Luca's solitary Doc vote (that's null), for defending bjc

while leaving room for doubt

with "but it could be some sort of ridiculous buff"

Ahem. But didn't you do this with both myself AND DG but at the opposite of the spectrum? O_o

[Mister Rogers]

@DG: With a join date of 2010, how much mafia experience do you have DG? Did you read Thad's post #143?

[Mister Rogers]

OOOPS. Blush. I'm not caught up yet. Skimmed your post. Sorry, I have to force myself to digest posts manually to avoid stupidity like that. I see you covered it.

[Mister Rogers]

@Mod: Can we please prod Pere.

[Mister Rogers]

Ok time for some proper analysis.

Just throwing this in. I tend to agree with you that Mastin was buddying you earlier regarding your first post.

I don't think I actually said that tbh.

You know I went back and looked at the post & I think it was what I actually expected you to say there...

[Mister Rogers]

As for me, #202 earns the benefit of my doubt. I ESPECIALLY like how he actually followed through with his Mastin analysis; I read his intention as posturing and I was pretty sure we would never see that post. I also appreciate all the genuine thought and effort that went into that post.

Unvote

Very close to creating full analysis post at which time I will have a top set of scum (minus Nero & Smudge).

[Mister Rogers]

Although I would be up for wagoning Luca, not for Luca's solitary Doc vote (that's null), for defending bjc

while leaving room for doubt

with "but it could be some sort of ridiculous buff"

Ahem. But didn't you do this with both myself AND DG but at the opposite of the spectrum? O_o

yes, that's the point, it's the opposite. What's the motivation for someone to leave room for a read to be town, i.e. less credit for a lynch?

Are you seriously asking this question? How about Player A as scum knows Player B is town but wants some wiggle room in case the lynch goes through or the player is NK'ed?

Compared to leaving the door open for suspicion, i.e. giving credit to lynch while defending against it?

Well ya scum love their night Q/T and I can't help think of Doc when I say this but that doesn't change the fact that door swings in both directions.

And I never showed any doubt with my DG read.

ORLY? The term "vote parking" means a temporary place to put your vote until later. The word "until" indicates a time in which your vote will no longer be on DG and "more people enter the game" is a clear condition for when your vote will move.

It reads more like town posturing; appearing to be busy doing something a townie would do rather than any genuine scum hunting.

[Mister Rogers]

How about I "park" my vote here until I am done with my analysis post?

Vote Anxiety

Notice how temporary it feels and like how it lacks force?

The thing is I've parked in a bad part of town and I have alot of typing to do and so I might just return to the car and find it up on blocks... (WELP)

[Mister Rogers]

Ok this game is sort of spinning out of control. Too many players for me to capture and quantify all the data in a collected way before too much new data is introduced. I will post some substantive reads though and attempt to complete a full analysis once I have caught up.

This analysis is good up to post #210.

Well I think we are ahead of the game already. We can effectively remove 10% of the player list from suspicion due to ZD's excellent play.

Let's get the lurkers out of the way first:

Smudge

-- We cannot let him slip under the radar and need to force him to really be substantive to make up for the time he missed and help the game state. If they can't handle the task, they need to replace out for someone that can.

Now the low posters:

Rach

-- Comments on the "thread explosion" & Talah male from game she modded. Pere suspicion good (Yates) because BB replaces regardless of alignment. Votes Pere for the same reason. Up to this point I see too much IOA; the BB issue is a great place for scum to hang their hat while contributing nothing to this game. Queries Talah on his townread of herself. Now this is universally considered a townie thing to do, so much so that its actually easy to fake; not that someone shouldn't do it because its NECESSARY but that it is easily a scum reflex action to appear as town. It is possible that my problems with Rach revolve around her lack of posting but I must have her as

leaning scum

.

Luca

-- Naked Doc vote; I especially don't like this because it was a wagon vote. Fencesitty BJC commentary & unprompted defense stating that early apathy is more likely to come from town than scum (??). I can see nothing that I like from Luca and he too must

lean scum

.

Aptil

-- Comments on Doc's RVS vote & would of voted Doc too but Doc posted good after that; I question this analysis as I disagree but it does appear Aptil actually believes this. Calls BJC

lynchbait

which Talah caught as a town reference; like Luca this is an unprompted defense and an easy thing for scum. What I really don't like is how he blankets Talah with a bad posting label but doesn't follow up with a vote; a vote at least signifies personal responsibility & a scum hunting mindset. Aptil needs to pick up his game as his viable content and player track is far too low.

null to scum

Pere

-- Neighborhood Q/T joke RVS vote with no other comment even though some genuine conflict has begun. Votes low hanging fruit in BJC but does point out that BJC skimming 30 posts sounds faked. Makes a comment about voting BB_replace_scum; obviously faulty analysis on its face but it DID force some people to bring BB meta up AND it created an easy target for those who are so desirous. I like the genuine scum hunting but dislike the target; the benefit of the doubt here lies in Pere returning to this thread for more genuine content.

Conditional null to town

Doc Holliday

-- Starts with a joke vote of BB. Adds to the early Talah case with some original spin concerning coalition building and Votes for Talah which was very strong but then weakens that terribly by indicating that he would be leaving the wagon at some point in the future ("for now") and uses the low hanging fruit BJC as a potential avenue to do so; this reads to me as "Boy I like wagons, let's get one wherever we can!" and because he weakened the wagon he was currently on, it indicates a certain insincerity with his convictions even though he later defends that read strongly; this is cog-dis. With this little to go on and most of it bad, Doc is

leaning scum

Now for everyone else:

DV

-- Votes Doc without explanation. Talah liked this and I will defer. Follows up with accusing Doc of deflecting by voting Talah because there is no game evidence for a Talah vote; I disagree with the conclusion here but like the function which is to draw Doc out. Points out that the Talah vote however is serious because Doc left his vote there in the face of BJC suspicion; this is original logic and genuine effort that I would find hard to fake. He holds Talah as null (early). Queries myself on Talah inquiry. Accuses Thad of posturing with BJC suspicion. Likes ZD's reads except for DG. He seems to slightly overreact however when ZD mentions his name in connection with a scum alignment. Queries Doc's #62 as inconsistent (which I don't understand but man more original and genuine thought/effort). Queries Talah about Mastin lurking/complaining and queries Mastin about Talah's ability to read him. Analysis post #110: Doc, Aptil, Thad as scum & maybe 1-2 more. I have read a game where DV contributes nowhere even close to how well he is posting this game. I certainly hope he keeps this up because he will be a tremendous asset to the town & game state.

Solid town

Talah

-- He is the most prolific poster in this game (density). He also is a very strong player. I would say he got off to a shaky start and then its like something clicked and he was filled with townie light that shone like the sun; I'm not taking credit or anything but it was in response to the pressure I directed at him. This positive change emerged with noting the Pere/Admiral joke interaction as possible scum buddying; I noticed the same thing and was impressed that he was thinking about the same possibility. I agree with the initial Doc push & meta help with DV analysis. Points out that the word "lynchbait"(Aptil) connotes town alignment which I found to be an excellent catch. The townie indignation was quite strong against Doc and what can we say? He went after Mastin with such force and conviction; could he actually fake something like that? I think its highly unlikely. He has some kind of theory about multiball & Mastin which could be quite valuable to the town if it could be true but I think his discretion should rule the day there. An excellent catch about Mastin's posting limitation as an excuse to lurk/complain. Pointed out cog-dis in Mastin's DG vote while so strongly suspecting himself & Mastin should be trying get him lynched. The Mastin vote was the full expression of a townie on fire. I think the Rach read is more along the lines of sentimental than substantial. Back to Mastin pointing out how Mastin gives easy town reads to low posters but a scum read to himself who has very much content to analyze. I agree with his take on Aptil. I can only admire his restraint with Mastin as he pulls away to keep himself balanced. I would say that Talah has obviously put alot of work into his game and can only see him as

strong town

BJC

-- Claims scum. Regardless of opinions regarding this post, it DID help to get the game rolling and its impact can STILL be felt in this game. He seems to overjustify his behavior with a timeline of his actions and makes a strange comment about "the usual people are too uptight" which I still don't understand. Votes Doc after skimming which also appears as over-justification of his behavior along with more timeline regarding content. Then, similar to Talah, something clicks and his posts take on a better character. He starts with cog-dis in Thad's joke criteria being OK for Pere but not OK for himself. He queries Doc on how his post can even be termed a gambit as nobody could possibly take it seriously; I found this to be quite impressive logic. He accurately points out Doc's fencesitting his wagon and then tells me I am talkative because he has read my game on site; that really did impress me. I like how he fully accepts Aptil's lynchbait assertion with a certain free flowing joy that is tough to fake. He actually did skim 30 posts. I like him calling DG out for his vote of himself and can only agree with his Luca appraisal as finger pointing. Man I wish this guy was around more but what I have seen can only be

town

Thad

-- Jokes back to Pere about the neighborhood Q/T; both Talah & I thought about possible scum buddying there. Likes my RVS though forced; I didn't like the fact that none of the content of my case was addressed there but you can't have everything I guess. Votes BJC; ZD actually awakened me to the idea that a player as ancient as Thad really shouldn't be voting BJC here and now that I think about it, I think it would be more consistent for Thad to

applaud

BJC's post in the same way that my posts were addressed; it helped to get us out of RVS. I can't help but notice (along with some other person in this game that I forget) that Thad preemptively hits the "I'm scum for taking the bait" note; I would give this town cred but subsequent posts show that he really believes it and wasn't using it to encourage reads. I liked his calling out of Anx for fencesitting his vote of myself because it showed he was paying attention in an analytical way. I agree with calling out Mastin for DG read (vs. Talah) and of course agree with his appraisal of Talah's "lynchbait" (via Aptil) and his Talah town read. Again showing an active mindset with his inquiry RE multiball ala Talah/Mastin. Thad remains unabashed at voting BJC for his "scum" post to the point of even accusing ZD of WK BJC; I guess this means that Thad is sincere here but man it feels good when a person stops hitting their head against a brick wall. Analysis post #143 Myself town, Talah town, DG inexperienced town (this got me thinking and is more of what I would like to see from Thad ie deeper game wisdom). Doc null-town; I can't really agree here but we both can agree Doc needs to post. Pere null, Luca null, BJC leaning scum for only interacting with those that voted him; here I think we can apply the same criteria that Thad used for Pere/Luca ie low posting. ZD scum for 6 scum reads and no town reads; here I certainly disagree as I had ZD as solid town FOR his scum hunting. I found Thad's view here an oversimplification that again, lacks the wisdom I would expect to see from Thad. Anx weak votes myself/Gant leaning scum, Aptil weak/questionable read on BJC null-scum. I disagreed with Thad's vote of ZD and his accusations that ZD was not scum hunting just sound wrong and the town reads issue contrived even though the logic of balanced reads is correct. I like his defense of DG which got me thinking. Of course I agree with Thad's ultimate clearing of ZD but don't understand why it took that to get him to see ZD as at least leaning town with reservations instead of scum. Thad votes Anx. I need to check my analysis notes but I think I have Anx as improving with more recent posts and I suspect I will again find divergence with Thad. I am terribly conflicted with Thad as I see some of the wise play I would expect but some astonishing play that I would not expect. I can see Thad as town and as scum and so I can only have him as

null

This is what I have so far and again, I will attempt to complete an analysis on the other players once I have caught up (WELP!)

[Mister Rogers]

@Yates: Welcome to this game man! Supa awesome just like I remember you from reading a couple of games you were in.

1) Its not the fake kill itself, its Chem's reaction in multi-stages that aligns perfectly with his join date that convinces me.
2) I don't like wishy washy votes for the reasons I have stated. Furthermore, the cog-dis in applying the same criteria to someone else as a scum case and then denying said behavior regarding oneself is too much for me to handle and thus the vote. Just verifying, you read his post where he used the phrase, "Vote parking here until more people join the game" right?

[Mister Rogers]

Ok, applying some wisdom to the situation because I can foresee what is going to happen: I will never get a full analysis post out fast enough this early in the game with so many players.

The following players I have yet to analyze:

Anx, DG, ZD, Snow, Chem, Yates, Mastin, Matt

I will just briefly summarize and get back to digesting.

Anx -- Has a wishy washy voting profile but yet is willing to accuse others for the same thing. Reads like insincere town posturing

scum

DG -- Bad game start re BJC. Over-defensive. Bad game logic. Rusty & R/L issues. Sincere. I want to give him the benefit of the doubt but he seriously needs to improve.

null

ZD -- Very strong entrance. Strong and consistent scum hunting effort. INCREDIBLE FAKE VIG! Helped the town tremendously. I strongly disagree with Talah read but that's all I disagree with; the guy is playing a near perfect town game.

strong town

Snow -- Excellent DG catches with blending & over-defensive tone. Excellent reads. Another great DG catch falsely elevating BJC read. Needs to widen scope but so far :goodposting:.

town

Chem -- Can't understand Rach read; oversimplistic. Good game logic. Totally sincere +town reaction to vig.

very strong town

Yates -- Undigested but incredible game-wide scope. Don't agree with all reads but at least 75%+. Errrm, what? No vote? Meh. I guess there is only so much 1 guy can do at one time. Can't fault Nero here though.

null to town

Mastin -- Terrible initial game reads with Thad, Aptil & Luca. Bad vote switch backpedal. Strong defense post #114 but even this does not eclipse the very bad entrance. Talah seems wise to pull back and let Mastin continue and I will do the same.

leaning scum

Matt -- Reads post #133. Agree with reads except Rach. Noting Matt-Pere interactions. Not voting. Good start that I agree with. Needs more.

null to town

Nero -- Welcome back man. Obviously you will deliver more than a naked vote.

null

Scum:

Rach, Luca, Aptil, Doc, Anx, Mastin

Need to see that Smudge replace. I expect to see some of the low posters to improve their rating. I expect that there is at least one town/null read that is playing a great scum game so far; *glares at Thad*

[Mister Rogers]

Pardon my ignorance but what is MSU?

[Mister Rogers]

Just a quick note. I think I can agree with a null to scum rating for Yates. Now is not the time to get into the details on it because I would like to see more people posting. I don't know, I might be channeling Nero here.

[Mister Rogers]

I've read a game with you in it and you were a powerful and wise scum hunter there; a true presence to be reckoned with. Making scum tremble. How would you have me rate you if I can make a case for you being town and equally being scum?

Are you pushing ZD as scum with me here? I mean are you seriously doing that? Am I misunderstanding you?

You cleared ZD didn't you?

[Mister Rogers]

See what gets me is you pushed on this "reads" issue without addressing the content nor valuing the benefit of that content. I also don't understand why you would even bring this up since ZD is strong town for you now, right?

[Mister Rogers]

Sorry to have to say this but it seems like kind of a wiki tell. Its also kind of strange because scum town read all over the place effortlessly because they can. Which reminds me of a certain player that has posted recently; pretty sure its Pere...

[Mister Rogers]

Damon is town.
talah is town
ThAd is town.
Yates is town.
Rogers is town.

Some others I want to give town reads(snip)

Yup. Not seeing the content I wanted from Pere.

[Mister Rogers]

Ya it was so long ago. Can't forget that green emerald djini.

[Mister Rogers]

That's an oversimplification of his play. He had scum reads for other reasons too. Besides he was genuinely reading people not just throwing out reads.

[Mister Rogers]

And look, I mean the whole process that he was going through was helpful to town imo. I mean it is in a similar vein to my Talah case, helping us to get out of RVS -- I mean it was clearly pro-town activity and you want me to believe that the reason you were unable to see that was because of BJC and its true you have given every indication that you are sincere there but man I gave up that kind of thinking YEARS ago because it proves fruitless and frustrating and I would expect you would of done the same thing.

What do you think of Yates querying you on ZD?

[Mister Rogers]

And my town read of BJC with reasons?

[Mister Rogers]

I'm at work so limited access and I am sure I have questions I could ask you but LA

[Mister Rogers]

1) How is your undisclosed alt player doing?

2) You said you noted their interaction

at the time

which was RVS; I can only assume you meant scum buddying? If not, what did you mean? I saw potential scum buddying because its a thing scum can do in RVS (I'm sure Mastin has info about this).

3) Have you been thinking about the multi-ball thing? Is it viable for release? Could you be correct?

[Mister Rogers]

Meh. Its an RVS tell that becomes valuable later based on flips where both you are Pere are scum winking at each other and saying "Hi!" with a joke. Its not the value of the tell that I liked so much with Talah but the fact that he noticed it at all and thought to post about it; ie critical thinking & awareness.

[Mister Rogers]

\What do you think of Yates querying you on ZD?

Well my read of zd's fakevig and bipolar's reaction is based entirely off gut-feels. I'd be surprised if there were people who

didn't

have a different reaction.

So your read of Chem's reaction is only "gut"? And you expect others not to agree with your gut?

[Mister Rogers]

You know I was thinking similar veins about scum daytalk. I noticed some posting earlier that if it turns out scum have daytalk would look pretty suspicious based on the right flips.

[Mister Rogers]

Well its "gut" in that I have no proof to back it up or anything. Like there are some reactions that just seem real to me, and some that seem false and (although I said I wasn't all that good in an earlier post) I think I'm pretty decent at distinguishing the two. If I

had

to quantify it I think scum (particularly scum that figured it was fake) would have made more of a strop about it and complained and gotten faux-angrier about it. Bipolar sort of just jokes about it -

and the asking to see if he could post before the mod confirmed his "death" just

feels

reads genuine.

Ok, so here we now agree (with the appropriate edit). So really, its more than gut right?

[Mister Rogers]

@Anx: What prompted you to change your mind on DG?

[Mister Rogers]

@Mastin: My condolences on your Grandma. You will always remember her in your heart.

You're going to have to explain the whole "Talah

is

scum" but "My scumread here (damon gant) is much, much stronger".

Scales of scumread? Doc is minor. Talah was medium-strong. (Now is weak-at-worst. Give me a while to mull it over.) Damon is super-mega-basically-confscum-strong.

Ummm. Sorry to have to say this but this is an explanation from a 2nd grader. I think its understandable however due to the circumstances.

It seems everyone is giving Mastin a pass due to self-meta (including Thad who specifically forbids it for himself) but due to his own admission, Mastin is unreadable except for his reads and therefore his self-meta is manipulatable (by behavior) and thus invalid.

Just sayin'.

[Mister Rogers]

Pere throwing out as many town reads as he possibly can and retaining his focus on BJC's 1st post is not the quality I needed to see. He is downgraded to

null to scum

.

There is a sort of bizarre dynamic here because he only has two votes and both people are voting him for a scummy reason; there are still ways it can make sense though.

[Mister Rogers]

RE: Pere

Why was BJC low hanging fruit

Because he made a post that was very easy to attack.

Why was BB_replace_scum "faulty analysis"

Well I like how it brought people to attack you. Yes you are making a good point here. You were low hanging fruit too. I have Rach as scum for that (among other things). I am not liking Yates for it especially because he hasn't moved an inch while the "thread has exploded". Although again, a bizarre dynamic, but you haven't given him a reason to move either.

Very funny. At this point he is prod-dodge/lurking. Seeing his first post as null, I shall be judging him based on subsequent posts and/or lack thereof.

Throwing out a bunch of town reads with only one "scum suspect" is scumtastic. It is not genuine town play. This is a game with 19 other players and almost all of them have posted and a handful of them are scum (and probably not BJC imo).

[Mister Rogers]

He hasn't posted since. I like the points I mentioned. There is no need for me to re-analyze anything until he posts again. If he makes prod dodging a habit I will be happy to wagon him.

[Mister Rogers]

I'm not going to argue with you over your great desire to create naked town reads. Its scumtastic.

[Mister Rogers]

How about I join Yates and adovcate your lynch until you stop trolling or leave the game at the end of a rope?

[Mister Rogers]

Ok.

[Mister Rogers]

Sorry if I overreacted. Carry on.

[Mister Rogers]

Errrm, what? No vote? Meh. I guess there is only so much 1 guy can do at one time.

I was and continue to be voting Pere. For reasons...

Ya and I don't like them.

...Bipolar sort of just jokes about it -

and the asking to see if he could post before the mod confirmed his "death" just

feels

reads genuine.

Ok, so here we now agree (with the appropriate edit).

Are you guys high?

If you think scum have day talk

, isn't that

exactly

something someone would do?

Quote me the post where ANYONE says they think scum have daytalk. The fact you bring this up NOW is 1) Tinfoil Hat, 2) +scum

There is a sort of bizarre dynamic here because he only has two votes and both people are voting him for a scummy reason

I'm voting for Pere. What's my scummy reason?

The BB issue is a non-issue and low hanging fruit. Its a great thing for scum to make noise about just as you seem to be doing. I would expect better from you.

I am not liking Yates for it especially because he hasn't moved an inch while the "thread has exploded". Although again, a bizarre dynamic, but you haven't given him a reason to move either.

Oh. Well, that's just weak. You are condemning me for not unvoting Pere while I was away from the game? lol. Pere responded [kind of unsatisfactorally - as you note yourself] after my last post and before this one.

I'm starting to like Pere now but I am not liking you.

Unvote, Vote Yates

[Mister Rogers]

Zdenek keeps toying with the Talah vote but hopped onto me for agreeing with PV about him which is pretty sketch. Voting me and simultaneously backpedaling on the inherent seriousness of his reads that I brought up makes me pretty willing to lynch that Today

I am pretty shocked about ZD's reactions regarding your posts. It appears you rattled him pretty bad. I like your transparent catch up. I don't agree with everything you have said but most of it.

I am definitely watching Thad with you and to a far lesser extent now, ZD.

[Mister Rogers]

presumably mastin recommended me.

Can you please explain?

[Mister Rogers]

completely agree with pere's 294 - I can understand not having a scum-read on bjc, but there is really no way people should have a townread on him. This goes to rogers, projectmatt and potentially others I forgot.

I like his critical thought processes and his free flowiing tone which is great for early game but his lack of presence is starting to become disturbing. I have no problem defending my early town read but it is fading fast for a prod dodging lurker-scum label.

I'm scum.

Town.

*sigh*

I actually agreed with you here.

-On 4nxi3ty
He's logical, and I've seen him before,

but something about his posts unsettle me

. Watching.

It's probably, you know, his lack of content and lack of conviction in his reads.

Yup.

[Mister Rogers]

I just wanna say something.

It feels so GOOD playing in a game with players that don't complain about posting so much. I mean its like a weight off my shoulders. Love, hugs, everyone

[Mister Rogers]

Quote me the post where ANYONE says they think scum have daytalk. The fact you bring this up NOW is 1) Tinfoil Hat, 2) +scum

Daytalk really isnt as uncommon as you seem to think it is.

There is a difference between accepting the possibility of daytalk and presumptively declaring that it exists in an argument.

[Mister Rogers]

The BB issue is a non-issue and low hanging fruit. Its a great thing for scum to make noise about just as you seem to be doing. I would expect better from you.

Yates sort of actively discouraged people from badwagoning on PV

Pardon me but are you guys a hydra? Or is it scum buddies? I mean, why are you answering for Yates here?

How about I join Yates and adovcate your lynch

Uh. How am I "advocating" a Pere lynch? My vote? You realize votes are scum hunting tools, right? My vote is on Pere specifically because I'm

in the process

of determining his alignment.

You really think Yates is going for a low hanging mislynch whilst going out of his way to discourage voters on the wagon?

No. I think he's been making noise on a non-issue when he had ample opportunity to do something better.

There is a difference between accepting the possibility of daytalk and presumptively declaring that it exists in an argument.

Are you guys high? If you think scum have day talk, isn't that exactly something someone would do? Also, even if you think Bipolar is Town how does that in any way reflect on Zdenek's alignment?

Hes not though? Hes arguing that town reads on the situation are naive, not saying that day chat exists and therefore the situation was 100% fake.

I would expect scum to be making the same argument.

[Mister Rogers]

@Mod: Is it possible that you might include prod status in your VC's?

[Mister Rogers]

@Mod: Is it possible that you might include prod status in your VC's?

@Mod: The VC is wrong because I am voting Yates

[Mister Rogers]

vote: Yates

Because 323. Nope, that's a lot of not matching my limited experience with him.

Can you elaborate?

@PK: Your catchup is not complete.

[Mister Rogers]

There are a few people who have expressed townreads on Doc, which I don't really understand.... onsidering Doc pretty much *added* to what Mister was saying rather than bringing in any particularly original content. Mister's 'Ok Corral' response is one of those things which had me wondering too.

At that point Doc was seeing something that I saw and my post acknowledged that. Of course, what ruined that was his subsequent post regarding your wagon & the BJC wagon which demonstrated a mindset that was far worse than just a simple RVS push. I put a query out to him about this but he never returned to the thread and I have read him as scummy ever since.

PK has not completed his catchup and my read of him at this point is mixed.

[Mister Rogers]

I mean the fact that he's asking Zdenek whether he can still post or not implies he *knows* that Zdnenek is town?

What is this? How about surrender from someone that knows he's dead? I don't even see your point being applicable though...

[@PK]It's very difficult to understand where you're coming from analytically with a readslist like that.

I agree here.

[Mister Rogers]

Also, Talah the attack from AP you just quoted, I had the

opposite

reaction that he did. Its that post a few others that give me a mixed feeling on him too.

[Mister Rogers]

271 is odd because I wouldn't expect 'gut-feels' to have the impact that they did on ThAd's reads.

I would very much like Thad to address this.

[Mister Rogers]

@Talah: Do you ever post your reads in a concrete way? How about a top 5-6 scum list?

[Mister Rogers]

@Mod: Is Luca still in prod status?

[Mister Rogers]

But no, I'm not going to have 5-6 scumreads in a 20 player game.

You should.

I might have a couple of scum leans at this stage

I don't like this.

but I'm mainly looking at townposting and for D1 who's the most likely scum to push / advocate / agree with a few days out from deadline.

Or this as it doesn't jive well with the quote above and I don't like emphasis on town reads over scum.

The amount of lurkfucks at the moment is prime real estate for scum.

What you mean to push??

Why don't you jump on Luca or something?

Last time I checked, its better to vote active scum reads and I have a few of them with the addition now of Yates.

[Mister Rogers]

Ok, actually almost all of my scum reads are lurking. I guess we have a problem with the game state. Aptil & BJC are prod dodging and I het this. Luca is active lurking and I can't figure out if he is being replaced or not. Mastin has a very unfortunate V/LA and I feel sorry for them.

[Mister Rogers]

But no, I'm not going to have 5-6 scumreads in a 20 player game.

You should.

Er, no. I'll have precisely the amount of scumspects as I think are scummy. Probably I'll have a 'leftovers' list which contains most if not all of the scumteam. I don't know where you get this theory that I should have more scumreads than is actually possible in a 20 player game. If there are two scumteams it's 'traditionally' harder to find scumspects because scum get to, you know, actually scumhunt the other team.

So you're bringing up multi-ball and

as an excuse

why?

So please explain why 5-6 scumreads is rational.

How about any from you?

I might have a couple of scum leans at this stage

I don't like this.

Good for you, champ.

I meant to bold the word "might" like as scum you would be creating a theoretical list once you got around to it which is how you sound being so detached.

but I'm mainly looking at townposting and for D1 who's the most likely scum to push / advocate / agree with a few days out from deadline.

Or this as it doesn't jive well with the quote above and I don't like emphasis on town reads over scum.

I'll be focussing on who I think is town and ultimately checking out whether I like their pushes for lynch. My own pushes for lynch which have succeeded are statistically terrible, and so now I prefer to build consensus. I'm not a good leader.

You know, DV's post got me thinking. My townread on you has been of your

defense

from others and I realized that I don't have any proactive reasons to call you town. Your game in fact has been entirely reactionary with only lip service and going through the motions of gaining scum reads. The problem is, you don't have any.

The amount of lurkfucks at the moment is prime real estate for scum.

What you mean to push??

For scum to *hide in*, lurkfucking the game away, with no pressure and not needing to post or put themselves on the line.

Its also a great place for scum to vote since they have an ironclad excuse.

---

If I had two votes...

I can't figure out which is worse Yates pushing daytalk or Talah pushing multi-ball.

[Mister Rogers]

If it turns out we have multi-ball, I am going to be coming back to this.

[Mister Rogers]

@DV: There is scum motivation to go against the grain on ZD-Chem.

You also have provided 7 reads in a 20 player game. You could just go through and fill in the remaining 12; especially Mastin.

[Mister Rogers]

Mister, I'll post back tomorrow. I've just spent four and a half hours reading through the thread, giving my opinions. But if you want to vote me, why set it up? Why not just do it?

Because I need to stay where I am. There are various posts scattered about that I have addressed to you that I am looking for your response on. Have a good night's sleep.

[Mister Rogers]

I noticed I missed a couple of of your posts during tonight's posting but if you want to iterate what you want answered it would be good so I don't have to be taking tally of your questions for follow up.

Putting them together into one post after I answer this.

Your 386, if I was dayvigged by scum I would be fucking livid, not asking that scum whether I was still allowed to post. That means Chemist either knows Zdenek's alignment, or strongly suspects he's town.

Yup. Well I guess I am in the same boat as Chem because even though I have read a game with scum day-vig, I totally forgot about that possibility. Anyone else think "scum dayvig" here?

And once again I don't make excuses, I explain what I'm thinking. When multiball's in play confusion can come into play because there are 'too many town' - ie if you're working from PoE based on who's scumhunting you can end up with a deficiency of scumreads and end up townreading folks just because they're trying to catch other-scum out. Something to watch out for and totally moot until we get a scumflip.

The default is one scum team, not multi-ball but you used it as a reason for not having scum reads.

A balanced amount of scum would be 4-5 in a 20 player game depending on the setup.

Generally, having an extra scum read is normal. but my issue is with your none and how casual you are about the whole thing.

And I think that's all aside from maybe a readslist?

From memory:

Prob-town:
Deas
Yates
Damon
Pere
Admiral
Pidgeon
Rach
Zdenek
YOU

Maybe-town:
matt
4nx
pisskop
bjc
Chemist

The Rest:
mastin
Luca
aptil
Snow
Nero

So your Mastin scum read has vanished and has been replaced by a PoE read? That doesn't sound genuine. Was your push on Mastin genuine?

[Mister Rogers]

1) It ain't IoA when its filled with reasoning.

2) Lurkers will sort themselves out (post/replaced) or be sorted (wagoned for prod doging) -- its far too convenient to just simply lob a vote on a lurker which is why its scummy when its the primary thing a person does.

3) I sort of meant the good night as an olive branch because I come off kinda harsh at times but its ok that it bothers you; I wasn't trying to bother you.

Your point on Chem reads as the surrender of a townie that knows they are dead.

[Mister Rogers]

@PK: Perchance, are you an alt?

[Mister Rogers]

I can't figure out which is worse Yates pushing daytalk or...

Quote me the post where ANYONE says they think scum have daytalk.

Are you trolling me right now?

You know

I was thinking similar veins about scum daytalk

.

I can't figure out which is worse Rogers pushing daytalk or pretending he didn't.

Yes I did leave that post out there. But nowhere do I say I think scum have daytalk. Using that argument to push against Chem is exactly what I would expect from scum and YOU'RE the one that did it.

The BB issue is a non-issue and low hanging fruit. Its a great thing for scum to make noise about just as you seem to be doing. I would expect better from you.

A. Low hanging fruit is low hanging fruit because it's low hanging. But that's not really what I'm doing so who cares...
B. You didn't actually answer the question; What do you think my vote is about? This is kind of important.
C. Why would you expect "better" from me in particular? I have a history here with a few people that could actually make that statement [Pere, as it so happens, being one of them]. You don't make the cut [neither does pisskop, for that matter]. AND if you did expect "better" from me, as you say, then why wouldn't you acknowledge I'm very likely playing an angle here that you aren't seeing yet? Especially since you can't answer the question I asked in B...

Ok. This is kind of amazing because both you and Pere are playing at me the same way. It is kind of confusing actually. In fact, I feel like I am being smoothed over here. Yes, I like that Pere is doing this "wait and see gaining reads" angle and he has yet to produce fruit from it AND OK, you are pulling a similar angle with him specifically -- so I am basically left with this "I'm going to throw up my hands and wait" while I watch both of you.

Basically, I am in deep waters with both of you, they are murky and I am not sure what is there yet...

I am not liking you.

That sometimes happens when I call scum out on their bullshit. *shrug* But then, you already know that about me, right?

I never said I knew you and you haven't called me on any bullcrap. In case anyone hasn't noticed you townread me and basically left me alone. I'm the one that started this.

I need to get out of tunnel mode

Ya no kidding.

---

Now excuse me while I go and at least try to figure out the answer to your "B" which if it is impossible for me to do as you appear to state, there had better be an explanation that we can all see, mmkay?

[Mister Rogers]

If it happened slower and I would have thought that he was taking time to perfect lies.

1. I think fake vig shots are lamezors

That's OK, it was ZD that did it, not you.

2. Fake vig shots are pretty common and not alignment indicative of the faker.

That's ok, at least for me, I was already reading ZD as town anyway.

3. Fake vig shots are pretty common and not alignment indicative on the target.

4. Fake vig shots [provide the following] information - ie. none.

Those are broad assumptions and are NOT true.

Cripes, in ALL the REAL hammers you have seen - in what % of those hammers [excluding end game] did the scum just give up the ghost and go "awe shucks - you caught me. Good job!"

In fact I just read a game recently where the scum went all "Go scum!" but that's not the point. The point is DID THIS FAKE VIG SHOT WORK. Specifically this case, not across the board generalizations and YOU are trying with everything you have to discredit this and I totally expect scum to do the same thing.

[Mister Rogers]

Complimentary post 26 and his underlined business. Seemed self explanatory as to who 'him' was.

Not to me it wasn't. There were two people that he could of been referring to and I wanted to nail down which person it was.

111 so much no. Is he buddying? How did he just get through explaining how he has played mafia for years and now is looking up to Thad and Mastin and learning sooo much from them?

I have played Mafia

over a period

of years; not constantly. I look up to a certain group of skilled players that I have read during various games or have heard about. Yes it is kind of buddying & flattering but its also true.

155 I don't see how that

needs

priority response. I find it completely obvious, but then again I cant say its inherently scumzors. Just rings like it could be an attempt to poke in an attempt to pretend scumhunt.

Pardon me but that is an outstanding query that has not been answered and yes it does NEED to be.

Wha~? Why did you vote Gant but question mastin for similar sentiment? ESP since Mastin did not explain until 20 posts later.

Its not DG (the player) that matters as much (in this inquiry) and pardon me once again but this is an outstanding query that has not been answered.

249 You know who MR forgot in his readlist? DG.

Nuh-Uh

Four out of five scumreads are lurky/noncontent players.

Yes but there reasons for each of them. Address MY content on them or stop generalizing negatively on my reads. kthxbai.

[Mister Rogers]

Ok, actually almost all of my scum reads are lurking. I guess we have a problem with the game state. Aptil & BJC are prod dodging and I het this. Luca is active lurking and I can't figure out if he is being replaced or not. Mastin has a very unfortunate V/LA and I feel sorry for them.

And sorry PK, I beat you to it.

[Mister Rogers]

Dang Talah calm down my head is on fire reading your :goodposting:

What did you like about Talah's posting?

I go into it in my analysis quite heavily. Let me go get it for you.

[Mister Rogers]

Gosh I am coming off as rude in that post PK. I am sorry. I need to tone it down sometimes.

[Mister Rogers]

@AP: So you disagree that Yates has been tunneling?

[Mister Rogers]

@Yates: You are using generalizations to say, "naww, this can't be". We're playing an actual game where actual events have taken place.

Its a PRIMARY GOAL for scum to discredit this.

Your statistical approach reeks.

[Mister Rogers]

And you DID use daytalk to try and knock it down.

[Mister Rogers]

@Angy: Ya nice rage :rolleyes: Was Mollie scum btw? She had the rage. lol.

[Mister Rogers]

OK. Breakdown time.

Right about the time I started questioning Thad about his views on ZD-Chem (soon before that) I had decided that the issue was an asset to us and that scum would try and knock it down. This is why I started questioning Thad about it in such a focused way.

It also occurred to me that daytalk would be the only way in which ZD-Chem interactions could actually be discredited and so I made a post about daytalk to indicate I was aware of it and waited.

Lo and behold, Yates comes out and attempts to knock ZD-Chem down and then even with daytalk.

What I also didn't like was the general statistical approach to do it; neither him or AP actually address the posts involved and they both quote statistics.

The scum motivation involved here would be to remove a strong universal townie from our townpile.

I don't know how well this worked out in reality but in theory it was a way to identify scum in this thread.

I am kind of worn out trying to work this angle and so I thought I would just air it out; I just can't tell anymore if I even have a valid point.

Call it FAIL, call it Yates catching me in BS, it might even be scum wearing me out but I get the feeling its just not working because objectively I don't know that its possible to reliably determine a scum alignment from someone opposing a town view on the interactions.

I believe that Chem is town. He will be in my townpile.

A major portion of my issue with Yates was on this point and his defense on Pere was more than sufficient.

Unvote

Thinking of going right to Talah but I would like for him to start a new day fresh first.

I need to step back and look at everything again.

[Mister Rogers]

Consequently, do you think Admiral's reaction to this is town? Somebody (Yates?) mentioned his initial response looked sarcastic but apparently it was serious. Either way, it felt fake to me.

My judgement on this is clouded. The only thing I noticed was that he started out 100% strong on it but then came out saying it was all gut. This is contradictory as DV has pointed out. I held back on posting about it because I was attempting to scum hunt the issue.

If you ISO him you can see the two posts.

Gosh I feel like such a schlub saying that it sounds like someone trying to grab town cred but thinking better of it.

[Mister Rogers]

If some sort of activity divsion is going to be argued by anyone, then here's an exercise. Assume 5 scum.

Bottom 50%

DeasVail

-- I contend that as Yates, DV has the content and is posting. Town. Well thought out & transparent reads. Meh. So many lurkers Aptil is scummy and I'm feeling his pain on hesitating with Thad...

bjc

-- prod dodging lurker scum that got off to a good start. Null-scum.

SnowStorm

-- Well thought out reads; reservations on limited scope & lack of posting. With PK on this, not a good D1 lynch but needs to man up & post full scope or there is going to be trouble. Leaning town with above stated reservations.

Yates

-- Give the man some room he's working here. Null awaiting results.

RachMarie

-- scum IOA, bad vote Pere and dangit if she isn't lurking up a storm. Willing to hold the townread questioning as posturing.

mastin2

-- scum very bad entry reads, bad vote switch backpedal. So sad r/l tho.

projectmatt

-- Town off to a good start but not voting not as good as Snow but benefit of the doubt as with Snow.

aptil

-- scummy prod dodging no voting finger pointing scum

Luca Blight

-- scummy active lurking fencesitting posturing bandwagoning naked voting scum

Nero Cain

-- meh who knows triple lurking (V/LA?) null??

Divide into town/scum/null. Why?

Posting

Mister Rogers

-- Someone give this man a hand up not a hand out, he's confused.

Zdenek

-- rational, scum hunting as with Talah, need to know reads.

talah

-- mostly commentary, mostly commentary on self, focusing on townreads, mentions multiball alot, advised me to vote a lurker, not adding up to town

PeregrineV

-- astonishingly good entrance vote, promises good read content, doesn't belong in the "active posting category" needs to deliver null to town for that entrance and depth of promise -- wait a minute he is still pushing BJC WTH!? Dewd get real? Need to see real or willing to wagon.

AngryPidgeon

-- clarity of catchup (yummy with ketchup?), seems helpful, seems dangerous if scum, prob town, watching reads and actions carefully

BipolarChemist

-- genuine sounding posting, genuine looking reaction to a vig that he appeared to believe, lurking the living crap out of this game just as gleefully, far better targets but unlike Thad I truly am an unwavering sucker for THIS fake dayvig.

ThAdmiral

-- Found it safe to vote for BJC with frustration? Probably genuine because of WK accusation of ZD? Cog-dis over ZD-Chem starting off certain but then being certain its all gut; is this an experienced player re-thinking how people will be viewing him? Don't think he has been posting much? No great scum hunting effort. Something is wrong with this picture somehow. null-scum.

pisskop

-- transparent catchup (not yummy with ketchup ). Def willing to follow along eclipses Doc bad start. Town.

4nxi3ty

-- very low contribution levels. Caught Luca active lurking. Wishy washy with voting. Left off voting DG (popular on, not popular off?) not sure if genuine could be low profile scum. Too cautious. prob scum.

Damon_Gant

-- bad start. rusty. the benefit of the doubt train is hitting its final stop. Needs to post alot. Now. null scum.

All of these players have been available and responding. If you have a scumread on them, give the post that states your case for why they are scum.

Go!

Dang anything to clear my head right now.

Let me stare at this post for awhile and cast a vote.

[Mister Rogers]

Can you expound a bit for me why Damon is nullscum.

He reads like a player that has a naturally scummy posting style. The problem I have with that is his join date in 2010 but he said that he is rusty which is why I decided to go the benefit of the doubt route; off to a bad start as a rusty player.

He has shown some genuine glimmers that read as sincerity; one example is him actually providing content regarding Mastin's meta after he promised to do so as part of his defense which I think is post #202; I found that post quite sincere and an indicator that I did not want to lynch him.

He is the type of player that its easy to think is scum because on the surface he sounds scummy. That is a weak spot of mine that makes him hard to actually read. The scum part of the null rating is due to his recent lack of posting (because I think the key to reading him will lie in him continuing to post) but he appears to be rectifying that. I need to look at those recent posts.

[Mister Rogers]

But no, I'm not going to have 5-6 scumreads in a 20 player game.

I might have a couple of scum leans at this stage

Here is a player that is trying to portray a laid back approach, a couple of scum leans because, you know, its early and everything.

but I'm mainly looking at townposting and for D1 who's the most likely scum to push / advocate / agree with a few days out from deadline.

More probity, using townreads to PoE, focusing over a week ahead.

Overnight to this:

Can we just wagon someone please? At this stage I don't even care if it's me.

@Mister - don't dream it, do it.

@Everyone else who's not voting or thinks #unvote is a cool thing the kids are doing these days - take a fricking position will you? Use your vote for *something*

I've never been so lost in a game of Mafia.

Something is askew with the self-portrayal here. I was looking for solutions from Talah today. Instead I get a massive dose of AtE & a lump of cog-dis.

[Mister Rogers]

Vote Talah

[Mister Rogers]

Spoiler: Mister Rogers activity response

If some sort of activity divsion is going to be argued by anyone, then here's an exercise. Assume 5 scum.

Bottom 50%

DeasVail

-- I contend that as Yates, DV has the content and is posting. Town. Well thought out & transparent reads. Meh. So many lurkers Aptil is scummy and I'm feeling his pain on hesitating with Thad...

bjc

-- prod dodging lurker scum that got off to a good start. Null-scum.

SnowStorm

-- Well thought out reads; reservations on limited scope & lack of posting. With PK on this, not a good D1 lynch but needs to man up & post full scope or there is going to be trouble. Leaning town with above stated reservations.

Yates

-- Give the man some room he's working here. Null awaiting results.

RachMarie

-- scum IOA, bad vote Pere and dangit if she isn't lurking up a storm. Willing to hold the townread questioning as posturing.

mastin2

-- scum very bad entry reads, bad vote switch backpedal. So sad r/l tho.

projectmatt

-- Town off to a good start but not voting not as good as Snow but benefit of the doubt as with Snow.

aptil

-- scummy prod dodging no voting finger pointing scum

Luca Blight

-- scummy active lurking fencesitting posturing bandwagoning naked voting scum

Nero Cain

-- meh who knows triple lurking (V/LA?) null??

Divide into town/scum/null. Why?

Posting

Mister Rogers

-- Someone give this man a hand up not a hand out, he's confused.

Zdenek

-- rational, scum hunting as with Talah, need to know reads.

talah

-- mostly commentary, mostly commentary on self, focusing on townreads, mentions multiball alot, advised me to vote a lurker, not adding up to town

PeregrineV

-- astonishingly good entrance vote, promises good read content, doesn't belong in the "active posting category" needs to deliver null to town for that entrance and depth of promise -- wait a minute he is still pushing BJC WTH!? Dewd get real? Need to see real or willing to wagon.

AngryPidgeon

-- clarity of catchup (yummy with ketchup?), seems helpful, seems dangerous if scum, prob town, watching reads and actions carefully

BipolarChemist

-- genuine sounding posting, genuine looking reaction to a vig that he appeared to believe, lurking the living crap out of this game just as gleefully, far better targets but unlike Thad I truly am an unwavering sucker for THIS fake dayvig.

ThAdmiral

-- Found it safe to vote for BJC with frustration? Probably genuine because of WK accusation of ZD? Cog-dis over ZD-Chem starting off certain but then being certain its all gut; is this an experienced player re-thinking how people will be viewing him? Don't think he has been posting much? No great scum hunting effort. Something is wrong with this picture somehow. null-scum.

pisskop

-- transparent catchup (not yummy with ketchup ). Def willing to follow along eclipses Doc bad start. Town.

4nxi3ty

-- very low contribution levels. Caught Luca active lurking. Wishy washy with voting. Left off voting DG (popular on, not popular off?) not sure if genuine could be low profile scum. Too cautious. prob scum.

Damon_Gant

-- bad start. rusty. the benefit of the doubt train is hitting its final stop. Needs to post alot. Now. null scum.

All of these players have been available and responding. If you have a scumread on them, give the post that states your case for why they are scum.

Go!

Dang anything to clear my head right now.

Let me stare at this post for awhile and cast a vote.

they are sorted in highest posting to lowest posting within in each group.

I'll respond later, but you think talah, 4nxiety and ThAd are the active posting scum, and Luca, aptil, Mastin, are the low posting scum?

Meh Thad activity is kinda low its kind of hard to draw the line. Rach is also low posting scum. And, ha ha, yes BJC is scum but don't think that justifies anything.

[Mister Rogers]

Coasting on a Luca vote is just bad.

@DG: You joined in 2010. Why don't you know this?

Same thing goes for Anx.

[Mister Rogers]

I'm totally serious too. We are actually debating over voting someone that has 1 post and 1 naked BW vote.

I think the PK issue needs addressing though.

[Mister Rogers]

I think the PK issue needs addressing though.

Pisskop? Did I miss something specific?
Do you think aptil votes are just as useless/bad as luca votes? I mean I guess aptil has slightly more content, but I see a slew of people voting both of these players who, imo, are lurking and nullville.

Ya I mean holy crap unless we decide we are going to wagon these prod dodgers to lynch unless they contribute. Odds are there is scum in that lurker list (if you count ALL of the lurkers) but its really a crap shoot.

But its not like the wagon will be helpful because its on a lurker and our D2 will lack a beneficial wagon to analyze.

Aptil is not any better than Luca.

We should be able to do better than a crap shoot and I bet we have better odds in the lurker voters.

[Mister Rogers]

Vote Talah

I could still go this way.

Who are your top scum reads?

[Mister Rogers]

I think the PK issue needs addressing though.

che cosa?

The divergence between your description of Luca & DG's. He pretty much called you out as being, well, a fibber.

[Mister Rogers]

Too tired must sleep.

The one thing that is burning in my mind is:

Pere should not be allowed to sideline, posting helpful read guidelines & screaming about BJC. This without actual scum hunting is scummy.

PEDIT: @ZD -- I want to puke.

[Mister Rogers]

So you want to vote someone that isn't scum?

[Mister Rogers]

Well time to claim lyncher then? But nobody will believe you. So quit it. You also realize that there is a sitewide rule to play to your wincon and you're close to breaking it right?

[Mister Rogers]

I meant Jester and you have seen all the ban's that have been happening lately right?

[Mister Rogers]

I actually am a fan of "lynch all lurkers", its just not the best option. Usually they get replaced.

Since Anx , DG & you are scummy, I am not liking Luca. Aptil at least showed some signs of townie intention. Nobody will vote Rach.

BJC is the worst of them and we gain good info from their wagon. At least the others sound repentant.

Unvote, Vote BJC

[Mister Rogers]

I just noted you you did that. The reason I am voting for you is a lackluster approach to scum suspects & a bizarre cog-dis in your approach to the game. It just appears like you are trying to skate through by simply commenting combined with a "lynch me or lump it" attitude.

With that being said, I don't like how ZD is being so mysterious with his reads either. Pere's ISO reads: BJC is the entire scum team, you all are town and everyone else bleh.

I got a couple of town reads lurking like Snow & Matt too.

Luca fencesat BJC, he didn't call him out. He town postured the issue which is like barfable but at least he's not saying "I'm lurking deliberately".

I mean they actually could be scum buddies which is why he was so wishy washy about it.

But regardless of alignment lynching BJC goes the farthest towards repairing the game state.

PEDIT: See, a lurker has returned and is contributing.

[Mister Rogers]

Errm. I mean Rach is starting now again to contribute anyway...

[Mister Rogers]

I did notice that his sudden switch on Talah looked poorly done, based on his own expressed logic.

[Mister Rogers]

I also noticed how Talah appeared to "pressure me" into a lurker vote and then buddied me once I complied.

[Mister Rogers]

Errm. I mean Rach is starting now again to contribute anyway...

This post was meant to indicate how Rach has much more posting to do.

[Mister Rogers]

Rather obvious here: MOAR BJC VOTES.

[Mister Rogers]

[quote="Ketchup Covered Pigeon]-Shrug-, I prefer to vote actually scummy people and either investigate lurkers or have them replaced by someone who WILL contribute.[/quote]

And if I'm content with lurking?

C'mon, this guy? He just needs votes like nao?

[Mister Rogers]

Also @Rogers

Did you look at the game in question - newbie1462 - yetor are you content pushing from the bavkgroud without verifying for yourself? Itsnot like its hard to do so the only reason not to is scummy.

I just was clarifying an in-thread inconsistency to see your response. Since I think the actual issue surrounding Luca is like inane, no, I didn't go look. It doesn't mean I can't at any time if I feel it makes sense for me to do it.

This was your response:

Checked Luca's meta - Luca pretty much doesn't have a meta, with as far as I could see, only 1 finished game to speak of. None of Luca's posts from that one game read as scummy as the one post Luca has here. I reiterate - I'm happy with my vote.

Luca - aside from my one game with him where he was a dead tortoise until day02 (where he became very active) I have no reason to townread him. He doesn't have enough completed games to meta. So Newbie 1462.

You.

Which didn't address the point. Why didn't you respond to DG's follow-up to you about it?

[Mister Rogers]

Ya that point didn't make sense to me about how it means he's scum that doesn't want to contribute -- that's like a generic lurker label that applies to any lurker regardless of what they say.

[Mister Rogers]

Too tired must sleep.

The one thing that is burning in my mind is:

Pere should not be allowed to sideline, posting helpful read guidelines & screaming about BJC. This without actual scum hunting is scummy.

PEDIT: @ZD -- I want to puke.

Am I on the sideline? I think I've been pretty clear. And you are just as clearly agreeing with me while chastising me about it.

C'mon, He didn't start this game out lurking AND being defiant about it.

Most people have a wait and see attitude regarding your play but well that thought was literally burning in my mind.

[Mister Rogers]

BJC is the worst of them and we gain good info from their wagon. At least the others sound repentant.

Unvote, Vote BJC

Tell me some of the good info we'll get from his lynch.

The best info we will get is his alignment. The reason why its good is because he has been a very popular push.

[Mister Rogers]

I just noted you you did that. The reason I am voting for you is a lackluster approach to scum suspects & a bizarre cog-dis in your approach to the game. It just appears like you are trying to skate through by simply commenting combined with a "lynch me or lump it" attitude.

With that being said, I don't like how ZD is being so mysterious with his reads either. Pere's ISO reads: BJC is the entire scum team, you all are town and everyone else bleh.

Nah, but he is the most obvious, and it'll be informative to match townreads to his scumflip.

I got a couple of town reads lurking like Snow & Matt too.[/quote] I'd put both at null-scum.

[/quote]Luca fencesat BJC, he didn't call him out. He town postured the issue which is like barfable but at least he's not saying "I'm lurking deliberately".[/quote] I'd vote Luca too.[/quote]

Me too if it came down to it. I will also vote any of my scum reads.

[Mister Rogers]

the way I see it, it looks like he got put as an easy target pretty early in the game and the amount of people jumping on something that is absolutely not a tell at all makes me worried.

This is what I mean.

[Mister Rogers]

vap·id
ˈvapid/
adjective
1.
offering nothing that is stimulating or challenging.

I guess related to vapor. Learn something new every day.

[Mister Rogers]

So,

I'm going to stick to an early scumread

this time unless the scum himself can convince me otherwise.

LOL. I mean I just don't get this. I mean seriously, I think right now you fit a scum profile better than he does.

[Mister Rogers]

Vote: ThaD

You haven't posted in the neighborhood QT yet. What's up with that?

Vote: ThaD

You haven't posted in the neighborhood QT yet. What's up with that?

Lolz, I'll get on that

In other news I like being out of rvs within 3 live posts. While its sort of forced (what super early day 1 case stuff isn't) I still like rogers better for it.

I'm scum.

Lemme guess: "reaction testing"?

vote: bjc

There you go, now you can call me scum for "taking the bait".

I mean I kind of just stumbled onto this but its really kind of bizarre how this all went down and you both end up taking the exact same tact. Is there any explanation for this?

[Mister Rogers]

Uh yeah actually, Mr. Rodgers literally said "we gain good info from their wagon". Did you just intentionally misinterpret what I said?

Oh apparently I missed that Rogers post. I assumed Rogers was voting him for being willfully obtuse.

That is the primary reason but the info is my secondary reason.

@Matt: Look, I just find it bizarre that people, experienced people, would actually scum read him from his early posting. It has stuck out to me all game; apparently you and a few others have noticed it too.

I think he has hurt the game state terribly and removing him would help to address the bizarre push from certain people like Pere & Thad.

PEDIT: I read his posting as town too (after the "scum" claim not because of it).

[Mister Rogers]

Well that's what I thought would end up being the case. Thanks for explaining it and I guess that answers "Thad-Pere" RVS interactions.

[Mister Rogers]

@Pere: Why are you tunneling BJC when Thad has moved on?

[Mister Rogers]

Since I think the actual issue surrounding Luca is like inane, no, I didn't go look.

I think the PK issue needs addressing though.

That's not what you say here. You clearly think my read of Luca is important.

What I thought was important was your description of your previous play with Luca. DG pointed out that it didn't match up with the description and I wanted to see your answer.

Which didn't address the point. Why didn't you respond to DG's follow-up to you about it?

First it should be noted that pisskop was playing the completed game with Luca in (Luca was town, pisskop was scum), and so having been in it he has more of a feel for the game as a whole compared to me who just read through Luca's ISO.

That being said, I generally disagree with pisskop's bolded statement.

Luca would admittedly fall away from the game for days at a time, but his posting was ok if not inspiring. He contributed much more to the early game than he has here, and also did not prod dodge as he has here

.

This?

I don't see any discrepancy between my attitude about all the non-content posters and Luca

.

These don't match up.

And, and more evidence that you do think its important.

And, no.

[Mister Rogers]

Uh yeah actually, Mr. Rodgers literally said "we gain good info from their wagon". Did you just intentionally misinterpret what I said?

Oh apparently I missed that Rogers post. I assumed Rogers was voting him for being willfully obtuse.

That is the primary reason but the info is my secondary reason.

@Matt: Look, I just find it bizarre that people, experienced people, would actually scum read him from his early posting. It has stuck out to me all game; apparently you and a few others have noticed it too.

I think he has hurt the game state terribly and removing him would help to address the bizarre push from certain people like Pere & Thad.

PEDIT: I read his posting as town too (after the "scum" claim not because of it).

I see where you're coming from and agree with your logic entirely up to the point where you think it's a good idea to lynch BJC. The pushes on him have been odd, and that's even more reason not to lynch him. He hasn't hurt the game state much at all, and I think liability lynching is bad.

The truth is, I am a closet lynch all lurkers fanatic but I have repressed that impulse due to site meta. Even though recovery is a daily ongoing process, I do completely agree with you but only to the point to where he thumbed his nose at us.

[Mister Rogers]

@Pere: Your organizational skills. Are we going to pressure a lurker or are we going to lynch an active poster. At this point its becoming concerning because deadline is approaching and I don't think we can afford to waffle about. Scum I think would love a divided town to waste more time towards the deadline.

[Mister Rogers]

Just going to put this out there

vote: Mister Rogers

Bad. Bad sweater-man.

This is bizarre. Why are you so touchy about Luca?

[Mister Rogers]

Why are you so touchy about Luca?

What does this have to do with Luca? :/ What a terrible question.
I don't like how you select what to respond to, how you analyze posts, or how you push from the background. Also your reads aren't grounded in the game.

How do you nullscum read a player with loads of content for 'having a naturally scummy style.' Lets see meat please.

What's so difficult about that? He's an easy lynch. An easy D1 lynch. Hence the null. I read his tone better which is consistently sincere but he needs watching because he is hard for me to read; I will read scum from him very easily and I would prefer not to lynch town D1 which happens so often with easy lynches.

You still haven't answered DG's question.

[Mister Rogers]

What bigger fish like Aptil??

Why is your push here so fake??????????????

[Mister Rogers]

Uh yeah actually, Mr. Rodgers literally said "we gain good info from their wagon". Did you just intentionally misinterpret what I said?

Oh apparently I missed that Rogers post. I assumed Rogers was voting him for being willfully obtuse.

That is the primary reason but the info is my secondary reason.

@Matt: Look, I just find it bizarre that people, experienced people, would actually scum read him from his early posting. It has stuck out to me all game; apparently you and a few others have noticed it too.

I think he has hurt the game state terribly and removing him would help to address the bizarre push from certain people like Pere & Thad.

PEDIT: I read his posting as town too (after the "scum" claim not because of it).

I see where you're coming from and agree with your logic entirely up to the point where you think it's a good idea to lynch BJC. The pushes on him have been odd, and that's even more reason not to lynch him. He hasn't hurt the game state much at all, and I think liability lynching is bad.

The truth is, I am a closet lynch all lurkers fanatic but I have repressed that impulse due to site meta. Even though recovery is a daily ongoing process, I do completely agree with you but only to the point to where he thumbed his nose at us.

I think the "lynch all lurkers" strategy is very poor. More useful is the whole "lynch the mafia" type strategy I would strongly urge you to seriously reconsider where your vote is and the purpose it currently serves. I understand being annoyed by BJC's play but I think we both know there's a lot more bigger fish to fry.

What bigger fish like Aptil??

Why is your push here so fake??????????????

[Mister Rogers]

Wha~? Why did you vote Gant but question mastin for similar sentiment?

Its not DG (the player) that matters as much (in this inquiry) and pardon me once again but this is an outstanding query that has not been answered.

Can you elaborate on this?

mastin2 -- scum very bad entry reads, bad vote switch backpedal. So sad r/l tho.

And this, please.

478 Can you use his ingame content to describe this nullscum read? Like post analysis.

I need to look at those recent posts.

Any luck with this?

Lets see meat please.

Will you start reading players based on their content in game? This is part of why Im negatively reading you.

So you have chosen not to listen to me. I told you that its not DG the player that matters it was the vote switch. Mastin has not really returned to the game and actually it kind of sucks because that horse has left the barn so long ago and the game is entirely different.

You answer DG's question.

[Mister Rogers]

Just to make it clear: Matt has just pushed a "lynch all lurkers s bad" on me while he is voting Aptil. I can only read this as a fake push to appear townie and possibly more specifically as a defense of BJC.

[Mister Rogers]

I already did. Are you reading the thread?? Go back like 2-3 posts.

[Mister Rogers]

I realize that this game needs me, but right now, my focus is largely elsewhere. I'll do what I can to get caught up, though.

Hope everything is well. It will do this game quite a bit of good to have another active player.

With this strange Matt push I am up for MOAR BJC VOTES.

[Mister Rogers]

@Pere: Your organizational skills. Are we going to pressure a lurker or are we going to lynch an active poster. At this point its becoming concerning because deadline is approaching and I don't think we can afford to waffle about. Scum I think would love a divided town to waste more time towards the deadline.

Activescum- posters are easier to catch as scum later. Pless-mod is on top of prods, etc., so lurkers will most likely be replaced.

Scummy lurkers should be hung

/vigged. Town lurkers should nut it up and get in here anyway.

I would rather lynch bjc, but would consider Luca, maybe Aptil, maybe Snow. Probably not 4nxiety or DV or BiPolar out of the low posters.

Out of the high posters, cases require more validity. Only ones I'd really consider at this point are talah and pisskop.

Ok well this is some meat and potatoes, thank you.

At first I thought these was a contradiction but not because you consider BJC a scummy lurker?

[Mister Rogers]

I understand being annoyed by BJC's play but I think we both know there's a lot more bigger fish to fry.

With all this uncertainty I have about those who are active among us, I feel like there are quite possibly 3 or more scum hiding among the lurkers. That is where I currently see the game being played. To those who do not like this, I want to be convinced. So convince me that someone else is scum.

Well an update at least. With this fake town posturing statement that you've quoted, Matt has become a new scum suspect. He is voting the very prolific and thread dominating Aptil.

I think you are right to call him out on it but you also get me thinking...

[Mister Rogers]

@Pere: Your organizational skills. Are we going to pressure a lurker or are we going to lynch an active poster. At this point its becoming concerning because deadline is approaching and I don't think we can afford to waffle about. Scum I think would love a divided town to waste more time towards the deadline.

Activescum- posters are easier to catch as scum later. Pless-mod is on top of prods, etc., so lurkers will most likely be replaced.

Scummy lurkers should be hung

/vigged. Town lurkers should nut it up and get in here anyway.

I would rather lynch bjc, but would consider Luca, maybe Aptil, maybe Snow. Probably not 4nxiety or DV or BiPolar out of the low posters.

Out of the high posters, cases require more validity. Only ones I'd really consider at this point are talah and pisskop.

Ok well this is some meat and potatoes, thank you.

At first I thought these was a contradiction but not because you consider BJC a scummy lurker?

Also, my take on it. On the low posters def not Snow but ya on Anx, Luca & Aptil. On the high posters yes on Talah but no on PK (he is not yummy with ketchup tho).

No on PK because he appears to be using critical analysis on his reads and pushes. Even though he is obviously skilled & can do so as scum, barring a slip I see no reason to lynch him D1.

[Mister Rogers]

@Matt: Yes you are wrong on your assertion as to why I am voting BJC. It is because he is deliberately lurking (as opposed to Aptil who is simply lurking) and because of the bizarre attention that he got for his simple "I'm scum" post.

I think moar people should be voting him.

[Mister Rogers]

202 is a terrible Luca vote and a Doc gutfeel dressed in logic. Why would he need to dress it up? also, for a player who says this:

Mastin's play continues to be very bleh. Giving garbage reads, and now trying to spoonfeed us what his meta is. That's not going to work - when I have time tonight I'll be looking at Mastin's meta for myself. It does need doing, because of the unorthodox playstyle - but I'm not going to be told by the player himself what his meta is, and essentially that his meta this game corresponds with his meta for town.

And then doesn't meta Luca. My experience with Luca is as a lurker/very unhelpful player until later and additionally there are better fish in the sea to eyeball.

Perhaps you believe there are "better fish in the sea to eyeball" - and

trust me, I'm eyeballing everyone

I don't see any evidence in your ISO that this is the case. My rust trust has run out.

[Mister Rogers]

He is defiant and yes honest about that defiance and it actually bothers me personally.

Well on 2, I have the opportunity to merge the two because your assertion that it makes him town is WIFOM and unfortunately the initial town read that I had on him was based on an intelligent & witty player that was going to drop the bomb on this thread with with his effort. Because he failed to do that, I can see that my town read was in fact, wrong.

I would use an ad hom pejorative (having the initials JA) at this point but site meta has changed and won't allow me to do it.

I think we have time and the momentum to make this happen.

[Mister Rogers]

I had a busy week and I'm tired, but I just want to let you know that I'm here now. I just need to re-read everything and then I'll be fully caught up. I'll try to post something today, but if I don't, don't worry, I'll do it tomorrow and over the weekend.

Welcome back! We need you.

[Mister Rogers]

In response to pisskop

List of people I consider to be lurkers:
SnowStorm, aptil, Rach, bjc,

Yates

,

Nero

, DV and Luca.

I would have said matt before his spurt of activity today. Mastin I wouldn't call a lurker as she is on VLA.

Very interesting. I was just thinking about the bolded.

The italicized is heavily disappointing me.

[Mister Rogers]

^^Rach, Yates, Nero, Luca.^^

Id be for exploring them.

The only one from that list I could go for is Luca. I would go for Rach but everyone has her as town so don't think that would happen...

[Mister Rogers]

Yates : 7 posts : Has only 7 posts but all of them have content . Reads town to me .

The irony.

Holy living crap. How did I miss this post MY GOSH. Aptil read update incoming.

[Mister Rogers]

Ok on Aptil it can only be seen as the first post in a series of posts, not all players have been looked at. I do see sincerity but will withhold judgement on content until the rest of the posts materialize.

Because of this post, he drops the bottom of any "lurker compromise" tier for me.

[Mister Rogers]

Wha~? Why did you vote Gant but question mastin for similar sentiment?

Its not DG (the player) that matters as much (in this inquiry) and pardon me once again but this is an outstanding query that has not been answered.
Can you elaborate on this?

Sorry for missing this post. Meh. The truth is, the horse is dead. Mastin needs to catch up to a new game. My concern was not with his vote for DG but for his rapid backpedal vote in the face of Talah suspicion that happened to be on DG.

mastin2 -- scum very bad entry reads, bad vote switch backpedal. So sad r/l tho.

And this, please.

Dang I guess you were right. I forgot about This Angle. I do need to see the answer with specifics but even more important now is to see Mastin's catchup but again, the emphasis was on Mastin's read and the specifics of that read more than anything directly related to DG.

478 Can you use his ingame content to describe this nullscum read? Like post analysis.

Any chance we can cut some kind of deal on this? I mean, in general his early posts sound like so much posturing and there a good number of logical inconsistencies; I mean truthfully its a real pain to pull those apart but I mean ya I could do it but it would be kind of stupid because its more of a posting style issue where he just pings scum easy. However, I now have a different angle which is past overdue, below. Your push helped me with that.

I need to look at those recent posts.

Any luck with this?

Yes. His ISO shows he has not delivered on his promise of properly following along. Listing lurkers for you in nice but being rusty cannot account for his claim of "eyeballing everyone" and yet coming up empty on active game reads. Your push allowed me to see that he had slipped through that grey area that I allowed him, into the black of town posturing & excuse making. Being rusty can no longer explain his ISO to me but trying to slip under the radar with as little trackable information offered as possible, can.

He can join Anx in the scum pile.

[Mister Rogers]

Re: Thad: "not having strong stances is scummy": very one sided approach. Scum project confidence, and there are times when town are unsure of themselves. One of the things I look for in scum is being confident when there is no reason to be - which is why Mister Roger's aggressive right out of the gate bugged me, yet I think that comes from his personality and eagerness at playing mafia again and his post count certainly fits in with that.

Re: "We can't lynch lurkers, poor info": silly logic, I used to think this too >.< As long as discussion is happening and things are changing, there will be info gained. First priority should be lynching scum wether active or lurking. And there is some merit to figuring out lurkers early on.
(even if you disagree, don't set the tone by bringing up 'lurkers make poor lynches' at least let scum think they'll get in trouble for lurking)

Talah/Mastin Meta Dispute: instinct: when it comes to meta, ime, there's usually at least one scum involved. Either from the two fighting over meta or the person that steps in and defends/attacks one of the others - haven't parsed through this, thought it should be noted anyway.

Had Zdenek and BipolarChemist as town before the fakevig. I get that neither should be autocleared, but I have seen nothing scummy from them since.


I think

aptil

(need to think on aptil latest posts) and luca both make good lurker lynches.
Rach feels relaxed for a lurker.
post 492 and 499 from Nero look like an attempt to get a reaction, which is decent.
bjc has antagonistic playstyle regardless of alignment, I think he will be easier to figure out later on, not interested in that lynch - even policy, there should be times when he cooperates.

This is a high quality post, excellent game theory & I like the tone. The problem is it is simply commentary with heavy emphasis on lurkers. Talk about a reactionary game, man you are laying low -- way to low for any sort of town read at this stage of the game.

[Mister Rogers]

Meh. Time for an updated scum list.

@PK: Nothing like a good attack to get my blood flowing I guess. lol.

Scum

: Anx, Talah, Luca, DG, Rach

Greys

: BJC, Thad, Aptil, Mastin, Matt

The Greys are here! They are likely to invade my scum pool with not very much prompting! If I have to lynch a Grey I will!!

[Mister Rogers]

I am certain there is/are player(s) in my town pile that are fooling me atm. I think the key is finding the true scum that is not fooling me from my list.

Anx is nice because it would help me with my Thad read.

DG is not too bad and would at least help me with my Mastin read but there a number of other player interactions as well.

Rach will be impossible to lynch but has only cut scum as far as I can tell.

BUT WAIT!!! I just checked her ISO and she seems so so so very active on site elsewhere! She's right there congratulating scum on a good game etc etc.

At work gotta check this out.

[Mister Rogers]

Meh. False alarm there with Rach.

Looking for a good lurker lynch? Luca is the very very best. I don't think those that are currently voting Luca should be given very much credit at all for it because tunneling a lurker is no place for a townie to be.

I think its far better to target lurker voters. Hence my short list (minus Rach who is truly sick after a trip):

Talah, Anx, DG

We need to burn one of these three.

[Mister Rogers]

I have scum read each of these 3 independently of their voting for Luca and it just so happens it is a pretty major coincidence that they all synched up together on the same target.

Talah was the last to do so and I think the most criminal and especially because he is a highly skilled player.

Anx was the second to do so and seeing as how he has remained there and refused to budge or scum hunt makes him look pretty bad.

DG had his chance but his promise of "eyeballing everyone" was a bunch of crap and goes beyond just being "rusty".

Unvote, Vote Talah

[Mister Rogers]

There is somebody in my Grey pile that is so so so very close to turning red....

Can you guess who it is?

[Mister Rogers]

lol.

[Mister Rogers]

Interesting you would pop up there with that statement.

[Mister Rogers]

How badly do you want to be right?

[Mister Rogers]

@Rach: You are off the hook in my mind. I see genuine illness.

[Mister Rogers]

Oh and gosh, hope you feel better soon and like remains non-serious.

[Mister Rogers]

Wow so dinner is over right?

[Mister Rogers]

Wow that sounds yummy.

[Mister Rogers]

Wow. Well that's quite a forceful start.

[Mister Rogers]

@Matt: Well I was hoping you could help me because, he is hard to read.

[Mister Rogers]

Welcome to the game. Glad you are finally here.

[Mister Rogers]

@nero: Excellent Luca read btw. Could you please comment on Mastin's Luca read? Thanks.

[Mister Rogers]

@Nero: Are you from the UK?

[Mister Rogers]

K, thanks.

What about Matt, do you know?

[Mister Rogers]

Oh. Ya good point thanks.

[Mister Rogers]

Ok, for all you people in TV land, the winner of the Grey promotion award is...

Projectmatt

!

Let's give him a round of applause for multiple townreads, exclusive focusing on lurkers, and asking others for scum case material on two separate occasions while having expressed none of his own! In general, posting like scum that is lost in the thread!

He obviously has enough game experience to generate scum reads on his own but has made excuses on at least two occasions, much like Taleh (except he didn't use multiball as the reason).

The final straw was his statement about making a big post after dinner which he failed to do.

I find his Yates vote to be quite terrible (it appears to be baseless; notice the difference with PK's vote which occurs at the same time) and overall there is no scum hunting with only lip-service paid to it.

I also see an amazingly unbelievable ott defense of BJC -- I mean it might just be a noise issue to harp on and maybe its just coincidental regarding the Yates vote but -- he has become the biggest BJC defender in this thread.

The major event that brought his ISO to my attention was of course his fake push over voting a lurker (in this case it was BJC) which simply read as town posturing (it may end up being more than that). On this note, he had expressed being hot and heavy on Aptil and also said he would provide case material there; haven't seen any of that and I suspect he took a look at that ISO and Aptil's most recent post and declined to even try.

So my updated short list:

Taleh, Matt, DG, Anx

[Mister Rogers]

@nero: Excellent Luca read btw. Could you please comment on Mastin's Luca read? Thanks.

die you scum fuck.

Pardon me but I'm serious. I am counting on experienced help here but if you are scum you WILL put down your read on Mastin for the record.

[Mister Rogers]

If you are town you will assist me by doing so.

[Mister Rogers]

Ok, maybe you have misunderstood and you think I am being sarcastic. Take a look at my long scum list LUCA is on there so I mean it when I say excellent read. I need to know your honest opinion of MASTIN'S read of Luca that he expressed in I believe his first post. Thanks.

[Mister Rogers]

Ok so you have differing reads than Mastin -- you didn't find his read bizarre? It doesn't stick out to you as bad?

Furthermore ya, if I am wrong about Mastin I DO need guidance on that issue. Same thing rgardless of your alignment.